Three Towns Forum

The Local => Times Past => Topic started by: SteveH on April 24, 2022, 10:26:38 am

Title: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: SteveH on April 24, 2022, 10:26:38 am
After reading this I do believe I could now be considered a local   .............  ;)

The little-known and bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow and Edinburgh
The region is rich with Brythonic history, which many centuries ago included clusters of kingdoms, bloody battles, and poetry. Traces of this forgotten land can still be found in place names to this day

Yr Hen Ogledd or the 'Old North' is perhaps the lesser known part of Wales when it comes to Welsh history. Today it stands as northern England and the southern parts of Scottish lowlands.

The region is rich with Brythonic history, which many centuries ago included clusters of kingdoms, bloody battles and poetry. Traces of its existence can still be found in place names to this day.

Here we look at the little-known and bloody history that binds Wales to places such as Carlisle, Glasgow, and Edinburgh with the help of Glen George’s Welsh language book Golwg Newydd ar yr Hen Ogledd [A New Look at the Old North].

Over in Scotland the name Glasgow is thought to derive from the Brythonic Celtic "Cleschi" meaning 'Dear Green Place'. As many of us may know 'glas' means the colour 'blue' in the Welsh language. In Brythonic Welsh however it was used to describe ‘green’ – hence why to this day we sometimes call grass 'glaswellt' in Welsh, with its literal translation meaning 'blue hay'. Edinburgh on the other hand was initially called 'Din Eidyn', which was a fortress and meant 'dun' or 'hillfort' of Eidyn in Brythonic.

cont  https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/little-known-bloody-history-binds-23732444?IYA-reg=49560bcd-5a9c-47f0-8fc5-ba2e71710589 (https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/little-known-bloody-history-binds-23732444?IYA-reg=49560bcd-5a9c-47f0-8fc5-ba2e71710589)
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Helig on April 25, 2022, 10:31:57 am
I have read that many years ago Welsh was spoken in the area up to the south of Scotland. The village where I lived is now called Sanquhar but it is a corruption of Sean Caer. This means "the old fort". Another thing I am interested in is the use of fechan in words in the south of Scotland There is Ecclefechan for a start. This is similar to Llanfairfechan.

Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: SteveH on April 25, 2022, 02:06:39 pm
I had heard of the Welsh connection with Brittany in France, but reading the above story was the first time hearing about the Scottish link.
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Hugo on April 25, 2022, 03:12:58 pm
I suppose the answer is that Britain was just one country at the time of the Roman Invasion.    The Romans built the Antonine Wall to divide the warlike Picts and Scots from the rest of Britain.     The wall stretched from the River Clyde to the Firth of Forth
Cunedda originated from the territory of Manau Gododdin, the region around what is now modern Edinburgh in southeast Scotland, and later migrated to North Wales. This movement was apparently at the behest of a higher authority and designed to offer Cunedda land in return for ousting Irish raiders who had invaded and settled along the Welsh coastline in the late 4th century, near the end of the Roman occupation.”
Language is fascinating to study and if you look at place names in northern England and Scotland you can see their connection with the Welsh language.   Fechan meaning small pops up in places as Helig has mentioned also Pen ( or Ben ) meaning top or head.    In Welsh Glas now means blue but in older Welsh it means Greeny blue.    You can see this In old Welsh names such as Maes Glass  (Green field)    Ffordd Las  (Green Road)
The Cornish language is the closest I have seen to Welsh and when I had a holiday there and bought a Cornish dictionary.    Names of places in Cornwall are very similar to those in Wales
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Ian on April 25, 2022, 07:02:59 pm
The topic of early languages in Britain is one that's always under review and with good reason. The earliest known occupation of Britain dates back to 900.000 years BCE, although this was mainly Neanderthals. Humans finally arrived around 500.000 BCE, as evidenced by fossils in Sussex, during the period when Britain wasn't an island but connected to the Continent by a chalk ridge between South East England and northern France called the Weald-Artois Anticline.

There's evidence from bones and flint tools found in coastal deposits near Happisburgh in Norfolk and Pakefield in Suffolk that a species of Homo was present in what is now Britain at least 814,000 years ago. At this time, Southern and Eastern Britain were linked to continental Europe by a wide land bridge (Doggerland) allowing humans to move freely. The species itself lived before the ancestors of Neanderthals split from the ancestors of Homo sapiens 600,000 years ago. The current position of the English Channel was a large river flowing westwards and fed by tributaries that later became the Thames and Seine. Reconstructing this ancient environment has provided clues to the route first visitors took to arrive at what was then a peninsula of the Eurasian continent.

Britain was unoccupied by humans between 180,000 and 60,000 years ago, when Neanderthals returned. By 40,000 years ago they had become extinct and modern humans had reached Britain. But even their occupations were brief and intermittent due to a climate which swung between low temperatures with a tundra habitat and severe ice ages which made Britain uninhabitable for long periods.

Written linguistic evidence only exists post-Roman occupation and opinion is divided on what preceded it. However, what is fairly well established is that we all originated in India or Africa from a small number of tribes and probably had rudimentary language skills but as soon as the great migrations from Africa got underway, tribal languages diversified.

Today the most widely spoken language is English, which has become the de facto international language.

It's also worth considering that language and religion are the two main causes of wars and genocide.
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Helig on April 26, 2022, 10:22:34 am
I found these on a search for this subject:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Strathclyde (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Strathclyde)

https://www.euppublishing.com/doi/abs/10.3366/inr.2004.55.2.111?journalCode=inr (https://www.euppublishing.com/doi/abs/10.3366/inr.2004.55.2.111?journalCode=inr)

https://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/britons.html (https://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/britons.html)

The other thing that Wales and Scotland have in common is a history of assistance from the French in times of war, or conflict. There is The Auld Alliance in Scotland and French forces assisted Owain Glyndwr in his battles with the English.

Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: SteveH on April 26, 2022, 10:45:50 am
Very interesting Helig, I did live in Govan, (mentioned in the last link) by the Clyde in the 50s. I have passed the links to my sister, who by coincidence lives in Brittany.
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Hugo on April 26, 2022, 02:05:53 pm
Just a couple of pages from my short Cornish dictionary and you can see the similarity with the Welsh language
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: SteveH on August 07, 2022, 10:10:31 am
The Snowdonia lake that's home to Wales' own Loch Ness Monster which plagued a Conwy valley
The Afanc is a legendary Welsh water monster that was said to have been relocated after flooding a Conwy community

Have you ever heard of the Afanc? According to legend there was a period in time when the good folk of Conwy were constantly tormented by terrible floods that both drowned their livestock and ruined their crops. The cause of this destruction to people?s farms and livelihood was said to not be a natural occurrence, all knew that the floods were caused by: the Afanc.

The Afanc was (or still is) a legendary Welsh water monster, likened, some have said, to the Loch Ness Monster. The Afanc lived in Llyn-yr-Afanc (The Afanc Pool) in the River Conwy. A gigantic beast who, when riled, was strong enough to break the banks of the pool causing the floods. Despite attempts to kill the creature it's hide was so tough that no spear, arrow or any man-made weapon could pierce it.

cont  https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofWales/The-Legend-of-the-River-Conwy-Afanc/

Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Helig on August 08, 2022, 10:22:12 am
It is interesting to read this. I have never heard of it before but there is more detail here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afanc

http://www.landoflegends.wales/location/llyn-yr-afanc-bettws-y-coed

It seems to be connected to the Arthurian legends and the Mabinogion.

Is anyone up for an Afanc hunt?
Title: Re: Welsh History ....
Post by: SteveH on August 08, 2022, 10:34:41 am
Helig.   Glad you liked it and thanks for the additional info.
Title: Re: Welsh History ....Christmas Day ferry boat tragedy 1806
Post by: SteveH on August 21, 2022, 10:02:55 am
A ferry boat tragedy on Christmas Day cost 12 lives and devastated communities. But the disaster which happened when a crew was taking post for the Irish Mail over the River Conwy on December 25, 1806 prompted a new era of safety.

The crew of the Conway Ferry was taking the mail from London to Dublin. But the vessel became swamped by the treacherous waters of the Conwy Estuary.

cont https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/christmas-day-ferry-boat-tragedy-24793900
Title: Re: Welsh History ....Mumbles Pier after a huge fire
Post by: SteveH on September 02, 2022, 10:17:02 am
The shocking damage to businesses on Mumbles Pier after a huge fire
Several businesses on the beloved structure have been reduced to rubble following a huge fire on Wednesday

gallery https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/gallery/shocking-damage-businesses-mumbles-pier-24903195?IYA-reg=49560bcd-5a9c-47f0-8fc5-ba2e71710589
Title: Re: Welsh History........ First humans in Llandudno after last Ice age
Post by: SteveH on October 26, 2022, 10:23:56 am
First humans in Llandudno after last Ice age related to hunter-gatherers from Italy
Early inhabitants of North Wales survived on 'large marine mammals' and were among the second wave of settlers in Britain, study finds

Research on some of the oldest known human DNA fragments from Britain has shed light on the ancestry of people who first colonised North Wales after the last Ice Age. Analysis suggests humans living in Llandudno 13,600 years ago were related to people in Italy.

Scientists in London also revealed the Llandudno group survived on a diet of freshwater food and ?large marine mammals?. By comparing their DNA with another contemporaneous group of settlers in Somerset, the researchers found they were genetically distinct, suggesting two separate waves of migration into Britain.

Human bones from each site were analysed. One was a male from Kendrick?s Cave at Great Orme?s Head, the other was a female from Gough?s Cave in Somerset. She was older, having lived 14,900 years ago.

cont https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/first-humans-llandudno-after-last-25355099
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Helig on October 26, 2022, 11:10:13 am
I read an article about this in the paper yesterday. The study was done by University College, London, London's Institute of Archaeology, The Natural History Museum and the Francis Crick Institute. It said their findings mean these genomic sequences now represent the earliest chapter of the genetic history of Britain. The woman found in Gough's Cave, Somerset, died about 15,000 years ago. Her ancestors were part of an initial immigration into North West Europe. The man found in Kendrick's Cave is from a later period about 13,500 years ago. His ancestors were part of a Western hunter gatherer group that migrated to Britain about 14,000 years ago.

The researchers said that the discovery of items such as a decorated horse jawbone at Kendrick's cave suggested it was used as a burial site.

Chemical analysis of of the bones showed that the woman from Gough's Cave ate terrestrial herbivores such as red deer, bovids (wild cattle called aurochs) and horses. The man from Kendrick's cave ate a lot of marine and freshwater foods, including large marine mammals. These finding are to be expected given that Kendrick's Cave is in close proximity to the sea. Gough's Cave is inland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gough%27s_Cave

Title: Re: Welsh History ....The great Llandudno ghost hoax
Post by: SteveH on November 06, 2022, 10:23:18 am
The great Llandudno ghost hoax that fooled the whole of Britain
Two sightings of the 'strange ghostly figure' were made on the Great Orme more than 100 years ago

On the eve of the First World War, the dramatic appearance of a ?strange ghostly figure? on the Great Orme became the talk of Llandudno. Within days, the sighting was being reported in newspapers around Britain.

A subsequent sighting prompted students of the occult to descend on the area after dark, hoping to catch sight of ?visitors from beyond the veil?. When the ghost failed to show, interest waned and Llandudno?s Great Orme apparition seemed destined to become forever condemned as supernatural mystery.

Within a fortnight, however, the veil was indeed lifted when the spectre.................... https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/great-llandudno-ghost-hoax-fooled-25438208?IYA-reg=49560bcd-5a9c-47f0-8fc5-ba2e71710589
Title: Re: Welsh History ....Llywelyn Fawr
Post by: SteveH on January 07, 2023, 10:42:10 am
The ruined Snowdonia castle on a rocky outcrop once home to the most powerful Welshman of his age
Castell y Bere was built by Llywelyn Fawr and seized by King Edward I but later abandoned by the English in the 13th Century

Strung along a jagged rocky outcrop in Eryri is the ruin of a medieval castle that was once home to the most powerful Welshman of his time. Due to its remote location at the foot of Cader Idris in the Dysynni Valley, Castell y Bere does not attract as many visitors as the Edwardian castles on the coast.

Obscured by a row of trees off the beaten path near the hamlet of Llanfihangel-y-pennant in Gwynedd, it is something of a hidden gem despite being one of the most important and well-preserved native castles in Wales. It's also as wild and remote today as it was when it was built by Llywelyn Fawr back in the early 1220's

Castell y Bere may be remote but it's relatively easy to reach if you turn onto the B4405 off the A487 then head through Abergynolwyn. There are several signs peppered along the way to help you reach the castle and it's best to follow these rather than rely on a satnav.

Read more: https://www.dailypost.co.uk/whats-on/trips-breaks/ruined-snowdonia-castle-rocky-outcrop-25910333

Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Hugo on January 07, 2023, 02:48:58 pm
Derek Brockway ( Weatherman walking ) did a particularly interesting walk from Abergynolwyn to Castell Y Bere and we followed that walk a few years ago.   The castle is free to enter and is in an outstanding location at the head of the Dysynni Valley.
Nearby is the village of Llanfihangel where Mary Jones did that 25 mile walk across the mountaind to buy a Bible in Bala.   We did the first  part of the walk (About 2 miles ) and it was tough going and we had good walking gear whilst Mary did it in bare feet.
I remember the walk very well and also that we had to leave old Uncle Albert at the roadside while we walked back to the village to collect our car
Well worth a visit if you are in that area
Title: Re: Welsh History ....
Post by: SteveH on January 08, 2023, 10:25:39 am
How North Wales pilot trained pioneering aviator Amy Johnson and a Prince of Wales
The Llanfairfechan war hero served in all three branches of the Armed Forces and was shot in the neck at Gallipoli

A North Wales pilot had the distinction of training a host of illustrious students to fly. Captain Valentine Baker, of Llanfairfechan, instructed Amy Johnson, the first woman to fly solo to Australia in 1931, and even the then Prince of Wales.

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/how-north-wales-pilot-trained-25904398?IYA-reg=49560bcd-5a9c-47f0-8fc5-ba2e71710589
Title: Re: Welsh History ....Ewloe Castle
Post by: SteveH on January 28, 2023, 10:26:54 am
Ewloe Castle was one of the last castles to be built by the native Princes of Wales. Unlike some of the other fortifications built in North Wales in the 13th century, the origins of the castle is shrouded in mystery.

The earliest reference to the castle from the time is that in 1257 Llywelyn ap Gruffydd built "a castle in the corner of the woods" - and that's it, according to Cadw. Things were moving rapidly for the Prince of Wales at the time. He had defeated his brothers in battle and had succeeded in pushing the English back to the border, retaking his family's land around Ewloe.

It's likely there was a structure in place there before and that the Prince of Wales added to it around this time, but the castle's history is a little murky due to the lack of records from the period. It was abandoned at the beginning of Edward I's invasion of Wales in 1277 and left to ruin thereafter.

fullarticle and link to video/photo gallery   https://www.dailypost.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/ruined-north-wales-castle-hidden-26068105
Title: Re: Welsh History ....Llys Rhosyr
Post by: SteveH on April 09, 2023, 10:37:55 am
Llys Rhosyr medieval court of Welsh princes bought by Cadw

One of the royal courts of the Princes of Gwynedd has been bought by Wales' historic buildings organisation, Cadw.

Llys Rhosyr, near Newborough, Anglesey, is the only court of the Welsh Princes in Wales with visible remains that can be visited by the public.

It was "significant" in the Middle Ages and believed to have been used to administer justice and collect rents.

Other similar sites are known from documents or have been suggested from partial excavations.

But Llys Rhosyr is the only undefended court of the Welsh princes confirmed through archaeological excavation.

The site, which was bought for ?17,000, has been designated as a scheduled monument by Cadw.

cont https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65197383
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Hugo on April 09, 2023, 04:26:22 pm
I'm pleased that the site is in the hands of Cadw as it will be there for future generations to visit and I believe there are more ruins there waiting to be excavated
I was told a story about the excavations going on in 1992, the archaeologists were using ground radar to look for the site but were having no luck,   A local person asked them what they were doing and when the archaeologist explained the reason the man said that you are looking in the wrong field but the archaeologist argued that they had a map and were looking in the correct spot.   Anyway the local said that the field opposite was always called Cae Llys ( field of the Court )and when they used ground radar in Cae Llys the location was found straight away
Title: Re: Welsh History ....Bryn Pydew Obelisk.
Post by: SteveH on April 23, 2023, 10:10:08 am
The controversial history of hill monument seen by thousands of drivers everyday
Dozens fought to have monument removed, but 30 years later it's still about.

Stuck upon a hill overlooking Conwy and Llandudno Junction is a towering structure that appears to be some fragment of the history of North Wales. This tower, which is seen by thousands drivers every single day, can be easily spotted from the A55, and the A470 driving into Llandudno.

This structure is the Bryn Pydew Obelisk, built on the grounds of the Bodysgallen Hall Hotel at Ffrith Hill, and it is not some ancient Welsh monument but a much more recent build. Built in 1992, the structure is a modern folly built not to commemorate any event, but to match up with similar monuments, such as Cleopatra's Needle in London.

cont https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nostalgia/controversial-history-hill-monument-seen-26743840
Title: Re: Welsh History ...........John Williams of Conwy
Post by: SteveH on April 30, 2023, 09:57:31 am
Conwy man who became Archbishop of York and was twice imprisoned in Tower of London
He was at the death bed of King James I and closed his eyes when he passed away

He reached the heights of society but is a neglected figure in history. John Williams was born in Conwy and was imprisoned in the Tower of London twice - but he went on to become Archbishop of York.

Few may know this 17th century statesman's name but this year - 400 years on from his heyday in 1623 - seems as good a time as any to revisit this fascinating figure. Williams, who was born in 1582 and died in 1650,was born in a house called Parlwr Mawr, in Chapel Street, Conwy, which was only demolished in the 1950s.

He was related to the influential merchants, the Wynn family. Local historian Vicky Macdonald said: "He was an extremely intelligent young man and at the age of six, aided by a scholarship, attended Ruthin School where he excelled and became head boy.

cont https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/conwy-man-who-became-archbishop-26798609
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Hugo on May 17, 2023, 03:18:20 pm
I went to the Bryn Pydew obelisk this morning with Mrs H to show her the Obelisk and also the thousands of Cowslips that appear there at this time of year
Unfortunately the Cowslips were past their best but still put on a good show.  Purple Orchids, primroses and many other variety of flowers were also there.
After seeing the obelisk I took Mrs H on a tour of the village and we had a nice chat with a local man and by coincidence he may be a distant relative of mine.
Mrs H even spotted a house she would like to live in but the roads to and from the village put her off the idea
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Hammy on May 17, 2023, 04:55:49 pm
Hugo, You and Mrs H should have called in for a cuppa this morning as you were so close! A glorious day to enjoy the tremendous views.
Title: Re: North Wales History .... Sinking of the Rothsay Castle
Post by: SteveH on May 18, 2023, 09:48:30 am
The sinking of the Rothsay Castle: A Welsh Titanic in 1831
Inquest on a disaster which led to the loss of 130 lives, condemned the state of the ship and the captain's conduct

If anyone is asked to name a famous Anglesey shipwreck, the sinking of the Royal Charter, off Moelfre, in 1859 would be the one most likely to come to mind, but in 1831 there was another marine tragedy where most of the passengers died.

The paddle steamer Rothsay Castle was built in 1816, and was originally used for service on the River Clyde, in Scotland. She was later transferred to the Liverpool and Beaumaris Packet Company, where she was used for day trips along the coast of North Wales.

Her final journey, which resulted in the death of 130 passengers, with only 23 survivors, took place on August 17, 1831. She left Liverpool at midday with 153 passengers, and was meant to leave at 10am, but was delayed by adverse weather and the late arrival of a passenger.

cont https://www.inyourarea.co.uk/news/the-wreck-of-the-rothsay-castle-a-welsh-titanic-in-1831/
Title: Re: Welsh History ....Llys Euryn in Rhos on Sea
Post by: SteveH on June 19, 2023, 10:13:27 am
Spent many a happy hour running around that area, up and down the bryn..........

The ruined medieval North Wales manor house with a link to an English civil war
Llys Euryn in Rhos on Sea was once a 'huge and extravagant' fortress

A largely ruined medieval manor house with craggy walls hint at a landmark with an intriguing history. Constructed in the mid 15th Century in Rhos-on-Sea, what is now called Llys Euryn was built for Robin the eldest son of Gruffydd Goch who led the old Welsh tribal division of Rhos.

Visitors climbing the steps to it are rewarded with a display board telling how it was called Bryn Euryn before its name was changed to Llys Euryn. It's next to Bryn Euryn nature reserve which is much-loved by ramblers and dogwalkers alike.

cont https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/ruined-medieval-north-wales-manor-27131870
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Hugo on June 19, 2023, 04:20:23 pm
It's worth seeing and must have been very impressive in its time.  According to a book by Norman Tucker Ednyfed Fychan seneschal of Llewelyn Fawr lived there in the 13th century and Robin ap Gruffydd Goch took possession of the ruins in the reign of Henry VI and turned it into a palatial home
Title: Re: Welsh History ....PENRHYN OLD HALL
Post by: SteveH on August 18, 2023, 10:22:53 am
The intriguing story of the first printing press on Welsh soil
A Catholic group printed a book in a North Wales cave when Roman Catholicism and owning a private press were both considered treasonous activities

The outskirts of a North Wales seaside resort might seem to be an unlikely location to conduct secret operations away from the prying eyes of the authorities. The clandestine operation referred to also had the distinction of producing the first book to be printed in Wales.

cont https://www.inyourarea.co.uk/news/a-clandestine-printing-press-in-a-llandudno-cave/ :565:
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Hugo on August 19, 2023, 10:16:57 am
It's a shame that the Chapel was left to go derelict and I believe that there were still services there in the very early 1900's
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Helig on August 19, 2023, 10:53:27 am
Is that the chapel of Penrhyn Old Hall? I remember seeing this back in the 1960s but don't recall more details. There was a story that they found a tunnel running from the chapel of Penrhyn Old Hall to the cave on the Little Orme where the printing press was found. This was supposed to have been used by the Catholic group to be able to operate clandestinely.
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Hugo on August 19, 2023, 12:02:07 pm
That is the one Helig, it's in a field between Penrhyn Old Hall and Batty's Nurseries.      I've also heard stories about the tunnel and that they had found a tunnel when they built the tramline on Penrhyn Hill but I've
heard no more about it.
I know roughly where the printing press cage is but resisted any attempts to go there as the Little Orme can be dangerous to explore.
Two ghosts are said to still haunt the Old Hall, one is a young female descendant of the Pugh family who was murdered to stop her marrying a protestant.    The other is a monk who is said to walk about upstairs above the Baronial Hall
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Helig on August 20, 2023, 03:04:23 pm
I have been in the cave some years ago when I lived in Penrhyn Bay and used to walk on the Little Orme down to Angel's Bay. It isn't for the faint hearted, nor is the trip to get down there.
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Hugo on August 20, 2023, 06:04:19 pm
You're much braver than me Helig,  I was always told by my parents to keep away from the Little Orme as it was dangerous

u're https://historypoints.org/index.php?page=the-little-orme

While on the subject of caves, here's a link to caves on the Great Orme
https://www.northwalesholidaycottages.co.uk/other-information/blog/enjoying-north-wales/caves-of-the-great-orme/






Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Helig on August 21, 2023, 10:50:19 am
Thank you for these links. I used to explore the caves on the Great Orme but wasn't able to see the ones that were difficult to access. My mother used to speak about going to Pigeon's Cave in her younger days. I didn't fancy being caught out when the tide flooded it. At one time someone did walks to see the caves round the West Shore. He claimed these were used by pilgrims and travellers. I went in one of my own accord to find it decorated and festooned with all sorts of flowers. There were other items in there for people to use. It was suspected this was some sort of publicity stunt. Is that correct?
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Hugo on August 21, 2023, 12:58:41 pm
Helig,  In my teens I used to go to Pigeon's Cove for a swim.     The ledge had a small shaft with a metal ladder going down to the bottom of the shaft where you could go into a small cave.    There was also an opening in the cliff face and another ladder took you down to the beach
At high tide I'd dive off the ledge and then climb back using the ladders that were fixed to the rock.     One year I went there by myself and just dived into the sea from the ledge but when I went to where the ladders where I found that they had gone so I was left with no alternative other than to swim out to sea and look for a suitable place to climb up the rocks.   Look before you leap was quite an appropriate saying.       Contrary to what anyone else says those ladders had not rusted away, they were deliberately removed and probably on the landowners instructions
The only cave I can think of with a Pilgrims or travellers connection is Ogaf Llech just below the lighthouse but the grotto there was built by Lord Mostyn hundreds of years ago.   It's been on TV a few times
Was the cave you went in called Ogof Arth just above the Gogarth Abbey Hotel before Anwyl Construction vandalised it.      I've often seen notes placed there and candles too.    In fact in the mid 1800's it was the home of another cave dweller and he along with Isaac Jones was also listed on some Census records
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Helig on August 23, 2023, 10:59:06 am
Yes, that was the cave I went in. There was another one quite close to it. Was that Toby's cave?
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Hugo on August 23, 2023, 12:19:11 pm
Helig, there are a number of caves nearby but "Toby's Cave"  is actually Ogof Arth or in English Bear's Cave.      I've got a map called Secrets of the Great Orme and it has a load of interesting things on it such as caves etc  and I've found it very handy when I've had a walk on the Great Orme

I think the name Toby's Cave came from when some vandals painted the name above the entrance to the cave in the late 1990's
In fact I've just seen a video when I put " Toby's Cave Great Orme"  in Google search.        The video is 5 minutes of rubbish so I haven't posted the link but the guy in the video says that it is called Toby's Cave because Toby lived there.
In the mid 1800's someone did live there but from memory he wasn't called Toby.    In fact his name was John Stephens a Liverpool born farm labourer.    In the mid 1800's he was visited at the cave by Lady Mostyn who sent him an iron bed to add to his bits of furniture
Title: Re: Welsh History ....eerie Barclodiad Y Gawres
Post by: SteveH on September 03, 2023, 10:06:27 am
In Pictures: The enigmatic and eerie Barclodiad Y Gawres
An ancient tomb preserved into the modern day

It's not often you find clues of the way our ancestors used to live. But at Barclodiad Y Gawres - or the Giantess's Apronful as it is known - that's exactly what is on offer.

The ancient burial mound above ground has been added more recently, but below it is a passageway and chamber lined with patterns. It is one of only two tombs in the UK that was marked in such a way, along with nearby Bryn Celli Ddu.

The chamber also has the remains of an ancient fire, with two cremated men found when the site was excavated. The fire also contained ingredients from a stew made of eel, frog and snakes, to name just a few ingredients.

cont plus photos  https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/gallery/pictures-enigmatic-eerie-barclodiad-y-27438236
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Hugo on September 03, 2023, 01:41:33 pm
It's worth having a look at if you are in that area.   There's car parking nearby and Cable Bay is a pretty beach and the monument is only a very short walk from the car park
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Helig on September 04, 2023, 10:13:51 am
I visited this place some years ago and went in Barclodiad Y Gawres, or at least I think it was that one of the two. It was a lovely summer's day and going into the dark stillness of the burial mound was an amazing experience. Cable Bay is a beautiful spot too and doesn't get crowded even on a hot day (well it hasn't when I have been there). It is well worth a visit. I take it the burial mounds are still open to the public?
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Hugo on September 04, 2023, 10:41:32 am
Last time I went there they were not open to the public and the metal gates were locked.   However there was a notice saying that if anyone wanted to go inside the chamber then the key was at a nearby property
I wanted to see the " Irish " type symbols carved on to the stones but was unable to do that on my last visit there
Bryn Celli Ddu is open to the public and is well worth a visit too
Title: Re: Welsh History ....14 Welsh homes that tell the story of our past
Post by: SteveH on September 25, 2023, 09:48:02 am
14 Welsh homes that tell the story of our past
Steeped in history, these houses are either known for being overtly different from the rest, or have been homes to our most notable figures

For years, Wales has been known for its castles which represent our heritage, ancestors and history. In fact, it's hard to ignore them as there are more than 600 of them in the country - more per square mile than anywhere in the world.

But, Wales also has its fair share of famous houses. These houses are either known for being overtly different from the rest, or have been homes to our most notable figures.

cont https://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/14-welsh-homes-tell-story-27746315?IYA-reg=49560bcd-5a9c-47f0-8fc5-ba2e71710589
Title: Re: Welsh History ....Iron Age: How Wales was ruled from hillforts pre-Romans
Post by: SteveH on December 10, 2023, 10:51:07 am
Welsh leaders before the Roman invasion ruled from hillforts whose stone ruins still overlook every part of the country, an archaeologist has said.

Aberystwyth-based Toby Driver said there were "big stories" still to be told about Wales' 764 Iron Age hillforts.

One of the largest, Garn Goch, looms over Bethlehem in Carmarthenshire.

Villagers said they "respect" the sprawling monument, but know little about the people who built it.

"People get very excited about the pyramids of Egypt and monuments around the world," Mr Driver said.

"We should be getting excited about this incredible hillfort heritage we have in Wales."

His new book, Hillforts of Iron Age Wales, includes illustrations showing what these "vibrant hill top villages" would have looked like 2,500 years ago.

cont https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-67285857
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Helig on December 11, 2023, 09:53:21 am
There is a superb iron age hill fort on Penycloddiau, which is in the Clwydian range of hills. This is accessible quite easily and the views up there are wonderful. At the same time, Offa's Dyke runs along the top of this hill. It is great to walk over both of them as you reach the summit.
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Hugo on December 11, 2023, 11:33:07 am
There are some great hillforts on the Clwydian range and I've visited most of them thanks to my walking mates Tellytubby and Rhuddlan who introduced me to them.
Another of my favourites there is Moel Fenlli but they are all worth visiting
Title: Re: Welsh History ...............Sailing skills of the past
Post by: SteveH on December 17, 2023, 09:54:41 am
The group using sailing skills of the past to reopen historic trade routes
The project aims to harness the power of the wind to transport goods by sail around the coasts of Wales and beyond

A Bangor nautical venture is navigating the future using maritime traditions and sailing skills of the past. Among its many objectives Celtic Coasts Sail and Trade, a Community Benefit Society, is hoping to harness the power of the wind to transport goods by sail around the coasts of Wales and beyond.

The group has been restoring a traditional Morecambe Bay Prawner, Mystery II, at Port Penrhyn for use as a dedicated cargo vessel for sail trading. The project, at the Waterfront Marine boatyard, has used timber from the forests of Conwy and Gwynedd.

cont https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/group-using-sailing-skills-past-28292596?IYA-reg=49560bcd-5a9c-47f0-8fc5-ba2e71710589
Title: Re: Welsh History ....Ancient road that runs entire length of Wales
Post by: SteveH on March 23, 2024, 09:54:39 am
From the Nottingham Post !   ...............

The ancient road that runs entire length of Wales forgotten for centuries
The cobbled road stretches from Neath to Conwy and is named after a Celtic princess

Wales is home to one of the best-kept secrets in the country - a Roman road that runs its entire length, yet many people don't even know it's there. The cobbled remains of Sarn Helen stretch from Neath in the south to Conwy in the north.

Although mostly hidden, parts of the track have been revealed due to centuries of use. History buffs who are aware of its existence often walk along it, with some saying they can almost hear the echoes of Roman boots that once marched along.

Built nearly 2,000 years ago, Sarn Helen is believed to be named after Celtic princess Elen Lwy-ddawg, also known as Saint Elen, who was married to the feared Roman emperor Magnus Maximus. It's thought that she convinced her husband to build roads across the country to help his soldiers defend it more easily.

You can find large standing stones along certain parts of the road, some as tall as 13ft. These stones are older than the Roman occupation of Britain.

cont https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/uk-world-news/ancient-road-runs-entire-length-9185045?IYA-reg=49560bcd-5a9c-47f0-8fc5-ba2e71710589
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Hugo on March 23, 2024, 05:56:35 pm
That's an interesting article to read Steve, thanks for posting it.    Sarn Helen goes through the deserted village of Rhiwddolion and there is a long stretch of it in Cwm Penamnen ( Dolwyddelan )  before it goes up over the mountains to Tomen Y Mur and onwards to South Wales
Title: Re: Welsh History ....bloody history that binds Wales to Glasgow
Post by: Hugo on March 31, 2024, 10:06:36 am
There was another article in the Daily Post about Sarn Helen
"Astonishing 160-mile road running down from North Wales that's hidden in plain sight
It's been around for 2,000 years but few people know of its existence"


https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/astonishing-160-mile-road-running-28906488
Title: Re: Welsh History ....'Lady of the Little Orme' at Llandudno Museum
Post by: SteveH on April 07, 2024, 09:38:38 am
How hard working 'Lady of the Little Orme' was years ahead of her time
Skeletal remains dating from 3,500BC and found in crevice by 19th Century engineer can still teach us lessons today

Researchers have found a Neolithic woman who more than pulled her weight with heavy lifting as long ago as 3,500BC. Her remains, which were discovered in a crevice on Llandudno's Little Orme in the 19th Century, shed light on women's emancipation as long ago as the Stone Age.

Scores of history buffs will be able to learn all about this Lady of the Little Orme at Llandudno Museum https://llandudnomuseum.co.uk/
this year. Her remaining bones are among an astonishing 9,000 artefacts at the centre, although there isn't room for all of them to be on display.

cont/photo https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/how-hard-working-lady-little-28925445?IYA-reg=49560bcd-5a9c-47f0-8fc5-ba2e71710589