Author Topic: Crime and criminals  (Read 341915 times)

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Offline DaveR

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #330 on: August 31, 2012, 11:07:30 pm »
This is what Dave R is talking about Kowalski from his post a couple of weeks back

"In my experience, the sort of people committing these offences on public transport are always the same. Always a male in their 20s or 30s, always a Manchester or Liverpool accent, always swigging from cans of lager, always swearing at the top of their voice."

As sweeping generalizations go this one takes some beating.  ££$
Being as it is based on specific people I've seen, how can it be a generalisation? What you're saying doesn't make any sense.

Offline DaveR

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #331 on: August 31, 2012, 11:11:33 pm »
I travel on public transport all the time as it happens, more often than not my journey doesn't feature "scumbags".

I have encountered inconsiderate behaviour and anti-social habits quite often though, like yesterday when I had to stand for most of the train journey from Bangor to Rhyl because some people wanted a seat for their baggage, or like that Saturday in January Saturday when I went up to Glasgow by train  and had to listen to a smug middle class couple talk about their lives in nauseating detail for two and a half hours, or like that journey to Cardiff last year when students go on at Chester and I could hear what they were talking about at the other end of the carriage for 3 frigging hours, then there's the vast number of people that like to talk too loudly on public transport. I could go on.....

Hardly any of the examples I've given would involve what you would call "scumbags".
Dear me, what a terrible life you lead, having to listen to middle class people talk on the train. And they say people in the Third World have it bad!  :laugh:


Offline DaveR

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #332 on: August 31, 2012, 11:13:30 pm »
A recent court case.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2012/08/21/friends-jailed-for-25-years-for-merciless-train-station-assault-91466-31668563/

A group of friends who subjected two men to a merciless eight-minute assault have been jailed for a total of 25 years.

The unprovoked attack at Llandudno rail station, which left one of the victims with partial loss of vision and permanent damage to his eye, took place after a day spent drinking in the town centre.

Brothers Jamie John Griffiths, aged 24, of Tywyn Isaf, Prestatyn, and Jordan Griffiths, aged 22, of Ffordd Talargoch, Prestatyn, and a third man, Ciaran Wright, aged 18, of Ffordd Pennant, Prestatyn, were jailed at Mold Crown Court.

A fourth male, a 17-year-old youth – who cannot be named for legal reasons – was sent to a young offenders' institute.

All four were found guilty at an earlier hearing of causing grievous bodily harm and attempting to cause grievous bodily harm.

The court was told that on Friday, 28 October 2011, the four men had been out in Llandudno town centre all day celebrating Wright’s 18th birthday, and had each consumed a large amount of alcohol.

Around 11.40pm, they made their way to the station to see if they could catch a train home to Prestatyn, and it was here that they came across the two victims – one aged 43 and a 22-year-old.

Jordan Griffiths, Wright and the 17-year-old youth became involved in an altercation with the two men. Jamie Griffiths then ran into the station and, without provocation, attacked one of them.

This initiated an attack on both victims by all four men that lasted eight minutes. During the assault, which was captured on CCTV, both victims were seen to be punched repeatedly and kicked while semi-conscious on the floor.

At no point did either victim demonstrate any aggression towards any of their attackers, with one of them pleading for them to stop on more than one occasion.

When two of the attackers fled the scene both Griffiths brothers remained and continued the attack for a further five minutes.

At one point, the court heard, both victims were unconscious on the floor with the brothers kicking them to the head.

An 18-year-old woman, who the group had met earlier in Llandudno and was with them as they made their way to the station, tried to intervene and stop the attack, but was pushed away.

Both victims suffered head and facial injuries, as well as cuts and bruises to the neck, chest and back. Both also had bite marks, while one of them suffered a rupture to the left eye, which a consultant ophthalmologist described as “untreatable and irreversible”, adding that the victim was now at risk of developing cataract glaucoma and a detached retina in the future.

As a result of the assault, Jamie Griffiths was recalled to prison to serve the remainder of a sentence he received after committing a burglary in Wellington Road, Rhyl, on 9 September 2011.

In interview, Jamie Griffiths said he was drunk at the time of the attack and did not remember everything. He admitted at one point to sitting on one of the victims, punching him repeatedly to the head, and conceded that, at that this point, he would have feared for his life.

Wright also conceded that he didn’t remember much, as it was his birthday and he was drunk. He did, however, admit during interview to kicking one of the victims to the head or upper body before running from the scene and putting his hood up to hide his identity. He added he was sorry for his actions.

Jordan Griffiths provided no comment to all questions asked in interview, while the 17-year-old youth claimed he was drunk and could remember only parts of the incident. He apologised before adding that he did not intend for anything to happen.

Speaking after sentencing, Detective Inspector Mark Cleland, of British Transport Police, said: “This was a prolonged and horrific attack on two men who were making their way home from a night out in Llandudno.

“When they were unconscious and defenceless on the ground, both Griffiths brothers took advantage, launching violent blows to their victims, leaving them seriously injured.

“It is clear through the injuries suffered and the trauma of the ordeal that this incident has had a severe impact on the victims. Due to the severity of the attack, one of them has been left with a life-changing injury to his left eye, where he now has only peripheral vision.

“I welcome the sentences handed down and hope they go some way to helping the victims to start moving on with their lives.”

The two Griffiths brothers were each sentenced to seven years imprisonment.

Wright was sentenced to six years imprisonment.

The 17-year-old youth was sentenced to five years in a young offenders' institute.

Offline born2run

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #333 on: August 31, 2012, 11:49:07 pm »
This is what Dave R is talking about Kowalski from his post a couple of weeks back

"In my experience, the sort of people committing these offences on public transport are always the same. Always a male in their 20s or 30s, always a Manchester or Liverpool accent, always swigging from cans of lager, always swearing at the top of their voice."

As sweeping generalizations go this one takes some beating.  ££$
Being as it is based on specific people I've seen, how can it be a generalisation? What you're saying doesn't make any sense.

No what you said doesn't make any sense. You may have seen specific people but you actually say "the sort of people committing these offences on public transport are always the same"  Just because you have seen someone do something doesn't mean that all people from that age group and locality act in the same way, which is what you seem to believe.

I was on a train a few months ago going from London heading into Surrey and I saw a large gang of upper class oafs swigging wine and lager and using, I'm sure, just as bad language and causing as much of a scene as the fellows you have witnessed. The difference is I don't go on a forum and say

"In my experience, the sort of people committing these offences on public transport are always the same. Always a male in their 20s or 30s, always a Windsor,Kingston or other upper class accent always swigging from bottles of expensive wine or beer always swearing at the top of their voice."

Because I know that would be just as much a pointless generalization as your Manchester/Liverpool one was.

Offline Fester

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #334 on: September 01, 2012, 12:10:53 am »
''I had to listen to a smug middle class couple talk about their lives in nauseating detail for two and a half hours'',

Ha ha... Dave, that sounds like spending an entire afternoon in Caffe Nero!   :laugh: :laugh:
Fester...
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Offline DaveR

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #335 on: September 01, 2012, 07:22:38 am »
This is what Dave R is talking about Kowalski from his post a couple of weeks back

"In my experience, the sort of people committing these offences on public transport are always the same. Always a male in their 20s or 30s, always a Manchester or Liverpool accent, always swigging from cans of lager, always swearing at the top of their voice."

As sweeping generalizations go this one takes some beating.  ££$
Being as it is based on specific people I've seen, how can it be a generalisation? What you're saying doesn't make any sense.

No what you said doesn't make any sense. You may have seen specific people but you actually say "the sort of people committing these offences on public transport are always the same"  Just because you have seen someone do something doesn't mean that all people from that age group and locality act in the same way, which is what you seem to believe.
Not at all, that's not what I said. If you look at what I said again, you'll see the quote begins with 'In my experience'. All of the incidents I have personally witnessed have been committed by "a male in their 20s or 30s, always a Manchester or Liverpool accent, always swigging from cans of lager, always swearing at the top of their voice". That's a fact, whether you like it or not. Maybe I've just been unlucky but I can honestly say I've never heard a person with a local accent causing trouble in that way.  $walesflag$

Offline DaveR

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #336 on: September 01, 2012, 07:23:28 am »
''I had to listen to a smug middle class couple talk about their lives in nauseating detail for two and a half hours'',

Ha ha... Dave, that sounds like spending an entire afternoon in Caffe Nero!   :laugh: :laugh:
Yes...and, even worse.... hogging the window seats too.  &shake&

Offline Yorkie

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #337 on: September 01, 2012, 07:30:01 am »
'In my experience'. All of the incidents I have personally witnessed have been committed by "a male in their 20s or 30s, always a Manchester or Liverpool accent, always swigging from cans of lager, always swearing at the top of their voice".

So all these Cockneys and Brummies are OK people then!    _))*
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Offline born2run

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #338 on: September 01, 2012, 10:47:17 am »
This is what Dave R is talking about Kowalski from his post a couple of weeks back

"In my experience, the sort of people committing these offences on public transport are always the same. Always a male in their 20s or 30s, always a Manchester or Liverpool accent, always swigging from cans of lager, always swearing at the top of their voice."

As sweeping generalizations go this one takes some beating.  ££$
Being as it is based on specific people I've seen, how can it be a generalisation? What you're saying doesn't make any sense.

No what you said doesn't make any sense. You may have seen specific people but you actually say "the sort of people committing these offences on public transport are always the same"  Just because you have seen someone do something doesn't mean that all people from that age group and locality act in the same way, which is what you seem to believe.
Not at all, that's not what I said. If you look at what I said again, you'll see the quote begins with 'In my experience'. All of the incidents I have personally witnessed have been committed by "a male in their 20s or 30s, always a Manchester or Liverpool accent, always swigging from cans of lager, always swearing at the top of their voice". That's a fact, whether you like it or not. Maybe I've just been unlucky but I can honestly say I've never heard a person with a local accent causing trouble in that way.  $walesflag$

Well I do think you must have been unlucky. There is no way, surely, that you believe that all or even the majority of offences are committed by people from Liverpool or Manchester? Which again makes me wonder why you made a post chastising people from Liverpool and Manchester, and further wonder why you believe that is acceptable. I'm almost sure that if the people you have seen had all been black you would not have made a post on here saying that in your "experience" all crime is committed by black people.

Offline Yorkie

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #339 on: September 01, 2012, 11:04:30 am »

Maybe I've just been unlucky but I can honestly say I've never heard a person with a local accent causing trouble in that way.  $walesflag$

I wonder what is the "local" accent?   It appears to me that a local person can have anything from a real broad Welsh accent to any other regional accent of the UK.  To my mind there is no such thing as a "local" accent, or if there is, I don't recognise one that is distinctive enough to regard it as "North Walien".

 $uk
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Offline DaveR

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #340 on: September 01, 2012, 04:34:35 pm »
Well I do think you must have been unlucky. There is no way, surely, that you believe that all or even the majority of offences are committed by people from Liverpool or Manchester? Which again makes me wonder why you made a post chastising people from Liverpool and Manchester, and further wonder why you believe that is acceptable. I'm almost sure that if the people you have seen had all been black you would not have made a post on here saying that in your "experience" all crime is committed by black people.
Unlucky or not, it happened. I've never said the majority of offences in general are committed by Liverpool or Manchester people, however it is a fact the incidents I have personally witnessed were committed by people with accents from those areas. If you don't like that, it's tough, I'm afraid, because I'm not going to lie for you or anyone else.  &shake&

Offline DaveR

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #341 on: September 01, 2012, 04:35:35 pm »

Maybe I've just been unlucky but I can honestly say I've never heard a person with a local accent causing trouble in that way.  $walesflag$

I wonder what is the "local" accent?   It appears to me that a local person can have anything from a real broad Welsh accent to any other regional accent of the UK.  To my mind there is no such thing as a "local" accent, or if there is, I don't recognise one that is distinctive enough to regard it as "North Walien".

 $uk
Perhaps you don't know as many people as me, Yorkie?  ;) I know you certainly don't travel in the local area as widely as I do.

Offline Yorkie

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #342 on: September 01, 2012, 04:52:38 pm »
Perhaps you don't know as many people as me, Yorkie?  ;) I know you certainly don't travel in the local area as widely as I do.

I think you have both points incorrect there!   The number of local people I am aquainted with in the three towns area is quite exhaustive, not just those who are here now but those who have moved away!  I also have travelled, and still do travel, locally and over the whole of North Wales, on a very regular basis.  I have also lived locally for 25 years so am not exactly a new boy on the block!  I do not have impaired hearing and I still cannot recognise anything resembling a local accent.  Pop a video on the Forum with someone using the local accent, then I shall be suitably enlightened. WWW
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Offline Hugo

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #343 on: September 01, 2012, 06:03:36 pm »
Can't you recognise a Liverpool or Manchester accent Yorkie because they are not difficult to recognise?

Offline Yorkie

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Re: Crime and criminals
« Reply #344 on: September 01, 2012, 10:48:26 pm »
Can't you recognise a Liverpool or Manchester accent Yorkie because they are not difficult to recognise?

Oh yes I recognise The Scouse and MU accents but according to others, they are NOT the local accent.  I remain without that knowledge which I seek! 
 ;)
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