Three Towns Forum - Talk about Llandudno, Colwyn Bay & Conwy

The Local => Local News & Discussion => Topic started by: Ian on August 31, 2010, 02:53:23 PM

Title: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on August 31, 2010, 02:53:23 PM
Everything about West Shore
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on September 05, 2010, 08:48:05 PM
Hugo's favourite picture!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on September 05, 2010, 10:34:49 PM
That's good... )*)&
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on September 06, 2010, 01:15:30 PM
Thanks for posting that photo Dave, I never get tired of seeing it.
 My Taid and Nain who lived in the nearby Penmorfa Cottages would have seen the house in its heyday.    :)  but the next generation will not be so lucky as all they will see are the flats that will be built on the site.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on September 06, 2010, 01:33:07 PM
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...the next generation will not be so lucky as all they will see are the flats that will be built on the site.
If anything ever gets built there!  :-[
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: JasonW on September 06, 2010, 09:15:01 PM
I've heard on the grapevine of a Local Train Enthusiast interested in setting up a model (sit on) railway track and attraction on land near the cafe on West Shore. I will keep an eye on planning applications and let you know if anything comes of it.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on September 06, 2010, 09:20:14 PM
Rex will be thrilled to hear that!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on September 07, 2010, 08:06:04 AM
He won't be the only one :-)) :Sisyphus:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on September 07, 2010, 08:07:57 AM
Any news on the Tram Shelter Cafe, Ian?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on September 07, 2010, 09:02:26 AM
Finding the mains services is now what's preoccupying them.  However, things are at last starting to move.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on September 07, 2010, 10:35:05 PM
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Thanks for posting that photo Dave, I never get tired of seeing it.
 My Taid and Nain who lived in the nearby Penmorfa Cottages would have seen the house in its heyday.    :)  but the next generation will not be so lucky as all they will see are the flats that will be built on the site.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bellringer on September 07, 2010, 10:46:42 PM
Re: the new toilets

I was on the West Shore this afternoon and thought I would make use of this facility. I was intrigued by the notice beside the doors saying that the "minimum charge" is 20p. I can't imagine that anyone would really want to put in more than the "minimum charge". Does the CCBC think that we would put in more for a No 2 than a No 1 for instance!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: JasonW on September 07, 2010, 11:21:33 PM
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Re: the new toilets

I was on the West Shore this afternoon and thought I would make use of this facility. I was intrigued by the notice beside the doors saying that the "minimum charge" is 20p. I can't imagine that anyone would really want to put in more than the "minimum charge". Does the CCBC think that we would put in more for a No 2 than a No 1 for instance!

Its a new Council Strategy to raise more revenue, Your Council Tax Bill will be the same in April next year when it will state the "minimum" amount.  :laugh:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on September 08, 2010, 08:00:08 AM
 _))* _))* _))*
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on September 08, 2010, 08:38:13 AM
What it actually means is that the mechanism accepts all coins but doesn't give change. So you could put a 50p or £1 in and that would be the charge.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on September 08, 2010, 09:06:20 AM
Must be desperation to put in 50p or £1 :o
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on September 21, 2010, 07:37:08 AM
 :) Do we know what the Friends of the West Shore have achieved or has planned,The play area is very looks empty and needs a lot of new play items,unfortunatlry if you copy Craig y Don you have too deliver and i hope they can but im not sure were they are up too.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on September 21, 2010, 08:16:06 AM
It took the Friends of Craig Y Don Park a few years just to get the funding in place for the childrens play area.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Michael on September 21, 2010, 09:05:28 PM
Over the years I have often wondered what happens to this surprise surplus?  Does the machine total up the number of users and the cash must equal 20p per user.  If so---please put my name down to be the cash handler ;D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: margo on September 29, 2010, 09:04:21 PM
I went for a walk on the west shore on sunday morning only to see a few men with wheelbarrows and shovels working on clearing up some of the weeds and rubbish on the beach side of the wall, there were two vans there and at first glance i thought it must be locals fed up with waiting for the council to do something but as i got closer it had a sign saying "community payback"! It was the first time i have actually seen this, we hear of offenders getting community service but never seem to see any evidence of it. Well done to whoever thought of putting them on our beach, it really does need some TLC !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on September 29, 2010, 09:19:04 PM
Welcome to the forum, Margo.  :)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on September 29, 2010, 10:57:33 PM
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Re: the new toilets

I was on the West Shore this afternoon and thought I would make use of this facility. I was intrigued by the notice beside the doors saying that the "minimum charge" is 20p. I can't imagine that anyone would really want to put in more than the "minimum charge". Does the CCBC think that we would put in more for a No 2 than a No 1 for instance!

I can't believe how much itcosts to spend a penny L0L
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on September 29, 2010, 11:01:13 PM
I went to the West shore yesterday and took a few pics of just how bad its got there :(
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f295/AustinRover/Little%20Orme/DSCF0328.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f295/AustinRover/Little%20Orme/DSCF0330.jpg)
this new clock tower impressed me L0L
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f295/AustinRover/Little%20Orme/DSCF0331.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f295/AustinRover/Little%20Orme/DSCF0334.jpg)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Quiggs on September 30, 2010, 12:03:34 AM
At least CCBC are trying to do something.  ???
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on October 02, 2010, 03:21:14 PM
 :o Walking past the gorgian house [in above picture] last night i realised that their view over towards Angelsey has dissapeared due too the build up of sand behind the Alice statue,i hope the owners have been in touch with Boyle andLyons. _))*
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on October 02, 2010, 04:23:25 PM
Rex:  just a small point, but when you place a smiley at the start of your posting you need to leave a space immediately after it, otherwise it won't display properly.  I've just edited two of your posts to make that happen, so you can see what I mean. 
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on October 02, 2010, 04:32:51 PM
 :-*  Cheers.   _))*
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on October 03, 2010, 10:21:03 PM
Place still looks a mess.
When the consultants proposed that 2 Breakwaters be built at each end of the boating lake was it their intention to create sandhills to eventually block everyones view over the sea. If so they kept it from members of the public.
The problem is caused by the Breakwaters extending out from the sea well.
Prior to these being built the there was no problem.All the way along there was 8/10steps down on to the beach.
I keep coming back to this, but which consultants sold the council the idea and who on the council were persuded the breakwaters were a good idea ?
They have a lot to answer for !
 :'( :'( :'( :'(

Somwhere I have loved all my life has been wrecked.
Take it there is no chance of it being put right in the current financial climate.
 :'( :'( :'( :'(

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on October 06, 2010, 08:24:26 PM
We went to sail our boat today and a little work has been done since last week to the paving and some sand removed :)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f295/AustinRover/October%202010/DSCF0513.jpg)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on October 06, 2010, 08:29:26 PM
Looks a lot better.  &well&
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on October 06, 2010, 08:34:47 PM
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Looks a lot better.  &well&

It does but the sand was blowing in as we were stood there! ::)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 07, 2010, 04:21:22 PM
I was on the West Shore today and Mull's point about the steps is very valid.  I took this photo earlier today and although the area looks nice in the Sun, the sand was nearly a foot deep on the TOP step!   :o
I also took another one from Invalids Walk overlooking the building site at Penmorfa and it is not a nice picture for the town. It's time that Anwyl was put in its place after all the underhand business that has already taken place.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 20, 2010, 05:51:33 PM
I was walking along the West Shore this afternoon and as I was passing the boating lake a photographer was just leaving,  carrying his camera and tripod. He was about 50 yards from the end of the pond when two Swans flew from one end of the lake to the other, and appeared to be running on water as they flew.
It was a fantastic sight to see and I bet the photographer was cursing his luck.  Unfortunately I wasn't carrying my camera either!
I walked back to my car and saw a large sign at the Sunnymede Hotel.   It was Charter Homes advertising one and two bedroomed contemporary apartments for sale.  I haven't seen any planning notices in the past relating to the hotel so I don't know if this is the case of another hotel being demolished and apartments being built on the site.    ???
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on October 20, 2010, 06:17:12 PM
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I was walking along the West Shore this afternoon and as I was passing the boating lake a photographer was just leaving,  carrying his camera and tripod. He was about 50 yards from the end of the pond when two Swans flew from one end of the lake to the other, and appeared to be running on water as they flew.
It was a fantastic sight to see and I bet the photographer was cursing his luck.  Unfortunately I wasn't carrying my camera either!
You need to be quick on the ball, Hugo! With this photo, I was walking along the lake when I heard the beating of the wings as they took off just behind me and just swung around and held the shutter down to let the camera take photos continuously:

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2681/4413433907_0c15bf86a5.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/4413433907/)
Swans (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/4413433907/#) by SnakeCorp (http://www.flickr.com/people/davellandudno/), on Flickr

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I walked back to my car and saw a large sign at the Sunnymede Hotel.   It was Charter Homes advertising one and two bedroomed contemporary apartments for sale.  I haven't seen any planning notices in the past relating to the hotel so I don't know if this is the case of another hotel being demolished and apartments being built on the site.    ???
Fraid so. A 3-storey development comprising 3 x one bedroom, 6 x two bedrooms and 2 x three bedrooms, self contained apartments.

http://www.conwy.gov.uk/E_MINUTES/e_post2002/e_regulatory/e_planning/e_reports/07-34032.pdf (http://www.conwy.gov.uk/E_MINUTES/e_post2002/e_regulatory/e_planning/e_reports/07-34032.pdf)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on October 20, 2010, 06:37:49 PM
Sunnymede Hotel in its final days before demolition:

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Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 21, 2010, 11:28:04 AM
Great photo of the Swans Dave and the sky looks an incredible colour too.    I take it that the snapper yesterday wasn't you, he had his hood up (West Shore winds) so I only saw his face briefly when he turned around when he heard the Swans taking off.

I can understand the owners selling to the developers as it must be hard to run a business in these times but that's the 4th one on the West Parade that has done that. I just hope that the others don't all do it too as otherwise it'll be all apartments and town houses  along the front.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on October 21, 2010, 01:13:43 PM
I think it will continue like this until the town can offer something more than just being a stepping stone to Snowdonia.     $wales
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on October 21, 2010, 08:32:09 PM
 8)  How is the friends of the West Shore coming along,Craig y Don park looks great so when is the park on West Parade getting new equipment   Z**.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on October 21, 2010, 08:35:41 PM
Have the people running the miniature golf at West Shore given up? I haven't seen them open for ages at the weekend, even on sunny days. Of course, people can always visit the Great Orme Family Golf which is open for a few more weeks.  D)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on October 21, 2010, 08:36:46 PM
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Great photo of the Swans Dave and the sky looks an incredible colour too.    I take it that the snapper yesterday wasn't you, he had his hood up (West Shore winds) so I only saw his face briefly when he turned around when he heard the Swans taking off.
Wasn't me, Hugo!  $bounce$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Trojan on October 22, 2010, 04:21:14 AM
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8)  How is the friends of the West Shore coming along,Craig y Don park looks great so when is the park on West Parade getting new equipment   Z**.

Friends of West Shore have been coming along nicely.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on October 22, 2010, 08:43:40 AM
OMG-- Nearly lost my breakfast--- that's gross ! :puke2:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Trojan on October 23, 2010, 04:01:31 AM
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OMG-- Nearly lost my breakfast--- that's gross ! :puke2:

 $dins$

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on October 24, 2010, 06:47:51 PM
The Tollhouse at West Shore is up for sale - £450,000:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-28281085.html (http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-28281085.html)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: TheMedz on October 24, 2010, 07:15:37 PM
Strange how the spec doesn't show any pictures of inside the house, only the outside! No garden to speak of but I wouldn't be surprised if someone bought it with a view to it being turned into a holiday cottage. Can the new buyers start charging tolls  :)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on October 24, 2010, 07:21:26 PM
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Strange how the spec doesn't show any pictures of inside the house, only the outside! No garden to speak of but I wouldn't be surprised if someone bought it with a view to it being turned into a holiday cottage. Can the new buyers start charging tolls  :)
When I went past a week or two back, there was some sort of work going on inside. It's been left in a half converted state for quite a while. Way overpriced, in my opinion.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: TheMedz on October 24, 2010, 07:32:59 PM
I noticed on Thursday that Anwyl were also carrying out some sort of tidying up work on PenMorfa
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on October 25, 2010, 08:12:37 AM
Quote
Way overpriced, in my opinion.

That one has the advantage of mains water, which the lighthouse and R & BT don't. But I doubt they'll get what they're asking,  The lighthouse was originally priced at almost £1m, but went eventually for substantially less.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on October 25, 2010, 08:30:16 AM
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I noticed on Thursday that Anwyl were also carrying out some sort of tidying up work on PenMorfa

I have a feeling that they have been using it as a dumping ground for the rubble from behind the Empire. A dumper truck has been going between the two ,full to the west and empty the other way!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on October 25, 2010, 10:13:02 PM
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Quote
Way overpriced, in my opinion.

That one has the advantage of mains water, which the lighthouse and R & BT don't. But I doubt they'll get what they're asking,  The lighthouse was originally priced at almost £1m, but went eventually for substantially less.

Lousy place for a holiday let,  too much traffic and people going by.... staring in at you.
Outrageously overpriced too,   as if it WERE to be a holiday let, they would have to charge over £2000 per week to cover mortgage and costs... and make any kind of profit ... assuming it was let 75% of the time.

Nah, they are having a laugh...
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on November 27, 2010, 05:04:16 PM
I've been walking my dog on the West Shore a few times this week and have just come back from there today.   The sand problem is as bad as ever with the sandbanks building up in the boating lake and in the White Rabbit pond the sand is now above the water level and is as high as the sides of the pond.
On the shore side of the pond, the cycle track the sand is building up fast and even if the cyclists used the path they would have a problem cycling over it.     In fact there was only one cycle track on the sand itself!
I walked past the cafe for the first time for years and saw the metal thing like a question mark in the sand. I've read about it before but this was the first time that I had seen it and I wasn't impressed by it at all unlike the one on Conwy Quay which I do like and think it is appropriate for that area,
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on November 28, 2010, 10:54:21 AM
I was walking along the cycle track in West Shore with my Old English Sheepdog earlier this week and as I walkied a lady was walking also with her two dogs.    It was high tide but  the dogs enjoyed running after each other.   Charlie the Bichon Frise ran straight to the waters edge but had the sense to stop whereas my hairy hound didn't and went straight on into the deep water. It was his first time ever in the sea.  So when he came out of the water we quickly  moved away before getting soaked as he shook his coat!  Still at least he enjoyed it.
I had spoken to the lady as we were walking and we discussed the problems with the sand. Apparently she lived near the Oval and she has sand blowing into her attic!    It's just not on with this sand problem. The Council created the problem and they should hold their hands up and admit it.
It's affecting people's lives and finances and it is not acceptable just to have a cosmetic exercise by removing sand from the Promenade and putting it back on the beach just for it to happen again.  They should take the drastic measures required to prevent this happening.   
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on November 28, 2010, 11:42:03 AM
Get Bertola on the job - he'll concrete it over!              _))*
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Micox on November 29, 2010, 05:28:10 PM
I wish I had the problem - you don't know when you're well off. aaa.gif
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Trojan on November 29, 2010, 10:22:40 PM
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Get Bertola on the job - he'll concrete it over!              _))*

At least Wetherspoons isn't getting sand-blasted.  8)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on December 02, 2010, 04:03:07 PM
I think we do Mike, it's still a beautiful place to be despite the fact that it doesn't look like it did in our day.  The Councillors have really made a botch up of the last sea defence, but I was walking again today on the West Shore promenade and I really appreciated the beauty of the place.  You could see the snow on the mountains nearby and the coast of Anglesey and the Great Orme.  I'll be walking up the Orme soon and I bet you'd like to be able to do it too,   
The Boating Lake was partly frozen over and one of the Swans tried to walk on it because it thought that I was going to feed it, but the ice was too thin and broke under it's weight.
At the other end of the promenade by the car park I took a photo of the creation that they made a fuss of.   In my opinion this "thing" is a complete waste of time and money.  It just looks awful and look at the surroundings, a sewage buiding which is also starting to look a bit neglected.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on December 02, 2010, 04:23:09 PM
When this was first built after much speculation among the locals we contacted the council and asked what it was.
Their answer?
A shelter from the wind for cyclists!
I leave you to comment !
Mine were unprintable.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on December 02, 2010, 04:45:41 PM
 :laugh: :o When the plans where put in front of the council they where told it was the height of a bungelow. :weeping:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on December 03, 2010, 03:19:38 PM
Some bungalow Wrex, a bit drafty and a little bit niffy I should imagine but the views are great.   
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on December 03, 2010, 03:28:23 PM
I had another walk on the West Shore this afternoon and it seemed a bit warmer than yesterday although the pond was more frozen today.
That's probably because there was a westerly wind and it was also possible to see the snow on Anglesey which apparently hah had a heavy snowfall earlier in the day.
I stopped at the White Rabbit pond and it is in a mess but worse still, I noticed that someone had broken an ear off the statue.        :rage:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on December 03, 2010, 03:43:20 PM
Possibly it is about time the statue and its abominable cage were consigned to the scrap heap and the town forgett its rather tenuous connections with Alice Through the Looking Glass et al.  

A read of Dogson's Biography makes suggestions of paedophilia and some of his photographs could easily convey that message.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Micox on December 03, 2010, 04:29:22 PM
 ¢¢## Hello  Hugo.

Yes I'd love to be able to walk on the orme - or anywhere else I'm afraid. I'm now so decrepit (belly wrinkles hanging down below my knees!) I rely on a wheelchair or a mobility scooter so the next time I visit Llandudno I'll be somewhat restricted. Thank god for the prom.

Heddwch.

Mike.  (*) 
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on December 03, 2010, 04:51:37 PM
 :o :o :o  OMG Yorkie... I never realised that, and its almost heresy to raise the point.... but you are right!

It makes me sick that someone would vandalise the statue,  :puke2:   .. but if the modern society of today can't resist this mindless damage, and CCBC didn't see fit to protect Pen Morfa,it may well be time to move on and forget it.

 :'( :weeping: :weeping:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on December 03, 2010, 05:30:18 PM
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I had another walk on the West Shore this afternoon and it seemed a bit warmer than yesterday although the pond was more frozen today.
That's probably because there was a westerly wind and it was also possible to see the snow on Anglesey which apparently hah had a heavy snowfall earlier in the day.
I stopped at the White Rabbit pond and it is in a mess but worse still, I noticed that someone had broken an ear off the statue.        :rage:
It definitely felt a touch warmer today, probably as you say because the wind had dropped somewhat and also changed direction. Disappointing to see that some moron has damaged the statue again - that cage is less than useless.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on December 03, 2010, 05:35:52 PM
The cage is as much use as an inflatable dartboard.

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on December 10, 2010, 01:53:17 PM
Fester made the suggestion last night of moving the White Rabbit statue from West Shore to the middle of the small roundabout at the junction of North Parade/Church Walks. There, it would be overlooked by properties and could, therefore, be removed from its cage. I suggested some small spotlights could be placed to illuminate it at night and it would be a nice feature for that corner of the town.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3372/3624772763_379ba94fb6.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/3624772763/)
I'm Late! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/3624772763/#) by SnakeCorp (http://www.flickr.com/people/davellandudno/), on Flickr
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on December 10, 2010, 03:11:36 PM
It's a good idea and the statue would be a lot safer but the wording is not appropriate to the North Shore.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: MrFalafel on December 10, 2010, 03:15:21 PM
I would suggest that the statue be replaced with a solid metal version but that would probably be knicked by metal theives.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on December 10, 2010, 06:37:30 PM
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It's a good idea and the statue would be a lot safer but the wording is not appropriate to the North Shore.
The wording's not really appropriate to any shore since it never happened!  ;D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on December 10, 2010, 11:54:18 PM
Yes, my suggestion to move the statue was based on my dismay about two things.

1, For years, the controlling councils have allowed most, if not all, Alice themed attractions to disappear, or even be complicit in their demolition.
2, It seems that West Shore itself is getting moread more starved of resource and investment. 

So, its a suggestion based on consolidation and expediency.
It would cost a few hundred quid in terms of labour to get it done, and it would save an eternity of trying to protect and repair it at West Shore.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blongb on December 12, 2010, 09:11:53 PM
If you think moving it to this side of town would make it any safer forget it. Have any of you taken a close look at Queen Victoria's bust (no pun intended) at the bottom of Happy Valley lately? I know the Student rioters who cornered Charles and Camilla in Regents Street the other day were shouting "Off with their heads", but some thieving sod has actually had a go at cutting the old girl from her plinth.  $uk
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on December 12, 2010, 09:26:26 PM
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If you think moving it to this side of town would make it any safer forget it. Have any of you taken a close look at Queen Victoria's bust (no pun intended) at the bottom of Happy Valley lately? I know the Student rioters who cornered Charles and Camilla in Regents Street the other day were shouting "Off with their heads", but some thieving sod has actually had a go at cutting the old girl from her plinth.  $uk
I think that was done many years ago, if its the same saw mark on the base not far from the sculptor's signature?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on December 13, 2010, 08:20:00 AM
That wouldn't be in the East End of the Town, around Albert Square, would it??      :laugh:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on December 15, 2010, 11:48:04 AM
I had a nice pleasant walk along the West Shore promenade yesterday with my dog and at the White Rabbit statue we made the return walk along the cycle track back to the car.  As I was walking I thought to myself that the sand problem there now is as bad as ever. The small White Rabbit pool has nearly filled up and the cycle track is a mess.
I wonder what the annual cost is for clearing this stretch!
I bet the visitors may say that "what do you expect, it's by the sea and you can't beat nature"  but they would be wrong as man or rather the Council created the problem as it wasn't a problem before.
Just when will CCBC admit that they got it wrong,     :rage:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on December 15, 2010, 11:59:21 AM
Unfortunately the prevailing wind is South West blowing straight onto West Shore and the problem will never be cured even if you constructed a 20 foot high wall.    When we lived on Gloddaeth Avenue 200 yards or more from West Shore we always had sand in the front garden and even on the window sills - it's amazing how far it will travel on the wind.

Regular cleaning is the only answer.
 
And as far as the White Rabbit is concerned, it can be sent off to Daresbury where Alice IS a part of history and save us all the maintenance costs.      ZXZ
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on December 15, 2010, 04:56:57 PM
Yorkie, did you live in Gloddaeth Avenue before or after they did the new sea defence?        As for regular sand clearance, ok I take your point but where would you put the sand once you have collected it?
Please don't say back on the West Shore because it would be just like peeing into the wind and you wouldn't do that, would you?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on December 15, 2010, 05:07:50 PM
Hugo, I don't think it makes any great difference when I lived there, sand is sand, and was prevalent in our property since we moved there.  I well remember the big lorries carrying the rocks to West Shore and the furory of the locals about the amount of heavy traffic.  In fact did one rock not fall off a lorry and kill someone?   My memory is not as sharp as it once was.    )*)&
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on December 15, 2010, 06:31:51 PM
Yorkie, the only reason I asked about when you lived there was because I was born in Llandudno and can remember back to the mid 50's when there wasn't a problem there.
The real problems started when they acted on the Consultants recommendation and they artificially increased the height of the sand on the beach.
I can't remember by exactly how much they increased the height, I think about 11 feet but can't be certain.
This created a problem immediately because the Westerly wind would blow the natural sand along the shore and it would then take off on this artifial ramp that had been created.
I do remember in the 1970's a problem with the sand. but this was in the Trinity Avenue area and this again was man made as work of some type had been done on the North Wales Golf Club when they dug up a large stretch of grass and exposed the sand below it.
With regard to the large rocks you are quite correct as one did fall off a lorry and tragically killed someone.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bellringer on December 15, 2010, 08:58:07 PM
He was a taxi driver I seem to recall but his name escapes me. Was it Tommy someone?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Paddy on December 15, 2010, 09:37:58 PM
He was called Tommy Ashe.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on December 17, 2010, 03:24:42 PM
Fester demonstrating that you can walk on water at the Alice Statue:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 11, 2011, 03:32:11 PM
Parked my car by the Sunnymede Hotel on the West Shore and saw that the demolition of the hotel was well under way.  I wonder when they are hoping to start building the  3-storey development comprising 3 x one bedroom, 6 x two bedrooms and 2 x three bedrooms, self contained apartments.
The site at the old Penmorfa doesn't look like any work will be starting there soon so I hope the Sunnymede isn't going to be the same.


Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 16, 2011, 04:51:50 PM
The Sunnymede Hotel has nearly been demolished and last nights gales have made the sand problem even worse.   The section of the road that joins with Abbey Road was covered in sand and I feel sorry for the residents living nearby,
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on January 16, 2011, 08:47:12 PM
Good work with the photos, Hugo. Let's remind ourselves how it once looked:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on January 20, 2011, 04:23:00 PM
Just happened to visit West Shore Car Park and couldn't help but notice the disgusting state of the Pay and Display Machine.    The plinth is so rusted that an electric cable supplying the works can be clearly seen through the hole on the back view.   Considering that the plinth actually holds the cash box, it would not be too difficult for someone to help themselves by merely removing some of the rusty metal.

What a contrast to the nice new bright shiny machines that have just appeared on some of the streets of the town!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on January 29, 2011, 06:02:34 PM
we had a look today, there is still sand everywhere and if you look at the back of the blue post, it's been sand blasted!
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5139/5398626120_c31398269f.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/56944437@N05/5398626120/)
DSCF1339 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/56944437@N05/5398626120/#) by AJones56 (http://www.flickr.com/people/56944437@N05/), on Flickr
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on January 29, 2011, 06:04:18 PM
The whole area is just a disaster, time to move the White Rabbit statue, I think.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on January 29, 2011, 06:17:52 PM
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The whole area is just a disaster, time to move the White Rabbit statue, I think.

And send it back down the hole it crawled out of!      Z@@
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Trojan on January 30, 2011, 12:51:45 AM
Is that sand on the roof of the Georgian House I can see?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on January 30, 2011, 10:27:38 AM
 :(Has any one from the forum been to a friends of the West Shore meeting, and if so what excactly are they proposing to do.We know that the Conservatives are behind this so you would think Janet Finch-Saunders would be pushing here two troops for results like her Craig y Don park. I walked along the West Shore end of the cycle path last weekend and could;nt find it,the whole length of it was covered and by the Black rocks there where hills of sand you had to get over,brilliant idea to build that path in such an exposed spot.Still not sure why they cannot have our delightfull residents who need to do community service clearing once a week. *&(
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 30, 2011, 11:34:56 AM
I had a walk along the West Shore yesterday and they have actually cleared the sand.  Not very well I may add but you should have seen it before.   :o
Where have the tons and tons of sand been shifted to one may ask but you only have to look on the beach to get your answer. The tyre tracks of the diggers are still there and the sand has been dumped on the beach  above the high water mark.  The sand is now on an angle like a ramp and is up to the 3rd step from the top ready to be blown over on the next gale that comes along.
 :rage:

Last week I was able to copy Fester and walked along the length of the White Rabbit pond as it was just one long sandbank!   I noticed yesterday though that the sand had all been cleared from that pond.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 31, 2011, 06:18:02 PM
Dave, you seem to have contacts in all the right places so would you know how it's possible to find out just how much it costs each year to clear away the sand from the West Shore?
I had a drive down Abbey Road today and turned left to the West Shore and the sand on the road is awful. I feel sorry for the people who live there, especially for the bungalow on the corner that is up for sale.  I don't fancy it's chances of being sold quickly.   :(
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on January 31, 2011, 07:42:19 PM
That's a bit of a tricky one, Hugo, as how much of the work is carried out under the guise of normal street cleaning? I suspect they would say that no breakdown of the work carried out is kept.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 05, 2011, 05:16:13 PM
I drove down the West Shore today (after taking my dog for a walk and getting thoroughly soaked in the process) and noticed that there is a new sandbank there.      Trouble is it's not on the beach but in the driveway of those posh flats next to the site of the Penmorfa Hotel.  ::)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on February 05, 2011, 06:02:02 PM
A friend went running on there the other night, when she took her hat off she had to shake the sand out of it--so much had blown in her direction ! ;D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 06, 2011, 11:19:20 AM
Have you taken Frizzy for a walk on the West Shore yet Nemesis?    It's really nice on a windless day but I've had to turn back some times when it has been windy and the sand has been blowing in our faces.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on February 06, 2011, 11:35:17 AM
Yes Hugo, quite a few times, also on the beach on his extending lead. He loves sand, but daren't let him loose yet or I'd never catch him. Same on the Orme, he generally then comes home and does what he has to in the yard !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on February 06, 2011, 04:13:21 PM
Could barely stand up at West Shore this morning. Bumped into Merddin Emrys and his good wife, so we had a chat and watched the high tide from the shelter of the Pumping Station Shelter.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Trojan on February 06, 2011, 04:20:43 PM
I see no one is complaining about the breakwaters now.  :D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 08, 2011, 06:46:24 PM
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I see no one is complaining about the breakwaters now.  :D

The breakwaters are not the problem, it's the artificially increased height of the sand on the beach that is causing the problems.
these photos show the sand on the pavement at the West Shore and also the sand on the pavement in Great Orme's Road by the Old Tennis court that is also starting to get sand hills.
Quite a few Swans were on the boating Lake but I didn't see anyone sitting on the benches feeding them today.    ;D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Trojan on February 09, 2011, 01:01:37 AM
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I see no one is complaining about the breakwaters now.  :D
The breakwaters are not the problem, it's the artificially increased height of the sand on the beach that is causing the problems.

The excess sand has been caused by the breakwaters. There was never that amount of sand before the breakwaters were constructed. If you look around the breakwaters you will notice that sand dunes have formed.

 >>>

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on February 09, 2011, 01:15:31 AM
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I see no one is complaining about the breakwaters now.  :D
The breakwaters are not the problem, it's the artificially increased height of the sand on the beach that is causing the problems.

The excess sand has been caused by the breakwaters. There was never that amount of sand before the breakwaters were constructed. If you look around the breakwaters you will notice that sand dunes have formed.

 >>>



STOP SHOUTING !!!!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on February 09, 2011, 08:35:09 AM
The main purpose of beach barriers and breakwaters is to raise sand levels and reverse the process of beach erosion.  Seems it's working a little too well at West Shire. It's done wonders at Rhos ,however.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 09, 2011, 11:06:21 AM
Trojan, the excess sand hasn't been created by the breakwater.  The sand levels were increased by the contractors at the time when they built the breakwaters by importing sand and artificially raising the sand level of the beach.
There were a number of complaints in the paper about the proposed sea defence predicting what would happen and that was before they started building it.
The breakwaters have caused some problems with mud etc but those problems are confined to the areas immediately around them.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Trojan on February 10, 2011, 12:55:07 AM
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Trojan, the excess sand hasn't been created by the breakwater.  The sand levels were increased by the contractors at the time when they built the breakwaters by importing sand and artificially raising the sand level of the beach.
There were a number of complaints in the paper about the proposed sea defence predicting what would happen and that was before they started building it.
The breakwaters have caused some problems with mud etc but those problems are confined to the areas immediately around them.

Don't be silly, all the imported sand that was allegedly dumped  by the contractors when the breakwaters were built would have blown away by now.  ¢¢##
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 11, 2011, 11:20:58 AM
It has probably blown away  by now and that's the problem but what do they do when it blows over the wall?   They just keep putting it back and making the problem worse.     :rage:
I'll have to have a word with your Dad and he'll put you right.   ;)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on February 11, 2011, 11:36:59 AM
Well I have now seen everything.
Passing the boating lake at West Shore there was a chap fishing in there complete with rod and line! *&(
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Trojan on February 11, 2011, 05:17:14 PM
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I'll have to have a word with your Dad and he'll put you right

 :o $smack$

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: brumbob on February 11, 2011, 05:33:30 PM
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Well I have now seen everything.
Passing the boating lake at West Shore there was a chap fishing in there complete with rod and line! *&(
_))* _))* _))*

and why don't they dump the surplus sand on the north beach?

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on February 11, 2011, 06:27:23 PM
Exactly !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on February 11, 2011, 08:24:38 PM
 walking along the west shore today what a mess , who are the councilers for this ward ,they should be ashamed , talking to a couple by the rabbit statue they were trying to find the hotel they stayed at in 1991  on the alice map ipointed at the the gap where it stood and told them what happened  not impresssed ,they could not believe what has happened to the town safe to say they wont bother comming back
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on February 11, 2011, 09:15:17 PM
Try
John Boyle and Margaret Lyons
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Trojan on February 12, 2011, 12:41:47 AM
Maybe Mike could pop down again?

http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2009/06/25/action-plan-to-clear-sand-nuisance-on-llandudno-s-west-shore-55243-23967276/ (http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2009/06/25/action-plan-to-clear-sand-nuisance-on-llandudno-s-west-shore-55243-23967276/)

Famous last words: (Jun 25 2009 by Judith Phillips, North Wales Weekly News)

Sand blighting the lives of people on Llandudno’s West Shore could soon be a thing of the past.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on February 12, 2011, 08:33:21 AM
 :laugh:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on February 16, 2011, 10:15:52 AM
Time moves on...and I found myself on West Shore on a glorious morning today...
See below, lovely weather....TONS of sand still unmoved.... and like Angie, I too bumped into OSCAR !!!

As you can see, he waved and sends his regards.

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Trojan on February 16, 2011, 03:32:21 PM
I didn't know the Circus was in town Fester.  :D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: brumbob on February 16, 2011, 05:58:00 PM
are you wearing flairs  :laugh:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Trojan on February 16, 2011, 09:16:57 PM
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are you wearing flairs  :laugh:

 L0L Look at the top right corner, looks like a dog is about to attack.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on February 16, 2011, 09:18:35 PM
 _))* _))* _))*
A new type of Gull-- a Dull? or a Gog?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Trojan on February 16, 2011, 09:23:13 PM
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_))* _))* _))*
A new type of Gull-- a Dull? or a Gog?

 L0L Thought it was a mutated rat at first.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on February 16, 2011, 09:51:17 PM
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are you wearing flairs  :laugh:
ric flairs! woooooo!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on February 16, 2011, 10:05:43 PM
see the water has gone down ,couldn,t stand there last friday,
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on February 17, 2011, 12:27:50 AM
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_))* _))* _))*
A new type of Gull-- a Dull? or a Gog?

Ask Oscar!   But no, look carefully ... its a baby seagull
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on February 17, 2011, 08:50:22 AM
Joke Fester Joke!! :rage:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on February 17, 2011, 08:52:15 AM
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see the water has gone down ,couldn,t stand there last friday,
I think the outfall pipe must be blocked.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on February 17, 2011, 08:58:34 AM
I was on there yesterday afternoon and the debris on the beach was less than pleasant.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on February 20, 2011, 07:17:39 PM
Can any one know what is happening with the friends of the West Shore,they certainly have a lot of work to do. :)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on February 20, 2011, 08:00:35 PM
I noticed that a lot of the shrubs planted along the wall last year have died.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: TheMedz on February 20, 2011, 08:03:29 PM
I wonder whether Ed "Milipede" and any of the Welsh Labour Spring Conference colleagues made it down on to West Shore or any shore in town this weekend?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: dwsi on February 20, 2011, 08:32:41 PM
Does on the prom count as on the beach?
http://adrianmastersitv.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/img_1310.jpg (http://adrianmastersitv.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/img_1310.jpg)
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on February 20, 2011, 08:43:18 PM
 ed did ask me why we didn,t have a cycle lane on the prom,  ;D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: brumbob on February 20, 2011, 09:52:56 PM
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Does on the prom count as on the beach?
It does when the prom is covered with sand
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: dwsi on February 20, 2011, 09:59:12 PM
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Does on the prom count as on the beach?
It does when the prom is covered with sand

 _))*
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on February 21, 2011, 11:06:06 AM
Diggers and a Mini Muckshift working on sand removal from the footpath by the lake this morning.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 08, 2011, 03:01:11 PM
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That's a bit of a tricky one, Hugo, as how much of the work is carried out under the guise of normal street cleaning? I suspect they would say that no breakdown of the work carried out is kept.


I thought I'd have a try and send an e-mail asking for a breakdown of the cost of sand clearance on the West Shore:-
Dear Sir or Madam,
Is it possible to say how much money is spent on the cost of sand clearance on the West Shore Llandudno.   That is the cost of clearing the sand from the Promenade, pond, lake etc without the cost to clearing any from the public roads in that area.

This is the reply I have received:-

Dear Mr Hughes
With regards to your enquiry re the cost of sand clearance at West Shore, Environmental Services advise that over the last three years an average of £2000 per annum has been spent.
If for whatever reason you are unhappy with the response please contact us direct by e-mail or by post addressed to Conwy County Borough Council, Information Regulations Unit, Bodlondeb, Conwy, LL32 8DU

With the cost of Lorries,diggers and machinery as well as labour all I can say about the reply is that I'm glad that I'm not the CCBC's auditor!      :o

 

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 10, 2011, 11:52:43 AM
I had a walk along the West Shore promenade yesterday but had to turn around by the White Rabbit statue as the sand was blowing into my face.
It didn't stop the windsurfer though from having a great time on the water, He was going like a rocket over the crest of the waves and was thoroughly enjoying himself, but I was glad to return to the car after my short walk.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on March 10, 2011, 02:39:58 PM
Drove past this a.m. and the sand is building up again !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Quiggs on March 10, 2011, 03:27:09 PM
I wonder what happened to the 'West Shore Group' who were going to try and sort it out?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: brumbob on March 10, 2011, 03:34:09 PM
probably up to their neck in it, sand that is  :laugh:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 10, 2011, 05:20:24 PM
I was walking on the West Shore again today and definitely picked the wrong time to do it.     The blowing sand was really bad but the driving rain and hail finished me off.
I only had a very quick walk and had to go home to dry as I got absolutely soaked!       :(
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bellringer on March 28, 2011, 01:44:15 PM
Poor swans languishing this morning in very little water in the boating pool - it has obviously been drained.

A local resident was having the sand removed by Eddie Hall from her front path which had become hazardous. A local councillor had suggested Eddie Hall when it was mentioned - so no help from the council then!!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: brumbob on March 28, 2011, 03:20:00 PM
I only washed the car the weekend, today it's covered in sand  :rage:
and I'm 130 miles away
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on March 31, 2011, 11:56:57 AM
Tried to walk on the front at West Shore this a.m. but the blowing sand was like dermabrasion. Returned home with both ears full, a sandy coated dog, and a mucky car !

Think I might have parked next to you Hugo, but must have gone in the opposite direction.!!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 31, 2011, 07:16:06 PM
I wasn't there today Nemesis but  I normally park by the Anwyl Flats and walk towards the boating lake and then back again.   On a good day it'll be nice if Frizzy and Marco get to meet each other, I'm sure they'll get on fine.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on April 01, 2011, 08:07:40 AM
Keep it clean please!  Children can read this.     L0L
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on April 01, 2011, 11:12:36 AM
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I wasn't there today Nemesis but  I normally park by the Anwyl Flats and walk towards the boating lake and then back again.   On a good day it'll be nice if Frizzy and Marco get to meet each other, I'm sure they'll get on fine.


Must be someone else with the same type of car.

Despite comments otherwise I'm sure Frizzy and Marco would be fine ! Daren't let him off the lead as yet, as he is 10 times faster than me !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on April 01, 2011, 01:27:56 PM
Marco's old enough now to be let off the lead there but I still need to keep an eye on him as he's still a bit stupid!
He met a pair of Bichons on the West Shore recently and played well with them.
It was high tide and Charlie the Bichon ran straight for the sea quickly  followed by Marco but Charlie was clever enough to stop at the water's edge whereas Marco just ran past into the deep water. So I had one soggy dog on the back seat when I drove home.   
Wouldn't change him for the world though.   :)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on April 01, 2011, 04:12:53 PM
 _))* _))* _))*
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on April 01, 2011, 04:28:20 PM
I am reminded of the old lady who had a pair of minature poodles, one male and one female.  The male unfortunately died and fretting about the loss the female passed on the following day.  The lady was distraught about her loss but realised that she was too old to replace them so decided to have them preserved as a permanent reminder of the happy time she had with them.  She went to the local taxidermist who quoted her a price and asked, "Would you like them mounted!"    "Oh! No!", she said " . . just shaking hands".    _))*
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on April 01, 2011, 05:21:02 PM
As it was windy today but still  quite warm and sunny so I had a walk on the grass on the West Shore   :roll:  and before long I had a blast of sand down the old ear hole so for the rest of the walk my jacket hood was up.
The boating lake is still empty so I suppose that the CCBC are preparing to clear the sand in readiness for the Easter Bank Holiday. It's not far off so they need to get a move on.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on April 02, 2011, 11:14:44 AM
Hmmm Hope it isn't like last year or we shall have another upset with the locals and the swans.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Trojan on April 03, 2011, 01:30:33 AM
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As it was windy today but still  quite warm and sunny so I had a walk on the grass on the West Shore   :roll:  and before long I had a blast of sand down the old ear hole so for the rest of the walk my jacket hood was up.

Windy day + West Shore = blowing sand.

Some people are gluttons for punishment.  :laugh:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Trojan on April 03, 2011, 01:35:11 AM
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Despite comments otherwise I'm sure Frizzy and Marco would be fine ! Daren't let him off the lead as yet, as he is 10 times faster than me!

As Yorkie said.....keep it clean please, children can read this!  $scratch$








 :laugh:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on April 03, 2011, 06:04:02 PM
 :P :P :P
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on April 05, 2011, 02:57:49 PM
They seem to be getting on with the sand clearance today, hope that they remember to clear out the White Rabbit pond at the same time, unlike last year!!     ???
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on April 05, 2011, 03:50:56 PM
 ummm and where did the sand go  NOT back over the wall  ;D ;D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blodyn on April 05, 2011, 03:56:23 PM
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They seem to be getting on with the sand clearance today, hope that they remember to clear out the White Rabbit pond at the same time, unlike last year!!     ???

I walked past the White Rabbit pond on Saturday and there were three chaps busy shovelling out sand. 
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on April 06, 2011, 11:14:55 AM
It's good that they have cleared the White Rabbit pond as well because it makes sense to clean the two ponds at the same time.
Last year they forgot to do it so I sent an e-mail request asking them to clear the sand out of the White Rabbit pond and they eventually did but then forgot to put any water in the pond.  It actually just filled up with sand again and rainwater!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on April 06, 2011, 11:25:22 AM
It's getting more and more apparent that just cleaning out the pond endlessly is pointless - it doesn't last for more than a week before it starts to fill up with sand again. I say it's time to move the White Rabbit statue and fill the pond in.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on April 06, 2011, 11:32:54 AM
Considering the extremely tenuous connection with Alice and the White Rabbit, I think it should be consigned to the foundations of the next major building project in the area!   $good$

Pity they have finished the Maesdu Bridge.    ;D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on April 07, 2011, 06:04:02 PM
 :(Im sure the new Mayor Cll G Robbins will sort it out,diolch. Z**
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: JasonW on April 07, 2011, 10:42:07 PM
Minature Railway planning application before Planning Committee next week:
CODE No. 0/37493
EXPIRY DATE: 19/01/2011
APPLICANT: Mr M Brown
PROPOSAL: Construction of a miniature railway
SITE: Land to the rear of Dale Road Cafe, West Shore,
Llandudno
WARD: Mostyn
RECOMMENDATION
A) Minded to grant conditional planning permission

We have received a letter of objection from local residents

See Agenda item 5b
http://modgoveng.conwy.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=205&MId=2373&Ver=4 (http://modgoveng.conwy.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=205&MId=2373&Ver=4)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Llechwedd on April 18, 2011, 11:55:46 AM
OK this is todays silly question.  You know when they turn off the water and drain the yacht pond?  The little stream in Abbey Place doesn't overflow so what happens is the water backed up to the mine in the Orme?  When they turn on the water does it surge out?  Or does it come out somewhere else whilst the pool is turned off?  Just intrigued.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Llechwedd on April 18, 2011, 11:57:02 AM
Noticed yesterday that the gate to Marine Drive just past the west shore toll house has been partially destroyed.  What's left of it looks burned.  Anyone know what happened?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on April 18, 2011, 12:01:47 PM
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OK this is todays silly question.  You know when they turn off the water and drain the yacht pond?  The little stream in Abbey Place doesn't overflow so what happens is the water backed up to the mine in the Orme?  When they turn on the water does it surge out?  Or does it come out somewhere else whilst the pool is turned off?  Just intrigued.
The outlet valve to the beach is just left open, so the water enters the pond as normal and flows straight out again.  :)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on April 18, 2011, 12:04:58 PM
 :)Well LLechwedd what happens is the water still runs into the pond and straight into the sea ,so the pond is never completly dry. :roll:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on April 18, 2011, 12:18:12 PM
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Noticed yesterday that the gate to Marine Drive just past the west shore toll house has been partially destroyed.  What's left of it looks burned.  Anyone know what happened?

I noticed it for the first time when I walked around the Orme last week and wondered what it was.  Anyway a few days later I remembered a conversation I had had some weeks ago and I believe it may have been caused by someone who stole a car and set it alight there. The stolen car actually belonged to my nephew!       :rage:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on April 18, 2011, 04:17:09 PM
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Noticed yesterday that the gate to Marine Drive just past the west shore toll house has been partially destroyed.  What's left of it looks burned.  Anyone know what happened?

Is this what you saw Llechwedd?   You can see from the scorch marks on the ground that the vehicle was torched there.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Llechwedd on April 19, 2011, 12:20:42 PM
Oh yes I have seen a trickle going across the lake.  Seems obvious now you've explained. Thanks.

Yes that's the gate I saw.  What a shame.  Hope no one was hurt.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on April 19, 2011, 06:40:22 PM

Yes that's the gate I saw.  What a shame.  Hope no one was hurt.
[/quote

No one was hurt Llechwedd because we haven't found out who stole the car yet!   
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Micox on May 17, 2011, 09:23:47 PM
Sand season over? Very quiet here, I can hear the gnashing of the rats in the rocks!

Just why don't they routinely harvest the blown sand and dump it on the north shore?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on May 21, 2011, 08:48:13 AM
 ZXZ I know i keep asking this question without anyone knowing but its worth another try, does anyone know what the Friends ot West Shore have achieved yet or what plans they have and no shrubs need to be mentioned as most are dead.  D)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on May 21, 2011, 01:54:26 PM
Mountains of sand on the prom again this morning when I walked the dog-- the Alice pond is 1/2 empty again as well.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on May 26, 2011, 04:48:21 PM
 :o I hope Jason manages to get the Cycle path cleared intime for the Prom day dash on 3 june. WWW
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2011, 11:43:51 PM
I keep checking back to this post looking for an answer to Wrex's question. I found this:  (http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2010/06/03/volunteers-could-revive-llandudno-s-west-shore-55243-26573899/) and its exciting that funds could be made available. I'm guessing nothings happened though? Also found this, maybe an unfair comparison but...wow!  (http://www.friendswestshore.org/). Organised or what!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2011, 11:45:25 PM
Hmph, sorry, URL issues, won't be a tick...
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2011, 11:50:36 PM
I keep checking back to this post looking for an answer to Wrex's question. I found this: Llandudno Friends of West Shore  (http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2010/06/03/volunteers-could-revive-llandudno-s-west-shore-55243-26573899/) which you will have already seen and its exciting that funds could be made available. I'm guessing nothings happened though? Also found this, maybe an unfair comparison but...wow Lake Tahoe (http://www.friendswestshore.org/) - organised or what!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Trojan on June 09, 2011, 12:15:22 AM
Good find Rob. Makes me want to pop to the West Shore this weekend.  D)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on June 22, 2011, 02:13:08 PM
I see in the Pioneer that the Friends of West Shore plan to relocate the White Rabbit Statue....to the middle of the Lake.  :o
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on June 22, 2011, 05:25:26 PM
That means that the "lake" will be full of stones and rocks thrown at the statue by the usual yobs.   ££$

Get rid of the rabbit and the whole Alice image.   The town has more famous people to celebrate other than Dodgson.   WWW
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on June 22, 2011, 05:46:16 PM
Sounds as though we are having a White Rabbit trail with paw preints to follow :o into the lake probably !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on June 26, 2011, 01:35:59 PM
 :roll: Just walked to Conwy and back and there where quite q few cyclists out today and yes theyu had to walk most of the cycle path from the West Shore to black rocks,now we all new there was a mini heatwave this weekend and there would be thousands useing the cycle path,so who in CCBC is responsible for clearing the path and why was it not done.Ihave said it before and i;ll say it again ,why can;t they have the naughty boys on probation down there once a week to clear it. D)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on July 10, 2011, 11:49:24 AM
 :-  A couple of weeks ago the FOTWS group announced they were getting new play equiptment for the play area ,it looks very sparse at the moment :'(
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on July 11, 2011, 06:38:38 PM
 D) Glad to report that the cycle paths is clear at the moment so this is your chance. ZXZ
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Trojan on July 13, 2011, 01:22:58 AM
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D) Glad to report that the cycle paths is clear at the moment so this is your chance. ZXZ

 :cyclist40:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: margo on July 13, 2011, 06:52:16 AM
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:roll: Just walked to Conwy and back and there where quite q few cyclists out today and yes theyu had to walk most of the cycle path from the West Shore to black rocks,now we all new there was a mini heatwave this weekend and there would be thousands useing the cycle path,so who in CCBC is responsible for clearing the path and why was it not done.Ihave said it before and i;ll say it again ,why can;t they have the naughty boys on probation down there once a week to clear it. D)
i'm with wrex on this one
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: TheMedz on July 20, 2011, 05:37:31 PM
Cycle path all sanded up in places again today. I ended up under the bike stupidly trying to negotiate on of the sandier bits. Lesson in life number 1 - sand is nice and soft to fall on but not when the bike comes down on top of you.
Title: Friends of the West Shore
Post by: wrex on September 25, 2011, 10:34:47 AM
Does anybody know when they are going to improve the play area as promised, the only thing i think they achieved up to now is the row of shrubs they planted ontop of the wall which do not look very healthy. ££$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 06, 2011, 06:26:14 PM
I had a walk on the West Shore today anorak on with the hood up and sunglasses to protect my eyes from the driving sand. Didn't walk as far as the boating lake though as it was horrendous at about 3.00pm.
Can't imagine what it must be like there now as the wind here is gale force!
Plenty of sand blowing about and the grassed area is getting smaller and smaller but it's only going to get worse with the Winter storms that lie ahead.      :(
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on October 07, 2011, 10:18:51 AM
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news//tm_headline=council-tries-to-clear-sand-from-cycle-path-in-a-gale%26method=full%26objectid=29553981%26siteid=55578-name_page.html (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news//tm_headline=council-tries-to-clear-sand-from-cycle-path-in-a-gale%26method=full%26objectid=29553981%26siteid=55578-name_page.html)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on October 07, 2011, 10:40:34 AM
just been reading the story in the paper ,what a joke i can just see it now the lads saying to the boss ???  but boss when we clear the sand it will only blow back ,boss says do as your told i,m in charge  _))* who gave these bosses the jobs must have had a great sense of humour ;D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian48 on October 07, 2011, 10:46:26 AM
I have been reading with interest some of the suggestions from the Friends of West Shore regarding their plans to smarten up the area.

They say their top priority is to move the White Rabbit statue to the middle of the boating lake.

While trying to be polite, I think this is one of the daftest suggestions that I have ever heard regarding the statue and to spend public money on it would be a real waste. The boating lake is a large body of water and the statue is fairly small as statues go.

If you visualise the statue being in the middle of the lake, then it doesn't take much to realise that it will be completely overwhelmed, you'd be lucky if you could see even the remotest detail of the statue.

While no-body wants to see it permanently surrounded by its glorified rabbit cage, at least you can see what it is and read the inscription. In the middle of the lake it would lose any significance it has at the moment, due to it being disproportionately small to retain any.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on October 07, 2011, 02:18:08 PM
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just been reading the story in the paper ,what a joke i can just see it now the lads saying to the boss ???  but boss when we clear the sand it will only blow back ,boss says do as your told i,m in charge  _))* who gave these bosses the jobs must have had a great sense of humour ;D

The picture amused me !! Lawrence of Arabia is just coming out from behind the dumper !!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 07, 2011, 04:26:12 PM
Thanks for posting that link Nemesis and it just shows you how stupid CCBC has been in relation to the West Shore.  Common sense and CCBC are as far apart as ever.
As I've said many times before the dry sand is just put back on the beach BUT above the high water mark where it remains dry and light in weight. So consequently it's going to blow back especially in a gale force 8 howler!   
Llandudno UDC began the demise of the West Shore and they started spoiling it with that stupid new Sea Defence and they ruined what once were lovely sandhills.   They started putting rubbish on the top of the sand hills and when I asked some local people about it, I was told it was done like that as they wanted to build a "road" to Deganwy. 
Now there is talk of moving the cycle track to the top of the dunes.   CCBC are just going round and round in circles and who knows where they'll end up!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on October 07, 2011, 06:03:38 PM
 :) I ve said it ten times and i will say it again, put the community offenders on it, NO COST. One day a week will help keep it clear,no build up ,sorted. :rage:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on October 07, 2011, 06:33:07 PM
You know what they say Hugo--- if you go round in circles for long enough you disappear up your own orifice! Perhaps DaveR will be there with his camera when they do!! $hands$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on October 09, 2011, 04:01:52 PM
 ;)Walked past the rabbit statue this morning, the new sandhills behind the statue must have grown a foot higher since my last walk 2 weeks ago , i wonder how high CCBC are going to allow these new sandhills to grow. L0L
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on October 09, 2011, 04:39:53 PM
I heard they were going to import a couple of camels and do camel rides along the beach!   _))*
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on October 09, 2011, 04:58:36 PM
Got plenty of sheets and tea towels for the uniform !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on October 09, 2011, 05:43:14 PM
Well I believe it's true that a camel is in fact a horse designed by a Town Council! L0L
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on October 09, 2011, 05:59:59 PM
Did it get the hump? _))*
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on October 09, 2011, 06:31:16 PM
Yes - Two of them - It was a BACK-trian Camel!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on October 09, 2011, 09:40:42 PM
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;)Walked past the rabbit statue this morning, the new sandhills behind the statue must have grown a foot higher since my last walk 2 weeks ago , i wonder how high CCBC are going to allow these new sandhills to grow. L0L
The situation in Rhyl is no better!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 27, 2011, 04:08:22 PM
I had a walk around the boating lake today and nothing has improved. The white Rabbit's left arm is missing as well as its left ear and the Swan was left high and dry!       :rage:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on November 03, 2011, 09:21:38 PM
 :-[ Does anybody know when we are going to see any results from the HARD work done by the FOTWS group ,i have not seen any visual signs up to now. :'(
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on November 03, 2011, 09:38:16 PM
I believe I read that two picnic benches had been installed somewhere?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on November 03, 2011, 09:44:25 PM
 :oCracking result  ZXZ
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on November 04, 2011, 10:26:37 AM
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I believe I read that two picnic benches had been installed somewhere?

Any idea where?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on November 04, 2011, 11:15:23 AM
I think it was in the Weekly News or Pioneer this week about it.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on November 04, 2011, 02:14:26 PM
sorry ---I was enquiring as to whereabouts the benches had been positioned !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on November 04, 2011, 03:09:45 PM
 I think they where placed behind the White Rabbit statue but have now been covered by the ever bigger sand dunes the council are building. WWW
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on November 06, 2011, 11:13:04 AM
Just come back from a short stroll at the West Shore--- the new picnic benches are next to the toilets, on the paved area. painted blue, they look very smart.
Same cannot be said for the lake and the White Rabbit.
Shame, as the area was quite busy, people were enjoying the sun, even a pond yacht in use on the lake, GOES or some other cavers were just setting off into the Orme via the Pen Morfa Adit, and there were dozens of people on the side of the Orme walking and scrambling up the zig-zag path. The playground was busy and people were playing football on the grass.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on November 06, 2011, 12:08:08 PM
Just a shame the FOTWS group have not had the impact the FOC-Y-DP have had ,no wonder the cons have changed their soldiers.
Title: West shore beach dirty!
Post by: Llechwedd on November 10, 2011, 11:54:06 AM
In The Guardian yesterday it reported that - "Ten beaches in England and Wales could be branded 'no swim zones' by the EU after failing Defra's pollution tests.

Blackpool Central and South
St Anne's north and Pier
Half Moon Bay, Heysham
Fleetwood
Walpole, Margate
Ilfracombe Capstone
Combe Martin
West Shore, Llandudno

Wonder what went wrong?
Title: Re: West shore beach dirty!
Post by: Yorkie on November 10, 2011, 02:21:29 PM
Only one beach out of 88 tested in Wales has failed to meet basic water quality standards this year.

Llandudno west shore was one of 10 beaches across Wales and England which did not meet minimum requirements for public health and the environment.

Dwr Cymru Welsh Water said the Llandudno sample was taken when heavy rain may have affected the result.
Title: Re: West shore beach dirty!
Post by: Hugo on November 10, 2011, 06:25:10 PM
If you think it's bad now then you should have tried swimming there in the 1960's.  If I remember correctly there were over 20 sewage outfalls going directly into the River Conwy.       :puke2:
Ignorance is bliss because it never stopped me from  enjoying swimming there although one of my friends may not have felt the same.    ???
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: TheMedz on November 12, 2011, 05:44:45 PM
In the yet again glorious sunshine this afternoon we walked down to West Shore via Haulfre Gardens. The pathway from Haulfre down to the shore was absolutely packed with people just sitting on the benches and taking in the sunshine. I can't remember having seen more people on that route even in summer.

Once we got down onto West shore the White Rabbit was surrounded by visitors having their photograph taken next to it (they were stood on the sand in the pool around it but hey ho).

In the background  on the wall near the road were two young girls dressed as Alice (not sure what that was about but no I hadn't been drinking).

My most pleasant surprise of the walk was the "sandless" state of the Bike Path from West Shore and down towards Conway. I believe the whole length that we walked including up to the railway bridge just short of Deganwy  is now passable without dismount on a bike and was also being used by a lot of people, some of them with pushchairs and prams.

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on December 01, 2011, 03:40:00 PM
Despite all the sand on the grass it was lovely walking along the West Shore today.  It was bitterly cold day but at least it was dry and the sand was not blowing in my face.
The windsurfer was enjoying himself in the sea and travelling quite fast along the waves.
I walked along as far as the White Rabbit statue and was disappointed to see more damage to the statue than when I was last here. One ear and hand has gone from the Rabbit but the Frog has gone completely and there has been some damage to the face of the Squirrel.
I'm afraid that it will keep happening with the mindless yobs that continue to do the damage. What surprises me though is that there are no CCTV cameras about to cover the statue or the nearby toilets and childrens playground.   There is one by the paddling pool in Craig Y Don but not on the West Shore.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Llechwedd on December 08, 2011, 01:24:25 PM
Just been reading about a hoo hah re. a fountain on the West shore.  It's easy put the rabbit in the lake and the fountain where the rabbit used to be. Sorted!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on December 08, 2011, 01:41:19 PM
OMG I can just imagine a fountain on a day like this !!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on December 08, 2011, 04:18:16 PM
Better still, sink the rabbit in the depths of the ocean, fill the pool with concrete and voile - no more problems.
 :D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on December 09, 2011, 09:52:55 AM
Row over rival bids for statues in Llandudno boating lake
Dec 8 2011
North Wales Weekly News

TWO different organisations are vying to put an attraction in the middle of a boating lake and one of them has suggested there is room in it for both structures.

But the suggestion has been vetoed by voluntary group Friends of West Shore which has already obtained funding to move Llandudno’s world famous White Rabbit statue to the middle of the lake.

The Friends are angry that rival organisation Llandudno Civic Council, which is also made up of volunteers, is seeking funding to erect a fountain.

“I’m flabbergasted that the Civic Council should be doing this. Surely they must know about our plans to put the White Rabbit in the middle of the lake which are already well advanced.

“They should have consulted us before getting involved in looking for funding for their own project. To suggest there is room for two structures in the lake is ridiculous,” complained Friends chairman, Margaret Lyon.

But David Hampson, press officer for the Civic Council, which holds monthly meetings to discuss issues in the resort, said it would forge ahead with its negotiations to get funding for an illuminated fountain.

He said the council, whose members are unelected, had approached Welsh Water and alternative energy company npower renewables for their backing for their project.

They hope to get a share of a community package being offered by npower to towns on the North Wales coast to offset the impact of the massive Gwynt y Mor off shore wind farm which is now under construction.

“There us no reason why we can’t have both the White Rabbit statue and a fountain in the lake. I’m glad that the Friends of the West Shore have taken the initiative to move the statue to protect it from vandalism, and they have the full support of the Civic Council in that. Maybe we’ll have to split the lake in half,” he suggested.

But Margaret Lyon, who is also a county councillor for the Gogarth ward described this suggestion as unrealistic.
“What the Civic Council seems to have forgotten is that the boating lake is county council property and the council’s consent is needed to put anything in it.

“As far as I’m aware the Civic Council has not sought this, in contrast with the Friends who have gone through the proper channels, and will shortly be seeking planning permission to move the White Rabbit to the middle of the lake,” she stressed.

http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2011/12/08/row-over-rival-bids-for-statues-in-llandudno-boating-lake-55243-29912563/ (http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2011/12/08/row-over-rival-bids-for-statues-in-llandudno-boating-lake-55243-29912563/)

 :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on December 09, 2011, 10:04:33 AM
I still can't see the point of putting the statue in the lake, when the lake  is drained vandals can still get to it!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Pendragon on December 09, 2011, 10:28:01 AM
I wouldn't chance it if the swans are there ME.  They can be quite defensive over their lake.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on December 09, 2011, 10:55:13 AM
The statue in the lake is a stupid idea, it's a small statue and will look ridiculous in the middle of a large boating lake.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on December 09, 2011, 11:37:25 AM
Lets have a new statue, 3 times the size so it can be seen, encased in a solid block of resin to protect it  WWW
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on December 09, 2011, 01:25:44 PM
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I still can't see the point of putting the statue in the lake, when the lake  is drained vandals can still get to it!

And when it is not drained the yobs will be throwing rocks at it!     &shake&
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on December 09, 2011, 11:02:38 PM
All very sad.
Placing a statue, fountain or both in the BOATING lake will not be the answer to years of neglect at West Shore.
The place is a disgace for THE premier resort on the North Wales coast.
I am sure Eastbourne,  Bournemouth or other south coast resorts would not have allowed part of thier town to go downhill in this way.
Come on Llandudno get your act together.
It saddens me to see things going downhill like this.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on December 09, 2011, 11:21:41 PM
Two observations fro me..

Firstly, its not actually a BOATING lake is it?  In my day a boating lake was a very large expanse of water, (such as Peasholm Park in Scarborough) where you could row boats, or paddle canoes.  This is just a shallow area for model boats.

Secondly, I was at West Shore tonight, and the 'boating' lake is so badly silted up that the swans have a large beach if they want to use it.
In fact the walkway along the sea wall is so badly covered with colossal drifts of sand that the steps are all hidden, and it is nigh on impassable in parts.

Its going to cost a lot of money and time to clear all that!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on December 10, 2011, 10:50:44 AM
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Its going to cost a lot of money and time to clear all that!
Cllr Mike Priestley has offered to pose with a shovel on the sand, if that's any use?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on December 20, 2011, 06:17:51 PM
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Its going to cost a lot of money and time to clear all that!
Cllr Mike Priestley has offered to pose with a shovel on the sand, if that's any use?

It'll need more than a shovel for this lot Dave, the sand is about as high as I've ever seen it and there are the Winter Storms ahead. The sand now is even above the wall by the pavement and as for the shrubs they planted some time ago, well they are under there somewhere but they are dead now.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on December 21, 2011, 08:27:37 AM
Lovely pic of Marco Hugo. Most dogs seem to climb up to the top-- bit like children!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: hollins on December 21, 2011, 12:42:37 PM
I have bought the book recently Llandudno Queen of the Welsh Resorts after reading about it on this forum. There were a couple of newspaper cuttings inside it. Here is one of them which maybe of interest.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on December 21, 2011, 06:30:24 PM
  ;DLook behind the statue ,you can see how low theturf used to be,know of course its higher than the wall.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on December 21, 2011, 08:19:33 PM
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  ;DLook behind the statue ,you can see how low theturf used to be,know of course its higher than the wall.
To be fair, wasn't it raised when they built the underground pumping station? There are many manhole covers set into the grass around there, if the levels had risen, then they would surely be covered?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on December 22, 2011, 07:47:33 AM
Well the grass is level with the slabs around the statue so we can go by that.Of course the sand never came over there until they put all the groins and rocks there and to be fair the sea does not come over but the sand does.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Llechwedd on December 22, 2011, 01:07:20 PM
Your right Fester it's not a boating lake it's a yacht pond.  It was always called that when we were kids and we used to take a model yacht down there as did many others.

Some idiot has built up the beach and covered all the steps so the sea is much higher now than it was.  If it was put back the way it was the sea would be lower and perhaps not so much sand would blow over.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on December 22, 2011, 01:15:32 PM
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Some idiot has built up the beach and covered all the steps so the sea is much higher now than it was.  If it was put back the way it was the sea would be lower and perhaps not so much sand would blow over.

I always thought th height of the sea was controlled by the tides and the phases of the moon, not the amount of sand!    :-X
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Llechwedd on December 23, 2011, 01:14:01 PM
Well think about it.  If the sea is having to travel over higher land i.e. beach then naturally everything is going to be blown over the walls.  If the beach were lowered to its original height and the steps exposed it might, just might help.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: majormellons on December 23, 2011, 03:19:06 PM
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Well think about it.  If the sea is having to travel over higher land i.e. beach then naturally everything is going to be blown over the walls.  If the beach were lowered to its original height and the steps exposed it might, just might help.

Er....no.
The Sea Level would remain the same hight, no matter what was done to the beach.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on December 23, 2011, 10:53:18 PM
It has nothing to do with sea level. that varies with the tides, high.low sping or neap.
If you build the height of the sand up to the same level as the top of the steps it is obvious that when it is not covered by water it will blow over the wall , lake ,grass and then the road .
Something has to be done about it but how it will be funded is another matter.
The scheme to build the breakwaters was thought up around 1980.
Does anyone remember whose idea it was and are they still in business ?
 If so would they like to come backand put things right ?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on January 03, 2012, 12:10:27 PM
Anyone got photos of the West Shore sandhills after this mornings stormy weather ?

 :( $angry$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 03, 2012, 05:22:31 PM
I drove down Abbey Road to the West Shore this afternoon and met the first sandstorm just before I reached St David's Hospice.    :o It's the worst I've seen the sand and I didn't bother to get out of the car to take these photos.
Something drastic needs to be done as the drains are getting blocked with the sand and the situation is getting worse. There's no point in a sand clearing operation yet either as the Winter storms have only just started and there's more sand to come.
Now if anyone has any doubts about the original height levels around the White Rabbit statue or the damage caused by the idiots who who were consulted and built the latest sea defence then please look at the third picture carefully.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on January 03, 2012, 05:33:47 PM
Things do seem to be getting a bit out of hand with the sand!  :o
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on January 03, 2012, 06:10:21 PM
Hugo
Thanks for posting the photos.
You are right, something must be done.
At the time the breakwaters were proposed my Mum and Dad lived at the West Shore end of town. I remember him forecasting that they building up trouble for the future.
For sure it will only get worse.
How about buying a few camels. Could go well with visitors .........money to be made.
Do you need a licence from the council to operate camel rides.
An application for one might draw the councils attention that there is a  problem.

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on January 03, 2012, 06:39:08 PM
I couldn't resist taking a look at West Shore this lunchtime.
The sand situation is now completely out of control.

I wanted to watch the stormy sea roll in against the shore, but I couldn't get out of the car because each time I tried I got my face sandblasted.

Now, you can basically walk up a sand dune, and straight over a buried sea wall!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: emma p on January 03, 2012, 07:33:48 PM
these pictures are shocking......i would imagine the residents of the west shore are well chuffed off. Not good at all.  :o
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 03, 2012, 07:48:37 PM
Mull, your Dad was spot on and if the powers that be had consulted the locals and not the consultants then this situation would never have arisen.
When I was a teenager I spent many hours swimming from the steps on the shore, mainly from those by the Toll Gate and there was never a problem in that area. The sea at high tide lapped the bottom of the series of steps but not once in my memory did it come over the wall.
I have a vague memory of Llandudno U D C saying that the steps were being undermined and I think that the Council went with the cheapest option. That info should be available now under the Freedom of Information Act.
Again if my memory serves me right then these very same consultants came up with a proposal for the North Shore and it was that a breakwater be built like in Rhos on Sea only that in this case the suggested breakwater would cover most of the bay. Thankfully that never happened but they did spoil the steps on the North Shore by putting rocks on them instead.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: TheMedz on January 03, 2012, 07:54:38 PM
Fester I think we are missing a trick. Face Sandblasting. The number of faces( mine up amongst the top of them) that could benefit with that beauty therapy. We could make millions.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on January 03, 2012, 08:13:01 PM
If you look at the metal lamp posts on the Prom at West Shore, the seaward sides have lost all their paint due to the sand blasting.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: dwsi on January 03, 2012, 08:50:13 PM
Conwy County Borough Council : Deganwy and West Shore http://bit.ly/wNcd1f (http://bit.ly/wNcd1f)


At Llandudno West Shore, the low levels and highly developed nature of the hinterland make this one of the key sections of shoreline in the County for coastal defence.  The first, minor, works took place in 1905 and were breached on many occasions as the town developed, eventually requiring major remedial works in 1936.  In the 1950's a stepped concrete revetment with wave return wall and sheet piled steel toe was constructed.

However beach levels continued to fall and exposure conditions increased, requiring major coastal defence works in 1992 consisting of three shore-connected rock breakwaters and cobble beach nourishment.  The upper beach - with movement restricted by the breakwaters - is now effectively providing primary coastal defence across the West Shore frontage.

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: dwsi on January 03, 2012, 09:04:39 PM
if you look at google maps' satellite view, it looks like the design of the north breakwater is to blame for the sandblasting http://g.co/maps/d9b8q (http://g.co/maps/d9b8q)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 03, 2012, 11:09:26 PM
That may be partly true Dwsi, but it's the artificially increased height of the beach that is causing the problem. It acts as a ramp and sends any drifting sand up in the air and the sand is then carried onto the Promenade.
That plus the fact that they cannot put the sand back on the beach below the high water mark has the effect of increasing that height even further.
If you look at some parts of this sea defence they are nearly to the height of the wall and that's got to be wrong.
There is another problem area where the other groyne is (near the new Anwyl Apartments) and I was talking to the owner of the nursing home that was previously  on that spot and he had to shift 10 ton of sand from his front garden and even had about 2 inches of sand in the attic above the bedroom ceilings!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on January 04, 2012, 08:45:13 AM
Gradually the sand is travelling towards the North Shore, particularly after a day like yesterday, Our house windows on the west side of each bay are forever having to be hosed, same with the car. If not we can't see out, also it is no good dealing with the matter with a bucket and cloth as the nature of the sand is very abrasive.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on January 04, 2012, 08:55:56 AM
It would seem that the breakwater is raising the height of the beach a little too effectively!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on January 04, 2012, 04:56:31 PM
Just been down to West Shore with Fester, what a mess the place looks - photos to follow when I get back home. Almost impossible to walk there with so much sand blowing about.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 04, 2012, 05:12:01 PM
You've got more guts than me Dave, I was there about 2.00 pm but I didn't even open the car window this time. The sand wasn't blowing as bad as yesterday possibly because it was raining and therefore the sand was heavier but what a mess!
I noticed that there are mini sand hills on the old Loretta Tennis Courts now.   I'm looking forward to seeing your photos just to see how bad it is after the storms
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on January 04, 2012, 05:21:38 PM
West Shore this afternoon. Photos taken on iPhone just before Dusk so poor quality. Man in blue anorak is Mr Fester:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on January 04, 2012, 05:51:49 PM
The pictures don't do justice to how horrific the wind was..... it was very difficult to walk... and Dave and I got sandblasted to hell.
I think Dave took a quick Youtube vid which would illustrate the point very well. (If he gets chance to post it)

The things we do to bring 'up to the minute' local news to this Forum!   ZXZ
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on January 04, 2012, 05:59:29 PM
Theres the video of 'Fester of Arabia' here, its only a few seconds long, please turn the sound down before viewing as the wind noise is very loud:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnBcDplMG7Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnBcDplMG7Y#)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: dwsi on January 04, 2012, 06:30:29 PM
Did DaveR stay in the car while his personal manservant Fester was sent into the storm to have his photo taken?  $lol$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on January 04, 2012, 07:59:23 PM
 :laugh:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on January 04, 2012, 10:05:41 PM
 :laugh: :laugh:   Well, I think you can tell by the noise of the wind that Dave was out there with me, braving the elements.

But then of course I was required to bring the car round, and chauffeur him home.   L0L    ^*^0
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bellringer on January 04, 2012, 10:21:38 PM
I was along there this evening between 7 and 8 and it seemed that the wind had obviously moderated a bit - it was still fairly windy though. I didn't get out of the car to see!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: snowcap on January 04, 2012, 10:39:19 PM
how the wind distorts things, you look like you,v put on weight over the festive season fester, or is it the i phone that distorts your image. lol
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: dwsi on January 04, 2012, 11:25:29 PM
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:laugh: :laugh:   Well, I think you can tell by the noise of the wind that Dave was out there with me, braving the elements.

But then of course I was required to bring the car round, and chauffeur him home.   L0L    ^*^0

noise of the wind? i thought that was DaveR blowing into the mic  :laugh:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: CurlyCap on January 04, 2012, 11:45:17 PM
Wow those pictures are unbelievable !! Poor Swans !!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on January 05, 2012, 12:12:11 AM
The swans gathered around Dave and I looking forlorn.... I will feed them tomorrow.  (lots of Xmas cake left)

Hang on a minute???   They have wings, and can fly off in search of food if they want to!!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: snowcap on January 05, 2012, 12:29:56 AM
would you fly in this wind?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: dwsi on January 05, 2012, 12:48:14 AM
why would you want to fly when there's festers xmas cake on offer  D)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on January 05, 2012, 08:37:44 AM
Wow-- the sand shown on the actual road wasn't there towards lunchtime yesterday, so all that lot must have blown across during the afternoon.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 05, 2012, 01:29:32 PM
The reports of 90mph winds in the Conwy area won't help the West Shore. It was still bad when I was there this morning and apart from the damage above ground, there is the hidden damage below with the drains.
How bad can it get before CCBC does something positive about it.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bri Roberts on January 05, 2012, 01:33:00 PM
It was never like that when I was a kid.

What has changed ?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on January 05, 2012, 02:03:05 PM
I've never seen the sand as bad as it is now at west shore. The beach level has obviously risen so far that sand just blows straight over onto the grass and beyond. Its a problem that is only going to get worse and worse without major work.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on January 05, 2012, 02:15:10 PM
Its the greater incidence of high winds, I tell you!    aaa.gif aaa.gif

Ignore climate change at your peril.   Z@@
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: martin on January 05, 2012, 03:13:09 PM
I had a drive down there this morning, what a mess, and what a cost to clean it up, let alone the cost of the work that now needs to be done to help prevent this happening in the future.  Although, with the way funding is, I don't suppose there will be any cash available for the work.  I pity those living on the "front line", their windows will be rendered opaque if this continues, as for cars parked on the roads and driveways, the sand blasting will, I assume, remove the paintwork.  I suppose we could all go down there on a Sunday morning shovels in hand and chop a few yards off the breakwater thingy that appears to be the cause of the sand build up.  Any volunteers? _))*
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on January 05, 2012, 03:17:06 PM
Set off this morning to walk the dog to West shore and back. Got as far as The Clontarf and had to turn left. Couldn't see anything but flying sand, both dog and I were blinded by it. Expected a couple of camels any minute!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 05, 2012, 05:11:32 PM
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Conwy County Borough Council : Deganwy and West Shore http://bit.ly/wNcd1

However beach levels continued to fall and exposure conditions increased, requiring major coastal defence works in 1992 consisting of three shore-connected rock breakwaters and cobble beach nourishment.  The upper beach - with movement restricted by the breakwaters - is now effectively providing primary coastal defence across the West Shore frontage. [/i]
 (http://bit.ly/wNcd1f)

I'm not an engineer or anything like that but if my house was getting undermined then the last thing I'd think of was stacking a pile of rocks against it.  The problem needed to be sorted out properly and not just a quick fix.  The breakwater in Rhos has helped the village a lot because I can remember all the flooding they had there but the breakwater is not linked to the shore in the way that they did at the West Shore.   
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on January 06, 2012, 06:42:25 PM
Incidentally, Fester and I were looking at the White Rabbit Statue yesterday and it is in a terrible state. The frog is missing completely, the squirrel is damaged, the white rabbit is missing both a paw and an ear. How pointless is the steel cage surrounding it? You can also now walk right up to it, thanks to the sand! Time to forget all these ridiculous ideas about putting it in the middle of the lake where it would be practically invisible as it is so small, get it repaired and stick it in the foyer of the Library.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on January 06, 2012, 07:36:34 PM
Or better still, consign it to the underground burrow from whence it came!   I don't think this town gets any visitors due to its "association" with the Liddels.

The Japanese and other serious Alice fans got to Daresbury.    ;)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on January 06, 2012, 08:25:18 PM
Yorkie you may be right,but the reason is because nobody in the town council has ever done anything to promote Alice until now,what did the council do to help keep the Rabbit hole going,they just let it close,oh sorry there was the Alice xmas light fiasco.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Jack on January 07, 2012, 09:02:29 AM
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Yorkie you may be right,but the reason is because nobody in the town council has ever done anything to promote Alice until now,what did the council do to help keep the Rabbit hole going,they just let it close,oh sorry there was the Alice xmas light fiasco.

But surely the Rabbit hole was a private business, how would it be a good use of taxpayers money to buy it, why not use a room at Llandudno museum to tell the story of Alice if their is such a strong link to Lewis Carroll?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on January 09, 2012, 10:53:17 AM
Small pavement sweeper and small road sweeper messing about at West Shore this morning :o
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on January 09, 2012, 11:05:50 AM
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Small pavement sweeper and small road sweeper messing about at West Shore this morning :o

they need a JCB, I suppose it's the wrong kind of sand for builders to use? or they could take it away!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: martin on January 09, 2012, 11:19:02 AM
No good for building, contains too much salt.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: dwsi on January 09, 2012, 06:01:36 PM
Gwynedd Council normally mix the sand collected from Barmouth prom with road salt to put into salt bins. Could Conwy Council be doing the same thing?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on January 09, 2012, 06:27:48 PM
I like it $good$    sounds like a great idea!

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on January 09, 2012, 09:58:59 PM
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sounds like a great idea!
Hence it will never happen in Conwy....
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: hollins on January 11, 2012, 04:30:14 PM
 I had a nice walk along the West Shore this afternoon. No blowing sand, in fact some nice sunshine but the poor old rabbit is looking a bit sad.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 12, 2012, 01:23:06 PM
It is a nice place for a stroll when the weather is good and I often take my dog for a walk there when conditions are like that.  Your photos are good Hollins and highlight the problems there are with the White Rabbit and the sand.
Last year I asked CCBC for a costing of sand clearance on the West Shore Promenade (exc road clearance) and they said it was £6K over 3 years.
This years sand clearance will probably cost that amount alone and the Winter isn't over yet.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: hollins on January 12, 2012, 04:25:00 PM
Funnily enough Hugo, there was a young man walking a dog just like yours when I was there yesterday.
Not sure if you fall into the "young man" category or not!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: JasonW on January 12, 2012, 09:15:41 PM
Understand form tweet by Cllr Mike Priestley that sand will be cleared by the end of the week.
Work has had to wait for the wind to settle down before attempting the clear up.

A licence has been applied for to allow the sand to deposit the sand below the water line. This is a long term plan to tackle the issue, according to Council Press Release. The licence application is for 5 years from the Welsh Governement's Marine Consents Unit.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on January 12, 2012, 09:40:43 PM
jason the plan should be to get it back to how it was , before the prats ruined the once lovely west shore took a walk along there today what a mess ,get the steps back as they were when i was a lot younger, its a sorry state when  you have to apologise to a visitor as i do often.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on January 12, 2012, 10:08:50 PM
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Understand form tweet by Cllr Mike Priestley that sand will be cleared by the end of the week.
Work has had to wait for the wind to settle down before attempting the clear up.

A licence has been applied for to allow the sand to deposit the sand below the water line. This is a long term plan to tackle the issue, according to Council Press Release. The licence application is for 5 years from the Welsh Governement's Marine Consents Unit.
The problem is that this 'long term plan' will mean considerable 'long term expense'. Instead of just carting sand about, why not look at reconfiguring the sea defences to stop the sand building up so much in the wrong places?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on January 13, 2012, 11:09:04 AM
A couple of diggers and a few men there as we have just passed by. The sand is being moved to the grassy bit opposite the old Pen Morfa Site nearer the toll house ( seaward side of the road). Two men scratching their heads looking at the lake!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 13, 2012, 03:41:23 PM
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Funnily enough Hugo, there was a young man walking a dog just like yours when I was there yesterday.
Not sure if you fall into the "young man" category or not!

I wish I did Hollins!  I've seen a couple there before that had an Old English Sheepdog, he was a younger guy and his wife has an electric wheelchair. I've spoken to them and they seem a nice couple
If however you see an OAP on the beach with an Old English Sheepdog then that is probably me as I was there today but not on Wednesday.
I saw the sand being taken away in dumpers and watched to see where the sand was deposited and true to form it was stacked in large piles just above the high water mark.   A rather futile effort and the sand will be back over the wall on the next high wind.       ¢¢##
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 14, 2012, 03:28:00 PM
It was a beautiful sunny Winter's day on the West Shore today and it was lovely to see so many people taking advantage of the Winter sunshine.
The contractors haven't finished their work there by the look of it, but judging by what they are doing it won't be long before there is another clean up due and the Lake and White Rabbit pond still need the sand removing.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 14, 2012, 04:46:44 PM
I was looking through recent planning applications in the area and came across this so I thought that I'd post it as a matter of interest.

LIST OF CONSULTATIONS RECEIVED
FROM OTHER PLANNING AUTHORITIES
Report criteria: Received Date is between 28/11/2011 and 04/12/2011
Planning Authority: Welsh Government Received Date: 24/11/2011
Planning Authority Ref No: MCU11/64 Conwy Ref: ENQ/20291
Applicant: Conwy County Borough Council
Application Type: Marine Licence for Marine Works
Location: West Shore Beach and Promenade, Llandudno
Proposal: Clearance of Wind Blown Sand from Promenade at West Shore and Re-deposit onto the Adjacent Beach
Case Officer Dealing with Consultation: Ceri Thomas
Consultation Response by Date: 11/01/2012
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: martin on January 14, 2012, 07:21:53 PM
Hugo - Some nice photographs taken on what was a lovely day.  The close-up's of the sand mounds and then your "aerial" view shows just how much had blown from the beach onto the land, there must be close a hundred ton's there.  Am I being thick, but piled where it is at the top of the beach close to the wall, when the wind blows, (which it will most certainly do), will the sand not blow back onto the land?  Or, do they have a cunning plan to remove it before that happens? :Sisyphus: :Sisyphus:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: snowcap on January 14, 2012, 09:20:47 PM
perhaps they are hoping the wind will blow it in the opposite direction and get rid of it into the sea from whence it cometh
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on January 15, 2012, 01:59:32 AM
I dont know whether to laugh or cry.
When you have the next westerly gale the sand will be blown back over the wall.

A pity those responsible for this farce are not paying for it out of thier own pockets instead of loading it on to the local council tax payers.

 $angry$ $angry$ $angry$






Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 15, 2012, 03:36:27 PM
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Hugo - Some nice photographs taken on what was a lovely day.  The close-up's of the sand mounds and then your "aerial" view shows just how much had blown from the beach onto the land, there must be close a hundred ton's there.  Am I being thick, but piled where it is at the top of the beach close to the wall, when the wind blows, (which it will most certainly do), will the sand not blow back onto the land?  Or, do they have a cunning plan to remove it before that happens? :Sisyphus: :Sisyphus:

If you look again at the photo taken from the Orme you will be able to make out the high water mark by the line of the Seaweed left on the beach. The CCBC are not allowed to dump the sand below the high water mark without the permission of DEFRA.  (why don't they get the permission you may ask??? ) but what I noticed this time was that they are dumping the sand on the western side of the groyne and just making things worse.  Before then  the sand mainly affected the area around the White Rabbit Statue but now it's affecting everywhere.
Also look at the next photo and see how high the sand has built up on those steps. You can see 3 steps visible but those of a certain age like myself can remember more steps.  If my memory serves me right then there are 7 steps there, but the rest are buried below the sand!      :rage:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: martin on January 15, 2012, 03:44:43 PM
Hello Hugo, good to know they are spending our money wisely.  What you say about the shrinking number of steps means that matters can only get worse, more frequent sand storms sand blasting those on the front line and continuing expense for us the tax payer continually clearing it.   Anyway, you missed bit of a funny day on the forum, a newbie causing a few ruffled feathers, now on a final warning from Dave.  Never seen the board so busy.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on January 15, 2012, 10:34:49 PM
I can not understand why the residents of West Shore or Llandudno are putting up with this state of affairs.
This has been going on for several years now and is costing the council tax payers a fortune.
Is the council (town,county or whatever),(councilors or officers) too THICK to see that just dumping the sand over the wall will not cure the problem .
What is wrong with the people who are running LLandudno ?
The resort has so much going for it but needs a good shake up.........
Pier....Pavillion
          Landing berth for ships ,cruise tenders
Gardens,Flower beds.......Lack of care and attention.
Railway station.......Neglected.

Plus a lot more, I can not imagine the likes of Eastbourne or Bournemouth allowing this state of affairs going on year after year.

Come on Llandudno you have so much going for you.
 Why let a few lazy councillors bring you down to a has been resort.


 $angry$ $angry$ $angry$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on January 15, 2012, 10:45:10 PM
Well said, Mull, complacency and the old boys network work hand in hand to ensure there is no real progress with the town's problems.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on January 16, 2012, 07:45:30 AM
I think that it is as well to remember that the major finances are controlled by the County Council and the Assembly.  The Town council do not have any financial source for major projects.

It is all those so called "representatives of the people" at Bodlondeb and Cardiff who are PAID to deal with these matters who should be held to account.  Is it not about time that we had a "pleasant" revolt and marched on these people and places with pitchforks and shovels?   

It is amazing that when looking for comparisons one has to refer to English resorts, are the Welsh ones all like Llandudno?

 $walesflag$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on January 16, 2012, 08:29:21 AM
In terms of size, I don't think there in an equal to Llandudno in Wales. So, comparisons with Bournemouth are probably more accurate than say with Barmouth!

Who recalls the two photos I posted on here of the respective flower displays on the Prom in Llandudno and Eastbourne? That told the whole story as far as i was concerned about CCBC's attitude towards the town:

http://threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7.msg31097.html#msg31097 (http://threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7.msg31097.html#msg31097)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: martin on January 16, 2012, 09:44:54 AM
No, the only difference I spotted was in the second photo there was a man with a big yellow hosepipe, is that the difference? $good$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: martin on January 16, 2012, 10:02:42 AM
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In terms of size, I don't think there in an equal to Llandudno in Wales. So, comparisons with Bournemouth are probably more accurate than say with Barmouth!

Who recalls the two photos I posted on here of the respective flower displays on the Prom in Llandudno and Eastbourne? That told the whole story as far as i was concerned about CCBC's attitude towards the town:

http://threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7.msg31097.html#msg31097 (http://threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7.msg31097.html#msg31097)
On a more serious note, the comparison is shameful, we are certainly not going to win any prizes.  It's very odd why this area has fallen so far behind other towns.  Over recent years on my travels to seaside resorts and parks, even in deprived areas, the councils seems to manage to find the money to put on decent floral displays, so something has gone badly wrong here.  It's not just for visitors either, well maintained green areas with well thought out floral displays give residents a pride in their own area, and this is something that is worth it's weight in gold for all of the knock on effect it has in reducing petty vandalism and crime.  Unfortunately, in these cash strapped times it is probably too late to call on the council to do anything about it.  The die is well and truly cast. :(
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blodyn on January 16, 2012, 07:50:32 PM
It's been a beautiful day with wonderful views across West Shore and I managed to catch the sunset today - though I didn't get close enough to see the sandhills. 
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: martin on January 16, 2012, 07:55:54 PM
Fantastic photo $good$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blodyn on January 16, 2012, 07:57:59 PM
Thanks, Martin.  It was a fantastic sunset, so it was hard to go wrong. 
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: TheMedz on January 16, 2012, 08:26:55 PM
Amazing how the depth of colour can change from yours Blodyn to these in just a few minutes.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: martin on January 16, 2012, 08:36:27 PM
Particularly like the first one, and as you say, just a few minutes difference between shots.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on January 17, 2012, 01:07:59 AM
Well done......Nice photos.

Still a great place..............pity about the "rulers" !!!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blodyn on January 17, 2012, 09:51:33 AM
I do like your photos, The Medz.  As you say, they weren't taken long after mine, probably only about 10 - 15 minutes, looking at the times on my other photos (somehow one photo of a sunset is never enough!).  The sunrise this morning looked a very pretty pink, from what I could see of it, so it must have been lovely where you are.

It always amazes me how quickly the sun seems to move when it's near the horizon (OK, I know that it's not actually moving but you all know what I mean).  I suppose that most of the time it's hard to judge its movement without a reference point but it does appear to speed up when it's rising and setting. 
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on January 17, 2012, 10:06:57 AM
Quote
It always amazes me how quickly the sun seems to move when it's near the horizon (OK, I know that it's not actually moving but you all know what I mean).

It is, though, and actually rather fast, although you can't tell. The Earth (and rest of the planets) describe a helical path through space so we're never, ever in the same position as - say, a week ago.  That's why time travel as depicted n the moves is almost certainly a none-starter.  It's an interesting thought that just lying in bed you're travelling at around 30,000 mph...
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: TheMedz on January 17, 2012, 11:34:19 AM
Yes Blodyn the sunrise on the last few mornings has been incredible. These were taken earlier on today.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on January 17, 2012, 06:32:16 PM
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Quote
It always amazes me how quickly the sun seems to move when it's near the horizon (OK, I know that it's not actually moving but you all know what I mean).

It is, though, and actually rather fast, although you can't tell. The Earth (and rest of the planets) describe a helical path through space so we're never, ever in the same position as - say, a week ago.  That's why time travel as depicted n the moves is almost certainly a none-starter.  It's an interesting thought that just lying in bed you're travelling at around 30,000 mph...

Thank you for clarifying this Ian, 30,000mph while I'm in bed eh?
I had always put it down to 'room-spin', after indulging in the cocktails in the Fat Cat bar.  ZXZ
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blodyn on January 17, 2012, 10:34:31 PM
Well, thanks for that erudite comment, Ian.  So while we're whizzing round the sun, the sun's doing its own bit of whizzing about too?  It's amazing isn't it?  (It seems pretty amazing to me, at any rate.)

That sunset was certainly beautiful, The Medz.  Even the sea's pink!  Thanks for the lovely photos. 
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: snowcap on January 17, 2012, 10:50:12 PM
that was sun rise blodyn, but still a great sight
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blodyn on January 17, 2012, 10:52:35 PM
You're quite right, Snowcap, I did mean sunRISE.  All that thinking about whizzing around at 30,000 mph obviously addled my brain! 
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: snowcap on January 17, 2012, 10:56:28 PM
that is what happened to fester when he was looking at your frost photos, he,s seeing spots in front of his eyes
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blodyn on January 17, 2012, 10:58:58 PM
It's a dangerous business clinging to the earth, isn't it! 
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on January 18, 2012, 10:07:17 AM
We noticed this bench the other day, I wonder how long it will remain in this condition once the sand blasting starts!

(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i331/penrhynpigeons/DSCN0276.jpg)

We then saw this large load heading up Marine Drive

(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i331/penrhynpigeons/DSCN0277.jpg)

Delivering roof beams here

(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i331/penrhynpigeons/DSCN0288.jpg)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on January 18, 2012, 10:24:35 AM
What a mess this all is now :(

(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i331/penrhynpigeons/DSCN0274.jpg)

the sign shows the power of the sand blasting, also at the bottom the border of the blue paint shows how high the sand was when it was last painted!

(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i331/penrhynpigeons/DSCN0275.jpg)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 18, 2012, 02:14:28 PM
Great Photos ME and they do show what a mess the West Shore is in.  The boating lake is worse than I've ever seen it but it would be pointless to drain the lake now as there is more sand still to come over the wall.
The place where they have deposited the sand also  means that the sand on the road will be  getting nearer to the Toll House!
That building plot is next door to Frank Tyldesley's old house house and there is a lot of coastal erosion taking place at the end of the plot.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: martin on January 18, 2012, 02:42:06 PM
That poor rabbit, we were looking at it yesterday, what a state it's in, bits missing all over the place, almost seems a shame to leave it on display, better restored and put somewhere out of reach of the vandals.  Hugo, you say the plot for that house is subject to coastal erosion, not sure I would want to build there. :o
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 18, 2012, 03:11:00 PM
It might not go completely  in our lifetime Martin, but bit by bit it will.    Frank Tyldesley had a walkway going from his garden to the tower which apparently had a lift going down to the boathouse on the shore.
Nowaday there is no wooden walkway and the gap from the tower to the garden must be about 15 metres!
You probably know it anyway but when the Bishop's Palace was built in about 1294 the sea was a very long way from where the Palace was built, now that's what I call erosion
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on January 18, 2012, 05:36:58 PM
The Bishop's Palace has always fascinated me.

Obviously there has been no trace of it for several hundred years, but given that it was built at almost the same time as Conwy Castle I can't help wondering what style it was built in.

It won;t have been a grand mansion, as it was about 300 years before such things were built.
Its also unlikely to have been crenellated, (castle battlements) because it shouldn't have needed defending.
If it had been crenallated, there would have been an application to King Edward I, to be allowed to do so.

No record of such an application exists.

So, just what DID a palace for a Bishop look like in the 13th Century?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: hollins on January 18, 2012, 05:46:05 PM
Hi Fester, long time, no see! Hope you and Mrs Fester are well.
It would be great to know what the Bishop's Palace looked like.
The only one I have seen is at St David's in Pembrokeshire.
Here is a link with some pictures of what is left of that one.


http://www.sacred-destinations.com/wales/st-davids-bishops-palace-photos/ (http://www.sacred-destinations.com/wales/st-davids-bishops-palace-photos/)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on January 18, 2012, 05:50:56 PM
This is what it looked like in 1870:

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Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on January 18, 2012, 05:57:26 PM
Just rubble left in 1870 then, and no clue as to what it looked like in all its pomp.

The pictures from St David's suggest that it was like a monastery on a small scale.
Round windows can be seen, (very, very unlikely that glass would have featured) and a quite grand stone exterior staircase.

Thanks Dave and Hollins, this feeds my fascination.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on January 18, 2012, 06:44:23 PM
Part of it is still standing

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/481895 (http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/481895)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on January 18, 2012, 06:52:07 PM
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Part of it is still standing

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/481895 (http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/481895)

Err, yeah.... thats really illuminating!  :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on January 18, 2012, 07:19:09 PM
Ask Dr Who for a trip back in time to see it  ;D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 18, 2012, 09:50:04 PM
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Part of it is still standing

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/481895 (http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/481895)

There is less of it than that now as I think only part of one wall is left.  It wasn't big like the one in St David's and was destroyed by Owain Glyndwr in the early 1400's.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on January 19, 2012, 12:54:29 PM
I can report that at least 4 workmen, one digger and one dumper truck hard at work at West Shore this morning.

However, neither the small or large lake have yet been tackled.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on January 19, 2012, 03:12:22 PM
Well !!! I have now seen everything. One small digger working, one abandoned dumper truck and two men one with a brush, the other with a shovel, happily brushing and shovelling sand INTO THE BOATING LAKE!! :o
Words fail me.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on January 19, 2012, 03:57:03 PM
It's a farce of epic proportions!  &shake&
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on January 19, 2012, 04:20:55 PM
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Well !!! I have now seen everything. One small digger working, one abandoned dumper truck and two men one with a brush, the other with a shovel, happily brushing and shovelling sand INTO THE BOATING LAKE!! :o
Words fail me.

A dicky bird told me that, on the advice of the Llandudno Town Council, they are going to make a small beach at one end for the ducks and swans !      _))*
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on January 19, 2012, 04:24:15 PM
There is already a beach at one end with swans on it near the statue
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on January 19, 2012, 04:26:16 PM
Ah!  The've finished it then!     :P
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 19, 2012, 04:39:07 PM
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Well !!! I have now seen everything. One small digger working, one abandoned dumper truck and two men one with a brush, the other with a shovel, happily brushing and shovelling sand INTO THE BOATING LAKE!! :o
Words fail me.


I was enjoying a walk along the West Shore until I came to the area by the White Rabbit Statue and had to turn around because the sand was blowing back again.  A guy was brushing the sand off the steps ready for the dumper driver to take it away so I asked him when they were going to remove the sand from the lake but he said that some other workforce would be doing that part of the clean up.
I took more notice this time of the metal signpost that ME took a photo of and it's in a bad way with no paint on the shore side of the post
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 20, 2012, 01:25:30 PM
I had a quick walk on the West Shore this morning with our dog but didn't stay long as the rain was quite heavy but noticed that they have now started clearing the sand from the other side of the wall.
There was a large crane there but I think that it had something to do with Welsh Water rather than the sand problems.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on January 20, 2012, 01:28:01 PM
Yes, we saw that whilst coming off the Orme-- it seemed to be raising some kind of filter for inspection.
Too nasty to linger long anywhere though ! :(
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on January 20, 2012, 05:41:39 PM
checking how much sand has fallen down the cracks.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on January 21, 2012, 02:04:13 PM
We went back this morning, more sand painfully blasting back in  :roll: good winds for the wind surfers though!

(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i331/penrhynpigeons/DSCN0422.jpg)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blodyn on January 21, 2012, 08:25:29 PM
That's a great photo, ME. 

 &well&
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on January 21, 2012, 09:40:58 PM
 $thanx$. I took about 15 pics to get that! It was very windy and the sand was stinging :o
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blodyn on January 22, 2012, 04:42:48 PM
I'm sure DaveR would approve of such dedication!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: dwsi on January 22, 2012, 04:54:17 PM
Action plan to clear sand nuisance on Llandudno's West Shore - North Wales Weekly News - June 25 2009 http://bit.ly/xvFTH9 (http://bit.ly/xvFTH9)
looks like the councils latest response to the west shore sand problem is a repeat of 2½ years ago
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: martin on January 22, 2012, 05:00:21 PM
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Action plan to clear sand nuisance on Llandudno's West Shore - North Wales Weekly News - June 25 2009 http://bit.ly/xvFTH9 (http://bit.ly/xvFTH9)
looks like the councils latest response to the west shore sand problem is a repeat of 2½ years ago
If they were light bulbs they'd be 20 watts, what a shower. :(
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: dwsi on January 22, 2012, 06:07:55 PM
Sand dune stabilisation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopaedia http://bit.ly/y7LUZY (http://bit.ly/y7LUZY)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 23, 2012, 05:44:26 PM
They are still busy at it on West Shore today,  levelling the sand off and by my estimate the beach level has increased by a further foot. It was also  evident in parts that the sand has already started to blow back over the wall but that's not surprising.

There was some activity going on at the Penmorfa site and it appeared that they were bringing in some metal pylons so perhaps some work is due to commence shortly.   ???
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Llechwedd on January 24, 2012, 11:52:46 AM
How ridiculous.  Whose paying for this inanity..... oh yes, us :rage:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 24, 2012, 02:40:22 PM
Most of the metal pylons seem to have gone so perhaps they are not going to start work on the site soon.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Dwyforite on January 24, 2012, 02:44:46 PM
this guy should keep on tracking to the dole office its obvious he is just playing at levelling this sand and just getting his time in.i took my two dogs to that end of the beach a week ago,and was surprised to see a 3ton dumper driver drive to this spot and empty what was less than three barrow loads of sand.they must be on daywork.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 01, 2012, 04:06:22 PM
It was such a beautiful day today that I thought that I'd go on the West Shore for a walk with our dog. I put on all my windproof walking gear but found that it was so warm that I didn't need them.
First of all I walked to the White Rabbit Statue and had a look at the sandbank in the yachting lake and it's growing by the day!  Then I decided to walk along the cycle track to where the Black Rocks used to be before returning back to my car.
It was lovely to see so many people out in the sunshine making the most of it.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 01, 2012, 04:11:44 PM
My dog on the West Shore today  looking for the cycle track, he's sure there's one around here somewhere!   
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: hollins on February 01, 2012, 08:07:20 PM
Hugo, lovely photos again. I particularly like the fourth one down in the first set. The one with the grasses and all the different textures in the sand. It would make a good subject for a painting!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blodyn on February 01, 2012, 08:23:34 PM
I agree with Hollins, they're lovely photos Hugo.  I particularly like the top one in the second set, with your dog (Bruno?) against that brilliant blue sky. 

I won't take my bike anywhere that "cycle path".  I'd never get through there on narrow tyres and I'd rather carry the bike than get sand in the gears!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on February 04, 2012, 06:25:08 PM
I thought the recent scenes in West Shore were pretty bad, but the situation with sand in Rhyl is many times worse. There must be hundreds of tons of the stuff on the prom, I've never seen it so bad. All of the grass and planting in the Drift Park has been covered and killed by the sand.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on February 04, 2012, 06:37:36 PM
I don't remember all this sand years ago, is this more of this sea defence work, or were they more efficient in clearing it years ago?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on February 04, 2012, 08:56:36 PM
Heck and we think we've got problems !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on February 05, 2012, 12:45:17 AM
The prevailing winds have been from the west,for the last 6 weeks or so, I'm surprised that Rhyl promenade has such a dramatic sand build up.  More North-Westerly I would have thought,

But nevertheless, the weather has not been very extreme, and that is a very expensive pile to shift!


Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on February 05, 2012, 08:46:13 AM
Had some high winds where I am but all the sand is still on the beaches - and this is the Atlantic!    Z**
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on February 05, 2012, 10:40:39 AM
Might be all the new windmills blowing towards Rhyl.
Watch out Colwyn Bay, Rhos on sea and Llandudno.

 :D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on February 06, 2012, 09:29:48 AM
WATER bosses will invest £4m to stop sewage hitting a popular tourism beach and tackle toxic algae in another multi-million pound project.

West Shore beach in Llandudno lost its coveted Blue Flag status after heavy rainfall saw sewage overflows enter the sea – hitting water quality.

Now Dr Cymru Welsh Water will spend £4m to replace the storm water outfall.

But work will not start until after the summer season with the completion date set for spring 2013.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/02/06/4m-to-win-back-blue-flag-for-llandudno-beach-55578-30272353/ (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2012/02/06/4m-to-win-back-blue-flag-for-llandudno-beach-55578-30272353/)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on February 14, 2012, 10:45:31 PM
I love CCBC activity special for the half term on the West Shore,start work on the playarea and close it down,special.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 16, 2012, 02:55:46 PM
Sometimes when I walk along the West Shore I remember the times in my early teens when we swam there at high tide from the steps by the Toll House.  A gang of us from Cwm Place would go there and Trojan's Dad was often there when we went.
The water came up to about the 3rd step there as the water was deep but further along it didn't because of the changes in levels of the sea defence.   I cannot ever remember the sea coming over the wall (there is a secondary wall anyway) and there was no problem with sand in the area of the sea defence. In fact there must have been a lack of sand because I have a vague memory of undermining being mentioned.
Just out of interest I emailed the Environment and Technical Services at CCBC asking about the construction of the new Sea Defence and this is the reply I received:-

Dear Mr Hughes,
Three rock armour breakwaters were constructed in 1991 and additional beach material was imported at that time.  I attach a drawing showing the as-constructed works.

Computer modelling of existing beach movement at that time identified insufficient beach material entering this area to sustain the required levels. The breakwaters were constructed to naturally increase beach levels and additional material was imported to raise the flood defence levels and provide additional protection to the existing sea wall.

 
The scheme has been successful in improving flood defence levels at West Shore and the wind blown sand issue is evidence of healthy beach levels.  In recent years wind blown sand has been returned to the upper beach, however, we now have a licence in place that will allow us to deposit this sand lower down the beach below the mean high tide level.  This should decrease the mobility of the sand thereby reducing the amount of sand subsequently blown onto the promenade.

I hope this answers your query, please let me know if you need further information.

Regards
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on February 18, 2012, 12:02:09 PM
Does anybody know what they are doing with the playarea on the West Shore,plenty going on but not sure what.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Quiggs on February 18, 2012, 01:39:42 PM
I can recall bathing at West Shore, only to find myself surrounded by faeces, toilet paper and other unmentionables, from the sewer outfall. Now that is what you could call unsatisfactory water conditions. UUUUuuuuggggg.   Z@@ >:(
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 18, 2012, 05:06:07 PM
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I can recall bathing at West Shore, only to find myself surrounded by faeces, toilet paper and other unmentionables, from the sewer outfall. Now that is what you could call unsatisfactory water conditions. UUUUuuuuggggg.   Z@@ >:(

It was really awful Quiggs just as you've described and I remember those times well, especially after what happened to a friend of mine when he was swimming by the Toll House area.       :puke2:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SDQ on February 18, 2012, 05:21:06 PM
I didn't know about the sewage situation at West Shore until I worked for WWA and visited the old pumping station there. One of my first jobs was to fit a cover to the storm valve and that's when it was all explained to me. It was supposed to be used with an ebb tide so it took it out further but I remember more than one occasion where we had to open it immediately owing to the storage tanks being so full, that being the lesser of two evils otherwise the sewers would have backed up on Gloddaeth Avenue with far messier results!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 18, 2012, 07:49:19 PM
My old friend won't thank you very much for that SDQ and he didn't find it palatable at the time either!     I remember driving down Gloddaeth Avenue many years ago and a workman popped his head out of the sewer system. I recognised him as Wally Gartside aka Wally Fag on account of his compulsive smoking habit and true to form old Wally had a fag in his mouth.
I quickly put my foot down on the accelerator just in case Wally blew the system up.      :o
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on February 18, 2012, 09:49:38 PM
I remember sometime in the 1980s there used to be a mast with a yellow flashing light above the steps between the car park and opposite the Sandringham.
When taking the dog out for a run about midnight suddenly there was a loud bang the light started flashin and water started gushing out of a pipe for several minutes.
What was all that about ?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 25, 2012, 03:47:21 PM
I went for a walk on the West Shore with my dog today and found that the entrance where I normally go in was closed due to the construction of a footpath.
I bet it'll be covered in sand as soon as it's completed.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: dwsi on February 25, 2012, 05:02:17 PM
it's already covered, they are trying to find it  ;D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on February 25, 2012, 06:27:33 PM
 :laugh:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: snowcap on February 25, 2012, 06:50:20 PM
nice one dwsi
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on February 25, 2012, 06:56:59 PM
You could not make it up  !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: chemirocha on February 27, 2012, 09:08:43 AM
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Sometimes when I walk along the West Shore I remember the times in my early teens when we swam there at high tide from the steps by the Toll House.  A gang of us from Cwm Place would go there and Trojan's Dad was often there when we went.
The water came up to about the 3rd step there as the water was deep but further along it didn't because of the changes in levels of the sea defence.   I cannot ever remember the sea coming over the wall (there is a secondary wall anyway) and there was no problem with sand in the area of the sea defence. In fact there must have been a lack of sand because I have a vague memory of undermining being mentioned.
Just out of interest I emailed the Environment and Technical Services at CCBC asking about the construction of the new Sea Defence and this is the reply I received:-

Dear Mr Hughes,
Three rock armour breakwaters were constructed in 1991 and additional beach material was imported at that time.  I attach a drawing showing the as-constructed works.

Computer modelling of existing beach movement at that time identified insufficient beach material entering this area to sustain the required levels. The breakwaters were constructed to naturally increase beach levels and additional material was imported to raise the flood defence levels and provide additional protection to the existing sea wall.

 
The scheme has been successful in improving flood defence levels at West Shore and the wind blown sand issue is evidence of healthy beach levels.  In recent years wind blown sand has been returned to the upper beach, however, we now have a licence in place that will allow us to deposit this sand lower down the beach below the mean high tide level.  This should decrease the mobility of the sand thereby reducing the amount of sand subsequently blown onto the promenade.

I hope this answers your query, please let me know if you need further information.

Regards

It's a good good response I think from CCBC- thanks for posting it Hugo. The computer models they used in 91 would not have been able to predict how the build up of sand would change over 20 years. As ever, when dealing with the natural environment, nothing remains constant (you only have to look at how sand banks further out come and go over a period of a few years to see that) and it is obvious that something now needs to be done. Maybe just shifting the sand further out will work, it is at least a low cost option to try first.

To be honest, the grey cobbles on the West Shore beach, are terrible in terms of appearance and stopping access to the beach for holiday makers and I was hoping the higher sand levels would improve that side of things but I appreciate the difficulties it causes some visitors and those living next to the beach. However, I'd rather lose the beach altogether than have my house flooded so what do you do? It'll be interesting to see how the householders in the area are affected by the changes to house insurance with respect to flood zones that are about to hit us.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on February 28, 2012, 08:29:03 AM
Quote
The computer models they used in 91 would not have been able to predict how the build up of sand would change over 20 years.

That's true;  but I wonder if anyone checked to see the effect of building the breakwater in Rhos?  That's made a substantial difference to sand levels near the walls, completely burying the steps and hand rails down to what used to be the old beach level.

The West-facing aspect is probably more problematic, but UK seaside resorts have known the effect of building breakwaters for years.  I'll bet that - somewhere - CCBC would have been warned that the eventual sand build up would need management - and thus, money - to prevent it overwhelming the surrounding infrastructure. And it makes sense: the scheme was designed to increase the beach level, but it was unlikely to stop rising once it had reached the irritant level.

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 03, 2012, 03:17:43 PM
The footpath has now been tarmaced but is still closed to the public,  I wonder if it's closed until they sow any grass seeds in the adjacent sand.   My bet is on the sand covering the path before any grass grows on the edge of the path.
Meanwhile the boating lake has been drained and the Swans are just walking about aimlessly. I hope that this time the CCBC clear the sand out of the lake AND the White Rabbit Statue pool
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on March 04, 2012, 08:37:14 AM
Hope they don't leave the pond empty for ages like last time. The locals were supplying the swans with washing up bowls of drinking water.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 10, 2012, 01:11:06 PM
The Pond is still empty and there was no sign of any sand clearance in it when I drove past today.  As I was driving down Abbey Road there were about a dozen Billy Goats in the old Tennis Court.  There is a lot of sand in there now but at least the grass can grow through it.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blodyn on March 13, 2012, 10:53:56 PM
Nice to see the goats making themselves comfy!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on March 14, 2012, 08:25:04 AM
Trouble is they are back to wandering at night-- we are all securing our gates carefully and sweeping up the remains of our hedges each morning-- not to mention the little 'gifts' they leave.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 15, 2012, 04:26:56 PM
I had a walk on the West Shore today with my dog Marco and saw that they have started to clear the sand from the Yachting Pond.  The dumper trucks were now dumping the sand below the high water mark, but as it was nearly high tide anyway that wasn't really that far out!
I had a nice conversation with a couple who frequently walk their dogs on the West Shore and as they said everything from the pond is getting dumped on the beach. That's sand,sludge,stones, rocks and probably a few cans and plastic bottles so there's not much chance of getting a Blue Flag for the beach next year!
It looks like the Welsh Water have had a dig by the White Rabbit Statue and found some metal covers, I wonder if there are any more hidden beneath the encroaching sand?
I was told that the sand in the White Rabbit pond is not getting cleared though.   ???
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on March 18, 2012, 07:16:13 AM
Do we know when the big project of moving the statue is to take place now the pool is empty.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on March 24, 2012, 02:57:57 PM
The pool is rapidly filling up now, so I shouldn't count on the statue moving in the near future!
Swans are happy !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on March 28, 2012, 11:17:09 PM
On a positive note, the improvements to the kids playground at West Shore are really excellent.

Some novel attractions have been included, and its all been resurfaced in that safety rubber stuff that looks like tarmac.

The safety railing that surround it have been upgraded too.   &well&

I just wish there were more attractions at West Shore.

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on March 29, 2012, 11:15:08 AM
Very impressed by the state of it this morning-- lovely to see the beach steps revealed again.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 29, 2012, 07:51:57 PM
The Contractors do seem to have made a better job of the sand clearance this time and hopefully now they are dumping the sand below the high water mark the sand problems may improve to what they were this Winter.
Those steps do look nice Nemesis but they would be even better if the other 3 or 4 were showing too.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Jack on May 22, 2012, 09:48:47 PM
Tried to cycle along the cycle path from West Shore tonight, absolutely impossible  :rage: 
Sand is so deep that its very difficult to even walk and push a bike through!!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on May 23, 2012, 07:33:17 AM
The Welsh assembly needs to know that its cyclepath has failed big style along the West shore,Llandudno.JFS needs to back the improvement of the black rocks section of the path
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on May 23, 2012, 09:25:49 AM
Its a path along a beach. They will ALWAYS be sand on it.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Jack on May 23, 2012, 01:15:53 PM
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Its a path along a beach. They will ALWAYS be sand on it.

I completely agree, but therefore why waste money building the path in the first place and periodically clearing it?
Surely it should either have been done properly at the outset or not at all!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on May 23, 2012, 01:27:02 PM
Thing is, I don't see how you can keep it clear of sand. They've built various fences/sandbreaks but its pretty much impossible to keep the sand at bay. Having said that, it's only a problem for a short section of the path...could the cyclists not possibly dismount and walk that short distance? I walk along that path on a regular basis and I don't mind walking through the sand.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on May 23, 2012, 04:59:26 PM
Dave you don;t get the concept of cycling lol
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Jack on May 23, 2012, 05:12:55 PM
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Thing is, I don't see how you can keep it clear of sand. They've built various fences/sandbreaks but its pretty much impossible to keep the sand at bay. Having said that, it's only a problem for a short section of the path...could the cyclists not possibly dismount and walk that short distance? I walk along that path on a regular basis and I don't mind walking through the sand.

Again I agree yes you can get off and walk but call me pedantic but doesn't that make it a footpath?  Surely you should be able to cycle down a 'cycle-path'?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Paddy on May 23, 2012, 06:55:28 PM
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Its a path along a beach. They will ALWAYS be sand on it.

I completely agree, but therefore why waste money building the path in the first place and periodically clearing it?
Surely it should either have been done properly at the outset or not at all!

It's also very rocky in places. I gave up using it after my third puncture.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on May 24, 2012, 12:08:23 PM
That path is hard enough to walk on at times, let alone cycle on.  If I had a bike I wouldn't ride on that path anyway.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on May 24, 2012, 04:41:43 PM
I drove along the West Shore this afternoon,what a mess the place looks,the grass does not look as if it has been cut this year.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bri Roberts on May 24, 2012, 04:46:29 PM
Who is the CCBC Councillor?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on May 24, 2012, 05:22:14 PM
M. Lyon and J. Howarth
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on May 25, 2012, 07:23:50 AM
Part of the West Shore prom is under Mostyn and that means Jobi Hold and ?,the FOTWS should be up in arms but no concerns whatsoever.
Title: West shore toilets
Post by: born2run on June 06, 2012, 07:25:28 PM
Hi guys.

Was wondering if anyone knew who owns these cash crappers?  :laugh: Spend a lot of time in West Shore and have noticed they rake in a lot of cash  $angry$ Really annoys me the Council can't provide us with public toilets free of charge.
20p is not cheap to take a whizz especially if you've been on the  ZXZ lol

Another thing that annoys me is that everytime I finish, instead of slamming the door shut I close it very carefully and leave it on the latch so the next person can take a pee for free! I really can't recall how many times I've watched a jolly tourist notice it's on the latch, be more than pleased to relive himself for free then blatantly slam the door shut so nobody else can &shake&

Anyway - how would I go about complaining to the council about these toilets? I even noticed the other day that TWO of the toilets weren't working and were taking people's money and not letting them in - scandalous!

Thanks
Title: Re: West shore toilets
Post by: DaveR on June 06, 2012, 08:09:22 PM
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20p is not cheap to take a whizz especially if you've been on the  ZXZ lol
Surely if you've been out on the ZXZ then you can't be short of cash and can easily afford the 20p?  ;)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on June 06, 2012, 11:46:32 PM
I think that surely the over-arching issue here is...

The need to go to the toilet is the most basic human need, therefore toilets must be provided in sensible numbers, in all towns, FREE OF CHARGE!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on June 07, 2012, 12:18:05 PM
AND-- they should be kept cleaner than they are.
Personally I don't object to paying IF the facilities, including wash basins are kept clean and working.--but things are not often as they should be.
The public can be dirty beggars, but sometimes it is obvious that toilets etc haven't been cleaned in weeks.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on June 07, 2012, 12:25:40 PM
I often wonder what the rest of Europe think of our public loos?

What happened to the idea of shops and cafe's giving access to their facilities?

I know that in Portugal one an walk into any cafe or hotel and have a pee or whatever completely without charge. ???
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bri Roberts on June 07, 2012, 02:25:27 PM
I have been under the impression that many establishments in Llandudno receive £500 per annum from Llandudno Town Council for them to allow access for the general public to use their toilets.

Every qualifying location was given a notice to display in a prominent position but many of these notices have since faded.

I often wonder if there ought to be a list of all the funded establishments included on the Llandudno Town Council website plus an annual inspection of establishments by a representative from our Council to ensure they all still have a clearly visible notice on display.


.

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on June 07, 2012, 02:41:03 PM
Twenty pence to spend a penny, that's inflation for you!
The problem is though, if you have no change, what happens then?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bri Roberts on June 07, 2012, 03:42:05 PM
Perhaps you may be able to use the Lilly Restaurant with Rooms.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on June 07, 2012, 03:48:35 PM
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Twenty pence to spend a penny, that's inflation for you!
The problem is though, if you have no change, what happens then?

Tell the attendant (if there is one) that you have urgent medical need to empty your bladder.  It works!    ££$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on June 07, 2012, 04:37:35 PM
Or don't lock the door after you have left the WC.    $good$
Title: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bri Roberts on June 07, 2012, 04:57:46 PM
The City of York Council charged me 40p earlier this week to use one of their loos.

Had my missus wanted to go then she would have had to go next door and pay the attendant another 40p.

.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on June 07, 2012, 06:32:39 PM
I have a copy of the original Welsh Assembly Toilet Scheme.
 The local places are as below
The Habit
Tribells
KFC
The Pier
The Albert
Cafe Monet
The Victoria Centre
M&S
The Pier Arcade
The Town House
The Marine Hotel
The Nevill
The Queen Victoria
147 Club

These are the ones originally listed in Llandudno, there are more in Conwy and other places .
Now someone correct me, but aren't places like the Victoria centre's toilets public ones anyway? If they are getting the fee of £600 there is something wrong somewhere. ???
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bri Roberts on June 07, 2012, 06:38:33 PM
One can also say that about those on the Pier.

The Pier AND the Pier Arcade?

Does that mean the Pier Company qualify for £1,200 per annum?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on June 07, 2012, 07:24:28 PM
Sounds like it!
If you think about it, the pros and cons for a small business are difficult.
I wonder where the insurance side of it would be if these itinerant toilet users walked into your home or business and a) caused damage or b) helped themselves to your property, or  worse still injured themselves whilst using your facility?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bri Roberts on June 07, 2012, 07:33:51 PM
Probably the same as a customer especially as they will all be classed as visitors.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: born2run on June 07, 2012, 09:13:58 PM
Fester and I are in the Club 147 most weeks and I have certainly never seen a sign advertising their toilets to the public.
Note there is nothing in West Shore in there.

I often see signs in puns that say "Toilets are for customers only" utterly pointless and gives the pub a unwelcoming image for no reason. For one thing if you are going to the pub and you happen to need a pee as well, you are never going to wait at the bar, order a drink, leave your drink in the open and then go to the toilet! So when someone walks into a pub the bar person knows not whether they are about to be a customer or night - and by the time they come out the deed is done!

Pointless

I can see why bars/restaurants may want to put these signs up as it's not a nice thought to be cleaning up after people who aren't even customers but on the flip side, someone may walk in use the toilet and notice it's a nice place and either get a drink then or note it for future reference - although considering the state and atmosphere of most of Llandudno's venues the effect is likely to be the opposite L0L
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on June 07, 2012, 09:30:35 PM
Borntorun how could you say pointless,Cll Bertola went to london to see how the scheme worked on a jolly,he spent all his precious time looking at toilets in london so you must apologies to him about your pointless jibe.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on June 07, 2012, 10:04:05 PM
http://www.llandudno.gov.uk/community-toilet-scheme (http://www.llandudno.gov.uk/community-toilet-scheme)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on June 08, 2012, 11:10:17 AM
Yes-- that's the list I have got.
Just as an aside-- we sent an E-mail to the local council with regards to the filthy state of the toilets in Dollgellau.

Their reply?

"we are looking into it"

Rather them than me ! :o
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bri Roberts on June 16, 2012, 06:07:14 PM
Shouldn't the recipients be asked to display new signs that can be seen by visitors?

Here are photos of signs currently being displayed in three establishments receiving £600 per annum.

Incidentally, the legible sign is in Tribells.

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on July 05, 2012, 09:16:39 AM
The application to move the White Rabbit Statue to the middle of the Boating Lake cannot be completed as it must be determined by WG due to its Listed nature. However, Council Officer's conclusion was:

"The present position of the memorial sculpture allows relatively close access and
examination of the finer points of the sculpture. The relocation of the statue to the centre of
the lake will only allow more distant views of the sculpture. The relocation will also retain
the present steel protective cage, which introduces an unattractive, distracting and visual
dominant feature to the listed structure. The impact and setting of the Listed Building is
therefore likely to be adversely affected by its re-positioning. Alternative options to remodel
the setting and protective measures for the statue in its present position in a more sensitive
way should be considered and would enhance the presentation of the structure itself and
the locality. There would be further detrimental impact on the character of the Conservation
Area, if model boating enthusiasts are discouraged from using the existing facilities by the
positioning of the monument at the centre of the lake.  "

http://modgoveng.conwy.gov.uk/Published/C00000205/M00003344/AI00036257/ (http://modgoveng.conwy.gov.uk/Published/C00000205/M00003344/AI00036257/)$38903.doc.pdf
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bellringer on July 05, 2012, 09:31:51 AM
In other words, not in the middle of the lake? Is my interpretation correct?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on July 12, 2012, 07:59:46 PM
I saw a photo in the NWWN today of the White Rabbit statue and two young girls. The photo was taken in 1988 and you can see quite clearly that the grass behind the statue was level with the  path.
No one can argue that the subsequent damage to the area by the drifting sand  was not caused as a direct result of those new sea defences.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on July 13, 2012, 09:07:08 AM
During the 1960/70s I am sure that groynes formed part of the sea defences at West Shore.
Can anyone else remember them or with old age is my memory playing tricks.
I am sure they would have helped to keep the sand were it belongs ......on  the beach.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on July 13, 2012, 10:59:53 AM
Mull, I was a teenager in the 60's and spent a lot of time in the Summers swimming on the West Shore.    We would swim at high tide by the Toll House where the water came up a few of those steps. There were groynes there but they were only wooden ones like they had on the North shore.
The excuse for building the stone groynes was not that the water came over the wall but the fact that there was too little sand on the beach!    ??? ???   Apparently the steps were getting undermined.
The stone groynes are not the problem as you can see at Rhos on Sea but the fact that they joined the stone groynes to the shore and then artificially raised the level of the beach.
Llandudno UDC opted for the cheapest option and look what has happened.      :(
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on September 12, 2012, 09:55:35 PM
They are obviously not talking about the West Shore!     

Published date: 12 September 2012 |
Published by: Tom Parry-Jones and Diane Highton

ACTION is needed to halt the decline of Llandudno's beach.

 That is the view of community leaders, tourists and residents in the seaside resort as sand continues to drift away from West Shore, leaving the beach dishevelled in some areas.

 Donkey rides have already become a thing of the past and a popular sand castle competition has been cancelled this year.

 Llandudno town councillor John Ridler of West Shore said he wanted to see Llandudno beach returned to its former glory.

 He said: “They used to clean the beach every year. The weather has ruined the sand area, it's disgraceful.

“The donkey rides can't even get onto the sand. The beach is very important to Llandudno, it's one of the town's main attractions.”

Welsh Government regulations limit the extent of the cleanup operation to employing surf rake machines to clear the stones from the far end of the beach.
 For any materials to be removed from or added to the beach, a marine licence must be granted by the Welsh Government under the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009.

 Mayor of Llandudno, councillor Myra Wigzell said: "It's unfortunate, but the season is nearly over now. Let's hope we can get something done before the next one starts."

 The beach at English seaside resort town Morecambe had suffered from a similar situation to Llandudno in recent years, but a multi-million-pound regeneration project helped restore the Lancashire town's seafront to its former glory.

 Morecambe town councillor David Kerr said of the regeneration: "It was a long project in three stages; there was a lot of mess and confusion, but in the long term it's been worth it.

“All the sand had gone and it was just mudflats; residents were not happy with how the beach looked. We now have a more attractive promenade area, with a wildlife theme built into artwork on the prom.

“It's certainly a better image - it looks totally different and locals are now using the beach again.”

A spokeswoman for Conwy County Borough Council has said the licence has been applied for and is currently being processed by the Welsh Government.

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Kowalski on September 14, 2012, 11:10:54 PM
Quote
The weather has ruined the sand area, it's disgraceful

Quick give God a ring, tell him to sort the weather out!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on September 14, 2012, 11:28:50 PM
This is Killer Kowalski, (Circa 1957)

Even the weather wouldn't have argued with him!

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blodyn on October 20, 2012, 10:47:05 PM
I walked along West Shore today and the rabbit statue had gone - have I missed something (apart from the rabbit!)?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on October 21, 2012, 09:14:36 AM
It went some months ago to be repaired and hasn't been seen since.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on October 21, 2012, 01:57:46 PM
It has been put in storage with the Alice in Wonderland xmas lights,they have not been seen since they half demolished the Clarence hotel,funny really the town council could have done some good had they fully demolished it.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blodyn on October 21, 2012, 10:04:11 PM
Thanks, Nemesis.  I didn't realise it was so long since I'd been there. 

It was a lovely evening on West Shore yesterday, with quite a nice sunset.  I expect that it was at least as nice today, did anyone get a photo?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blodyn on November 16, 2012, 04:48:01 PM
Has anyone noticed much use being made of the new gym at West Shore?  I've come across and heard of similar things elsewhere and it seems a good idea, so I hope it gets used. 

The views from West Shore were lovely when I was there on Saturday and the swans looked very happy.  (More practice with my new camera!)

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on December 03, 2012, 11:38:47 PM
I checked out the gym equipment at West Shore this week, and it is rather good.

Some very good, sturdy equipment which, if used, could do people a lot of good.
One piece out of eight is already fenced off, and is broken.

Sadly though, as can be seen from the picture in the posting prior to mine, the gym has been sited on a holed rubber mat, but the whole thing is on top of grass!  The grass has grown through the holes and is quite high now.

Moreover, the grass disguises just how much disgusting dog-mess has been left around the equipment.
Many of the holes are full of it.   It makes me sick.
What sort of ignorant tw#t would let their dogs do their business in a public area like that?  $angry$ $angry$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on December 03, 2012, 11:41:45 PM
Such a shame it's like that! I've had a go on the outdoor gym at Rhos on Sea and it's very good!

I've noticed more dog stuff around, what happened to these dog wardens?  :rage:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on December 04, 2012, 10:42:24 AM
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I've noticed more dog stuff around, what happened to these dog wardens?  :rage:

Being replaced with private enterprise!     L0L
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on December 20, 2012, 07:59:15 PM
I'm pleased to see the Town Council have finally seen sense and adopted my suggestion from several years ago of replacing the White Rabbit statue with a more durable replica and putting the original in the Library.  $good$

http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2012/12/20/llandudno-s-white-rabbit-statue-will-be-replaced-by-a-copy-55243-32461078/ (http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2012/12/20/llandudno-s-white-rabbit-statue-will-be-replaced-by-a-copy-55243-32461078/)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 26, 2013, 05:09:44 PM
I had a walk with my dog on the West Shore today and noticed that the pond had been drained. As there was no water there all the Swans had flown away but just as I was leaving the area, a solitary Swan flew in and was walking around in the sand and mud.
I wonder what is happening there?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 16, 2013, 04:03:36 PM
I sent an e-mail to Cllr Priestly about two years ago telling him of the problems of sand on the West Shore and I suggested to him that it would be better when they were clearing the sand there if they took it to the North Shore where there was a severe lack of sand.
In fairness to him he said that he would consider that idea so when I read in the NWWN that 10,000 tons of sand was being taken from the West Shore and was being deposited on the North Shore I felt pleased that at long last someone was listening to a local person.
However when I had a walk on the West Shore with my dog this afternoon I was horrified to see that they have not learned anything.
The sand was being dumped on the shore above the high water mark and levelled by a JCB.  This sand would then dry out and become light ready to be blown back over the wall.       :rage:
There was also a young guy busy(ish) shovelling sand from the sea side of the defence wall and dumping it on top of the dune grass and thus exasperating the problem there.           :rage:
It's not exactly rocket science on how to remove sand and trying to stop it happening again but in future I don't think I'll bother and let them get on with it. The only good thing I can say about CCBC is at least they are keeping men in regular employment.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on March 17, 2013, 09:31:28 AM
No Hugo they have put some of the sand on the town beach,unfortunatley it was washed away by last weeks north winds,i think the stuff you saw is the top layer which has the grass on top,but you are right it will all go back to the same spot as on the cycle path.The town beach would be improved if they just scrapped the loose rocks and shingle off the bits of sand we have left,but for some reason this is beyond the town council and of course CCBC to manage,it could even be done by hand but there is no desire to look after Llandudno by either.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on March 17, 2013, 10:48:29 AM
Being fair, I think the area of sandy beach at North Shore has increased significantly:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 17, 2013, 03:07:58 PM
I trust there was no artistic license in your photo Dave, but just think how much more impressive it would look if they dumped all the sand from the West Shore onto the North Shore.
Why 10,000 tons, why not dump the lot or have they had to apply to DEFRA for just 10,00 tons?     
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on March 17, 2013, 03:41:15 PM
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I trust there was no artistic license in your photo Dave, but just think how much more impressive it would look if they dumped all the sand from the West Shore onto the North Shore.
Why 10,000 tons, why not dump the lot or have they had to apply to DEFRA for just 10,00 tons?   
No, that photo is straight out of the camera, it does look much better. I think the 10000 tons is a trial and they import more if its a success.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 17, 2013, 05:08:28 PM
If they have already transferred 10,000 tons of sand  to the North Shore,  I still cannot understand why they didn't put the rest of the blown sand below the high water mark on the West Shore, it's just ridiculous.
It's ironic that the present sea defence at the West Shore was created because there was a lack of sand there and it was undermining the steps or so the consultants or boffins said.
Their stupidity has created the present sand problem that is gradually getting worse.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blongb on March 21, 2013, 11:15:50 PM
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Being fair, I think the area of sandy beach at North Shore has increased significantly:

Sorry to disappoint you Dave but every last grain of sand that was put on the North Shore was removed by the next high tide. It was piled up to within 2 steps of the promenade. Now there are 14 steps exposed and to be honest I haven't seen the beach that low for years. What has been exposed now is a shingly mess, so we are worse off now than before they started. I posted on the 11th of March  Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?   « Reply #3538 on: 11-03-2013, 20:41:44  (http://Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?   « Reply #3538 on: 11-03-2013, 20:41:44)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: andyCYD on April 16, 2013, 12:06:16 PM
Quite a sand storm at West Shore today.

(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p496/andybz/West%20Shore%20Sand%20Storm/DSC_0182_zps2c81a7a1.jpg) (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/andybz/media/West%20Shore%20Sand%20Storm/DSC_0182_zps2c81a7a1.jpg.html)

(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p496/andybz/West%20Shore%20Sand%20Storm/DSC_0184_zps57790ed7.jpg) (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/andybz/media/West%20Shore%20Sand%20Storm/DSC_0184_zps57790ed7.jpg.html)

(http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p496/andybz/West%20Shore%20Sand%20Storm/DSC_0185_zpscd578db7.jpg) (http://s1152.photobucket.com/user/andybz/media/West%20Shore%20Sand%20Storm/DSC_0185_zpscd578db7.jpg.html)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on April 16, 2013, 12:54:43 PM
Looks like the sand is slowly making its own way to North Shore!  :laugh:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on April 16, 2013, 01:17:37 PM
Just needs a conveyor belt from West to North!  :laugh:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on April 16, 2013, 05:15:47 PM
We went to Cafe Dewi for lunch today and as we left I had my driver's window open.  As we entered Abbey Road I got a faceful of sand being blown from the shore.  It you want anything sand blasted just leave it down there for an hour or so! 
 *tumble*
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on April 16, 2013, 07:56:47 PM
Very high and rough sea there at about 3.15 when we were there. One lonely chap on a windsurfer was having a high old time, spent 1/2 his time climbing back on !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: andyCYD on April 16, 2013, 08:23:16 PM
Windsurfer was me. Typical, people only notice when I am struggling. It was actually lack of wind causing the problems at 3:15. Where were you between 2 and 3? I was flying and hardly fell in.

Actually, the sea was not very rough at all when you were in it. May have looked different from where you were.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on April 17, 2013, 03:22:23 PM
Hi andy CYD-- you have my greatest admiration--- I should have spent the whole afternoon floundering about. It was a pleasure to watch you. :)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on April 18, 2013, 11:09:21 AM
Quite a sanddune on Gt Ormes Rd this morning.
Hope there is a pic-- had to get a new printer and things aren't quite the same !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on April 18, 2013, 11:23:18 AM
Wow, it was nowhere near as bad when I walked past yesterday evening.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on April 18, 2013, 01:00:26 PM
I had intended to walk to the front at West Shore, but upon seeing that little lot I decided it would be alot worse and my shoes were full enough! The dog thought it was ace and had a good old dig !!!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on April 18, 2013, 04:42:08 PM
I was walking the dog on the West Shore today but not for long as we were sandblasted and that was at the car park end of the Promenade.
The situation with the sand hasn't been helped with the removal of grass from by the White Rabbit Statue because the sand there is dry and is exposed now.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on April 24, 2013, 10:47:17 AM
Whilst heading for Asda this morning, as I drove through the sand dune on Gt Ormes Rd ( which is still exactly as big as it was last week) I noticed a huge wagon full of rolls of turf parked up at the end of Abbey Road where the white rabbit used to be. Perhaps we are covering up the mess???????
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on April 24, 2013, 11:10:52 AM
The turf will be the foundation for the new layers of sand!  :twoface:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on April 24, 2013, 11:26:35 AM
Surely there must be a serious drainage problem building up here with all the sand going down the grids.
Or are they waiting for the next heavy rainstorm and hope that will clear it all.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on April 24, 2013, 01:06:07 PM
My OH has just returned that way and has seen men with shovels and a digger attacking the 'dune'. As for drainage I hope the sand hasn't got into the sewage system there or we shall all be in  a mess!! :o
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on April 25, 2013, 01:10:14 PM
Penmorfa site seems to have been taken over by Costain.

Elsewhere the new turf is almost finished.

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on April 25, 2013, 01:15:32 PM
Looks better, but how long before all that turf is buried under sand?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on April 25, 2013, 01:46:56 PM
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The turf will be the foundation for the new layers of sand!  :twoface:

  ;D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ajllandudno on April 25, 2013, 11:53:52 PM
I'm told its costing £1,700 a day to sort the sand out... Surely if you live in a seaside resort/town your going to come across some sand.. To live on a beach front I'm afraid your going to get sand.. I actually can believe that SAND makes the front page of the local newspaper.. I'm sure people of llandudno would rather this money be spent elsewhere..
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on April 26, 2013, 07:21:27 AM
Yes but years ago they did not have all that sand blowing in there like they have now.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on April 26, 2013, 08:34:19 AM
'fraid that messing with nature has its consequences.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on April 26, 2013, 10:52:43 AM
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'fraid that messing with nature has its consequences.

Yes, and still CCBC have not learnt from their mistake.     :(
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 07, 2014, 07:20:36 PM
I enjoyed a walk with my dog on the windy West Shore today.    Following the recent storms there was a lot of debris on the promenade by the sea wall including large rocks and a very large tree trunk.
That tree trunk would keep a wood burner going for the rest of the Winter.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on January 08, 2014, 02:41:29 AM
I saw the tree trunk the other day,  however when Dave R and I were down at West Shore yesterday, there was an ENTIRE STAIRCASE being tossed about in the waves, as it if were a twig.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on January 08, 2014, 07:30:46 AM
Quote
there was an ENTIRE STAIRCASE being tossed about in the waves, as it if were a twig.

Given the wind direction over the past month, that's probably come up from the South - what you might call a stairway to Devon...

 WWW
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on January 08, 2014, 07:51:02 AM
 _))* L0L
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 19, 2014, 04:18:01 PM
I had a walk in the Winter sunshine along the West Shore today and it was nice to see so many people out enjoying themselves in the break from the atrocious weather we have been having,
There was no wind at all and the Yachting Lake had been emptied and a solitary Swan was sitting on the concrete floor of the lake :(
There was a lot of water flowing through the lake from the Penmorfa Adit which is to be expected from the amount of rain we have been having recently,
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 28, 2014, 03:32:23 PM
There's no danger of anyone breaking the rules, not even the Swans.     :)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on March 28, 2014, 03:52:41 PM
At least its not full of stones.Not quite sure why the yatch pool has no water and the paddling pool has tonnes of stones and no water but im sure they have a logical storey for it.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on March 28, 2014, 04:33:24 PM
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There's no danger of anyone breaking the rules, not even the Swans.     :)

That looks like an old Aberconwy Borough Council sign!  That packed up in 1996!    :D :D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on March 29, 2014, 10:08:31 AM
Come on Yorkie you can not have it all ways.

They have saved money by not renewing the logo.    :laugh:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on March 29, 2014, 11:26:14 AM
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They have saved money by not renewing the logo.    :laugh:

Used it to subsidise Venue Cymru, and other stupid enterprises!   :D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on December 24, 2014, 09:26:08 AM
Had a walk along the path from West Shore to Conwy last week, the sand has completely blocked the cycle path in the sand dunes by the breakwater, it must be 5 foot deep in places. Why bother clearing it when it will just get blocked again quickly?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on December 24, 2014, 02:18:58 PM
Remembered I had taken this photo of the cycle path at West Shore. The path is to the left of the wooden fence and is completely buried under many feet of sand:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on December 24, 2014, 02:38:36 PM
Good photos Dave and they say it all.   Anyone living in Llandudno unless, of course they are a Councillor, would have known about the prevailing conditions there before suggesting that cycle track.
As for their efforts by the Toll house, my comments are unprintable in this festive period.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on December 24, 2014, 08:04:59 PM
Sand as far as Church Walks this week !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: pebbles on January 16, 2015, 03:57:43 AM
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Sand as far as Church Walks this week !

We wont have to worry about sand for much longer.... as they're going back to 1991/92 and dumping a ton more rocks on the beach, with ye olde "sea defence" excuse again (yes, i know i know we need sea defences... but the dumping of rocks with difficult access to any decent "beach" is never the answer imho)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-30813523 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-30813523)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on January 16, 2015, 07:01:20 AM
CCBC do one.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 28, 2015, 03:30:30 PM
I was driving along the West Shore today about noon and could see the sand being blown over the sea wall by the force of today's wind.  I didn't bother to get out of the car and drove off before the car got sandblasted.
As we drove home along the Promenade we could see some spectacular waves hitting the Little Orme and it wasn't high tide either.  Hope that Dave has been braver than me and ventured out to take some photos of the stormy weather.    ;D
Title: Re: West Shore Issue
Post by: norman08 on January 28, 2015, 04:34:06 PM
Didn,t you notice me on the prom ,dog and one daft owner 😂 walked along the west shore cycle path yesterday it's got more sand than the Sahara , did you notice all the sand stacked up by the boating lake .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 28, 2015, 10:44:59 PM
Sorry but I didn't see you Norman, I came up Gloddaeth Avenue and turned right and went past the boating lake and did notice the sand piled up there.  I turned around by the Toll House and drove past the sand hills in Abbey Road on my way back. 
If those idiots on the CCBC are going to raise the level of the beach again, then the sand problem might get much worse.
I did notice that no work is in progress on the site of the old Penmorfa Hotel which isn't surprising with Anwyl's record there

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on January 29, 2015, 08:38:31 AM
Just have a niggling feeling that Anwyl are using Pen Morfa as a builders yard.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 29, 2015, 10:17:04 AM
It looked like you are right Nemesis,  Anwyl renewed their planning application giving the grounds that they had laid a pipe into the site and the application was granted.
I wonder if anyone knows what the pipe was for and when it was laid?     
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Meleri on January 29, 2015, 02:22:28 PM
Mr M and I were enjoying a stroll near the yachting pond and spotted two workmen pouring something into the water a few days ago. After they had gone we went over and there was a considerable amount of lurid green liquid spreading into the water at the end where the sand has formed a drift to the wall. Has anyone an idea of what it could have been?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on January 29, 2015, 04:07:03 PM
Creme de Menthe disinfectant.    ZXZ
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Meleri on January 29, 2015, 04:21:41 PM
Definitely shaken not stirred Yorkie   $good$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Quiggs on January 30, 2015, 11:57:40 AM
Could be 'Chipco Green' a Fungicide. 
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on January 30, 2015, 01:57:33 PM
Hope it is safe for the Wildlife whatever it is.. I know some of it can be a pest, i.e. the gulls, but we don't want them dying all over the place.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Meleri on January 30, 2015, 03:51:44 PM
I had been thinking the very same thing Nemesis. I'd hate to think it would harm the three beautiful swans and ducks we saw.
I've just Googled Chipco Green, Quiggs and it's a turf disease treatment, so hope it wasn't that they were tipping. :(
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on January 30, 2015, 08:07:42 PM
Whoever saw this could always ask the council ????????????????
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Quiggs on January 30, 2015, 08:56:24 PM
It could of course just be a dye, to trace the waters journey, maybe for leaks.   &shake&
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 03, 2015, 04:58:58 PM
It was a lovely Winter's day on the West Shore today, sunny but not  windy and a thin layer of ice was on the boating lake.       The sand dunes are getting higher in the lake and on the promenade too.     I wonder what it will be like when they increase the height of the beach again!   &shake&
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on February 03, 2015, 05:03:16 PM
Had a beer in the winter Sun, outside The Lilly today Hugo......  it was indeed a lovely day.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on February 03, 2015, 06:29:07 PM
alright for some lol
Title: Re: West Shore Is
Post by: norman08 on February 03, 2015, 06:50:01 PM
Did you see the One man in his dumper machine shifting the sand back on the beach ,yes one man ,even he thought it was stupid he,lol be in work for months 😄 missed you again bri was there between 1/2.30 not seen the boating lake that frozen for a while .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 03, 2015, 10:29:30 PM
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Had a beer in the winter Sun, outside The Lilly today Hugo......  it was indeed a lovely day.

It was a cracking day Fester, hope that you enjoyed your drink.     Z**
Title: Re: West Shore Is
Post by: Hugo on February 03, 2015, 10:33:03 PM
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Did you see the One man in his dumper machine shifting the sand back on the beach ,yes one man ,even he thought it was stupid he,lol be in work for months 😄 missed you again bri was there between 1/2.30 not seen the boating lake that frozen for a while .

I didn't notice him Norman,  did you notice if he was dumping the sand above or below the high water mark?     I must have just missed you as I was there at 1.30 pm  but didn't stay long as I was going to the Archives
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on February 04, 2015, 12:42:46 PM
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alright for some lol

I can't work if the Pier won't open mate!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Mr Tunnock on February 04, 2015, 04:40:02 PM
Hope it get sorted soon for you Fester.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on February 04, 2015, 05:56:28 PM
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Hope it get sorted soon for you Fester.

Not too bothered about me Mr Tunnock, (you devilishly sticky, tasty little wafer you!), too cold and boring for me to be working, but some people NEED to work, in order to pay their rent which is still required.
But also, lots of disappointed visitors over the weekend, who may not return!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on February 05, 2015, 08:53:49 AM
Isn't there any way that "Elf and Safety" can clamp down on the Grand and make them do something before people start suing for loss of earnings?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on February 08, 2015, 08:20:33 PM
Hi Nemesis,  No... H&E were contacted, but they have nothing to enforce, unless any current work was happening on site.

It now falls to CCBC Building Control dept to compile a report.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on February 09, 2015, 08:50:33 AM
The pier actually looked to be open at 10.00am yesterday when we walked past the end near the wishing well  with the dog.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on February 09, 2015, 11:17:34 PM
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The pier actually looked to be open at 10.00am yesterday when we walked past the end near the wishing well  with the dog.

It is, courtesy of a vast amount of fencing, which has sealed off the 'debris field' around The Grand.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: llandudnotrust on February 11, 2015, 06:48:00 PM
Anyway back to West Shore !!!! work begins soon on beach replenishment
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 11, 2015, 06:57:01 PM
What damage can we expect next then?   I was on the West Shore today and the sand problem is worse than ever and afterwards drove down Abbey Road where there is also sand piling up.        :rage:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: majormellons on February 11, 2015, 09:50:37 PM
I do find it rather odd when people complain about sand.

When I moved to West Shore, by the beach, with a prevailing SW breeze, I assumed, and expected, sand to be blown about a bit.
I wasn't wrong.

What do people expect?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on February 11, 2015, 10:22:26 PM
Majormelons before the idiots put them two rock things there we didn,t have a sand problem ,the Sandhills where under the golf course not in the middle of the beach ,they were told but as usual took no notice .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on February 12, 2015, 08:56:33 AM
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What damage can we expect next then?   I was on the West Shore today and the sand problem is worse than ever and afterwards drove down Abbey Road where there is also sand piling up.        :rage:

There seems to be more this year on the streets away from  the beach and sea front.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 12, 2015, 12:42:32 PM
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I do find it rather odd when people complain about sand.

When I moved to West Shore, by the beach, with a prevailing SW breeze, I assumed, and expected, sand to be blown about a bit.
I wasn't wrong.

What do people expect?

I presume from your lack of knowledge of the area that you are not from Llandudno.   The sea defence at Wesr Shore  was completed in 1952 and to the best of my knowledge and belief the sea never came over the 2885 foot long defence and neither did the sand.   The sea defence built in the 1980's was build because " it was being undermined"  in other words too little sand to protect the steps.
The Council in their wisdom decided to increase the level of the beach by 10 foot or more and in the 1980's or thereabouts the problems started.
The problems at the West Shore are entirely man made, not by the powers of nature which you seem to suggest and was constructed as the cheapest option available and didn't take into account the conditions which should have been obvious to anyone living in the town.
Just in case you have any lingering doubt as to who is correct, here is a photo of the White Rabbit statue before the 1980's
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on February 12, 2015, 01:23:06 PM
When I came on holiday to Llandudno in the Sixties, early Seventies the West Shore looked just like Hugo's picture, I never saw sand blown all over the place, all looked perfect!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Gwynant on February 12, 2015, 04:58:21 PM
        Hugo is absolutely correct, I can remember diving off the steps into deep water (at high tide!) in the 50s on the West Shore after the new sea defences were built, and there were at least 7 or more big steps  each of which had an 18" drop from one to the other from the seawall down to the sandy beach and I also seem to remember wooden groynes as well.             
        There was no sand blown over the wall on to the greens and the surrounding areas in those days as the beach was considerably lower than the present. It is a fairly recent problem which started after the beach level was artificially elevated and entirely created by that decision, and it has visibly worsened in the last few years.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on February 12, 2015, 05:21:19 PM
The stones where put on the West Shore so the tide would run up the stones,problem is nobody bothered to think the sand might do the same thing.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 12, 2015, 06:27:26 PM
I was on the West Shore again today and took these photos and must say that it gives me no pleasure in showing them just to prove my point.
In the photos there is no White Rabbit.  no Penmorfa Hotel  but just piles of sand in the boating lake, in the White Rabbit pond and where the lawned area used to be.   Don't forget either that the lawned area was much worse a year or two ago but most of the sand was removed so that they could gain access to a metal opening that was buried under about 3 feet of sand.
This man made problem has been made worse over the years because the idiots from CCBC allowed the sand to be put back over the wall but above the high water mark.   This meant that the accumulated sand was dry and therefore came back over the wall much easier than before.
All these idiots needed to do was get a licence from DEFRA and they could have dumped it below the high water mark but they didn't for some unknown reason.
Sometimes man's intervention with nature can help and I'm old enough to remember Rhos on Sea often flooding  years ago, but when they build the breakwater in Rhos it broke the force of the waves and the flooding problem that Rhos once had has been greatly reduced.
With the Rhos breakwater though it wasn't connected to the shore unlike the one at West Shore.
Like others on the forum I am old enough to remember how it once was and have nice memories of that time.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on February 12, 2015, 07:35:07 PM
Ok what time were you there ,I was there about one , that grass area was redone at a cost of over £ 30  thousand and as you can see it's worse than it was . Even the lads moving the sand last week agreed it will be back over soon ,you couldn't,t make it up with this stupid council .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 12, 2015, 07:54:22 PM
I was there about 3.30pm  after I went to the Archives but I did drive down the Promenade in case you were there.    That's a complete waste of £30K    someone is making a good living out of clearing the sand.   It'll be the boating lake next then the cycle track and then back to the promenade again as the Winter storms haven't finished yet.

By the way Norman where are the lads dumping the sand now?    Is it above or below the high water mark?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: white rabbit on February 12, 2015, 08:11:09 PM
Hugo - I love that old photo of West Shore - just how I remember it :)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on February 12, 2015, 08:43:07 PM
Well said Hugo.
My parents returned to Llandudno in the eary 1970s and went to live close to West Shore after my father retired.
At that time I had ayoung family and was living in Bristol and can remember many happy holidays at West Shore.
I also remember them building the sea defenses in the early 1950s and what a good job they made of it. There was plenty of depth on the seaward side and no problem with sand.
I can still remember my father forecasting what would happen if they went ahead. He was not the only one who could see what was coming but, hey, what do the locals know.
All very sad, and man made.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on February 12, 2015, 09:44:49 PM
They were spreading the sand on the beach by the toll gate , and below that pump station ,just like the other times above the water mark ,the guy I was talking to he said someone else would be clearing the cycle path ,(that will take months to clear ) ,can,t wait to see the mess they make when they dump the rocks on that beach .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 12, 2015, 10:00:23 PM
Thanks Norman, nothing surprises me about the stupid antics of CCBC.   I told Cllr Priestly about that inane practise a few years ago but hey ho nothing changes.
By the way, can you remember playing in those WWII  lookout places that were on the sandhills just past where the old water board property is now?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: majormellons on February 12, 2015, 11:35:57 PM
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I do find it rather odd when people complain about sand.

When I moved to West Shore, by the beach, with a prevailing SW breeze, I assumed, and expected, sand to be blown about a bit.
I wasn't wrong.

What do people expect?

I presume from your lack of knowledge of the area that you are not from Llandudno.   The sea defence at Wesr Shore  was completed in 1952 and to the best of my knowledge and belief the sea never came over the 2885 foot long defence and neither did the sand.   The sea defence built in the 1980's was build because " it was being undermined"  in other words too little sand to protect the steps.
The Council in their wisdom decided to increase the level of the beach by 10 foot or more and in the 1980's or thereabouts the problems started.
The problems at the West Shore are entirely man made, not by the powers of nature which you seem to suggest and was constructed as the cheapest option available and didn't take into account the conditions which should have been obvious to anyone living in the town.
Just in case you have any lingering doubt as to who is correct, here is a photo of the White Rabbit statue before the 1980's

Lived here all my life, I'm just not as old as some on here, so no need to get all defensive!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 13, 2015, 08:27:00 AM
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I do find it rather odd when people complain about sand.

When I moved to West Shore, by the beach, with a prevailing SW breeze, I assumed, and expected, sand to be blown about a bit.
I wasn't wrong.

What do people expect?

I presume from your lack of knowledge of the area that you are not from Llandudno.   The sea defence at Wesr Shore  was completed in 1952 and to the best of my knowledge and belief the sea never came over the 2885 foot long defence and neither did the sand.   The sea defence built in the 1980's was build because " it was being undermined"  in other words too little sand to protect the steps.
The Council in their wisdom decided to increase the level of the beach by 10 foot or more and in the 1980's or thereabouts the problems started.
The problems at the West Shore are entirely man made, not by the powers of nature which you seem to suggest and was constructed as the cheapest option available and didn't take into account the conditions which should have been obvious to anyone living in the town.
Just in case you have any lingering doubt as to who is correct, here is a photo of the White Rabbit statue before the 1980's

Lived here all my life, I'm just not as old as some on here, so no need to get all defensive!

Well that does explain it then, you must be too young to remember how it was before the sea defences of the 1980's were put there.     But it doesn't explain why you can't grasp what has happened since.   
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: majormellons on February 13, 2015, 11:06:12 AM
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I do find it rather odd when people complain about sand.

When I moved to West Shore, by the beach, with a prevailing SW breeze, I assumed, and expected, sand to be blown about a bit.
I wasn't wrong.

What do people expect?

I presume from your lack of knowledge of the area that you are not from Llandudno.   The sea defence at Wesr Shore  was completed in 1952 and to the best of my knowledge and belief the sea never came over the 2885 foot long defence and neither did the sand.   The sea defence built in the 1980's was build because " it was being undermined"  in other words too little sand to protect the steps.
The Council in their wisdom decided to increase the level of the beach by 10 foot or more and in the 1980's or thereabouts the problems started.
The problems at the West Shore are entirely man made, not by the powers of nature which you seem to suggest and was constructed as the cheapest option available and didn't take into account the conditions which should have been obvious to anyone living in the town.
Just in case you have any lingering doubt as to who is correct, here is a photo of the White Rabbit statue before the 1980's

Lived here all my life, I'm just not as old as some on here, so no need to get all defensive!

Well that does explain it then, you must be too young to remember how it was before the sea defences of the 1980's were put there.     But it doesn't explain why you can't grasp what has happened since.   

I do have the mental capacity to grasp, thank you.
As you have mentioned, I am too young, and only moved to West Shore in 2001, so I have only known the current situation.

I bow to your far superior age, and consider my self a better person, for being able to listen to your wealth of knowledge.

Whatever works were done on West Shore, whether ill conceived or not, were, I'm sure, done with the best intentions.
If you don't like the outcome, you have the freedom to move to the quaint village of Coton in the Elms (The Ordnance Survey has calculated it is the furthest point from the sea in all the UK).

I still think that if people don't like sand, don't live by a beach.

Queue the next lecture.....
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on February 13, 2015, 11:51:24 AM
I,m sure your mam must have taken you to the west shore before the council messed it up ,WE want the sand on the beach not over the wall and the roads , you must be old enough to remember how good it was as my lads are younger than you and remember it .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Cambrian on February 13, 2015, 07:23:04 PM
Just an aside.  Most contributors refer to sand dunes at West Shore.  I wonder how these came to be there if not by wind-blown sand. The dunes clearly predate any work by the "stupid council" whether in the 1980s or later.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 13, 2015, 08:08:49 PM
I remember the sand dunes reaching as far as the car park but they were removed when the houses and cafe were built.    Even I am not old enough to remember them any nearer the Orme although they may have been.
I do remember the sea defence in the 1950's though and also the beach.  The beach wasn't the best anyway as it was mainly hard compact wet sand due to the fact that the tide covered it twice a day.
The sea currents there flow quickly from the direction of the Orme and that may account for sand being deposited and blown onto where the sand dunes are but it's only a guess.    It's obvious that the dunes were formed by the prevailing westerly winds as you can see from the infamous cycle path
That's a hat trick or three own goals for the CCBC    the 1980's West Shore sea defence,   the north shore sea defence and the cycle path.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: majormellons on February 14, 2015, 01:05:51 AM
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I,m sure your mam must have taken you to the west shore before the council messed it up ,WE want the sand on the beach not over the wall and the roads , you must be old enough to remember how good it was as my lads are younger than you and remember it .

To be honest, as a kid, I never took much interest in the Aeolian processes and coastal management...I made sand castles and paddled.

I once caught crabs, but that's another story.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on February 14, 2015, 08:56:07 AM
Quote
Most contributors refer to sand dunes at West Shore.  I wonder how these came to be there if not by wind-blown sand. The dunes clearly predate any work by the "stupid council" whether in the 1980s or later.

That's a fair point but CCBC are their own worst enemies. They never - IME - explain their reasoning to anyone, hold far too many meetings in secret and treat the electorate, frankly, as ineducable and rather stupid children. We've offered on here to provide a topic for any member of CCBC and make them Moderators of that topic, so they could come on and inform people about why they're doing things in a safe environment but no; evidently they're terrified of opening up and using reasoned debate to explain their thinking.

Most people are not stupid. They'd listen to what the councillors said and possibly - just possibly - they might throw up a good idea or two. So why don't CCBC try it?  What is it they're always (apparently) trying to hide? They are, after all, the elected representatives of this borough yet with a very few exceptions that seems to slip their mind rather frequently.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Helig on February 14, 2015, 11:04:53 AM
When I saw the photo of the former paddling pool and surrounding area on the West Shore, I couldn't believe the desecration of this area. Having been absent from Llandudno for c 11 years, it is an outrage that the council has allowed this site, plus that of the former Pen Morfa Hotel, to deteriorate beyond recognition.

The beginning of the end for the West Shore was when the council made the dreadful changes to the bay and placed the foreign sourced sand on the beach. I remember the West Shore back to the 1950s and 1960s when it was a beautiful place and we dug for cockles in the sands. The sand dunes were not "blown sand" as someone has suggested. These were a natural ancient sand area with vegetation, gorse bushes and sea shore type plants. They were quite substantial in height and area. You could walk along them as far as the Deganwy swimming pool I think. We used to sunbathe in them and I have photos taken in the 1950s which indicate what they were like then.

I cannot understand why The White Rabbit was allowed to be wrecked and decay for years. This was a lovely memorial with historic interest. I have a photo of an aunt of mine dressed as the Jack of Hearts with other local children in costume and Lloyd George opening this back in times gone by.

The council should hang their heads in shame. Who, or what, do they represent? It is not the interests of Llandudno for sure.

Helig.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Gwynant on February 14, 2015, 12:09:42 PM
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Thanks Norman, nothing surprises me about the stupid antics of CCBC.   I told Cllr Priestly about that inane practise a few years ago but hey ho nothing changes.
By the way, can you remember playing in those WWII  lookout places that were on the sandhills just past where the old water board property is now?
              I seem to recall that there was also a shallow lake in the sandhills at the end of Trinity Avenue where we used to take the rafts that we had made out of old tin drums and planks where the model railway layout and Dwr Cymru pumping station is now, and also a small pond could be found in the waste ground where the Trinity Centre and the flats are now, between Trinity Avenue and St.Seiriol's Road, which couldn't be seen from the road.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 14, 2015, 01:54:48 PM
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Thanks Norman, nothing surprises me about the stupid antics of CCBC.   I told Cllr Priestly about that inane practise a few years ago but hey ho nothing changes.
By the way, can you remember playing in those WWII  lookout places that were on the sandhills just past where the old water board property is now?
              I seem to recall that there was also a shallow lake in the sandhills at the end of Trinity Avenue where we used to take the rafts that we had made out of old tin drums and planks where the model railway layout and Dwr Cymru pumping station is now, and also a small pond could be found in the waste ground where the Trinity Centre and the flats are now, between Trinity Avenue and St.Seiriol's Road, which couldn't be seen from the road.

I remember that lake too Gwynant.   It wasn't always there but seemed to appear whenever the sea breached the shingle, sandy area of the dunes where the old water board place is now.
I can't remember that small pond by the Trinity Centre though but I did see an O/S map in the Archives of 1889 and there was a river running down Maelgwyn Road and curving through the area where the Trinity Centre is and linking up with the ditch from Cwm Road
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 14, 2015, 03:11:35 PM
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I,m sure your mam must have taken you to the west shore before the council messed it up ,WE want the sand on the beach not over the wall and the roads , you must be old enough to remember how good it was as my lads are younger than you and remember it .

To be honest, as a kid, I never took much interest in the Aeolian processes and coastal management...I made sand castles and paddled.

I once caught crabs, but that's another story.

Those people who are lucky enough to be living in the West Shore area have gone there because it is in a lovely location to live in with the sea , beach and those stunning views.
I've spoken to a number of people living there and I'm sure that they would also like to make sand castles on the beach, rather than in their front garden or in some cases in their attic
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: OrmeMac on February 14, 2015, 05:04:52 PM
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I seem to recall that there was also a shallow lake in the sandhills at the end of Trinity Avenue where we used to take the rafts that we had made out of old tin drums and planks where the model railway layout and Dwr Cymru pumping station is now.

Is there more info on this model railway layout as I haven't heard of it before? The only model railway place I can remember was up the alley across from The Palladium.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on February 14, 2015, 05:31:02 PM
The model railway is a newish venture, I have been past a few times, but have never seen it operational. Anyone know if it is finished?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on February 14, 2015, 07:47:45 PM
It's still work in progress ,they are there at w/ends mostly ,they have had it open ,I reckon Easter time could be next open to have a ride on .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Gwynant on February 14, 2015, 08:16:13 PM
             Re: the Model Railway, I think the term "Miniature Railway" would be more appropriate as it is similar to the railway that features annually in the Extravaganza in Mostyn Street, which carries passengers astride the rolling stock. I think that they were originally in the site on which the new school on Bodafon Fields, Craig-y-Don was built and they moved to West Shore and as Norman says they are there mainly at weekends. They have built a circuit and a siding all on raised breeze blocks as again as Norman says it is work in progress or unfinished business but they seem very dedicated to the end product.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: majormellons on February 15, 2015, 02:00:45 AM
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I,m sure your mam must have taken you to the west shore before the council messed it up ,WE want the sand on the beach not over the wall and the roads , you must be old enough to remember how good it was as my lads are younger than you and remember it .

To be honest, as a kid, I never took much interest in the Aeolian processes and coastal management...I made sand castles and paddled.

I once caught crabs, but that's another story.

Those people who are lucky enough to be living in the West Shore area have gone there because it is in a lovely location to live in with the sea , beach and those stunning views.
I've spoken to a number of people living there and I'm sure that they would also like to make sand castles on the beach, rather than in their front garden or in some cases in their attic

When you play on the West Shore, you get sand in your underpants. You don't complain to the council, you take a shower.
If you didn't want a sandy bottom, you avoid playing near the West Shore, capish?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 15, 2015, 09:47:25 AM
There is an old saying that Wisdom comes with age but you seem very determined to be the exception.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on February 15, 2015, 09:58:35 AM
Nobody mentioned the sand ON THE BEACH ,it's the sand all over the place you know the stuff that the idiots put back over the wall ,above the water mark so it blows back over , your council tax pays for that oh yes they are putting that up again ,  we have all had fun on that beach .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on February 15, 2015, 10:42:38 AM
I don't know enough about the coastal dynamics at W shore to  comment, really, except to say that the West Shore area is both exposed to the prevailing winds and the ongoing and dual threats of serious erosion and flooding. It's not a place we would buy a house for those reasons alone.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 15, 2015, 11:05:23 AM
I'm no expert on coastal dynamics or the like either Ian, but I can only say what I've seen.  The promenade at West Shore was once a very desirable place to live with classy houses along the front.
Those houses are still there but if you have a close look at many they now look like they need some TLC .   I spoke to the owner of a nursing home there after his home had appeared in the paper and on TV and he had had 10 tons of sand removed from his front garden and there was over 2 inches of sand in the attic above the patients bedroom.
He sold that property and Anwyl has since built town houses on the site.
There is a problem with the weather on the West Shore, but it has been created by increasing the level of the beach and creating a ramp like structure for any wind blown sand to fly over the wall.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: majormellons on February 15, 2015, 12:10:50 PM
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I don't know enough about the coastal dynamics at W shore to  comment, really, except to say that the West Shore area is both exposed to the prevailing winds and the ongoing and dual threats of serious erosion and flooding. It's not a place we would buy a house for those reasons alone.

My point exactly Ian.
I guess some people find that difficult to grasp.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on February 15, 2015, 01:20:36 PM
If man had not messed about with the west shore we wouldn't,t have the mess ,by the way ian,major melons the council were told by people in the know that this would happen ,, as we have said before they messed about it was perfect .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 15, 2015, 01:50:21 PM
We have shown Majormellons the photographs of the area before and after the 1980's sea defence so if he hasn't got the nous to understand what has happened as a result of the sea defence then that's his loss.         >?>?? >?>??   
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: majormellons on February 15, 2015, 09:52:32 PM
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We have shown Majormellons the photographs of the area before and after the 1980's sea defence so if he hasn't got the nous to understand what has happened as a result of the sea defence then that's his loss.         >?>?? >?>??

Jebus... I'm at no loss.

I live on West Shore. I get sand blasted. I moved here in 2001, in full knowledge that sand may be an issue.
I could care less who's fault it is, it's MY decision to live here, and I don't bitch about the sand.....if I was bothered, I'd move.

I suggest you do the same.

But you won't, as you'd rather just moan about living by the sea and be bothered by sand.
There seems nothing you can do to change CCBC's stance on sea defenses on west shore, so MOVE!!!

Queue....."Why should I move....etc", well quit moaning then.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: majormellons on February 15, 2015, 09:54:16 PM
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If man had not messed about with the west shore we wouldn't,t have the mess ,by the way ian,major melons the council were told by people in the know that this would happen ,, as we have said before they messed about it was perfect .

What a ridiculous argument.

If man had not messed with West Shore then we would not be living in houses on West Shore.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 15, 2015, 10:19:52 PM
Now that you've chucked all the toys out of your pram, I can tell you that I don't live on the West Shore but I haven't the time or the inclination to take  part in any further inane chat with you.
I do go for walks on the West Shore with my dog and at least I can have a more stimulating and intellectual chat with him.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: majormellons on February 15, 2015, 10:45:44 PM
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Now that you've chucked all the toys out of your pram, I can tell you that I don't live on the West Shore but I haven't the time or the inclination to take  part in any further inane chat with you.
I do go for walks on the West Shore with my dog and at least I can have a more stimulating and intellectual chat with him.

Em, Who's toys and pram?.....and you don't even live on West Shore!, oh my sides!

Interesting take on your doggie chat, bearing in made the relative intelligence of our canine friends....

Dog IQ's

36 - 40 = Genius!!!!!

32 - 35 = Highly Intelligent!!!!

28 - 31 = High Average!!!!!!!

20 - 27 = Average!!!!!!!

16 - 19 = Low Average!!!!!

12 - 15 = Borderline!!!!!!!

0 - 11 = Deficient!!! (a Really dumb dog!)

Good luck with your dog chat, it's nice that you find yourself on an intellectual level, I assume you have an Afgan hound?
http://petrix.com/dogint/intelligence.html (http://petrix.com/dogint/intelligence.html)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 15, 2015, 10:49:44 PM
I live on West Shore. I get sand blasted.        &shake&

Whose the idiot
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: majormellons on February 15, 2015, 11:31:53 PM
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I live on West Shore. I get sand blasted.        &shake&

Whose the idiot

But I'm not moaning about the sand, I moved here in full knowledge.

Hugo dear, please do keep up.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on February 16, 2015, 09:06:41 AM
Whooo !

Now now boys !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: born2run on February 16, 2015, 09:52:38 AM
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We have shown Majormellons the photographs of the area before and after the 1980's sea defence so if he hasn't got the nous to understand what has happened as a result of the sea defence then that's his loss.         >?>?? >?>??


There seems nothing you can do to change CCBC's stance on sea defenses on west shore, so MOVE!!!

Queue....."Why should I move....etc", well quit moaning then.

CCBC is that not the Tweenies and Bob the Builder and them? Can Bob the builder can fix it, YES HE CAN  $good$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 16, 2015, 10:14:02 AM
Thank you Nemesis and BTR,  very wise words indeed and hopefully it'll put an end to a pointless and silly difference of opinion.       $thanx$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on February 16, 2015, 11:13:20 AM
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Thank you Nemesis and BTR,  very wise words indeed and hopefully it'll put an end to a pointless and silly difference of opinion . . . . .
That has bored the pants off every other Member of the Forum!   🙉 🙈 🙊  👻 😂
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 16, 2015, 11:56:04 AM
My apologies to everyone then Yorkie,   I'll try not to get drawn into anything so trivial in the future.    :-[
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: born2run on February 16, 2015, 12:07:28 PM
Well it's done now
Lets just draw a line in the sand..... :twoface:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on February 16, 2015, 12:35:54 PM
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Well it's done now
Lets just draw a line in the sand.....

Would that be the sand on the Beach, cycle Path or the surrounding Roads?   🎉🎊🎋🎅🎄
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: majormellons on February 16, 2015, 12:37:50 PM
I don't intend apologising for having an opinion, I live in the UK, not North Korea.

The fact that some people think it's ok, to tell me what I should think, and moan when I have the audacity to reply, amazes me.

And Yorkie, if you are bored by any topic under discussion, then don't read it....nobody is forcing you. $thanx$

This, after all, a forum where people discuss things, or have I misread the situation?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: majormellons on February 16, 2015, 12:38:52 PM
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Well it's done now
Lets just draw a line in the sand.....

Would that be the sand on the Beach, cycle Path or the surrounding Roads?   🎉🎊🎋🎅🎄

Whoever thought a cycle path along West Shore would be a good idea, needs shooting!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 16, 2015, 12:41:50 PM
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Well it's done now
Lets just draw a line in the sand..... :twoface:

Naughty boy BTR       ;D     

 $smack$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on February 16, 2015, 12:42:31 PM
Quote
That has bored the pants off every other Member of the Forum!   🙉 🙈 🙊  👻 😂

In fact there's nothing like a disagreement to engender interest among members. Figures for this topic have positively soared in the last day or so :-)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on February 16, 2015, 12:43:10 PM
Ah!  So my comment was indeed worthy of being read?   Thank you Mellons!  🎃🎃🎃🎃
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Mr Tunnock on February 16, 2015, 12:48:21 PM
I agree with you Ian, I also don't bother reading a thread if it bores me, therefore don't moan abouts threads that don't intrest me.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: born2run on February 16, 2015, 01:20:05 PM
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Quote
That has bored the pants off every other Member of the Forum!   🙉 🙈 🙊  👻 😂

In fact there's nothing like a disagreement to engender interest among members. Figures for this topic has positively soared in the last day or so :-)

Agree with Ian it's been an interesting debate, I haven't joined in because I have no opinion one way or the other. My only issues with West shore are that the lawn near the boating lake should be kept neat and proper and be available to use by anyone all year round to play lawn games (which it is in the winter, until it gets sunny then the putting green pops up to fleece tourists) and the toilets should be FREE or the very least free for locals who pay council tax.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on February 16, 2015, 11:22:30 PM
I just want someone to open Sundowner's Bar at West Shore,  I can see it now....  a money spinner and a great place for a beer.
 ZXZ
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on February 17, 2015, 07:06:01 AM
We have had no flooding so the boulders have worked but at the expense of more sand and a massive expense every year clearing the stuff.Im sure the houses opposite the boating pool now have tentimes the amount of sand in their attics than before the boulders but that might be a small price to pay as no floods occur.The cycle path was never going to work which is such a shame as it was the buisiest walk on a niceday,a complete flat walk to Conwy.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on February 17, 2015, 10:34:42 AM
Been away for the weekend and have returned to find this topic has taken off. Must be over 4 pages in a few days. is this a record ?

It has always been possible to walk West Shore to Deganwy without the help of a cycle track.

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 17, 2015, 11:18:05 AM
We never had flooding before the breakwaters were installed so there is no conclusive proof that they have actually prevented any flooding since.    However,  I was on the West Shore last year during the storms and the breakwater by the Toll House was taking a severe pounding from the waves and so therefore saved the shore from such a pounding.     
Breakwaters, also called bulkheads, reduce the intensity of wave action in inshore waters and thereby reduce coastal erosion or provide safe harbourage. Breakwaters may also be small structures designed to protect a gently sloping beach and placed one to three hundred feet offshore in relatively shallow water.
What has happened at Llandudno is that the breakwater has been linked to the shore, the beach artificially increased in height and this is what has caused  the problems on the West Shore.
Now Wrex,  I believe that you were a former Councillor and I know that you have a wealth of local knowledge and care for the town and would appreciate your comments on my question.
Knowing the prevailing conditions in the town why has the CCBC chosen to use sand as a sea defence on the West Shore yet has chosen to use rocks or cobbles on the North Shore?
We are both sensible and mature adults but I haven't been able to comprehend the logic in their actions,  perhaps you can enlighten me.
I'm asking you because I know that you'll give me an intelligent reply even if you haven't got the answer.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on February 17, 2015, 01:06:13 PM
Hugo, I think you will find that the choice of materials and method depends on the intensity of the weather on each particular shore.   The worse the weather the more rugged protection.  I will leave Wrex to give the more technical answers.  ⛅️⚡️🌊
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 17, 2015, 01:21:04 PM
Thanks Yorkie, that all makes sense if it applied, we'll see what Wrex has to say about the matter,   
This is a plan of the defence and the materials used
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: majormellons on February 17, 2015, 01:37:18 PM
Awaiting the guru that is Wrex.......I guess Hugo wants to know what colour paint would be best for stopping sand ;D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on February 17, 2015, 02:03:01 PM
Wrex is a very great man....
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SDQ on February 17, 2015, 02:04:40 PM
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Wrex is a very great man....


Do I sense somebody has some decorating that needs doing?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: majormellons on February 17, 2015, 04:41:15 PM
I'm sure we can rely on Wrex not to gloss over the subject.

(no more paint gags please!)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on February 17, 2015, 08:56:12 PM
 How about papering over the cracks then? :o L0L
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: snowcap on February 17, 2015, 10:23:25 PM
C,mon Nem that,s still a Gag no matter how you decorate it
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: pebbles on February 18, 2015, 04:33:33 AM
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The Council in their wisdom decided to increase the level of the beach by 10 foot or more and in the 1980's or thereabouts the problems started.
The problems at the West Shore are entirely man made, not by the powers of nature which you seem to suggest and was constructed as the cheapest option available and didn't take into account the conditions which should have been obvious to anyone living in the town.
Just in case you have any lingering doubt as to who is correct, here is a photo of the White Rabbit statue before the 1980's


Not to be pedantic but people keep syaing it was the 80s that it all changed - it wasn't, on my summer holiday in 1991 the beach was how it had been every year of my life (and all of my mums childhood too) ie the steps with sand at the bottom of it. Summer 1992 however we crossed the kids playground and stopped in horror at the sight before us - a billion tons of "sharp builders stone and rocks" and the 3 large sea defence groins. It took me years to get over it - if i even am ;)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 18, 2015, 10:40:52 AM
Sorry about that Pebbles but thanks very much for putting us all straight.    $good$
I remember you posting a lovely photo of your mother standing on those steps but I couldn't find it on here when I was looking for it recently.
At least we are old enough to remember the good memories that came with how the beach once was.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on February 18, 2015, 11:03:57 AM
I'm pretty sure I have a photo of the steps.  I'll have a dig around.

But all this would be unnecessary if only CCBC would come clean and explain why they did what they did.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: pebbles on February 18, 2015, 04:48:30 PM
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Sorry about that Pebbles but thanks very much for putting us all straight.    $good$
I remember you posting a lovely photo of your mother standing on those steps but I couldn't find it on here when I was looking for it recently.
At least we are old enough to remember the good memories that came with how the beach once was.

hehe that's ok  ;)

Wow you have a long memory! Yes i posted a pic of what mum always told me was LL in the 50s, but iirc you guys said it wasn't! I don't have the pic to hand, in fact don't seem to have any of my pre beach disaster pics handy apart from this one of me and my sister in 1979. I  have blued out our faces cos i posted this last time i think and my sister found it on a google image search and was not happy i posted her face  ;D

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v618/imperialdrag96/may79bluefaced_zpscgurpwkx.jpg)

I suppose in a way it's been so long now i've got used to the beach (or what's left of it) - it's the fear of them adding even more rock again which i know they're talking about. Fixing north shore seems to have more people behind it - but that definitely needs an overhaul.. i'm always telling my boyfriend as we clamber over rocks that are pretending to be pebbles in front of the theatre that even in the early 90s there was pebbles and sand *gasp*

I'm so addicted to the place i love that it doesn't stop me coming back, but i would think many without that emotional connection will honestly be put off lately :(
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on February 18, 2015, 05:46:07 PM
The steps actually looked rather nicer, too.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 18, 2015, 06:40:29 PM
Thanks Pebbles for posting the photo of the two of you, the sea looked very calm there on that day.
The black and white photo of your mother was taken on the West Shore in Llandudno and it was a great photo of your mum and the steps.  If my memory serves me right it seemed that it was a reverse image for some reason and Ian sorted it out, but it definitely was Llandudno and the sand hills in that picture were where the car park is nowadays.  Happy memories for you         $good$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on February 18, 2015, 09:27:23 PM
As Pebbles says a lot of us have memories of how good it used to be.

How many of the young ones coming today will want to come backwith the same attachment?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 18, 2015, 10:34:07 PM
Yes, looking at the photo again, the place where I would swim was by the Toll House as the water was deeper there and you could sunbathe
on the steps after the swim.     $good$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: majormellons on February 19, 2015, 12:14:00 PM
It seems that there are a lot of older people bemoaning WS.
They seem worried about what today's kids will think.

My young daughter loves West Shore and just accepts it for what it is.
She doesn't really care how it looked 30 years ago, she is enjoying it now.
A lot of rose tinted glasses being worn, thinking back to the summer of 76?

A lot of 'experts' on here telling us that the works on WS have ruined it.
I'd rather trust actual experts, who have to consider the elemental damage to the whole town, and not just to somebody's front lawn.

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 19, 2015, 12:21:20 PM
To use an appropriate metaphor, you might get sandblasted but you're still not the brightest pebble on the beach,,,,, far from it!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on February 19, 2015, 02:08:37 PM
Quote
I'd rather trust actual experts, who have to consider the elemental damage to the whole town, and not just to somebody's front lawn.

This is probably the crux of the matter. Some estimates put sea level rises at 36cm by 2080 and the evidence for increasing extremes of weather is undeniable.  The problems facing low-lying tracts of land such as the Llandudno Isthmus are twofold: protecting the town and yet preserving the amenity.  Protecting the town is relatively simple.  A six-foot high concrete and brick wall around the shores will do the job, yet there might be the odd mutter of discontent. On the other hand , whatever actions are taken will change the shape of the area.

So what's the solution?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: majormellons on February 19, 2015, 05:58:23 PM
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Quote
I'd rather trust actual experts, who have to consider the elemental damage to the whole town, and not just to somebody's front lawn.

This is probably the crux of the matter. Some estimates put sea level rises at 36cm by 2080 and the evidence for increasing extremes of weather is undeniable.  The problems facing low-lying tracts of land such as the Llandudno Isthmus are twofold: protecting the town and yet preserving the amenity.  Protecting the town is relatively simple.  A six-foot high concrete and brick wall around the shores will do the job, yet there might be the odd mutter of discontent. On the other hand , whatever actions are taken will change the shape of the area.

So what's the solution?

For a simpleton like me (thanks Hugo) unless we accept change, we will lose Llandudno under the sea.
I would like my daughter, once her stupid (thanks again Hugo) dad has left this mortal coil, to bring up her children in Llandudno.

But, I guess I'm not incredibly selfish, and only thinking of how I am going to cope with a bit of sand on my gravel drive.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: pebbles on February 19, 2015, 10:55:19 PM
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It seems that there are a lot of older people bemoaning WS.

A lot of rose tinted glasses being worn, thinking back to the summer of 76?





 :o  :o  :o

Older people????

I'll have you know i was 18 months old in the summer of 76  ;D


So i don't class myself as older people... and yes kids still love it - it's a beach with sand which is all that counts to them :)
I just meant the whole overall addiction to a town a hundred miles from where they live the rest of the year might not exist longterm. I for one used to cry the day we came home - even at 15!! (I might add i fixed that by going every few months instead of once a year when my other half finally got a car, unfortunately i was 32 by then!)


(I'd like to add as a kid on west shore sitting on the steps in my swimming cosi letting the sea get chest high then moving up a step to let it happen all over again was fantastic! Though i did also like sand, honest!)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on February 21, 2015, 08:56:42 AM
This whole debate evolves around the fact before CCBC built the groynes there was no problem with sand,since its horrendous but we have had no flooding,the main problem is CCBC have made no effort whatsoever to stop the sand blowing over and lets be honest it only comes over in one spot.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 21, 2015, 09:46:23 AM
Thanks Wrex for your reply and it's just what I was thinking.   I can't remember any flooding before the groynes were built but the sand problem does come in two spots and both are where they have built the groynes.
CCBC should have done something to solve the sand problem, they can't brush it away under the carpet but they are trying to brush it down the drain.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Yorkie on February 21, 2015, 11:14:50 AM
Here is a decent article on sand movements, worth reading.  There are others, some containing long equations for the more mathematically minded.   ZXZ

http://www.fao.org/docrep/012/i1488e/i1488e04.pdf (http://www.fao.org/docrep/012/i1488e/i1488e04.pdf)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on February 21, 2015, 11:34:00 AM
That's a good paper, and reading through it it seems that the only viable option to stop the sand would be to create new dunes, probably on top of the current boating lake position. In effect, the current grassed areas and small lake would be sacrificed to a new dune plantation, which would extend to the roadway.

It's an interesting proposition...
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 21, 2015, 02:22:17 PM
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That's a good paper, and reading through it it seems that the only viable option to stop the sand would be to create new dunes, probably on top of the current boating lake position. In effect, the current grassed areas and small lake would be sacrificed to a new dune plantation, which would extend to the roadway.

It's an interesting proposition...

But don't suggest that to the  CCBC or they will think about putting a cycle path there!      *cycle*     *tumble*

Why not just leave the groynes where they are and take away the imported sand, much easier and cheaper in the long run.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: pebbles on February 23, 2015, 11:08:49 PM
I know you guys are quite rightly talking about ways to save LL from the sea and coastal erosion, but i'll do one more bit of nostalgia then i'll be off!

(But before i'm accused of rose tinted glasses of halcion hot summers i'll add that many of my memories of LL as a child were in the wind and rain, but i still had a good time!)

I found this pic i'd scanned a few years ago, of me and my sister in 1983 - i was 8 and we had a great time as you can see, but it shows the steps in great detail so i thought i'd post it. Also shows how muddy the beach could get, but we dug pools so we were happy hehe)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v618/imperialdrag96/west1983_zps0ejfa6ge.jpg)

This would have been more or less in front of the golf/toilet block.
I know there's a photo of us in the exact same spot in 1992 looking very p****d off in shock at the new surroundings (!!) but i can't find it, so you're spared that ;)

Ok, i'm off now, carry on  $walesflag$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on February 24, 2015, 07:29:44 AM
Quote
Why not just leave the groynes where they are and take away the imported sand, much easier and cheaper in the long run.

Not sure about that, but I read somewhere that groynes actively assist sand consolidation, so their very presence might be creating a lot of the problems.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 24, 2015, 08:34:14 AM
Thanks very much for posting those photos Pebbles, they do bring back nice memories.     The groynes do not always assist sand consolidation Ian, just look at the Rhos on Sea breakwater.   That's a perfect example of how it should be done, it has stopped the regular flooding in Rhos on Sea and the sand has not built up either, simply because that groyne was not linked to the shore.
Llandudno's West Shore problem was created because those expert consultants linked the groyne to the beach and then compounded the problem by artificially raising the height of the beach to create the problems we now have
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on February 24, 2015, 11:54:37 AM
Rhos' sand quantities increased significantly after their breakwater was installed. I remember some years ago seeing the hand rail from the steps to the beach disappearing into soft, dry sand. Of course, they didn't have more sand dumped on top of the existing, I imagine.  Having said that I haven't seen the Rhos beach recently.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 24, 2015, 01:23:36 PM
They did have a bit of sand dumped on that small beach a few years ago and had some vehicles levelling it off.  I was watching them doing it from my window when I was using the computer.
I don't know where they got it from though as it didn't look a good quality sand and there wasn't much of it either but the families with small children seem to enjoy it
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on February 25, 2015, 11:19:42 AM
Apropos the original debate, and the Beeb has reported unprecedented sea level rises (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-31604953) along the E coast of the US.  The most worrying sentence in the report is this:

"Coastal areas will need to prepare for short term and extreme sea level events".  We may well be witnessing the return of the Gt Orme to an Island.

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on February 25, 2015, 02:10:43 PM
OMG Ian!   I thought that last bit about Llandudno was actually IN the report!!   
Then I read it, and realised that you had added it in, as your own comment. 

 :o :o :o
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 25, 2015, 02:24:23 PM
Property prices on the Great Orme would rocket if it was true.   
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on February 25, 2015, 04:41:35 PM
We can all move in with Fester.lol
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on February 26, 2015, 09:42:47 AM
Ian, I think you have been watching to much Al Gore.
See it for what it is.
Fails as a Presidential candidate,gets himself set up to rake in money from Green projects,makes a film skewed to scare everyone.

There have always been flooding issues that need addressing, but what is going on now is making big money for some people.
Climate change has been going on since the Creation. No need to go overboard about it.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on February 26, 2015, 11:34:56 AM
Quote
Ian, I think you have been watching to much Al Gore.
See it for what it is.
Fails as a Presidential candidate,gets himself set up to rake in money from Green projects,makes a film skewed to scare everyone.

Not sure what you mean, as this is research by NOAA and confirmed by other reputable climate centres. I don't now what films you're watching, but I get information like this from academic studies, not Hollywood.

Quote
Climate change has been going on since the Creation. No need to go overboard about it.

Not at the current rate it hasn't. And last year the WAG was talking 'managed retreats' in Mid Wales because of climate change. Be a denier all you wish, and follow Sarah Palin into the sea if that's what you want but some of  us still think things can be changed.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on February 27, 2015, 10:28:00 AM
So did King Canute. ££$ ££$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on February 27, 2015, 10:46:06 AM
So are you arguing there's no problem and we shouldn't do anything?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on February 27, 2015, 11:33:17 AM
As I said in my posting, flooding issues need addressing. But not the way Conway Council go about it.

Climate change will continue, nothing man can do will stop it.
Be aware there are a lot of Green snake oil salesmen out there. You only have to stand on the Great Orme and look towards the Wirral.
Our energy bills and tax are paying for all those useless windmills.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on February 27, 2015, 12:06:37 PM
Quote
As I said in my posting, flooding issues need addressing. But not the way Conway Council go about it.

Ignoring the fact that you seem to agree with my posting how would you suggest CCBC deal with the potential issues? I don't believe CCBC have anything to do with the windmills, do they? And do you think things can be changed or not?

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on February 27, 2015, 01:23:11 PM
Ian, don't forget to take a look at Al Gore, 'An Inconvenient Truth'

It's pretty hard hitting stuff, and very well done.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on February 27, 2015, 02:08:57 PM
It is, indeed, and extremely pertinent. I'm simply curious that Mull seems to think it's all poppycock...
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 04, 2015, 10:31:33 AM
I was on the West Shore yesterday and the wind was very strong but it was good to see that the CCBC had at an enormous expense installed fencing to stop the wind blowing onto the Promenade and the nearby streets.      &shake&
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on May 05, 2015, 05:08:21 PM
It was really windy in Llandudno today and especially so on the West Shore.   I didn't stay there too long after I took the photo and was glad to get back in the car.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on May 06, 2015, 09:08:27 AM
We went past yesterday and saw the mountains of sand that have reappeared by the lake. Sure it's only a couple of weeks since CCBC cleared it all away?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on May 06, 2015, 09:21:22 AM
Let us have some photos.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on May 06, 2015, 09:42:14 AM
They cleared the sand few weeks ago and took it out of where the statue was ,it was all back few days later , they also cleared the cycle path  _))* two days later sand was back ,this council really knows how to waste Our money . If they did a one off job of taking them two Rock groynes away ,back to how it was .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on May 06, 2015, 09:44:21 AM
When I was there they were clearing the sand away from the road and pavement.  I have no idea where they dumped it as I didn't hang around long enough in that wind.

Mull,   Dave may have taken some photos yesterday but here are some I have taken previously.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on May 06, 2015, 09:49:02 AM
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They cleared the sand few weeks ago and took it out of where the statue was ,it was all back few days later , they also cleared the cycle path  _))* two days later sand was back ,this council really knows how to waste Our money . If they did a one off job of taking them two Rock groynes away ,back to how it was .

Norman,  I had a look at the level of the sand by the groynes and it is now above the level of the promenade so no wonder it is blowing over the wall quicker than in the past.   Especially when those muppets dump more sand on top of what's there already
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Michael on May 06, 2015, 08:05:01 PM
    To be fair to the Council it only takes a matter of a few hours if the conditions are unsuitable for a massive invasion of sand.  The conditions are a very strong   wind in exactly the "wrong" direction and a very low tide. Get these two in an area subject to suffering from sand and you have trouble.
    I remember a good few years ago, probably about 40, when Sandy Cove (now you know why it got its name. Its not a nickname) between Towyn and Kinmel Bay when it was so bad a dozen or more bungalows were more or less impossible to get in or out. It must have been bad, I remember the Mayor from Colwyn Bay being driven down in his chauffeured car to give a (publicity) hand at trying to help residents out.   It took only around three hours for the sand to arrive.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on May 07, 2015, 05:22:10 PM
Thanks for the photos, glad I am not having to live with that lot.

It does not look like it is bothering the big fluffy fella.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on May 10, 2015, 04:22:02 PM
My dog Marco and I were on the West Shore sand hills a few years ago looking for the cycle track from the West Shore to Deganwy that the CCBC Councillors in their wisdom approved of and had constructed.
Just so you know where it is if you want to cycle on that route,  it is about one or two feet below the sand where these walkers are on!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on May 12, 2015, 09:22:20 AM
The Cycle Path has almost completely disappeared for a distance of several hundred yards. Isn't about time CCBC just gave up on trying to defeat the elements here?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on May 12, 2015, 10:51:57 AM
They should turn it into a tunnel!  WWW
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: majormellons on May 12, 2015, 10:59:26 AM
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The Cycle Path has almost completely disappeared for a distance of several hundred yards. Isn't about time CCBC just gave up on trying to defeat the elements here?

How they ever thought it was a good idea, I'll never know.
Put a cycle path, at beach level, lying perpendicular to the prevailing SW winds.....what could possible go wrong?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on September 08, 2015, 01:08:23 PM
The Cycle Path has once again been cleared of sand. Sand is already starting to encroach upon it.  &shake&
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on September 08, 2015, 01:48:41 PM
I would love to know the cost of that job ,must be at least eight times this year they have cleared it ,few days and it's back ,ccbc know how to waste Our money .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on September 08, 2015, 04:17:26 PM
I couldn't find the cycle track when I went past in August and my dog was looking for it too but he couldn't find it either.    What does it look like Dave?      Hope that you took a photo just to prove that there is in fact one there.       WWW
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Cyril Hoskins on September 08, 2015, 05:15:34 PM
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The Cycle Path has once again been cleared of sand. Sand is already starting to encroach upon it.  &shake&

The sand doesn't return as often and as quickly as this thread does.

Can't wait to hear someone bleating about how many tons they've shifted from their gardens/attics etc

And of course we'll have some lovely sepia tinted pictures of ye olde Llandudno when not one drop of sand left the beach.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Cyril Hoskins on September 08, 2015, 05:19:12 PM
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I couldn't find the cycle track when I went past in August and my dog was looking for it too but he couldn't find it either
No he wasn't Dave.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on September 08, 2015, 08:45:31 PM
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I would love to know the cost of that job ,must be at least eight times this year they have cleared it ,few days and it's back ,ccbc know how to waste Our money .
The path needs to be re-routed along the top of the sand dunes onto the footpath there, I think.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blongb on September 08, 2015, 09:39:17 PM
You can't build a path through, over or around sand dunes and expect it to remain open and clear. It just doesn't happen.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on September 09, 2015, 09:41:47 AM
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The Cycle Path has once again been cleared of sand. Sand is already starting to encroach upon it.  &shake&

The sand doesn't return as often and as quickly as this thread does.

Can't wait to hear someone bleating about how many tons they've shifted from their gardens/attics etc

And of course we'll have some lovely sepia tinted pictures of ye olde Llandudno when not one drop of sand left the beach.

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be but it's good to see scepticism isn't a major problem either
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on November 01, 2015, 06:36:55 PM
Really beautiful colours the sun went down over the mountains on Sat evening.

A shame my crappy iphone camera didn't do it justice.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on December 21, 2015, 11:30:08 AM
I don't know if many members have walked along the cycle path from West Shore to Deganwy lately, but it's a sight to behold. The recent gales have completely obliterated the cycle path, it must be covered with thousands of tons of sand. All that work only a few weeks ago to clear it has been completely wasted. When will CCBC stop wasting money in an unwinnable battle with nature?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on December 21, 2015, 11:32:02 AM
You mean holding council meetings?   WWW WWW WWW
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on December 22, 2015, 11:10:10 AM
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I don't know if many members have walked along the cycle path from West Shore to Deganwy lately, but it's a sight to behold. The recent gales have completely obliterated the cycle path, it must be covered with thousands of tons of sand. All that work only a few weeks ago to clear it has been completely wasted. When will CCBC stop wasting money in an unwinnable battle with nature?

Last night was horrendous with the wind and rain and the cycle track would only have got worse as a result.   I haven't been there recently but did go past the boating lake a few weeks ago and the sand had built up there, but until the Winter storms have finished the sand will still keep coming over.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on December 22, 2015, 05:17:55 PM
cycle path should go along the top as far as black rocks
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on December 23, 2015, 10:07:00 AM
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cycle path should go along the top as far as black rocks
Yes, it's the only realistic long term solution.  $good$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on December 23, 2015, 10:12:23 AM
Here's a thought: wonder if some enterprising company could route the cycle path directly from West Shore to Conwy Marina...  It would, of course, require a barrage to be constructed, but they could make money from installing several tidal turbines in the barrage. The only other issue would be installing lock gates to ensure boat passage.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 20, 2016, 03:13:58 PM
It was such a beautiful Winter's day today so I thought that I'd have a walk along the cycle track at the West Shore and see what it was like since DaveR went there.    It's a nice walk and quite enjoyable doing it on a day like today.  I just walked from the car park to the Black rocks and back and I would imagine that locals and visitors alike will be enjoying that stretch of beach during the Summer months.
As a cycle track it's not fit for purpose and as you can see from the photos the idiots have stacked the soft sand on the western side of the track!      One more Winter storm and it'll all come back.    I only saw three people with bikes using it and obviously they could only walk on the sand and push their bikes along.
The tide was very low so I took a photo of the wreck of the Flying Foam.   I took another of the wreck of the old Water Board building but it was good to see that it is being used now.    That "sculpture" in the foreground of the photo should be added to the Eyesore list, what a waste of money.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: born2run on January 20, 2016, 03:22:40 PM
Is that miniature train track anywhere near finished yet? The London Underground was built quicker.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 20, 2016, 03:27:03 PM
Sorry BTR but I didn't notice it.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bri Roberts on January 20, 2016, 03:58:47 PM
I think there was an official opening last Summer.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Gwynant on January 20, 2016, 04:28:04 PM
                 I see some of the volunteers working on the site of the model railway at weekends occasionally when the weather is suitable. They seemed to be constructing a loop off the main circuit and there are quite a lot of building materials on site waiting to be utilised.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bri Roberts on January 20, 2016, 05:40:30 PM
Friday, 26 June, 2015

Guto Bebb was pleased to be invited to the official opening of the West Shore Miniature Railway will take place on Saturday, 27th June 2015.  He will be joined by the Mayor of Llandudno, Cllr Frank Bradfield, who will name a locomotive which has been purchased with the help of a grant from the Town Council, and Cllr Brian Cossey, Vice Chair of Conwy County Borough Council, who will officially open the railway. An inaugural train will then take the invited guests on a trip around the track.  Train rides for visitors will then take place until the close of the event at 17:00. Also following the official opening there will be an opportunity for visitors to view a small exhibition of the Society member's models.  The Railway will be open as usual, prior to the official proceedings, from midday to 13:30 for visitors to have a ride around the track.

The new railway was constructed after the North Wales Model Engineering Society relocated from their previous base in the grounds of Ysgol Gogarth several years ago. The Society was formed over 50 years ago as a result of 3 people meeting in a café in Llandudno. It has grown slowly to its present size with a membership in the region of 60 members.  It aims to foster an interest in engineering through the construction of model engines of all kinds. Many members have had no previous training in engineering but with the help of other members have been able to gain such skills as necessary to produce working models.

Guto commented, “I am delighted to hear that this project is now well and truly off the ground.  It is great to see a volunteer organisation getting together and creating a miniature tourist attraction on Llandudno’s West Shore that we can all be proud of.”
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Meleri on January 23, 2016, 03:35:06 PM
There is a Council meeting on March 17th 2016, Topic :- To consider a report in relation to a request to clear sand at West Shore public area. It can be viewed live on The Conwy Council Webcast if anyone is interested.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 23, 2016, 04:48:04 PM
Thanks Meleri,  I'll have a look at that.    Easter is on the 27th  March this year but hopefully any resolution can be passed and acted upon by the early May Bank Holiday
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on January 24, 2016, 11:51:25 AM
Remember them putting the Water Board building up, it does not seem that long ago or is it me getting old.
Was there a lot of objections at the time from local residents losing the view towards Snowdonia.
If the Water Board are not using it anymore , who is ?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 24, 2016, 06:29:59 PM
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There is a Council meeting on March 17th 2016, Topic :- To consider a report in relation to a request to clear sand at West Shore public area. It can be viewed live on The Conwy Council Webcast if anyone is interested.


Meleri,  I've had a look but can't find the request,   are you able to produce it on here?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 26, 2016, 03:18:38 PM
The West Shore took the full force of the gale today, I could see the spray coming over the sea wall as I drove down Gloddaeth Avenue and the inevitable sand was flying over the wall too.
I could just about stand when I took some photos so it's no wonder the pics were shaky.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 02, 2016, 02:03:36 PM
It was pretty wild on the West Shore today and the sand is still coming over
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Meleri on February 02, 2016, 04:05:32 PM
Sorry I haven't got back sooner Hugo. That particular meetings has now been cancelled and is now 17th March. It will be under Communities Overview & Scrutiny Committee. Also there is a meeting titled :- Llandudno Vacant Pier Pavilion Site Update on 21st April that sounds interesting. I'm not very computer savy so don't know how to put on links.
If you Google Conwy Council Webcast, then click on webcast portal it will take you to where you can view the live Webcasts. Also there is an archive of Webcasts going back 6 months. They usually put all the info on times etc a few days before, under future webcasts. If you miss it live then you will be able to view it a few hours later when they put it back on. They really are an eye opener.  :o
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 02, 2016, 08:44:35 PM
Thanks very much Meleri,  I'll follow that up as soon as I can.     West Shore does have a problem with the sand as you can see from my photos today, but unless the CCBC addresses the cause and admits that errors have been made then the sand clearance will be ongoing and getting worse.
I've recently sent CCBC a request under the Freedom of Information Act concerning something on the West Shore and am looking forward to their reply.  It could be interesting.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on February 03, 2016, 08:53:27 AM
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Also there is a meeting titled :- Llandudno Vacant Pier Pavilion Site Update on 21st April that sounds interesting.
I imagine it will be a very short meeting. Rob Dix will stand up, say "We haven't done anything to sort the Pier Pavilion site out, but be fair, we've only had 22 years". Everyone will nod, the Chairman will say "OK, put it back on the Agenda in 2020" and the meeting will conclude.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on February 03, 2016, 10:45:57 AM
Hugo you may know or someone else on here may,before the idiots messed about with the Sandhills to create that cycle path and built them two rock groynes did the sand blow all over the place ,as I don't recall it happening .why do they require a meeting to move the sand , I walk the dog there when they move the sand to have a good laugh at our council tax getting wasted Again .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Gwynant on February 03, 2016, 04:29:20 PM
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Hugo you may know or someone else on here may,before the idiots messed about with the Sandhills to create that cycle path and built them two rock groynes did the sand blow all over the place ,as I don't recall it happening .why do they require a meeting to move the sand , I walk the dog there when they move the sand to have a good laugh at our council tax getting wasted Again .
     After I spoke to you this afternoon Norman, I took a bus to Deganwy and walked back home along the West Shore Cycle Path route. As you can see from the pics below cycling is definitely not an option at the moment, even walking on the path after the groyne at Black Rocks was an effort, and most of the walkers were on the beach.           
     Incidentally, if anyone has lost a fibreglass boat it is high and dry on the path between Deganwy prom and Black Rocks, I don't know how long it's been there. About the council meeting to move the sand, I think I remember reading somewhere that the law states that the area between the high and low water marks belongs to the Queen, and special permission has to be applied for to work there, and I presume that the council will want to put the sand back to where it came from (so it can return after the next big westerly gale!) 
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 03, 2016, 06:34:13 PM
Gwynant, those photos are just incredible and show just how stupid the CCBC was to build a cycle path there in the first place and even more stupid to keep trying to keep the path free from sand.
When they have cleared the sand the idiots have placed the sand in a position where it just blows back across the path,    They have done the same thing near the boating lake with disastrous consequences to that area of the town
 
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 03, 2016, 07:23:20 PM
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Hugo you may know or someone else on here may,before the idiots messed about with the Sandhills to create that cycle path and built them two rock groynes did the sand blow all over the place ,as I don't recall it happening .why do they require a meeting to move the sand , I walk the dog there when they move the sand to have a good laugh at our council tax getting wasted Again .

Norman, to answer your question briefly the answer is no.    The Sea defence with all those steps was built in the early 1950's and no sand blew over the wall as far as I remember, in actual fact it was the lack of sand that inspired those "experts"to build the Sea Defence in the 1990's that has caused catastrophic problems on the West Shore.
Where the cafe and car park is now was the start of the sand dunes but on a much smaller scale than those that Gwynant has photographed.
Sand did blow onto the dunes in that spot but that is nature for you but I do remember the time in the 1980's I think, when the North Wales Golf Club did some work on the course and removed the grass, thus exposing the sand underneath.   Because the NWGC had exposed the sand, the prevailing westerly wind blew the sand down Trinity Avenue.  I had a friend who lived in the Avenue and she had to park her car facing the town so as avoid sand blowing into the engine.
When man interferes with nature it can have disastrous results like what has happened in the USA and Russia but if you get a combination of CCBC planners and their expert consultants then you know that it's just a disaster waiting to happen.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on February 04, 2016, 08:43:27 AM
Gwynant's photos illustrate perfectly how it is a complete waste of money to try clearing the sand from that location. The last time CCBC cleared it all was just before Christmas and it lasted less than 2 weeks before it was al covered again.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: spotty dog on February 04, 2016, 08:59:43 AM
Of cause if man had not interfered with nature and built Llandudno  the sand would  blow straight  through  to north shore two problems  solved   
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on February 04, 2016, 09:25:01 AM
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Gwynant's photos illustrate perfectly how it is a complete waste of money to try clearing the sand from that location. The last time CCBC cleared it all was just before Christmas and it lasted less than 2 weeks before it was al covered again.

Get those doing community service on the job, the ideal completely pointless task for them to do!  $good$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 04, 2016, 12:23:25 PM
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Of cause if man had not interfered with nature and built Llandudno  the sand would  blow straight  through  to north shore two problems  solved

If the sand was to blow through to the North Shore don't you think that it would have done so in the last few thousand years prior to the building of the town?
The problems on the West Shore didn't start when they built the first sea defence in the 1950's but only when the idiots allowed the sea defence of 1993 to be built.
That's just my  opinion.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 05, 2016, 03:56:09 PM
I was on the West Shore today and saw that they were trying to clean the sand up from the area by the boating lake.   A dumper truck was full of sand and I wondered where they were going to dump that sand.
After all that has been said and experienced in recent years, they must surely be dumping it as far away from the steps as possible, or are they?       &shake& &shake&
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 08, 2016, 02:19:11 PM
More gales today at Llandudno but I wouldn't venture on the West Shore for fear of getting sandblasted.   The pile of sand I saw the other day is still there and going nowhere at present.
At least it's not blowing back into the streets, for now anyway.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 10, 2016, 10:42:31 PM
It's a shame that the Summer House belonging to St Petrocks has been allowed to deteriorate as it's in such a unique and beautiful location.
There was a herd of Goats by Haulfre gardens but there one was on it's own high above the Toll House and it caught my attention. It seems that the Jackdaw noticed the Goat too.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on February 11, 2016, 08:53:42 AM
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It's a shame that the Summer House belonging to St Petrocks has been allowed to deteriorate as it's in such a unique and beautiful location.
I've always thought that too, would be a fantastic holiday home.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: llandudnotrust on February 12, 2016, 03:33:25 PM
Summer House !! you learn something new everyday on this forum.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 12, 2016, 05:35:41 PM
I believe that there is a cave that goes from the Summer House under the Marine Drive and ends up in the garage of St Petrocks.    The cave was the home of Isaac and Miriam Jones who lived there with their many children before  the Marine Drive was completed
One of our forum members who  is related to Isaac and Miriam was lucky enough to visit the cave last year.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on February 12, 2016, 06:24:02 PM
They took the name plate away at the front of St Petrocks...wonder if they were fed up of people peering in?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: llandudnotrust on February 13, 2016, 06:36:31 PM
Thanks for that Hugo
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 13, 2016, 10:32:28 PM
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Thanks for that Hugo

You're very welcome, here's a photo of the Summer house from the beach.   I can remember when it was in use, but that was a long time ago.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on February 16, 2016, 08:21:03 AM
The sand on the West Shore Cycle path has now reached biblical proportions, it's certainly a sight to behold. The newly created sand dunes are so deep that people are having to divert onto the beach to get round them in places.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on February 16, 2016, 08:41:04 AM
I suspect they're preparing for a remake of The Ten Commandments...
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 16, 2016, 08:44:36 AM
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The sand on the West Shore Cycle path has now reached biblical proportions, it's certainly a sight to behold. The newly created sand dunes are so deep that people are having to divert onto the beach to get round them in places.

When will they ever learn!     Another failed CCBC project
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on February 16, 2016, 04:31:05 PM
This council say they have to find £ 16 mill savings ,how many times did they move the sand ,and how many time will they waste Our money this year .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 21, 2016, 10:48:23 AM
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If you Google Conwy Council Webcast, then click on webcast portal it will take you to where you can view the live Webcasts. Also there is an archive of Webcasts going back 6 months. They usually put all the info on times etc a few days before, under future webcasts. If you miss it live then you will be able to view it a few hours later when they put it back on. They really are an eye opener.  :o

Do you know if they will do any research prior to the meeting because there is a lot of evidence in the public areas on West Shore  and a lot of photos and comments on here too?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on February 22, 2016, 02:46:12 PM
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The sand on the West Shore Cycle path has now reached biblical proportions, it's certainly a sight to behold. The newly created sand dunes are so deep that people are having to divert onto the beach to get round them in places.

I went there this morning and had a short walk along the "cycle track" and it's exactly as Dave has described.   I decided to let my dog off his lead as there were no cyclists on the path today    ;D     and you can get some idea of the sand problem when you see my dog in the picture.
In one photo Marco is sitting by a fence, well the top of it anyway as the other 3 feet or so of the fence is completely buried by the sand.
Coming back towards the car park I put Marco back on his lead as I've heard that people have been fined in that area for not having their dogs on the lead so I didn't fancy getting a large fine.
As I approached my car I noticed a large white CCBC parked in the road and saw a reference on the side of the van about dog owners
getting fined, which seemed ironic when the van was parked entirely on a bus stop.   There was so many other parking spaces on the road, why would they choose a bus stop to park?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on March 29, 2016, 03:30:46 PM
Welfare probe launched into Llandudno pony that sleeps in van with owner at West shore.

An animal welfare investigation was launched after reports of concern for a Shetland pony that has been sleeping in a van - along with its owner - on Llandudno ’s West Shore.
Carl Crofts from the British Horse Society (BHS) said he needed to check with colleagues whether space for the pony was adequate.

Owner Gareth Blyth, of Welsh Horse Yeomanry, insisted Taffy the pony had received a clean bill of health from the RSPCA.
The pair have been posing for photographs together for tourists in the town.

Former serviceman Mr Blyth, who dresses in a self-designed Welsh Horse Yeomanry uniform posing for pictures with the 19 year-old pony, confirmed he ran the enterprise as a business not a charity.
He was visited by Mr Crofts from the BHS after members of the public complained about the animal’s condition.
“The condition of the pony doesn’t alarm me in any way.
“The RSPCA who we work with are equally unconcerned.

“However the condition in which he is travelling does concern me.
“The fact he travels in a van, it’s the space in which he sleeps. It’s small.

The pony’s owner, who hails from near Llandeilo, Carmarthenshire, said Taffy was only on the road for 10% of his life.
“Ninety percent of his time is spent at home,” said Mr Blyth, who says he spent 36 years as a regular and reserve soldier in the Welsh Guards and other units.
“He’s well looked after and well cared for.
“He gets plenty of hay and horse food and water.
I would say very robustly the concerns are very unfounded.”

Mr Blyth said his company mainly performed military “re-enactments” in summer and he only took Taffy out in the van in winter.
“People can have their photos taken with us and it costs nothing,” he continued.
“But by and large they put a donation in my bucket. It’s my living.”
VIDEO    http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/welfare-probe-launched-llandudno-pony-11107956 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/welfare-probe-launched-llandudno-pony-11107956)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on April 09, 2016, 12:28:54 PM
Somewhat wet at West Shore this morning !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on April 09, 2016, 12:43:04 PM
It must have been a very high tide to go over the top of those sandbanks.      ;D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on April 09, 2016, 03:57:48 PM
That was like that the other day the grid will be blocked again ,oh and the sand they cleaned up a few weeks ago well it's coming back over ,,,,when will they ever learn and listen .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on April 09, 2016, 10:48:00 PM
I don't know much about where the surface water outputs are in Llandudno but hope that they are not all on the West Shore.   Those street drains there are blocked with the sand and are bound to cause some problems in the future.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blongb on April 10, 2016, 03:55:50 PM
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Somewhat wet at West Shore this morning !

I was up on Invalids Walk this morning Nem and what I think your photo shows is fresh water that has over topped the boating lake after the heavy rain
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on April 11, 2016, 09:05:01 AM
Yes the lake was lapping over the edges of the lake, but that photo was quite a distance in the other direction, so it must have travelled !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on April 11, 2016, 09:29:49 AM
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Yes the lake was lapping over the edges of the lake, but that photo was quite a distance in the other direction, so it must have travelled !
As Norman says, it's a simple matter of the drains along that section (which is nearer the West Shore Cafe than the Yacht Pond) being completely blocked with sand.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Gwynant on April 11, 2016, 09:46:26 AM
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Yes the lake was lapping over the edges of the lake, but that photo was quite a distance in the other direction, so it must have travelled !
As Norman says, it's a simple matter of the drains along that section (which is nearer the West Shore Cafe than the Yacht Pond) being completely blocked with sand.
          I agree Dave, (and Norman), I often ride down the West Shore on my bike and after a prolonged period of heavy rain there is always a "pond" there and the size varies according the intensity of the recent rain. There are some big cast-iron grids submerged in it which are blocked so there is no chance of the water getting away, but it has come from the sky not the sea!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on April 11, 2016, 11:58:38 AM
Even when the water in the boating lake was like this I don't think that the water was able to get on to that stretch of the promenade
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on April 11, 2016, 01:04:04 PM
If I remember rightly in the area shown with standing water there used to be a drain allowing water to run off down the beach.
This was in the 1970/80's and a light would come on to warn you, then the gate would open with a loud bang and the water would be released. Whether this happened in daylight I am not sure but it certainly did late at night when I used to walk the dog along there.
I also recall alot of work took place on the grassed area between the Sandringham and the Car park sometime in the 1990's, whether this was to overcome drainage problems I am not sure. It went on for a long time so must have been expensive.
 Since my father died in 1992 my visits to Llandudno are now only every 18 months or so.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: pebbles on April 13, 2016, 12:33:49 AM
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As I approached my car I noticed a large white CCBC parked in the road and saw a reference on the side of the van about dog owners
getting fined, which seemed ironic when the van was parked entirely on a bus stop.   There was so many other parking spaces on the road, why would they choose a bus stop to park?

That bus stop always gets parked in - there isn't actually a bus sign etc and hasn't been for a few years now, when we go in the summer we always park just behind or in front of it just in case (scaredypants about being fined for being in a "bus stop" just in case!!) but then someone always pulls up and takes the bus stop space.
The road markings haven't been painted for a few years, and no sign (ie post with bus numbers on).

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on April 13, 2016, 10:34:52 AM
I didn't want to take any chances either and parked my car outside of those old bus markings.    The Traffic Wardens in Conwy County have been known to park their vehicle on double yellow lines just so that they could book other motorists parking illegally! 
I'll still give that area a wide berth though just in case things change
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on May 09, 2016, 06:45:43 PM
It was such a beautiful day that I had a walk along the West Shore to where the Black Rocks were.  As I was crossing the car park I overheard four elderly people talking  and they said that some time ago they had tried to walk to Deganwy but had to turn back because of the sand.
I knew that they had very recently cleared the sand on the cycle track so I wanted to see what it was like now. and I did see one or two cyclists cycling on the track but not very far as the sand has come back on to the track.
It's a great spot for families and there were quite a few there making the most  of the lovely weather but it's not the place for a cycle track.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on May 10, 2016, 08:49:43 AM
We did the walk from West Shore to Conwy along that path on Sunday morning, was fantastic in the sunshine.  $good$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Mr Tunnock on July 03, 2016, 07:16:30 PM
I came across this on a web site.
The cost of clearing the West Shore of sand,


Dear Sir/Madam

Please find below information in response to your Freedom of Information request.

• Could you please tell me who is responsible for keeping the West Shore Cycle Path clear?

Environment Roads & Facilities department of Conwy County Borough Council.

• What cost is it to the council to clear the path on a yearly basis

The annual cost for sand clearance will vary dependent on environmental conditions. In 2015/16, the total cost for sand clearance on public highways, pavements, promenade, boating lake and coastal path at West Shore was £31,505.63. We do not hold information regarding costs specific to the coastal path.

• Is any money rebated back to the council from outside bodies?

Wales Coast Path grant has contributed £3419.94 so far last financial year to the sand clearance at West Shore. The grant is 75% from Natural Resource Wales and 25% from Conwy.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/west_shore_cycle_path (https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/west_shore_cycle_path)


Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: pebbles on July 25, 2016, 11:29:51 AM
Anyone know if the plans to turn all of west shore / gloddeth / abbey road, etc etc into pay and display parking has gone through? I know the public consultation was a couple of weeks ago, but haven't heard any more.. Scrapping free parking on West Shore would be a huge mistake :(
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on July 25, 2016, 11:56:55 AM
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Anyone know if the plans to turn all of west shore / gloddeth / abbey road, etc etc into pay and display parking has gone through? I know the public consultation was a couple of weeks ago, but haven't heard any more.. Scrapping free parking on West Shore would be a huge mistake

"A group of Councillors to look independently into the fairness of the plans and should they be introduced, and to report back in August"

"Before they had chance to report back, members of the cabinet committee emailed the Councillors telling them that these plans should be introduced."

These quotes from Councillor Saville's recent leaflet

 
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: pkevin on July 26, 2016, 09:44:43 AM
Cabinet Committee behaving the same as EU bureaucrats, i.e. stuff democracy and do what we say.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on August 02, 2016, 03:43:11 PM
It's seems a while since I was on the West Shore so I had a look there today.      The steps all seem to have gone now and that's before the Winter storms that will  come in a few months time.
The White Rabbit pond has now been paved over and there appears to have been some decorative planting done since I last came here.         &shake&
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on August 02, 2016, 04:27:30 PM
" some decorative planting done since I last came here."................... :laugh:

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: OrmeMac on August 02, 2016, 05:16:28 PM
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The White Rabbit pond has now been paved over and there appears to have been some decorative planting done since I last came here.         &shake&

Shame they haven't moved the Town Trail sign to the new location for the White Rabbit statue...
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on August 07, 2016, 05:50:06 PM
It has been blustery  here all day but the forecast from 10.00 pm tonight is for the wind speeds to increase and be in excess of 40 mph.
I dread to think what the West Shore area will look like tomorrow morning  but on the other hand  it does keep people in regular employment. 
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on August 07, 2016, 06:50:45 PM
"it does keep people in regular employment." ?

I thought that was the problem, Hugo, nobody clearing the sand.     :(    a bit like your comment the other day "The White Rabbit pond has now been paved over and there appears to have been some decorative planting done"  that made me chuckle.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on August 07, 2016, 11:06:14 PM
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I thought that was the problem, Hugo, nobody clearing the sand.     :(    a bit like your comment the other day "The White Rabbit pond has now been paved over and there appears to have been some decorative planting done"  that made me chuckle.

And there lies the problem Steve.   The sand is coming over the wall quicker than they are clearing it.
The experts are clearing the sand from around the lake and just depositing it over the wall and this in their expert opinion is actually solving the problem.
I would appreciate your help in conducting a scientific experiment on this, as in my humble opinion I believe that their theory has some flaws in it.
Now here's how you can help, but only under the cover of darkness I may add.    If you stand on the sea wall facing Anglesey and the prevailing wind, have a pee and tell me the results of your experiment.         ;D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on August 08, 2016, 07:23:30 AM
Sand and wind, eh? Perhaps CCBC should send a study group out to Saudi Arabia and the Emirates for a couple of weeks to see how they deal with it.  $good$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on August 08, 2016, 10:57:38 AM
Hugo can you remember the sand being a problem before they messed about ,,,1 taking the sand dunes away to put that stupid cycle Path there ,2 them two Boulder groynes in the middle and cover all the steps up ,as I can always remember the sand been wet on that beach ,not the fine sand there now .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on August 08, 2016, 05:07:56 PM
There was no problem with sand on the West Shore  or flooding for that matter in the area from the Toll House to the car park  from when the sea defence was built in the early 1950's until the early 1990's when the idiots that be created the ecological disaster that we now see.
In fact I had a letter from CCBC  that admitted  that there was a lack of sand by the sea defence that made them engage "expert" consultants to come up with a new sea defence.
You are spot on with your description of the sand there, it was hard and wet, whereas the sand by the Black rocks was dry and soft
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on August 10, 2016, 08:05:08 AM
It was a nice sunny day on the West Shore yesterday and it was good to see the visitors enjoying themselves.  I was admiring the scenery when I remembered that there was a notice board for visitors near the boating lake but couldn't see it at first until I saw something protruding from this raised flower bed.
I went around to the other side and lo and behold the notice board was there.   All it needs now is another sign saying "beware of Thistles"
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on August 10, 2016, 06:17:10 PM
Steve,  I forgot to mention that there was an element of risk in that scientific experiment I was talking about and it has been known to backfire on some participating people, often with disastrous results.
I assume that you haven't gone ahead with the test, but at least it has proved a couple of things:-
a)    You are an intelligent person
b)    You are definitely not a CCBC  Councillor
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on August 10, 2016, 07:08:26 PM
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Steve,  I forgot to mention that there was an element of risk in that scientific experiment I was talking about and it has been known to backfire on some participating people, often with disastrous results.
I assume that you haven't gone ahead with the test, but at least it has proved a couple of things:-
a)    You are an intelligent person
b)    You are definitely not a CCBC  Councillor
Hugo, Sorry for the delay, but trying to get an EU  $eu funded grant, for UK experiments these days >?>??
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on August 11, 2016, 08:10:48 AM
Nice one Steve       _))*
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on September 29, 2016, 12:59:40 PM
The West Shore was wild and windy today and anyone walking along the promenade today would have been sandblasted.  I put on glasses for protection while taking the photos as it was so bad.
At least one person seemed to be enjoying the conditions.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: PhilMick on September 29, 2016, 02:12:58 PM
I miss it often.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on September 29, 2016, 02:36:01 PM
You wouldn't miss it today PhilMick.  I saw the surfer and parked the car by the lake and went out to take a photo but the sand was so bad I returned to the car to get a coat and glasses and even then I walked along the road to the Toll Gate to avoid the sand.
The photos were taken at a distance as there was no way I was going near the top of the lake where the sand was blowing over.
On a calm sunny day though it is lovely place to go to.     $good$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: PhilMick on September 29, 2016, 03:45:52 PM
Walking around Trentham lake here just doesn't match up - my complexion needs a little  sandblasting now and again.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on September 30, 2016, 01:36:52 PM
I didn't mention this yesterday, but when I got home from the West Shore my ear was full of sand so I had to wash all the sand out with a shower hose.
It sounds funny but it's not really for those people living in that area who are affected by the sand.   It's an ecological disaster that is man made but could be stopped now if only the experts on the CCBC  would admit that they have made a mistake.       >?>??

I don't know when you lived in Llandudno PhilMick   but I've posted two photos from the same spot.  One was taken before the sea defence in 1993 and the other one after.  Can you tell which one is which?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: PhilMick on September 30, 2016, 04:06:45 PM
I see your point.

I new that there had been a problem but I hadn't realised it was that bad.

Has any remedial work been done to improve matters - I think I know the answer to that.

I'll be in town tomorrow and the weather forecast looks foul. We usuallly walk the length of the West Shore weather permitting.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on September 30, 2016, 04:13:28 PM
Llandudno mayor Cllr Carol Marubbi is urging Conwy County Borough Council to clean the boating lake on the town’s West Shore.
She said: “There is swan and seagull excrement in there, and even a carcass the other day. It needs cleaning out, seagulls carry a bacteria which can cause conjunctivitus and if people are walking around and getting it on their shoes it’s unacceptable.
“It looks awful and is dangerous to the health of people and animals. I’ve been concerned about this for some time.
”We’ve reported it three times but it is down to the county council. “It’s a mess and it’s a health and safety issue.”

West Shore resident Jane Mater also complained about the state of the attraction.
She said: “It’s the mess and the amount of litter and feathers. It doesn’t give a good impression to visitors, it should be cleared more often. If it was on the North Shore I’m sure it would be cleared more.
“In the six and a half years I’ve been here it seems to have gone down in the last four years. There doesnt seem to be much effort in litter picking by the council.”

A spokesperson for Conwy Council said: “The boating lake is emptied and cleaned once a year before the Easter holidays ready for the summer season and path cleaning takes place regularly.
”Litter picking is carried out every day, however, it’s everyone’s responsibility to keep Conwy a clean and attractive place.”   refPioneer

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on September 30, 2016, 06:28:14 PM
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I see your point.

I new that there had been a problem but I hadn't realised it was that bad.

Has any remedial work been done to improve matters - I think I know the answer to that.

I'll be in town tomorrow and the weather forecast looks foul. We usuallly walk the length of the West Shore weather permitting.


I hope that you enjoy your visit to the town and that the weather is better than you expect.  There is a nice walk from the car park and cafe on the West Shore across the sand hills to where the old Black Rocks used to be.      Let us know if you can see a cycle track there as I'm told that there was one there once upon a time!          ;D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Dave on September 30, 2016, 06:53:10 PM
There's a business opportunity here for someone....camel rides.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on September 30, 2016, 07:05:09 PM
 _))* _))* _))*
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: PhilMick on September 30, 2016, 07:31:22 PM
I hope that you enjoy your visit to the town and that the weather is better than you expect.  There is a nice walk from the car park and cafe on the West Shore across the sand hills to where the old Black Rocks used to be.      Let us know if you can see a cycle track there as I'm told that there was one there once upon a time! 


We've decided to take the train excursion - it's handy for the cafe.

It's a nice circular journey and there's no need to change or get off.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: PhilMick on October 01, 2016, 07:00:31 PM
After visiting Llanrhos cemetery in the pouring rain and then getting wet again in town we retired to Debenham's for breakfast. Then retreated along the A55 under attack from heavy rain until eventually driven back into England to find refuge at home in Staffordshire - raining here too though. Ah well - this time next week we'll be in the rain in Turkey for a fortnight.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on October 02, 2016, 08:19:57 AM
Well, enjoy Turkey, anyway.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on October 10, 2016, 09:14:08 AM
Went for a walk along the cycle path from West Shore to Conwy yesterday morning. Once again, the section from West Shore to the first corner is completely blocked with sand - almost 6 foot of it in some places. So, we walked on the beach instead.  :D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 10, 2016, 10:35:48 AM
The route of the Conwy Half Marathon on 20th November 2016 runs along the West Shore and then returns back along it to Conwy.   Should be a feat of endurance for the runners.   
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on November 25, 2016, 04:13:32 PM
The Conwy Half Marathon held last Saturday had to be rerouted because the West Shore cycle path had not been cleared of sand.    It's probably just as well that the race was run on the main road as the 3,000  plus runners would have had to go single file down the cycle path.
I thought that I'd go and see the cycle track for myself and DaveR was spot on with his description of the cycle track
It's time that CCBC got their act together and abandoned any idea of a cycle track on the West Shore as it has gone beyond a joke now.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blongb on November 25, 2016, 04:26:35 PM
We could do with that sand on the North Shore
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: PhilMick on November 25, 2016, 05:02:37 PM
I was stunned at the lack of sand on the North Shore last weekend.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on November 25, 2016, 05:16:14 PM
You two could always volunteer to move the sand from the West Shore to the North  Shore and then bring those rocks back on your return journey.    ;D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Dave on November 25, 2016, 05:46:53 PM
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What it actually means is that the mechanism accepts all coins but doesn't give change. So you could put a 50p or £1 in and that would be the charge.
Doesn't take notes though, especially IOU's!

Incidentally I had occasion to need the loo whilst walking past Haulfre Gardens yesterday. A credit to the town , they are free and kept in immaculate condition but I presume that is the cafe's doing not the council.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: PhilMick on November 25, 2016, 06:01:28 PM
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You two could always volunteer to move the sand from the West Shore to the North  Shore and then bring those rocks back on your return journey.    ;D

Just put a coastal bike path along the beach on the north shore - that'll do it  D)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 05, 2017, 09:21:36 AM
Yesterday, we had a walk along the sand dunes on the West Shore as we wanted to see the Snow Buntings that had been seen at the Southern end of the dunes.  When we got to the Black Rocks area there were a number of photographers there with cameras mounted on tripods and lenses like bazookas but no Snow Buntings!    We carried on past the last Groyne and did see some of these small birds but they were too far away to photograph so we walked back along the dunes and had a short walk on the Great Orme.
The sand along the cycle track has built up again and there is now no sign of the track,  apart from a depression in the sand where Tellytubby is standing in the photo.
Will CCBC want to clear the sand again?    I just hope that commonsense will prevail and they abandon that project.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Dave on January 05, 2017, 05:06:33 PM
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Yesterday, we had a walk along the sand dunes on the West Shore as we wanted to see the Snow Buntings that had been seen at the Southern end of the dunes.  When we got to the Black Rocks area there were a number of photographers there with cameras mounted on tripods and lenses like bazookas but no Snow Buntings!    We carried on past the last Groyne and did see some of these small birds but they were too far away to photograph

Now you know why you need a Bazooka !
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/1/461/31282509644_5c90cb8afd_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PEk3fy)Stretch (https://flic.kr/p/PEk3fy) by Dave Williams (https://www.flickr.com/photos/131256186@N04/), on Flickr
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on January 05, 2017, 06:05:56 PM
What a great photo.....  $good$  at first I could not see the whole picture, I am only using a small tablet at the moment, but when I touched the screen it zoomed in out, up down.....the detail is fantastic.......  $thanx$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 05, 2017, 06:53:42 PM
That's a cracking photo Dave.     $good$        Are you the Dave who posted some photos of Llyn Geirionydd on here a few years ago?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Dave on January 05, 2017, 08:04:54 PM
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That's a cracking photo Dave.     $good$        Are you the Dave who posted some photos of Llyn Geirionydd on here a few years ago?
Yep !
and thanks both for the nice remarks.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on January 05, 2017, 08:43:09 PM
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That's a cracking photo Dave.     $good$        Are you the Dave who posted some photos of Llyn Geirionydd on here a few years ago?
Yep !
and thanks both for the nice remarks.
I would be interested in seeing those photos Dave, as I lived by the lake in the 80s/90s I have searched but no luck can you please point me to the thread, Ta.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Dave on January 05, 2017, 09:58:01 PM
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That's a cracking photo Dave.     $good$        Are you the Dave who posted some photos of Llyn Geirionydd on here a few years ago?
Yep !
and thanks both for the nice remarks.
I would be interested in seeing those photos Dave, as I lived by the lake in the 80s/90s I have searched but no luck can you please point me to the thread, Ta.

They are not that good!
http://threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,33.msg79129.html#msg79129 (http://threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,33.msg79129.html#msg79129)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 05, 2017, 10:20:44 PM
Not that good.      :o      they are brilliant Dave.     
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on January 06, 2017, 12:32:02 AM
Dave, As Hugo says brilliant,  I loved my time living up there, and its nice to your photos, my photos were taken on an  Instamatic :(                        thanks for the link.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: hollins on January 06, 2017, 04:04:55 PM
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Not that good.      :o      they are brilliant Dave.     

I agree with Hugo. Brilliant. You are very modest Dave. I can always remember your stunning photos of the big ship in Liverpool dock. I think you are the same Dave!

I love this one.....No Crop with PP-3 on your Flickr page. Such beautiful soft colours. It would make a beautiful card.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Dave on January 06, 2017, 05:18:32 PM
Thanks Hollins, you are too kind.
The ship was the Queen Mary 2, I found the post when I was looking for the Crafnant ones.
http://threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7.msg35734.html#msg35734 (http://threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7.msg35734.html#msg35734)
It was a stunning sight from the relatively small Mersey Ferry.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Dave on January 06, 2017, 05:23:36 PM
Anyway, sorry for taking the whole of the West Shore issue off topic.
I think it's a lost cause too which is a shame because it has been a superb link up with the existing cycle track not only for bicycles but walkers too.I always feel sorry for residents of West Shore who face having their gardens full of sand every time the wind blows.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: PhilMick on January 06, 2017, 06:37:22 PM
My mother in law, Amy, who lived in Mowbray Road until 2015 (she moved in during 1926 with her family when she was 8), often reminsced about how the west shore sandhills used to come up to the back gate. Obvioulsly long before Bryniau Road. She never mentioned the sand coming into garden in those days.

Does anyone know when Bryniau Road's houses were built?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 06, 2017, 10:32:15 PM
I don't know when the Bryniau Road houses were built but some of the houses on the western side of Bryniau Road back on to the North Wales Golf Club where I've played golf a few times many years ago.   Most of the course is built on sand and I've copied an extract on the course for you.

The course was founded in 1894 by Tancred D Cummins, from Bowden in Cheshire, who was a prominent Manchester cotton businessman. He first saw the land at Christmas in 1893. At that time it was composed of sand hills and valleys running West to East formed by the prevailing Westerly winds, which still blow, as many a golfer has found to his cost.

I can however remember sand hills also being where the cafe and car park and miniature railway are now but the land was cleared for building some time ago
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: PhilMick on January 07, 2017, 07:48:11 AM
My wife and I used to walk to the beach frm the western end of Trinity Avenue, over Bryniau Road, passed the white cottage on the right, onto the gap of waste land alongside the sandhills. It was always wet and muddy.

Incidently, the white cottage was later bought by my wife's cousin, Freddie Kavanagh. I believe he was a very talented chef who later went onto manage the Royal Oak in Betws y Coed for many years.

Amy also used to reminisce about the Flying Foam foundering on the beach at West Shore. She and her friends were sent down to collect as much coal as they could. I believe it was lost in 1936. I noticed that the Cottage Loaf has a sign that states that some of its timbers in the building came from the Flying Foam.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 07, 2017, 11:55:26 AM
You could always tell when there had been a very high tide on the West Shore because the sea breached the shingle bar and formed a small salt water lake on the dunes at the end of Trinity Avenue.

Funny you should mention the Flying Foam because my mother who lived in the Penmorfa Cottages  (Min Y Don)  was also sent out by my Taid to collect coal from the ship.  The owners must have got wise to that because I've seen a photo of a group of men moving coal from the wreck.

The timbers from the ship were originally used in Dunphy's warehouse in Market Street but when that got demolished and the Cottage Loaf was built they were recycled there
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 07, 2017, 12:27:25 PM
Dave,  it's only an observation because your photos are so good, but I noticed that you had not put your name on the photo.
It's not just the copyright thing but if anyone does copy it then other people will see it but you won't get the credit for it.
DaveR  one of the Administrators on here has had that happen to him and it's not fair to either of you.

I have a walking friend who just uses cheap Olympus compact cameras but he can produce excellent quality photos from them and on one photo I would not download it for him until he put his name to it.    It was so good anyone could have used it for a postcard or calendar
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 17, 2017, 10:57:45 PM
I was reading the NWWN this week and noticed a small article on coastal maintenance taking place on the West Shore this month.    This includes the removal of blown sand from the promenade area, the cycle path,  boating pond and nearby residential streets.   The work is scheduled to take about three weeks during which the cycle track would be closed       :o
The Contractor Jennings and the Council will be in regular contact with each other to ensure that disruption is kept to a minimum.

Now I am not an expert on coastal maintenance, unlike Councillor Dave Cowans the CCBC  Member for the Environment and Jennings the contractor but I still feel a bit cynical over CCBC's handling over the sand problems on the West Shore. 
Removing sand from the stated areas is one thing but where to put it is another.   As both of them are fully aware, blown sand can only be put back onto the beach below the high water mark if they have obtained a licence from DEFRA to do it.
As for the cycle track it's no use just piling the sand on the western side of the cycle track as that will be blown back onto the track and that won't take as long as three weeks.
I'm sure that the experts won't make the same mistakes again and could even finish the work on 1st April
Sand removed from the cycle track should also be deposited below the high water mark
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on March 18, 2017, 10:30:54 AM
Hugo have you ever stood and watched them clearing the cycle path ,if not you would have a good  _))* _))* _))* ,they just pile it up sea side to blow back , if you were in charge would you have done the work when storms were forecast ,don't you dare say yes  _))*, I would love to know how much Jennings have made from this cycle path fiasco (  Would anyone in sane mind create a cycle path there knowing it's fine sand ) ,, don't tell me it's not a pals game ,, talking to one of the lads one time even he laughed and said keeps me in work ,,it's ok only our council tax wasted . :rage:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 18, 2017, 12:19:58 PM
All I can say Norman is that we should be glad that the CCBC don't run all the pubs in Llandudno.      It's not the Panto season but it is just a farce like one of those Carry On films.

Look at the first photo and you'll see that they have dumped the sand above the high water mark and they keep doing it again and again after each clearance.  It's just crazy, I had a look there the other day and part of the beach is now above the top of the defence wall.    We can see what damage is being caused to streets and property there but it's what we can't see that bothers me.  Could those drains cope with another flood?

As for the "cycle track"  they should have asked a local about the wisdom of putting the track there in the first place (sorry about the pun Norman )      It's exactly as you said, they heap the sand on the western side of the path but surely with a prevailing westerly wind where do they expect the sand to go?        In the second photo, my friend Tellytubby is standing on the top of the cycle track and it gives you an idea of how bad the problem is.   It'll be interesting to take a before and after photo of the cycle track but we'll have to be quick as the track won't be visible for long.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 19, 2017, 09:23:21 AM
It's a bit windy today so I hope that Jennings have not cleared the sand yet because it will be on its way back again.
Nice little earner there for the firm, just like the Forth Bridge.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on March 19, 2017, 10:38:20 AM
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It's a bit windy today so I hope that Jennings have not cleared the sand yet because it will be on its way back again.
Nice little earner there for the firm, just like the Forth Bridge.
I was going to make a cheeky comment....at least they have managed to sort out the problem of the Forth bridge and the problem..... finish at one end, start again, however after checking the facts, I dont think we want CCBC to go along the same route........

The painting of the Forth Bridge has finally been completed and the structure is now scaffold-free for the first time in a decade.
The repair and repainting project to paint the rail bridge took 10 years and cost £130m.
It has been claimed it will not now need another paint job for at least 25 years. New techniques and products are behind the project's success.
A 400-strong team applied a triple layer of new glass flake epoxy paint.
It creates a chemical bond to provide a virtually impenetrable layer to protect the bridge's steel work from the weather.
The project, delivered by Network Rail and main contractor Balfour Beatty Regional Civil Engineering, involved encasing the bridge in up to 4,000 tonnes of scaffolding, painting over 230,000sqm of steel and all 6.5 million rivets in the structure.
Over the life of the project more than 1,500 people worked on the structure, with up to 400 people a day on the bridge at the height of the refurbishment works.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 20, 2017, 02:20:50 PM
Some of those metal posts on the West Shore promenade could use that paint you have described Steve because on the seaward side of the posts the paint has been sand blasted.    I was there about mid day and should have taken a photo of the back of one of those posts.
Some work on the sand clearance was going on in the boating lake but not much elsewhere.    It was very windy there but the workmen were lucky because it had rained today so the sand was heavier than usual and did not blow about as it usually does.    Those guys were lucky or they could have been sand blasted too.
Once the blown sand is removed I wonder where on the beach they will deposit it,  surely they won't be stupid enough to pile it up above the high water mark, or will they?        &shake&
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on March 20, 2017, 03:35:32 PM
Hi Hugo did you see where they were putting that sand from the lake ,as that has to go away because it's contaminated ,did you notice if they were clearing the cycle path 😂
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 20, 2017, 03:41:13 PM
Hi Norman,   I didn't wait around to see where they deposited the sand from the lake but I'll be back there again soon to have a look.   I couldn't see any work going on at the cycle track so I didn't walk along to the sandhills.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: llandudnotrust on March 20, 2017, 04:17:23 PM
No work on the cycle track yet
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 20, 2017, 04:22:28 PM
I couldn't see any when I was by the boating lake today but when it's cleared cyclists will have to make the most of it because it won't be cleared for long.        *cycle*

                                   *tumble*
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on March 21, 2017, 08:42:34 AM
We walked along from West Shore to Conwy last week and were amazed at how well Nature had landscaped the cycle path back to its original state.  :laugh:

Seriously, we need to stop wasting taxpayers money on moving sand around pointlessly. Just face the fact that the area is a sand dune and leave it alone.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 21, 2017, 09:27:03 AM
It is a nice walk along the soft sand from the car park up to where the Black Rocks used to be and I've seen many families having a great time there in the Summer months.
It's a place for sandhills as nature intended and the idea of a cycle track should now be scrapped.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on March 21, 2017, 09:55:23 AM
Some cyclists prepare for  the sand on the cycle path.....
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on April 04, 2017, 03:50:17 PM
With Easter just around the corner I thought that I'd have a stroll on the cycle path at the West Shore and see how the sand clearance is coming along.  After taking a few photos I returned to the car park but before getting to the car park I stopped to admire the sculpture of the Open Sky -West Shore Shelter, a long low curve of bronze set into the ground.
It's so reassuring to know that CCBC are investing our money so wisely
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on April 04, 2017, 04:00:15 PM
Thanks for the update, looks an expensive operation, men, machines and the time involved, I agree with DaveR.....
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Seriously, we need to stop wasting taxpayers money on moving sand around pointlessly. Just face the fact that the area is a sand dune and leave it alone.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on April 04, 2017, 04:57:07 PM
Steve, just in case you are like myself one of the many who doesn't understand the meaning of the sculpture this is it's creative meaning.   It has been translated from the Arty Farty language into English so that we can appreciate the thought that went into this masterpiece.

By the way when I asked the CCBC for the annual cost of sand clearance on the West Shore I was told that it was just over £3K.      That's a bargain considering all the men and machinery involved, that's if their reply under the FOI Act was correct   &shake&
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on April 04, 2017, 06:05:22 PM
Thanks H. your skepticism over the costs, I think is justified, no way is whats happening now costs £3000, how long has the work been going on ?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on April 04, 2017, 06:37:19 PM
I'm not sure Steve as I haven't been there since the 20th March and they were clearing the boating lake then.   There's a lot more to clear on the cycle path though as they are only about half way to where the Black Rocks used to be.

I think someone in the CCBC told me porkies but that's probably to save them any embarrassment with their man made disaster.
By the way it was a bit windy there but nothing compared to how it can be and I made the mistake of not taking protective glasses with me but I could see the sand blowing back already.     :o
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on June 08, 2017, 12:26:36 PM
I had a nice short walk along part of the cycle track yesterday and walked as far as the old Black Rocks area.    It was a lovely sunny day but very windy but thankfully the sand was not blowing about too much.
It's a lovely stretch of the beach to walk along and the cycle track was visible for a bit of the way but the sand is encroaching again and it won't be long before it covers the track.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on June 09, 2017, 08:40:48 AM
I never understand how, at a time of supposed shortage of cash at CCBC, money is always found to spend on clearing the sand away pointlessly?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on June 09, 2017, 10:31:52 AM
Providing it's not too windy, it's a lovely place for families to go to and it should stay like that and let nature take it's course
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 03, 2017, 03:26:47 PM
No worries about having to cut the grass on the West Shore this Winter
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blongb on October 03, 2017, 07:30:22 PM
 $walesflag$  If there's too much sand on the West Shore Hugo we could always ask the Council to dump it on the North Shore.  $walesflag$
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 03, 2017, 10:59:28 PM
I've actually asked them to do it and they replied that they would consider the suggestion    $good$

BUT that was before they dumped the quarry waste on the North Shore beach        :'(
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on October 04, 2017, 09:26:02 PM
I reckon they blow that sand over to keep Jennings in work
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Robbie G on October 05, 2017, 07:49:11 PM
Thanks for the info on the sand problem on the West Shore , I do sympathise with the residents can you imagine what damage this sand is doing to your property and your car how do you keep it from blowing under your roof tiles , why did the CCBC allow it to happen ? has anybody admitted that they made a mistake . I sometimes despair at the schemes and ideas put forward by the council and the so called professionals .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on October 05, 2017, 08:20:22 PM
After this week the sand is even worse, my car was covered with a film of the stuff and we live 3/4 mile away.

It was also so far into the boating lake that the swans looked to be standing on top of the water as there was only an inch of it left. The rest was sand.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 05, 2017, 09:07:57 PM
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Thanks for the info on the sand problem on the West Shore , I do sympathise with the residents can you imagine what damage this sand is doing to your property and your car how do you keep it from blowing under your roof tiles , why did the CCBC allow it to happen ? has anybody admitted that they made a mistake . I sometimes despair at the schemes and ideas put forward by the council and the so called professionals .

It's a man made environmental disaster that should never have been allowed to happen.    Locals told the Council what the consequences would be but they didn't listen.  Consultants were employed and came up with a sea defence that has backfired spectacularly and instead of paying these consultants a big fat fee they should have sued them instead.  Unfortunately the nodding donkeys at CCBC backed the idea and we are left with what you see now.
They have not and probably will not admit that they dropped a monumental clanger here
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 05, 2017, 09:46:45 PM
Just as an add on Robbie G there was an article in the local paper about a man who had a nursing home on the West Shore front.  The house has now been demolished and town houses built on the site.
I had a chat with him some time after the article was published in the paper and he told me that 10 ton of sand had to be removed from his front garden and in addition he had about two inches of sand on the floor of his attic that had blown in.  The sand lay above the ceilings of the bedrooms of his residents.
This problem only started after the lunatics gave the go ahead for the new sea defence
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on October 06, 2017, 08:12:52 AM
Quote
CCBC backed the idea and we are left with what you see now.
They have not and probably will not admit that they dropped a monumental clanger here

But they learnt - which is why they dumped rubble instead of sand on the North Shore.  :) :) :)

In fact, dealing with 'consultants' is akin to herding fish. They never state anything as absolutes, or give guarantees. They will always say 'should' and 'hopefully', so suing them isn't an option.  The other side of the coin is that we can bet anything that CCBC will not have opted for the recommended scheme, since they would want to keep costs to a minimum.

Even given the council's  natural proclivity for not spending money where it matters, or for those councillors who manage to stay awake during meetings not to exert their somewhat rudimentary intellects in questioning the scheme's proposals, one would have thought at least one person might have raised the point about the prevailing winds.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on October 17, 2017, 09:00:30 PM
How is West Shore looking after Mondays storm ?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Mike on October 19, 2017, 07:21:39 PM
THe sand used to move along with the wave action in the deganwy direction but because of the stone groynes it cant, so there is a net loss at Deganwy and the main beach in front of the Deganwy promenade where the Kiosk is now no longer sandy, the beach level drops exposing the foudations of the promenade and then resulted in the waves hydraulic pressure getting under the prom and blowing it away hence the need for a new section of promenade at huge cost.
Even new stones were purchased for Deganwy beach (cost £30-50K IIRC) as Natural resoures wales said the vegatation (weeds) in the stones and tarmac bits from where it had eroded couldnt be disturbed. Net result £40k ish to keep the weeds..
The beach level is still dropping at deganwy as the stones bought have now also moved along but not been replenished by material drifing along from West Shore and the foundations of the next section of promenade are now partly exposed.
If they took the groynes away maybe it would all sort itself out naturally.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 19, 2017, 11:11:10 PM
That's interesting to hear what you have to say about the beach and I'm sorry that it has happened in Deganwy.     Those experts on the sea defence don't seem to learn from their repeated mistakes.
The incoming tide on the West Shore races past the Great Orme and the wooden groynes used to stem and also filter the flow of water coming along the shoreline.
When the incoming tide reached the sand hills the flow must have slowed down and deposited some sand there and the Black rocks would have also reduced the power of the incoming tide going to Deganwy.
It's not nature that has caused the problems, it's a man made disaster.   Locals forecast what would happen when they did the sea defence and sadly they have been proved right.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on October 20, 2017, 08:35:26 AM
Could be interesting this weekend with another storm and Spring tides plus a lot of rain, I believe.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: spotty dog on October 20, 2017, 12:09:33 PM
I think we must look beyond just the stone breakwater ,the tunnel dredging has changed the river flow and direction coupled with the local authority pontoons which has slowed down the ebb tide.I went for a walk to the perch nav light the other day ,and noticed the beach level had dropped by at least 3feet , revealing an old fishing Weir.I was born at West Shore and looking at old family photos sand Inthe gardens was a problem then.Its not a simple fix I'm afraid.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 20, 2017, 12:24:38 PM
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How is West Shore looking after Mondays storm ?


I haven't been there recently but Storm Brian is on it's way this weekend and it sounds ominous with  continuous winds of over 50 mph predicted.
We'll have to see what it looks like after that and it's not the Winter Storm season yet       :o
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 20, 2017, 12:52:50 PM
Everyone has their own ideas on the problems with the West Shore and the Conwy River.     One I heard about the Conwy River was that the cob should have been built with a series of arches, that bit is a fact, but people have said that it was done to curtail the transport of materials by water up the Conwy River.
Fact or fiction but it has certainly resulted in the silting up of the River Conwy downstream from the suspension bridge.

Llandudno was naturally sandy by the West Shore before Mostyn Estates "legally" stole the common land  and then sold off the land for house building.     In fact most of the holes on the North Wales Golf Course are on sandy land whereas on Maesdu Golf Club they are mainly clay or other soils.

You know more about the West Shore than I do Spotty Dog but was the sand already there before your house was built or did the sand come after that 1990's sea defence was built, that is the question.
I had a friend who lived down Trinity Avenue in the 1980's and she complained of the sand damaging her car, but the fault was with the North Wales Golf Club who did some work on the course and exposed the sand to the elements and the prevailing westerly wind did the rest

One fact that I know for certain and is irrefutable is that the 1990's sea defence is responsible for the present problems on the West Shore
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 20, 2017, 01:37:50 PM
 :-}}}    Fact or fiction but it has certainly resulted in the silting up of the River Conwy downstream from the suspension bridge.

I meant to say upstream, as the river has silted up to Llanrwst as far as I am aware
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bosun on October 20, 2017, 05:22:22 PM
All semi-enclosed tidal waters (estuaries, harbours, marinas, etc) silt up naturally as a matter of course. On the tidal flood, seawater flows in, and there is a type of flocculation that deposits the suspended solids in the water as silt, and less silt than is deposited is removed when the water flows out with the ebb tide. So, estuaries and harbours have to be dredged to keep them operational. Marinas such as Conwy with no 'flushing' action have to be dredged on a virtually continual basis to maintain any depth. Newquay (mid-Wales) Harbour silted up rapidly and virtually killed off trade for the town. The other point to be noted is that any construction, gryones, harbour walls, anti-flood measures, etc will have an effect to a greater or lesser extent in the erosion or deposition of material in areas other than that of the construction.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 22, 2017, 06:22:50 PM
No one can argue with any thing that you've said Bosun as it is all true, what I will say though is that the present sand problem on the West Shore is man made, or to be more exact a CCBC  blunder.

I had a walk on the West Shore today and I was surprised that Storm Brian hadn't affected the area that much.    The sand was piled up against the sea wall on the promenade as it usually is at this time of year and the paint had been sand blasted off the lamp post but at least the kite surfers were enjoying themselves and making the most of the windy weather.

I had a walk on the cycle track later and noticed that there were no bikes on it and there were no bike tracks on the sand but I'm not surprised as the cycle path that was cleared in April of this year has now disappeared below the drifting sand
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Dave on October 22, 2017, 06:30:29 PM
Interesting shots as I haven't been there for a while. The shot of the sand blasted pole really does highlight the potential damaging effect that a combination of wind and sand then there is salt to throw in to the equation too.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 22, 2017, 06:41:30 PM
Dave, the wind had died down when I was there but it was still quite blowy and there were a number of people there including children who were unaware of the dangers of the blowing sand.
When I went on the promenade I wore protective glasses and an anorak with the hood up as I was taking no chances of getting sand in my eyes or face.    It's a lovely place for a walk, but on a nice calm day
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mondie on October 23, 2017, 08:08:37 AM
I ride the Llandudno-Deganwy path each day as its my commute to work :) Today was the first time in a week I had done so and could not believe how much sand has been dumped over the path, in many places it has completely disappeared under 4ft of sand. It is going to be a rather large excavation job to bring it back to pre-storm condition. I am only new to the area but if the dunes kept migrating inland at this rate and nothing was done, within a year a lot of land would be lost. Presumably, it hasn't always been like this so whatever mitigation works have been done over the years are not working and in fact are detrimental to the health of the sand dunes.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on October 23, 2017, 08:38:25 AM
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I had a walk on the cycle track later and noticed that there were no bikes on it and there were no bike tracks on the sand but I'm not surprised as the cycle path that was cleared in April of this year has now disappeared below the drifting sand
It's been cleared once or twice since then, Hugo, latest was only about 2 weeks ago! We walked along it then and the tyre tracks of the Bobcat they use to clear the sand were visible.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 23, 2017, 08:59:19 AM
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I ride the Llandudno-Deganwy path each day as its my commute to work :) Today was the first time in a week I had done so and could not believe how much sand has been dumped over the path, in many places it has completely disappeared under 4ft of sand. It is going to be a rather large excavation job to bring it back to pre-storm condition. I am only new to the area but if the dunes kept migrating inland at this rate and nothing was done, within a year a lot of land would be lost. Presumably, it hasn't always been like this so whatever mitigation works have been done over the years are not working and in fact are detrimental to the health of the sand dunes.

Welcome to the world of the CCBC Mondie.         &shake&
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 23, 2017, 09:14:53 AM
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I had a walk on the cycle track later and noticed that there were no bikes on it and there were no bike tracks on the sand but I'm not surprised as the cycle path that was cleared in April of this year has now disappeared below the drifting sand
It's been cleared once or twice since then, Hugo, latest was only about 2 weeks ago! We walked along it then and the tyre tracks of the Bobcat they use to clear the sand were visible.

I didn't realise that Dave, that's a nice regular little earner for someone.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on October 23, 2017, 09:23:21 AM
Hugo we know how far down and how good them dunes Where before Ccbc started messing, the sand on them dunes is fine sand so making that path they have over the years lost the dunes ,if the wanted to make a path Why didn't they board it to stop the sand dropping .  Oh by the way Jennings have the contract to clear that path never seen it go out to tender ,wonder why 😡
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 23, 2017, 09:44:47 AM
They should have left the dunes alone, it's ridiculous to have a cycle track there but again the loonies from CCBC haven't listened to the locals who advised against it.
There are stones and rocks on the path now after the storm so they'll need clearing too
Do you fancy putting a tender in Norman to supplement our pensions?    I'm sure that we can do it cheaper than Jennings can
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mondie on October 23, 2017, 12:39:05 PM
In the four months I have ridden the track I would have seen Jennings there at least eight times. Usually, it's an early Monday morning job it seems. Great job security!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 23, 2017, 02:08:34 PM
Jennings,  a job for life
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on October 23, 2017, 03:21:36 PM
Every time I walk along when they are moving the sand I walk along 😂 And shaking my head I know I shouldn't as its my money they are wasting, who in their right mind would just pile the sand up like your pic shows and not realise it would move back 😂😂😡
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mondie on October 23, 2017, 03:35:44 PM
Was that today Hugo? ka-ching!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 23, 2017, 04:54:53 PM
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Was that today Hugo? ka-ching!

No Mondie, those last three photos were taken on 4th April this year when the clean up of all clean ups began.

Just to put you in the picture, whenever they had cleared the sand before, all they did was shovel the sand and dump it alongside the sea side ( the western side) of the cycle track.     Now as you will be familiar with the conditions there, the prevailing wind is Westerly so you don't need to be a marine engineer to know what's going to happen next.
The sand just blew back straight away and the cycle (excuse the pun) of sand clearance just carries on.         &shake&

The CCBC cannot deposit the sand back on the beach below the high water mark unless they first obtain a license from DEFRA and I did suggest to them that they should obtain the license and deposit it a long way away from the path and I'm pleased to see that they did that in April but it hasn't done the trick as we can see by the most recent photos
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mondie on October 23, 2017, 05:31:51 PM
Damn, I was hoping to be able to use the path again tomorrow. Yes they do just push the sand to the sides of the path and seem to make an effort to keep the mounds as high as possible to ensure their return to clear again is not too far away. Is this an example of where modern inefficient political management and process has got us?  >>>
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Merddin Emrys on October 23, 2017, 05:45:42 PM
It's like an archeological dig, but here six feet deep only goes back a week !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Quiggs on October 23, 2017, 11:51:58 PM
I think it’s called Job Creation.   :D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Dave on October 24, 2017, 12:28:33 PM
Looks like it could get worse!!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Blongb on October 24, 2017, 08:09:06 PM
As the path was funded by the National Lottery as part of the Around Britain Cycle Path, then perhaps the Council could request a Grant themselves, to help maintain it.  *cycle*
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on October 27, 2017, 04:05:41 PM
Further to my last post on the subject Barmouth has got problems again. The volume of sand is holding the water on the prom. and road. This was taken last Monday....it was still like this yesterday only slightly drier.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on October 27, 2017, 04:08:31 PM
Mind you...get your priorities right. The digger spent 2 days preparing for this weekend's motor-cross, or whatever it is !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 30, 2018, 02:49:34 PM
I had heard that the West Shore was in a mess again so I popped over this week and had a look.    I noticed that at least one of the houses by the Boating Lake had solid gates so as to try and stop the sand blowing into their drive.
It must be awful for people living in that area now with so much sand in their gardens and not being able to open their windows and the dramatic fall in house prices too.
They can't even park their cars outside or they could suffer the same fate as the metal sign post
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Robbie G on January 30, 2018, 07:28:15 PM
I was also on the West Shore this afternoon Hugo  I travelled up GLoddaeth Ave towards West Shore I have  never seen the sand  deposits so far down the Ave .I feel very sorry for the people who live there it appears to be  a problem for all the residents in that Ares .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 30, 2018, 08:00:28 PM
It's such a shame Robbie and should never have happened.   Just imagine living in a house there and not being able to open the windows because the sand would come in,
I've attached that old photo by the White Rabbit statue just to show people how it was before the 1993 sea defence blighted the area
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on January 31, 2018, 12:09:01 AM
I’m utterly convinced that we have many more very windy day so per year than we ever did.
As a young man I remember maybe one night per year of disturbed sleep as the gales rattled the slates on the roof.
Now, it seems to be twice a week!
Similarly, I’d be interested to see if the cable car owners keep records of this, because for the past 3 years or so, they are hardly ever open.

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on January 31, 2018, 08:20:44 AM
This year and last have developed some unusual weather patterns, but in terms of wind you'd have to look at the frequency and intensity of storms over the past 50 years.

The Met Office maintains stats going back for more than a hundred years and digging out the detail is notoriously time consuming, but some things are fairly clear: the weather and the planet are warming, and that warming brings with it an increase in intense events - such as storms. Having said that, the UK weather remains remarkably consistent, mainly because of two factors: the fact we're an island, so the large amounts of water around us tend to leaven out weather anomalies, and the jet stream hasn't really done a significant shift since records began.   

Llandudno has always been notable for having one of the lowest rainfall figures in the UK and one of the highest average wind speeds. The winds always tend to come from the SW - W, which is why the cable car was built so it's shielded from the worst, other than at the final approach to the summit.

Comparisons with when you were young are not easy to make, since a lot of factors would influence your recollections. Geographical location is one major aspect, while young people tend to sleep more deeply and consistently than those of the older, more mature variety. Also, rattling slates aren't a good indicator since you might have less well-affixed slates here than you did when you lived elsewhere. Don't want to worry you unnecessarily, but one reason slates might rattle in Llandudno is down to the corrosive effects of the salt in the air. Apparently, nails don't last as long here...

Z@@
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: born2run on January 31, 2018, 08:34:40 AM
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I’m utterly convinced that we have many more very windy day so per year than we ever did.
As a young man I remember maybe one night per year of disturbed sleep as the gales rattled the slates on the roof.
Now, it seems to be twice a week!
Similarly, I’d be interested to see if the cable car owners keep records of this, because for the past 3 years or so, they are hardly ever open.

Fester, as a young man surely all the air raid sirens and bombings kept you awake more?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on January 31, 2018, 09:54:07 AM
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I was also on the West Shore this afternoon Hugo  I travelled up GLoddaeth Ave towards West Shore I have  never seen the sand  deposits so far down the Ave .I feel very sorry for the people who live there it appears to be  a problem for all the residents in that Ares .

We are 1/2 way between the 2 shores and have a losing battle to see through the windows, it also blows inside through the extractor fans. Recently we had a ceiling on a loo at the west side of the house fall in. When my OH began to clear up the mess he found 2 sacks of sand all over the floor which had blown into the underdrawing. For a small loo that is a heck of a lot of sand.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on January 31, 2018, 12:34:51 PM
I know that I go on a bit about the sand problems on the West Shore but it's only because I was born in Llandudno and know what it was like before the idiots got their heads together and created the 1993 sea defence which has turned out to be a man made environmental disaster.

This is what it looked like before 1993 and it would have looked like that now if only they had listened to local people at the time
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 08, 2018, 02:26:01 PM
After digging my car out of the snow today I drove to Llandudno and then had a flying visit to the West Shore.    I got out of the car but quickly got back in it as it was so cold so I didn't take any photos.
I noticed that more sand has blown into the gardens opposite the boating lake and that there was a great big puddle on the road that has probably been created because the drains are blocked with sand.   Also the grass, if you can call it that, is now above the level of the retaining wall by the road.
However there was a major operation going on with the sand clearance from the lake and surrounding area.    A dumper loaded with sand was ready for putting it back on the beach.    I didn't stay long enough to see where exactly they were putting it, but CCBC aren't stupid enough to put it back above the high water mark, or are they?        &shake&
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on March 08, 2018, 02:52:43 PM
It appears so !.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on March 08, 2018, 05:39:04 PM
C,mon Hugo stop having a laugh 😂😂 we are talking ccbc now   They reckon we won't be having anymore wind 💨   Just  tell me do you know who they give the job to ,  I take it this clean up is the first of many .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 08, 2018, 06:18:19 PM
It's a regular earner for the company, it looked like Jennings as per usual.    Apart from the grass being higher than the wall by the road I noticed that parts of the "beach"  are now higher than the sea wall.
All it needs now if for them to put the sand above the high tide mark and it'll be higher still.

I remember those houses by the boating lake being des res but who would want a house where you have to hoover the sand from their lounge and the bedrooms?

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on March 08, 2018, 09:17:14 PM
And all because the goons thought they new what they were doing ,never a problem before they messed with the beach , the Sandhills were fine sand so digging a path through it without boarding it up not rocket sience to know rest would keep falling down ,Jennings aren't daft just moving the sand to the side .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Quiggs on March 09, 2018, 12:26:43 PM
I think it’s termed “Job creation”.  :D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on March 10, 2018, 05:39:14 PM
Notice on the webcam 2 diggers and builders huts have arrived on the rough ground close to the café.

Anyone know what it is all about ?
Is the little sculpture in that area ? If so I hope it has not been buried under the sand.

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 10, 2018, 06:47:04 PM
I hope that you are not referring to this expensive masterpiece Mull
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on March 11, 2018, 10:45:04 AM
That's the one.
Has anyone found out yet what it is all about ? Should be nice when it is finished.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 11, 2018, 10:53:38 AM
This may help Mull.      It's written in an arty farty  language so people can understand the thought that has gone into the masterpiece.

I'm sure Arch Motors would give a good price for this bit of scrap metal,  pity the sand doesn't blow over that  ?   instead of into people's properties
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on March 11, 2018, 11:26:23 AM
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Notice on the webcam 2 diggers and builders huts have arrived on the rough ground close to the café.

Anyone know what it is all about ?
Is the little sculpture in that area ? If so I hope it has not been buried under the sand.

Mull, Thanks for the tip about the Westshore web cam, will post the link below for those interested.

http://www.westshorebeachcafe.com/webcam-in-llandudno/ (http://www.westshorebeachcafe.com/webcam-in-llandudno/)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on March 11, 2018, 03:44:38 PM
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This may help Mull.      It's written in an arty farty  language so people can understand the thought that has gone into the masterpiece.

I'm sure Arch Motors would give a good price for this bit of scrap metal,  pity the sand doesn't blow over that  ?   instead of into people's properties

What shelters here? Midgets? What a load of rubbish !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on March 12, 2018, 11:01:30 AM
I see work has started by the café this morning.
Very Driech morning there , enough water to start a new lido, perhaps that's what it will be.

Lovely morning up here,I will have to get out in the garden. So good yesterday the chap over the road cut his grass. Still think it is a bit early for that.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 15, 2018, 03:20:54 PM
The clean up of the sand from around the boating lake has finished, well for now anyway.    So where did they dump the sand?       I didn't see for certain but there were tell tale signs of deposits of sand above the high water mark         &shake&

Even CCBC  must realise that the beach level will be getting higher and higher and that the sand will be drier and lighter than the sand on the natural beach so as a consequence the wind will blow it back over the wall quicker than before.  Eventually I suppose they'll be cleaning the promenade more often than they have black bin collections.

Jennings won't complain as it's a nice regular earner for the firm.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: spotty dog on March 15, 2018, 04:32:37 PM
In fairness Hugo they did dump the sand about 50 yards below high water , :o :oat least while I was watching
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 15, 2018, 05:13:50 PM
You've got more bottle than me Spotty dog because when they were working I got out of the car but immediately got back in it again as it was so cold so I never saw where they actually put it.
That heap of sand in the first photo doesn't seem to have been affected by the tide so I presume that it's above the high water mark

That's the same spot that they dumped the sand exactly three years ago
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: spotty dog on March 15, 2018, 05:18:27 PM
I had my grandchild with me he was intrigued by the diggers so spent a cold hour watching
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on March 15, 2018, 08:01:49 PM
I hope none of them mounds of sand are out of the lake , usually they spread the sand out ( so it takes a few weeks before blowing back ) 😡
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: spotty dog on March 15, 2018, 08:26:15 PM
Well at 12.00hrs last Friday they were dumping well down the beach, I suppose as the tide came in they decided what the hell and dumped  it anywhere



Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on March 16, 2018, 08:31:49 AM
We walked along the cycle path from West Shore to Conwy yesterday and saw that the path had been cleared of sand yet again. The section by the Pumping Station at West Shore has been washed away by the tide, so is having to be rebuilt.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mondie on March 16, 2018, 05:03:12 PM
Thats good to know Dave, I much prefer to ride to work in Deganwy along the path, than on the main road amongst the unhinged tour bus drivers
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 16, 2018, 05:18:47 PM
Make the most of the next few days then Mondie because the sand is coming back, very soon.          ;D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on March 20, 2018, 08:08:39 PM
Not just Westshore.

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/abersoch-beach-hut-owners-work-14435963 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/abersoch-beach-hut-owners-work-14435963)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on March 25, 2018, 04:37:05 PM
Looks like Jenning's have finished,   work site cleared,        never mind we will be seeing them soon      :twoface:
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on May 18, 2018, 10:08:31 AM
2018 Coast Award winners announced
Keep Wales Tidy has unveiled the 91 sites across the country that have met the high standards needed to receive the prestigious Blue Flag, Green Coast Award and Seaside Award – a total of 149 awards for Wales.

Westshore and Colwyn Bay receive Blue Flags and North Shore get a Seaside Award.

https://www.keepwalestidy.cymru/news/2018-coast-award-winners (https://www.keepwalestidy.cymru/news/2018-coast-award-winners)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on May 23, 2018, 02:19:54 PM
It was such a lovely day today that I had a walk along the cycle track at the West Shore but only as far as the rock groyne where the Black Rocks used to be.   The sand is starting to come back on the track but bicycle tracks were evident in the few inches of sand that was on the track so cyclists should make the most of it now.

What I did notice though was a significant change at that end of the beach.  A massive sand dune has built up at the end of the groyne and I was wondering if this has any bearing on the lower levels of sand in Deganwy as reported by another forum member?

I had a look out for the life rafts that were put on the sandbanks in case anyone is stranded on them but the only one I could see was the one level with the Black Rocks and quite a way out.  Is there another one much nearer the cafe or boating lake?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on June 25, 2018, 09:15:05 AM
Another rescue from the sandbanks on the West Shore and the 21 people were lucky this time but with the recent hot weather and the increasing number of tourists this situation might get worse.  We have talked about it before but when I last walked on the West Shore I could only see one life raft and that was nearer Deganwy than Llandudno.   Is there another one between the car park and the Toll house?


http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/16311155.Twenty_one_people_on_sandbanks_in_West_Shore_rescued_by_coastguard_after_finding_themselves_in__quot_imminent_quot_danger/ (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/16311155.Twenty_one_people_on_sandbanks_in_West_Shore_rescued_by_coastguard_after_finding_themselves_in__quot_imminent_quot_danger/)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: spotty dog on June 25, 2018, 12:24:48 PM
There are two rafts one off BlackRocks breakwater and one off morfa beach .the Harbour master department have a man with quad bike on patrol but stupidly 9 to 5 not in sink with the tides
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on June 25, 2018, 02:24:32 PM
Thanks Spotty Dog for that info,  I would have thought that it would be sensible to have a life raft on the sandbank not about 400 yards away
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bri Roberts on June 25, 2018, 02:53:53 PM
Is the life raft really 400 yards away?

I wonder if there is a reason for that?

I also wonder if it is large enough for 21 stranded individuals to at least stand upon?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on June 25, 2018, 03:09:59 PM
It would have to be pretty big to hold 21 people !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bri Roberts on June 25, 2018, 03:44:25 PM
I agree but that is how many the Llandudno Coastguard managed to rescue according to today’s Daily Post.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: spotty dog on June 25, 2018, 04:35:23 PM
They are placed on the top of the last two sandbanks to be covered by the incoming tide
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Mike on June 27, 2018, 04:22:08 PM
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There are two rafts one off BlackRocks breakwater and one off morfa beach .the Harbour master department have a man with quad bike on patrol but stupidly 9 to 5 not in sink with the tides
See what you did there... ;-)
sync/sink

Considering the numbers who venture out ignorant of the risk of the tide coming in behind them, and the resourecs / call outs they generate, maybe it's time for a more proactive approach with something like:
Patrols on busy/hot days/weekends where beach is busy and tide timing may catch peole out
String of marked "Dangerous sandbanks - do not cross" buoys across the beach at the lowest point in the summer season.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on June 27, 2018, 08:32:10 PM
I don't think that however many warning signs are in place you will still get the idiots that ignore them, it's the same in the mountains too.
The idiots are among us and everywhere, take the lady for example in Colwyn Bay this week who was clinging for dear life to a pole out at sea.  Thankfully those great guys on the RNLI  were able to come to the rescue and save her, but what was she doing swimming in the sea alone at 11.00 pm!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: spotty dog on June 27, 2018, 08:50:04 PM
I prefer Darwin's theory of natural selection to sort out the idiots
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on July 06, 2018, 09:04:02 AM
I was having a drink last night with my brother and he told me about something that had happened to him recently.   He and his wife had driven around the Marine Drive and as they were coming down the Drive he noticed a couple of girls on the sandbank walking towards the sea. He also noticed that the sandbank had been cut off by the incoming tide and he was concerned for their safety.
He stopped his car by the toll gate and could see that the girls were still walking towards the sea and were completely unaware that the tide was coming in quickly and had cut them off from the shore.
Despite his efforts, like whistling etc he couldn't get their attention and the two still kept walking towards the sea so his concerns grew. When he looked over the wall a group of young people were having a drinking session and were completely oblivious to the danger those two girls had placed themselves in.  Anyway that group called out and the girls turned around and started walking back to the toll gate and one of the guys waded across the channel to meet the girls but when he reached them the tide had come in even more and the three of them had to swim across the channel to get to the shore.
If my brother hadn't been so concerned for their safety the consequences could have been so different.

He later spoke to someone who had been assisting in the rescue of those 21 people on the same sandbank recently and he was told that the reason why a raft was not on that sandbank was because it could become like a magnet for some people and may attract young people to it and make the situation worse. There are enough idiots around without encouraging more to the sandbank
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bri Roberts on July 06, 2018, 03:22:07 PM
It is frightening to think what could have happened, Hugo.

I cannot understand why someone does not patrol the danger area during the critical times.

On a totally different matter but kind of West Shore related.

This morning, we walked around the Great Orme from West Shore and as you are well aware there is no mobile phone signal until you finally reach the Toll House.

When we arrived there, I received a text message from EE informing me:

“Hi from EE. Great news while you’re in the Isle of Man you can use your plan minutes, texts and data allowance.”

I guess someone can explain what happened.

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on July 06, 2018, 03:54:26 PM
When we had the big Rover P6 Classic car with an old type radio, the only radio wavelength that we could get whilst on the Orme was Isle of Man Radio.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DVT on July 06, 2018, 04:53:59 PM
Hopefully no-one rang you while you were "on the Isle of Man" as you will get charged for the call through Manx Telecome.  Same if you call or text someone, it will cost you more.

A few years ago, my wife and I were on IOM and son called her.  After a lenghty chat she tried to call someone and found no credit left - his call to us had wiped us out of credit!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bri Roberts on July 06, 2018, 05:14:05 PM
On the contrary, DVT.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

“Hi from EE. Great news while you’re in the Isle of Man you can use your plan minutes, texts and data allowance.”


However, calls to countries outside the EU are £1.20 per minute and texts 50p each.

Other charges are the same as when you are in the UK.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DVT on July 06, 2018, 07:09:48 PM
Must have changed ... it was over 10 years since we were on the Isle of Man !!!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Fester on July 06, 2018, 10:44:11 PM
All your calls, texts and data usage plans are valid and therefore free, everywhere in the EU.
All the main service providers are linked up in that way.
After Brexit I expect we will soon lose that excellent deal.

Referring to Bri’s original point,..... if I go to Aber Falls, I get told I’m in the Isle of Man by my phone, and sometimes it thinks I’m in the Irish Republic!

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Bri Roberts on July 07, 2018, 08:39:19 AM
Interesting, Fester.

Even more interesting is this proposal for next Monday.

I must confess I cannot quite understand where exactly this is likely to happen and what type of businesses could open up.



Part of a beach front could see more street traders operating under controversial new plans.

An application will go before members of Conwy Council’s licensing committee on Monday.

Conwy County Borough Council, Community Development Services (C.D.S) made the application to change the designation of the area of land between West Shore Beach and West Parade, Llandudno from a prohibited street to a consent street.

In doing this anyone wishing to trade on the street could apply for permission to the council to do so without being charged a fee.

A report before councillors on the committee said: “The effect of changing the designation to a consent street would mean that any person wishing to trade on the street footway, beach or other area to which the public have access without payment may be able to obtain consent to do so from the council. Consent is obtained by way of an application and paying the appropriate fee.”

The council carried out a consultation to ask the public and other interested parties what they thought.

All 27 of the responses to the consultation were against the proposal to make it easier to trade on the street.

Tessa Wildermouth, Llandudno town clerk, wrote to the committee on behalf of the town council, raising concerns about the plans.

She said: “I have been asked to respond that members were greatly concerned about the impact of the proposed trading on existing businesses and considered that they should support local shops and cafes.

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on July 08, 2018, 10:29:25 PM
They are still at it on the West Shore, this time there were 38 people on the sandbank!


https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/coastguard-crews-once-again-called-14882248 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/coastguard-crews-once-again-called-14882248)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on July 08, 2018, 10:48:51 PM
We have a few factors here Hugo  if you stand on the styal by Anglesey road you can see how the chanells have changed ,their has been a lot of comments on f/ b today , I think the did wrong moving the hut from the middle to the far end ( window is obstructed by the reads ) if the hut was by the cafe area the guy would be at the area where they are going out , I think you mentioned John was told they won't put a pontoon on the Orme side as kids would mess about on it that is what I was told also .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on July 09, 2018, 07:53:59 AM
That's a good vantage point to see the sandbanks Norman and I'll have a look today when I come to Llandudno.   I'll also have a look at the hut as it seems to be in the wrong spot.
What my brother did the other evening was very commendable, even if I say it myself.  It was 9.00 pm when those girls were walking towards the sea and every minute they were putting themselves at more danger.   The water was on the sandbank and the girls and the guy had to wade through the water before finally swimming across the channel.
It's a valid and sensible point about the raft not being there as it would be bound to attract attention from people.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on July 09, 2018, 05:51:00 PM
I had a look at the West Shore late this afternoon and can see that the channels have changed over the years and it may be due to the stone groyne that they put in by the Toll Gate.
They have always been dangerous though and people should be aware of the tides there.  I took a couple of photos but they were taken into the Sun and don't show the sandbanks properly

This hut that you refer to Norman, is it that large blue one on the bottom right of the photo and what is its purpose?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on July 09, 2018, 08:04:56 PM
Hi Hugo yes that blue container is where the guy is located did you notice the high grass ( reeds) in front of his window , once again people had to be rescued ,this is not a new thing we have had fatalities in the past ,some years ago a local lad didn't make it they could hear shouting at the Lilly but it was dark ,  in my opinion that hut should be nearer the cafe ( car park) that where the people seem to walk out from also the guy works from 10 am till about 4 pm should be there to the tides ,when will this council take notice and the harbour master 🤔
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on July 09, 2018, 10:54:18 PM
I saw the blue hut from Anglesey Road Norman and didn't go down there to have a look at it so I couldn't see the high grass.   I remember that incident by the Lily and it was so tragic, isn't one death bad enough but it could easily happen again.
It could easily have happened again that evening if  my brother hadn't stopped there at 9.00 pm thank goodness he was aware of the potential trouble the girls were in.
It's been on the news a lot this last week so I hope that CCBC  do something positive about it
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on July 10, 2018, 07:11:48 AM
There's a limit to how much even the frighteningly inept CCBC can do about abject stupidity, despite the vast experience they bring to the field.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on July 10, 2018, 08:25:22 AM
You are right Ian of course but moving the hut might be a start and it could be a type of information centre too for the benefit of everyone including the idiots that come there.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on July 10, 2018, 08:47:32 AM
We take the dog on the beach by that hut when the tide turns I couldn't believe how fast it went out within say 10 minutes it had gone many yards ,I've seen people out there you try and shout / wave but if your not in a position to hear you won't know as happened with the people at the Lilly with a local lad ,  one thing most of us locals that know what can happen ,but people that come from towns/ cities for a day out to our lovely scenery they are unaware ,someone put on f/ b about the signs yes two are by that hut But the people don't go out there but as I've said by the cafe/ car park , so 1 move the hut there 2 have the guy on duty at the tide times, it's not a 10 till 4 job .
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: andyCYD on July 11, 2018, 07:47:01 AM
Signs will have very limited use in this case for two key reasons:

1. A sizeable proportion of the population do not understand tides - they know the sea comes in and out but don't realise the times and size of the high/low change every day. 
2. Very few people have any comprehension about the speed that the tide comes in at West Shore.  If you get the chance to take a kayak or similar (not an inflatable dingy); go onto the sand back at the turn of the tide - you will be amazed. 

I am shocked that the 'hut' is only manned 10 - 4.  This was certainly not the case in past years.  It does make me wonder what the hell they do??

It wouldn't be too hard to set up a volunteer patrol.  Dog walkers would be ideal (not withstanding the control areas), with a rota to say a number would be at West Shore at the turn of the tide each day.  Issuing the duty patrol with air horns to get attention.  Anyone got appropriate links with RNLI to see if they could coordinate?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on July 11, 2018, 08:37:34 AM
That sounds like a good idea, Andy.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on July 11, 2018, 03:37:10 PM
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Signs will have very limited use in this case for two key reasons:

1. A sizeable proportion of the population do not understand tides - they know the sea comes in and out but don't realise the times and size of the high/low change every day. 
2. Very few people have any comprehension about the speed that the tide comes in at West Shore.  If you get the chance to take a kayak or similar (not an inflatable dingy); go onto the sand back at the turn of the tide - you will be amazed. 
I am shocked that the 'hut' is only manned 10 - 4.  This was certainly not the case in past years.  It does make me wonder what the hell they do??
It wouldn't be too hard to set up a volunteer patrol.  Dog walkers would be ideal (not withstanding the control areas), with a rota to say a number would be at West Shore at the turn of the tide each day.  Issuing the duty patrol with air horns to get attention.  Anyone got appropriate links with RNLI to see if they could coordinate?

Your mention of air horns made me think of an automatic siren on a timer, set to local tidal conditions, for use during the holiday season....... not sure the Westshore residents would approve.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: spotty dog on July 11, 2018, 04:50:51 PM
We had an Auxiliary coast guard on the Gt Orme at one time in a stone building above the gun sites ,this was manned by volunteers until the government got involved and closed most of the stations.
As regards the tides in the estuary like all tides they run to the 12th rule  ie 1st hour 1 12th 2nd hour 2  12th 3rd hour 3 12th 4 hour 3 12th 5 hour 2 12th 6 hour 1 12th as you can see the maximum tide run ie volume is just as the banks are covering .tides for West Shore see link along with tidal graph
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: spotty dog on July 11, 2018, 04:55:11 PM
Sorry missed link
https://bigsalty.com/en/weather/forecast/110/
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on July 12, 2018, 03:33:24 PM
Lots of Portacabins being set up beside the Westshore Cafe, film crew in town getting ready for the Judy Dench/Eddie Izzard film, "Six minutes to midnight"     https://www.screendaily.com/news/judi-dench-in-talks-to-join-eddie-izzard-in-six-minutes-to-midnight-exclusive/5126857.article (https://www.screendaily.com/news/judi-dench-in-talks-to-join-eddie-izzard-in-six-minutes-to-midnight-exclusive/5126857.article)



Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on July 12, 2018, 06:01:53 PM
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Lots of Portacabins being set up beside the Westshore Cafe, film crew in town getting ready for the Judy Dench/Eddie Izzard film, "Six minutes to midnight"     https://www.screendaily.com/news/judi-dench-in-talks-to-join-eddie-izzard-in-six-minutes-to-midnight-exclusive/5126857.article (https://www.screendaily.com/news/judi-dench-in-talks-to-join-eddie-izzard-in-six-minutes-to-midnight-exclusive/5126857.article)

No chance of them moving the blue hut to there now!      ;D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on July 15, 2018, 11:52:03 AM
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Lots of Portacabins being set up beside the Westshore Cafe, film crew in town getting ready for the Judy Dench/Eddie Izzard film, "Six minutes to midnight"     https://www.screendaily.com/news/judi-dench-in-talks-to-join-eddie-izzard-in-six-minutes-to-midnight-exclusive/5126857.article (https://www.screendaily.com/news/judi-dench-in-talks-to-join-eddie-izzard-in-six-minutes-to-midnight-exclusive/5126857.article)
No chance of them moving the blue hut to there now!      ;D

More have turned up, looking like a small village now, a very professional outfit (ADF Production and Support Vehicles for the TV & Film Industries), I Googled the company.........   http://facilitiesbyadf.com/ (http://facilitiesbyadf.com/)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on July 18, 2018, 08:36:01 AM
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Lots of Portacabins being set up beside the Westshore Cafe, film crew in town getting ready for the Judy Dench/Eddie Izzard film, "Six minutes to midnight"     https://www.screendaily.com/news/judi-dench-in-talks-to-join-eddie-izzard-in-six-minutes-to-midnight-exclusive/5126857.article (https://www.screendaily.com/news/judi-dench-in-talks-to-join-eddie-izzard-in-six-minutes-to-midnight-exclusive/5126857.article)
No chance of them moving the blue hut to there now!      ;D

More have turned up, looking like a small village now, a very professional outfit (ADF Production and Support Vehicles for the TV & Film Industries), I Googled the company.........   http://facilitiesbyadf.com/ (http://facilitiesbyadf.com/)
The production is being funded by Lionsgate, who are a decent sized film company:
http://www.lionsgatefilms.co.uk/ (http://www.lionsgatefilms.co.uk/)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on July 18, 2018, 10:56:02 AM
Why Eddie Izzard was in North Wales today...but won't be shooting his new movie on historic pier as planned.

Adam Williams, managing director of Tir Prince Leisure Group, which owns the pier, described the situation as a “huge shame”.
“At no point has this been a monetary issue. In fact, we were willing to lose money just to hold the filming."

“But coming up to the latter stages of last week when we were chasing the contract, it became apparent that some of the things they wanted to do, which weren’t disclosed at the start, would need to have been managed by us or not done at all.
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/eddie-izzard-north-wales-todaybut-14920422 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/eddie-izzard-north-wales-todaybut-14920422)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Meleri on July 18, 2018, 03:50:57 PM
Mr M and I had a lovely lunch at Westshore cafe yesterday, he had Haddock Chowder and crusty bread which was delicious and I had GF chocolate cake which was equally delicious and very reasonably priced. While we were there we watched various cast members picking up their lunch from the catering tent and what fantastic outfits and hats the ladies had on. A while later some cars arrived from the 1930/40 era. Sad to hear that filming won't be continuing on the pier and will continue down in South Wales, as I'm sure when the scenery would have been viewed later while watching the film it would have encouraged people to visit the area  :-\
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on July 18, 2018, 05:34:00 PM
There are rumors, that llandudno scenes could be scrapped due to continuity, as some local actors and extras cannot travel to South Wales....... ?
Most of the portacabins and equipment have gone, just two vehicles left.   what a lost opportunity, especially as it was a local film companies production.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on July 24, 2018, 11:02:38 PM
Three swimmers on the West Shore Sandbanks were very lucky today but something needs to be done to prevent this type of thing from happening as the next people may not be so lucky


https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/swimmers-very-lucky-alive-after-14948598 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/swimmers-very-lucky-alive-after-14948598)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on August 13, 2018, 01:11:06 PM
On two recent visits to Westshore, there were some model powerboat enthusiasts using the lake, nice to see it being used, however the boats in question, some over three feet, powerful and fast, tearing up and down with screaming engines, extremely noisy, and in my opinion unsuitable use of the "boating lake"
An incident not necessarily related, ....one of the men had to wade in and rescue a dazed gull, that was floundering,  if I were a suspicious person, I would conclude the gull had been hit, before my arrival ?

On a similar note I understand the new concessionaires, running the mini golf etc. are considering renting remote controlled boats for use on the lake.

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on August 13, 2018, 03:34:40 PM
There was a guy who used to have a couple of powered boats on the boating lake but I haven't seen him for years.   One boat was an aircraft carrier ( I think) and was absolutely massive.   He couldn't lift it so they used a winch to bring it out of the water and then it was put on a trailer to take it away.
I can't find a photo of it but this paddle steamer was his other boat
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on August 13, 2018, 03:53:05 PM
Yes Hugo, I have seen him and another older gent, who has powered model boats, and it is what you would expect on a boating lake, the group I mentioned above are a bit over enthusiastic, and it may take intervention to control, it is leaning towards being "Anti social behavior".
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on August 13, 2018, 10:46:56 PM
Sounds like the Saga louts are at it again on the boating lake Steve    ;D

The guy with the two large boats was really pleasant when I spoke to him and very enthusiastic about his hobby.   I found this clip of him with that boat I mentioned



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQOz9aT1WtI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQOz9aT1WtI)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on August 14, 2018, 07:05:53 AM
Would have been rather neat had he employed tiny jets that could take off and attack other boats :D :D
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on September 05, 2018, 06:23:56 PM
Oooop's   Don't know how I missed this.............

A beach was sealed off as bomb disposal experts detonated a suspected World War Two device.

The device was discovered by a member of the public who was using magnets to fish for underwater treasure near the Great Orme at around 10am today.
Police and the Army were called in following the find.
Bomb experts then took the device to West Shore in Llandudno where a controlled explosion took place.

An Army spokesman said: "We had a call at 10.35am from North Wales Police and Chester troop attended the scene.
"They thought it could have been a mortar [bomb] but it was actually a smoke mortar which was disposed of in situ.
"Somebody carrying out magnetic fishing picked it up and took it back to their place of work before police were called."

A North Wales Police spokesman said: "We were called at 10.10am this morning after a member of the public reported that they had found a World War Two device near the Great Orme.
"It was then taken to a location on Garage Street and the police were called and we then informed the Explosive Ordnance Disposal team.     ref DP
Title: Re: West Shore Issues ......Film Crews at west Shore
Post by: SteveH on September 16, 2018, 08:59:46 PM
Quote
mull
Ad Free Member

Film Crews at west Shore
« on: Today at 08:34:05 PM »
Quote
Notice a lot of film crew vehicles at West Shore tonight.

Anyone know what is going on ?

Sorry Mull, not much at the moment but it looks a similar set up to the Eddie Izzard film (see previous page) 
 One of the trucks is from PKE  film and TV lighting Co..... http://www.pkelighting.com (http://www.pkelighting.com)   

There has been mention of Game of Thrones filming in NW around Penrhyn Castle ?  will check tomorrow.


Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on September 21, 2018, 11:28:07 AM
Some photos of Westshore , the first one is mind blowing .....images Simon Steed FB

click on photo to enlarge ?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on September 21, 2018, 01:59:57 PM
Thanks for posting those photos Steve and the first one is truly mind blowing and the photographer has captured the scene just as it is.

Those idiots at CCBC that agreed to the environmentally disastrous sea defence in the 1990's should be made to go to see the results of their mistakes
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: spotty dog on September 21, 2018, 04:53:39 PM
Are they filming Laurence of Arabia on the West Shore 😂😂
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on September 21, 2018, 06:21:32 PM
Think you are going to have a rough winter !

I see Hollins had a tree down ,hope you have all been safe there. Not unusual to get storms at this time of the year, remains of hurricanes coming across the Atlantic but I think this year has been exceptional. It is only 21 September but it seems like autumn has been with us for a few weeks now.
After the exceptional heat in May,June and July the weather went downhill very fast here on Mull. We returned from holiday in Cornwall on the 30 July and since then we have not sat out on our sun loungers once. Usually manage 2 or 3 days each week but this year it seems to have been day after day of wind and rain.

Stay safe everyone.


Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on September 22, 2018, 09:06:20 AM
It's been an interesting year, weather-wise.  Over the course of 12 months the weather tends to level out, and we had an unusually long period during the summer with no rain and no wind.  The early part of the year was quite a bit colder than usual, too, so the heatwave was predictable.  But I believe we can expect a higher than usual rainfall this Autumn combined with stronger than average winds overall.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Meleri on September 24, 2018, 04:57:57 PM
An application has gone in for an extension & improvements to the Westshore Beach Cafe. If anyone is interested in having a look at the plans & photomontage it's application 0/45564 on the Planning Portal. As I'm a frequent user of this cafe I welcome the improvement & they look pretty good to me, as at times it can be quite a squash in this very small but popular cafe  :)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on October 12, 2018, 04:42:02 PM
A bit more on the Westshore beach cafe revamp, originally mentioned on the cafe etc. topic, everything seems positive, however not mentioned, is the plan for block bookings, weddings* etc. involving late night openings, the improvements will be a great asset to Westshore, but those living close to the cafe, are understandingly worried and are against these plans*

 West Shore Beach Cafe revealed they have submitted an application to Conwy County Borough Council (CCBC) planning committee for a major overhaul of their beach front site.
The new plans would see an extension of the front and side of the cafe with the front itself predominantly glass allowing visitors to fully enjoy the views, new staff and toilet facilities downstairs along with a new, bigger kitchen and takeaway area.

The extensions would see the capacity at the cafe doubled - the new designs will be able to house 85 people inside and 56 outside (currently 42 and 36 respectively).
http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/16979856.plans-put-forward-for-west-shore-beach-cafe-revamp/ (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/16979856.plans-put-forward-for-west-shore-beach-cafe-revamp/)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on December 06, 2018, 04:23:30 PM
This hopefully will go part way to solving the problems, caused by Arriva making the seemingly unnecessary changes mentioned below,

Some news for West Shore residents as bus services get set to return to the area early next year.
From January 27, the number 5 and X5 services, that run from Bangor through to Llandudno, will now provide links through to West Shore.

The newly extended service will also see an increase in the number of buses on the road, with an additional four buses per hour in each direction, running along Gloddaeth Avenue.

The 5 and X5 bus will now also run in the evening Monday to Saturday until 11.30 pm, as well as providing a Sunday service between West Shore and Maesdu.

The new route comes in response to high customer demand for a service to West Shore after the number 12 service was shortened earlier this year.

Llandudno residents were left outraged after changes to the number 12 bus service came into affect in March which saw the service terminate at the the Wetherspoons at the Old Palladium Cinema rather than West Shore.   ref Pioneer

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: OrmeMac on December 06, 2018, 06:44:28 PM
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This hopefully will go part way to solving the problems, caused by Arriva making the seemingly unnecessary changes mentioned below,

Some news for West Shore residents as bus services get set to return to the area early next year.
From January 27, the number 5 and X5 services, that run from Bangor through to Llandudno, will now provide links through to West Shore.

The newly extended service will also see an increase in the number of buses on the road, with an additional four buses per hour in each direction, running along Gloddaeth Avenue.

The 5 and X5 bus will now also run in the evening Monday to Saturday until 11.30 pm, as well as providing a Sunday service between West Shore and Maesdu.

The new route comes in response to high customer demand for a service to West Shore after the number 12 service was shortened earlier this year.

Llandudno residents were left outraged after changes to the number 12 bus service came into affect in March which saw the service terminate at the the Wetherspoons at the Old Palladium Cinema rather than West Shore.   ref Pioneer

Hope the residents don't complain about the single deck buses like they did about the double deck ones spoiling 'their' view.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on December 06, 2018, 09:15:12 PM
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This hopefully will go part way to solving the problems, caused by Arriva making the seemingly unnecessary changes mentioned below,
Some news for West Shore residents as bus services get set to return to the area early next year.
From January 27, the number 5 and X5 services, that run from Bangor through to Llandudno, will now provide links through to West Shore.

Hope the residents don't complain about the single deck buses like they did about the double deck ones spoiling 'their' view.

According to rumor, one resident of the newly refurbished Admiral house complained about the buses, waiting at the Westshore terminus, I was never sure if it were true or not, and always thought that Arriva would not make these changes based on someone who had only recently moved in, when the terminus had been there for years, however just today, someone told me, that the complainant was trying to sell his flat, bought as an investment, and some of the viewers did not like the buses spoiling the area/view, but has since sold the flat ?  :-\

The No12 service, was fantastic, the route and frequency excellent, we can only hope the new system will come close, another point the new terminus for the No12 opposite Weatherspoons is causing a lot of congestion, not to mention drivers seen entering said premises :o  and complaints of drivers using the central reservation of The Avenue as a makeshift toilet. :o
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: OrmeMac on December 07, 2018, 11:46:53 AM
The Arriva drivers seemed to have access to the toilet block at the West Shore terminus. I would have thought they'd try to reach an agreement to use the 'facilities' at the Palladium. Never understood why they couldn't turn at the second roundabout and spend their laid up time parked at the stop next to the car park. Certainly in the summer they seem to run a few extra buses to make up for any lost time leading to two or three buses sitting waiting for their time to depart.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on December 07, 2018, 02:02:38 PM
Those affected by the change, could not understand why they were necessary, the facilities and parking at Westshore were ideal,
suitable for residents and visitors, the distance saved is negligible, considering that the majority of buses use the main turning point, part way down Gloddaeth Ave, which is approximately four hundred yards short of the original terminal.

Drivers were advised to use the facilities in the car park opposite the Cottage Loaf, which added to the congestion, as drivers had to lock their vehicle whilst unattended, there were complaints of buses driving past because there was no room to pick up passengers, this resulted in some drivers using the Palladium, which raised the question of alcohol.

These changes have never made sense to the Westshore residents, there does not seem to be any significant financial saving, plus the added congestion to an already busy part of town.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Quiggs on December 07, 2018, 04:28:31 PM
Last year whilst waiting for a bus on Glodaeth Avenue, there were a couple of people at the stop monitoring the buses on both sides of the avenue, counting the No. of passengers on the bus and waiting at the stops. I enquired as to reason the but they were evasive and reticent and moved away. I later discovered that they were from the flats by the terminus and were objecting to the buses at the terminus, some with their engines running. Later the
No 12 stopped terminating there :'(
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 05, 2019, 06:52:51 PM
I drove along the West Shore in Llandudno this afternoon and they were having a large scale sand clearance there but that was only on the roads and pavements.  They still have to clean up the boating lake and surrounding area and the promenade as well as the cycle track.
It's a mess, an unprecedented mess and getting worse with each year that passes
Then across the road there is the Penmorfa building site but I suppose you can't call it a building site because there is no building going on there and it's been like that for over 11 years
What an advert for tourism in the area but perhaps the West Shore Councillors can do something about it and earn their pay increase
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on March 05, 2019, 08:24:57 PM
This council is true to form bless them, so these few days the winds are blowing so they decide to move the sand so it blows back, will they take the sand away from the boating lake 🤔, we take the dog down there most day and as you say Hugo it's getting worse, more sand on the roads than on the beach, Will they clear the cycle track this year or leave it with the new one being done 🤔,
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on March 05, 2019, 08:55:37 PM
What is it about  those who are looking after our interests ?

We have the same problems up here. For the past 30+ years Argyle & Bute council have taken the Pier Dues off every passenger, car, lorry, and tour bus using the main island ferry port Craignure.

Result---- Pier fendering is in such a poor state ferry skippers are reluctant to berth in poor weather conditions. Now far more cancellations than in past years making a lifeline service unreliable.Been left to rot oveer the years.

You ask the councellers what has happened to the pier due money ?  Answer---Silence.

These people are supposed to be looking after our interests. ----- End of rant, I am sure Comwy will be the same.


Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 06, 2019, 09:26:25 AM
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This council is true to form bless them, so these few days the winds are blowing so they decide to move the sand so it blows back, will they take the sand away from the boating lake 🤔, we take the dog down there most day and as you say Hugo it's getting worse, more sand on the roads than on the beach, Will they clear the cycle track this year or leave it with the new one being done 🤔,

I hope that you don't go there on windy days Norman, I went last year to take some photos and ended up with an ear full of sand so I'm more careful nowadays.
I've attached this photo previously and this is what the West Shore was intended to look like.     It was like that in our youth and stayed like that until they let the lunatics out of the asylum and build that sea defence in the 1990's.
If you look at the photo closely you can see the wall that was built near the road but you wouldn't be able to see it now as the sand is above the level of the top of the wall.
It's a man made environmental disaster that could have been avoided and the powers that be were told that before it had even been built
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on March 06, 2019, 10:07:39 AM
Is it just me? I cannot see the photo.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 06, 2019, 11:57:37 AM
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Is it just me? I cannot see the photo.


No it's me Nemesis, having another senior moment.        :-[


Now there are sand dunes on the grass and the sand is above the top of the wall.    It's all happened since the 1990's but CCBC hasn't worked that out yet

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 06, 2019, 06:32:44 PM
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This council is true to form bless them, so these few days the winds are blowing so they decide to move the sand so it blows back, will they take the sand away from the boating lake 🤔, we take the dog down there most day and as you say Hugo it's getting worse, more sand on the roads than on the beach, Will they clear the cycle track this year or leave it with the new one being done 🤔,

I hope that you won't be taking your dog for a walk on the West Shore tomorrow morning Norman as westerly winds of over 40 mph are forecast for tonight and tomorrow morning.
Shame that the sand clearance was started earlier this week but at least it keeps someone in regular employment

Here in Colwyn Bay it's bin day tomorrow so my bins are staying put in the garage until the bin lorry comes at about 8.00 am as we have winds of over 40 mph forecast from the early hours of tomorrow morning
Kingdom Security would have had a bumper day tomorrow if it followed the bin lorry along the streets
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: spotty dog on March 07, 2019, 05:18:14 PM
Found this photo on Facebook west shore before sea defences
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: mull on March 07, 2019, 06:00:26 PM
Hi Spotty Dog,
Looking at the cars in that photo would it be taken about 1960 ?
Sure the car experts will get this one.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on March 07, 2019, 07:42:54 PM
Morris minor and the Beetle seem to suggest '60s.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 08, 2019, 12:18:15 PM
That's a great photo Spotty dog and thanks very much for posting it as it has brought back many happy memories of the time before the ill fated sea defence of the 1990's
To the left of the photo and out of sight was a WW 2 concrete look out bunker that we played in when we were kids and when I started to drive I'd often park my car in those dunes where the car park now is
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: spotty dog on March 08, 2019, 12:37:20 PM
We won't ask what you were up to in the dunes in your car Hugo 😁
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 08, 2019, 02:13:13 PM
And I'm too much of a gentleman to tell you either       :-[
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on March 08, 2019, 02:34:51 PM
Hugo I walked the dog on westshore this morning , so the 3 machines are fenced off how much are we paying for them to be sat there🤔  Maybe if Ccbc took notice of the weather forecast they could have rescheduled to job, usual cost of this is £1.000 a day.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 08, 2019, 04:23:54 PM
Well you're a braver man than me Norman, I'm not going out today and certainly not to the West Shore.      As for the CCBC well words fail me. 
Who else would build a sea defence  by increasing the height of the sand by 10 foot on a west facing shore where the prevailing wind is known to be a strong westerly?
Then to compound their insult to the town they deposit quarry waste on a North Shore where they were crying out for more sand
Now don't mention the cycle path or I'll have another rant
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Cambrian on March 08, 2019, 04:49:24 PM
Hugo - thanks for the mention of the pill box.  I, too, remember it but can never find the location so I did not dream it after all.  Could it have been covered by the sand or was it demolished ?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 08, 2019, 06:11:12 PM
Cambrian,  that photo was taken from the top of a high sand dune and to the left of it as  I remember was a large hollow between the dunes and the Pill box was at the bottom of it.   I think that it was destroyed, probably at the same time as those around the gunsite were
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Cambrian on March 08, 2019, 07:38:57 PM
Could well be Hugo.  I do recall it was in a sort of dip. It features in the book "Jampot Smith" a wartime novel of a young guy growing up in Llandudno.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 09, 2019, 04:27:07 PM
I drove down the West Shore and the along part of Abbey Road and I can honestly say that I have never seen the sand problem there as bad as it was today.
Added to that if the BBC weather forecast is correct that area can face strong westerly winds some over 50 mph until 5.00 pm on Wednesday so the situation will only get worse
If I can see how the situation has arisen why can't the Councillors representing the West Shore?    There must be some forum members who live in the affected areas so it would be interesting to get their point of view on this matter

Now just in case there are any cynics out there that say that you should expect that when you live by the seaside, here is a photo I've just come across of  "Girls in Alice costume at the Lewis Carroll Memorial on Llandudno's West Shore in 1988"
That was only about 5 years before the idiots built the second sea defence in the 1990's
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on March 09, 2019, 06:39:27 PM
Our windows are semi-opaque with blown sand, you know where I live Hugo and it is not in the nearest vicinity of West Shore, but near enough ! When it is windy and wet we can't see through them.
One of the local councillors actually lives in West Parade and I noticed yesterday that he had put boards up at the bottom of his front gate, presumably to stop the sand getting into his garden.
A couple of years back the sand was so bad outside The Clontarf hotel that there was literally a dune across the road.















i

















Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on March 09, 2019, 07:24:23 PM
Hugo I was daft enough to take the dog today just after midday peg stayed in the car, where is the sand in that pic 🤔 Oh yes that was before our council messed about, as you say I've Never seen it so bad, when I got back to the car it had loads of sand stuck to it,  it just shows how daft our councilors are he puts a board against his gate 🤔 Doesn't he realise that sand will blow over that board. The amount of Our money that gets wasted every year because of some idiots 😡
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 09, 2019, 11:18:00 PM
The sand doesn't affect my property, simply because I don't live in the town but it does affect hundreds of properties in that area.  It also affects the daily life of the people there and also affects the tourism trade too.
No one can walk on that part of the West Shore when the wind is blowing and it could all have been avoided if the Councillors at the time didn't behave like nodding donkeys when it came to the vote on the sea defence.
I've seen your photos Nemesis of that ceiling that came down because of the sand and you live such a long way from the shore.   Just imagine then what it is like for those that live on the West Parade,  they can't open the windows because of the sand which damages their property and gets into the attic as well
That's the visible effects of the sand but it's also the unseen bits that concern me such as the drains,  that part of Llandudno is flat so how will Llandudno cope when the next flood comes and it was rain that caused the last floods not the sea
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: wrex on March 10, 2019, 08:10:39 AM
i wonder how the residents opposite cope,as we know the stones are put in place so the tide runs up and unfortunatley so does the sand.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on March 10, 2019, 08:57:13 AM
I'm trying to remember that far back, but when the original proposals, based on tidal surveys, were put to the Council I seem to remember that the purpose of the Groynes was to create a raised sand bed which would itself reduce the danger of flooding. It seems to have accomplished the former, anyway.

I have copies of the original report somewhere, and I also remember the basis of their proposals was the projected sea level rise over some years. A lot of Llandudno is somewhat vulnerable to any rise, really, and the groynes were by far the cheapest and most attractive option.  I suspect what they need now is a fluid dynamics specialist to advise on sand containment.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on March 10, 2019, 09:07:13 AM
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Hugo I was daft enough to take the dog today just after midday peg stayed in the car, where is the sand in that pic 🤔 Oh yes that was before our council messed about, as you say I've Never seen it so bad, when I got back to the car it had loads of sand stuck to it,  it just shows how daft our councilors are he puts a board against his gate 🤔 Doesn't he realise that sand will blow over that board. The amount of Our money that gets wasted every year because of some idiots 😡

Well said Norman and thinking that the council is this year giving Wales Rally GB £100,000 ( from FOA ) and that is not counting what is being given by the W A G it strikes me that money is going to the wrong things !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: rhuddlan on March 10, 2019, 09:33:54 AM
I couldn't help looking up a review of the book "jampot smith " referred to above. It would be nice to read a slightly more recent and maybe racier story about being an amorous  teenager in the  Llandudno area in the 60's  .Perhaps that something for Hugo to relate to us! :)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DVT on March 10, 2019, 09:43:55 AM
 Quote by Nemesis: "... thinking that the council is this year giving Wales Rally GB £100,000 ( from FOA ) and that is not counting what is being given by the WAG it strikes me that money is going to the wrong things !"

I suspect you'll find that the event is worth far more than £100k in terms of business into the town, especially the hotel trade at a slack time, by way of the people visiting for that event and the publicity showing Llandudno all round the world.

The recent Cambrian was supported by the Council and a survey carried out to assess the spends, which will be far greater than the financial support given to the event.  Llandudno received massive publicity in the press, TV all round the world, a total of over one million hits were recorded on social media.

... the problem, to my way of thinking, is that the money spent on events comes out of the Council funds (such as from council taxes) but the income goes to businesses and not to cover running costs of the town (such as sorting out the sand) ... I should just say that is my personal opinion, and not that of any organisation I am linked with.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 10, 2019, 11:31:35 AM
I don't think that we need is a new fluid dynamics specialist to advise on sand containment, just look at what the last consultants did on the West Shore.
The original sea defence was built in 1952 and on the landward side of the sea wall is a flood barrier built in 1936.   The original excuse given to me by the CCBC was that the steps were being undermined because of a lack of sand.  So what do they do?      Import sand and raise the level of the beach by 10 feet and build groynes that are attached to the land.
So what they have done is restrict the normally current of the sea and this has increased the level of the sand, so the beach is continually getting higher with the result that the sand is blowing over faster than it has ever done.
They have also built a fixed groyne at the Black Rocks area where prior to that there was a natural rock barrier that filtered and slowed the flow of the sea so it didn't have any impact on places upstream on the Conwy River.      One of our forum members reported on the shrinking beach levels by the Deganwy promenade so that must be attributed to the fixed groyne at the Black Rocks
Now if the previous consultants and CCBC haven't caused enough damage to the West Shore the CCBC has made the situation much worse.       
For at least 20 years any sand blown over from the beach has been returned back to the beach but deposited above the high water mark.  Consequently that top sand is dry and lighter and blows over the wall quicker than before.     Apparently they need a licence from DEFRA to deposit the sand below the high water mark but I've noticed that since I've sent e-mails to them they have deposited the sand further down the beach but it's too late, the damage has already been done
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DVT on March 10, 2019, 09:57:14 PM
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Llandudno received massive publicity in the press, TV all round the world, a total of over one million hits were recorded on social media.

Just received the official report on the media coverage and the number of hits on social media was way over 10 (ten) million, with 1.6 million individuals logging in!
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: bigbadhenry on March 11, 2019, 08:48:13 AM
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Quote by Nemesis: "... thinking that the council is this year giving Wales Rally GB £100,000 ( from FOA ) and that is not counting what is being given by the WAG it strikes me that money is going to the wrong things !"

I suspect you'll find that the event is worth far more than £100k in terms of business into the town, especially the hotel trade at a slack time, by way of the people visiting for that event and the publicity showing Llandudno all round the world.

The recent Cambrian was supported by the Council and a survey carried out to assess the spends, which will be far greater than the financial support given to the event.  Llandudno received massive publicity in the press, TV all round the world, a total of over one million hits were recorded on social media.

... the problem, to my way of thinking, is that the money spent on events comes out of the Council funds (such as from council taxes) but the income goes to businesses and not to cover running costs of the town (such as sorting out the sand) ... I should just say that is my personal opinion, and not that of any organisation I am linked with.
How much!!!!!!!
Is there no end to the money Events Conwy can spend. I believe the next one is a £100,000 plus
for a light show

Much as I like motor sport, CBCC can't afford to support Wales Rally GB

It's about time Cllr Sam Rowlands stopped supporting Events Conwy while
agreeing  to massive rate rises. If the hotels/cafes make money out of these events
they should help fund them instead of the local rate payers. All I hear are moans about
closing roads and altered bus services. The vast majority of CBCC have no interest in these events.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: DaveR on March 12, 2019, 10:16:54 AM
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Could well be Hugo.  I do recall it was in a sort of dip. It features in the book "Jampot Smith" a wartime novel of a young guy growing up in Llandudno.
I have a copy of that book, very enjoyable read. I also enjoyed Errant Target by Cyril Joyce, a thriller set in Llandudno.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 12, 2019, 11:01:45 AM
Did the book have a photo of the Pill box on the West Shore Dave?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 12, 2019, 05:04:30 PM
I was there again today and a couple of machines were fighting a losing battle with the wind.  I hope that the workers are not leaving it above the high tide mark but I suppose it doesn't matter anyway as it'll all be going back over the wall tonight or tomorrow
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on March 12, 2019, 05:39:04 PM
Hugo you are joking them pics aren't from today, surely our council aren't that stupid, um I'll take that back is this another case of having to use this years budget before the end of month, this gale force winds are till the w/ end today's works will be tomorrow's work 😡
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on March 12, 2019, 06:07:32 PM
They're  not actually shifting sand, are they? Do they not have access to a weather forecast?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on March 19, 2019, 08:34:58 AM
I was looking at the first two photos again, one taken in 1988 and the other yesterday and the only thing that hasn't changed are the benches in the background.   It's a wonder they have lasted so long after being sand blasted day in and day out

The sand dune that is on the steps is now higher than the sea defence wall and I wonder if visitors to the town realise that there are over 10 large steps below that dune

There were 3 machines working on the sand clearance yesterday and while I was there not much work was going on so the sand is likely to be there for a while
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Meleri on May 07, 2019, 05:35:10 PM
As quite a few of our Forum members are interested in anything regarding North & West Shore Llandudno I thought I would let you know about the recent discussions at CCBC regarding this. At the Economy & Place Overview & Scrutiny Committee meeting on the 2nd May they discussed Proposed LLandudno Coastal Defence Improvements & a Short List Options Report, this meeting can be watched on the CCBC Webcast site. They have made suggestions to raise the sea wall defence on North Shore, install groynes & a number of other things were put forward. Welsh Government funding would pay 100% for detailed designs & 75% for Proposed Construction, CCBC would have to find the other 25% from whatever source they could. One Councillor suggested asking Mostyn Estates for a contribution ???. Hats off to Cllr Greg Robbins & a number of other Councillors who were insistent that the people of Llandudno should be part of this discussion at all stages, to which I totally agree.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on May 07, 2019, 07:52:46 PM
I watched that meeting, the only one to come out with some credit was clr Bradfield saying how he used to holiday here then moved here and what a mess our council have done, this council must be paying that Irish guy a good wedge what a lap dog, I laughed ever time he said the cobbles, no mate that is quarry Rock 😡  How many of these councilors spoke out at the time, that's right None all let quite. Now that our once lovely very sandy beach is ruined they let you think they will put it right, see the flying pigs 😡
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: llandudnotrust on May 08, 2019, 01:19:58 PM
I think he is Scottish
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on May 08, 2019, 06:22:26 PM
Yes I know he's from Scotland 🤔
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on July 04, 2019, 09:23:23 AM
A FAMILIAR face on Llandudno’s West Shore beach, will be hanging up his reins after giving holidaymakers rides for donkey’s years.

Philip Talbot, aged 80, is putting his string of six donkeys, named Sean, Snowy, Charlie, Heidi, Lucy and Nick, into retirement and giving up work himself after more than 60 years on the beach.    Cont.  https://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/17748504.end-donkey-rides-llandudno-39-s-west-shore-beach/ (https://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/17748504.end-donkey-rides-llandudno-39-s-west-shore-beach/)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on July 04, 2019, 11:08:00 AM
There has been a lot of activity recently, in the area, grass cutting, painting and tiding etc, even a team from Mostyn estates trimming verges and clearing sand, I have just found out through the Friends of West Shore FB page,  "Its Your Neighbourhood" judging later this week.....

"Last tidying and litter pick done yesterday prior to the "Its Your Neighbourhood" judging later this week, great work by some of our volunteer superstars."  ref FOWS

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on August 10, 2019, 02:59:40 PM
I've got to admire the volunteers who try to tidy up their area, especially those on the West Shore.     They do a worth while job but I feel that they are not getting the backing of their Councillors.
I've yet to hear one Councillor stand up and say " yes we made a mistake and got the West Shore beach defence wrong"
I've tried looking at the West Shore web cam but it's out of action at the moment and there is no way that I'll venture there and get sand blasted in this windy weather.
It's August now and I have never ever seen so much sand on the streets there at this time of the year.   The Councillor who lives on the front there can see the damage caused but doesn't appear to be doing anything to rectify it.   
It's a man made disaster but it's not too late to do something about it, if they have the will to do so.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on August 25, 2019, 10:52:04 AM
Another sandy saga, on Friday evening we walked down to Westshore , via Great Orme's  Rd., we noticed the amount of sand on the road and pavements, a little later we came across a gentleman stranded on his mobility scooter. the sand was six inches deep on the pavement, we tried to help. but had to enlist some stronger help, I am sure he would not have been there to long, but it is a disgrace, and shows that the blown sand is not just a nuisance.             sorry other photos not loading
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on August 25, 2019, 11:39:48 AM
Steve,  I know that I harp on about the sand on the West Shore but CCBC's lack of accepting blame for this is disgusting.

It is a man made ecological disaster that could have been avoided if only the powers that be listened to local people at the time.

I'm not saying any more about this mess and will leave the photos to tell the story.
The first was taken probably in the 1960's
The second was taken 1988 about 5 years after the ill fated sea defence was completed
The third was taken in 2019 about 25 years after the sea defence was completed

I defy anyone who is of sane mind to argue that it isn't CCBC's fault that the West Shore is in this situation
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on August 25, 2019, 03:37:07 PM
The missing photos from above.........  Hugo, the more that complain, is more for the council to ignore   $angry$

These photos are showing the Gt Orme Rd. which is about 100m from the prom. running parallel, which is why it builds up into dunes, with grass growing on them, which shows how long they have been left unattended.

We heard there was a swan on the lake, so we took some lettuce just in case............., looked fully grown, but very small.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on August 25, 2019, 03:57:54 PM
Hugo was it the 30s when the sea came over,that was before they built the walls so why did they have to mess about with them Boulder groynes 😡
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on August 25, 2019, 06:42:41 PM
The flood in the West Shore was in 1924 but they didn't build the sea defence until about 1952.       

To the best of my knowledge the sea has never come over that sea defence and there was no problem until the idiots built the 1993 sea defence and those groynes are part of the problem.
The other is that they imported sand to increase the level of the beach and the morons in CCBC, (sorry but there is no other word I can use)   then dumped the sand back over the wall above the high water mark

The Councillors who live in that area must be as much use as a chocolate tea pot
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Nemesis on August 25, 2019, 06:51:02 PM
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The flood in the West Shore was in 1924 but they didn't build the sea defence until about 1952.       

To the best of my knowledge the sea has never come over that sea defence and there was no problem until the idiots built the 1993 sea defence and those groynes are part of the problem.
The other is that they imported sand to increase the level of the beach and the morons in CCBC, (sorry but there is no other word I can use)   then dumped the sand back over the wall above the high water mark

The Councillors who live in that area must be as much use as a chocolate tea pot

couldn't agree more Hugo !
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on August 26, 2019, 09:08:56 AM
Well, it would have been the officers who made the recommendation to do the works.  Do we have access to the meeting minutes from when those recommendations were made and by whom?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on August 26, 2019, 10:52:48 AM
I think that it's too late to go down that line Ian as the damage has been done.     They employed "consultants" to come up with a plan for the  sea defence and I suspect that the CCBC chose the easiest and cheapest option without giving too much thought for the suitability of it for that particular location
What is ironic is that the CCBC alleged that the 1952 sea defence was being undermined and when I asked their office for an explanation of "undermined" they told me that it was due to a lack of sand.   
The extreme weather and stronger tides means that we do need more protection for the coast and the rock groyne by the Toll House does help to break the power of the water but it should never have been attached to the shore.  Also the two other stone groynes are not needed as they serve no purpose as the previous wooden groynes were working efficiently

The West Shore problem is not a natural one created by nature, it's man made and the only way it is ever going to be resolved is if CCBC  undo most of the work that was done in 1993.
Will they hold up their hands and admit that a mistake was made?   I very much doubt it

CCBC has done four things on the two beaches, the 1993 West Shore sea defence,  the West Shore cycle track,  the North Shore quarry waste and the concrete slipway by the yacht club.      Four things, four mistakes so at least they are consistent but where are our Councillors when we need them?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on August 26, 2019, 11:50:27 AM
What I was wondering, Hugo, was about the reasoning and research behind the scheme. At the time I questioned whether and to what degree there would be an increase in extreme weather events; the reasoning and research behind the decisions is what matters.

I suspect the position is simply that detailed research of the type that needs to be done by climatologists, hydrologists, geologists, fluid dynamicists and engineers is almost always way beyond the capabilities of the average CCBC councillor to comprehend, let alone challenge. But there's a problem: we (mostly justifiably) blame incompetence of CCBC councillors for the decisions they take, yet those decisions are taken based on the advice they're getting.

If they choose to ignore the advice, if anything untoward does happen then their necks are on the line. I'd also argue that sea defence issues are extremely complex, mathematical and engineering problems and the solutions are equally as complex and, as a result, are also way beyond the competencies of the average CCBC officials.

So in a sense it's probably unfair to blame the CCBC councillors entirely over this one. That's why I'm interested to see the original minutes, to see exactly who proposed the work and which company was involved. I'm also extremely interested to see the research done that led to the decision.

There's a lot of misinformation around and a lot of companies hoping to make a fast buck on the back of it. For example, a lot of people are unaware that North Wales and the NW of England are gradually rising while the SE and Norfolk are gradually sinking.

The N shore issues are another example.  We could have a wonderful, sandy beach restored there but it would cost millions and require the Army's Royal Corps of Engineers to do it. CCBC can't afford it.  But the question that ought to be asked is why isn't central government funding it? Coastal storm defence is a national issue, and shouldn't be dumped on local authorities to manage.

The other interesting point is about the stones dumped on the N Shore.  There's a great deal of kinetic energy in a major storm and the associated waves, so if we do get a repeat of the 1987 storm or storm Undine in 1991 it's possible that the water ingress will have such energy that it might well propel large stones across the road and into hotels.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on August 26, 2019, 12:14:16 PM
Hugo when they took that wooden jetty away ( below the imperial ), I said to a know it all councilor, hope they put that wood in storage then when you need to repair them two jetties by the pier you have the wood as that wood is not cheap, the look on his face 😂😡, on a few occasions I have said to the consultant working with ccbc ,Why didn't you mark some of the rocks on different sections, another daft look ,I said that would give you a proper ide of the movement.no Ian you can't always blame the councilors we know,but if they had listened to the people that know,  John Jones the donkey guy who reminded me how we played football on the sand by the pier in the late 50/early 60s ,and the boat lads.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on August 26, 2019, 02:55:02 PM
I did have some information on my computer about the 1993 sea defence at the West Shore but when my computer went kaput I lost that info along with everything else on it.
I do however still blame the CCBC councillors for this mistake.      They are the ones that allowed this to go through and irrespective of the advice that the Councillors were given they shouldn't automatically vote for something that they know if fundamentally wrong.
Who on earth would suggest that you increase the sand level on a West Shore beach by 10 feet knowing that the prevailing wind is westerly and often a howler at that.

The suggestion is beyond comprehension and although the Consultants had it worked out on paper it was doomed from the start.   Now if they were to apply an ounce of common sense that suggestion may have worked on an easterly facing beach like Colwyn Bay but on the West Shore it should have been a non starter.

Strangely the very same consultants came up with a suggestion for the North Shore and it was simply to build a breakwater out of large rocks that went across the Llandudno Bay from one Orme to the other.     CCBC should not have paid these consultants but should have sued them instead

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on August 26, 2019, 06:17:21 PM
I know what you're both saying, but it's the UIC law (law of unintended consequences). In the face of detailed 'expert' advice, how they could reasonably choose otherwise?  However, if we could see the minutes, we'd have an idea how the meeting went, perhaps.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on August 27, 2019, 07:46:33 AM
Ian. yesterday I spent some time reading the latest Llandudno Beach Development Plan.   I only read about the West Shore and it seemed like the longest half hour of my life
I can understand now  why the Councillors don't read or fully digest the thousands of words on the matter and the dozens of theories that these consultants put forward.   Nevertheless, even to an untrained person common sense should prevail

Just to briefly pick up some points in the report such as "  The relatively high beach levels in the lee of the Gogarth Breakwater are an indication of the success of the breakwater in protecting the beach"
That statement is a joke, the high level of beach was caused by the importation of about 10 feet of sand when the groynes were built and it has been added to it when they dump the windblown sand back over

One suggestion I did like and agree with is the removal of all three rock groynes together with all the imported sand that covers the steps on the sea defence

One other suggestion they made was the raised walkway where the cycle track is on the sand dunes.    The track was to be made of wood or recycled plastic and raised above the existing cycle track.    It is proposed to raise the track by a staggering 300 mm so I had to convert that into feet and inches so I could understand how high they were proposing to raise this proposed structure

Now 300 mm is just under 12 inches so knowing that the sand on the cycle track is often over 5 feet I cannot comprehend the logic behind this train of thought so I'll leave all this to the experts and the Councillors to sort out
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on August 27, 2019, 01:48:53 PM
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Ian. yesterday I spent some time reading the latest Llandudno Beach Development Plan.   I only read about the West Shore and it seemed like the longest half hour of my life


 _))*  That's why the councillors voted in favour.  I find it hard to believe I'm actually defending their actions, but in this case I suspect the report authors successfully confounded both councillors and officials. The latter group should have sought an Independent opinion; Bangor Uni has a world-recognised Oceanography Department, largely funded by the EU (something else we'll lose if brexit happens) and they have some fine fluid dynamicists who would gladly have cast their highly educated eyes over the document and perhaps shed a little light.

Having said all that, there were quite a lot of families playing on the extended beach there today.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on August 27, 2019, 05:41:44 PM
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Ian. yesterday I spent some time reading the latest Llandudno Beach Development Plan.   I only read about the West Shore and it seemed like the longest half hour of my life

Having said all that, there were quite a lot of families playing on the extended beach there today.

 It is a lovely beach and in particular the stretch by the sand dunes, but best visited when there is no wind about
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Ian on August 28, 2019, 09:39:01 AM
True...  {}{}
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on September 02, 2019, 04:30:32 PM
Driving along Westshore today, I was shocked to see that the sand pile that caused the mobility scooter, mentioned above to get stuck in approx 6 inches of sand, is now nearly 3 feet, and into the road.    $angry$

Seeing the lack of council work, only makes the efforts of "Friends of West" shore, a group, who deserves our thanks.

FOWS recent post....

"We resumed the working party session today after a break for the bank holiday. The paths have now all been cleared. the sessions have been very successful, so many thanks to all taking part. I think the next major task is to  tackle  the wind blown sand by the pumping station, (marram grass project).
Apart from these designated work party sessions we"d like to thank the volunteers who have done their own work on a daily/weekly basis - litter picking, watering the flowers in the boat (Sue), painting the benches around the boating lake, skimming the lake for debris (Phil), general weeding along there prom. "
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on September 21, 2019, 11:43:41 AM
With our chat on the weather thread, and screen grabbing, I have been looking at my Westshore photos over the last few years, this one had me stumped for awhile............... who was driving a small car over the rooftops ?
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Cordyline on October 14, 2019, 11:59:30 AM
Looking at this screen shot from West Shore Café web-cam
Is that the lighthouse off Puffin Island ?
At night it appears to flash once every five seconds
(https://i.imgur.com/tdCv5BDh.png)
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: spotty dog on October 14, 2019, 12:55:39 PM
Trwyn Du Lighthouse
Trwyn Du Lighthouse was built by Trinity House in 1838 to mark the north entrance to the Menai Strait

Built1838Height of Tower22 mHeight of light above Mean High Water19 mAutomated1922Optic1st Order catadioptric fixedCharacterFl 5sIntensity3,088 candelaRange of light12 NMRegionWest
The island of Anglesey, off the coast of North Wales, must be rounded by coastal shipping making the passage up or down the western seaboard, and as a consequence of its position in a busy seaway has several major lights.

Skerries was built first, followed a century later by South Stack and Point Lynas, the latter after the wreck of the Rothesay Castle on Puffin Island at the entrance to the Menai Strait in 1830.

The Liverpool master pilots had already been consulted about the necessity for a light on the shore at Black Point, or Trwyn-du, but no action was taken until late in the 1830s when Trinity House built the present station. The lighthouse is situated on a low-lying rock surrounded by shingle beaches about half a mile south of Puffin Island. The circular stone tower is distinguished by three black bands.

The lighthouse was originally manned by two keepers, however these were withdrawn in 1922 when the lighthouse was converted to unwatched acetylene operation.

Trwyn Du Lighthouse was converted to solar power in 1996, work to modernise the station included the development of a unique operating mechanism to work the 178kg fog bell. The lighthouse is now monitored and controlled from Trinity House’s Planning Centre in Harwich, Essex.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on October 19, 2019, 11:16:31 AM
This info from a local newsletter...  again I think FOWS deserve a  clappinghappy

"The Friends of West Shore latest project is to hand transplant Marram grass from the main dunes to the area between the boating lake and the pumping station, in order to "catch" sand and to prevent build up at the Abbey rd. end of West Shore, the county's Ecologist is very positive about the scheme, working parties will begin trialing certain areas this autumn, and if successful the group would like to expand the project."
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 19, 2019, 11:50:02 AM
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This info from a local newsletter...  again I think FOWS deserve a  clappinghappy"


I don't believe it!   &shake&    the FOWS deserve  *punch*

Two pictures,  one from 1988  one from the present day

The Council has a lot to answer for      *tumble*
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on October 19, 2019, 12:20:00 PM
 
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This info from a local newsletter...  again I think FOWS deserve a  clappinghappy"
I don't believe it!   &shake&    the FOWS deserve  *punch*

Hugo, Am I misunderstanding your reply ? are you saying FOWS do not deserve a thank you ?


Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 19, 2019, 07:05:36 PM
A thank you for what exactly Steve?       

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: norman08 on October 19, 2019, 08:00:36 PM
Steve as Hugo states the council have a lot to answer, The Sandhills ( dunes) where under the golf course the idiots wretcked them,they put Rock groynes in and made sand dunes in the middle of our once lovely beach they planted grass there hasn't worked, so how will it work further on, as Hugo and a few of us keep saying the fine sand only become a problem when the idiots started messing, this council done this mess at westshore and north shore after the 93 floods don't think they can still fathom out it was the rain and Not the sea,  FOW and them two belters councilors have allowed the toilets on westshore to be out of order all summer.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on October 20, 2019, 10:59:36 AM
I can understand your views regarding the council and some councillors, but I am still at a loss as to why FOWS do not deserve thanks, this is a group who volunteer to help improve the West Shore prom area, with projects, just a few of the many, mentioned on here recently,  surely a volunteer group cannot be blamed for council incompetence. 
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 20, 2019, 12:09:49 PM
Steve,  I am not in any way putting down the FOWS as they should be congratulated for the work that they have carried out in that area.  They have done far more on the West Shore than the CCBC or those Councillors allegedly representing the West Shore have ever done

Having said that the suggestion of planting Marram grass on what should be a lawn I find offensive to the residents of the area who can remember it as it was in the days prior to the ecological disaster created by the Council in 1993

marram grass, bent grass, and beachgrass.[2] These grasses are found almost exclusively on the first line of coastal sand dunes. Their extensive systems of creeping underground stems or rhizomes allow them to thrive under conditions of shifting sands and high winds, and to help stabilise and prevent coastal erosion.  They are for planting on sand dunes not on lawns, concrete steps or parts of a promenade

Whatever next?     Are they going to suggest planting Marram grass on the sand dunes in Abbey Road or that the residents replace their lawns with the stuff and grow Cactii instead of flowers in order to accommodate the disaster that  man has made

The answer is simple.    They are considering removing the quarry waste from the North Shore and then replace it with an appropriate alternative.   Why then don't they remove the artificial beach level and groynes on the West Shore and sand on the lawned area and replace it with something more suitable to that area.

As Norman has said since the Sea Defence on the West Shore was built in the early 1950's that area has never been flooded.   Why shouldn't the West Shore be treated the same as the North Shore.   If Councils will insist in interfering with nature then they should make sure that they know exactly what they are doing.     At the West Shore and the North Shore this Council has just proved the point that they don't


Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on October 20, 2019, 01:40:20 PM
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Steve,  I am not in any way putting down the FOWS as they should be congratulated for the work that they have carried out in that area.  They have done far more on the West Shore than the CCBC or those Councillors allegedly representing the West Shore have ever done

I agree completely, I have often thought they were doing the councils job for them.

The Marram grass project, I took at face value, someone trying a solution, for a problem, that should have been dealt with long ago, I also assumed the grasses would be planted on the first line of defense, and not the grassed areas, I had a look on their FB page and found this ...........   
"had a meeting with Welsh Water to get their input on our planned project to plant marram grass near the pumping station (they own the land we wanted to use). The intent is to transplant the marram grass to try and capture the blown sand we get during high winds.

Welsh Water are happy for us to proceed and feel it may also benefit them if it keeps sand off some of their access manholes. So we hope to plan out our next stage next Monday - and finally many thanks to Welsh Water for their support."

I copied a frame showing the pumping station, so I could see the area in question, it is going to need a big clear up, I bet Jennings is saying his prayers.

Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: spotty dog on October 20, 2019, 02:59:18 PM
They need to stop retreating and go out and meet the sea it need not be anything substantial just enough to take the power out of the waves.
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 20, 2019, 03:44:39 PM
Whilst I applaud what the FOWS are trying to do, it does not address the problem.    The problem is the manner of the construction of the sea defence in 1993
Your photo highlights the problem caused by the first stone groyne and the one I have attached shows the three areas of sand problems and it is not a coincidence that the tree groynes are where the problems are.
The main problems are that the groynes are attached to the shoreline and prevent the natural flow of water.   The second and most idiotic problem is that they artificially increased the height of the beach with sand knowing full well that the prevailing wind is a westerly one.
The first groyne has also affected the way the tide comes in and altered the sandbanks there, while the third one according to a forum member has had a detrimental affect on the Deganwy coastline
As any local person of a certain age can tell you the third groyne replaced the black rocks which was a natural feature that filtered and slowed down the flow of water so I don't understand the reason for that third groyne anyway
Spotty Dog is correct with his suggestion but will the powers that be take any notice of local knowledge?    I doubt they will
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: SteveH on October 21, 2019, 12:02:24 PM
I was having a look at the earlier posts on this thread, some interesting comments and photos, will continue later,...... I have found a link to five aerial photos, I think showing the construction of the West Shore steps in 1950, and an old post card, showing the groynes.

https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/WAW031510
Title: Re: West Shore Issues
Post by: Hugo on October 21, 2019, 12:27:41 PM
Thanks for posting the photo Steve, it shows how much the town has expanded over the years.    I enjoyed the link too and the photo of the Gogarth Abbey Hotel highlights the point about the development on the site.
The rough ground on the right hand side of the photo was the bit of land I made enquiries with Mostyn Estates about.  As it turned out that part was leased and then sub leased so I didn't do anything about it