Three Towns Forum - Talk about Llandudno, Colwyn Bay & Conwy

The Local => Genealogy & Research => Topic started by: Hugo on May 28, 2011, 05:41:16 PM

Title: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on May 28, 2011, 05:41:16 PM
Some photos of the old copper miners cottages before they were demolished in 1936. My mother lived in No 6, the end of terrace and moved to Cwm Place after they were demolished.
Glan Y Don as it was called in those days is the large detached cottage that is still there at the head of the cul de sac.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Trojan on May 28, 2011, 05:46:05 PM
The bottom photo shows the cottages being demolished in 1936.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Trojan on May 28, 2011, 05:49:14 PM
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Glan Y Don as it was called in those days is the large detached cottage that is still there at the head of the cul de sac.

The cul-de-sac called Abbey Place.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Paddy on May 29, 2011, 05:20:08 AM
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Glan Y Don as it was called in those days is the large detached cottage that is still there at the head of the cul de sac.

The cul-de-sac called Abbey Place.

The house is now called "Moranedd".
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Micox on June 18, 2011, 10:07:53 AM
Used to be Megan Jones and her daughter Sara's house in the 60s and 70s.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: llandudnotrust on June 18, 2011, 06:19:28 PM
wish it was mine
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Barbiroli on June 18, 2011, 06:54:04 PM
Hi Micox,  Was Sara a singer?
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on October 25, 2011, 12:03:38 PM
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Some photos of the old copper miners cottages before they were demolished in 1936. My mother lived in No 6, the end of terrace and moved to Cwm Place after they were demolished.
Glan Y Don as it was called in those days is the large detached cottage that is still there at the head of the cul de sac.

Thank you for resurrecting the photos!

Rog
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on October 25, 2011, 03:43:29 PM
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Some photos of the old copper miners cottages before they were demolished in 1936. My mother lived in No 6, the end of terrace and moved to Cwm Place after they were demolished.
Glan Y Don as it was called in those days is the large detached cottage that is still there at the head of the cul de sac.

Thank you for resurrecting the photos!

Rog

Hi Rog,  nice to hear from you again.  Your ancestors lived in No 3 and No 4 Penmorfa cottage if I remember correctly and those two cottages are the two in the centre of the terrace.  My Taid and Nain (Grandparents) lived in No 6 which was the end of the terrace and I believe it was the end nearest the Orme.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on October 26, 2011, 01:45:58 PM
Here are some more photo's of the Boating Lake with the cottages in the background.   One of my favourite photos is this one of a watercolour painting by Dean Henry Liddell (Alice in Wonderland's father) of the house he had built called Penmorfa.  Your ancestor Rog would have been lucky to have  seen the house just like it is painted in the picture. It was later made into a hotel and had side additions added to it but sadly the building was completely demolished a few years ago.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on October 27, 2011, 03:54:16 PM
Two views of The White Rabbit statue looking towards the direction of the Old Penmorfa Cottages.   One taken before Llandudno U D C carried out the disastrous sea defence and one taken today. Guess which one's which?        :rage:
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Blodyn on October 28, 2011, 05:44:42 PM
That's a lovely picture of Penmorfa, Hugo, it makes the Great Orme look very wild.  When would Dean Liddell have painted it? 
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on October 28, 2011, 06:34:57 PM
I'm afraid that I've no idea of when it was painted Blodyn.  Suepp posted it originally and then she very kindly sent me a copy of it.
 The only thing I can say is that there is no trace of the Marine Drive in the photo. The Marine Drive was completed in 1878 and Penmorfa was built in 1862 so it must have been some time in between.
Great House and such a shame to see the site now.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: DaveR on October 28, 2011, 09:32:21 PM
It was probably painted in 1862, when the house was completed. He sold it in 1873.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on November 12, 2011, 11:51:50 AM
Roger who lives in Holland started this thread as he was looking for his ancestors address of Min Y Don Cottages.   I was able to find it after remembering that my Nain used to refer to having lived in Min Y Don and asking Roger to let me know the addresses nearby so that I could trace it.
Straight away I knew it was Penmorfa Cottages but confirmed this with the 1906 Rates Book for Llandudno U D C.   It turned out that Min Y Don Cottages was its official name but Penmorfa Cottages was the name by what they were called locally.
I seem to remember that Roger was looking for a grave at the time also but couldn't help him at the time.
If you are reading this Roger and you still want to trace the grave would you post the details  again so I can follow it up.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on November 19, 2011, 03:53:08 PM
Hello Hugo,

Thank you for your kind offer.

The person I am looking for is Walter William JONES. He died 22 January 1871 at Min y Don Llandudno, aged 47. The death certificate was registered 24 January 1871.

The mystery of Min y Don and Pen Morfa was quite an interesting one, wasnt it.  ;D

Kind regards,

Roger
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on November 19, 2011, 04:20:18 PM
Hi Roger,

The Conwy Archives has closed for stocktaking and won't be open until early Dec. but I'll see what I can find and let you know.
It was really interesting with Min Y Don and Penmorfa Cottages and what a coincidence that my ancestors and yours were neighbours. I did enjoy that and my Nain was a Laundress like yours so they must have been quite close because communities were so different in those days.
I can across some postcards that my Taid had written to my Nain during World Was I  and they were all addressed to 6 Pen Morfa Cottages. My mother used to call them by the same name too,but my Nain was the only one I know that called the cottages by their official name.
 Walter would have seen some incredible changes in the growth of Llandudno and he would have seen Penmorfa getting built and the Marine Drive was not even built in his lifetime
. He may even have seen Alice in Wonderland ( Alice being the daughter of Dean Henry Liddell.)
Best wishes
Hugo
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on November 21, 2011, 07:20:25 AM
Hi Hugo,

Please, only do it whenever you have the time.  $thanx$

Best wishes,

Roger
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on November 24, 2011, 06:50:02 PM
I remember posting something before about an incident that happened at the National School of St George in Church Walks many years ago.  The building was completed in 1846 and my family and Roger's family would have had children that went to the school.
My mother used to tell me about one of the teachers there who had the nickname of Korky on account of the fact that he had a wooden leg.   Mam used to say that her brother Bobby Sam used to be naughty at times and one day Korky hit him for being naughty. Bobby Sam must have gone home and told his father about it because the next day Taid turned up at the school and chased Korky through the school.  Taid never got hold of him as Korky took refuge in the toilets and refused to come out until Taid left the building, which he did later.
I was thinking about the old times as I was driving to Llandudno today so I thought I'd take some photos for Roger to see.   The building was excellently restored and was Building of the year Joint winner in 2004.
The project was a very good example of what can be achieved after Mostyn Estates disgustingly neglected it for years and at one time were even contemplating having the building demolished!
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on November 30, 2011, 10:50:42 AM
I believe that the little girl in this photo is my cousin Ivy who was aged 8 at the time. She was playing in the gardens of the Penmorfa Cottages and ran into the street to fetch something just as the photo was being taken. It would have been taken in the late 1920's.
 According to my Mother the photo appeared on postcards for a long while after and appears in various books on Llandudno including Jim Roberts' "Llandudno"
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on November 30, 2011, 11:01:18 AM
The sea defence on the West Shore was not completed until 1952 and the sea often came over onto the land. My Mother would often talk about how the sea would come over and go very far down Gloddaeth Avenue and you can see how bad it was by this 1924 photo taken near the old tram terminal.
The cottages at Penmorfa were not affected as they were on slightly higher ground.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on December 08, 2011, 11:40:22 AM
Hi Roger, I was in the Archives this week and had a look at all the Burial books but still couldn't find a record for Walter William Jones. If my memory serves me right I think that you mentioned that Walter was a Wesleyan but he should have been buried in one of the local graves.
The Welsh Wesleyan Chapel of Caersalem was erected in 1837 and was probably the place where he worshipped in Llandudno. The building was later converted into Dr Roberts' Grammar School and has a plaque over a blocked up doorway  that states that the Right Honourable William Morris Hughes, Premier of Australia 1916-23 was educated in this building.
It's situated on the corner of Cwlach Street and Llwynonn Gardens.
I'll keep on looking because there are some records on microfilm too.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Micox on December 11, 2011, 06:04:57 PM
Hello Barbiroli. Six months late, but the answer to your question is yes. Sara was/is a most beautiful singer and a beautiful woman. I rate her jazz singing as amongst the best I've ever heard. She used to sing with us when we had jam sessions in the North Western, St Georges (I think), Washington and Imperial - Glyn Dryhurst, Glyn Lewis, Norman (1066) Fields, self, etc. Sara then sang with our band Rhythm Machine when we were resident at the Stage Door on the Pier (1975 and 6). Friend Martin Peel tells me she now lives Llandulas way. Megan Jones, Sara's mother was a lovely person (still is as far as I know) and was a regular at the Navy Club.

Heddwch.

Mike. 
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Barbiroli on December 12, 2011, 12:38:13 PM
Thanks Micox, I was`nt sure if i had the right person.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on December 12, 2011, 07:37:04 PM
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Hi Roger, I was in the Archives this week and had a look at all the Burial books but still couldn't find a record for Walter William Jones. If my memory serves me right I think that you mentioned that Walter was a Wesleyan but he should have been buried in one of the local graves.
The Welsh Wesleyan Chapel of Caersalem was erected in 1837 and was probably the place where he worshipped in Llandudno. The building was later converted into Dr Roberts' Grammar School and has a plaque over a blocked up doorway  that states that the Right Honourable William Morris Hughes, Premier of Australia 1916-23 was educated in this building.
It's situated on the corner of Cwlach Street and Llwynonn Gardens.
I'll keep on looking because there are some records on microfilm too.

Thank you, Hugo. Walter was a Wesleyan.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on December 13, 2011, 05:01:58 PM
Caersalem Chapel as it is today. I went to the Archives again but still couldn't trace the location of the grave.  If Walter William Jones died in Llandudno in 1871, then he should buried in the graveyard nearest the old Church of St Tudno.
It's a fairly small graveyard compared to the Civil Cemetery there but the wind was howling in Llandudno so I never went up there to have a quick look.
I'll have a look when the weather improves.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on December 13, 2011, 08:02:01 PM
Times were very hard in those days at Penmorfa Cottages but I never heard my mother complain once about her childhood there.  When Walter William Jones was alive Miriam Yr Ogof was still living in her cave and he would have known her well as he was one of her nearest neighbours.
My Taid and Nain moved to Penmorfa Cottages in 1906 and Miriam was still alive but living in Gogarth Tea Rooms which was situated at the junction of the Marine Drive and Pen Y Ffordd Goch. They would have also known Miriam as communities in those days were a lot closer.
They didn't have any money but were still happy and supplemented their food with wild rabbits and fish which they used to catch. My Uncle Bobby Sam would often bring home fish and Conger Eels to help the family out.
In those days around the early 1900's pedestrians had to pay a tole to walk along the Marine Drive but my Taid wouldn't have been able to afford even the  1d  tole money so he went along the ancient Monks footpath (sometimes called Cust's Path) to Ffynnon Llygaid (eye well) where he used to bathe his eyes in the spring water. Taid reckoned that his eyesight was prefect because of this regular bathing but I obviously haven't inherited his good eyesight.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Blodyn on December 13, 2011, 09:08:11 PM
Hugo, I'm afraid that looking around St. Tudno's churchyard won't help to locate Walter William Jones' grave.  Our only record of grave locations is the book listing inscriptions which you'll have looked at in the Archives.  Unfortunately it doesn't show all the graves as it was compiled in the 1980s by the Gwynedd Family History Society, using the inscriptions on the tombstones.  So, if a grave did not have a stone with a legible inscription there is no indication of whose grave it is.  For instance, a few of the graves are marked with just an outline of rough stones, while in some areas there are no grave markers visible at all. 

I agree that Walter William Jones would be expected to have been buried at St. Tudno's.  After Christmas I'll try to find out if there's any information on him in the parish Burial Records. 
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on December 14, 2011, 11:13:13 AM
Thanks very much for that Blodyn, it'll save me a few wet and windy hours looking for the grave in St Tudno's Churchyard.
I understand what you are saying about the Gwynedd Family History Society but the Church or someone should have the original record of the graves and who is buried where.
Do you have any idea where the original records are as they must be somewhere?
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on December 15, 2011, 12:29:22 PM
I was looking at the Census records for 1861 and 1871 today and found out some information from them.

The Dean Henry Liddell was listed in the 1861 Census with his wife Sorina D and Alice P who was aged 8.  Penmorfa wasn't completed until the following year so they were living at Tudno Villa.    I found his name under Siddell but that was probably due to a copying error, but his wife was listed under Diddell which is even worse!

Min y Don Cottages are listed there but I can see no sign of Roger's relative in the 1861 Census and couldn't find anything for him in the 1871 Census but Walter William Jones may have died by then.

On the previous page was listed Isaac Jones ( Yr Ogof ) and his address was given as "cave by Gogarth"    Strangely enough Miriam and any of their many children were not listed in the 1861 Census.     
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on December 19, 2011, 03:39:16 PM
Roger, I've looked at the 1871 Wales Census today for Min Y Don Cottages ( aka Penmorfa Cottages)  and still cannot find your relative Walter William Jones there.
In the 1871 Census,  Evan Jones who previously lived at No 5 on the 1861 Census was by then living at No 4.     At No 3 in 1871 the Head of the household was Mary Jones.
It may be that Walter had died by the time that the Census was carried out in 1871 but where was he living before he moved to Min Y Don Cottages?
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on December 20, 2011, 12:50:47 PM
Hello Hugo,

Walter died 22 Jan 1871, so before the census was taken. His youngest son, Evan was born 29 July 1870 in Min Don, Llandudno. Walter's next youngest son, David Llewelyn was born 1868 in Llansantffraid, so the family must have moved to Min y Don Cottages between 1868 and 1870.

Thank you for help.

Have a Merry Chrismas

Rog
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on December 20, 2011, 01:10:41 PM
Thanks Rog,
That may be a big help and perhaps he wasn't buried in Llandudno after all.  It'll be New Year before I can go to the Archives but I'll have another look when I go there next.
There are two Cemeteries in Llansanffraid that I am aware of, so it may be there that he is buried.

Hope that you have a Happy Christmas and New Year.  I remember my Dutch friends telling me that they celebrate it on a different date to ours over here so you can have two celebrations now.    $good$
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on December 20, 2011, 04:09:57 PM
Hi Hugo,

Not sure about a burial in Llansantffraid. Walter was a travelling Boot and Shoemaker. I have folllowed his movements across North Wales by way of the births of his children. LLansantffraid was his last port of call before moving on to Llandudno.  If he was buried elsewhere I would expect it to be Holywell. This was where he was born. His father, William, had a shoe shop on the High street but William died mid 1860s.

The Dutch celebrate Christmas and New Year, as we do but Sinterklaas is celebrated on 6 Dec.  Children are told that if they are naughty Black Pete will put them in his sack and take them away. Needless to say I have been very good this year.  ZXZ

Merry Christmas to All,  ;D

Rog
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on December 20, 2011, 06:04:46 PM
Thanks for all the info Rog, the Conwy Archives only covers the area of the County of Conwy but Holywell was in Flintshire when Walter died and their Archive office is elsewhere.
I'll see what I can do in the New Year though.

Prettige Kersdagen, Nadolig LLawen and a Merry Christmas to everyone.      Z**    $walesflag$
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Micox on December 28, 2011, 05:59:52 PM
Going way off topic do you think Black Pete is synonymous with the folk song Black Jack Davy (best known by Steeleye Span)? $lol$
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on December 29, 2011, 01:01:03 PM
I had a look on Ancestry today Rog, but you probably know the details already. Walter William Jones' death was recorded in the Burial Register Jan/Feb/ Mar of 1871 at the Conway District at Vol 11b pg 398.    I don't think that this tells anyone where the burial was carried out at but I'll ask at the Archives asap.
According to the 1861 Census Walter was living at 17 Garden Street, Llansanffraid Glan Conwy.  It seemed like a big street in the village but I've no idea where it once was or even if it is still there today.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on December 29, 2011, 01:38:29 PM
Hello Hug,

I think you will find Walter was living in Bangor 1861.  ;)
 
I am attaching a copy the census page for 1861 as well as a copy of Walter's death cert. As you say, no help with the burial and that will only be found in the PRs.  :'(

Happy New Year,

Roger
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on December 29, 2011, 01:41:22 PM
and the census.

Size limit caught me out, as wll as having a problem finding my 'o' key.  :roll:
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on December 29, 2011, 01:49:48 PM

Quote
Going way off topic do you think Black Pete is synonymous with the folk song Black Jack Davy (best known by Steeleye Span)?

Hi Micox,

My fault. Translating when I shouldn't.  :o

Try this. Not sure how tha backing music goes tho'.  ;D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet)

Roger
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on December 29, 2011, 05:53:35 PM
No wonder I couldn't find Garden Street in Llansanffraid Glan Conwy     :-[       I did work in Bangor Gwynedd for over 20 years but have never heard of Garden Street there either.   ???

Looking at the Death Certificate for Walter, I couldn't quite make out where it said he was born. Did it say Flint Holywell?
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on December 29, 2011, 06:06:46 PM
Hi Hugo,

I mentioned in Reply 32 that Walter was born in Holywell. The 1861 census is correct, in that Holywell was in Flintshire at that time (abt 1823).   $good$

I tried looking at the Old Maps website but could not find a map.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: dwsi on December 30, 2011, 06:20:41 PM
http://bit.ly/tyR6uF (http://bit.ly/tyR6uF)


8. Walter William JONES, son of William JONES and Margaret OWENS, was born about 1824 in Holywell, Wales and died on 22 Jan 1871 in Llandudno, Wales age 47 from Disease of Heart & Dropsy.

                        Occupation: Boot & Shoemaker.
Walter married Eleanor BARKLEY on 12 May 1853 in Wrexham. Eleanor was born on 7 Jun 1829 in Tythebarn and died about 1859 about age 30.

Marriage Notes: Ellen Berkley
The child from this marriage was:

4         i.  William Walter JONES (born on 1 Jun 1854 in Liverpool - died on 18 Oct 1900 in Fulham, London). William married Louisa Selina BEAK on 18 Apr 1887 in All Saints Church, Lucknow, India. Louisa was born on 31 Mar 1856 in Bath, Somerset, died on 21 Dec 1905 in Islington at age 49, and was buried on 27 Dec 1905 in Fulham Palace Rd Cemetery, London.
Walter next married Mary ROBERTS, daughter of Robert ROBERTS and Unknown, on 19 Apr 1860 in Bangor, Wales.

General Notes: Address; 3 Min y Don Terrace, Llandudno. Wales. 1861 census address: 17 Garden Street, Bangor.

    Children from this marriage were:

          i.  Thomas Owen JONES was born on 28 Feb 1861 in Bangor, Wales.
         ii.  John Roger JONES was born about 1863 in Bishop Castle, Shropshire.
        iii.  Roger Perris JONES was born about 1865 in Llanberris, Wales.
         iv.  David Llewelyn JONES was born about 1868 in Llansantffd, Wales.
          v.  Evan JONES was born about 1870 in Llandudno, Wales.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: dwsi on December 30, 2011, 06:48:59 PM
Garden Street, Bangor is now under the Menai multi-storey car park
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on December 30, 2011, 10:57:41 PM
Thanks Dwsi, that's a great find.  I worked in a building overlooking that street but didn't know that it had once been called Garden Street as it is now known as Ashley Road.
The original houses must have been demolished as they have been replaced with more modern ones and I think that the modern ones are still there and weren't affected by the car park
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on December 31, 2011, 10:43:49 AM
Thanks dwsi. That is indeed from my website. Probably should have provided the link earlier. $good$

Quote
Garden Street, Bangor is now under the Menai multi-storey car park

So, no chance of a photo of the house then.  :D

At least I now have a map location.  $thanx$
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: dwsi on December 31, 2011, 02:37:10 PM
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Thanks Dwsi, that's a great find.  I worked in a building overlooking that street but didn't know that it had once been called Garden Street as it is now known as Ashley Road.
The original houses must have been demolished as they have been replaced with more modern ones and I think that the modern ones are still there and weren't affected by the car park

Ashley Road is now roughly opposite Malt St. was, where the entrance to the Uni computer science site is now. Frondeg St still exists as an alleyway next to 30 Dean St
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: dwsi on December 31, 2011, 02:49:54 PM
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Thanks dwsi. That is indeed from my website. Probably should have provided the link earlier. $good$

Quote
Garden Street, Bangor is now under the Menai multi-storey car park

So, no chance of a photo of the house then.  :D

At least I now have a map location.  $thanx$

Picture? ta-dah!! (well the roofs of Garden st)  D)
Building on the bottom right is the old police station which is now M&S
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on December 31, 2011, 03:35:56 PM
Brook Row was probably named after the Brook ( or more correctly River Adda ) on it's western side. The river also runs through Garden Street and is now mainly culverted and only appears above ground past the modern Tesco store.
After the Police Station was demolished, construction began on the Marks and Spencers building and I heard that when they were piledriving for the foundations of  the building, the construction firm pierced the culvert and serious flooding occurred.   Work continued because of contract penalties that had been signed but I don't know how they resolved the flooding problem.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: DaveR on December 31, 2011, 08:38:01 PM
The entire culvert has recently been rebuilt through central Bangor to try and relieve the flooding problems.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on January 01, 2012, 07:59:14 AM
Thank you, everyone,

Great photo, dwsi!

I hope each of you had an enjoyable New Years eve.  +}}{--

Roger
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: dwsi on January 01, 2012, 12:54:08 PM
A better picture of Garden St now known as Garden Sq
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on January 03, 2012, 04:56:57 PM
Quote
A better picture of Garden St now known as Garden Sq

Excellent picture. Never thought I would see the street.   ;D

Thank you dwsi.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on January 06, 2012, 03:55:27 PM
That's a great find Dwsi and they still have some streets similar to Garden Square in that area of Bangor.

Rog, I was in the Archives again but there is no trace of Walter's grave in Llansanffraid or Llandudno and District.   Walter moved around quite often so it could be anywhere.
In the 1851 Census Walter had left home but the family were living at 32 High Street Holywell at that time and it may be that Walter is buried there with his parents  but I've no way of checking that.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: dwsi on January 06, 2012, 05:42:15 PM
This is a map of the area in 1935
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on January 09, 2012, 07:39:24 AM
Thank you Hugo and dwsi,

The maps and photos of Llandudno and Bangor have given me a pretty good idea of how the area looked some 140 years ago.

As far as Holywell PRs are concerned, Hugo - the burials end in 1841. I am a member of the Clwyd FHS and I have emailed them asking how far they have got (hoping they have transcribed 1870 onwards). I am awaiting a reply.  $good$
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on January 09, 2012, 06:35:43 PM
I hope that you get a positive reply from Clwyd F H S  but I'm surprised that they are not more up to date than  that.  Would the Flintshire Archives in Hawarden have the info you are searching for?
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on January 11, 2012, 05:45:56 PM
I am still waiting for a reply from the CFHS Parish Register Coordinator.  :(

AFAIK the Flintshire archives have the burials microfiche, but only those transcripts that have been completed.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on February 23, 2012, 08:07:20 PM
I had a walk today which took us through Holywell town.    We walked through the pedestrianised High Street and I took a photo of No 32 (it's the middle of the pink building) but I'm afraid that the building has seen better days and is up for sale. A friend that I was with also had relations working in the High Street in the 1800's but they were at No 1 and were Blacksmiths.
The Church of St James is set on a hill and is only about 200 metres away so if William Walter Jones was buried in Holywell it could have been in that Church.  There is a non conformist Church near Carmel which may be a possibility but really I would have expected him to be buried at St Tudno's and near the Church there.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on February 24, 2012, 08:26:27 AM
Thank you for the photos Hugo. If you do not mind, they will go into family photo gallery.  $thanx$

The story so far. It appears that it could be a long time before Holywell burial records are transcribed by CFHS.

Nevertheless I have since discovered that two William JONES (name of father of Walter William) of the right age were buried between 1861 and 1871 in Holywell. I ordered both death certs. Unfortunately the 1st one I received was not mine. I am awaiting the 2nd (with bated breath).

I also had confirmation that there is no record for the burial of Walter William JONES in Holywell. Not good news but if he was not buried in Llandudno or Holywell, might it have been Llandrillo? (PoB for wife , Mary nee ROBERTS)

I will keep looking.  $good$

Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on February 24, 2012, 10:59:15 AM
One of the friends I was with lived in Greenfield and his ancestors lived in Holywell and by coincidence his family name was Jones.  He also told me that the burial records for Holywell are in the County Archives in Hawarden, so is it possible that they have them and not CFHS?
I've looked in all the burial records in the Conwy Archives including Llandrillo but I'll check again. Llandrillo was in Denbighshire so it's unlikely that Walter was buried there.
Holywell in the 1800's was a busy place and had a population of over 10,000 and was the third largest town in Wales at the time.  St James' Church which is near the High Street appears to have had the Cemetery grassed over and the headstones removed and placed around the edge of the lawn but I didn't have time to look at them all as I was walking through.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on February 25, 2012, 07:53:55 AM
The problem I have is access to records. I can only buy transcriptions that have been done by the CFHS. They have not transcribed all the parish records.  :(

Although I know that the Flintshire archives has microfiche of baptisms, marriages and burials for Holywell etc I have not been able to discover whether I can buy microfiche from them. They have all the transcribed copies so far done by the CFHS, which of course do not include the burials for the period I am looking for.

I also have a problm with respect to Llandrillo. Which one? I only have the census records to go by and these say Mary's PoB was Llandrillo, Denbighsire. I had assume it was Llandrillo yn Rhos as this is close to Llandudno, but there is also a Llandrillo south of Corwen.  :'(

It just doesn't get any easier does it?  :roll:

FWIW, the death cert I received for William JONES of Well Street, Holywell, recorded the informant as George JONES of Greenfield. This JONES line isn't mine but might be of use to someone else.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on February 25, 2012, 03:55:59 PM
I'll ask my friend for more information on the Holywell burials when I see him next and I'll double check with the Conwy Archives asap. The other Llandrillo is near Llangollen and above the horseshoe falls (see photos)  but it is more Likely that Mary is from Llandrillo yn Rhos as it's much nearer to Llandudno.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on February 25, 2012, 06:47:37 PM
I e-mailed my friend and this is the reply I received:-
"I did my family history research many years ago at Hawarden Records Office. They had the parish records there."

The Conwy Archives do certain requests by e-mail and it may be possible that the Flintshire Archives do the same. It's worth a try anyway and I'll have a look again at the Conwy Archives


Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on February 26, 2012, 09:54:59 AM
Sorry Roger    :-}}}     $booboo$    that photo of the Church and Horseshoe falls is actually Llantysilio not Llandrillo.     I realised that after it was too late to modify my posting.
I'll post some other photo's another time.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on February 28, 2012, 07:11:01 AM
#63

But lovely views of Wales, nevertheless.  $walesflag$
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on March 04, 2012, 11:13:44 AM
Hi Hugo,

Some good news.  ZXZ

Findmypast has released Parish Records for a number of Welsh counties (not all though).

Denbigh is one that is available and I have found Walter William JONES, buried in Llanssantfraid Glan Conwy, 25 Jan 1871.

At last!  ;D
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on April 11, 2012, 12:53:09 PM
Hi Rog,  I don't know how I missed your last post but I read it last night for the first time so today I've been back to the Conwy Archives.
Unfortunately Walter William Jones is not listed in their burial book for Llansanffraid Glan Conwy although they were able to confirm that he was buried there.    ???
Anyway I decided to visit the Church and graveyard myself.  The Church has an old cemetery within it's walls and there is a more recent one further up the hill.   I looked at the graves in the old Cemetery but unfortunately couldn't find one for Walter. After I had finished my search the Church Organist came out and I explained the position to him and he said that the best person to contact is James Berry the Rector's Warden.  James' contact details are below and he may be able to help with the exact location of the grave.
Contact James Berry About:  All General matters concerning the church.   All pastoral requests should be directed to the Rector.
Address:  Llysaeron 18 Tal y Fan Llansanffraid Glan Conwy Conwy LL28 5NG
E-Mail:  llyfrauberrybooks@hotmail.com
Phone:  01492582596
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on April 11, 2012, 02:37:35 PM
Hi Hugo,

What can I say.  $thanx$

I am most grateful for the time you have taken searching for my ellusive Walter William Jones. I will never have the chance to visit the graveyard so the photos you placed on the thread are very welcome.

I subsequently discovered that Walter's father, William Jones, died in Llan, Llansanfraidd GC 21 July 1863. It would appear he was visiting his daughter Sarah who had married John Jones. On the 1861 census, John was a tailor as well as parish clerk. William was buried in Holywell in 24 July 1863.

Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on April 11, 2012, 04:04:24 PM
I've sent an e-mail to James Berry with a copy to you.  Hopefully he can pinpoint the grave and then I can go up and take a photo for you.
Llansanffraid Glan Conwy or Glan Conwy as it is called locally is not far from where I live so it's no trouble for me.  The old Cemetery has a lot of grass over the graves but today there were thousands of Primulas all over the place and it looked quite pretty as Cemetery's go.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Cambrian on April 11, 2012, 05:07:14 PM
Hugo/Rog

Just a thought as there seems no trace in the List of Graves - could he have been buried in an un-marked grave or was he buried in one of the chapel grave yards eg Fforddlas ?
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on April 11, 2012, 08:06:50 PM
Cambrian,  I had thought of that and although I've checked the Burial Records for Fforddlas previously, I rechecked them again today and nothing came up.
It's possible that he is buried in an unmarked grave but I'm not sure if the records show all graves or just those with a headstone.  The Church will have all the records and hopefully my e-mail to the Rector's Warden may throw some light on it.

Llansanffraid Glan Conwy is a village but it is also the name of the Parish and it also covers a very wide area.  I'm not familiar with any other graveyards within that Parish though.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Jimbo on April 13, 2012, 10:17:36 PM
My father was born at Pen Morfa cottages, the family name was Hughes and it was in the 1920's, they later moved up the Orme to glan LLyn on LLywinon Road.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on April 13, 2012, 10:36:34 PM
My Nain and Taid lived in No 6 Penmorfa Cottages from 1906 to 1936 when they were demolished.   Our family name is Hughes too and my Mother's brother Bobby Sam who was born in the Cottages also moved to Llwyn Onn Road later on with his family.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on May 01, 2012, 04:21:30 PM
Hi Rog,  I've sent 2 e-mails now and received no reply, and also phoned that number a few times ( it always says we cannot receive your call at the moment, please phone back) 
Last night I sent a letter to him, so fingers crossed. Next time I'll call at the house if I don't get a reply.
Today I went back to the Conwy Archives but again couldn't trace anything for Walter although all the graves seem to be listed there,   ???
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: rog on May 03, 2012, 03:29:20 PM
#73

Thank you for the update Hugo.  :)

Roger
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: lizcj on July 11, 2014, 07:25:02 AM
Hugo, my family also lived there and from your photos on the "people" page obviously knew your family well,  John Thomas was my great Taid and Gwyneth was my great Aunt. My Grandad, John Edgar Thomas was born in Pen Morfa Cotfages. Last night was a bit of a revalation to say the least as Taid was dead before my mum was born, it was lovely to meet him and to see Auntie Gwyneth as a child, I knew her as a fabulously dressed older lady.
Anything you know of their time in Pen Morfa would be of great interest!
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on July 11, 2014, 09:06:36 AM
Lizcj    Your Taid lived at No 5 Penmorfa Cottages and my Taid & Nain lived at the end terrace No 6.      My mother and Gwyneth were best friends and attended the old St Georges School in Church Walks.
The cottages were demolished in 1936 and your Taid and my Taid lived in adjoining semi's in Cwm Place when they moved.  I've a lot of info about the family and photos too but will have to post them later as I have a few things to do today.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: lizcj on July 11, 2014, 09:48:03 AM
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Lizcj    Your Taid lived at No 5 Penmorfa Cottages and my Taid & Nain lived at the end terrace No 6.      My mother and Gwyneth were best friends and attended the old St Georges School in Church Walks.
The cottages were demolished in 1936 and your Taid and my Taid lived in adjoining semi's in Cwm Place when they moved.  I've a lot of info about the family and photos too but will have to post them later as I have a few things to do today.
Wow, you've made my day, thank you,  have just texted my mum to tell her!
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on July 11, 2014, 11:53:03 AM
Lizcj,  I don't really know where to start as there is so much to say.    The families were so close and my memories of your family are still very clear.   Times were very hard in those Penmorfa Cottages and I seem to remember my Mam saying that the terrace shared a communal WC  and washroom.    My Nain and Taid had 7 children there and I can remember Gwyneth, Adelaine, Peris and John Edgar from your family.
My mother Nancy and Gwyneth were best friends as were my Uncle Bobby Sam and Peris. 
I'll start with 3 photos of the cottages, my Taid lived at the end on the right and your Great Taid lived next door
The next photo is of my Taid Samuel Hughes with John Thomas your Great Taid (on the right) outside the cottages.
next is Gwyneth (on the right)  with my Mam again outside the cottages 
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on July 11, 2014, 12:08:56 PM
Gwyneth and my Mam were best friends and went out together all the time.  Here are some photos of the pair of them as young women out in Llandudno.
My mother got married in 1943 and Gwynethh was her Bridesmaid 
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on July 11, 2014, 12:17:39 PM
I can remember Mervyn, Gwyneth's first husband very well.  He was a really nice guy and it looks like this photo may have been taken at a wedding but I'm not sure is it was their wedding or not.  It was so sad when Mervyn died so young.
The second photo is of Mervyn and Gwynedd and it looks like they were on the pier and with Penrhyn ( or Spud as we all called him)
They were a lovely family as were all the Thomas' and I've nice childhood memories of living next door to them in Cwm Place.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: lizcj on July 11, 2014, 02:35:31 PM
Thank you , they are great! Mum refers to Penrhyn as spud too. It was years before we found out Adalaide was called Adalaide as my Grandad always called her  "our Adaline".Were your family welsh speaking? I know Grandad was but he didn't raise the children as welsh speakers. I'm fluent.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on July 11, 2014, 03:21:25 PM
I'm glad that you like the photos. I've a few more somewhere but couldn't find them when I looked this morning.   My Nain came from Amlwch when she was 17 and couldn't speak any English and then met my Taid who was bilingual and he taught her to speak English
Unfortunately they only spoke English to the children so consequently my Mam couldn't speak Welsh.       My Dad was fluent in Welsh but had to speak English to Mam so I'm unable to speak Welsh either.  I'm lucky though as Nain lived with us and I can understand a bit of Welsh.
Did your Nain have a coffee bar in Pleasant Street Llandudno in the 60's ?   It was where Carlo's is now and we used to go there and play cards downstairs.
Gwynedd and Mam went to St Georges School in Church Walks in the 1920's and 1930's and by coincidence a lady who had been in there at the same time put an advert in the North Wales Weekly News asking if anyone knew Gwyneth .   I replied to her but sadly by then Gwynethh had passed away but I was able to let her have some old photos and told her what had happened to Gwynethh over the years.   I haven't seen Spud for a while and Gillian his sister lived near me at one time but I believe emigrated to New Zealand
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: lizcj on July 11, 2014, 03:33:43 PM
That's right, they had the Floral Cafe up until I was about 7 (so 1979/80ish) fabulously psychadelic murals on the cellar walls and a jukebox. My mum is the middle child, John was the eldest (he passed away last year) my mum is Sandra and my auntie Jackie lives in Llandudno with my Nanna (chapel st).
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on July 11, 2014, 11:07:28 PM
Lizcj,   When you mentioned John, are you talking about John who lived in Colwyn Bay and would have been about 67 now?
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: lizcj on July 12, 2014, 08:10:12 AM
Yes, that's right, he lived in Colwyn Heights. He died a year ago today.

Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on July 12, 2014, 09:41:00 AM
I'm so sorry to have heard that news.  John was a nice guy and although I didn't know him as well as other members of the family I knew him to talk to.  In fact when I stayed on an extra year at John Brights, we were in the same class.
About 5 years ago I was delivering leaflets in his street and handed one to him and had a chat with him about his Taid from Pen Morfa Cottages. I remember John saying that he hadn't seen a photo of his Taid and I did promise to give him a photo but could't find it at the time and then time passed on.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on July 12, 2014, 05:45:51 PM
The first photo is of 34 Cwm Place where Nain Thomas as everyone called her lived.  I believe that she was in the doorway when I took the photo but you'd never be able to tell from the old photo
Next, a very angelic looking Spud taken at a May Day Carnival in the town and the third one shows Spud lying on the wall of Jeff Berrington's house.   Left to right in the photo sitting down are  Jeff, me and Micky Kirkham
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on July 14, 2014, 04:57:31 PM
My Nain & Taid moved to Penmorfa Cottages in 1906 and stayed there until 1936 when the cottages were demolished.  They then moved to Cwm Place the same year.   The first phase of the Council Houses for Cwm Place (No's 7- 38) were build to house people from "impoverished homes" and I know three families that lived in Penmorfa Cottages that were moved to Cwm Place and they were our family the Hughes, the Thomas' and the Robinsons who lived in a flat at No29.
I don't know when John Thomas and his wife moved to Penmorfa Cottages but I did look at the Street Indexes in the Conwy Archives today and the Street Indexes only show one name and that is the breadwinner usually.
The 1911 index had Mrs Sarah Jones  living at No 5
The 1922   "         "    John Thomas  living at No 5 and had his occupation as a gardener
The  1922  "          "           ditto

The topic of Penmorfa Cottages originally came into being following a request from Rog a forum member who now lives in Holland.   Rog asked the question "does anyone know where Min Y Don Cottages are"    no one on the forum had an answer and my Mam always called them Penmorfa Cottages.     I remembered that my Nain used to say that she lived at Min Y Don so I went to the Conwy Archives and had a look at the 1906 rates book and found that Min Y Don Cottages is the official name for the cottages and Penmorfa Cottages was given that name because they were near the Penmorfa House.   My Taid Samuel had just moved there in 1906 when the previous tenant left.  The Cottages were described as small tenement cottages and owned by Lord Mostyn
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on July 18, 2014, 03:25:15 PM
Sorry but I meant to say the 1925 Street Index and John Thomas stayed there I believe until he moved to 34 Cwm Place.     I can remember Nain Thomas well but seem to be a bit vague about John Thomas.
Do you know when he died?
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: lizcj on July 20, 2014, 11:46:17 AM
Checked with mum, Taid  died in 1949, he was quite substantially older than Nain.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on July 20, 2014, 05:56:43 PM
I was only 3 when your Taid died but I have a vague memory of him.   Nain Thomas had a lodger there but I can't remember his name only that he worked in the large brick building at Pabo Junction in Llandudno Junction.   I'm sure that Gwyneth lived there too before moving to her house in Ffordd Las.    Those houses in Ffordd Las were brand new when Gwyneth moved in and I can remember how nice she kept the place.
Adelaide's son Dougie lived with Nain Thomas when he got married but sadly he died very young.   He was a really nice, popular person as were Derek and Pam his brother and sister.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on July 20, 2014, 08:45:20 PM
As I've mentioned before, life in the Penmorfa Cottages must have been tough with six families and countless numbers of kids sharing one communal WC and washroom.  Mam never complained though and had a happy childhood there, both Gwyneth and my Mam attended the old St George's school and they were both just ordinary well behaved children.   She did tell me about a teacher at the school who was nicknamed "Korky" on account of his wooden leg. My Uncle Bobby Sam must have been a naughty boy one day as Korky gave him a whack but the next day my Taid went to the school and chased Korky through the school.  Apparently Korky locked himself in the WC and refused to come out until Taid had left the building.
To supplement their food the family would go out and catch Rabbits and Fish and one day Uncle Bob caught a Conger Eel under some rocks and hung it up outside their cottage.  Peris Thomas came into Taid's cottage just as this Eel made an involuntary movement and smacked Peris in the eye and apparently gave him a real black eye.
In the year that the cottages were due to be demolished there was a shipwreck on the West Shore. The Flying Foam, a coal carrying ship that was fully laden had run aground.   Taid sent my Mam out to get some of the coal before the wreck was secured and I would imagine some of the Thomas family were sent there too.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: SAJ on August 05, 2019, 06:08:12 PM
Hi,

Finally registered after dipping in and out of forum topics for some time. I particularly like the photo gallery and old postcards.

I grew up in Craig-y-Don but moved out of area when I was 18 years old. I don't visit Llandudno too often these days but still have cousins living in the area and manage the occasional catch-up.

Thanks to Hugo for his posts/photos relating to Penmorfa (or Glan-y-Don) Cottages/Cwm Place and my Nain and Taid Thomas. They lived at the cottages with their family from at least 1915, my dad, John being born there in that year.

I have a few old photos that may be of interest and will try to scan and post soon.

SAJ
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on August 05, 2019, 06:43:28 PM
Welcome to the Forum SAJ  and I hope that you continue to enjoy looking in and posting things on here.

I'm guessing now but was your Taid John Thomas?     He lived at No 5 Pen Morfa Cottages and my Taid lived next door at No 6.
In 1936 the cottages were demolished and the families moved into Cwm Place, my Taid lived at No 33 and John Thomas lived at No 34 the adjoining semi

I didn't know your Taid but knew Nain Thomas very well.     If I'm right the son John and his wife had a cafe in Pleasant Street Llandudno ( where the Floral Restaurant was )  and we used to go to the cafe in the basement every Sunday.  If my old memory is correct I think it was called " The Cave"       Nice memories but it seems a long long time ago.

The official name for the terrace of cottages was Min Y Don Cottages but everyone called them Pen Morfa Cottages and No 6 was the end cottage on the right of the photo and No 5 being next door.   I think that they were two up and two down but the terrace had to share washing facilities including a WC and I'm guessing that it was the building by the road in the picture
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: SAJ on August 06, 2019, 10:24:32 AM
Thanks Hugo, I've already started looking out those old photos!

You are correct.  My Taid was John Thomas. I never knew him as he died in 1949, before I was born. He was considerably older than my Nain, Alice who lived in Maenan prior to their marriage.

Their son, John was my dad and yes, my parents ran the Floral Cafe for many years. "The Cave" was principally the domain of my older brother, John and his circle of friends but I did enjoy the music from the juke box. "1 play for sixpence or 3 plays for a shilling." It is highly likely that our paths crossed at some point as I frequently tried to invade that particular space!

 Dad also had a window cleaning business, starting out with a handcart, probably in the early 1950's, and later buying a van as the round developed. If my memory serves me correctly, he had two lads working for him at some point. I think one lived in Cwm Place and the other, possibly named Gerry, lived on Maesdu Road.

I was unsure as to the "official" name for Pen Morfa cottages but found the address noted as Glan-y-don on the death certificate for my dad's older sister, Harriet who, at five years old, was a victim of the 'flu pandemic of 1918.

Imagine the excitement for those Pen Morfa families when they moved into their new homes in Cwm Place. I have a very vague memory of visiting someone in the prefabs but unsure as to which member of the family that would have been. I'll have to quiz my cousin, Derek next time I see him.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on August 06, 2019, 03:23:44 PM
I was born in 1946 so I would only be about 3 when your Taid died in 1947 so that's why my memory of him is very vague.   A lot of the things that you have said have brought my memories flooding back.     The window cleaning business that your father had, the lad in Maesdu Road could have been Gerald Parry a nice guy who sadly died far too young.   Gerry had a friend called Keith Pritchard who may have been the one in Cwm Place

Glan Y Don was the big detached cottage in the photos, it is still there and is now called Moranedd and in actual fact I was looking at it today.   It was one of the cottages built for the Copper Miners and you can see the tunnel that goes from there directly under the Orme for about half a mile.   It's the water from the mines that fills up the boating lake across the road.

In actual fact I was in the same class as your brother John when I stayed on an extra year at John Bright's  and I spoke to him about 12 years ago when I called at his house, he lived in the same street as me.    I was shocked when I heard of his death as he was only young then

I can only remember the names of John, Gwyneth,  Adelaide and Peris as the children from No 5 Pen Morfa and Min Y Don was the name  I found from the Rates book of 1906 when my Nain and Taid moved into No 6.
It must have been tough for the families at Pen Morfa and when the terrace was demolished in 1936 Cwm Place was build to " house impoverished families"     Cwm Place must have been a real boost for them after living in the shared facilities of Pen Morfa

I've also got a distant memory of your parents living in Nant Y Gamar Road near to the old Chapel but that seems many many years ago.   Sadly I lost all my photos when my computer crashed but the Pen Morfa ones may be on here but at least I have original photos which I will scan in due course
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on August 06, 2019, 03:55:14 PM
Here is a photo of our Taids together outside one of the Penmorfa Cottages
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: SAJ on August 06, 2019, 05:30:29 PM
Great knowledge and photo!

I think you are right about Gerald Parry, the other name isn't ringing any bells but it was a very long time ago. Sorry to hear that Gerald isn't around to share these memories.

I might have to pop over and see if I can spot the tunnel you mentioned. It's a long time since I sailed a pond yacht on the boating lake.

My brother lived in Llandudno for a number of years before moving to Colwyn Bay. Interestingly, not long before he died, and of great surprise to me, he admitted to our mother that (years before), he had shot me in the leg with his air rifle and had told me not to tell. I also, as instructed, had neglected to tell her that he'd taken me up the quarry, climbing scaffolding and riding "wild donkeys".

How on earth did you know that we lived in Nant Y Gamar Road? I was about 3 years old when we left but I remember watching the trams coming across the field opposite and the ladies that looked after the chapel giving me biscuits.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on August 06, 2019, 06:34:16 PM
I used to come around to your house in Nant Y Gamar with Spud and all I can remember is that the door was either at the side of the property or towards the back, unless my memory is playing tricks.    We were very close to the Thomas family, not just neighbours but good friends too and that continued for many years.     By any chance have you posted here before but as lizsj because I've posted things on here for someone of that name and didn't want to repeat what I had said previously

I've attached a photo of an extract from the 1906 Rates Book and you can see my Taid there at No 6, your Taid must have come there later but before 1911 because I think he was in the 1911 Census at No5   Notice the name is Min Y Don Cottages

I've attached a link of the Pen Morfa Adit for you to see, it goes on for over 10 minutes but it's the first minute I wanted you to see.   It shows the Adit and the cottage on the top left is Glan Y Don ( now called Moranedd )       I was invited to go to explore the adit with the GOES but declined their kind offer as I had seen what the tunnel was like inside

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwcpwT4tKUM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwcpwT4tKUM)
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: SAJ on August 07, 2019, 10:06:22 AM
I was probably a bit young to remember those visits with Spud who was almost a year older than John. Spud's sister, Gillian and were born a couple of months apart making her the closest "Thomas" cousin to me by age.

The door was at the side and we occupied a ground-floor flat. Here I go into the depths of memory - the resident of the upstairs flat was an Irish lady named Molly. At that time, I firmly believed that she was Molly Malone even though I never once saw her "wheel her wheelbarrow".

I think the person who has posted previously is my daughter. I can run through those postings to save you time repeating information. When I have a chance, I'll post some info in the genealogy section.

Interesting to see the video of the adit, I know that as a boy, my dad had explored various bits of the old copper mines. No good for me I'm afraid, I'm a wee bit claustrophobic!
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on August 07, 2019, 11:16:56 AM
SAJ,   the Administrator Ian has very kindly moved our postings to Pen Morfa Cottages where we can continue to post about the Cottages and the people linked to them

If you look through the previous posting you will be able to see some more photos and comments about life and times there.   I only found out that they were officially the Min Y Don Cottages when I was helping Rog from Holland locate them as his ancestors lived at No 3

Gillian, Spud's sister lived near me on Colwyn Heights and not far from where your late brother John lived.     It's many years since I last saw her as she told me that she was emigrating to New Zealand.     I haven't seen Spud for a while either and I was sad to hear that his wife passed away in recent years.

Your Uncle Peris was a nice guy and had a fine singing voice but you don't always appreciate it when you hear a rendition of " God bless the Prince Of Wales "   after 11.00 pm.  but we knew that it was Peris going home past the shops in Ffordd Las after the Links had closed.        ;D   

I've attached a photo that should bring back memories from you Nant Y Gamar days
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: SAJ on August 10, 2019, 04:41:05 PM
Thank you to Ian for moving our postings. Nice to have all the threads in one place for ease of review. Interesting reading about the lives of our Pen Morfa ancestors. I'm sure that my dad never considered himself to have been "impoverished". The accommodation may have been very basic but I think the family were adequately fed and generally happy.

I haven't seen Gilly for a number of years, I understand that Spud can be seen cycling around town on a regular basis but haven't seen him since our Auntie Peggy's funeral in 2016. I'll be posting something relating to Uncle Peris as soon as I've managed to scan it. In the meantime, here is a photo of him with my dad outside the cottages. It's a faded picture but it appears that Peris is waving a flag.

Love the picture of the tram. Our pet rabbit, Peter was buried in that field. He was dead, obviously.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on August 10, 2019, 05:01:38 PM
Times were tough for the people living in those cottages but my mother had nothing but happy memories of her time there.  She was born in 1922 and lived there until the cottages were demolished in 1936
Your father John would have gone to the St George National School in Church Walks like my mother and all the other children did.   The Conwy Archives have some school records there so your Dad may be included in those records
I've mentioned it before on here but our family used to catch rabbits and fish as a supplement to the meals that they had and my Uncle Bob was very good at it. 
My Mam told me the story of him catching a big Conger Eel one day and hanging the fish outside the door of No 6,   Peris was coming through the door of No 6 just as the Conger Eel flicked its tail and smacked poor Peris in the face and gave him a black eye
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: SAJ on August 10, 2019, 05:59:57 PM
It was the same for dad. He talked about swimming in the sea from April until the end of October, exploring on the Orme and of hitching a lift to school on the milk cart. He frequently recited bits of poems that he had learned at school and, like Uncle Peris, was a decent singer. I was astonished to learn that he had been in a production of "The Mikado". Don't know the details but that would be a photo I'd like to see!

I'll have to come and explore the Archives at some stage to see what I can discover about the family generally.

Love the story about your Uncle Bob, the conger eel and Uncle Peris!

I've posted a couple of photos in the "People" album today. More to follow soon.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on August 10, 2019, 06:29:05 PM
I've a very distant memory of going with Spud to Bangor.  His father Merfyn would have taken us there and I can still picture the house that we went to but I suppose that would have been Merfyn's family as I don't know where Nain Thomas came from originally.

I drove past the Archives in Conwy on Wednesday and the new building is coming along nicely, it will have a cafe there which is a bonus but I'll probably spend more time in the cafe rather than in the Archives itself

I'll have a look at those photos in the People album and see if I can recognise them.   Just had a quick look but can't recognise anyone from the school photo.    Was the Dad and the two other Thomas' related?
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: SAJ on August 10, 2019, 07:22:45 PM
Uncle Merf was born in Bangor. I checked the 1939 Register and he was living with his parents and working as a postman. Did you go in Uncle Merf's mini? I remember when he bought it and my dad looking it over.

As mentioned, Nain grew up in Maenan but was born in Cerrigydrudion.

The new Archives building will be a bit of a change from visiting Denbighshire Archives in the old Ruthin Gaol. An ancestor on Nain's maternal side was locked up there in 1859 for bankruptcy. 

I'm definitely on that school photo. I'm seated with hair in bunches and my ears sticking out! The names of most of the class are written on the back of the photo but would take a lot of typing in. Some of the "less ordinary" surnames are - Hanson, Stokes, Rodgers, Algieri, Whittaker, Kerridge, Roughsedge and Dibble.

I'm not entirely sure as to whether dad was related to the other Thomases. Taid was one of nine children and I've not managed to trace them all down. His twin sister, Margaret married Thomas Jones and their son was John Arthur Jones, photographer. Another son, Thomas Edward, "Eddie" lived with Nain and Taid at Cwm Place for some time. I think I recall my mother referring to Dick Thomas as dad's cousin. I'll need to do more digging as there were numerous members of the Thomas clan all born in the Mochdre area.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on August 11, 2019, 10:52:16 AM
I can't remember what car we went in as I must have been about 7-10  years old then, it's just the house I can remember.    When I went to work in Bangor in 1985 it was one of the first houses I saw and it instantly brought back the memory of my visit there.

Nain Thomas must have had a lot of the family living there at some time, I remember the name Eddie but can't remember what he looked like.  One of the clearest memories I have is of your cousin Dougie Williams and his wife Gloria living there.   Dougie was such a lovely guy and it was so sad when he died at such a young age

Some of those names you have mentioned that are in the photo I've heard of and in fact there is a thread on here about the Kerridge Family which has been quite interesting.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Helig on August 11, 2019, 11:26:38 AM
The mention of the name Kerridge caught my attention. Do you know which Kerridge it was please? Otherwise what year was the photo taken? I might be able to work out from that. Is there any chance you could post it on here?

The name Algieri seems familiar, does anyone know this family?

Helig.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on August 12, 2019, 11:03:19 AM
There were some Algieri's who were builders but I never knew the family although I have some memory of Maria and Lucia Algieri who I think lived at the top of Conway Road in Llandudno ( the Queens Road end by the roundabout )
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: SAJ on August 12, 2019, 04:14:54 PM
Hi Hugo, I'll have a look at the Kerridge thread when I get a minute. Vincent Algieri was in my class and I think they did live in Conway Road somewhere near members of the Forte family. Angela Forte was also in my class as was Susan Mott (missing from the photo) whose dad was the band leader Roland Mott.

Hi Helig, Peter Kerridge was in my class at Craig y Don School. I'm fairly sure that the photo was taken in 1961/2 when we would all have been around 8/9 years old. I've posted it in the "People" album in the Gallery. Tried unsuccessfully to attach it here. Peter is seated on the left-hand side of the row of girls.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: lizcj on August 13, 2019, 09:14:58 PM
Hi Hugo, yes, the person you spoke to before was me and I am SAJ's daughter. I have fond memories of The Floral too and even though they moved from there when I was 6 or 7.
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on August 14, 2019, 09:41:04 AM
Hi Lizcj,  a group of us, mainly from Cwm Place and the estate went to the cafe every Sunday for a meal and a game of cards and really enjoyed it there.   Most of the time it was your Nain that we would see there but sometimes your Taid would be there too.
When the Penmorfa Cottages were demolished at least three families that I know of from the cottages moved to Cwm Place.   The Hughes at No 33,  the Thomas' at No 34 and the Robinson's at No 29
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Helig on August 14, 2019, 11:08:06 AM
I think a cousin of mine was friends with some of the Algieri family. She knew one of the Lazar daughters well and they were often round to see her. The names ring a bell from the past.

Peter Kerridge is a relative of mine. The last I heard he was living in Llanrhos area. He has been living there for some years now. His mother died in 2017. I have viewed the photo in the gallery. It is great!

Helig
Title: Re: Pen Morfa Cottages
Post by: Hugo on August 14, 2019, 12:27:26 PM
Another name mentioned by SAJ was the surname Dibble.      I wonder if that person was the child of the late Kenneth Dibble who wrote so many books about the areas of Nant Y Gamar,  Bodafon and Penrhynside etc
Those booklets can be seen in the Conwy Archives and are well worth a read      $good$