Three Towns Forum
The Local => Genealogy & Research => Topic started by: StephMartin on October 17, 2014, 04:35:06 pm
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I'm looking for information on Clara/Clarie Pearson, born 1895, daughter of Thomas Pearson who owned a few hotels in Conwy.
Clarie married Leonard Curtis in 1921 and ran The Towers, on Trinity Square with him.
Leonard Curtis is my great-grandfather.
Rumour has it that there was a daughter, Cynthia. I don't know if Leonard was her father. I can't find a birth record for Cynthia, I don't even know when she was born.
Claire died in 1931 and apparently, Leonard took Cynthia with him when he moved away from Wales in the mid 30's.
If Cynthia is Leonard's daughter, that makes her and her descendants relatives of mine and I would love to know more and possibly track them.
I live in Norfolk so can't access a lot of records that may be held in Conwy, I hope to visit soon though!
Any help would be very much appreciated!
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I've tried www.RootsUK.com (http://www.RootsUK.com) but there is no registration of a birth for Cynthia Curtis in the Conwy Registration District during the years you have mentioned. In fact out of the 18 listed in the years mentioned there are no entries for anyone in Wales
It is of course possible that if there was a birth that it could be registered somewhere in England.
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I was in the Conwy Archives today and had a look at the Burial Index for St Tudno's Church on the Great Orme but didn't find a grave for Clara Curtis but did find her grave under Clara Pearson. This is a copy of the inscription on her headstone at Plot G210:-
" In affectionate remembrance of Clara the beloved daughter of Mr & Mrs T Pearson of Coventry who passed away Nov 19th 1931 aged 36 years.
We miss her most, who loved her best"
I looked at the Llandudno Advertiser ( Llandudno's local paper then) and in the photo you can see the obituary notice from Nov 1931. It mentions her bereaved husband Leonard Curtis but doesn't mention any family members which seems strange.
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I was hoping that the obituary notice may have provided something about Cynthia but it didn't and actually provided more questions than answers. So I went back to the Archives today.
I looked at the 1922 Street Index and it showed Mrs Curtis at The Towers Trinity Street (as it was called then)
I then looked at the Llandudno Baptism Register from 1917 - 1943 and could find no entry for a Cynthia Curtis or a Cynthia Pearson. Clara died in 1931 but I continued to look through the Register and found this interesting bit of information:-
No 928 29th January 1933
Merfyn Leonard Maurice son to Leonard and Edith Barbara Curtis of Curtis' Hotel Trinity Square Llandudno Leonard Curtis' occupation Hotel prop.
I have already checked on line and cannot find any record for the birth of a Cynthia Curtis or Cynthia Pearson at Llandudno and the fact that there was no entry in the Llandudno Baptism records does not prove that she never existed so it remains a mystery.
You can see from the Grave headstone that it must have been paid for by Clara's parents and not her husband and the obituary notice seems more about Leonard Curtis than his deceased wife which is strange. Leonard has obviously got married and had a son within a very short time after his wife's death and I may be wrong but something has happened to cause what appears to be a rift between Clara's parents and Leonard Curtis.
I don't know what more I can do to help you here but I know Dennis Pearson whose parents had the Towers and if I see him I'll ask him if he knows anything
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Just a thought Hugo, was there anything in the previous edition given the comment "whose death was reported last week"?
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That's a good point Cambrian and thanks for pointing it out, but I did check it out and there was nothing there, it was just a very brief announcement so that's why I didn't have it photocopied.
I did read the obituary notice though after my visit to the Archives today and found something out and wished that I had noticed it before I went to the Archives.
The Baptism records I looked at were for Llandudno but there was a separate one for St Andrews Church and I didn't look at that. When I reread the obituary notice I could see that he had earlier connections with St Andrews Church and if Cynthia was born in the early part of the marriage she may have been Baptised there at St Andrew's.
I'll pop over to the Archives again on Tuesday next after my coffee morning in Llandudno, so fingers crossed that something may turn up.
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Thanks Hugo. St Andrew's was a temporary building at the junction of Dyffryn Road and Trinity Avenue (some flats there now). It was an outpost of the parish of Llanrhos to cater for the King's Road/Alex Road area which was in that parish rather than Llandudno Parish.
The boundaries were altered some time in the 1930s and followed the railway line. Some of the old original boundary stones are still extant eg in Albert Street and St David's Place.
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I remember the building as being a low corrugated iron one. I think that it may have been red in colour but my memory is vague on that point.
I've seen those boundary stones that you are referring to, I bet a lot of people don't even know about them. I'm glad that they have kept them because they are part of the town's history
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That's a lovely old photo Suepp, can you remember whether that main entrance was in Trinity Avenue or that side road?
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Subject to what anyone else might say, it looks to me as though the houses on the left of the church are the back of King's Place. That being so, the entrance is off Dyffryn Road.
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I was thinking that, but was it on the corner of Lees Road and Trinity Ave?
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I was thinking that, but was it on the corner of Lees Road and Trinity Ave?
It would have to be Lees Road as that is between King's Place & Dyffryn Road.
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I agree it is Lees Road - I recall Dyffryn Dairies being on the corner which confused me!
"Streets of Llandudno" records: The name (of St Andrew's Avenue) comes from a 1908 church, affectionately known as the "Tin Church". It became disused in 1960 when costly repairs were needed. The site was sold to fund the building of a church hall at Church of Our Saviour at West Shore to which the congregation transferred. The church was burnt down on 9th August 1963 make way for the erection of the residential flats called Trinity Court on Trinity Avenue.
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You probably know this already but according to Roots UK Leonard Curtis married Clarie Pearson in the Foleshill Registration District in the Quarter Oct to Dec 1921
Clara ? Clarie died 19th Nov 1931
Leonard Curtis married Edith B Maslin in the Conwy Registration District in the Quarter Jan to Mar 1932
It appears therefore that Leonard remarried within a few weeks of Clara's death
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I called at the Archives again to see if I could find out any more info about Clara or Cynthia but couldn't find out any more.
The 1929 Llandudno Street Index showed Mr & Mrs L Curtis as running the "boarding house"
The 1939 Llandudno Street Index showed Mr T Pearson as being the proprietor so Leonard Curtis would have moved on by then.
There are no birth records for Llandudno at the Conwy Archives
I had a look at the Baptism Records for St Andrews Church from 1922 but could find no children being baptised for Leonard and Clara
By pure coincidence there was a Baptism for Eveline Hyacinth Curtis on 22nd May 1922 but her parents were Charles and Emma Curtis of St Leonards, Bentley Doncaster and Charles was a clerk by trade.
I couldn't ascertain who paid for the grave of Clara but the headstone was bought by Mr & Mrs T Pearson. Graves have to settle before the headstones can be laid and this can take a few months but by then Leonard Curtis would have remarried.
I'm sorry but I haven't been able to find out anything about Cynthia and unless I have a chance meeting in town with Denis Pearson then I seem to have exhausted every option open to me and hope that someone else may have the info you are looking for.
I've no idea what happened for definite between Leonard and Clara but from what I've read, if there was a child from the marriage then I would imagine that the Pearson family brought her up, but I could be wrong.
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Leonard was hated by the Pearson family as he fathered a child with Edith in 1930.
Hyacinth is an incredible discovery! Charles Curtis is Leonard's brother. The confusing thing is, when searching for Hyacinth's birth record, she is shown as Evelyn Hyacinth Curtis, 1922, in Chester and her mother's maiden name is PEARSON!
I think Evelyn Hyacinth is CYNTHIA. I have ordered her birth certificate and I am desperate to see what it says!
Is she actually Leonard and Clara's? They were married late 1921 and she was born early 1922. Being a man of the church, perhaps he felt ashamed that he had fathered a child out of wedlock and so registered the birth in Chester. Why then baptise the child naming Charles and Emma as her parents?
Oh family secrets!
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Clara definitely had a child in her lifetime as her death certificate mentioned she had a c-section.
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From what I have found out, I suspected something like that had happened to Leonard. Clara probably got married in England because bride's normally got married in the town where they lived.
I don't know the exact date Clara married, but if Hyacynth was her child then Clara must have been well and truly pregnant when she married. You could be correct there and Hyacynth (or Cynthia) could have been adopted by Charles and Emma to save any embarrassment to Leonard and Clara
I've reread the obituary again and also notes I have made and will go to the Archives again to have a look at the Baptism records for St Beuno's and St Andrews (prior to 1922) but doubt if anything will be there.
I'll post any results on here next week.
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Thank you ever so much for your help!
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You're very welcome and I hope you can find the answers you are looking for.
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Hyacinth is an incredible discovery! Charles Curtis is Leonard's brother. The confusing thing is, when searching for Hyacinth's birth record, she is shown as Evelyn Hyacinth Curtis, 1922, in Chester and her mother's maiden name is PEARSON!
I think Evelyn Hyacinth is CYNTHIA. I have ordered her birth certificate and I am desperate to see what it says!
Oh family secrets!
I would be very interested too as I've tried numerous times on different sites and Cynthia Curtis/ Pearson has not appeared on any. On the other hand Eveline Hyacinth Curtis has appeared quite easily. That isn't definite prove that Cynthia didn't exist but the Birth Certificate should be very interesting and may explain a few things
I'll still go to the Archives though as I'm quite intrigued by it all.
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I went to the Archives again today but couldn't find anything in the Baptism records for "Cynthia"
In fact the Baptism Records for St Andrews start from 1922 and "Hyacynth" was the first entry No1 there.
The records for St Beuno's are from 1952 0nwards
I did have a look in the main Baptism Records for Llandudno which were up to 1917 just in case Clara had a baby prior to marrying Leonard but there were no entries recorded
I'm just hoping that the Birth Certificate for Eveline Hyacinth Curtis throws some light on this mystery, can't wait until you receive a copy of it
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I have some fantastic news!
Evelyne Hyacinth Curtis, born 18/02/1922 to Leonard Curtis and Clarice Pearson, at a nursing home in Chester.
This must be Cynthia.
Why was she baptised as her Uncle Charles being her father? How strange.
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Do you know how I would go about getting a copy of the Baptism record?
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Do you know how I would go about getting a copy of the Baptism record?
Yes, I'll get it for you when I next go to the Archives. They will probably photo copy it for me and then I can put it on here if that's ok with you.
That is fantastic news about the Birth Certificate and it's solved the mystery of "Cynthia" Perhaps Cynthia was just their pet name for Hyacinth.
Leonard must have been embarrassed with his connection with the Churches and hence the subterfuge. He didn't learn his lesson though as he put Edith up the duff too.
Naughty boy Leonard $smack$
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That's great thank you, yes feel free to post the copy on here.
My next step is to find a marriage for Evelyn and see if we can track down any living descendants! So exciting to have found a new branch of our tree.
Thank you for all your help!
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I've posted a copy from the Baptism Records (for St Andrews Church) as promised, please note the spelling of Eveline which may help in your search for further info on "Cynthia"
Good luck with your searches $good$
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Thank you so much for you help
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You're very welcome. $good$
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Thanks Hugo for pointing me in the right direction! I was really interested to hear about Leonard Curtis's re marriage. This certainly fits with the tit bits my parents hinted at!! Is StephMartin related through Leonard Curtis's second marriage?
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I'm not sure, but I can understand why StephMartin said that the Pearson family hated Leonard.
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Likewise! That's certainly the impression my parents gave . I will certainly give Denis a ring and see if he knows what happened to Cynthia.
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Would you please pass on my regards to Denis when you speak to him. I was in the Boys Brigade many years ago and Denis was one of the leaders then.
We used to see each other outside Marks and Spencers and stop and have a chat. Tell him Brian is asking about him
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Will do.
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I have spoken to Denis and given him your regards,Hugo. He knows a little bit about Cynthia. He thought she was married twice . Her first husband was possibly a policeman. She had two sons and lived in Portsmouth. Denis thinks she died a few years ago. Apparently she used to keep in contact with Olive Pearson who was Clarie's sister. That's all he can remember and,like me, he is reliant on what he has been told by the family as Denis wasn't born until 1933. Perhaps the Portsmouth connection might be of help to StephMartin. We don't seem to have any idea who Cynthia lived with after Clarie's death. Denis seemed to think she may have stayed with her grandparents but I'm not so sure. Perhaps she went with Leonard Curtis and his new wife!!
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Thanks for passing on my regards to Denis, it's been a while since I last saw him and hope that he is keeping ok.
As for Cynthia, I can't help you there but I'm sure that you'll find out in due course. It sounds like Cynthia would have been better off if she had stayed with her Grandparents but if she had then more would have been known about her life so the probability is that she went with Leonard Curtis and his new wife and child.
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Hello again! Wow thank you Gill that's ever so helpful!
I am Leonard's great-grandaughter.
After Clarie's death, Cynthia moved with Leonard and his new wife (my great-grandma) to Ipswich. Leonard had 3 more children with my great-grandma. He died in 1975.
The Portsmouth connection should help us learn more about Cynthia's life. Her son's would be my mother's cousins, so she is very excited at the prospect of tracking them down.
Once again, thank you for your help.
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A pleasure! I hope you are successful in tracking down the Portsmouth connection. I hope it's not a wild goose chase. Thanks for the information about Cynthia. We had no idea what happened to her after Clarie's death. She must have been only about ten. I'd really be interested to hear how you get on. Good luck.
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Mum and I have decided to visit Conwy! We'll be there on Tuesday 14th. Will be lovely to visit the area, see the Towers hotel (even if it is a block of flats now!) and the Church Leonard and Edith were married in. We'll also be visiting Clarie's grave.
If Gill or Denis would like to meet up to talk that would be lovely :)
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Steph
So sorry I've just picked up your message. Perhaps I should explain that I now live near Stratford on Avon and am just recovering from a second hip replacement so, unfortunately, I won't be able to meet up with you in Llandudno on Tuesday. I would have loved to see you and your mum. I've done a lot of work on my family tree and you have filled in some of the gaps about Cynthia. Can you tell me any more about her life with Leonard? Good luck with your visit. Clarie's grave is in the old part of the cemetery and was very overgrown the last time we saw it. The Towers is very much as it always was with just an extension to the side. I spent all my young life there until I went away to college so I have very happy memories! Please let me know how you get on and keep in touch.
Gill
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StephMartin, The weather forecast is good for Tuesday so I hope that you and your Mother will enjoy your visit. As Gill Mill has said Clara's grave is in the old Cemetery and within the walls of St Tudno's Church.
Plot G 210 will be in the section on the left before you go through the gate to the new Cemetery. I can't describe exactly where it is but I think that the name on the headstone will be Pearson and not Curtis, so I hope you can find it without too much trouble
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Hi my name is Alison Curtis, Leonard Curtis was my grandad making Cynthia as she was known in the family my cousin. Thank you all for the help you have given Steph in our research. I was wondering if anyone has any photos of the Towers Hotel or The Pearson family, have all these names now and would love to put pictures to the names. Wish I could find any information on what Leonards connection to the churches were if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated. Many Thanks Alison
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This is a copy of the obituary of Mrs Curtis and contains some info about Leonard Curtis' connection with the Churches. I've got no other info about him but would imagine that the Conwy Archives in Lloyd Street may have more details about him.
The Towers hotel has been converted into nice apartments now. I see Denis Pearson sometimes but have no photos of him or the other members of the Pearson family
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Thank you I will try the churches and see if they can help
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Just a note on St Andrew's Church. This was a temporary building erected in 1908 to serve the King's Road and Alexandra Road area of the Llanrhos Parish. It ceased to be used in 1960 (most people were attending Church of our Saviour on West Shore by then) as it needed repairs. The building burnt down in 1963 and the land sold to fund the building of a church hall at Church of Our Saviour. The site is now occupied by flats called Trinity Court.
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There are some photos on the forum somewhere of the old tin Church that was St Andrews. St Beuno's Church on the Great Orme has also closed and is now a private residence.
I took the photos of the former Towers Hotel today and in the second photo you can see how near it is to Trinity Church
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I found some information in the St Paul's church registers whilst looking for something else today:
Baptism on 7th September 1924
Annie Gertrude, daughter of William Henry and Clara Emily Pearson of Newhome, Trinity Street, Llandudno (now Trinity Avenue).
This may be of help.