Crime and criminals

[DaveR]

Has he upset you in the past, Yorkie? In my experience, he;s one of the hardest working and most respected Councillors. 

He may be hard working but is he directing his efforts in the best way?

My comment was based purely on the quotation posted by you from the NWWN.   No doubt he does good in other areas of concern.  Never met the bloke but we did both work for the same company! 

I think he's absolutely right. Colwyn Bay may be having millions spent on it for physical regeneration, but it will never be a success until the social problems caused by importing large numbers of problem people from other parts of the UK are tackled.

And, of course, you know that they are being "imported", if so that's the, Council's own fault.   And  I presume you also have proof that these large numbers (exactly how many?) are "problem" people? 

Give us some facts and figures to substantiate these matters.

Why would the Council have any say in the matter? They are being imported in by private Landlords, the only CCBC involvement occurs when they are forced to re-home them when the landlord kicks them out for antisocial behaviour etc. Go for a walk around Colwyn Bay, Lawson Road, Greenfield Road, and you'll soon meet some of them. When was the last time you walked down Lawson Road, Yorkie? I walk through Colwyn Bay every week, I see them at first hand....can you say them same?

[Yorkie]

I get about Colwyn Bay, Rhyl, Abergele, Prestatyn, and Llandudno and have a pretty good grasp of the local demographics.  So to answer your question, "Yes, and recently."  Whilst I will concede that CB has had problems in the past, it has improved over recent years, and providing that trend continues we are on the right path.  However, it is up to those in Authority to make positive rather than negative moves to ensure it continues.  Criticism of the ongoing situation by Councillors does little to assist integration of incomers and only goes to create doubts or anxiety in the local community. 

I have lived in this area, Colwyn Bay and Llandudno, since 1987, after a previous couple of years in the 1970s, so am not new to the area.  I have many friends and acquaintances locally and I think my view is fairly representative of theirs. 

Bob Squire could, I'm sure, be more positive in his outlook and put across an improving, rather than declining, projection.

[Hugo]

I think that we are talking of small minorities here and each town will have a certain amount of scum to put up with but to say that scum are not being imported into Colwyn Bay is turning a blind eye on the problem.
Advertisements in Prisons or local English  newspapers by the owners of these HMO's aimed at attracting these undesirables to the area with a promise of a better quality of life is just worsening an already bad situation.    The owners of these HMO's are only interested in making profits and although they are mainly to blame for the current problem some blame must go to CCBC for allowing these HMO's in the first place.
I've lived in the Bay for many years but have seen a decline in recent years with HMO's, drug centres and one of the busiest places I've seen is the Probation Office.
Cllr Bob Squire is right in speaking out and I wish that other Councillors would follow suit before it is too late.

[born2run]

"some blame must go to CCBC for allowing these HMO's in the first place"

Article 6 of the universal declaration of human rights says

Right to recognition as a person before the
law:
You have a right to be accepted everywhere as a person
according to law

Article 13, Right to free movement:
1) You have the right to come and go as you wish
within your country.
2) You have the right to leave your country to go to
another one, and you should be able to return to
your country if you want.

and finally

Article 30, Freedom from interference in these human
rights:
No person, group or government anywhere in the world
should do anything to destroy these rights.


What do you suggest we do with these "undesirables?"
Or do you not care as long as they are as far away from your doorstep?

[born2run]

Also is it just "imported" scum you want getting rid of? Are home grown undesirables welcome to stay?
Or are all local people upstanding citizens of the community?

[Yorkie]

Another read of Bob Squire's comments may lead one to think that he has never heard of The Human Rights Act or the various Articles thereof.   Are Councillors not trained in their duties and obligations prior to being let loose on the Public?
 

[Ian]

I seem to remember that HMOs have long been a problem for CB, but it's probably much harder to eliminate than to refuse conversion permission in the first instance. It's a tough issue to resolve, however, for all the reasons already posted. 

[DaveR]

Also is it just "imported" scum you want getting rid of? Are home grown undesirables welcome to stay?
Or are all local people upstanding citizens of the community?

I don't know if you have children, but if we assume that you do, would you be happy to have Barry Ford and his son move in next door to you?

"Following father and son, Barry Ford, 64, and Craig McKellar, 31, of Colwyn Bay being sentenced to 18 and 10 years, for rape and a sexual offences this week, Cllr Bob Squire has warned the town’s large number of bedsits and flats owned by absentee landlords is attracting more undesirables."

[Hugo]

WOW!  I'm completely overwhelmed by the revelations quoted in those Human Rights Acts.    It just sounds too good to be true
Article 13, Right to free movement:
1) You have the right to come and go as you wish
within your country.
There's got to be a catch somewhere.    Does this mean that the silent majority now have the right to go to a nice place of their choice to live, and have their rent and mortgage paid for them?     If it doesn't then it does seem a bit one sided.
To cope with any imported, undesirable scum the infrastructure must already be in place to deal with their needs but at the moment the Police,Probation Service, Drug clinics, GP's, Hospitals, Benefit Agencies and so on are struggling to cope with the status quo.
Wouldn't it be be better to restrict the HMO's and spend the resources on the present lot by educating and rehabilitating them and even encourage them to look for work?

[DaveR]

Spot on, Hugo. We always hear about 'Rights' but never anything about 'Responsibilities'. 

[Ian]

I suspect part of the problem is in defining an entire group as 'scum'. Of course there are going to be evil people; sexual predators, many politicians and some merchant bankers, for instance, gambling without thought for the futures of older people. But 'scum' is an emotive term, which fails to distinguish between those who are genuinely evil and those who simply stray.  You're discussing a small minority of ne'er do wells, yet the greatest misery is often wreaked by those in power: financial or political, on those trying to make ends meet on devalued pensions following the criminal negligence of bankers or - even worse - the actual criminal acts of US banks that have, collectively, brought about the single greatest depression the world has ever known. Compared with them, even the actions of the local thugs seem comparatively minor.

[DaveR]

I suspect part of the problem is in defining an entire group as 'scum'. Of course there are going to be evil people; sexual predators, many politicians and some merchant bankers, for instance, gambling without thought for the futures of older people. But 'scum' is an emotive term, which fails to distinguish between those who are genuinely evil and those who simply stray.  You're discussing a small minority of ne'er do wells, yet the greatest misery is often wreaked by those in power: financial or political, on those trying to make ends meet on devalued pensions following the criminal negligence of bankers or - even worse - the actual criminal acts of US banks that have, collectively, brought about the single greatest depression the world has ever known. Compared with them, even the actions of the local thugs seem comparatively minor.

I don't think anyone is defining an entire group as 'scum'? There is good and bad everywhere. Some people are decent, some people are scum, regardless of their walk of life. They could be on the dole, they could be a Banker.

But, in the case of Colwyn Bay, it's a fact that released criminals from the North West of England often end up living in bedsits in the town, thereby creating a concentrated problem that is dragging the town down. Ignoring that fact won't make it go away or deal with the problem.

At the end of the day, I'm on the side of the decent people in this country, who just get on with life and work hard, without expecting everything for nothing. They are the silent majority. We could all stay in bed whining that 'it's not fair', 'I've had a lot of bad luck' etc etc. Guess what...life isn't fair...deal with it.

[Ian]

I take your point, Dave, but what I'm saying, I suppose, is that we tend to  describe as 'scum' only those who apparently do things which appear bad but which in fact may actually be a consequence of the way in which our society deals with its social deviants. Our society is still too orientated towards rewarding wealth, while we tend to view those without means as deserving of punishment and usually as having brought it all on themselves. In terms of fairness, it's true life isn't fair - I agree - but remember that a recently released prisoner will often have an enormous battle on their hands to get a job at all. I'm not defending them, but I am saying that rehabilitation to society should be an achievable aim, rather than an impossibility.

[DaveR]

I've always said the criminal justice system needs to be better organised in filtering out those capable of rehabilitation from the hardcore criminals. Those capable of rehabilitation should certainly be given every assistance.

Every so often, a couple of people who have just appeared at the Magistrates Court in Llandudno will get on the bus to return home. They're usually pretty loud, so everyone else on the bus can hear what they're saying. Their attitude is generally one of regarding being caught/punished as a minor occupational hazard - they regard petty crime as an acceptable way of making their way through life, as its easier than getting a job. I've personally overheard them saying this on more than one occasion. Their conversations revolve around alcohol, drugs and the petty crimes they've committed. What will it take to steer them back onto the 'straight & narrow'?

[Yorkie]

What will it take to steer them back onto the 'straight & narrow'?

Bring back the BIRCH and let them be humiliated with a Public beating.