Llandudno railway station

[SDQ]

There's nothing new about it, the maximum capacity of all 3 platforms in Llandudno is a loco + 9 carriages.

[Fester]

Christ, I have always called it a train station all my life... just the way I was brought up.
Its a station that I used to go to, to get on a train.

I think the Isle of Mull must be a little boring if that's all you have to concern yourself with.

I have been known to go to a bus station to get on a bus..... whats the difference? ...... and who gives a SH#T.

[Merddin Emrys]

I have been known to go to a bus station to get on a bus..... whats the difference? ...... and who gives a SH#T.

Do you mean a Roadway Station? 

[Cambrian]

I wonder when it became "nothing new" that the platform capacity was loco plus 9 coaches.  I can recall 10 and 11 coach trains and my memory is supported by a Marshalling Circular from 1977/78 which shows trains to London and Manchester comprised of such lengths.  I hear the Royal Scotsman was stopped short at the Junction yesterday; I remember seeing this train in Llandudno two years ago. 

[Ian]

If you ever wonder when we started saying train station instead of railway station, read on.
(By Christopher Howse Last updated: August 24th, 2006)

"I'm sitting in the railway station," sang Paul Simon, inspired, some say by Widnes. Others say he was waiting at the now disused Ditton station, on the Cheshire-Lancashire border.

And if it comes to that, the photograph for the sleeve for Some Might Say, Oasis's first No 1, was taken at Cromford railway station, Derbyshire.

I also note that the Pogues' version of  the traditional song Poor Paddy (works on the railway) gives topographical detail lacking in the standard version: "In eighteen hundred and forty-two / From Hartlepool I moved to Crewe / Found myself a job to do / A working on the railway."

But this is not quite the point at issue. On train station versus railway station, a friendly internet dictionary [http://www.wordreference.com] gives railway station as the English for gare, but also gives train stop. It gives estacion de ferrocarril for both railway station and railroad station.

Railroad station used to be common in Britain, as anyone who has read Trollope knows. It is never used now in British English, but train station is definitely becoming the preferred form over railway station.

Why should this be? British Railways was the name of the network after nationalisation in 1948. In 1968 the name was changed to British Rail. The arrowed logo was retained for National Rail (the brand name of the Association of Train Operating Companies) after privatisation in 1993. The tracks were run first by Railtrack, which was effectively confiscated from its shareholders by the Government in 2002, and then run by Network.

All these names seem to privilege rail above train. But if you want to look up in the book the telephone number for timetable enquiries, you'll find it under "Train Times". I suspect that train station is reinforced by the parallel form bus station. Some towns have even got the idea of building one near the other for ease of travel. Others still reject this arrangement in favour of a character-building walk.

A complicating factor is onboard announcements of the next station stop. Bookshops suffer a perennial confusion over Robert Byron's book about monastic life in Greece called The Station. It is often shelved under transport."

[Ian]

And from the Guardian...

When did "railway station" become "train station"?

Probably around the time that kilometers became kilometers, when things that were "up to you" were suddenly "down to you", when people started saying they felt "good" and not "well", and when adverbs became an endangered species. Oh, and when people stopping sitting and standing and were just "sat" or "stood".

Rosemary Chamberlin, Bristol

Railway stations have many designations, but "train depot" is probably the commonest in the English-speaking world. The Russian railways have the most interesting one, vokshol, which derives from an early visit to British railways and the then main London terminus at Vauxhall. The Russian word derives from this because of a misunderstanding that "Vauxhall" meant "train station".

Brian Robinson, Brentwood, Essex

This is another attempt by our American cousins to "modernise" the language. My wife, Susan, originally from Louisiana, places railway in the ancient and obscure lingo category, along with aeroplane, motor car, carriageway and even charabanc.

Jonathan Street, Etchingham, E Sussex

According to the Google Books Ngram Viewer, which calculates the frequency of phrases in all books scanned by Google from 1800 to 2000, the phrase "train station" was first used significantly in 1960, and has been growing in popularity ever since. However, at least according to Google's data, "railway station" is still more popular.

Robin Wilson, Southampton

In 1963, when Lord Beeching closed down more than half of them.

David Prothero, Harpenden, Herts

For me, it was when I realised that modes of transport generally stop at places named after the type of transport itself, rather than what it rides on. It's why we don't catch a bus at a road station, and why we have tram stops, monorail stations, helipads, bike racks and car parks. Ports and airports are the exceptions and I see no reason for trains to be dispensated any longer.

Steve Smith, Lancaster

I suppose one of the reasons why "train station" is used rather than "railway station" is because it's easier to say, but why not just plain "station"? We say we are going to meet someone "at the station" and the road to it will probably be called "Station Road", not "Railway Station Road", let alone "Train Station Road". So when did "station" become "railway station"?

Roger Hand, Stoke St Gregory, Somerset

[SDQ]

I wonder when it became "nothing new" that the platform capacity was loco plus 9 coaches.  I can recall 10 and 11 coach trains and my memory is supported by a Marshalling Circular from 1977/78 which shows trains to London and Manchester comprised of such lengths.  I hear the Royal Scotsman was stopped short at the Junction yesterday; I remember seeing this train in Llandudno two years ago. 

Platform 3 used to be a loco + 11 coaches but the signal was moved back in line with the gantry of platforms 1 & 2 about 10 years ago when the old one was corroded at the base and became dangerous (I think the only thing keeping it up was the ladder!).
Anything longer than a loco + 9 and the train sits past the signal (so when it leaves it is an unsignalled move) and occupies the next track circuit which then locks the points, meaning a sealed release has to be broken to move the points which by-passes the integrity of the interlocking of the signalling equipment.
The Down siding is locked out of use so you can't use it to run the loco round it's train so that means trains need to be either top and tailed (2 locos +8) or a run round using the crossover in platforms 1 & 2 which would also reduce the consist of the train as it needs extra room to do it.

I understand that the Royal Scotsman was being sent up the branch to stable overnight at Llanrwst North Station.

[Cambrian]

Thanks for the clarification SDQ.  I'm sure I am not alone in wondering what has changed since May when Statesman ran their charter in for the Extravaganza. 

[SDQ]

Thanks for the clarification SDQ.  I'm sure I am not alone in wondering what has changed since May when Statesman ran their charter in for the Extravaganza. 

I think the train you're referring to was too big owing to an idiot in 'Planning' who allowed it to run which put the signaller on duty in a quandary as to whether to accept it. He was put under undue pressure from people sat in offices to let it run and had to do everything I described in my previous post. For the sake of a few quid a lot of rules and regulations were broken but that seems to be acceptable if it's profitable, that's the modern railway for you!
Thankfully everything went quite smoothly on the day but had there been an incident it would have been interesting to see if Network Rail had held up their hands or left the signaller out to dry!

[Bri Roberts]

The good news is the ten-vehicle long Statesman Rail charter train will be back this Saturday.

[Cambrian]

But not, unfortunately, into Llandudno, Bri.

Some better news is that Arriva are restoring a Cardiff - Llandudno  and Llandudno - Cardiff service after a gap of at least 40 years. They are also running in a direct service from Birmingham International and one from Manchester Airport. The change will take place sometime in September.

Going back to the charter trains, someone was asking me about the old Cae Mawr sidings, now reduced to 3 roads with attendant small trees courtesy of Network Rail.  If these were properly maintained presumably the loco could draw forward and be parked up until departure thus avoiding the fouling of the track circuit SDQ describes.

[Bri Roberts]

But not, unfortunately, into Llandudno, Bri.

Are you sure, Cambrian?

Today's Daily Post states " But late yesterday a Network Rail spokesman said there had been a 'special instruction' to the signaller to let this train use Llandudno."

This was after Conwy County Council's spokesman Cllr Philip Evans was dismayed by the ban which had left the operator giving customers the bad news.

[DaveR]

Some better news is that Arriva are restoring a Cardiff - Llandudno  and Llandudno - Cardiff service after a gap of at least 40 years. They are also running in a direct service from Birmingham International and one from Manchester Airport. The change will take place sometime in September.

That's good news. 

Going back to the charter trains, someone was asking me about the old Cae Mawr sidings, now reduced to 3 roads with attendant small trees courtesy of Network Rail.  If these were properly maintained presumably the loco could draw forward and be parked up until departure thus avoiding the fouling of the track circuit SDQ describes.

When were those sidings last used?

[SDQ]

Some better news is that Arriva are restoring a Cardiff - Llandudno  and Llandudno - Cardiff service after a gap of at least 40 years. They are also running in a direct service from Birmingham International and one from Manchester Airport. The change will take place sometime in September.

Going back to the charter trains, someone was asking me about the old Cae Mawr sidings, now reduced to 3 roads with attendant small trees courtesy of Network Rail.  If these were properly maintained presumably the loco could draw forward and be parked up until departure thus avoiding the fouling of the track circuit SDQ describes.

The Cardiff & Birmingham trains that currently run to Holyhead will terminate in Llandudno and the Manchester trains will run to Holyhead instead of Llandudno apparently, so the North Wales coast has exactly the same service but the services will be swapping where they terminate.

As I mentioned earlier the Down siding (Cae Mawr) is locked out of use and hasn't been used for the 14 years I've worked for Network Rail plus a few more on top. If a train went in there now I'm pretty sure it would just immediately derail.

[Cambrian]

I agree SDQ that's why I said: if the sidings were properly maintained.