Llandudno railway station

[Ian]

Going back to the train vs coach driver discussion, it's also important to remember that train drivers have the safety of far more people as their responsibility

Indeed, and that's the argument used by ASLEF to demand parity with commercial pilots. But it's not that simple.

I'd have said it's far more to do with the fact that the environment can be controlled far more easily on the rail network

.

Absolutely.  That's what makes driving trains almost a binary process, compared with dirving a coach.

Having said that, how would the driver-less train cope with yobs throwing something on the line?

The same way automated landing systems cope with foggy airports. And don't forget that coach drivers have to contend with yobs throwing bricks and rocks onto roads below - there was a case near Bangor recently.

Interestingly, I had no strong feelings on this issue one way or another, until the comment about learning to drive a bus in a couple of weeks. But when you look into it it's pretty clear that automating trains completely is not only possible ("the environment can be controlled far more easily"), but it's probably desirable. Current AI systems can cope with train automation.  They can cope with limited flying automation but they can't - yet - cope with roads and other traffic, although I have no doubt that will come. I suspect only two things stand in the way of completely automated trains: the union and public reluctance to trust computers.

[SDQ]

The comment about learning to drive a bus in the time I stated was fact. If you want to be pedantic and take the car licence into account then many driving schools have advertised getting a licence in a week so that would make the process 3 weeks maximum. Not months.

[Yorkie]

Many people who passed there test in 2 weeks, 2 months, or however long, still can't drive safely or properly and we see them on the road every day! 
 ^*^0

[born2run]

Just to throw it in there. What about driving boats? You don't even need a licence for that, in my old job of driving a boat tour i came across some really reckless idiots on the water

[snowcap]

did you drive one of those yellow ones that go under water now and then

[born2run]

Nope those things are only in Liverpool I believe! I drove two of the tourist boats in Conwy the summer before I started uni, they are still going now and are actually pretty good money for what you get. I've been on the one on the thames and it's not as good and a lot more expensive

[Fester]

The Llandudno Bay boat rides are great vale for money,  but the Conwy river cruise is a real rip off.

[Ian]

The comment about learning to drive a bus in the time I stated was fact.

Okay. So a bloke who's never driven a vehicle in his life walks into the Bus depot and can qualify in a couple of weeks?  Really?

If you want to be pedantic and take the car licence into account then many driving schools have advertised getting a licence in a week so that would make the process 3 weeks maximum. Not months.

I was able to find one in Manchester that offered 'intensive, 2 week courses' with drivers being taught behind the wheel for eight hours a day but whether they'd then be able to go straight into a PSV training centre and take their 'two week' bus driving course I don't know. I certainly wouldn't want to be in a bus with anyone who had so little experience of UK roads and traffic conditions.

I asked on another forum about which drivers - bus or train - are the better skilled and trained. From a chap who's been both here's his response:

"That's n easy one, Ian... Having had several years of experience on both i'd say that the better training has to be the Bus/Coach driver, simply because the bus routes are so clogged with other traffic often on directly opposing courses.  A Train's rail system takes away that steering responsibility plus the driver is rarely aware of just how many passengers he / she is carrying.....

I've travelled on two driver less systems,  Washington DC Metro and the Berlin U Bahn . Both were excellent in their  own way, The US System had carpets on the floor and no graffiti or chewing gum decorated platforms, the German U Bahn  was typically efficient but rather soulless. "

In fairness, a professional engineer posted this:

"I wouldn't have thought there was much to discuss. Train drivers by a long chalk. On the big boy's railway it can take 18 months and you only have to look at the railway rule book to appreciate how much information they have to assimulate.

It would be possible to run trains the length of the country without train drivers or signallers; providing everything ran smoothly. The time when both groups of people earn their money is when things go wrong. "

[Ian]

Just to throw it in there. What about driving boats? You don't even need a licence for that, in my old job of driving a boat tour i came across some really reckless idiots on the water

I thought you did need some form of licensing to carry paying passengers? But I know what you mean. Anyone with enough cash can buy a boat and set out to sea with no training whatsoever.

[born2run]

Just to throw it in there. What about driving boats? You don't even need a licence for that, in my old job of driving a boat tour i came across some really reckless idiots on the water

I thought you did need some form of licensing to carry paying passengers? But I know what you mean. Anyone with enough cash can buy a boat and set out to sea with no training whatsoever.

Not that I know off, I certainley never had any licence and carried lots of passengers 

[DaveR]

The same way automated landing systems cope with foggy airports.

I can't see how that is a correct analogy. How can a driver-less train detect, say, a sleeper placed on the line half a mile away and be able to slow down in time to avoid hitting it? Some trains do travel considerably faster than coaches, after all. 

[DaveR]

Just to throw it in there. What about driving boats? You don't even need a licence for that, in my old job of driving a boat tour i came across some really reckless idiots on the water

I thought you did need some form of licensing to carry paying passengers? But I know what you mean. Anyone with enough cash can buy a boat and set out to sea with no training whatsoever.

Not that I know off, I certainley never had any licence and carried lots of passengers 

How much training did you receive?

[mull]

As far as I am aware the MCA insist you need a Boatmasters licence .
Courses run by RYA.

[born2run]

Just to throw it in there. What about driving boats? You don't even need a licence for that, in my old job of driving a boat tour i came across some really reckless idiots on the water

I thought you did need some form of licensing to carry paying passengers? But I know what you mean. Anyone with enough cash can buy a boat and set out to sea with no training whatsoever.

Not that I know off, I certainley never had any licence and carried lots of passengers 

How much training did you receive?

Few times supervised so I wasn't immediatley sent out on my own or anything, to be fair though I am quite brilliant 

[Michael]

   I didn't intend to stir up such a hornets nest. So perhaps its up to me to lighten the subject, and maybe end it and go back to the railway station.  This may bring a smile o your faces. Its true,

    The driving regulations are constantly changing. What follows applied some years ago. Whether or not it still does I don't know.

   It was permissible for a non driver, no licence at all, to take his car driving test in a bus. Whilst he was learning to drive he/she had to have a qualified driver with him to instruct him.

  So, the day comes. His car driving test. The bus with the driver and the instructor arrive, the instructor gets out, the examiner gets in-- and off they go.

  At the end of the test, bad news. Sorry, you have failed. So the instructor gets back in the bus and they drive home.

  But ---- good news, YOU HAVE PASSED.  So you now have a car licence which allows you to drive a bus PROVIDED YOU HAVE NO PASSENGERS.  Your instructor is now not needed, he is a passenger, so he has to walk home.