Three Towns Forum - Talk about Llandudno, Colwyn Bay & Conwy

The Local => Times Past => Topic started by: Anthony.G on February 20, 2011, 08:43:09 PM

Title: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Anthony.G on February 20, 2011, 08:43:09 PM
Hello,  I wonder if anyone has any info on the Jesmond Hotel that used to be in Llandudno.
      My Mom and Dad, Arthur and Amy Gee worked in this hotel before the War, All that I know is that Jesmond was owned by a Mrs Morris and during the war was used by the Inland Revenue. After the war the Hotel was turned into flats. Now Jesmond is part of the County Hotel which is on the Prom at the other end to the pier.
      My parents, no longer with us, loved Llandudno and my wife and I do love to visit the town.
     I do hope that someone can help.
     Bye the way, I am impressed with this forum.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Fester on February 20, 2011, 09:41:21 PM
Hi Anthony.

Well done for joining the happy band of forum contributors.
It seems like you have quite a bit of information already, what would you like to know?
Then the 'brains' of this forum (and there are many of them) will no doubt swing into action on your behalf!


Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on February 20, 2011, 09:42:38 PM
Here's an advert from 1941 for the Jesmond Hotel:

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Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Anthony.G on February 20, 2011, 10:04:29 PM
Hello Dave R, Thank you for the poster advertising Jesmond. I am very pleased.
 Hello Fester, I would like to find out anything about the hotel, there may be some pictures somewhere.
  I have stayed at the County, and have been in the part that was once Jesmond and it might seem silly, but I find it a bit atmospheric to stand where my parents worked before I was born.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: brumbob on February 20, 2011, 10:17:15 PM
Welcome Anthony, if anyone can find a photo Dave can.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on February 20, 2011, 10:22:51 PM
I have a postcard of the County Hotel in the 1960s - was the Jesmond on the right-hand side (looking at the photo)?

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(Click image to see full size version)
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Trojan on February 21, 2011, 04:21:19 AM
 :) These two are circa 1911 Anthony - a little before your parents worked at the Jesmond in the 1920's & 30's.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Trojan on February 21, 2011, 04:22:10 AM
 :)
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Anthony.G on February 21, 2011, 08:30:05 AM
Hello DavidR and Trojan, Thanks for the photo's. Jesmond was to the right on the photo's. Looking at the inside of the  County Hotel  it would appear that it is made up of three former establishments. Craig-y-Don,    ----------------? and Jesmond. On the 1911 picture the central hotel has a sign but I cannot make it out. Any idea's?     
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Bri Roberts on February 21, 2011, 08:47:54 AM
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it would appear that it is made up of three former establishments.

This is quite common on Llandudno Promenade.

The Four Oaks Hotel, further away in the photograph, also comprises three former establishments.

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I find it a bit atmospheric to stand where my parents worked before I was born.

By coincidence, I had the same experiece when spending all of the summer of 1993 at the Four Oaks Hotel with my family after the 1993 Flood Disaster and in the section where my Nain had lived and worked at the beginning of the twentieth century

Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: suepp on February 21, 2011, 11:14:12 AM
Looking in the 1929 Directory there is some confusing information, :
East Parade:
Craig-y-Don Hotel - Edward Edge,
1 Jesmond (Llandudno Ltd) - (Annexe) Nicholas T Morris,
 2 Miss B.L. Perrin Apartments,
 3 Mrs Mary Williams Apartments
 Ormescliffe Private Hotel, Mrs C Allan Smith,
Here is a Pillar Letterbox.
 Jesmond (Llandudno Ltd.) - Nicholas T Morris, boarding establishment, 
The Craig - y Don Boarding Establishment - Middleton and Wood
Then it goes onto Craig-y-don parade
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Nemesis on February 21, 2011, 11:15:49 AM
I seem to remember a pic of my father's parents in a group outside the Sunnyside Hotel, these group photos seemed to be the 'in' thing in those days. They used to take the train to Liverpool and sail to Llandudno for their hols.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Trojan on February 21, 2011, 05:33:29 PM
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I seem to remember a pic of my father's parents in a group outside the Sunnyside Hotel, these group photos seemed to be the 'in' thing in those days. They used to take the train to Liverpool and sail to Llandudno for their hols.

Here's a group photo outside the Craig-y-Don Hotel:
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Trojan on February 21, 2011, 05:38:53 PM
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Hello DavidR and Trojan, Thanks for the photo's. Jesmond was to the right on the photo's. Looking at the inside of the  County Hotel  it would appear that it is made up of three former establishments. Craig-y-Don,    ----------------? and Jesmond. On the 1911 picture the central hotel has a sign but I cannot make it out. Any idea's?     

On the promenade side it said "Boarding Establishment" then to the right "The Craig-y-Don". On the Queens Road side above the veranda it also said "The Craig-y-Don"
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Trojan on February 21, 2011, 05:44:28 PM
Here's a better view from the 1930's of where the Jesmond would have been (just to the left of the saloon car on the promenade) - In between the Craig-y-Don Hotel (today'sCounty) and the Ormescliffe (today's Regency Royal)
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Anthony.G on February 21, 2011, 05:55:03 PM
Hello,  I would like to thank everyone who has replied to my post.  I realise now that the Craig-y-Don was a much bigger hotel in the 1020's-30's than I thought. There is, in the County, an old picture from around 1900 which seems to indicate that the Craig-y-Don's main entrance, at that time, was in the road off the promenade.
I do wish that I had taken more notice when my parents spoke of their time in Llandudno, Perhaps most of us dont listen till it is too late.
The photo of people outside the Craig-y-Don is very impressive. Who knows, there may be a similar picture of Jesmond.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Anthony.G on February 22, 2011, 09:04:40 AM
 :
East Parade:
Craig-y-Don Hotel - Edward Edge,
1 Jesmond (Llandudno Ltd) - (Annexe) Nicholas T Morris,
 2 Miss B.L. Perrin Apartments,
 3 Mrs Mary Williams Apartments
 Ormescliffe Private Hotel, Mrs C Allan Smith,
Here is a Pillar Letterbox.
 Jesmond (Llandudno Ltd.) - Nicholas T Morris, boarding establishment, 
The Craig - y Don Boarding Establishment - Middleton and Wood
Then it goes onto Craig-y-don parade

I do remember Mom saying that Jesmond had an annexe, whether it was for staff of guests I don't know. I don't know were the annexe was but it must have been close to the Hotel.
 
 
 
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on February 22, 2011, 10:34:42 AM
Topic created from Welcome.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Yorkie on February 24, 2011, 12:22:19 PM
I think you will find that it was bought by Robert Clare Baxter of Clare's Department Store.  On his death in 1950 it passed into the hands of his Daughter, Marjorie Gadd (nee Baxter).  It was run as Holiday Flats until she sold the Jesmond to the County Hotel in the 90's.  She also owned and ran (with her Sister) Baxter's Bon Man's and Ladies' Outfitters in Mostyn Street.  Now Ponden Mill.
 )*)&

Some may also remember Gadabout Travel that was operated by Mrs Gadd arranging villa holidays to the Algarve.    D)
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Anthony.G on February 24, 2011, 03:17:59 PM
That is very interesting. Thank you.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Yorkie on February 25, 2011, 01:08:57 PM
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Here's a better view from the 1930's of where the Jesmond would have been (just to the left of the saloon car on the promenade) - In between the Craig-y-Don Hotel (today'sCounty) and the Ormescliffe (today's Regency Royal)

The Jesmond is the First one with the lower roof line next to the Ormescliffe. 
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Anthony.G on April 13, 2011, 02:06:08 PM
Hello, Does anyone know if Mr and Mrs Morris, one time owners of Jemond, had a son named Marcus.
From an old paper of my Fathers I have a Marcus Morris living at 'Ashleigh', Deganwy Avenue. in the 1960's. I presume that this is a Llandudno address.
       Best wishes Tony
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: suepp on April 13, 2011, 05:50:04 PM
Deganwy Avenue is in Llandudno. I have a directory from 1969, but no listing for Morris. I looked in the listings for Deganwy Road (which is the main road between Llanrhos and Deganwy) and there is an "Ashlea" there but the householder's name is Parsons.

Unfortunately the 1969 directory does not have alphabetical residential listings, unlike the 1929 one.  :-[
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Micox on April 17, 2011, 05:14:17 PM
Hello all.

Just a bit of inconsequential info. When I was a regular user of the skating rink in the early/mid 1950s, one of the expert roller dancers was Louise Bright from the Ormescliffe hotel and, to be impolitically incorrect, she was a corker!  WWW
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: lorri on July 20, 2011, 11:50:08 AM
can anyone remember a hotel or guest house called *THE BRYN* it was on queens road,craig-y-don probaby before 1960's

also can anyone tell me if the imperial hotel is still around or does anyone know people that worked there in 1955/1960 ?
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on July 20, 2011, 11:55:35 AM
Yes, 'The Bryn' is a block of flats now.

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1941 Advert

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1954 Advert

The Imperial is still one of Llandudno's leading hotels:
http://www.theimperial.co.uk/ (http://www.theimperial.co.uk/)
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: lorri on July 20, 2011, 01:01:08 PM
wow david thanks so much for that info and the photographs....my dad & his sister apparently lived there with there dad around 1945/1950 there was talk that he owned the bryn but his name was james barr which isnt the name showing as propietor think ive got more digging to do now thanks again.  $thanx$ $good$ :D
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Nemesis on July 20, 2011, 03:44:17 PM
Like the Oak Floor bit !
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: lorri on July 26, 2011, 01:07:34 PM
Hi again  :)
does anyone remember when the bryn was turned into flats ? or who owned the bryn after 1954 ? ive looked all over interent for any info but just cant find anything  $thanx$
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: emma p on August 14, 2011, 01:30:33 PM
Im now looking into the history of The Four Oaks Hotel, 1-4 Penryhn Crescent. Does anyone know when these building were turned into a hotel ? I have found 1-4 Penryhn Crescent on a listed buildings site which says Quote- ' A terrace of 6 houses built in the mid to late 19th century as properties for long seasonal letting to superior families. Numbers 1-4 now combined as The Four Oaks.'
My great grandmother is listed as living here at number 1 in 1906(aged 22)......i would presume as a servant of some kind. At the age of 17 on the 1901 census she was still living in Wednesbury so maybe answered an advertisement for a position in the house.
Would be grateful of any early photographs too ?
thanks , em.  ;)
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Welshmaid on August 16, 2011, 06:07:46 PM
Does anyone know where the Norwood Hotel, Llandudno used to be please?   I have found a photograph of my grandparents on the wide steps outside the hotel, dated 1928.   Many thanks
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: suepp on August 16, 2011, 06:19:00 PM
Hi there,  Norwood boarding establishment was at 4, Mostyn Avenue Craig-y-Don. Any chance you could post the photo?
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Bri Roberts on August 16, 2011, 06:24:40 PM
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Im now looking into the history of The Four Oaks Hotel, 1-4 Penryhn Crescent.

Does anyone know when these building were turned into a hotel ? 

I may be in a position to put you in touch with the family who owned and ran the hotel for a very long time before they sold up around five years ago.

They are family friends of ours.

If you are interested, emma p, I can approach them to find out if I may pass on their home telephone number to you.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: suepp on August 16, 2011, 06:31:18 PM
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Im now looking into the history of The Four Oaks Hotel, 1-4 Penryhn Crescent. Does anyone know when these building were turned into a hotel ? I have found 1-4 Penryhn Crescent on a listed buildings site which says Quote- ' A terrace of 6 houses built in the mid to late 19th century as properties for long seasonal letting to superior families. Numbers 1-4 now combined as The Four Oaks.'
My great grandmother is listed as living here at number 1 in 1906(aged 22)......i would presume as a servant of some kind. At the age of 17 on the 1901 census she was still living in Wednesbury so maybe answered an advertisement for a position in the house.
Would be grateful of any early photographs too ?
thanks , em.  ;)

In 1929 Penrhyn Crescent lists the following: 1. Four Oaks  - Yates Mrs I.J. boarding house
2. St. Athans Pole A. & Smith J. Misses, apartments, 3.Claremont - Howell The Misses N & F & L Apartments, 4, Plas Pabo,  Wood Mrs. E. 5. East Lynne Gammon Jack. 6. Sefton Gate Levis John William, boarding estb. 1 Sefton Gate Cottage - Rogers Collin, 2 Sefton Gate Cottage Quinton G. then "Here is Gwynedd Road"
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on August 16, 2011, 06:43:19 PM
Didn't Gwynedd Road used to be that little road at the side of the North Wales Theatre (now vanished under the new extension)?
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: suepp on August 16, 2011, 07:06:20 PM
I think so Dave  running past the Cae Mor hotel. The next listing in the 1929 directory is  the Arcadia Palais De Danse
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: dwsi on August 16, 2011, 07:36:53 PM
Gwynedd Rd still exists as the road leading to the rear of the theatre http://bit.ly/rhOzPW (http://bit.ly/rhOzPW)
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on August 16, 2011, 07:53:08 PM
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Gwynedd Rd still exists as the road leading to the rear of the theatre http://bit.ly/rhOzPW (http://bit.ly/rhOzPW)
You know, I knew I'd seen that name somewhere recently and that was it. It used to connect Mostyn Broadway with the Prom before the Theatre was built. Here's a photo of it from 1972:

(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1061/5105821168_7004b29e42_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/36759493@N07/5105821168/)
Llandudno Coach Station about 1972 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/36759493@N07/5105821168/#) by Eagle 142 (http://www.flickr.com/people/36759493@N07/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: suepp on August 16, 2011, 08:01:17 PM
looking at dwsi's link I realise I'd thought the Cae Mor was much nearer to the Theatre than it actually is, but what was there before the car park, was it Kiddies Funland? it's quite a large area, just can't remember !
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on August 16, 2011, 08:08:09 PM
It was Cae Mor, then Kiddies Funland, then Gwynedd Road, then the Arcadia...I think!

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That circular ride in the foreground is where Catlins cafe in the Theatre is now.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: suepp on August 16, 2011, 08:17:40 PM
This advert is  the Four Oaks in 1934, note the comment "Back  entirely Open to Mountains"!
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: dwsi on August 16, 2011, 08:25:06 PM
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It was Cae Mor, then Kiddies Funland, then Gwynedd Road, then the Arcadia...I think!

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That circular ride in the foreground is where Catlins cafe in the Theatre is now.

more info on 'Kiddie's Funland' http://bit.ly/qt0Is8 (http://bit.ly/qt0Is8)
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: emma p on August 16, 2011, 08:37:18 PM
Wow...it looks stunning ! thanks guys.
Yes Bri that would be great and could help alot with our quest.
I did ring the hotel and spoke to a lovely lady but unfortunately couldnt help and didnt think the current owners would have any old records as they wouldnt really be interested in 'that sort of thing'.....but she did put me onto a bit of a lead.
If you google The Four Oaks theres a link to 'findthehotel.co.uk' and if you scroll down to the reviews you come to one from a David Yates who states that the hotel was owned by his grandmother Mrs Ivy Simpson !
The name stated on Daves lovely picture.
The funny coincidence is that as i went into my story with this lady is that her grandmother lived in Tan-yr-gogo cottages and she herself lives in Kings Road.....wierd or what !
Love the picture of the fair.....i remember it well as a child and always went on the last night of our hols for a treat. Happy days. :D
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Bri Roberts on August 17, 2011, 07:54:59 AM
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It was Cae Mor, then Kiddies Funland, then Gwynedd Road, then the Arcadia...I think!

It was Cae Mor, Kiddies Funland, Gwynedd Road, Aberconwy Centre and then the Arcadia.

emma p, I will get back to you in due course.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on August 17, 2011, 08:02:56 AM
What was on the Aberconwy Centre site before that was built? I can't remember....  :(
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Yorkie on August 17, 2011, 08:15:35 AM
Putting Green or Crazy Golf???   :D
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Bri Roberts on August 17, 2011, 08:37:02 AM
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What was on the Aberconwy Centre site before that was built? I can't remember....  :(

Neither can I.  :(

Yorkie, are you getting confused with the pitch and put between the Grand Theatre and St Pauls Church House?
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Yorkie on August 17, 2011, 11:24:17 AM
I possibly am Bri,  my knowledge of the past is quite sketchy as all the old memories are from when I came up with the Mrs to spend the weekends with the inlaws in Rhos.      Z**

Wasn't there also a rather poor quality skate park there at one time?    :D
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Yorkie on August 17, 2011, 11:59:05 AM
What is now the Cae Mor car park was Abergaveny Road.  Then there was a patch of empty ground next to the new theatre which they built the Cafe on.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on August 19, 2011, 08:02:25 PM
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Wasn't there also a rather poor quality skate park there at one time?    :D
The Skate Park is where the Theatre Car Park is now, between the Swimming Pool and LSP Garage.

Here's a pic of Gwynedd Road from the 1970s, showing that the answer to our question about what was next to the Arcadia is...a piece of wasteland with a stone wall around it!
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: suepp on August 19, 2011, 08:37:50 PM
I think that was originally the skating rink
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: emma p on August 24, 2011, 09:49:27 AM
Hi all,
Im once again in need of your knowledge !
I discovered yesterday that my Great-great Grandmother Mary Thomas was, in 1876 aged 21, working as a housemaid at The Royal Hotel, Church Walks.

This, i found on her marriage certificate to Enoch Roberts, of Ty-ny-coed aged 23.
Mary was possibly born in Penmon, Anglesey and her fathers name was Lewis Thomas.
Enochs father was Richard Roberts. I have them living at 3, Pendyffren, Glanwydden in the 1860 census.

I did ring the royal yesterday and asked if they knew of any old records. The girl i spoke to was going to ring back but not heard anything. Suppose it was a bit of a longshot !
I will also try the archives but any information anyone has will be gratefully received.

 $thanx$
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on August 24, 2011, 10:07:26 AM
I'm still looking for more information about the Rofft area, I've found mention of a quarry and a gravel pit:

CRAIG ROFFT GRAVEL PIT   GRAVEL   LLANDUDNO   CAERNARFONSHIRE   SH774831   [31627]
References: Ordnance Survey six-inch map of Caernarvonshire (2nd Rev.) Sheet No. I SE

CRAIG ROFFT QUARRY      LLANDUDNO   CAERNARFONSHIRE   SH775832   [31628]
References: Ordnance Survey six-inch map of Caernarvonshire (2nd Rev.) Sheet No. I SE

Disused sandstone quarry on Craig Rofft, 180 m east  of  tram shed, on the Great Orme [SH 7755 8315]
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: emma p on August 24, 2011, 10:20:26 AM
Hi dave,
Its a puzzler aint it !
Just rang the archives but no answer. Going out now so will try again later.
 ???
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Bri Roberts on August 24, 2011, 10:52:28 AM
emma p, after first obtaining permission for you, did you get round to telephoning the lady who used to own the Four Oaks Hotel for the further information you were recently seeking?
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Trojan on August 24, 2011, 01:07:10 PM
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Here's a pic of Gwynedd Road from the 1970s, showing that the answer to our question about what was next to the Arcadia is...a piece of wasteland with a stone wall around it!

It wasn't waste ground, that's where Kiddies Funland was originally.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on August 24, 2011, 01:40:29 PM
Trojan! You've risen from the dead.....  :laugh:
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Trojan on August 24, 2011, 02:33:18 PM
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Trojan! You've risen from the dead.....  :laugh:

Yes, but I took longer than three days.  :votive: :votive: :votive:
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: emma p on August 24, 2011, 03:42:20 PM
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emma p, after first obtaining permission for you, did you get round to telephoning the lady who used to own the Four Oaks Hotel for the further information you were recently seeking?

Hiya Bri.....I havent as yet but i was going to try tonight. Wednesday is my quiet night. Let you know. :)
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: emma p on August 24, 2011, 08:04:15 PM
Bri,
I spoke to Mrs.Jones earlier. She was very helpful and gave me some useful info and leads. Could you pass on my thanks please.
The Four Oaks was built in the late 1800's and whilst Annie was living and working there in 1906 it would have been a private residence used by superior families during the summer season.
I can only guess that Annie was some kind off housemaid.
Mrs.Jones family bought the hotel in 1952. Previous to that it was used by the inland revenue during WW2 and previous to that it was owned by The Methodist Association.
On a photograph i have found on here dated 1934 (i think) the word 'temperance' features so this would explain the Methodist connection.
Spookily again i come from an extremely Methodist family !
I will try to give them a ring.
Mrs.Jones also said it would be worth giving Mostyn Estates a ring.......i didnt think of that.
So some useful leads there.....thankyou for the number. :)
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: emma p on August 24, 2011, 08:06:13 PM
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This advert is  the Four Oaks in 1934, note the comment "Back  entirely Open to Mountains"!
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Nemesis on August 25, 2011, 08:33:49 AM
Mrs.Jones also said it would be worth giving Mostyn Estates a ring.......

Quite a few years ago, when I first started researching the history of our house (it being one of the oldest in the town) I found Mostyn's helpful. A lady called Sue ( if she is still there) furnished me with copies of old letters and alot of other info. I actually wrote to them rather than ringing up.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Yorkie on August 25, 2011, 08:49:48 AM
Sue is still there and is most helpful.   ;)
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: emma p on August 25, 2011, 06:41:44 PM
I rang Mostyn Estates today.......waiting for someone to ring back.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Hugo on October 30, 2011, 04:32:34 PM
Are you still waiting Emma?   
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: emma p on October 30, 2011, 05:09:32 PM
Yes Hugo, as predicted ! I rang on the 25th August !!!! &shake&
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Hugo on October 30, 2011, 05:15:02 PM
It doesn't surprise me Emma, I'm still waiting after a year!      >?>?? 
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: SCMP on January 07, 2012, 08:42:22 PM
>It was Cae Mor, then Kiddies Funland, then Gwynedd Road, then the Arcadia...I think!

The older GPS you have in cars points the car park as Abergeveny road? A very busy history!! ~ Just looked back at the messages and that was already pointed out. When cas the Cae Mor built as it was 2 different hotels at one point?

Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Yorkie on January 08, 2012, 10:10:28 AM
Abergavenny Road ran alonside the Cae Mor and what is now the Theatre.   
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Cambrian on January 08, 2012, 02:25:13 PM
For SCMP

There were originally 6 separate properties in what is Penrhyn Crescent.  The Cae Mor comprises numbers 5 and 6.  Number 5 has been known by a number of names over the years, such as "East Lynne" and "Blackfriars".  Number 6 was known as "Sefton Gate" - its main entrance was off Abergavenny Road rather than the Parade. When they were merged they presumably became "Cae Mor".  The name "Sefton Gate" persisted as the name for a cottage (once two) off the side road (Abergavenny Road).  I think the cottage was demolished as part of the development of the new swimming pool.

The trend since the second World War of merging boarding houses and hotels has led to the loss of many of the old names but these can be researched in the Llandudno Directories held in the reference section at Llandudno Library.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Bri Roberts on January 08, 2012, 03:01:10 PM
Cambrian, are you sure East Lynne was number 5 and not number 4 (the end of the Four Oaks Hotel) ?
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: SCMP on January 08, 2012, 06:03:27 PM
To Cambrian:

Many thanks for the history of those two buildings, a lot of the information on the internet is about the fouroaks 'side' of the terraces.
I am sure that your right that number 6 was Sefton Gate as there is a pillar in the corner which has the word sefton engraved in it and there is another (which may have been moved when it was redeveloped) that has the word east engraved into it.

Thanks again
SCMP
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: dwsi on January 08, 2012, 07:31:16 PM
According to Slater's Directory of North & Mid Wales, 1895

Penrhyn Crescent was occupied by :-
1 - Tudor-Owen Rev. Edward M.A.
2 - Chorlton George
3 - Williams Richard, apartments, Claremont
4 - Dickinson L. & E. apartments, St. Bernards
5 - Penny Wm, aparts. East Lynne
     Parker George, Sefton Gate
     Riviere's Victoria Palace
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Bri Roberts on January 08, 2012, 09:36:28 PM
 $thanx$
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Cambrian on January 09, 2012, 07:15:07 PM
Brian - No 4 was St Bernards, (see dwsi's post) then it was called Plas Pabo and eventually ended up as Penrhyn before being absorbed into the extended Four Oaks.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Bri Roberts on January 09, 2012, 09:02:11 PM
Thanks, Cambrian.

I have obviously had it wrong for many years.

My interest was the fact that one of my grandmothers lived in East Lynne when she got married just before the outbreak of the First World War.

Ironically, our family stayed in the Number 4 Block of the Four Oaks Hotel throughout the summer following the 1993 Flood Disaster.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: emma p on January 10, 2012, 09:39:57 PM
Interestingly, i recently spoke to a former owner of 'the four oaks' who told me that it was owned by the methodist association at the turn of the century and i noticed in the previous list at number 1 is a 'Rev'.
My great grandmother was living at 1, Penrhyn cres when she married in 1906 (presumably working there).
There is also a picture of the hotel somewhere in the gallery....ill have a hunt. Im sure it states on the advertisement that it is a 'temperent' hotel.......is that the right word ?????
 ???
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on January 10, 2012, 09:56:58 PM
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Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Cambrian on January 10, 2012, 10:40:42 PM
Just a thought prompted by the photos.  It looks as if the original main entrance to the Four Oaks (no1) was actually off Tudor Road, this might explain some of the puzzlement over the number of doorways off the Parade into the terrace.  Simlarly, the entrance for Sefton Gate at the other end of the block was off Abergavenny Road, when it became the Cae Mor, the entrance of the adjacent property off the Parade was used instead.  I think the owners have now reverted to using the original one -now off the car park - as well.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on January 21, 2012, 03:45:18 PM
Some photos of the Gogarth Abbey/Penmorfa Hotel in its final days before closure:

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Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: plas penmon on January 23, 2012, 06:20:19 PM
Thank you, yes I am new on here! Llandudno has certainly changed quite a bit. We lived there until 1976.  Family still there although most of them in the ground.  We owned the Wavecrest Hotel, which has now 'lost' it's name, very sad when I drove past a couple of years ago.  The name which was near the top of the hotel has been removed :( My grandfather owned quite a few properties around the town, his name was John Henry Oliver.  There was also a paddle streamer which was way before my time, my father told me it had been broken up many years ago.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Fester on January 23, 2012, 07:17:44 PM
Welcome to the Forum Plas Penmon.
Tell us more about the Wavecrest.  Is that the hotel now known as The Somerset on the promenade?
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: plas penmon on January 23, 2012, 10:17:58 PM
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Welcome to the Forum Plas Penmon.
Tell us more about the Wavecrest.  Is that the hotel now known as The Somerset on the promenade?
Yes!  It was the Wavecrest, can't believe they had the name which was made of stone removed! Would love to know any staff who worked there in the late 60's early 70's. Happy days!
The hotel was taken over during the 2nd.WW for the Ministry of Food, apparently they left it in a very sad state at the end of the war. Hard to imagine being hoofed out of your home/business for nothing. I remember guests arriving by the coach load, it was always busy. There was a chef called Tony, lovely man but he came to a sad end during the 70's.  The last time I visited, I had a look in and couldn't believe my eyes, the carpet in the bar is the same.  Dad bought the carpet in the 60's and said it was a good one. A time warp, only difference, everything seemed so much smaller! We moved in 1970.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Blodyn on January 23, 2012, 11:14:07 PM
Welcome to the Forum, Plas Penmon.  Very interesting memories, hope you'll have some more to share with us. 
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: wavecrest on January 27, 2012, 06:21:17 PM
I am sister of Plas Penmon, also very sad to see it is no longer Wavecrest, (hence my name).  Lots of memories of the Wavecrest, the staff, Tony the chef always used to let me make cakes in the kitchen when he was busy.  Sing songs with the coach loads of people in the evenings.  Playing in the back yard which is now a big parking lot.  I learned to ride my bike there.  Lots of fun playing hide and seek in all the corridors of the four different levels. Never forget it!
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Cambrian on January 27, 2012, 06:38:15 PM
Plas Penmon/Wavecrest - good to hear your memories.  I think Gerald and Mary Macara would have taken over from your people. I can recall  Dorothy and Peter Oliver - they went to Torquay possibly ? Gerald was was a technician at the Pier looking after all sorts.  He and Mary went to the Wavecrest from a guest house elsewhere in town. They retired to Deganwy and the hotel passed to their neice and her husband.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Blodyn on January 27, 2012, 11:48:21 PM
Nice to hear from you, Wavecrest.  As Cambrian says, it's great to hear these memories. 
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on January 28, 2012, 08:48:30 AM
Advert for the Wavecrest Hotel in 1972:

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...and in 1954:

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Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: plas penmon on January 28, 2012, 01:33:49 PM
Ooo, thank you for the info Cambrian, are they still around? The advert from the hotel in '72, Dad's car the E-Type outside :) Yes, we did all move to Torquay and I missed Llandudno terribly. We all live across the water now in IOM.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Sara on January 28, 2012, 04:27:19 PM
Mary & Gerald Macara did take over the Wavecrest. Gerald was my Dad's best man and also worked with my Dad in the Pier Pavilion in the 1960's.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: plas penmon on January 28, 2012, 09:33:00 PM
I remember them, Dad said he remembered Gerald when he worked in the Pier Pavillion.  Are they still around?
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Sara on January 28, 2012, 10:25:03 PM
Maybe your Dad knew my father, Bob (Bobby) Moubert, as I said he worked in the Pier Pavilion, electrician, with Gerald Macara. He also worked in the Savoy Cinema before we moved to London.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: kgem on April 23, 2012, 10:37:59 PM
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Welcome to the Forum Plas Penmon.
Tell us more about the Wavecrest.  Is that the hotel now known as The Somerset on the promenade?
Yes!  It was the Wavecrest, can't believe they had the name which was made of stone removed! Would love to know any staff who worked there in the late 60's early 70's. Happy days!
The hotel was taken over during the 2nd.WW for the Ministry of Food, apparently they left it in a very sad state at the end of the war. Hard to imagine being hoofed out of your home/business for nothing. I remember guests arriving by the coach load, it was always busy. There was a chef called Tony, lovely man but he came to a sad end during the 70's.  The last time I visited, I had a look in and couldn't believe my eyes, the carpet in the bar is the same.  Dad bought the carpet in the 60's and said it was a good one. A time warp, only difference, everything seemed so much smaller! We moved in 1970.
The wavecrest and the somerset are one hotel but are only connected by one doorway on the ground floor. The bar in the wavecrest was last used in about 2000 and ended up as a storeroom. In January 2010 it was taken out and along with the small ballroom converted into a dining room. I remember the carpet in the bar it was dark blue and yellow with a nautical theme to it and was still in very good condition. unfortunately it ended up in a skip with everything else.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: plas penmon on May 08, 2012, 03:26:03 PM
How sad to hear :( lost for words, but great memories :)
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: D00die on October 02, 2012, 06:47:37 AM
The East Lynne which was owned by Jack and Blodwen (my Dad's great aunts) Gammon is now the Cae Mor. I discovered this on a recent visit to Llandudno to follow up on family history. If you look at the one remaining pillar outside Cae Mor the inscription says 'East', the other pillar that has been removed said 'Lynne'

One of Blodwen's other sisters Margaret Williams ran boarding houses by the name of Cottesmore and Bod Ma apparently but I do not know more than that. Another sister Catherine ran Glascoed Guest House and brother Richard ran Roselea

The eldest sister and her husband Edith and John Roberts (my great grandparents) were proprietors of Mill House in Gloddeath St. When Edith died apparently the hotel became 2 establishments, Mill House (operated by her daughter) and the Dunoon (operated by her son). If anyone has any further information or photos about these establishments it would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on October 02, 2012, 09:22:35 AM
It would be interesting to know if the 'East Lynne' is still visible in the stonework behind the modern sign above the door.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Nemesis on October 02, 2012, 09:53:14 AM
Would Mill House have been joined to the Dunoon as the Grand Ash is now or the property now known as Dunoon Lodge in Clement Ave?
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: suepp on October 02, 2012, 08:46:13 PM
Cottesmore  Boarding establishment was at 19 Gloddaeth Avenue and there was a "Bod Mai" at 8 Morley Road.

In the 1929 directory both establishments are listed with the name Mrs M.E. Williams. The Cottesmore seems to be in between Chapel Street and Deganwy Ave. I'm pretty sure this has been discussed before on the forum and was discovered to be the building now housing Llandudno Museum ?
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: suepp on October 02, 2012, 08:58:41 PM
(http://)
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: suepp on October 02, 2012, 09:07:04 PM
Both this and the above images are from a 1930's Brochure. Mill House was at  24 & 22 Gloddaeth St, adjoining the One Ash

(http://)
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Yorkie on October 03, 2012, 08:32:40 AM
I just love these ads and especially the reference to ELECTRIC LIGHT!   Wow!!   _))*
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: suepp on October 03, 2012, 04:49:24 PM
One of the best phrases I have seen is "No Vexatious Restrictions"  :o
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Nemesis on October 03, 2012, 06:02:41 PM
The mind boggles !! :o
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on October 31, 2012, 01:04:18 PM
Ian is presently adding a large number of Hotel adverts from 1964 into the Photo Gallery:
http://threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=media (http://threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=media)

Here are a couple:

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Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on October 31, 2012, 04:03:49 PM
I've managed to get hold of brochures for 1955, 1961 and 1964/6 and I'll be uploading these in the coming weeks. Some fascinating memories among them including hotels that no longer exist.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on October 31, 2012, 07:15:12 PM
Looking at some of the hotel ads from the 1960s certain phrases catch the eye.

 "All china, cutlery and glassware washed and sterilised after use by modern methods"

"Old age pensioners welcome early or late season"

"The luxury of unrestricted hot water in your bedroom sinks"

One thing that did surprise me was the Grand was advertising parking in its own garage for 150 cars. Is that a basement car park or spaces at the side?
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Yorkie on October 31, 2012, 08:17:34 PM
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One thing that did surprise me was the Grand was advertising parking in its own garage for 150 cars. Is that a basement car park or spaces at the side?

As late as 1992 The Grand had an arrangement with (the then) Aberconwy Borough Council to use the Maelgwyn Road car park off Gloddaeth Avenue.  If I remember correctly they made an annual payment to the Council.

I do not know when it started and whether this information would match the brochures you have.
 ZXZ
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Nemesis on November 01, 2012, 08:48:48 AM
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Looking at some of the hotel ads from the 1960s certain phrases catch the eye.

 "All china, cutlery and glassware washed and sterilised after use by modern methods"

"Old age pensioners welcome early or late season"

"The luxury of unrestricted hot water in your bedroom sinks"

One thing that did surprise me was the Grand was advertising parking in its own garage for 150 cars. Is that a basement car park or spaces at the side?

According to something I read the Grand had a garage and parking where Garth Court flats are now. Does this ring a bell with anyone else?
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Llechwedd on November 01, 2012, 12:28:00 PM
No I don't think so that was ground belonging to the Royal.  What they did have was a building in Church Walks think it was called Ormeside which housed all their staff.  It's opposite the hotel next to the tram station on the other side ol Old Road.  I think it's a block of flats now.  Don't think there was any building on the Garth Court site prior to it being built but I may be wrong.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Cambrian on November 01, 2012, 07:04:03 PM
The Grand Garage was at the end of Water Street so I expect some of Garth Court - if not all - would have been built on the site.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Nemesis on November 02, 2012, 08:36:20 AM
 $good$ $good$
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on November 02, 2012, 09:59:29 AM
I've just started uploading the 1955 / 56 visitor guide, and I'm struck by how informal the written style is, compared with the 1966 version.  There are also some nice non-PC ads in this one:
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on November 02, 2012, 10:00:23 AM
And more...
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on November 02, 2012, 10:04:04 AM
The first batch of colour pages is now uploaded (Photo gallery / holiday brochures) or follow this link (http://threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=media;sa=album;in=16;nw;start=180) and scroll down to "1955" images.  I'll continue uploading the hotel ads, now, then move onto the 1961 brochure. I'm also wondering if it might be a good idea to have separate folders for the different brochures.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on November 03, 2012, 11:00:16 AM
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I'm also wondering if it might be a good idea to have separate folders for the different brochures.
Probably, yes. Excellent work, Ian.  $good$
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on November 03, 2012, 11:01:16 AM
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I've just started uploading the 1955 / 56 visitor guide, and I'm struck by how informal the written style is, compared with the 1966 version.  There are also some nice non-PC ads in this one:
I believe Fester decided to move to Llandudno after seeing these brochures...  :laugh:  :laugh:
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on November 03, 2012, 12:55:21 PM
One thing that's amusing is how many hotels claimed to be 'at the centre' of Llandudno. Both the Clarence and the Imperial did so.  Another thing is the number that claimed to have garages for their clients' cars.  The Grand is the most obvious, claiming 50, but others also claim 50 and 60 car garages.  Where were these?  And until I started on the 1955 de I didn't know we had a Dorchester.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on November 03, 2012, 01:14:08 PM
The Craigside claimed a garage for 60 cars, a claim which mysteriously disappeared by the 1965 edition. The Gege had a garage for 40, and several hotels had a 'tv theatre with projection television', albeit only one channel.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Michael on November 03, 2012, 01:35:43 PM
Re hotels claiming they had garages for visitors cars. In the late 40s early fiftys virtually everyone kept their car in a garage at night. Indeed it was'ent until around 1970 that the law was altered to allow parking at night without lights.
  Around 1950 I worked in Berrys Garage which still operates in the same place. Up an entry behind Mount Stewart hotel in Rhos. They used to be able to park, u der cover, around 35 cars a night. As the cars became larger, so the problems get them in the space grew. One reason I got the job there. The Berry brothers were both of ample proportions physically and I was always a lightweight, so much so that I had a lot of jokes made about me in school. But I could get out of a narrow slit when the time came to get out of the drivers seats after parking.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Nemesis on November 04, 2012, 08:52:39 AM
Mike--re Berry's garage in Rhos. My OH bought a Green Daimler V8 reg. ULD 199F during 1998 from a dealer in Yorkshire complete with all it's papers. Amazingly it had had it's early MOTs at Berrys !!
We often wondered how anything large managed that narrow entrance.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on November 04, 2012, 09:21:53 AM
I'm about half way through the 1955 upload, but the good news is that I've managed to get hold of the 1951 guide. Reading the hotel descriptions is truly fascinating - like a journey through time which, of curse, to some extent it is.  One thing that I noticed is that reading the first few pages of each guide (1951 - 1984) the command of English is far superior in the early guides to the 1984 guide. In the '84 guide the copy writer struggled to form a coherent sentence, and their punctuation was abysmal. Wonder what happened?

I'm scanning and uploading today, so more will appear on a regular basis. They're well worth browsing, as they reveal so much about Llandudno and how it's changed in sixty years. Sounded rather fun in '51 :-)))  I'd also add that together with Dave's theatre programmes, poster and contracts they form an invaluable resource for anyone interested the social history of the area.  I was surprised to see that performers doing no more than a single 20 minute appearance at the pavilion in 1947 were paid 70 guineas and provided with free transport between London and here. en what they were charging for theatre tickets, I wonder how they could afford acts like that?
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: hollins on November 04, 2012, 10:09:47 AM
What an interesting find you have there Ian. Is it your own collection?
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on November 04, 2012, 11:43:40 AM
The guides are, yes. I started trying to find them, as my father had left me a 1966 edition and I was interested in how the place had changed. Last week, we both trawled the second hand book shops in Colwyn Bay and Llandudno yet - surprisingly - ended up finding what we were looking for on Amazon :-))  I think one reason for the guides' value is that they stand as independent testaments to how Llandudno wanted to be seen. The hotel ads, in particular, also mark the incredible changes taking place in society following the second world war. 

For instance, in 1955, when the rest of the UK was only just starting to acquire TV sets, the Imperial, among others. boasted 'large screen televisual theatre using projection television'.  I can only imagine the cost involved. And taken with the contracts which Dave has managed to acquire, we start to see an image of a sharply divided society, in which some people had  made a lot of money during the war, while others were probably little removed from the breadline.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on November 04, 2012, 12:43:47 PM
1961 guide now partially uploaded. 

Must have been a lot of ex-merseysiders starting hotels in the '50s;  Liverpool names like Granby hotel and Wirral names like the Ellesmere abound.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: hollins on November 04, 2012, 01:22:39 PM
It's amazing what you can find on Amazon.
Well done and thanks for sharing them with us.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on November 05, 2012, 10:27:22 AM
The 1961 guide is going to take a little more time, as I'm comparing every 1961 guide page with the same page in t955 guide,.  There's clearly no point in re-scanning them, if everything's the same. Some of the changes are intriguing.

For instance, Between 1955 and 1961, the Craigside had an indoor swimming pool constructed.  No idea if they still have it now, however. 

M<ore interestingly, the 1955 page for the Empire hotel had this snippet:

Quote
"Incidentally, bars throughout Wales are closed to the public on Sundays but as a resident of the Empire Hotel you will be assured of the same facilities  hotels in England."
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on November 05, 2012, 10:47:03 AM
The North Western hotel ("Standing on its own island site") had 52 bedrooms in 1955, but only 50 by 1961. The Garage it offered had similarly decxreased from 20 cars in 1955 to 16 cars 61.

The County Hotel  boasted "Snooker World Champion Fred Davies" as the hotel director in 1955, who had left by 1961.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on November 05, 2012, 03:39:34 PM
In 1961 there were 145 hotels operating in Llandudno.  That figure excludes flatlets. In 1955, however, there were 147 hotels. The full liust of 1961 hotels is as follws:

Alexandra
Almora
Annan
Ascot
Augusta
Balmoral
Bay Court
Beaver Lodge
Bedford
Bella Vista
Belle Vue
Belmont
Belverdere
Birklands
Blackfriar’;s
Bodlondeb
Braeside
Branksome
Brannock
Brig-y-don
Brinkburn
Broadway
Bron Orme
Bry Derwen
Bryn y Mor
Cae More
Chatsworth
Cl;ifton
Clarence
Clonmenl
Concord
County
Covelley
Craigside
Cranleigh
Crescent
Cumberland
Derwenog
Dolphin
Dorchester
Drummond
Dunoon
Eagle Crest
Edclyffe
Eden Court
Ellesmere
Elsinore
Empire
Esplanade
Evans
Flockton
Gogarth
Grafton
Grafton
Grand
Grange
Grangemore
Gresham
Hafod Y Mor
Headlands
Heath House
Homestead
Hydro
Imperial
Jenivore
Kennilworth
Knowsley
Landsdowne
Lindens
Lockeyer’s
London
Malborough
Mary Dale
Merrion
Metrople
Metrople
Milverton
Morningside
Mountain View
North Western
Norville
Nuneham
Oak Alyn
one Ash
Ormescliffe
Osborne
Otterburn
Penlope
Penrhyn
Plas Fron Deg
Plas Madoc
Plas Marina
Plas Tirion
Puffin
Queen’s
Queensway
Quintoh House
Ravenhurst
Regent
Rhoslan
Riocksley
Risboro
Rochdale
Rothesay
Royal
Russel
Sandringham
Senarth
Shelbourne
Shropshire
Somerset
Southcliffe
St George’s
St Hilary
St Kilda
St Moritz
Sunneymede
Sunneyside
SWan Remo
Swn y Mor
Tan y Marion
Tan y Ralt
Thirlmere
Toronto
Treeway
Trevone
Tyndale
Uxbridge
Warwick
Wavecrest
Waverley
Wavertree
Wellington
West Bourne
West SHore
White Heather
White House
White Vourt
Whitefriar’s
Wilton
Woodland
Woodlee
Wyecliffe
Wyngarth
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on November 06, 2012, 08:23:36 PM
The latest Guide book is in fact the 1950 version, which I'm just starting to scan. In terms of quality, this guide is made of cheaper paper, uses less colour and is stapled together with two massive and rusty staples.  The paper is also yellower than all the others, and every photo is in sepia. Because the pages are so poorly stapled this is going to be harder to scan straight than the other guides, so some images might be a little tilted :-))
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on November 06, 2012, 08:26:00 PM
...
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on November 09, 2012, 03:48:25 PM
I've confirmed that the Grand's 'garage for 150 cars' was in Water street.  The hotel also offered a valet service, whereby you gave the doorman the keys and he parked your car for you.  Whenever you needed it, you simply told the doorman and it was brought round to the hotel. That was quite something, given the period in which it was operating.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Fester on November 09, 2012, 06:58:18 PM
That was a time when The Grand, unlike now, was justifiably named.  &shake&
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Nemesis on November 10, 2012, 08:21:56 AM
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I've confirmed that the Grand's 'garage for 150 cars' was in Water street.  The hotel also offered a valet service, whereby you gave the doorman the keys and he parked your car for you.  Whenever you needed it, you simply told the doorman and it was brought round to the hotel. That was quite something, given the period in which it was operating.

Glad my memory isn't as vague as it can be at times ! $good$
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on November 10, 2012, 09:15:52 AM
 $bounce$
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Nemesis on November 10, 2012, 11:16:05 AM
 ;D

Has anyone been in Water Street recently? I always feel so sad that such a quaint little street should be overshadowed like it is by the modern monstrosity of the block of flats.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Michael on November 10, 2012, 04:26:29 PM
  A few posts back Ian comments on one hotel which had "lost" half a dozen or so bedrooms and a similar number of car spaces between 1955 and 1961. Well, the cars.My post a few days ago on this subject. Cars got considerably wider and had much larger doors in this period. Dont know about the guests, whether they had also grown in size
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Cambrian on November 10, 2012, 04:39:13 PM
The provision of ensuite bathrooms in the 1960s and 70s meant that most hotels "lost" rooms - mainly singles.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on November 16, 2012, 09:01:36 AM
Just when I thought I'd cracked the problem of the Grand hotel and its garage, I've run into issues attempting to confirm what I've been told. A local historian told me that the garage for the Grand was in Water street, but it had been built on the remains of the 'bath house reading room' which later became the Baths hotel. But from history.org, comes this:

Quote
The 168-room Grand Hotel is the largest in North Wales, and is a prominent feature of the view across Llandudno bay from the east. It was built in 1901 for Frances Doyle on the site of the old baths, reading room and billiard hall which had opened there in 1855. This was before the first pier had been built. The baths were later extended and became the Baths Hotel in 1879.

and most seem to agree that the Grand had been the Baths hotel. So that now prompts the question of whether the 'baths house reading room' was something else entirely, or merely a coincidental naming.  Anyone got any ideas?
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on November 16, 2012, 09:20:03 AM
Highly unlikely that there would have been two 'Baths House Reading Rooms', I'd say? Someone's getting confused, I think.

This is the original Baths & Reading Room:

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It seems to have been extended once:

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..and then again (from Landward side) to form the Baths Hotel:

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Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on November 16, 2012, 09:25:25 AM
Thanks, Dave.  Will continue my investigations into where the Grand garage was, then. Water street still seems to the most likely location, anyway.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on November 21, 2012, 09:07:04 PM
Interesting early photo of the Alexandra Hotel, showing it how it looked before the ground floor was converted into shops:

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Title: llandudno lifeboat
Post by: romanjohn on November 24, 2012, 11:38:34 PM
when we were running the  washington hotel in the sixties i saw my first set of maroons go up.it was nasty day tide was in big waves hitting the beach so i ran upstairs across the ballroom floor opened the balcony doors onto the balcony just in time to see the lifeboat being pulled down the rampand into the water she was called the  Anni Ronald   and  Isabella  forest at the              time i thought nothing of it.we came down on holiday in the eighties walking along the prom we ended up watching with others seeing the lifeboat coming down the road my daughter who was nine at the time said daddy.were is the house for the boat on the beach some visitors said oh this happens all the time it  is still happening in 2012, looking in the paper some some hotel owners  said they don,t want there view obstructed by  a building. what a selfish out look .in my youth my crew and myself needed the rnli twice.you have the sailing club just across the road.  think  about it  good night   romanjohn.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Llechwedd on November 28, 2012, 12:17:21 PM
Anyone got a Craigside Hydro broxchure from about 50's?  Apparently my photo. is in it!
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on December 05, 2012, 11:20:42 AM
This tariff from the Craigside Hydro has recently surfaced on Facebook, courtesy of Edward Duller. Click image to view full size.

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Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on December 05, 2012, 11:54:41 AM
What year, d'you think? Early '50s?
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on December 05, 2012, 07:56:38 PM
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What year, d'you think? Early '50s?
Certainly 1950s, I'd have said.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Michael on December 05, 2012, 09:21:49 PM
   Craigside Hydro, any mention of it brings a bit of a dark shadow to my face.  It reminds me of the day I came face to face with sudden death, not me but one of my schoolmates

   On the other side of the main road there was a large building connected businesswise with the Hydro, used for indoor sports at one time and, I think, there were outside tennis courts.  At the back of these buildings i.e. just above the cliff face going down to the beach, there was another small broken down, I think brick and/or stone, building.

   I don't know much about the details, only what I heard in school. This lad, I've tried to remember his name but it wont come although I can picture him in my mind.  He was messing around in this building and it collapsed down on top of him, killing him.

   Again from school memories from around 1945, and not forgetting that he was not one of my friends, just another pupil I knew by sight, I was told he was buried in Llangwysterin churchyard   Mike
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: jacko on December 05, 2012, 09:30:56 PM
on a site called WHAT DAY OF THE WEEK has april 18 Thursday years 1946, 57,63,68,april 23 Thursday,1946,57,63,68,so it looks like 1957,phew 1956 was a leap year hope this helps.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on December 06, 2012, 07:31:13 AM
Yes - the mention of the Television theatre would suggest '57.  Later than I suspected but I admit I haven't checked with the tourist brochure ad.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Cambrian on December 06, 2012, 11:41:40 AM
Ormegolf's recollection is right.  The small building was a pumping station used to pump sea water up to the hotel.  There were three lads involved.  They were juniors at the Inland Revenue which was in occupation at the Hydro.  One lunchtime they went down there although there were warning signs and seemed to have moved some brickwork.  The result was that most of the building collapsed on them  Two were killed and the third was trapped.  A supervisor from the Revenue went looking for them when they failed to return from lunch and came upon the tragic scene.  The injured lad - from Llandudno - survived and gave evidence from a stretcher at the inquest a couple of weeks later.
The two lads who were killed were from Old Colwyn and Rhos on Sea; both were 17.

Recording a verdict of misadventure, the Coroner said "They must have known they were playing with fire; boys will be boys, that is the spirit which won the last war".


Before anyone asks, I happened to have seen the press reports in the Weekly News for 4th and 26th March, 1946; the incident itself happened on 1st March. Full details are in the report on 26th March.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Michael on December 06, 2012, 10:42:41 PM
   I never for one moment thought that anyone would remember this incedent. Indeed my memory of it is very sketchy. Cambrian obviously knows much more, or, Cambrian, is it just that you have read it up in the old papers? If so, do you have a particular interest?    Since I read your post I have tried hard to remember the boys name.  The surname Reader or Rhyder or something like that comes to mind, but I may be completely off track. Mike
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Cambrian on December 08, 2012, 09:42:38 AM
No great mystery.  I was researching something entirely different a few years ago and came across the story in the paper I was looking at - it was covered in some detail.  It seemed such an unusual tale I made a brief note at the time - which jogged my memory when you raised it Mike. I think you can access the newspaper on roll at either Llandudno Library or the Archives - full details of all involved and the events were given.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Blongb on December 08, 2012, 01:36:49 PM
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Another thing is the number that claimed to have garages for their clients' cars.  The Grand is the most obvious, claiming 50, but others also claim 50 and 60 car garages.  Where were these?  And until I started on the 1955 de I didn't know we had a Dorchester.

The Grand's Garage which used to take up to 60 Cars was sold off for redevelopment and is now Garth Court on Abbey Road. The St. George's Garage was pulled down in favour of an open car park as was the Merrion's on Ty Isa Road and I think the only 2 remaining Garages are behind the Elsinore in Somerset Street and the St. Kilda's on Bodafon Street.
Title: Re: llandudno lifeboat
Post by: Blongb on December 08, 2012, 01:59:16 PM
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this happens all the time it  is still happening in 2012, looking in the paper some some hotel owners  said they don,t want there view obstructed by  a building. what a selfish out look .

The Paper as usual got it WRONG. It was never about the loss of a view, that story came from the supporters of the RNLI. We as Hotelier’s objected to the sighting of an Emergency Service by RNLI Trading Company Ltd., at the centre of the Pedestrian Focal Point on the Promenade. To suggest anything else is nothing short of Scurrilous  $angry$
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: romanjohn on December 08, 2012, 10:26:40 PM
my father said many years ago never belive the papers  all the time. iam very sorry for qouting the local paper i thought it was true .are their any developments on resiting the  new station.in future i shall ask on here many thanks. romanjohn.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Blongb on December 09, 2012, 04:09:38 PM
Hi Romanjohn, the latest proposal I've heard about is to site a new station between the paddling pool and the Little Orme
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Yorkie on December 09, 2012, 04:24:34 PM
I heard that the station was to be reduced in size and trains between the Junction and Llandudno replaced by trams running along the old train route.  With tram stops at regular intervals.    WWW
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on December 16, 2012, 08:31:18 AM
Some more hotel adverts from 1955:

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Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on December 16, 2012, 09:02:50 AM
The last is a superb example of the Art Deco movement, too; that's one that should be preserved. The old cinema in Llanrwst was of a similar style.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Michael on December 16, 2012, 10:40:32 AM
     Correct. But it didnt stop the Council from knocking it down  Mike
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on December 16, 2012, 11:13:13 AM
Sadly, no.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Cambrian on December 16, 2012, 11:42:30 AM
Villa Marina is listed by Cadw.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Nemesis on December 16, 2012, 12:25:36 PM
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The last is a superb example of the Art Deco movement, too; that's one that should be preserved. The old cinema in Llanrwst was of a similar style.

Went past the other day and was surprised that it was beginning to show signs of wear from the last restoration.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Fester on December 16, 2012, 11:41:28 PM
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The last is a superb example of the Art Deco movement, too; that's one that should be preserved. The old cinema in Llanrwst was of a similar style.

There is a similar, but smaller, private house in the same Art Deco style near the roundabout in Penryhn Bay, (close to the post office, en route to the rear of Rhos Golf Club)

The Villa Marina though is currently sporting the most beautiful and massive Xmas tree in its lower lounge, which extends about 16ft maybe, surpassing the mezzanine floor above.  VV
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on December 17, 2012, 07:09:47 AM
Quote
Villa Marina is listed by Cadw.

But only Grade II...
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on January 05, 2013, 10:41:36 PM
Whilst looking for something else, I found this superb aerial shot of the Craigside Hydro Hotel - click on it to view full size:

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Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: RichieC on January 06, 2013, 06:20:27 PM
Greetings for the new 2013 everyone.

Regarding the Villa Marina post #156 the property does have an architectural pedigree, having been designed by Harry Weedon in 1936.

Weedon was the partner in the design practice of Clavering and Weedon, which during the 1930's designed almost all the 1930's Odeons nationally in the famous cinema circuit.

Whether Llanwrst fitted into the partnership series is unclear, but the Odeon, Colwyn Bay in the same year as Villa Marina certainly did.

Some more pictures and details here:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Weedon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Weedon)
http://www.ribapix.com/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo2OiJDb2x3eW4iOw==&pg=23 (http://www.ribapix.com/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo2OiJDb2x3eW4iOw==&pg=23)
http://www.ribapix.com/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo5OiJMbGFuZHVkbm8iOw==&pg=5 (http://www.ribapix.com/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo5OiJMbGFuZHVkbm8iOw==&pg=5)
http://www.ribapix.com/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo5OiJMbGFuZHVkbm8iOw==&pg=6 (http://www.ribapix.com/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo5OiJMbGFuZHVkbm8iOw==&pg=6)

http://www.ribapix.com/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo5OiJMbGFuZHVkbm8iOw==&pg=8 (http://www.ribapix.com/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo5OiJMbGFuZHVkbm8iOw==&pg=8)
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Blodwen on January 26, 2013, 05:41:27 PM
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Im now looking into the history of The Four Oaks Hotel, 1-4 Penryhn Crescent. Does anyone know when these building were turned into a hotel ? I have found 1-4 Penryhn Crescent on a listed buildings site which says Quote- ' A terrace of 6 houses built in the mid to late 19th century as properties for long seasonal letting to superior families. Numbers 1-4 now combined as The Four Oaks.'
My great grandmother is listed as living here at number 1 in 1906(aged 22)......i would presume as a servant of some kind. At the age of 17 on the 1901 census she was still living in Wednesbury so maybe answered an advertisement for a position in the house.
Would be grateful of any early photographs too ?
thanks , em.  ;)

My great grandmother Elizabeth Williams (Lizzie) was the cook in 4 Penrhyn Crescent in the 1911 census. It would be so great if anyone has a photo of the building at that time. This was before it was the 4 Oaks Hotel I suppose. Any info gratefully received.
Shirley (aka Blodwen Chardon - Llandudno Museum)
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Blodwen on January 26, 2013, 05:54:32 PM
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Brian - No 4 was St Bernards, (see dwsi's post) then it was called Plas Pabo and eventually ended up as Penrhyn before being absorbed into the extended Four Oaks.


Do you know when the name changes took place? I am particularly interested in c1911 as my great grandmother worked there as the cook.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Trojan on June 10, 2013, 04:34:31 PM
The Parade Hotel (date unkown)

Note the Vadre Lane arch which no longer exists.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on June 10, 2014, 09:56:59 AM
Just found this interesting view of the old Bath House at the Craigside Hydro Hotel, dating from 1920. First time I've ever seen it.

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Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Bedelia on June 13, 2014, 03:48:26 PM
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It was Cae Mor, then Kiddies Funland, then Gwynedd Road, then the Arcadia...I think!

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That circular ride in the foreground is where Catlins cafe in the Theatre is now.

more info on 'Kiddie's Funland' http://bit.ly/qt0Is8 (http://bit.ly/qt0Is8)

I remember Kiddies' Funland well, from when I stayed with my grandparents in the 70s.  The mini ferris wheel made a "shoom-shoom" noise (like giant maracas!) as it went round.  The trampolines were built into the ground and probably quite dangerous by today's standards!  Loved to go here though.

We also went to the summer shows and panto at the Arcadia next door.  (I've posted some photos of a Showtime programme from 1973 in the Photo Gallery, Theatre Programmes.)
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: born2run on June 13, 2014, 04:22:17 PM
They should knock down that waste of space arena and build it back again. We need something for families in the town. I loved that place as a child and I know my own children would.
The extravaganza once a year is not often enough!

Do they still have Proffesor Peabodys on the pier these days? I've not been in a long time
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Yorkie on June 13, 2014, 04:31:21 PM
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Do they still have Proffesor Peabodys on the pier these days? I've not been in a long time

They have a Clairvoyant, but last time I went by she was "Closed due to unforeseen circumstances!"  :D
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Bedelia on June 13, 2014, 06:14:19 PM
My mum's family was from Llandudno; I used to stay with my grandparents in Deganwy as a child and was last back up there in 2006. 

I've been reading the earlier posts in this thread with great interest, as I am a screenwriter and investigating the possibility of developing a TV drama set in wartime Llandudno.  I was always intrigued by family stories of the wartime influx of the Inland Revenue taking over the seafront hotels and have been trying to find out more about this.  I'm surprised it's not been much written about.

I'm ideally looking for personal stories from families who owned or worked in the hotels before the war: what happened when the hotels were requisitioned?  Where did the hotel owners and their staff go for the duration, and how were they recompensed for loss of their businesses?  If anyone has any records or recollections of how this all worked, I'd be very interested.

I'd also like to hear from anyone who worked for the Revenue in the town. 

And also anyone with links to the POW camp at Pabo Hall.  I have seen online the postcard written by a German POW to his family back home, but I know there were those who stayed on in the area after the war (e.g. a TV repairman my grandparents knew in Deganwy); there must be some stories from their families? 

Please get in touch if you have any info.  I'm based in London and am trying to research online at the moment, prior to a research trip to Llandudno further down the line, if I get some development funding. 

Would love to hear from anyone in the meantime.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Bri Roberts on June 13, 2014, 06:20:04 PM
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I'd also like to hear from anyone who worked for the Revenue in the town. 

There is a lady in her late nineties living in Craig-y-Don who was the secretary for the boss of the Inland Revenue in Llandudno during WW2.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Bedelia on June 13, 2014, 06:27:52 PM
Yes, I had seen a reference to her on here.  I have been in touch with John and Barbara Lawson-Reay though, and I think they may have spoken to her and found that she could not remember much about it. 

I know it's rather late now for first hand accounts, but hope to find some second or third generation family members who have been told about it or have photos and documents tucked away somewhere!  I was going to ask you, Bri, if you have any contacts, as I noticed you mentioned various people you knew who had been connected with the hotels?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Cambrian on June 14, 2014, 03:27:12 PM
DaveR

Very interesting photo of the bath house/pump house at the Craigside Hydro.  The pump was used to convey sea water up to the hotel for use in the pool there.  There was at one time a tank or reservoir at the rear of the hotel which stored the sea water.

A while ago I posted an brief account of a sad incident at the pump house.  I will recap here so folk can relate to the photo.

On 1st March 1946, three 17 year old lads  (from Rhos, Old Colwyn and Llandudno) were employed at the Hydro by the Inland Revenue.  During their lunch break they had taken to  visiting the old pump house and, given its derelict state, were given to knocking bricks out of walls.  On that fateful day, their activities caused the upper floor of the two story building to collapse.
Their absence was noticed and staff went looking for them.  A supervisor found the building in a state of collapse and investigated.
Two had died at the scene and the Llandudno lad was taken to hospital in shock and with leg injuries.

At the subsequent inquest on 26th March, at which the Llandudno lad gave evidence from a stretcher, the Coroner, noting the existence of warning signs, said "They must have known they were playing with fire.  Boys will be boys - that is the spirit which won the last war".

Given this tragedy, it must be assumed the remains of the building were quickly removed afterwards.

Compared with today, it is noteworthy that a full inquest was conducted within the month.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Cambrian on June 14, 2014, 03:33:54 PM
Bedelia

In addition to the IR (James Callaghan was here for a period and one of his daughters born in the local hospital) there were also the Coast Artillery School and Practice Camp; Companies House; and something called the Anglo-Spanish Clearing Office (which has a vauge whiff of MI6 or MI9 about it); the RAF radar station and a mysterious experimental radar station eventually demolished in 1956.  The CAS is well covered elsewhere on this site and a leaflet is widely available locally. Plenty to be going on with!
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Jack on June 14, 2014, 07:54:50 PM
Hi Cambrian

In one of David Atkinson's papers that are lodged at the archives he mentions that one of the three bombs that landed on Llandudno during WW2 landed close to the Craigside Hydro pumping house.  Is that the reason the pumping house building was in a semi derelict state?
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Michael on June 14, 2014, 10:50:39 PM
Hello Cambrian, history repeats itself. This incidence at the pumping house, you will remember that I raised this first on the forum, because I was in school with the lad from Rhos. I never, ever expected anyone to have any memory of this, but to my upper surprise you filed in with the details.
 This was my very first experience of death, either sudden or otherwise. I can still, whilst in type this post, visualise this lad. I recall his hair style, his build, everything. He was buried in Llangwystenin church yard. Many from Colwyn Bay County school attended but I was not one of them, I didn't know him that well and he was not in my class and possibly not even in my year.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on June 15, 2014, 08:21:20 AM
Quote
and something called the Anglo-Spanish Clearing Office (which has a vague whiff of MI6 or MI9 about it)

Probably MI9, as it seems to have been set up in the mid-'30s, shortly before MI9 was established, although with the SIS, who knows? In 1937 there was a flurry of parliamentary questions relating to unpaid creditors as a consequence of the Spanish Civil war, so it appears to have been a conduit of funds for some reason.

I'd heard about the experimental radar station from someone stationed here during the war.  He only knew it existed, not what it did, but I've long been curious as to what it might have been.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on June 15, 2014, 08:49:23 AM
MI9's emphasis was on evasion and avoidance in enemy territory. This is a 'Bloodchit' provided by them to servicemen which identified them if brought down in Soviet-held areas.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Ian on June 15, 2014, 08:54:06 AM
This is an account of Airey Neave's escapes whilst held prisoner in WWII Germany and Poland. It makes for fascinating reading.

http://www.arcre.com/archive/mi9/neave (http://www.arcre.com/archive/mi9/neave)
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Bedelia on June 15, 2014, 03:25:58 PM
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Bedelia

In addition to the IR (James Callaghan was here for a period and one of his daughters born in the local hospital) there were also the Coast Artillery School and Practice Camp; Companies House; and something called the Anglo-Spanish Clearing Office (which has a vauge whiff of MI6 or MI9 about it); the RAF radar station and a mysterious experimental radar station eventually demolished in 1956.  The CAS is well covered elsewhere on this site and a leaflet is widely available locally. Plenty to be going on with!

Hi, Cambrian.  Thanks for the reply.  Yes, I'd read about Callaghan, Companies House at the Grand Hotel, the RAF radar station in the Orme complex, and the CAS - that leaflet was available on Amazon, but is currently out of stock; I'll try local outlets.  The Anglo-Spanish Clearing Office sounds interesting; will bear that in mind.

However, what is still elusive so far is the experience of the hotel owners who were turfed out to make way for the civil service offices and personal accounts from those who worked for the Revenue (either locals or evacuees from London).  If you hear of anyone, do please ask them to drop me a line here!  Thanks again.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Bedelia on June 15, 2014, 03:35:22 PM
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Some photos of the Gogarth Abbey/Penmorfa Hotel in its final days before closure:


Stayed here with my mum in 1999 on our first visit back to Llandudno after a 20 year absence.  She remembered it as an exclusive upmarket hotel in the 50s, where locals would go for functions, dinner and cocktails, and we thought it would be nice to stay on the quieter West Shore to walk our dog on the beach.  (My grandparents used to drive to West Shore in the evenings to watch the sunset with a flask of tea; & when I was a child in the 70s, we'd go to feed the donkeys windfall apples in their field by Maesdu.) 

So it was a huge disappointment to find it so run down, prior to redevelopment: sleazy fixtures and fittings and appallingly poor quality food - bread so cheap and thin at breakfast that toast stuck to the plate with moisture…!  If we hadn't booked for week in advance and come such a long way, we would have walked straight out. 

No surprise then to find that it had been sold for flats a couple of years later.  They had no business to be trading like that.  Such a shame.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Cambrian on June 15, 2014, 05:10:03 PM
Bedelia - the leaflet is available free of charge from the Town Council or the Tourist Information Office at the Library.

The experimental radar station was built in 1942 and thought to be a radar training college.  It went under the initials ADRDE - Aerial Defence Research and Development Establishment.  A large concrete and brick with around 50 rooms the building was three storeys high, with a revolving dish on the roof and was nicknamed "Hatter's Castle" by locals. It was also known by the authorities as "X3".  Always closely guarded, its true role still seems shrouded in mystery.

Many readers will have known or heard of the late Dafydd Hughes, the Madoc Street bookseller.  He started his working life as a teenager with the Inland Revenue and moved with them for a period to the south of England when the department left Llandudno.

The Crescent Hotel acted as a cafeteria for civil servants.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Bedelia on June 17, 2014, 08:27:49 AM
Thanks again, Cambrian.  The experimental radar station was different than the actual RAF radar station in the Summit complex? 

They have archive copies of the Llandudno Advertiser and the Ormescliffe Gazette (Inland Rev journal) at the British Library; I'm going to see them this week.  Will see what these turn up.

Off thread, but also found this curiosity:

http://babylonwales.blogspot.co.uk/2006/06/pulp-fiction-in-llandudno.html (http://babylonwales.blogspot.co.uk/2006/06/pulp-fiction-in-llandudno.html)

Anyone know anything about this intriguing gentleman…?
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: rhuddlan on March 19, 2016, 07:46:01 PM
Hi,
Does anyone know the whereabouts of a hotel called  (in1896) The Manchester Parade Hotel?
I have found that my g. grandparents stayed there in August of that year.
I found there names on a list of visitors to Llandudno that is online at the newspaper archives.
I suspect the Hotel's name has changed subsequently.
A photo would be a bonus if anyone has one.
Many Thanks
Rhuddlan.
Ps  the paper was called   The Llandudno Advertiser and list of Visitors
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on March 19, 2016, 09:51:26 PM
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Hi,
Does anyone know the whereabouts of a hotel called  (in1896) The Manchester Parade Hotel?
I have found that my g. grandparents stayed there in August of that year.
I found there names on a list of visitors to Llandudno that is online at the newspaper archives.
I suspect the Hotel's name has changed subsequently.
A photo would be a bonus if anyone has one.
Many Thanks
Rhuddlan.
Ps  the paper was called   The Llandudno Advertiser and list of Visitors
I suppose the first place that springs to mind would be the Parade Hotel in Church Walks?
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Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Hugo on March 19, 2016, 11:18:32 PM
If you look on Google  street view for Church Walks you'll see the building.  It's not far from the Pier and next to it but across Vadre Lane is the Queen Victoria.
I've got a photo of the Hotel in 1933 when there was an archway between the Parade and the Queen Victoria.  I'll send the photo direct to you by e-mail asap
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Midmarion on March 20, 2016, 12:56:00 AM
Does anyone know why the impressive archway leading into Vardre Lane was built.   I grew up in a house opposite the Parade Hotel between 1940 and 1951.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Fester on March 20, 2016, 01:18:16 AM
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Does anyone know why the impressive archway leading into Vardre Lane was built.   I grew up in a house opposite the Parade Hotel between 1940 and 1951.
I always imagined it would be a mews, leading to stabling for horses at the rear of the North Parade hotels.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: rhuddlan on March 20, 2016, 10:49:35 AM



Thanks for your responses. they are much appreciated.
Rhuddlan
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Hugo on March 20, 2016, 11:28:30 AM
The arch was erected around 1855 by Thomas Owen who also built the St Georges Hotel and was the Back North Parade until 1910.  Stabling predominated and this marvellous architectural flourish was intended to evoke the classical grandeur of gentry coach houses.
I believe that a lorry or something hit the arch and it then had to be demolished.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: DaveR on March 21, 2016, 09:28:48 AM
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I believe that a lorry or something hit the arch and it then had to be demolished.
Would be nice if the Arch could be rebuilt.
Title: Re: Early Hotels - Questions & Memories
Post by: Bedelia on September 02, 2019, 09:43:24 AM
Further to my posts from 2014, I'm still looking for personal accounts from families who ran hotels before/during WW2 and whose properties were requisitioned by the Department of Works for the Inland Revenue.  I've trawled the newspapers of the time (Llandudno Advertiser, North Wales Weekly News, and the Inland Revenue magazine, Ormescliffe Gazette) in the British Library, but most elusive is practical detail on what happened to hoteliers who were turfed out of their businesses for the duration - where did they go when given often only hours' notice to quit the premises?  How did they make a living in the meantime?  I have found reference in the Flintshire Archives to a hotelier "Mrs Lazar", who had expressed concerns to landlords Mostyn Estates re payment of insurance premiums on requisitioned properties and imagine this might be the mother or other relative of Vicki Lazar, who later became a town councillor?  Any direct local or family info on this subject would be most welcome.  Thank you.