Three Towns Forum - Talk about Llandudno, Colwyn Bay & Conwy

The Local => Local News & Discussion => Topic started by: Ian on April 05, 2017, 06:44:16 PM

Title: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Ian on April 05, 2017, 06:44:16 PM
A new topic to list all the examples of gross incompetence by CCBC. (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers).
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, WA, Government, Local council - put it in here
Post by: Bri Roberts on April 06, 2017, 07:16:17 AM
Ian, I think you mean the Welsh Government (WG) rather than the Welsh Assembly.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, WAG, Government, Local council - put it in here
Post by: Ian on April 06, 2017, 08:49:02 AM
I've changed it now, but I did initially mean the Assembly itself. On reflection, however, it should be the WAG - you're right.  Whatever we put in here should be provable examples of incompetence, too. Not just opinion.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, WA, Government, Local council - put it in here
Post by: Cambrian on April 06, 2017, 08:52:03 AM
I am sure Ian's description wasn't  intended to exclusive.  The NAfW is as capable of incompetence as any other body - some might say more so. 

Just a thought - perhaps "Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers" would be a more embracing title and cover NRW, railways, buses, the Planning Inspectorate, Housing Associations, Cadw and so on ?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on April 06, 2017, 10:39:24 AM
I've changed it again (!) but there's a limit on the topic header and I wanted to make it clear that those who legislate should be uppermost. "Statutory Undertakers" could be confused for Crematoria associates  WWW
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: born2run on April 06, 2017, 12:04:12 PM
(https://static.sportskeeda.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/undertaker_wwe_picture-3-1439546947-800.jpg)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on April 29, 2017, 08:45:06 AM
First very clear example of incompetence comes from Mid-Glamorgan:  Phil Chappell, head of Vale of Glamorgan Council’s economic development team, tweeted in response to an enquiry on the best places to eat in Llandudno : “There’s a bearable Italian above some shops somewhere.

“Pass the smack addicts turn left and follow the pictures of Keith Chegwin.”


Later claimed it was a 'joke'...
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on April 29, 2017, 10:53:14 AM
I read the article and like you found it thoughtless, but I was surprised to read the comments, the majority in support of his views.

He has since deleted the tweet, and claimed it was a joke ?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on April 29, 2017, 11:28:54 AM
That's the incompetent bit, Steve. He's perfectly entitled to say whatever rubbish comes into his head but as the head of Vale of Glamorgan Council’s economic development team to claim it was a 'joke' is simply incompetent.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on April 29, 2017, 11:37:19 AM
Agreed, and we will soon get the chance to vote in new, hopefully less incompetent officials.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on April 29, 2017, 01:19:46 PM
I suspect that's the problem:  we can't vote in officials - only those who appoint them.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on May 03, 2017, 12:24:52 PM
This does not help.......

Uncontested council election seats 'mockery of democracy'

Nearly 100 councillors in Wales will be reappointed without being challenged at the local elections.
On Thursday, 7.3% of Welsh local authority seats will be uncontested, with 92 councillors returned without any votes being cast.
One county councillor in Powys has gone unchallenged for his seat for 37 years.
Prof Roger Scully, of Cardiff University's Wales Governance Centre, said it made a "mockery of democracy".

Conwy has 6 uncontested seats.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-39751858 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-39751858)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Merddin Emrys on May 26, 2017, 08:38:33 AM
Unbelievable!

Cost of Conwy council building soars £23 MILLION

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/cost-conwy-council-building-soars-13094522 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/cost-conwy-council-building-soars-13094522)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: DaveR on May 26, 2017, 08:51:30 AM
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Unbelievable!

Cost of Conwy council building soars £23 MILLION

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/cost-conwy-council-building-soars-13094522 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/cost-conwy-council-building-soars-13094522)
I'm sure we can now look forward to another round of Council Cutbacks in order to fund their new HQ building.  &shake&
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Merddin Emrys on May 26, 2017, 09:04:31 AM
These councils all say they do not have money, so where does the £23 million come from?   &shake&
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on May 26, 2017, 10:11:27 AM
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These councils all say they do not have money, so where does the £23 million come from?   &shake&

This type of situation is caused by inexperienced people dealing with business, in this case PFI which appears cheap to start with, but could and does end up much more expensive.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: BMD on May 26, 2017, 02:30:49 PM
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Unbelievable!

Cost of Conwy council building soars £23 MILLION

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/cost-conwy-council-building-soars-13094522 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/cost-conwy-council-building-soars-13094522)

Staggering. Total cost now given as £58 million (up from £35 million). Everything about this stinks. "Although not a formal PFI agreement, the details put forward by the council are hazy and there are certainly striking similarities between this financial agreement and other PFI schemes."

PFI-type arrangements are generally frowned upon as being an extremely bad deal for the public. Often likened to putting a mortgage on a credit card.

I'm so glad that CCBC is being careful with our money. It makes complete sense - we'll get a hyper-expensive council building but no pier. And as the council says, "The new offices also form part of a wider regeneration programme in Colwyn Bay, and we have already seen benefits in the local and wider economy." Utter bullshit.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on May 26, 2017, 02:56:24 PM
"benefits in the local and wider economy"  Perhaps we should ask for details?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Tom Davidson on May 26, 2017, 03:18:40 PM
The theory is that the new office will see all the staff plonked in the heart of Colwyn Bay who will then nip out for lunch/do shopping after work in the Bay and help improve the town.

Well, that's one of the theories.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on June 02, 2017, 10:58:01 AM
Extra election cash for council chief executives slammed
Fat cats are paid thousands of pounds for reading out the general election results, as well as helping to organise polls in some places.

Across North Wales, county council chief executives - most of whom are on six-figure salaries - will be looking forward to bumper pay days for reading out the general election results, as well as helping to organise the poll in one or two constituencies.
The payments, which can run to thousands of pounds, are in addition to the wages they receive for doing their day job.
At the 2012 local elections in Flintshire, the returning officer was entitled to a one-off payment of £14,364.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/extra-election-cash-council-chief-13123906 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/extra-election-cash-council-chief-13123906)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Dave on June 02, 2017, 11:32:00 AM
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Extra election cash for council chief executives slammed
Fat cats are paid thousands of pounds for reading out the general election results, as well as helping to organise polls in some places.

Across North Wales, county council chief executives - most of whom are on six-figure salaries - will be looking forward to bumper pay days for reading out the general election results, as well as helping to organise the poll in one or two constituencies.
The payments, which can run to thousands of pounds, are in addition to the wages they receive for doing their day job.
At the 2012 local elections in Flintshire, the returning officer was entitled to a one-off payment of £14,364.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/extra-election-cash-council-chief-13123906 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/extra-election-cash-council-chief-13123906)

Unbelievable!
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Fester on June 02, 2017, 05:58:35 PM
.... and you wonder why I despise the B##%%#S !!!
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: DaveR on June 05, 2017, 09:24:07 AM
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The theory is that the new office will see all the staff plonked in the heart of Colwyn Bay who will then nip out for lunch/do shopping after work in the Bay and help improve the town.

Well, that's one of the theories.
It's just displacement, surely? Money spent by staff in Colwyn Bay will be money that is currently spent in Conwy  town etc?

Councils should be forced to rent the cheapest office space they can find, instead of wasting money that could be used for public services.  &shake&
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Tom Davidson on June 13, 2017, 03:08:19 PM
Shameless self promotion: http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/plaid-cymru-tories-conwy-council-13178909 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/plaid-cymru-tories-conwy-council-13178909)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on June 15, 2017, 11:09:15 AM
Plaid Cymru/Tory coalition in Conwy will have 'catastrophic effect' on Plaid says leaked email
Council leader Gareth Jones has unveiled a cabinet which has five Conservatives, four Plaid Cymru councillors and one Independent... (Conwy Council currently has 16 Conservatives, 14 members of the Conwy First Independent Group, 10 Plaid Cymru councillors, seven Independents, eight Labour councillors and four Liberal Democrats.)

The email says: "Gareth Jones will be leading the Conwy Council cabinet, but in order to verify this PC (Plaid Cymru) will have to work in collaboration with the Tories on the Cabinet, this is partly because the Labour Party have refused to work with the Tories on the Cabinet on the principle they will not work with the Tories under any circumstances.

"With only one Independent member on the Cabinet, this means that the Tories will have a majority with PC leading the Cabinet.
"As a matter of principle I would rather see a cross party representation on the Cabinet and have no Tory Cabinet members than having a Plaid Cymru Leader and a majority of Tory members.

"I'm afraid this will have a catastrophic effect on Plaid Cymru here in Aberconwy, the demographics of the county is already against us and the Labour Party have gained a surge of new tactical voters as well as strong support from the younger voters.
"Labour and the press will have a field day and will most probably ruin Plaid Cymru's name in Aberconwy because of this."

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/plaid-cymrutory-coalition-conwy-catastrophic-13184745 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/plaid-cymrutory-coalition-conwy-catastrophic-13184745)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on June 16, 2017, 08:57:49 PM
Plaid Cymru reject Tory coalition proposal at Conwy council
The local authority has been thrown into turmoil as Plaid says members will not form cabinet with Conservatives.

"Cllr Jones has told the BBC he was disappointed by the decision and wants a detailed and thorough explanation of why exactly this decision was taken.

Plaid cabinet member Trystan Lewis, who was cabinet member of primary education and the council’s Welsh language champion, has said on Facebook that he has resigned from the executive.

He said he was sad to lose this opportunity to make a difference locally but remained loyal to Plaid Cymru."
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/plaid-cymru-reject-tory-coalition-13196978 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/plaid-cymru-reject-tory-coalition-13196978)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on June 17, 2017, 08:41:24 AM
I've long thought parties are a disaster at local level.  Now they're not doing a whole lot better at national level, but I just think it would be a nice change if politicians of whatever persuasion could just work together for the good of the community. It would involve compromise of course, but I wonder how important parties are at local level, anyway. I suspect most vote for the councillor they know and who's proved themselves.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Hugo on June 17, 2017, 10:11:16 AM
There certainly were more independent candidates years ago, but I agree with you about people voting for the Councillor who best looks after their community.
Politics doesn't come into it when I cast my vote at the local elections
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on June 18, 2017, 02:22:06 PM
Council finance chief didn't know about £3.8m council tax black hole.

Cllr Peredur Jenkins was not aware of how much the council was owed in unpaid council tax, or that the authority had the worst rate for non-collection in north Wales
"However Plaid Cymru’s Cllr Jenkins, who has been Gwynedd cabinet’s finance man for four years, said he felt unable to comment on his own administration’s poor performance.
He said: “I have got no information at the moment. I would have to have a look at the figures.”
When told they came direct from the Welsh Government and asked if he was aware of the amount of arrears in the county Cllr Jenkins said: “No I wasn’t”.

Article with comments below...
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/gwynedd-council-tax-arrears-collection-13200364 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/gwynedd-council-tax-arrears-collection-13200364)


I have posted a couple of the comments in case you cannot see them.........

"He said: “I have got no information at the moment. I would have to have a look at the figures.”
I have seen so many people sacked in the private sector, nice to see the public sector are tolerant of idiots, incompetence and a total lack of morals. "

" It's time for new young enthusiastic members of Conwy Council who have the will and desire to work for improvement for change. However, parties I've voted for in the past, Plaid are not inclusive and this is part of the problem, working together and inclusivity. Diolch"

"I have been a Plaid supporter alongside my family and friends for most of my life. No longer! They are divisive, they are not representing our Welsh voice and Leanne Woods should go. A change of competent fresh faces needed on Conwy County Borough Council after decades of chaos and the same old faces year after year. Inclusion, fairness and not exclusion of new faces and change. It's shameful to be asleep on such a crucial job!"

"A total change is needed and it's time for change. The concern is elected members refusing to work with others which is an absolute disgrace for progress. New faces, new approach and new way of working after decades of failures by CCBC. Tegwch i bawb - fairness for all. Too much time spent backbiting rather than doing the work in this authority and exclusion and divisive elected members need to be ousted out of Councils. The old faces have been around for decades and made a shocking mess and it is time for a regeneration of new faces and a fresh approach."

Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Fester on June 18, 2017, 04:51:00 PM
Clowns to the left of us.... and even more Clowns to the right..... 

I was going to say it's unbelievable, but it really isn't is it?  Not these days.

Time I stopped paying my council tax, it seems there are no consequences.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on June 19, 2017, 03:20:05 PM
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Plaid Cymru reject Tory coalition proposal at Conwy council
The local authority has been thrown into turmoil as Plaid says members will not form cabinet with Conservatives.
"Cllr Jones has told the BBC he was disappointed by the decision and wants a detailed and thorough explanation of why exactly this decision was taken.
Plaid cabinet member Trystan Lewis, who was cabinet member of primary education and the council’s Welsh language champion, has said on Facebook that he has resigned from the executive.
He said he was sad to lose this opportunity to make a difference locally but remained loyal to Plaid Cymru."
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/plaid-cymru-reject-tory-coalition-13196978 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/plaid-cymru-reject-tory-coalition-13196978)

Not incompetence, but a bit of common sense for a change.  $good$ ......as Ian said above.... " I just think it would be a nice change if politicians of whatever persuasion could just work together for the good of the community"

Plaid Cymru Conwy leader defies party on Tory coalition.
The Plaid Cymru leader of Conwy council has presented a cabinet including Conservatives in defiance of what he called a "diktat" from his party.
Gareth Jones told a meeting of the full council on Monday that party politics "should not distract us".

"Presenting his team to the full council, Mr Jones said: "I respect the people of Conwy and how they voted. That's what's important, not a diktat that isn't democratic"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-40327969 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-40327969)


Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on June 21, 2017, 11:17:22 AM
The leader of Conwy council has left the Plaid Cymru group.
Gareth Jones said he would sit as an independent following a meeting of Plaid's local branch committee, as there was "no future" for him as leader and a Plaid member.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-40340480 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-40340480)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on July 28, 2017, 10:40:32 AM
Council bigwig given 'posh' £28,000 Audi by cash-strapped authority says it's 'cost effective'

Councillor Davies, 53, said he was unable to drive the previous chairman’s manual car - a Skoda Superb - and can only drive an automatic after suffering a serious injury to his left ankle in a work-related accident.

The controversial decision to buy him the car has sparked outrage in a county which was forced to cut its budget by £29 million between 2016-19
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/28-000-audi-powys-council-13378293 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/28-000-audi-powys-council-13378293)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on July 28, 2017, 10:54:57 AM
He might need an auto, but why such a pricey one? Lot cheaper around.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: DaveR on July 28, 2017, 11:08:00 AM
Surely he can buy his own car?  &shake&
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on July 28, 2017, 11:09:24 AM
I liked these quotes.....

 "The chairman has a £12,000 fund to spend on entertaining and dinners. Also between staff costs, the area committees cost a total of £35,000 to run. It all mounts up.”

 “To review the future role of the chairman and all civic roles”.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: spotty dog on July 28, 2017, 11:35:56 AM
What is wrong with a disability car as provided by the government subject to passing a medical test
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on July 28, 2017, 01:47:20 PM
I have a suspicion that all this goes back to how local councils regard themselves. They feel they have some sort of importance, and interpret that as meaning the chairman has to have transport 'befitting his role'.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on July 28, 2017, 02:00:06 PM
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I have a suspicion that all this goes back to how local councils regard themselves. They feel they have some sort of importance, and interpret that as meaning the chairman has to have transport 'befitting his role'.

'befitting his role'.

Available in automatic
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on August 04, 2017, 11:07:12 AM
£40,000 sickness czar appointed to bring absences down by one day per worker
Conwy council says it will save £400,000 a year, but critics say target is nowhere near ambitious enough.

"It is the latest initiative from the authority, which last year introduced free yoga classes in work time because so many staff were complaining of back pain.
The council said if the new role managed to reduce the time lost to around 10-and-a-half days, it could save the council up to £400,000 a year.

The Daily Post understands the post will be paid for out of the existing human resources budget, and will not cost the council extra."
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/40000-sickness-czar-appointed-bring-13426932 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/40000-sickness-czar-appointed-bring-13426932)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: born2run on August 04, 2017, 12:31:24 PM
"Daddy what do you do in work?"

"Well Son, I'm a sickness czar. Work hard and maybe you can join me in the family business someday"

 >>>
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Neil on August 04, 2017, 02:33:48 PM
Pay
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: norman08 on August 04, 2017, 04:25:36 PM
Just shows how bad the top brass are ,it's not a new thing though I remember 40+ years ago one guy was off sick every other month , if some of the managers/ supervisors didn't act the bully boy the worker would be happier to go to work, could even try what hotpoint and Quints did years ago .no need to pay £40.000 to anyone ,the personnel dept are not doing their job properly by the looks of it .
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Bri Roberts on August 04, 2017, 04:26:52 PM
On a lovely sunny afternoon, there were no deck chairs on the beach or promenade when we passed this afternoon.

Not surprising when the deck chairs are under the tarpaulin and the usual sign is not on display.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on August 04, 2017, 04:36:16 PM
What's interesting is what the report doesn't say. In what departments are the sickness rates high?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Fester on August 04, 2017, 11:11:20 PM
It's becoming endemic.
A guy I know, who is a hotel duty 'manager' in Llandudno, has phoned in sick this weekend because he hates one of his colleagues he is on the rota to work with.
The General Manager has not dealt with some problem or other, so it's best to phone in sick with Stress apparently.

I did enquire of him whether having the word 'manager' in his title, might lead his superiors to expect him to 'manage' this issue somewhat better than this? 
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Hugo on August 05, 2017, 10:40:53 AM
I'm afraid that it's the same old story, that the minority spoil it for the majority but you don't need to employ a sickness czar as long as you have good line managers who should be able to sort the sickness problem out and know who has genuine sickness and who is swinging the lead.

Patterns can sometimes be found in frequent "sick" days off and the line manager should be looking closely at that.   

It's only an opinion based on what I've seen first hand but in employments where they operate a "self certificated" sick note system it can be abused, whereas the SSP system of no work no pay may encourage those that swing the lead to come in.

The downside there though is that the people who are genuinely sick may struggle to come into work when they should be off sick




Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on August 05, 2017, 10:45:52 AM
Local councils do operate the self-certification for short illnesses, but I agree that good line managers would save this absurd expenditure. On the other hand , making council-wide changes would require someone with a bit of clout. 
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Hugo on August 05, 2017, 11:54:50 AM
If there is a policy in place for dealing with sick leave then it is up to the line manager to follow it.     I've heard all types of excuses for being off sick and some of them beggar belief:-

Sickness ---   exhaustion                                             Real reason  ----- tired after a full day shopping
sickness   ---- chemical poisoning                                 Real reason -----  decoration the house the day before
sickness ---  dealing with death of Aunt                         Real reason ------  unknown  as Aunt had died twice before!
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on August 05, 2017, 11:59:57 AM
Would a private sector company employ a "sickness czar" ?  but then again they do not appear to need one.

" The post has been created after Conwy council found its workers were averaging 11.67 sick days each - nearly triple the 4.3 average in the private sector."

And their aim to reduce the percentage to 10.5, still more than double the private sector, is ridiculous, also their comment ..."The post will be paid for, out of the existing human resources budget, and will not cost the council extra" . Well that's OK then.......

Maybe its time councilors, got paid by results.


Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: DVT on August 05, 2017, 02:55:17 PM
"The post will be paid for, out of the existing human resources budget, and will not cost the council extra" . Well that's OK then.......


Simples ... they stop paying those swinging the lead and instead pay the sickness czar who can sit in his/her office to wonder why. 

So no extra cost to the council - or rather no extra cost to us council tax payers.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Fester on August 05, 2017, 10:22:36 PM
Steve H, your question is an easy one...  NO.  A private company would never employ such a position.
Because it's only those spending tax payers money who are so profligate with it.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on August 06, 2017, 08:14:28 AM
On the other hand, of course, private companies offer employees things which local authorities can't, such as incentive and bonus payments.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Fester on August 06, 2017, 04:16:49 PM
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On the other hand, of course, private companies offer employees things which local authorities can't, such as incentive and bonus payments.

You don't think that approximately £14,000 for a council leader to be 'acting returning officer' at elections is a Brucey Bonus then?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on August 07, 2017, 08:55:36 AM
Indeed, but I was talking about 'employees'.  We've known for years that those at the top always reward themselves first.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: DaveR on August 17, 2017, 08:48:32 AM
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£40,000 sickness czar appointed to bring absences down by one day per worker
Conwy council says it will save £400,000 a year, but critics say target is nowhere near ambitious enough.

"It is the latest initiative from the authority, which last year introduced free yoga classes in work time because so many staff were complaining of back pain.
The council said if the new role managed to reduce the time lost to around 10-and-a-half days, it could save the council up to £400,000 a year.

The Daily Post understands the post will be paid for out of the existing human resources budget, and will not cost the council extra."
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/40000-sickness-czar-appointed-bring-13426932 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/40000-sickness-czar-appointed-bring-13426932)
What's interesting is that the 11.5 days sick per year is the average figure. I imagine that quite a few CCBC workers don't take any time off sick in a particular year, so I reckon there are a fair few having anything up to a month or more off sick in a year.  &shake&
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Hugo on August 17, 2017, 09:24:34 AM
Same old story Dave and it's the same in National Government too.      No one minds genuine sick cases but there are always regular minorities that abuse the system and spoil it for the rest.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Dave on August 18, 2017, 04:40:30 PM
Some people see sick leave as extra holiday entitlement, others as just an excuse not to go to work. It's easy to criticise though, there must be loads of people who have poorly paid incredibly mundane jobs who are treated badly by their equally poorly paid or bored bosses whose only joy in life is the fact they are one rung above and can treat their subordinates with distain.All too often any attempt to make work more enjoyable isn't even thought of.
That said I was lucky to have an interesting job, was well paid for what I did and as a consequence spent 30 years with my last employer and had no more than a handful of days off for genuine sick leave. A younger colleague who had only been in the job a couple of years, well perhaps five, took a year off with stress whilst setting up a new private business. Within a week or two of coming back to work they resigned.
Different age, different attitudes.
The more that's given, the more it's taken.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Hugo on August 18, 2017, 05:45:08 PM
The problem with sick leave in the Nation Government and perhaps local Government jobs is that the employee receives full pay for 6 months, then half pay for the next 6 months, then pensionable pay for the rest of the sick leave period.
In many outside occupations this doesn't happen and the employees have to go on SSP  instead and if this system was applied to National and Local Government then I would think that there would be a reduction in sickness absences.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: DaveR on August 21, 2017, 08:56:40 AM
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The problem with sick leave in the Nation Government and perhaps local Government jobs is that the employee receives full pay for 6 months, then half pay for the next 6 months, then pensionable pay for the rest of the sick leave period.
In many outside occupations this doesn't happen and the employees have to go on SSP  instead and if this system was applied to National and Local Government then I would think that there would be a reduction in sickness absences.
Absolutely right, Hugo.  $good$
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: born2run on August 21, 2017, 09:14:58 AM
My Wife doesn't get any sick leave at all, unless signed off by the Doctor. I think this is as much a cause for concern as people abusing the sick leave they are given. People going to work ill, especially those who look after children/old people etc is a very real danger.

That is also why I don't agree with Hugo's idea that incentive's to come to work are a good idea either.

I think this 'Sickness Emperor' will do more harm than good.

Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on August 21, 2017, 09:19:40 AM
It's not quite as good as it sounds. They do have to produce medical evidence for any time exceeding 7 days, I think, and after a month the employer can choose to compel them to have an independent medical examination to confirm the illness is genuine.

It probably was abused in previous years, but it's become much easier to get rid of staff who are consistently off work, now, so I doubt most are willing to risk it that often.  And the really generous conditions as described above only apply to so-called permanent appointments in the main, such as Hospital Doctors, Teachers, Nurses, Civil Servants and Social Workers. And the management in each of those has become far more aggressive in pursuing the individuals if absence is either prolonged or frequent.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on August 21, 2017, 09:24:57 AM
Just picking up on B2R's post about incentives. 

In a good organisation or company people should want to go into work. If they don't, then I would suggest the company needs to understand why not, especially if there's evidence many are in that situation. All the evidence shows that an unhappy workforces isn't a productive workforce.

Almost all who go off on 'long term sick leave' tend to be genuinely ill, either physically or mentally. Now, some may think it's acceptable for an employer to simply fire someone who's just had a diagnosis of cancer, but others might not.  And that's really the choice society has to make.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Hugo on August 21, 2017, 02:51:42 PM
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My Wife doesn't get any sick leave at all, unless signed off by the Doctor. I think this is as much a cause for concern as people abusing the sick leave they are given. People going to work ill, especially those who look after children/old people etc is a very real danger.

That is also why I don't agree with Hugo's idea that incentive's to come to work are a good idea either.

I think this 'Sickness Emperor' will do more harm than good.

BTR you've hit the nail on the head and that is exactly what I've said.    National Government and Local Government employees are protected with regard to sick leave and I take it by your wife's example that she doesn't work for local or national government.
In outside industry they don't have the sort of protection for genuine sick absences as they do in national and local government and it should be addressed.

However  I think that the CCBC do not need to have a well paid additional person in to monitor sick leave, that is their line manager's job,  no one else's and if they are not doing it properly then they should be held accountable for it.
The line manager should be able to determine the genuine cases from those that are not and should be looking for patterns in someone's sick absences.   That's not just to get rid of people but to see if there are any underlying problems that the line manager can help them with.

Many years ago when I first started work I had to record the sick leave of a staff of about 30 people, roughly divided as 15 men and 15 women.   When I checked them at the end of the year 3 women each had over 20 days sick leave and the aggregate total of sick leave for all the men came to less than 20 days.   This isn't a sexist remark it is just a fact based on the figures I had obtained, yet to the best of my knowledge and belief this was never looked into and continued until the office closed.

I can quote many examples, for instance a person broke their leg and was off work on full pay for 6 months and then returned to work.  Someone asked a close friend of hers "was she better" and the reply was that she couldn't afford to be on the sick as she would then be on half pay.   
Another time when someone on another section returned back to work after yet having another day off on the sick, they asked me to sign their back to work form
I had a look through their sick record and noticed that they only had  one day's sick leave each time and by coincidence every sick day was on a Friday.    I refused and pointed out that they seemed to have Fridayitis and asked them to discuss it with their line manager who was coming in the following day.

It's the same old story about the small minority spoiling it for the rest but in this case it's the vulnerable and needy who lose out most
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Fester on August 21, 2017, 03:15:23 PM
'All the evidence shows that an unhappy workforces isn't a productive workforce'

I'm not so sure Ian.
You see the Egyptians and Romans used loads of slaves and worked them to death.
I assume they weren't happy, but they produced some pretty cool stuff!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on August 21, 2017, 03:19:34 PM
Probably a fairly high attrition rate from things like death, though...  :(
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: born2run on August 21, 2017, 03:58:59 PM
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My Wife doesn't get any sick leave at all, unless signed off by the Doctor. I think this is as much a cause for concern as people abusing the sick leave they are given. People going to work ill, especially those who look after children/old people etc is a very real danger.

That is also why I don't agree with Hugo's idea that incentive's to come to work are a good idea either.

I think this 'Sickness Emperor' will do more harm than good.

BTR you've hit the nail on the head and that is exactly what I've said.    National Government and Local Government employees are protected with regard to sick leave and I take it by your wife's example that she doesn't work for local or national government.
In outside industry they don't have the sort of protection for genuine sick absences as they do in national and local government and it should be addressed.

However  I think that the CCBC do not need to have a well paid additional person in to monitor sick leave, that is their line manager's job,  no one else's and if they are not doing it properly then they should be held accountable for it.
The line manager should be able to determine the genuine cases from those that are not and should be looking for patterns in someone's sick absences.   That's not just to get rid of people but to see if there are any underlying problems that the line manager can help them with.

Many years ago when I first started work I had to record the sick leave of a staff of about 30 people, roughly divided as 15 men and 15 women.   When I checked them at the end of the year 3 women each had over 20 days sick leave and the aggregate total of sick leave for all the men came to less than 20 days.   This isn't a sexist remark it is just a fact based on the figures I had obtained, yet to the best of my knowledge and belief this was never looked into and continued until the office closed.

I can quote many examples, for instance a person broke their leg and was off work on full pay for 6 months and then returned to work.  Someone asked a close friend of hers "was she better" and the reply was that she couldn't afford to be on the sick as she would then be on half pay.   
Another time when someone on another section returned back to work after yet having another day off on the sick, they asked me to sign their back to work form
I had a look through their sick record and noticed that they only had  one day's sick leave each time and by coincidence every sick day was on a Friday.    I refused and pointed out that they seemed to have Fridayitis and asked them to discuss it with their line manager who was coming in the following day.

It's the same old story about the small minority spoiling it for the rest but in this case it's the vulnerable and needy who lose out most

We both work in the private sector. Although my sickness benefits are a lot better than hers, which again is wrong as she has an active job and directly cares for individuals and my job is entirely sedentary, and I care for nobody but myself!

If she is ill tomorrow she can either go to work and put herself and others at risk or stay home and lose a day's pay. If I'm ill I can go to work and have a quiet day sitting in my office or stay home and get full pay.

There's definitely something wrong with the system somewhere!
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Hugo on August 21, 2017, 06:04:50 PM
I'm only guessing BTR but I presume that your wife is in employment where they operate SSP and if that is the case them there are millions of others in the same system.

Of course it's not fair to the genuine people on sick leave but in your negotiating job you will be able to see the other side of the coin and that is from the employer's point of view.    Is it fair for the employer to pay someone's wages when they are not able to work due to sickness or otherwise?

If you're honest you'll know the answer, but this thread is specifically about CCBC and the decision to employ someone to sort out the problem with sick leave.    It's not necessary to employ someone if you already have good line managers who can sort out the genuine cases from  those that spoil it for others.

It is not as easy to dismiss people as we are lead to believe, but there are guidelines that if followed correctly can result in dismissal of staff on grounds of inefficiency
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Fester on August 21, 2017, 07:38:44 PM
Funny you should say that B2R, because only today my wife was ill. 

She was so ill that I was forced to physically help her into the kitchen, so she could get on with my breakfast, and then I needed to almost prop her up whilst she cracked on with the washing and ironing.

 &shake&

Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: born2run on August 22, 2017, 10:00:50 AM
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I'm only guessing BTR but I presume that your wife is in employment where they operate SSP and if that is the case them there are millions of others in the same system.

Of course it's not fair to the genuine people on sick leave but in your negotiating job you will be able to see the other side of the coin and that is from the employer's point of view.    Is it fair for the employer to pay someone's wages when they are not able to work due to sickness or otherwise?

If you're honest you'll know the answer, but this thread is specifically about CCBC and the decision to employ someone to sort out the problem with sick leave.    It's not necessary to employ someone if you already have good line managers who can sort out the genuine cases from  those that spoil it for others.

It is not as easy to dismiss people as we are lead to believe, but there are guidelines that if followed correctly can result in dismissal of staff on grounds of inefficiency

Yes SSP. Where you don't get paid for the first three days but do from the fourth day onwards.
Now if you ask me that encourages people to take longer off sick - in my experience most bugs last about 48 hours. How is this good for employers?

If an employee can't sustain a business as well as pay adequate sick leave then that business is not financially viable.Someone in management or the business owner is doing something wrong and it's not the workers who should suffer because of it.

Now as for the councils - I agree a line manager is paid to do that job they shouldn't be employing someone to specifically tackle that part of the job.

In my own experience - this is purely anecdotal. I've found a lot of 'managers' in the councils are scared and intimidated by their workers to the effect they can't manage them.



Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Hugo on August 22, 2017, 11:10:24 AM
I agree that there is unfairness with the private system but in the public sector the employees are able to do a self certificated sick absence form for up to 7 days  so in effect they are prescribing and writing their own sick note  for that period and that's where part of the problem lies.

The other part is the weak management,  why on earth are they in that job?    Questions should be asked about them as everyone is accountable to someone.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Fester on August 23, 2017, 12:18:32 PM
'Weak Management' Hugo,  that's the only type there is these days.
Sadly, and manager who tries to tackle a thorny issue these days is likely to get slapped with a charge of bullying.

The word Manager doesn't fit well with most roles these days, because it is used glibly, and usually the person with the title is not responsible for any staff.

I'm aware that the 'manager' of one of the larger bars in Llandudno was only paid minimum wage, so he left after 3 months..... and it's now being 'managed' by a lad of 18 !
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: born2run on August 23, 2017, 12:31:13 PM
Incompetent NW Police!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4815828/Police-search-missing-family-HOLIDAY.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4815828/Police-search-missing-family-HOLIDAY.html)

 _))*
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Bosun on August 23, 2017, 01:54:50 PM
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Incompetent NW Police!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4815828/Police-search-missing-family-HOLIDAY.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4815828/Police-search-missing-family-HOLIDAY.html)

 _))*

B2R quotes from his favourite truthful and reliable media source.....

So, the Police are contacted by someone extremely concerned about being a family that appears to have gone missing. The Police make enquires to locate them to ensure that they are safe and well.

That's incompetence?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: born2run on August 23, 2017, 02:01:09 PM
Yes.

Otherwise every family that ever goes on holiday would have an appeal put out for their whereabouts!

There are a 101 other things the police could have done to find out where they were without launching a public facebook appeal. Lazy and incompetent and not for the first time  &shake&
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Bosun on August 23, 2017, 02:10:51 PM
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Yes.

Otherwise every family that ever goes on holiday would have an appeal put out for their whereabouts!

There are a 101 other things the police could have done to find out where they were without launching a public facebook appeal. Lazy and incompetent and not for the first time  &shake&

Congratulations. The winner of the Idiot Post of the Year Award.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on August 23, 2017, 02:15:39 PM
There are some questions over this. Why were the Police looking for them in the first instance? The headline states "Nicole Rowlands, 43, and her husband David, 46, were being sought by police". That was later modified on FB, but still...
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SDQ on August 23, 2017, 02:18:33 PM
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Yes.

Otherwise every family that ever goes on holiday would have an appeal put out for their whereabouts!

There are a 101 other things the police could have done to find out where they were without launching a public facebook appeal. Lazy and incompetent and not for the first time  &shake&


The police were only doing their job, they must have acted after someone reported them missing.
As for incompetence, that goes to that rag advertising that these people are away from their home, I hope they don't get burgled before they return.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: born2run on August 23, 2017, 03:05:23 PM
There are sensible ways to act and there are silly ways. This was silly and way over the top.

Before launching a public appeal don't you think it would have been prudent to have sought friends and relatives and ask for their whereabouts?

Prudent to enquire at their places off work or their Children's schools to see if they know whY they have been 'missing'

If they would have done that they would have found out they were on holiday.

Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: born2run on August 23, 2017, 03:15:06 PM
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Yes.

Otherwise every family that ever goes on holiday would have an appeal put out for their whereabouts!

There are a 101 other things the police could have done to find out where they were without launching a public facebook appeal. Lazy and incompetent and not for the first time  &shake&

Congratulations. The winner of the Idiot Post of the Year Award.

If facebook didn't exist like it didn't 20 years ago.
Do you think they would have run straight to the TV and the newspapers without doing any prior research?
No, but because it's quick and easy to send a FB post they opted for that instead of doing some work.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Fester on August 23, 2017, 03:16:03 PM
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There are sensible ways to act and there are silly ways. This was silly and way over the top.

Before launching a public appeal don't you think it would have been prudent to have sought friends and relatives and ask for their whereabouts?

Prudent to enquire at their places off work or their Children's schools to see if they know whY they have been 'missing'

If they would have done that they would have found out they were on holiday.

Schools are shut at the moment mate, in case you haven't noticed.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: born2run on August 23, 2017, 03:40:10 PM
Good point -  :o  with those observation skills you'd make head of NWP in a matter of weeks $good$
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Bosun on August 23, 2017, 04:32:07 PM
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There are sensible ways to act and there are silly ways. This was silly and way over the top.

Before launching a public appeal don't you think it would have been prudent to have sought friends and relatives and ask for their whereabouts?

Prudent to enquire at their places off work or their Children's schools to see if they know whY they have been 'missing'

If they would have done that they would have found out they were on holiday.

From a pantomath, who is now an expert on Policing.

Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: born2run on August 23, 2017, 04:42:08 PM
You don't need to be an expert or a know it all it's called common sense.

I found this passage in the 'idiots guide to policing'

A member of the public reports than an entire family haven't been seen for some days

do you

A) Immediately set up a missing person case launching an urgent appeal on facebook alerting members of the public to the missing family's plight

B) Find out where one of them works, get their contact details from their workplace and give them a ring to see where they are!

If you picked A congratulations you have passed!

Next test......What to do when a Dog runs on a Motorway.  ;D

Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Bosun on August 23, 2017, 05:06:11 PM
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You don't need to be an expert or a know it all it's called common sense.

I found this passage in the 'idiots guide to policing'

A member of the public reports than an entire family haven't been seen for some days

do you

A) Immediately set up a missing person case launching an urgent appeal on facebook alerting members of the public to the missing family's plight

B) Find out where one of them works, get their contact details from their workplace and give them a ring to see where they are!

If you picked A congratulations you have passed!

Next test......What to do when a Dog runs on a Motorway.  ;D

That's a surprise, you having an idiots guide......
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Hugo on September 29, 2017, 08:39:27 AM
It's an interesting article about the two beaches but it should have been done before the damage was done to them.


https://newsdesk.moreover.com/click/?p=Q1QyL2E9MzE5ODQ5MzkwNDYmcD0xNGUmdj0xJng9V1lPbHpyMDBsZzNPVG40VElpQmRiUSZ1MT1ORCZ1Mj1nMTEwOA&a=31984939046&f=TmV3cw&s=ZXhwb3J0&u=ZXIubmV3bWVkaWFAYmJjLmNvLnVr&cn=QkJDIE5FV1MgT05MSU5F&ci=334&i=283&e=Tm9ydGggV2FsZXMgRGFpbHkgUG9zdA&d=685&t=3&k=36145&fi=119597&ac=&ck=bfe2f78fb92ffc5b1a4f30bf84dfbc30
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on September 29, 2017, 08:58:26 AM
The old Llandudno Heritage Trust commissioned a detailed report back in 1992, which had several detailed recommendations. But the amount of petty bickering, in-fighting and malicious activity among the town councillors of all parties ensured nothing came of it. However, one excellent example is Miami, which has very similar problems. They used the US corps of engineers to dump billions of tons of sand on the beach. 

The North Shore beach issue is interesting, partly because I doubt many councillors even barely comprehend it.

Facts: 1. Sea levels are rising, although extremely slowly.
2. The West and North West of the UK land mass is also rising, something a lot of folk don't know.
3. The North shore is protected by the current prevailing wind systems. 
4. To stop potential storm damage the beach levels need raising. Millions of tons of sand would accomplish that just as well as dumping the absurd shingle.

So a sand restoration project would seem the sensible option. It would have to be ongoing. The EU would give generous grants for that...
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Fester on September 29, 2017, 09:55:37 AM
Why is sand restoration a good option, if it's only as good as the shingle?... and the shingle is already there?
It sounds like massive expense for no benefit to me.

I'll say again, insufficient numbers of people use the bit of beach we have to justify any more expansion of it.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Hugo on September 29, 2017, 11:39:58 AM
I suspect that the Councillors did not fully understand what they were voting for when they agreed to the sea defences at West Shore and the North Shore. I would imagine that they were persuaded to go for the cheap quick fix option rather than a more suitable but more expensive one.

They have made serious mistakes with both beaches but unfortunately they are not accountable for their actions and don't seem to have learnt anything from their past mistakes.     I wouldn't call the stuff that they have put on the North Shore as shingle,  the contractors call it cobbles and there is a load of it on the beach.   Others just call it an eyesore but whatever happens to it, the blame lies with the CCBC
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on September 29, 2017, 11:48:19 AM
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Why is sand restoration a good option, if it's only as good as the shingle?... and the shingle is already there?
I'll say again, insufficient numbers of people use the bit of beach we have to justify any more expansion of it.

I think it's a 'build it and they will come' option, F; it's highly likely that the publicity regarding the parlous state of most of the beach has resulted in comparatively few trippers - plus this season hasn't been the best, weather-wise.  But a hot summer and a fantastic sandy beach might prove a draw.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on September 29, 2017, 11:52:31 AM
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I suspect that the Councillors did not fully understand what they were voting for...

Nothing new there, then...
Quote
They have made serious mistakes with both beaches but unfortunately they are not accountable for their actions and don't seem to have learnt anything from their past mistakes.     I wouldn't call the stuff that they have put on the North Shore as shingle,  the contractors call it cobbles and there is a load of it on the beach.   Others just call it an eyesore but whatever happens to it, the blame lies with the CCBC

Yes - and technically they are accountable through the ballot box. I suspect, however, the options were presented in such a way as to leave little room for the sand alternative. It's a standard technique in the civil service: present three possible choices, two of which are completely untenable.

"Well, we can spread shingle, or we could concrete it all over..."
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: DaveR on September 29, 2017, 12:02:20 PM
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Why is sand restoration a good option, if it's only as good as the shingle?... and the shingle is already there?
I'll say again, insufficient numbers of people use the bit of beach we have to justify any more expansion of it.

I think it's a 'build it and they will come' option, F; it's highly likely that the publicity regarding the parlous state of most of the beach has resulted in comparatively few trippers - plus this season hasn't been the best, weather-wise.  But a hot summer and a fantastic sandy beach might prove a draw.
I agree. Who, at present, would visit Llandudno for a day on a sandy beach? A decent beach would be a significant draw for the town, I think....and make it look far more attractive in publicity photos!  $good$
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Blongb on October 02, 2017, 04:00:17 PM
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Why is sand restoration a good option, if it's only as good as the shingle?... and the shingle is already there?
It sounds like massive expense for no benefit to me.

I'll say again, insufficient numbers of people use the bit of beach we have to justify any more expansion of it.



As I said to Dave R point earlier, I don't think by any stretch of the imagination you can describe what was dumped on the North Shore as shingle. Rubble or Quarry debris would be a far better description. You can't walk on it and the Beach below it is empty because of it's inaccessibility. When you take into account the size of the Councils budget its cheap at half the price.  $sunny$
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on October 03, 2017, 04:02:07 PM
I can't see how it could cost that. There are four elements:  Heavy machinery to bulldoze up the rubble deposited.  Disposal of rubble. Sourcing sand - almost certainly from dredged sand in the Mersey. Heavy vehicles to dump and level sand.  Another way is simply to sail dredging barges as close inshore as possible and use the giant suck and blow systems they have to spread freshly hoovered sand onto the beach.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on October 03, 2017, 05:34:22 PM
Although replacing the rocks with sand will give us a beach, I am not sure how it works as a flood defense.... ? ?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on October 04, 2017, 09:14:36 AM
Where it's been done around the world it's worked very well.  It does. however, have to be done properly.  It's no good simply piling sand where they've currently piled the rubble; there has to be enough sand - which should merge seamlessly with the promenade tarmac in terms of level - to provide a gentle incline towards the sea. So probably around a distance of a hundred metres.  In the drier periods windblown sand shouldn't be the problem it is at West shore for obvious reasons.


Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on October 04, 2017, 01:25:44 PM
I agree up to a point Ian, but the majority of sand coastal defense systems, are constantly having work done, some annually, with costs being in the millions, if we take away the cobbles and replace with sand, and that disappears, we are left without either a beach or flood defense, I think a better option would be leave the cobbles in place, and slope down from there, it would be more cost effective and safer, and with some smaller shale on top of the cobbles, for easier movement, I know we would still have the costs of future sand works, for aesthetic reasons, but the flood defense would still be in place. 

Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on October 04, 2017, 02:06:36 PM
I remember the flood defence issue was far from simple: there are two threats - torrential rain and rising sea levels.  The beach treatment was for the latter (obviously) but it was sparked because of anticipated sea level rises and an increase in Northerly gales.

Llandudno is rising, albeit slowly, and Northerly gales remain a rarity, although they will happen, of course. It needs a fluid dynamics specialist to answer the question fully, but given Llandudno's exposure, overall risk and the stability of sand given adequate groynes perhaps it would be worth doing? Certainly, Rhos' experience does show how a North-facing aspect doesn't deter sand aggregation, given detailed consideration to groynes and the like.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on October 04, 2017, 02:33:57 PM
The big worry is that CCBC will muck it up again, with us paying as usual, but hopefully they will keep us informed this time.
I still like my idea, but I realise it would still require groynes etc, .....not sure if your Rhos example equates to Llandudno's problem, unless a larger version of their wall was considered, it certainly worked for them, and although expensive, appears to have been a one-off expense.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on October 04, 2017, 03:10:12 PM
I know what you mean, Steve, but the Rhos concept could be repeated, perhaps by creating an artificial island in the bay. Bound to be some major building projects just looking to dump a few thousand tons of rock and soil, and the only expense would be chartering barges to carry the stuff and dump it.

Point is whatever is done is going to cost money and, frankly, I doubt the current rubble would offer that much of a defence - if any - against a Northerly storm.  And an artificial island could become quite a tourist attraction in its own right.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on October 04, 2017, 03:22:53 PM
Great idea, ........ Tudno Castle springs to mind.  ;)     or the tidal lagoon mentioned last year.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: squigglev2 on October 04, 2017, 04:08:56 PM
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by creating an artificial island in the bay.
Hmm, long out of the area but a great view of Llanudno is from the Elephant's cave type area where you get the look of the (OK I believe itself a bit sculpted years ago) sandy (or it was…) bay, the curve and to the Little Orme.  A bump in the middle?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on October 06, 2017, 09:53:01 AM
The £13 million, quoted previously for the North shore sand replacement, now appears could reach the £50 million mark.

http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/home/2017/10/04/gallery/sand-could-return-to-north-shore-in-llandudno-under-new-million-pound-plan-96575/ (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/home/2017/10/04/gallery/sand-could-return-to-north-shore-in-llandudno-under-new-million-pound-plan-96575/)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on October 06, 2017, 10:08:34 AM
I loved this bit:

"Conwy Council's environment, road and facilities department will seek funding from Welsh Government, through its coastal risk management programme, to commission a consultant to produce an outline business case for the options considered within the BMP:

Talk about decisive action...   L0L
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on October 06, 2017, 10:24:16 AM
Ian, you named this thread "Incompetence" but it's just clicked, this in the norm, why should we expect anything else.  &shake&
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on October 06, 2017, 11:45:27 AM
I know...  I just keep on hoping, despite all evidence to the contrary, that the severely limited intellectual capacity of our elected representatives shouldn't be strained to deal with matters of importance. Pot holes and bin collections - yes, but anything else - such as statements regarding child protection in swimming pools or remotely technical issues such as wind and sand - best leave that to those who can do their 7x tables...
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on November 12, 2017, 06:13:26 PM
The Daily Post has picked up on the fact that Llandudno has no Sunday Train service (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/lack-any-sunday-train-service-13887653#ICID=sharebar_twitter). In a masterful observation Cllr Philip Evans (Conwy council’s representative on the Conwy Valley Railway Liaison Group, Transport Advisory Forum and West Coast Rail 250) gave what must qualify as the understatement of the year with regard to our councillors:

"A lack of foresight when the current franchise was let meant that increased demand was not taken into account."

Seems that particular skill permeates most council decisions.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: DaveR on November 13, 2017, 12:06:11 PM
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The Daily Post has picked up on the fact that Llandudno has no Sunday Train service (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/lack-any-sunday-train-service-13887653#ICID=sharebar_twitter). In a masterful observation Cllr Philip Evans (Conwy council’s representative on the Conwy Valley Railway Liaison Group, Transport Advisory Forum and West Coast Rail 250) gave what must qualify as the understatement of the year with regard to our councillors:

"A lack of foresight when the current franchise was let meant that increased demand was not taken into account."

Seems that particular skill permeates most council decisions.
To be fair, the franchise decision was not taken locally, or even in Wales, IIRC. Usage of the railway network is now at all all-time high and consideration need to be given to establishing a regular service to Llandudno on Sundays all year round.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on November 13, 2017, 01:27:12 PM
But presumably the Conwy Valley Railway Liaison Group, Transport Advisory Forum and West Coast Rail 250 must have made strong representations at the time, which would be a matter of record?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: DaveR on November 14, 2017, 08:55:23 AM
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But presumably the Conwy Valley Railway Liaison Group, Transport Advisory Forum and West Coast Rail 250 must have made strong representations at the time, which would be a matter of record?
Quite possibly, but i doubt the Strategic Rail Authority (who were responsible for awarding the franchise back in 2001) were remotely bothered about what they thought (sadly). I doubt this London based quango even knew where Llandudno was, much less had any interest in it.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on November 14, 2017, 02:08:20 PM
There are few things as convoluted as Parliamentary records, but having a spare 90 minutes I've managed to find the records for the franchise, the committee involved, the membership of that committee and the reasons why the franchise was awarded. You can almost certainly place most of the problems firmly at the door of the egregious Thatcher, but I digress.

The process started in March 2000 under the  auspices of the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs. then in its third term.  Interestingly, those who manned the committee were exclusively representing Welsh constituencies, so "this London based quango" was certainly responsible to the Welsh voter through the simple fact that they were Welsh MPs. And, as a select committee, it wasn't actually a quango.

It took until October 2003 to award the franchise and the criteria applied to prospective bidders was fairly stringent:

    "provide, at a reasonably early stage, clear information on the scope of the specification that will be acceptable. This scope will be determined primarily by the availability of funding, taking into account the Authority's overall priorities for its budget; and

    "Where a new or replacement franchise is likely to require improvements to the existing railway infrastructure, the Authority should specify how those improvements are to be reflected in the franchise proposals"

within these parameters determined by the Strategic Rail Authority:

affordability and value for money;

the commitment of existing franchise operators to safety, performance, customer services, personal security, innovation, investment and efficiency;

the extent to which investment can be obtained;

the extent to which better performance can be secured;

the wider social and economic benefits, including from road decongestion, and environmental impact of proposals;

compatibility and consistency with local transport plans and regional transport strategies;

the extent to which integrated transport measures both within the rail network and between rail and other transport modes can be achieved, including integrated public transport information systems; this should seek to include better and safer interchange at and access to stations by local public transport, by car, cycle and on foot and by passengers with disabilities;

the extent to which proposals will seek to improve the complete door-to-door journey experience;

the extent to which passengers will be given a greater voice in the level and standard of services;

the extent to which station facilities such as signage, information, waiting rooms, ticket offices and secure parking can be improved, and accreditation obtained under the Secure Stations initiative;

impact, if any, on existing or potential freight services".

There are 162 paragraphs in the original report, much written in officialese and somewhat impenetrable, plus the use of an overly complicated scoring system to analyse the various bids mitigated against a transparent process.  However, the process was further complicated by the need to use English hubs to facilitate the proposed timetables and - in the long run - it came down to two factors:

1. The Tory decimation of the railways in 1963 - 69 leaving absurdly little spare capacity
2. Lack of funds being made available to subsidise what should have been a commercial service.  Yes - Thatcher was all about selling off state owned assets (which was - in fact-  criminal) and under the Conservative Thatcher government and that of her immediate successor, Major, various state-owned businesses were sold off, including various functions related to the railways – Sealink ferries and British Transport Hotels by 1984, Travellers Fare catering by 1988 and British Rail Engineering (train building) by 1989 and finally the railways themselves in 1993.  However, the governments have always had to subsidise the successful bidder, in effect paying them to run the service for which they 'won' the bidding, which does go to show just how wonderful capitalism is.

However, it's clear that failing to run Sunday services is a clear infraction of at least three fo the criteria specified above, so the question becomes why this has not been addressed.

One big problem is that local councillors fail to think big. They all tend to shrug their collective shoulders and say that nothing can be done quickly, but that's simply not true.  The Government - any Government - responds to potential bad press and perceived voter irritation, so doing things by the book rarely works.  To get results, much more direct action is needed by councillors, AMs and other interested parties. Otherwise, we get the services we deserve.


Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on December 13, 2017, 10:04:27 AM
Outrage after council charges almost £900 for just TWO new dog poo bins
Conwy Council has been accused of 'profiteering' from the work to replace the containers, which each cost around £144.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/outrage-council-dog-poo-bin-14030329 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/outrage-council-dog-poo-bin-14030329)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on January 18, 2018, 08:34:51 AM
'Show up or we'll show you up' - Councillors who fail to attend meetings could be named and shamed
In December only 10 out of 20 councillors turned up for a meeting at one North Wales town council, Llandudno

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/show-up-well-show-you-14168694 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/show-up-well-show-you-14168694)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on March 09, 2018, 02:29:29 PM
Cash-strapped council's cabinet in line for pay rise
Conwy council's top team of nine likely to see their allowances go up by more than £3000 each


Conwy council's Democratic Services committee will look at possible pay rises for its nine cabinet members that would see their pay go from £26,200 to £29,300.
On Monday the council will look at a report from the Independent Remuneration Panel for Wales, which also proposes a 1.49% increase to councillors' basic allowance - an increase of £200.

As well as pay increases in their basic pay, chairs of committees could be in line for an increase.

The council recently hit the headlines after agreeing to bring in bin collections on a once every four week basis and proposing a 5% council tax rise.

Some councillors said they were firmly against the increases when the council is facing cuts in other areas of its services.

Cllr Aaron Wynne said: "Why should councillors enjoy a pay rise when the rest of the public sector have pay caps?

"That includes the 1.5% increase basic allowance for councillors which is more than the vast majority of public sector workers will get. How is it right that the councillors making the cuts would be getting a pay rise."

Cllr Adrian Tansley said: "I think that if Conwy is trying to save money the last thing that should be done is to be giving a pay rise to councillors. If we are cutting services like social services why should we be giving out pay rises."
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/cash-strapped-councils-cabinet-line-1438929 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/cash-strapped-councils-cabinet-line-1438929)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on March 09, 2018, 02:52:30 PM
Can we get hold of the list of those councillors who voted for the rises? We can publish them on here.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: squigglev2 on March 09, 2018, 04:55:03 PM
Council pay rises coupled with cuts don't seem that uncommon.  From Norfolk.

County councillors have stood by their decision to award themselves an 11% pay rise, despite claims it is "obscene" at a time when the authority is planning £125m of cuts to services.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-42608033 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-42608033)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on March 09, 2018, 08:03:30 PM
You can't compare Conwy with an English area; English councils weren't allowed to raise Council tax for several years. Conwy has risen year on year.

It's perhaps instructive to examine how these raises came to be.

The amusingly named Independent Remuneration Panel for Wales (IRPW) sets the levels.  They're supposed to be independent, but almost all of the members have been councillors, so not too much independence, then.

To determine the levels is an interesting process: "]In 2017 Panel members continued the practice of visiting all Welsh principal councils to meet with elected members to inform and update understanding of their activities. The WLGA Exit Survey of members who stood down in 2017 has also been considered.
The general view from members and officers is that the workload has increased and most claimed that it was far in excess of 3 days."

So they don't talk to the people paying the raises - the taxpayers.  No, they talk directly to those who will benefit from them. Those people - surprisingly - said they were overworked and underpaid.  And that was accepted as a good reason for increasing the payments?

It gets more fun.

"The Panel originally determined in its Annual Report 2009 that payment of the basic salary would be aligned to the median gross earnings of all full-time employees resident in Wales as reported in the Annual Survey of Hourly Earnings (ASHE).  Given the pressures on public expenditure it has not been possible for this alignment to be maintained.  If this alignment had continued the basic salary would currently be significantly higher than the current prescribed amount, (close to £15,000 pa).  This is calculated on an assumption that the basic activity required of an elected member (i.e. without the additional work required for a senior salary) is equivalent to three days’ work."

So just to get this clear: in 2009 - 9 years ago - they thought paying someone to do a job the equivalent of £27,5000 per year, and moreover a job for which no qualifications were required, no training, no experience, no skills and for which there were numerous applicants was a good idea? Truly, the independent voice of reason.

So, presumably, the panel examines a truly independent scale, such as either the CPI or the RPI? Nothing so simple.

"When making financial determinations for this Annual Report, the Panel has considered the progression of a variety of benchmark figures for the period from 2010 to 2017.  As well as the ASHE median gross earnings figures for Wales, the Panel also considered the Retail Price Index, the Consumer Price Index, NJC Pay Scales and Living Wage figures.  It is noted that these figures show clear increases in the cost of living and earnings."

Well, they would, wouldn't they? The RPI and the CPI rise every year, but most salaries have stayed low, so the government tweaked the LW so that the lowest earners would at least be able to eat. Sometimes. £27,5000 a year isn't the lowest earner.  But that seems to have escaped the worthies on the IRPW.

More fun follows, however:

"The recent visits and discussions with members and officers did not change this conclusion. In fact many executive members indicated that their workload has  increased."

Poor dears.   Now the cabinet say they're all working harder. Can anyone, in their wildest dreams, imagine any councillor or cabinet members saying things were easier? That's about as likely as Donald Trump telling the truth.

But the real kicker is in one of their final paragraphs:

"The Panel’s previous determinations contained flexibility for each council to decide the appropriate range of portfolios to meet local needs and adjust payments within the Executive to reflect responsibility."

So originally the pay scales were more recommendations, but councils could choose not to implement them in full.

"As a result of the strong views expressed during the visits that the Panel should be prescriptive in respect of the salaries of executive members this provision has been amended.  Consequently there will be one salary level within .each population group"

Anyone want to bet whose the "strong views expressed" were, saying the IRPW should make the raises compulsory for all, and not leave it the councillors to decide, who would then have to answer to their voters?

When you investigate the make up and methodology of committees like IRPW and Councils one thing becomes blindly obvious: it's always going to be rigged to favour the councils.  Oh, and we - don't forget - also pay the panel members on the IRPW.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on March 09, 2018, 09:58:52 PM
Don't think I can stand anymore "FUN"........  Nice research, Ian.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on March 10, 2018, 08:21:10 AM
Thanks.  They do make it difficult, however. Phrases such as "payment of the basic salary would be aligned to the median gross earnings of all full-time employees resident in Wales as reported in the Annual Survey of Hourly Earnings (ASHE)." leave you wondering exactly what that means. There are a lot of questions that need to be asked, I suspect.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Fester on March 10, 2018, 11:57:20 PM
.... and you wonder why I despise politicians, and given the Brexit and US election debacles, it seems millions of others are following suit.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on March 12, 2018, 06:31:11 PM
Councillors complain they're being forced to accept pay rise         

Members of Conwy council say they're disappointed recommendation wasn't to pay a smaller increase on allowances.

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/conwy-councillors-pay-rise-complain-14401565 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/conwy-councillors-pay-rise-complain-14401565)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on March 12, 2018, 06:57:06 PM
Quote
In the last two years Conwy's councillors had accepted a lower rate of pay than every other council in Wales but the IRPW did not give them that option this time.

That's right, because
Quote
As a result of the strong views expressed during the visits that the Panel should be prescriptive in respect of the salaries of executive members this provision has been amended."

In effect, those to whom the panel spoke said "Please force it on us.  If you don't then we'll have to accept a lower rise...

Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on March 12, 2018, 07:15:26 PM
To be fair this is a small increase (£200) compared to the cabinet members rise of £3,000, but, the system is still at fault.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on March 12, 2018, 07:16:45 PM
Ah - that's only the basic salary increase. The big increases are - as you say - for the Executive levels - the Cabinet. And want to bet who the Panel spoke to when they did their tour?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Fester on March 13, 2018, 12:40:02 AM
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To be fair this is a small increase (£200) compared to the cabinet members rise of £3,000, but, the system is still at fault.

I’m in the wrong job.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on March 22, 2018, 10:13:57 AM
UK passports 'to be made in France after Brexit'.

The new UK passport to be issued after Brexit will be made in France, according to the current British manufacturer.
The current burgundy passport, in use since 1988, will revert to its original blue and gold colour from October 2019.
The boss of UK supplier De La Rue told the BBC that Franco-Dutch firm Gemalto had won the £490m contract.

Culture Secretary Matthew Hancock said a final decision had not been made.
However, the Home Office said passports did not have to be made in the UK and some blank covers were already made overseas.

De la Rue boss Martin Sutherland told the BBC's Today programme: "Over the last few months we have heard ministers happy to come on and talk about the new blue passport and the fact that it is an icon of British identity.
"But now this icon of British identity is going to be manufactured in France."

He added: "I'd like to ask Theresa May or Amber Rudd to come to my factory and explain to our dedicated workforce why this is a sensible decision to offshore the manufacture of a British icon."

Mr Sutherland said it was unclear whether jobs at the firm's Gateshead factory would be affected. De la Rue employed more than 600 staff at the site last year.

The company issued a profit warning on Tuesday, which triggered a sharp fall in its share price.
On Thursday morning, the shares were down by a further 5.7%.

"And to add insult to injury, we will pay over the odds for them because the value of the pound has fallen since Brexit and they will have to be imported."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43489462 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43489462)



Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Dave on March 22, 2018, 04:40:16 PM
 Is all this fuss because it's a passport? No one is shouting about buying German cars, French wine,Spanish Chorizo,Greek feta or Italian clothes.All of those products have alternatives that have been made in the UK but we don't buy them if they are too expensive.No matter what the drop in the value of the pound, the reason the contract is going abroad is because it's cheaper...£50m was quoted.
So, we draw the line at a passport do we but don't care about everything else we import .What is different about a little book with a photo in it?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on March 23, 2018, 05:26:06 PM
Dave, I understand what you are saying, but it makes me wince every time I here of manufacturing contracts being given to non UK companies, I am still back in the days of "Buy British".

Reading today's Guardian I learned that although a French company, the passports will be made in the UK, and a figure of £120m cheaper ? also creating 70 more jobs.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/22/contract-to-print-uk-passports-abroad-will-save-120m (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/22/contract-to-print-uk-passports-abroad-will-save-120m)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on April 13, 2018, 03:19:55 PM
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Councillors complain they're being forced to accept pay rise         
Members of Conwy council say they're disappointed recommendation wasn't to pay a smaller increase on allowances.
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/conwy-councillors-pay-rise-complain-14401565 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/conwy-councillors-pay-rise-complain-14401565)

Chair of cash-strapped council set to get pay rise worth thousands (and all the councillors' salaries are going up too)
A meeting of Gwynedd council’s democratic services committee recommended the change.

The ceremonial head of a cash-strapped council is set to be given a £2,500 pay rise just weeks after a decision to shut the county’s youth clubs.

A meeting of Gwynedd council’s democratic services committee today recommended that the council chair should see their pay upgraded to “band 1” status.

The role - known in some areas as the county mayor - changes hands every 12 months and involves presiding over full council meetings and representing the authority at various functions in a civic capacity.

The committee’s findings come just a month after the authority decided to introduce a new youth service model, which will see all 39 existing youth clubs replaced by a single county-wide offering in a bid to save £270,000.
&shake&

13 comments...
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/gwynedd-council-pay-rise-chair-14524343 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/gwynedd-council-pay-rise-chair-14524343)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Hugo on April 16, 2018, 01:59:43 PM
A lot of publicity was in the papers at the end of last year about the DVLA having a blitz on motorists who drive when they have no road tax on their vehicle but I'm not convinced and think that it's just a bluff.
They know from their records who is offending so enforcement should be a simple exercise.    I did write to them under the FOI Act and requested specific details of  their enforcement methods.
They refused to supply them on the grounds that it may help motorists to default on paying their road tax and I can accept that to a certain extent, but find it annoying when I know of people who haven't paid road tax for 6 months but still drive on a daily basis
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Fester on April 16, 2018, 08:05:37 PM
Their insurance is invalid though Hugo, if they care?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Hugo on April 16, 2018, 10:37:34 PM
It's a strange one that Fester because I've been reading about this type of thing and people have said that the insurance is not automatically invalid if they do not have road tax.
That seems strange to me and I don't think that any Insurance company would pay out on a claim when the car was driven illegally with no road tax, that's just a nonsense to me.
I still think that something is up at the DVLA  Office in Swansea and it's either staff shortages or a risk management policy but either way it's not fair to the majority of honest motorists.
Enforcement of unpaid road tax couldn't be easier but for some reason there is a breakdown in carrying it out.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on April 18, 2018, 12:13:27 PM
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It's a strange one that Fester because I've been reading about this type of thing and people have said that the insurance is not automatically invalid if they do not have road tax.
That seems strange to me and I don't think that any Insurance company would pay out on a claim when the car was driven illegally with no road tax, that's just a nonsense to me.
I still think that something is up at the DVLA  Office in Swansea and it's either staff shortages or a risk management policy but either way it's not fair to the majority of honest motorists.
Enforcement of unpaid road tax couldn't be easier but for some reason there is a breakdown in carrying it out.

I think it is divided, if you get stopped by the Police, they will give you FPN plus a date by which you must obtain your MOT,
as far as insurers are concerned I think this link explains it more.......

https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/no-mot-invalid-insurance.html (https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/no-mot-invalid-insurance.html)
 
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on April 18, 2018, 02:21:20 PM
test 
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: alw on April 22, 2018, 10:25:10 PM
Conwy CBC have had yet another wonderful idea.

The Forest School in the centre of Eirias Park is about to close and much thought has been put into deciding what new use will bring the most benefit to the park.

The decision is in - they are going to convert the building into offices, which then will be leased to the Welsh Ambulance Service.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: DaveR on April 23, 2018, 08:32:13 AM
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Conwy CBC have had yet another wonderful idea.

The Forest School in the centre of Eirias Park is about to close and much thought has been put into deciding what new use will bring the most benefit to the park.

The decision is in - they are going to convert the building into offices, which then will be leased to the Welsh Ambulance Service.
Hmmm...the very same 'Forest School' that CCBC spent a fortune on and has been barely used?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on April 23, 2018, 08:47:04 AM
Always wondered why a Forest has to go to school, anyway...
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on May 23, 2018, 12:54:26 PM
Council chiefs overpay workers tens of thousands of pounds
The bulk of the overpayments occurred in Education Services followed by Social Services, according to new report

“It is disappointing that we have had £54,000 worth of overpayments through 2016/17, this though must be seen in the context of £93million of salary payments and equates to over 99.95% of salary being paid correctly."

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/council-chiefs-overpay-workers-tens-14695058 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/council-chiefs-overpay-workers-tens-14695058)

Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on June 12, 2018, 12:11:10 PM
A cash-strapped council (Conwy) has admitted leaving street lights burning all day and night is ‘not ideal’.

The lamps lining the Royal Welsh Way on the A470 in Llandudno have been left on 24/7 for weeks.

www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/conwy-council-street-lights-llandudno-14773499 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/conwy-council-street-lights-llandudno-14773499)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: DaveR on June 12, 2018, 12:53:57 PM
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A cash-strapped council (Conwy) has admitted leaving street lights burning all day and night is ‘not ideal’.

The lamps lining the Royal Welsh Way on the A470 in Llandudno have been left on 24/7 for weeks.

www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/conwy-council-street-lights-llandudno-14773499 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/conwy-council-street-lights-llandudno-14773499)
It's certainly a waste of energy, but not money, as street lights are not metered. The Council pays a fixed rate for each lamp post each year, regardless of the electricity used.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: SteveH on June 12, 2018, 02:22:50 PM
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A cash-strapped council (Conwy) has admitted leaving street lights burning all day and night is ‘not ideal’.

The lamps lining the Royal Welsh Way on the A470 in Llandudno have been left on 24/7 for weeks.

www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/conwy-council-street-lights-llandudno-14773499 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/conwy-council-street-lights-llandudno-14773499)
It's certainly a waste of energy, but not money, as street lights are not metered. The Council pays a fixed rate for each lamp post each year, regardless of the electricity used.

On that logic, next years fixed rate will cost more, and it still shows the council in a bad "light"
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Hugo on June 17, 2018, 03:53:03 PM
Non payment of Car Road Tax seems to be increasing steadily since the abolition of the paper tax discs but the DVLA  is useless as a debt management recovery office.
There are cars being driven around in the area that still have no road tax on them several months after their road tax expired.    If they clamped all the road tax defaulters then at least the cars couldn't  on the road

Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Hugo on July 08, 2018, 10:59:22 AM
I thought that the DVLA  as a debt recovery office was useless but realise now that the operation of it is a shambles.    The system is computerised so there is no reason whatsoever to see cars being driven around town with no road tax on it for 9 months or more

They saved a reported £10 million by abolishing the paper disc but have since  lost over £100 million by road tax evasion
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: norman08 on July 08, 2018, 11:16:10 AM
Hugo I have give the police car reg,s years out of date a van with wrong plates ( drugs)  and they are still on the road 😡
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Hugo on July 08, 2018, 11:31:28 AM
It's so annoying Norman but these people, the Police and DVLA  are public servants and accountable or should be for their actions.   I had a friend who worked in the Police service and he said keep reporting these incidents because a Police Sergeant has to review them at some stage and do something about it

Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: DVT on July 08, 2018, 12:19:43 PM
My mother-in-law died a few months ago and we are in the process of selling the house.  A letter arrived addressed to a person we did not know although the address was correct for my mother-in-law's house - we opened it and it was a NIP for someone having exceeded the speed limit, albeit by a very small amount.  I phone the Police at Prestatyn from where they issue such notices and told them the situation, I was also puzzled as to how they got the address - from DVLA I was told - and as the car was a 67 reg then where would the log book have gone to - I was asked to send the letter back with the explanation I gave over the phone - so I did.

I received a letter acknowledging, and was instructed to contact DVLA about the incorrect information - unfortunately I could not do this as I did not make a note of the registration number other than it was a 67 plate, and I knew the make of the car.

A week or so later a recorded delivery arrived for the same person.  The house was unoccupied so a note was left by the Post Office to go and collect - I realised what it probablty was so ignored it - I doubt I could have collected it anyway as I had no proof of being the person who the letter was addressed to.

I guess that the "criminal" got away with this as they would not have received the NIP within the time scale ... but it does beg the question as to how did this person got linked to my late mother-in-law's address in the first place.

This is not the only item of mail that has been addressed to an unknown person at the address this year, a whole series of letters arrived for one person from the Benefits Agency and Job  Centre and I did all I could to inform them by phone and even visiting the office, but the letters kept coming.  I gave up.

I wonder how much of my mail has gone elsewhere - certainly I hope that if I do get a NIP then it gets delivered somewhere else!!!
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Hugo on July 08, 2018, 01:06:18 PM
I wonder whether the number plate was cloned at some time if your in laws had a car with a 67 plate?       The Police seem to also turn a blind eye to a lot of these "designer plates" that have been modified by moving numbers and letters about and yet it is an offence and should fail the MOT
I have a dash cam and forgot to remove it for my MOT but my garage used common sense and removed it and placed it on the front seat before carrying out the test but I wonder how many other garages are obeying the rules?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on July 08, 2018, 01:10:35 PM
Quote
it was a NIP for someone having exceeded the speed limit, albeit by a very small amount.

Well, if you can remember the person's full name we'd be happy for you to post it in here, as a public service to the person concerned, as I'm sure he'd want to know his mail was being misdirected...
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: DVT on July 08, 2018, 02:50:36 PM
I'm not prepared to give the name in public - we only received two items - the NIP and the recorded "reminder".  I did find someone of the same name on Facebook who was a possible owner of the vehicle, so if I can find it then the Police should also be able to - if they're that desperate!

The "offence" was committed in the early hours of a Sunday morning, doing just a few mph (35) more than the 30 limit - well known camera not in the Three Towns area but not far away.

The last time a car was registered to my in-laws address was over 30 years ago - and would have been my late father-in-law's Austin Allegro (yes, the one with "square" steering wheel!) so there was no reason for DVLA to have that address on record !!!  My mother-in-law has never driven.

The car was a CX67 plate and I checked it on DVLA - the details agreed with those on the NIP, so less than 12 months old.  I cannot remember the three letters, which is why there was no point my contacting DVLA to check their records - the Police should have done that anyway.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Hugo on July 08, 2018, 03:38:57 PM
Sorry DVT but when you said a 67 plate I thought that it was 1967 not the most recent one   :-[
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: nwpo on July 11, 2018, 09:04:14 PM
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Conwy CBC have had yet another wonderful idea.

The Forest School in the centre of Eirias Park is about to close and much thought has been put into deciding what new use will bring the most benefit to the park.

The decision is in - they are going to convert the building into offices, which then will be leased to the Welsh Ambulance Service.
Hmmm...the very same 'Forest School' that CCBC spent a fortune on and has been barely used?

The same Forest School that they spent £7,500 on installing a new ground source heat pump at the end of March.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Dave on July 17, 2018, 10:05:37 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-44849203 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-44849203)

It's beyond belief that at a time of continual cut backs we find once again an incidence of gross stupidity.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Merddin Emrys on July 17, 2018, 10:48:30 AM
Hard to believe that they did not do a survey of the building to check it's suitability! But then this is CCBC!  ???
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Ian on July 17, 2018, 12:31:57 PM
This is appalling. Did it never occur to those leasing the place to check what the weight-bearing limits of the structure where before leasing it?  We need to know who authorised this - because we're paying for it, yet we never seem to find the idiot whose responsibility it was.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Giggly girl on July 17, 2018, 01:43:34 PM
Ah now the mystery of why 4 weekly collections are needed to save money is revealed.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Meleri on July 17, 2018, 02:30:12 PM
It's amazing what Freedom of Information Act requests throw up time and time again with CCBC. It's about time they made staff members account for their gross negligence. If the issue was identified as CCBC moved in to the fit out stage as quoted, why did they not challenge that it was unfit for purpose at the time. Even though the landlord soon after sold it on, surely this would still apply to the building whoever owned it. I don't think it's up to the council to now be looking at ways to improve the building if they intend using Council Tax funding and throwing even more money at this, surely that's up to the owner. I'd love to be a fly on the wall when this gets discussed, most probably will be behind closed doors yet again.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: norman08 on July 17, 2018, 03:59:15 PM
Now we all know that land is reclaimed as it used to be the tip, so didn't Ccbc planners have to pass the place for purpose 🤔 The same councilors that agreed to this building let are still on the council ,How do they keep getting away with wasting Our money 😡
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: Dave on July 17, 2018, 04:43:18 PM
According to the BBC news article the council signed a 35 year lease agreement too! It will be interesting to know who is in charge of the department and how much they get paid. Might be an even bigger surprise.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC, NAfW, UK Government, Local council and others
Post by: DaveR on July 18, 2018, 08:32:15 AM
I'd heard rumours for a long time that the massive building on Mochdre Business Park was unsuitable for use due to a construction problem, but I didn't know that it was CCBC that were paying a massive rent for a building that is completely unusable.

Someone (or several people) need to resign over this matter...or be fired!
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: cygnusx-1 on July 18, 2018, 09:46:26 AM
I am not surprised the floor is not strong enough......that area was the rubbish dump were the bin lorries made their call after being round the houses!
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on July 20, 2018, 06:54:33 PM
I've come to the conclusion that the DVLA as a debt collecting agency is not fit for purpose.   They know from day one if a car is not road taxed and yet I still see cars being driven on the road that haven't been taxed for nine months or more. 
I have written to the DVLA for information on specific points on their enforcement proceedings under the FOI
 Act and they have refused to answer them and I have just written again for some other details and they haven't even acknowledged the application.
They have a duty and responsibility to the public to collect all outstanding debts but unfortunately are failing in it. I just wish that something or someone would sort out this mess
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: SteveH on July 25, 2018, 03:09:59 PM
AAAAAARRrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg.   >:(     

Why the Welsh government gave £1m of taxpayers' cash to Qatar Airways.

Qatar Airways will get £1m (BUNG) from the Welsh Government to market Wales as a destination around the globe.
It had initially refused to reveal the cost, claiming it would (show up their incompetence ) compromise the country’s economic interests.

The airline will also contribute £1m to the two-year partnership, which has an option to extend for a further two years for another £1m each.  (Multiplying their initial mistake )
First Minister Carwyn Jones previously described the deal as a “huge boost” for ................?   Wales.

The Welsh Government had originally said the deal’s significance could not be “underestimated”, ( ? ? ? )  and the value was commercially sensitive.( An expensive mistake)

Today, Shadow Economy and Transport spokesperson, Russel George AM said: “Today’s revelation that £1m of taxpayers’ cash was used to support the deal between Cardiff Airport and Qatar Airways raises serious questions for the Welsh Government.

“It is not good enough to hide behind “commercial sensitivity” to keep these details quiet.”

www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/welsh-government-gave-1m-taxpayers-14948320 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/welsh-government-gave-1m-taxpayers-14948320)

Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Meleri on July 26, 2018, 02:33:48 PM
Hugo you can fill a form in on-line to report an untaxed vehicle. There is also a free service to check if the said vehicle is indeed untaxed before you put the complaint in. You must have the vehicles reg number, make, model, colour and the street name town & postcode of where it's parked to make the complaint . The form can be found on the Department for Transport site under Report an untaxed vehicle.
I can understand your frustration regarding this as only last year there was a campaign targeting non road tax payers saying "if you don't tax it you'll lose it". There was a huge revenue drop of millions following the abolition of the tax discs, which was exposed through a FOI by The Financial Times. Perhaps you could drop them a line and ask them how did they manage to get the information as you are being ignored.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on July 26, 2018, 06:02:50 PM
Thanks for that info Meleri,   I have reported the incident and did it over 8 months ago as the person is a habitual road tax dodger and indirectly owes me money.   If I had the contract of the debt in my name then I would have recovered it months ago.
As I have said before the DVLA  as a debt recovery business is not fit for purpose and is about as much use as a chocolate tea pot.
I'm not being unfair with my comments but expect that the Government when abolishing the road tax disc did not fund or resource the DVLA so that they could quickly and effectively recover unpaid road tax
I'll look into the Financial Times article asap and thanks again for the tips
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Cambrian on July 26, 2018, 06:43:24 PM
Good points.  DVLA's systems contrast with those of TV Licensing whose regular persecutions and unwanted mail shots can ultimately result in prison sentences even for those on minimal income.  Perhaps DVLA licensing should learn from the TV people - after all, who provides intel on licence dodgers other than the point of sale of a TV set. 

At one time the police used to deal with failures to display and failures to have Excise Licences but this is yet another area where they have relinquished any responsibility or interest.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Dave on July 26, 2018, 08:14:28 PM
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Good points.  DVLA's systems contrast with those of TV Licensing whose regular persecutions and unwanted mail shots can ultimately result in prison sentences even for those on minimal income.  Perhaps DVLA licensing should learn from the TV people - after all, who provides intel on licence dodgers other than the point of sale of a TV set. 

At one time the police used to deal with failures to display and failures to have Excise Licences but this is yet another area where they have relinquished any responsibility or interest.

The NW Chief Constable is about to retire tomorrow, in a press interview he said that prioritising where to put resources when you have had a £30m reduction in funding is an ever increasing problem.
I would hazard a guess that, irritating though it is to find that some people are dodging their road tax, there must be bigger problems to spend police budgets on. Doesn't mean they are not interested though.
Why not just go back to displaying a tax disc? Maybe that would help solve the problem.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on July 26, 2018, 10:59:54 PM
Dave, that is a good point about going back to the paper tax discs but the trouble with Government, be it local or central they would just not admit that they had made a mistake.
OK it would cost them £10 million to do it but the fact that they would save over £100 million doesn't seem to fit in with their way of thinking.
I've read up a lot about the DVLA recently and and they are claiming a lot of credit for tracking tax dodgers on ANPR cameras but that credit should go to the Police who have had that crackdown, although that was  last year.
The Police are not interested in chasing road tax dodgers because they are under resourced and have more important things to deal with.
A lot of road tax dodgers declare their cars SORN but in actual fact drive them on the road knowing full well that the chances of being caught by the Police are nearly zero.
Enforcement of road tax should be simple as the computers tell the DVLA on day one when the tax is out of date. A warning letter should be issued 14 days later then after a further 14 days the enforcement procedure should be followed up.    It's not rocket science so why is the DVLA  so ineffective in its job?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Ian on July 27, 2018, 08:42:57 AM
Substitute CCBC for DVLA in that last sentence and it continues to make sense.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: SteveH on July 27, 2018, 11:45:37 AM
Many years ago, the system below was brought up in a similar discussion, a system I agreed with at the time, and it still seems to make sense today.

"Vehicle licencing was first introduced as a road fund licence; a device for gaining income for the construction and maintenance of roads. Since there is no longer a direct relationship, one could argue that road tax could be abandoned and fuel tax increased. People with small cars and low mileage would gain by this and those doing high mileages and with big cars would pay proportionately more. "    REF.  https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-7781,00.html (https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-7781,00.html)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: DVT on July 27, 2018, 01:05:24 PM
Seems DVLA may be checking for untaxed cars as this was patrolling the streets where I live this morning - it had a screen on the dashbioard which was recording something.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on July 27, 2018, 02:27:49 PM
At least the van is taxed      ;D       If you speak to the driver send him to Colwyn Bay, that'll keep him busy for a bit.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: DVT on July 27, 2018, 03:45:40 PM
What got me was the statement on the back that says "This vehicle stops suddenly" !!!
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: norman08 on July 27, 2018, 03:57:30 PM
Walking up our way this morning one car tax 1 st October 2014 / mot 24 May 2018 , clamped and sticker ,car behind it tax 1st may 2018 they must have been out when van came .
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: DVT on July 28, 2018, 12:00:58 PM
Having just returned from my morning stroll for a newspaper I have spotted a van in one of the roads that the DVLA van patrolled yesterday - the van has been clamped.  Checking the van's details I see that tax ran out April 2018. MoT is until next year ... but it is a diesel and shown as 0kg nasty things, so possibly is zero tax anyway!  I know you still have to re-tax it even though zero but what would be the back-payment due?!!!

It does seem that the authorities are taking action now, but wouldn't displaying a tax disc make things so much easier, both as reminder to the owner and for everyone else to check?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on July 28, 2018, 12:35:33 PM
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It does seem that the authorities are taking action now, but wouldn't displaying a tax disc make things so much easier, both as reminder to the owner and for everyone else to check?

It makes perfect sense DVT and I'm glad to see that the DVLA  is active and about in this area and I hope that they catch the driver whose tax expired on the 31st October 2017.

Displaying a tax disc is certainly a deterrent but members of the public should not have to report untaxed vehicles, after all they are only reporting what the DVLA know already.
On the day that  the tax has expired the information appears on the DVLA records so from that day on their computer should be setting in motion a plan for recovery of the outstanding tax.
In North Wales they are not dealing with problems that you might find in the inner cities.   They know the cars that are untaxed, where they are located and should be clamping them as soon as possible to ensure that they are not driven on the road
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on July 31, 2018, 05:09:00 PM
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DVLA's systems contrast with those of TV Licensing whose regular persecutions and unwanted mail shots can ultimately result in prison sentences even for those on minimal income.  Perhaps DVLA licensing should learn from the TV people - after all, who provides intel on licence dodgers other than the point of sale of a TV set. 

At one time the police used to deal with failures to display and failures to have Excise Licences but this is yet another area where they have relinquished any responsibility or interest.

I agree with Cambrian's comments and some years ago I had a good chat with a person prosecuting on behalf of the TV licensing people and know that Cambrian's comments are spot on.
The DVLA is enabling at least £100 million per year of public money to go uncollected and if this was a private business it would have gone bust years ago.   

Both the Police and DVLA  know from day one who the offenders are and where they live so really there is no need for NLS  vehicles to go around looking for offending cars.     All they need to do is call at the property and deal with the offenders there and then.
Will it ever happen?   Perhaps not
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Ian on July 31, 2018, 06:47:19 PM
Two massive examples of incompetence: one CCBC the other Welsh Water.
On the two busiest weeks of the year for visitors, the Marine Drive around the Orme has been closed off at the West Shore End, stopping the 'train' and Coach operating on it.  CCBC say it's 'rockfalls' and they have to clear a gully, which has now become full. Wonder if it ever occurs to anyone in CCBC to suggest a proactive approach of regular clearing?

Meanwhile, Welsh water has chosen the same two weeks to create mayhem at the Black cat end of the A470 by installing traffic lights between Snowdonia Nurseries and the Shell garage, causing huge queues. You couldn't make it up.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: SteveH on July 31, 2018, 08:26:33 PM
"Meanwhile, Welsh water has chosen the same two weeks to create mayhem at the Black cat end of the A470 by installing traffic lights between Snowdonia Nurseries and the Shell garage, causing huge queues. You couldn't make it up."

I passed through the other day, and was amused to see the traffic light operator in his deck chair !, with his emergency vehicle (golf buggy) at the ready, in case he had to walk somewhere ?         ???
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: DVT on July 31, 2018, 10:01:53 PM
I am led to believe that the "road works" near Black Cat are to allow for the lay-by to be full of water tankers with parking out onto the main road.  They are there to take drinking water from the new reservoir that is underground near the road leading to Betws-yn-Rhos - an installation that was carried out only a few years ago ... so if they have to drain it by blocking the A470 don't you think it is something they should have thought about at the planning stage?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Cambrian on August 01, 2018, 08:25:10 AM
Looking around the Welsh Water website, it seems there are supply shortages in the Waunfawr area and water is being tankered there from other parts of North Wales, this tends to support what Glan Conwy folk have been told by men on site.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: SteveH on August 01, 2018, 01:02:12 PM
More than £2 million has been spent on the maintenance and repair of the Welsh Government building in Llandudno Junction just seven years since its opening.

About £23 million was spent on the construction of the Llandudno Junction site and now residents and councillors have been left scratching their heads as to why so much has been spent on the maintenance of a brand-new multimillion pound building.

The Auditor General for Wales found that the Welsh Government may have wasted millions of pounds in their relocation strategy.
"However, it seems that even more is now being lost as a result of the building in Llandudno Junction.

An extraordinary amount of tax payers money and whoevers in charge of maintenance should be made to answer for this.
"For a brand new building it seems like an excessive amount."
http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/16390574.more-than-2-million-spent-for-repairs-and-maintenance-on-new-welsh-government-building-in-llandudno-junction/?ref=mr&lp=5 (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/16390574.more-than-2-million-spent-for-repairs-and-maintenance-on-new-welsh-government-building-in-llandudno-junction/?ref=mr&lp=5)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Meleri on August 01, 2018, 02:12:16 PM
It's an absolute disgrace that amount of money has been spent on maintenance & repairs. How many more millions will it cost over the coming years? It will be interesting to find out what the response will be to Janet Finch-Saunders request, as to why so much money has been spent on these repairs.

Going back to the conversation before this topic does anyone know why the Black Cat garage has been closed?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Ian on August 01, 2018, 05:45:09 PM
Nothing on the Shell website. Unless it's being upgraded to an electric fast-charge station.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: DVT on August 01, 2018, 10:41:59 PM
Black Cat was open when I passed at 4.45 this afternoon.  When I was in there last week there was work going on a couple of the pumps so they were not in use - there were no less than 6 guys standing aroung, only one seemed to be actually doing anything!
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on August 16, 2018, 03:18:38 PM
I've just had an e-mail from my friend who has been out and about today and he saw 5 cars clamped in Denbigh and one in St Asaph.  So the representatives of the DVLA are still out and about in the area chasing road tax dodgers so that's good news.
However I still think that there are major issues at the DVLA and they have either not been resourced with staff  or finances by the Government so that they can cope with the increasing number of people avoiding paying road tax.
I still see a car being driven daily on the road that hasn't had road tax for 10 months and find it inconceivable how the DVLA has allowed them to get away with it.
I've sent off for some info from the DVLA under the FOI Act and had their acknowledgement which has been censored but the answer to my two questions is expected within the next 28 days so it'll be interesting to see the answers
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Merddin Emrys on August 18, 2018, 05:40:24 PM
Just bought and taxed a Mercedes estate on 14th August by direct debit, received 2 emails confirming it, also received the new V5 yesterday, then today in the post a letter saying failed direct debit!! I can't check online until 6am Monday as the system is down, hope I don't get any penalties for driving an untaxed car! As far as I can see I've done everything by the book!
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Ian on August 19, 2018, 08:35:00 AM
ME: I tried to rotate the image but now for some reason it won't load back.  I'll try later when I have a bit more time. Sorry about that.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Merddin Emrys on August 19, 2018, 10:08:37 AM
Thanks for trying Ian, is there away we can preview the image on a post and rotate it ourselves before posting?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Ian on August 19, 2018, 10:50:47 AM
The best way is Photo gallery / my albums / add item to this album and you can then pop it into any post anywhere in that post.

Oddly, I couldn't even get your image to load into my albums, however.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Ian on August 19, 2018, 10:58:11 AM
We seem to have a small problem concerning image uploads.  Not too sure what it is as yet, but will get back when I have more info.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Merddin Emrys on August 19, 2018, 12:47:57 PM
Thanks Ian, just checked online and the car shows as taxed, no idea why I received that letter!
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: DVT on August 19, 2018, 05:08:47 PM
No surprising the way DVLA is working (?) these days!

A few weeks ago a NIP arrived at my late mother-in-law's house (currently empty) addressed to someone we'd never heard of.  I contacted the Police to ask how they got that address and was told it came from DVLA.  The car was fairly new (67 plate) and had been caught doing 35mph in a 30mph zone at one o'clock on a Sunday morning.  I sent the letter back to the Police and received an acknowledgement suggesting I contact DVLA - I didn't because I had not kept details of the car.

Last week a letter arrived rom DVLA addressed to the same person as the NIP - stating that someone had tried to register the car in their name and DVLA were asking if it had been sold or stolen.  I rang DVLA was told they often have the wrong addresses, without giving any explanation, and I should send the letter back to them - they would then furnish me with a letter from DVLA so that I could show to anyone who may call to ask about the car!!!

As the car tax is soon due (1st September) I wonder where the renewal notice will go to!!!
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on August 19, 2018, 10:49:41 PM
If anyone thinks that the criticism of the DVLA is harsh then they should read this link.   I'll say it again that the DVLA as a debt recovery Government agency is not fit for purpose and its actions or rather lack of them has cost the UK hundreds of millions of pounds.



https://www.rac.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?22308-DVLA-What-is-going-on (https://www.rac.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?22308-DVLA-What-is-going-on)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Merddin Emrys on August 20, 2018, 10:36:15 AM
I rang DVLA this morning about the letter I received, they said it is fully taxed, the direct debit is in place with no problem, so all ok! This is the second time I've had a letter about an untaxed car when both times the cars have been taxed, they are always very helpful on the phone and I think it's another example of a government computer system that is not fit for purpose!
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on August 20, 2018, 12:13:02 PM
Quite often it's not the staffs fault for problems that arise,   I would imagine that they are working under pressure due to management or computer problems imposed on them.
I would imagine that when the paper tax discs were abolished the Government didn't consider the wider implications of their actions.   The DVLA should have had all the resources they needed already in place when the change over took place, but it seems that the DVLA was not geared up for the change as how else can anyone explain their abysmal record on collecting unpaid road tax
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on August 24, 2018, 06:48:24 PM
I recently sent a request under the FOI Act for information about SORN notifications and this is the reply I received from the DVLA

1) How many SORN notices were received in 2014?
2) How many SORN notices were received in 2017?
The information DVLA holds is on the number of Statutory Off Road Notifications (SORN) processed.
In 2014 DVLA processed 2,522,102 SORN notifications.
In 2017 DVLA processed 3,774,887 SORN notifications

So since the abolition of the paper Road Tax Discs the number of SORN notifications has increased by 1,252,785 which represents an increase of very nearly fifty per cent.    It's only what people expected though and doesn't take into account those drivers who don't even bother doing Sorn  notifications and still drive on the road without paying their road tax.   I suppose that they are quite happy to take a chance on not being caught knowing full well that the DVLA  is incompetent in it's recovery job and that the Police are under pressure and under staffed
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on September 19, 2018, 03:10:12 PM
Ever since the Government decided to abolish the paper road tax disc it has been losing hundreds of millions of pounds in lost revenue each year.     In 2017 there were 3,774,887 SORN notifications processed and if only 5 per cent of them were fraudulent then the Government must have lost about £20 million and that's a conservative estimate and that is not including other road tax cheats.
It's a bit annoying to see someone strutting around in a high spec car knowing that they have notified the DVLA  that the car is off the road yet the vehicle is still being driven daily.
I suspect that the DVLA like a lot of other Government departments has suffered severe cutbacks and had Government interference as well but it still has a job to do.
I've recently had a reply to another FOI  request from the DVLA but the reply is just as you would expect from a politician and has glossed over the point I was asking about.   So it has gone back to the DVLA requesting a simple yes or no to the specific question I was asking so  we'll have to see what happens next



Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Merddin Emrys on September 20, 2018, 06:34:12 AM
I think most people expected a fall in revenue once they scrapped the tax disc, I've never understood the logic of doing that?
My cars are always taxed yet twice now I have received letters saying the car is not taxed, they sort it out when you phone them up, so they are trying to do something, unfortunately targeting the wrong people!
Also, the car tax system is unfair in a few ways, when a car changes ownership the seller has taxed the car until the end of the month, yet the buyer has to tax it from the start of the same month! So the government gets twice the amount of tax for that month! Seems they are using the law abiding car owners to compensate for those who do not pay!
I also find the high tax rates for large cars to be very unfair, this affects cars newer than March 2006, tax of over £500 per year is unfair to me, remember that we are heavily taxed on fuel so the more you use a car the more you are taxed, an automatic system, so no idea why they need such high ved.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Ian on September 20, 2018, 09:28:07 AM
There is an argument that it penalises the less well-off so it plays well with the Tories.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Dave on September 20, 2018, 10:59:33 PM
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There is an argument that it penalises the less well-off so it plays well with the Tories.

Isn't it the opposite? New cars with a value of over £40k pay an extra £310 per year for the first 5 years ( which presumably carries on when re-sold too) so it's not aimed at the less well off.
Otherwise it's down to emissions and an individual choice as to whether you want to do something to help clean up the environment I guess.

Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Ian on September 21, 2018, 08:33:32 AM
I've never thought it made a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on September 21, 2018, 10:49:29 AM
Whatever the reasons for the amount of road tax to be paid, the fact is that that amount should be paid.   If it isn't paid the DVLA  has a responsibility to collect any unpaid duty.
The trouble is that they do not have a system in place that ensures that enforcement action will be taken against each and every defaulter to recover the unpaid road tax.
In short as a debt recovery agency they are a shambles
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: SteveH on September 25, 2018, 10:18:43 AM
Apart from the usual over spending, which is becoming the norm, it is annoying to see that they have to get a company in, to tell them, how to get quotes.

A pile of pigeon droppings meant a council contract was undervalued by almost £1m.

Conwy council had put a contract out to tender for repairs to Conwy Bridge, and an initial contract had been agreed to cost £687,705.
But this shot up to £1,531,683.43 once the contractor was able to examine the bridge in greater detail.

The local authority had hired a consultancy to come up with a tendering process and, according to the chief executive of the council, the true extent of the work needed was not realised when it was completed.

This was because corrosion on the bridge was obscured by large amounts of bird muck.
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/how-pile-pigeon-poo-led-15195880 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/how-pile-pigeon-poo-led-15195880)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Dave on September 26, 2018, 07:32:42 PM
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/council-tax-rise-inflation-busting-15200924#ICID=ios_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare_Click_FBshare (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/council-tax-rise-inflation-busting-15200924#ICID=ios_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare_Click_FBshare)

Why?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Dave on September 26, 2018, 09:42:06 PM
It's not that CCBC have a lack of money, they just don't spend it wisely.
What I'd really like to know is where it all goes to!
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on September 27, 2018, 06:21:34 PM
The DVLA  requests people to report untaxed vehicles anonymously and says that each report will be followed up.

This is a section of a reply I have received under the FOI Act  and it would appear that they take no notice whatsoever of any reports from the public.
It's not just incompetence it's simply inane, they are losing hundreds of millions of pounds but doing little about it

"The Agency’s wheelclamping scheme does not deliver a call-out service on demand, as costs simply prohibit this type of approach to the problem. Currently, DVLA can only immobilise and/or impound an untaxed vehicle after a formal sighting of the vehicle on the public road has been obtained by a police officer, traffic warden or one of the Agency’s own enforcement officials. Please note that the Agency’s wheelclamping contractor, NSL, are provided with data relating to untaxed vehicles received from our website "https://www.gov.uk/report-untaxed-vehicle

I have just replied to their e-mail and have asked one specific question and will wait and see what the reply is.   The answer I'm looking for should be a simple yes or no but I think that they will fudge the reply and not give me the answer I'm looking for
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Meleri on October 08, 2018, 04:23:29 PM
At the CCBC Finance & Resources Overview & Scrutiny Committee meeting on the 1st of this month, after a debate it was voted to cap the Council Tax increase at 11.6% only 2 members voted against. It will now go to The Cabinet meeting tomorrow for the final vote. Two rather interesting facts came to light during the debate such as the income for the year for Bodlondeb car park is £3,000 (baring in mind there is no charge during the week) the cost to run it is £20,000. No brainer really, either stop charging altogether and save £17,000 or charge all week and make a profit, I'm sure the Council employees can afford to pay for a yearly ticket as they are one of the the best paid in this area. The second fact was 40% of households in the county are claiming 25% single persons discount on Council tax, in band D that would be a £300 savings to them but a loss to the Council. Councillor Andrew Wood who pointed out both these facts stated it seems to be an awful lot of claimants and needs looking into and I agree wholeheartedly.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on October 08, 2018, 10:20:23 PM
Cllr Andrew Wood is right to point out those anomalies and he should be supported by all the other Councillors too.
The second fact that  40% of households in the county are claiming 25% single persons discount on Council tax is so obvious that it should have been investigated before.
Prosecuting the offenders though can be a lengthy process and costly too but there are ways around it if only they had the inclination to do something about it.
   
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on October 10, 2018, 03:52:21 PM
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The second fact was 40% of households in the county are claiming 25% single persons discount on Council tax, in band D that would be a £300 savings to them but a loss to the Council. Councillor Andrew Wood who pointed out both these facts stated it seems to be an awful lot of claimants and needs looking into and I agree wholeheartedly.

Meleri,  just so that I've got this correct in my mind,  is the Cllr saying that 40%  of domestic ratepayers in Conwy County are claiming 25% single persons discount on Council tax?
If that is correct then it must be fraud on a very large scale.    I was talking to my neighbour about it and we only know one person in the street who would be eligible for that discount and that's only because that person was recently widowed.
Cllr Wood may be on to something there
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Meleri on October 10, 2018, 04:58:50 PM
Yes Hugo that's what he said at the meeting, bit of a shocker isn't it  >:( The Provisional Settlement for Conwy County just announced has been awarded 1 million less than last time, so this could be an area to perhaps recoup some money to plug the gap, if people are claiming fraudulently. The Cabinet yesterday recommended a cap of 11.6% on Council Tax but that's not to say it will be that high, if they can find savings elsewhere. One of the Councillors stated she thought Central Government was setting Conwy County up to fail. Most of North Wales Counties came out with the worse settlements in Wales, but no surprises there.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: norman08 on October 10, 2018, 07:37:42 PM
Hugo I've just done a rough count ,in about a hundred yard circle their are at least 30 legit households with single occupancy ,houses and flats in my area , I'd like to know how some ccb  councilors over 60 claim public transport allowance when they have a pus pass, and I've seen them using that pass to go to Conwy, I think things need looking into at our council ( temple of waste) .🤔😡
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on October 11, 2018, 08:00:48 AM
That's a high number Norman but they may not all be claiming single person's discount.  Each case has to be judged on it's merits and if there is more than one person living in the house over the age of 18 then the householder may not be able to claim the 25% discount.  The other people could be children over 18 or lodgers or partners so it's not straight forward
However 40% claiming that benefit does sound excessive and needs looking into
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: norman08 on October 11, 2018, 10:52:15 AM
40% is high but have our council got their sums right 🤔 Not very often would happen  in Llandudno alone you have a great deal of single occupancy, widowers single men/ women ,I now a few widowers up your way ,also Martin Edwards ex wife lives round Llys helig 😅
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on October 11, 2018, 03:23:19 PM
From what Meleri has said Norman the Cllr would have easy access to the relevant records so I assume that what he says is fact, in any case the other Councillors are not disputing the accuracy of the figures.
40 % is suspicious and I'm surprised that the fraud investigators have not already looked into this abnormally high percentage.
Surely a small scale pilot exercise by the CCBC could say whether it is worth looking in to this matter further
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: SteveH on October 11, 2018, 04:28:35 PM
Some information on this subject, from the private sector, but the figures might be helpful.........

Chris Berry, NSL’s Account Director for Revenues and Benefits, highlights a first positive step in evolving the Council Tax system.

Since its inception in 1993 Council Tax payers who live on their own have received a 25% reduction in their bill. This is because the Council Tax is based on two elements – property and occupancy – which are split 50/50. In the original scheme an empty property which was furnished or had been empty longer than 6 months would receive a 50% reduction (the ‘property element’) and those who had single occupancy would only pay half of the ‘occupancy element’. This all changed when a number of councils scrapped the empty discount along with the second home discount, and in some cases charged more to have a property of this type.

Over the years this 25% reduction has seen to have been abused by many and the Audit Commission estimated that around 4% of Single Persons Discounts (SPD) are fraudulent. Such fraud denies Councils of much needed revenue and increases the tax base for those who pay the correct amount. It is estimated that £90 million per year of Council revenue is lost due to incorrect SPD claims. A number of companies assist Council’s with reviewing these, but the issue doesn’t seem to go away, with Council’s reporting steady cancellation rates of SPD’s after each review.

With currently just over 7.6 million discounts being claimed across the country, at an average of £330 per discount, £2.5 billion could be added to the Council tax base just by scrapping the discount.

Admittedly whilst a complete removal of the discount looks good on paper we cannot go down the same route as the Bedroom tax and have those who are on the breadline suffering when they are eligible for a reduction. Therefore, would a scheme for those in properties banded E or above to pay in full be acceptable? This could ensure that those living in small properties on their own would still be eligible and those in larger properties wouldn’t. This would affect around 749,000 Council Tax payers who live on their own in properties banded E or above.

It’s no secret that the Council Tax scheme needs evolving, but why not do it part by part rather than in one swoop? And the amendment of the Council Tax SPD seems a logical place to start.



This might interest Hugo ....  I noticed at the end of the above article from 2013 , mention that this company NSL appears to be contracted out to various government departments including the DVLA, .............
The contract will run through to November 2016, and will include the opportunity to extend up to a further two years. NSL previously provided VED enforcement for the DVLA from May 2006 to November 2011.

Mark Underwood, NSL Chief Executive, said: “We are delighted to be back working with the DVLA, and to be undertaking this important work for them, especially when one realises that it’s been estimated that vehicle excise duty evasion costs the UK Treasury more than £40m a year.* NSL is proud to represent one of the most efficient and cost-effective services for this work, given that we can utilise our existing enforcement operations network throughout the UK.”

Malcolm Dawson, Chief Executive of the DVLA, said: “We look forward to working with NSL as our national wheelclamping contractor. Their proposal supports DVLA in its commitment to reducing vehicle tax evasion and will strengthen the wide range of measures we have in place to improve vehicle tax compliance.”

The contract is UK wide, and covers vehicle immobilisation, removal, storage, disposal, and enforcement notice issuing.
http://www.nsl.co.uk/dvla-award-ved-enforcement-contract-to-nsl/ (http://www.nsl.co.uk/dvla-award-ved-enforcement-contract-to-nsl/)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on October 11, 2018, 07:00:30 PM
Thanks very much for posting those two articles Steve and although the Audit Commission estimated that around 4% of Single Persons Discounts (SPD) are fraudulent I would think that the figure was higher, probably much higher

As for the DVLA and the NSL,  what more can I say!      They are a real comedy duo and about as much use as a chocolate tea cup.
If they weren't dealing with public money it would be a farce, but they are dealing with our money.    I don't like criticising Public Departments because the vast majority of the staff are hard working and conscientious and the problems are normally created by senior management or Government interference but with the DVLA  I'll gladly make an exception
I might post something on here tomorrow about the DVLA but now I'm going out for a pint.    Thank goodness for small mercies and the DVLA isn't in charge of the Breweries!
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on October 12, 2018, 08:01:48 AM
I think that I'll await my reply from the DVLA before making a comment on them.    When you ask for something from them under the FOI Act they usually send back a long reply but if you study what they actually say then they have told you very little.
I sent a request in and they replied but didn't answer the question I asked, they did it again on my 2nd request so I sent a 3rd and now a 4th reminder and I'm awaiting a response.
Now I've asked them to just answer yes or no to the question I asked but I don't expect a definitive response because it would expose the department
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on October 21, 2018, 03:31:17 PM
I've had my 5th reply from the DVLA and it's as I thought it was going to be:-
"We are satisfied that the previous responses that have been given provides the relevant information that you request.  As advised, we have a range of enforcement measures that we do pursue against keepers of unlicensed vehicles and it will sometimes be the case that action is taken that will not be apparent to members of the public..
There is nothing further we can add to our previous replies"


The replies they give say a lot but when you read them carefully they actually say nothing.   I now know how they work but have thought about it and decided not to put anything else on here in case it encourages more road tax cheats
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: norman08 on October 21, 2018, 07:40:40 PM
Hugo two weeks ago I passed on to the police a car reg no tax since April ,not sure if this person has passed test so wouldn't have insurance ,child just sitting in front seat no belt on , guess what still driving around 😡
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Bri Roberts on October 21, 2018, 08:31:22 PM
norman08, I suggest you let your feelings known to our Police and Crime Commissioner.

http://www.northwales-pcc.gov.uk/en/Contact/Contact-Us-New.aspx (http://www.northwales-pcc.gov.uk/en/Contact/Contact-Us-New.aspx)

Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on October 22, 2018, 10:25:39 AM
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Hugo two weeks ago I passed on to the police a car reg no tax since April ,not sure if this person has passed test so wouldn't have insurance ,child just sitting in front seat no belt on , guess what still driving around 😡

It's so annoying and frustrating when you try to help an authority and they just ignore the information you have provided for them.
It's not the people doing the work that's the problem it's the restrictions and priorities that those people have to work with and the Police are a good example as I've found out in the past.    I'd be very surprised if they took any action on the information you have given so the link Bri Roberts has provided may be the best option
As for the DVLA, words fail me about their recovery system.   It's a joke, well it would be if it wasn't for the fact that the Government are losing a vast amount of money.   No one will ever know the true amount of lost revenue since the paper tax disc was abolished but if it was half a billion pounds in the last 4 years it wouldn't surprise me.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Robbie G on October 22, 2018, 11:56:14 AM
Hugo I agree the loss of revenue must be astronomical nation wide ,yet the detection systems that they employ have never been so comprehensive ,speed cameras etc even the local traffic wardens have the ability to detect untaxed vehicles  but there appears to be no method to coordinate the various agencies to prosecute the offenders .   
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Cambrian on October 22, 2018, 12:54:54 PM
It's a pity the same degree of zeal is not applied to this area as to the TV Licensing regime!

At one time coppers on the beat would also book for out of date excise licences or failure to display.  This seems to be another area that the police have withdrawn from, such as court ushering, service of summonses, arresting fine defaulters, - I could go on.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on October 22, 2018, 01:02:45 PM
We are both on the same side here Robbie but the systems are not coordinated and that's the problem.   It's the DVLA's  job  to ensure that the road tax is paid but they don't have an effective system in place to ensure that it's done.
Just look at the facts, the DVLA knows from day 1 when the tax has expired, they also know the address of the registered keeper so the problem is with their enforcement instructions
If you report any untaxed vehicles to the DVLA their website says that action will be followed up, but they already know that the road tax has expired and I have written evidence to say that they will not immobilise the vehicle so what's the point in reporting something that they already know and that you know they won't do anything about it.
Local Traffic Wardens have the power to get the untaxed vehicle immobilised but how do they know that the road tax is unpaid?    That was good 4 years ago when we had a paper tax disc but now there is no way the warden will know.    In fact I was talking to a Traffic Warden in Colwyn Bay recently and she confirmed this which is a great shame as the paper tax disc was a good deterrent
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on October 22, 2018, 01:14:31 PM
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It's a pity the same degree of zeal is not applied to this area as to the TV Licensing regime!

At one time coppers on the beat would also book for out of date excise licences or failure to display.  This seems to be another area that the police have withdrawn from, such as court ushering, service of summonses, arresting fine defaulters, - I could go on.

I fully agree with you Cambrian, the TV Licensing regime would firstly have a high profile advertising campaign to say that the TV detector van would be in the area on a certain date and then the detector van could be seen around the area
In fact some years ago I was talking to the person prosecuting on behalf of the TV Licenses in Caernarfon Magistrates Court and suggested to him a way that may be more effective than the detector van but he told me that they were already doing the way I had suggested.   He did say however that the detector van was also extremely effective.
Then he went before the Magistrates and obtained orders for payment for hundreds of  the TV cheats.   No messing about with him, if the Court Orders remained unpaid then they would be enforced quickly and effectively
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: SteveH on October 23, 2018, 11:07:16 AM
Going through the DP this morning, I noticed this Tweet from PC Snow, nice to see someone is listening.

First stop of the morning. Acting on intelligence received from members of the community, we stopped this vehicle as it crossed the #MenaiBridge into #Bangor - driver has no licence or insurance.
Vehicle seized and driver reported to court. #Fatal5
8:51 AM - Oct 23, 2018
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: born2run on October 23, 2018, 12:18:26 PM
There is no way those detector vans had any capacity to detect that someone is watching T.V it's a complete myth.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Ian on October 23, 2018, 03:22:25 PM
Actually, it seems not (https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/277939/can-a-television-detector-van-really-tell-if-you-have-the-tv-switched-on).  And the technology to identify exactly what you're watching or reading on a CRT computer monitor has been around for years. Now, as to whether they're used much is another question...
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Dave on October 23, 2018, 05:48:21 PM
There has to be lots of other methods that TV licence dodgers could be caught too. Sky,BT,Now TV all must have details of users that may or may not be available to run licence checks against perhaps?
What about BBC's iPlayer? It asks you if you have a licence before you start to watch but maybe they can run a check on your answer too?

As for car tax, insurance,MOT evaders, the North Wales Police put reports on the likes of Facebook daily about offenders they have just caught so they are running checks but the thin blue line is just that nowadays.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on October 23, 2018, 06:26:26 PM
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As for car tax, insurance,MOT evaders, the North Wales Police put reports on the likes of Facebook daily about offenders they have just caught so they are running checks but the thin blue line is just that nowadays.

It's the DVLA's  job to deal with the collection of car tax and if they did the job properly then there wouldn't be so many road tax cheats driving around and that would save the Police a lot of time and trouble as the Police's resources are stretched to the limit at present

Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Dave on November 02, 2018, 04:40:51 PM
At least two cars clamped in Craig-y-Don yesterday, presumably for no tax etc.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on November 02, 2018, 05:05:43 PM
If you see the clampers Dave send them over to Colwyn Bay. there should be enough work here to keep them busy for a while.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: norman08 on November 02, 2018, 09:07:55 PM
Quite a few were caught in Llandudno ,they swooped very early morning nice supprise when they went to their car .
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on November 02, 2018, 10:32:27 PM
It's good to see that the clampers are in the area again, I just wish that the local papers would have published something as it could make the road tax dodgers think twice about cheating the general public
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Quiggs on November 03, 2018, 10:21:05 PM
I believe that a No. of cars were clamped in Abbey Road, Llandudno for having no Road Fund Licence. Incidentally wasn’t that the original intention for the Road Tax in the first place, to repair the roads  ?.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on November 03, 2018, 11:08:49 PM
Here's the answer Quiggs

A vehicle tax was first introduced in Britain in 1888. In 1920, an excise duty was introduced that was specifically applied to motor vehicles; initially it was hypothecated (ring-fenced or earmarked) for road construction and paid directly into a special Road Fund. After 1937, this reservation of vehicle revenue for roads was ended, and instead the revenue was paid into the Consolidated Fund — the general pot of money held by government. Since then, maintenance of the UK road network has been funded out of general taxation, of which VED is a part.[


The Government ate losing over £100 million per year because of these road tax cheats and that money could go a long way to repairing our roads
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Ian on November 04, 2018, 08:07:07 AM
...except that it wouldn't. The money to repair roads already exists;  it's simply the the current administration won't spend it, because they're obsessed with not spending - like most Tory governments.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: born2run on November 07, 2018, 12:20:04 PM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6360687/Brothers-illegal-backyard-tip-123TON-pile-mouldy-bin-bags-infested-500-giant-rats.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6360687/Brothers-illegal-backyard-tip-123TON-pile-mouldy-bin-bags-infested-500-giant-rats.html)

Fantastic idea Conwy council that's £59,000 wasted for a start
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: alw on January 08, 2019, 03:44:32 PM
The Social Service's staff moved out of their Civic Centre office block a month ago.

When I walked past the building today I noticed a plume of steam coming from the flue on the roof, so we are paying to heat an abandoned building.

I wonder if the heating is also still on in the other 20 or so abandoned offices?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: SDQ on January 08, 2019, 06:41:55 PM
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The Social Service's staff moved out of their Civic Centre office block a month ago.

When I walked past the building today I noticed a plume of steam coming from the flue on the roof, so we are paying to heat an abandoned building.

I wonder if the heating is also still on in the other 20 or so abandoned offices?



Possibly cheaper to heat an empty building than risk a water pipe freezing & bursting with the subsequent damage that can cause?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on January 08, 2019, 09:01:52 PM
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The Social Service's staff moved out of their Civic Centre office block a month ago.

When I walked past the building today I noticed a plume of steam coming from the flue on the roof, so we are paying to heat an abandoned building.

I wonder if the heating is also still on in the other 20 or so abandoned offices?


Couldn't the water pipes be drained and turned off?


Possibly cheaper to heat an empty building than risk a water pipe freezing & bursting with the subsequent damage that can cause?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on January 08, 2019, 11:07:24 PM
I presume that the electric and gas had been disconnected so why couldn't the water pipes be drained and turned off?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: norman08 on January 09, 2019, 09:04:29 AM
C,mon Hugo you are being too sensible here , it's not their money so they don't care ,as soon as they emptied the place guys should have gone in and disabled everything ( incase of vandals for one thing ) ,,,,  how do you know the heating is on in council buildings and hospitals ,,, yes the windows are open 😡
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: cygnusx-1 on January 09, 2019, 05:49:08 PM
If you want to flog the place, I am sure a few quid to prevent rot etc will make  the place more saleable.......of course you would not complain if the place just fell down would you? All the rear ground floor windows have been boarded up already.....those facing NWP Headquarters will of course have the long arm of the law looking after them!!? The hospital doors used before 1965? will require hinging the other way to stop them opening into the corirdors but I am sure it will make a nice hotel otherwise.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: norman08 on January 09, 2019, 06:15:00 PM
If they want to flog it 🤔 Aren't they giving it to the developers that built the new offices .
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: nwpo on January 13, 2019, 05:25:40 PM
Yes, the Civic Centre offices are part of the deal for the developers. Their looking to turn it in to a hotel/spa
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: SteveH on January 31, 2019, 02:09:01 PM
Eleventh hour hand off of services by Conwy county refused

A number of town councils have refused to take on a list of services handed to them at the eleventh hour.
Conwy County Borough Council (CCBC) have identified a range of services that are "at risk" with a lack of funding available and have decided to try and pass them off to town councils.

The services include car parking, playgrounds, libraries, CCTV and public toilets.

Cont.     https://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/17398959.eleventh-hour-hand-off-of-services-by-conwy-county-refused/?ref=mr&lp=4 (https://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/17398959.eleventh-hour-hand-off-of-services-by-conwy-county-refused/?ref=mr&lp=4)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: SteveH on January 31, 2019, 07:26:18 PM
Second bit of good news today.............................

A cash strapped North Wales council gave away almost £580,000 in complimentary event tickets over the last four years.

Figures revealed in a Freedom of Information request to the Local Democracy Service that since 2014 Conwy Council gave away 25,272 tickets at a value of £579,595.63.

More.....  https://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/17400589.580000-worth-of-free-tickets-given-away-by-conwy-council/?ref=mr&lp=1 (https://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/17400589.580000-worth-of-free-tickets-given-away-by-conwy-council/?ref=mr&lp=1)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: SteveH on February 04, 2019, 10:41:53 AM
Why county chiefs are paying a council 200 miles away to answer the phone
Bracknell Forest council is now looking to pay a Welsh speaker to man the hotline, which it gets paid £80,000 to run.

A council in the south-west England is on the look out for a Welsh speaker ... to answer the phone to elderly people 200 miles away in Flintshire.

The local authority in Bracknell has been paid £80,000 by the North Wales council, to run an out-of-hours emergency helpline.

But as the emergency response officers are likely to end up receiving calls from people who want to Speak welsh, it is now on the look-out for a Welsh speaker to man its phones.

The officer will be working for the council's 'Forestcare' service, which is an out of hours provision that supports distressed residents across the country.

Law requires the council to meet Welsh speaking standards but prior to the job application being listed, the authority had been using a translation service to deal with calls from Welsh speakers.

The arrangement caught the eye of satirical magazine Private Eye in summer 2018. A column in the magazine reported on how "in the wonderful world of outsourcing, BFC has won a contract to monitor out of hours the lifeline alarms of elderly and vulnerable residents for 25 local authorities and housing associations, one of which is Flintshire County Council in North Wales."

The Flintshire job alone is worth £80,000 to BFC. So when Doris in Mold takes a fall and presses her buzzer, someone in faraway Bracknell will contact her neighbour, next of kin or emergency services."

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/county-chiefs-paying-council-200-15775082 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/county-chiefs-paying-council-200-15775082)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: SteveH on March 13, 2019, 12:31:00 PM
Conwy council have wasted more then £320,000 on a building they can't use in Mochdre.

In May 2016 Conwy County Borough Council (CCBC) entered into a lease for a site on the Mochdre Commerce Park in an attempt to centralise its environmental services to one location.

However the council have been unable to use the site since entering into the lease in 2016 due to a major fault with the concrete base which has meant vehicles could no enter.

In February 2017, after a nine month rent free period, CCBC began spending £20,000 a month on rent. It was not until June 2018, having spent £320,000 worth of rent on an unusable site they approached the landlord to strike a deal to not pay rent until a solution was decided upon.................  Cont.  https://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/17497179.conwy-council-wasted-more-than-300000-on-an-unusable-site-in-mochdre/ (https://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/17497179.conwy-council-wasted-more-than-300000-on-an-unusable-site-in-mochdre/)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: SteveH on March 16, 2019, 10:30:30 AM
Councillors in Conwy have become "frustrated" with plans for another pay rise just a year after their last one.

The Independent Remuneration Panel for Wales (IRPW) has decided that councillors should get an extra £268 a year following on from a £200 rise in 2018.
Cabinet members could also receive an extra £532 a year.

Pay for county councillors in Wales is decided by the IRPW so the decision is out of the hands of the people who would get the money.
But members of Conwy’s Democratic services committee meeting recently expressed their annoyance with the process and argued that members are being ignored by the panel.

They were told that they could not vary or delay the implementation of the pay rise and they’re advice was only being sought on whether to implement the increase to senior councillors.

Members of the council had written to the IRPW asking that pay rises should only be decided once every five years to coincide with the electoral cycle.
Councillors have yet to have a reply from the body with officers saying they had only received an acknowledgement of the letter.

The committee was asked to consider if proposed pay rises for senior members of the council including committee chairs and cabinet members should go ahead.
This would see cabinet members getting an extra £532 a year.
At the moment councillors in the county get a basic salary of £13,600 a year, this goes up to £29,300 for cabinet members and £22,300 for committee chairs.

Councillors will have to decide whether to give any civic salary to the posts of chair and deputy chair of the authority.
If paid, the payment would be £22,568, up from £21,800 for a civic head, the deputy chair salary would remain the same.

Cllr Julie Fallon said: “It’s not that we’re supporting the pay rise. We’ve tried, we’ve been ignored, we’re not happy with this, we wanted them to listen.”
Members of the committee voted unanimously against recommending the pay rise for senior councillors.
Cllr Susan Shotter said: “We have this discussion every year and we sit here wrestling with out consciousnesses and the situation stays the same.”  ref Pioneer

     
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Ian on March 16, 2019, 10:38:57 AM
I wonder if it's ever occurred to them that they could donate the excess to the Council tax funds?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: DaveR on March 16, 2019, 02:03:44 PM
Councillors have the option to decline to accept any increase. One or two do just that, but I believe many do not...
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: SteveH on March 21, 2019, 06:07:46 PM
More on the above story, from both the Pioneer and the DP, with varying accounts, none of them good.

"Council "failed" in its process of acquiring Mochdre site.
Now an independent, external review has found that there were "process failings" in the way they took on the new lease at Mochdre and CCBC have admitted to missing steps when it entered into the agreement in Mochdre

Cllr Sam Rowlands, cabinet member for finance and resources, said: “The report into how the situation at Mochdre came about is a very sobering read, with many parts highlighting weaknesses in our processes which we don’t normally see."
More    https://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/17518310.council-failed-in-its-process-of-acquiring-mochdre-site/?ref=mr&lp=5 (https://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/17518310.council-failed-in-its-process-of-acquiring-mochdre-site/?ref=mr&lp=5)


Bungling Conwy Council to fork out £600,000 for bin wagon depot with floor 'too weak' for lorries
As well as paying £400,000 for the lease the authority is on the hook for more than £200,000 worth of rates for the site

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/bungling-conwy-council-fork-out-16008159 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/bungling-conwy-council-fork-out-16008159)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Ian on March 21, 2019, 06:31:36 PM
If it weren't our money they're squandering it would be hilarious. 

"CCBC said they are set to change the process they undergo when entering into a high value lease using its project management framework as a structure "

It's almost unbelievable that no one thought to check the load bearing capacity of the floor, given its intended purpose. I don't believe it's rocket science. 
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: norman08 on March 21, 2019, 08:24:01 PM
We the simple people know it wasn't fit land, used to be the local tip with the Afon ganol running through, all that land gets flooded , just makes you wonder how brain dead they are on the council.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: SteveH on March 26, 2019, 09:50:44 AM
Mileage claims, housing benefits and affordable homes - today in North Wales politics
Here's what North Wales councils have been discussing today.
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/mileage-claims-housing-benefits-affordable-16026270 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/mileage-claims-housing-benefits-affordable-16026270)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Dave on March 28, 2019, 02:24:42 PM
Well that's the council tax bill received! The increase is twice that of my OAP increase and I have to pay tax on the latter too. Had the council  not wasted so much money perhaps they could have kept the rise somewhere closer to the annual inflation rate.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Nemesis on March 28, 2019, 04:15:20 PM
Have all ready contacted our 2 local councillors asking for an explanation as to why we are expected to pay for their fiscal mistakes. Garden waste collection they reckon costs £600K per annum. This is less than they have wasted on the storage facility in Colwyn Bay for bin wagons. They need a reality check. Guess what...??? No reply from our councillors.!
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Ian on March 30, 2019, 03:03:19 PM
From Which?:

The highest increase in England and Wales is in Pembrokeshire, which has seen a 9.97% increase. Band D properties in this area will be charged £1,377.25 in 2019-20, up from £1,252.41 in 2018-19. Residents here also saw an increase of 11.04% last year.

Elsewhere, residents in Powys will see their bills go up by 9.72%; the Isle of Anglesey has rises of 9.13% and Conwy has upped the rates by 9.12%. In fact, of the top-10 highest-percentage increases, all 10 are in Wales.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Ian on March 31, 2019, 02:08:22 PM
I think it's fairly clear that CCBC is poorly run, abysmally managed and squanders our money on a vast scale.  But we could change things.

It's within the power of the WA to institute a change whereby all council tax increases must be kept to the rate of inflation or face a referendum among the council tax payers. The current system leaves council tax payers effectively powerless, as CCBC simply trot out the same old excuses time after time.  We don't have to accept this. We could start a campaign throughout Wales to force the WA to make a change which would restore some power to those who pay the cash. As things stand councillors can take whatever decisions they want, safe in the knowledge that they don't have to face the electorate for quite a while. That needs to change.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Meleri on March 31, 2019, 02:31:12 PM
Ian I totally agree with what you say, but if you look at the Council Tax bands on CCBC website they haven't been reassessed since 2003 & house prices have risen considerably since then, most people will find they would go up at least two bands. Do you know who makes the decision for reassessment & how often they do it, is it CCBC or Central Government?
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on March 31, 2019, 03:20:45 PM
Meleri,    I think that Scotland was the first country in the UK to have the Council Tax reassessed and this was followed by Wales not long after.
I think that the Wales banding was based on the value of the property in 1993 but I'm not positive about the year.   I remember in 2005 our house was uprated one band and I had one heck of a ding dong with an unpleasant guy in the Valuation Office.     I won the case and our house was then reinstated to our previous banding.
My understanding now from talking to people who have just brought property in the area is that the new purchase price of the property reflects the Banding rate

What I don't know and must find out if England was also rebanded in the same way as Wales and Scotland were.

 After I posted the above I checked the Council Tax banding for England and copied it below.      It doesn't look like England has been rebanded but of course I could be wrong.       A definite vote loser for whoever tries to implement it in England

Properties in England are put into one of eight bands (A-H), depending on the price they would have sold for in April 1991.

The valuation band ranges for England are as follows:

Council tax bands in England
Council tax band   Ranges of value
A   Up to £40,000
B   More than £40,000 and up to £52,000
C   More than £52,000 and up to £68,000
D   More than £68,000 and up to £88,000
E   More than £88,000 and up to £120,000
F   More than £120,000 and up to £160,000
G   More than £160,000 and up to £320,000
H   More than £320,000

     
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on March 31, 2019, 04:05:03 PM
These are the Council Tax bandings for Wales and were based on the property values in 2003  ( not 1993 as i first thought )

Council Tax bands in Wales (based on 1 April 2003 values)
Band   Value at 1 April 2003
A   up to £44,000
B   £44,001 to £65,000
C   £65,001 to £91,000
D   £91,001 to £123,000
E   £123,001 to £162,000
F   £162,001 to £223,000
G   £223,001 to £324,000
H   £324,001 to £424,000
I   more than £424,000

The big question is "why is England's based on the 1991 values and not 2003 like Wales? "          They would generate  much more money nationally if England had the Council Tax bands rated on the 2003 values or better still on the current values


Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Meleri on March 31, 2019, 05:25:57 PM
Thanks Hugo for that information. Every year the Council Tax goes up considerably & if CCBC carries on wasting money the way they are I can see a huge hike again next year. I & haven't ruled out that they will reassess the Tax Bands when they get desperate either. They really should be concentrating on demanding a re think from Cardiff in how the allocated money is distributed between Counties as it's most unfair they way they calculate it at present, instead of making ridiculous comments like " we are where we are so must make the best of it", then squeezing every last penny out of Conwy County residents  $hands$
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Hugo on March 31, 2019, 05:43:58 PM
I'll agree with that Meleri and Ian made an interesting comment about the increase in Council Tax in the UK.         The top ten highest increases in the UK are all in Wales!    Something is wrong somewhere
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: SteveH on June 08, 2019, 09:56:20 AM
I have been following this case, and I am pleased to hear the outcome,........ however the costs to CCBC both in bringing the case and having defence costs awarded by the court, would have been substantial.

 A council prosecution against an experienced shepherd chosen as high-profile tenant of a £1 million National Trust farm, for £1 a year, collapsed dramatically on the fourth day of a trial today(FRI).

Outside Llandudno court, defence solicitor David Kirwan said :”I am very, very disappointed with the attitude of the council. There has been no apology. They nearly ruined a very honest and well-respected man. I believed passionately in my client’s innocence.”
Cont        https://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/17692701.your-good-name-remains-judge-tells-farmer-who-took-on-national-trust-tenancy-for-1-a-year/ (https://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/17692701.your-good-name-remains-judge-tells-farmer-who-took-on-national-trust-tenancy-for-1-a-year/)
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: Ian on June 08, 2019, 11:18:44 AM
A lot of questions about the case, too.

Quote
The case, costing thousands of pounds, was brought by Conwy council after trading standards officers visited the farm in January last year

Fascinating.  So Trading Standards officers still exist, do they? That alone was a surprise for me, but if so then they clearly have questions to answer as do the council's legal department, who ought to have checked the facts of the case prior to bringing it.

Having a case collapsing mid-trial is usually indicative of very poor preparation. So will the council now publish the details of what went wrong? Because they should.
Title: Re: Incompetence: CCBC (and other Public Bodies and Statutory Undertakers...)
Post by: SteveH on June 12, 2019, 03:38:51 PM
The Farmers’ Union of Wales (FUW) has demanded Conwy Borough Council conducts a full investigation into its decision to pursue aggressively a case against a Great Orme farmer.

The case against the farmer Dan Jones collapsed during a court hearing in Llandudno.

Cont.  https://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/17701154.conwy-council-accused-of-witch-hunt-against-great-orme-farmer/ (https://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/17701154.conwy-council-accused-of-witch-hunt-against-great-orme-farmer/)