Three Towns Forum
The Local => Genealogy & Research => Topic started by: PhilMick on September 10, 2016, 10:41:11 am
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Hi - Warwick Green was knocked of his bicycle on Maesdu Bridge on Christmas Eve 1958. He died the following day, Christmas Day. My wife believes he was returning from seeing his girlfriend safely home.
His address is given as: Sunray, Herkomer Crescent.
We are interested in seeing any press or coroner text with regard to the RTA.
Can anyone help?
Phil
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What a sad story PhilMick, so young too it was tragic. I was around at that time but can't recall the incident but knew of a family called Green.
If the incident was reported in the local press then it would have been in either the North Wales Weekly News or the Llandudno Advertiser.
Unfortunately the papers are not online for 1958 but copies would be available in the Conwy Archives though.
We have members on the forum who lived in the West Shore area and they may be able to help with details etc
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Hugo - Warwick was my wife's second cousin. William Herbert Hughes was his uncle. I believe the Greens were originally living on Alexander Road.
Yes it is sad - my wife's mother, Amy, would often mention it around Christmas.
We would both appreciate any help as it is difficult for us to get to Llandudno during the week.
Thanks
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PhilMick, I go to the Archives so it's no trouble for me to have a look at those papers I've mentioned and if I find anything about Warwick then I'll have it photocopied and post it on here.
I know that there are a number of forum members who were from the West Shore area and they may be able to add to anything that may be found in those papers.
With regard to William Herbert Hughes I did find a person of that name living in Old Colwyn but have no way of finding out if he was your relative as I suspect that those papers are in Ruthin.
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PhilMick, I've been to the Conwy Archives today and found what you were looking for. The Obituary was in a January edition of the 1959 Llandudno Advertiser, it's quite long and includes a photo of Warwick. He seemed to be a popular person and was a smart looking young man it's so sad to read the obituary of such a young person who had a promising future ahead of him
The next article was in February and was about the accident itself.
I haven't made any notes but I've ordered digital images of both articles and they will be e-mailed to me by the Archives asap.
When I receive them I will post them on here straight away
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Thank you Hugo.
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this article rang a bell in my memory, I think Warwick was riding a Vincent Black Shadow, although I might be mixing it up with another incident
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oops I"ve just noticed the dates, he was only 10 yrs old.
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Hi - that should be 1958. He was around 20.
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oops I"ve just noticed the dates, he was only 10 yrs old.
The heading of the post is wrong Quiggs it should have been 1938 to 1958 so Warwick would have been about 20 then and you could be right with what you have said.
When I get the e-mail from the Archives I'll post it on here and we can see the details.
Hope that you are keeping ok Quiggs
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Also the Tombstone says December 25th - but the first post on here says Christmas Eve?
Did the accident happen Christmas Eve and he died the following day or was it a Christmas Day the accident happened.
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The accident happened on Christmas Eve but sadly he died in Llandudno Hospital on Christmas day. I'm still waiting for an e-mail from the Archives which will tell us more about the accident
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PhilMick, I have just received the e-mail from the Archives and downloaded the images sent. I have had to resize them to fit on here but if you have any problems with looking at them please let me know.
I've had a quick look through the articles and they make very sad reading indeed.
It would seem from the last paragraph:-
" Coleclough, who pleaded not guilty, reserved his defence" that there may have been another article in the paper at a later date when the trial took place
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Thank you Hugo.
Very very sad.
I'll read them again but it doesn't mention the name of his girlfriend.
I wonder if my wife will recognise him as she was just 7 years old at the time.
Phil
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PhilMick, I've just read the article again and it really was an awful tragedy. I didn't live that far from the scene of the accident and can't understand why I can't remember it happening. There are older members on here that may have a better recollection of it than me,
Looking through the articles again, Warwick was taking his girlfriend back to Conwy when it happened so presumably she lived there. In the Obituary notice there was a reference to a Mr &Mrs Jones (Conway) and Dilys, I just wonder if Dilys was the girlfriend.
In the report of the trial which we haven't seen yet, I would imagine his girlfriend, if she was well enough would appear as a witness and would therefore be named in the press. That's just a guess, no more than that.
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It would appear that my memory is better than I thought, I used to ride with the Llandudno Motor Cycle Club, I didn't know Warwick but had heard of him. :(
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Hi Quiggs - are you a Quigley?
phil
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Hugo - thanks again.
My wife doesn't remember Warwick. However, she went to his home, Sunray, many times. Warwick's mum, Flora, made the bridesmaids dresses for a family wedding. My wife was one of the bridesmaids.
The flowers from list in the obit brought back memories of long gone family for her. Her mum and dad were there: Amy and Jock.
I'm hoping to be in Llandudno for the school half term in October so that I can look for the court case report.
Phil
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PhilMick, I've been looking online to find a date for the trial but couldn't find one. I'm likely to go to the Archives again soon so I'll ask for a search to be made on their computer and it will help to find the article.
It should have been held in 1959 sometime and as the paper is a weekly paper there isn't a lot to look through anyway. I'll let you know if I have any luck finding it.
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Hi PhilMick, in answer to your query, No. 8)
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Interesting case Hugo. The Assizes were not held on a rolling basis like Crown Courts. Usually only two or three times a year and presided over by a "Red" or high Court Judge who heard cases of murder, rape, woundings etc so what befell John Warwick Green was regarded very seriously.
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Thanks Cambrian for that interesting bit of info, I was rather hoping that someone would know how to narrow that search down so that we have some idea what dates we need to look at in the Llandudno Advertiser.
It should be in 1959 as the Police would have been able to prepare the case during that year.
As you say it was a serious case and to make matters worse it was really a hit and run accident that proved fatal for Warwick and we don't know what injuries his girlfriend sustained.
It would have to be a custodial sentence for that type of crime and I knew about someone else whose driving caused the death of a passenger in his car and I think that a manslaughter verdict was given and a jail sentence of about 2 years imposed
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Hi, what a sad story.; There is a probate entry for him on Ancestry, the beneficiary was Alexander John Green , shop manager, if this info is of any use
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Thank you all for your help.
Phil
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PhilMick, I called at the Archives today and found a summary of the Trial at Caernarfon. It was in the Saturday 16th May 1959 edition of the Llandudno Advertiser.
I have ordered a digital copy of the column and as soon as it I receive it then I will post it on here for you. A very brief summary is that William Colclough collapsed in the dock after the jury acquited him on a charge of causing death by dangerous driving.
Warwick's girlfriend Dilys Jones of Conwy was injured in the crash but it did not say exactly what injuries were caused
The crash happened on Maesdu Avenue Llandudno near the junction with Bryn Gosel Road.
I travelled along that stretch on my way home today and it is on a bend and I can remember when I used to play golf at Maesdu Golf Club and had to cross the road there, we were always aware of the traffic coming from Deganwy and had to cross very carefully.
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PhilMick, I've attached the article about the trial that I found in the Llandudno Advertiser. Hope that it comes out ok but please contact me if you have any problem with it.
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Thanks for taking the time to find the report.
It's on my wife's family tree now for all the Owen, Hughes, Kavanagh and Green families of West Shore and further.
Thanks again.
PhilMick
PS Not quite the outcome we expected from the earlier reports you posted.
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My thoughts too, especially with all those independent witnesses