Three Towns Forum
The Local => Genealogy & Research => Topic started by: jom on August 31, 2013, 12:24:07 am
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I'm afraid this topic was struck by spam so removed but have an update from the RNLI. There would appear to have been only one John Owen which would be why the article showed him as 5th in command of the Thomas and Annie Wade Richards wearing his bronze medal. This was earned in 1919 as coxswain of the Theodore Price.
John was born 17 Feb 1865 and became bowman Jan 1905. He attained 2nd Coxsawin 1 Oct 1907 and 1st Coxswain 1 Jan 1918. He retired at the age of 62 on 31 Mar 1930 and died 29 Dec 1951. He was a painter by trade.
This means he was not my 2 G Uncle but with more research to perform, I suspect he was the son of Robert and Catherine Owen. This links to a previous thread re another John Owen, as Robert I believe, was the son of John and Alice Owen of the Prince of Wales. John of the Prince of Wales being my 4 G Grandfather. SO, it would seem he is likely to be of my tree ... yet to be confirmed. Many thanks to Dave (you know who you are) and Hugo. This may well have solved a VERY long standing mystery. Just a shame my Dad isn't around to be able to tell him my thoughts!
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Hi Jom, pleased to see your posting back again. I was in the Archives this week and had a quick look at bits about the RNLI in Llandudno.
What I have found differs a bit from your latest posting as the report I read said that John Owen took over as 2nd Coxswain in 1904. He then became Coxswain in Jan 1918 as you say and was awarded the Bronze medal by RNLI for his rescue of the crew of the "Ada Mary" on 27th March 1919.
Now I think that there were two John Owens, the above who served on the Theodore Price and the other one who served on The Thomas and Anne Wade Richards.
My reasons for thinking this are:-
1) John Owen of the Theodore Price retired on 31st March 1930 aged 62 but the Thomas and Anne Wade Richards was operational from 1933 to 1953 and also that it would be unlikely that having attained the post of Coxswain he would then come back as 5th in command.
2) This is a photo of the crew of the Theodore Price taken about 1915 when John Owen was the 2nd Coxswain. I would imagine John to be one of the two people at the rear of the boat wearing caps and neither looks like the John Owen in your photo,
These are only my observations without any conclusive proof but if you e-mail the Llandudno RNLI as you previously mentioned you would do then they would have the answers you are looking for
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Thanks for re posting that picture. The RNLI said they only had the one John Owen so I took it to mean including crew members. I wondered if John could have called upon to "come out of retirement" in extreme circumstances health etc permitting hence the "5th" in command. I'm will be replying to the RNLI to clarify. I have copied the initial response I had below.
"Thank you for your enquiry of the 23rd August. Our Assistant Librarian, Peter Moorman, has supplied the following information;
John Owen (Painter)
Born 17.2.1865
Bowman – appointed 1.1905
Promoted
2nd coxswain 1.10.07
1st Coxswain – 1.1.18
Retired – Age 62 years 31.3.1930
Deacth – 29.12.1951
Unfortunately we have no record of another John Owen.
May I suggest you obtain a copy of the book ‘The Story of Llandudno Lifeboats’ by Jeff Morris (Lifeboat Enthusiasts Society) which details services carried out by the station naming the coxswain involved"
I have been given contact details (postal only possible) for the author so hope to post an enquiry to him as the book is not available through Amazon
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I'm not certain if the booklet I was reading in the archives was The story of Llandudno lifeboat or not. It was only a small thin book and Jeff Morris' book only has 25 pages. I'll check next time.
You may well be correct with your theory that John came back in extreme circumstances although he would have been 65 at least, he certainly looks fit for his age if that is the same person.
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Hugo - there's an interesting book entitled "Wreck and Rescue on the Coast of Wales" Vol 2 covers Llandudno RNLI. Written by Henry Parry and published in 1973. Possibly not much more than in Morris' book but the "Ada Mary" incident is mentioned. This book seems quite scarce now but they may well have one on the Archives or Reference Library.
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Thanks Cambrian, I'll have to have a look at that. $good$
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Thank you both. just waiting to find some appropriate moment to put pen to paper to Mr Morris! :-[
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My mum tells me that the man on the right, with the flat cap, at the back of the photograph that Hugo posted of the Theodore Price is John Isaac Jones who is her grandfather, and father to Ted Yr Ogof.
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That's strange Emma, because I can remember Ted Yr Ogof well and I seem to remember him wearing his cap similar to how John Isaac wore his. Ted was a great guy who always had time for a chat as we walked along the Promenade past his boat on the jetty.
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Hi Hugo, my mum also says what a lovely man Uncle Ted was,. I'm sorry, I must correct myself as the John Jones in the picture is Uncle Ted's father but his middle name is not Isaac as far as I know. His son is John Isaac. I've been doing a lot of family tree with my mum and she got mixed which is easy to do when both sides of the family have the same names. My mum also thinks that the John Owen could be the one Jom was talking about as she can remember her aunts talking about them although when she researched many years ago the dates didn't appear to be correct.
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I also remember Ted yr Ogof in the 1960s when he sold fresh fish from the North Shore Prom just by the jetty.
My grandmother used to send me down to buy fish from him and we ate them that night. He was a lovely man and his sudden, early, death shook the people of Llandudno back then.
Helig.
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Please does anybody know if Ted,s wife Lilian was a Duckinfield or a Barlow?
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Ted's son Ed is a forum member let's hope he is looking at the forum. Micox is also an expert on the Jones line and I'm sure that some others on here will give you the answer.
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Thank you for your prompt reply. Do you know how I can get in touch with Ed Jones as my mother would love to speak to him? $thanx$
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Emma, the system has changed on the forum for contacting members but try this and see if it works:-
Go to Times Past then click on People at page 15
The first entry is by Ed Jones and you'll see an envelope under his name
Click on that to see if you can e-mail him. Good luck
I haven't seen Eddie for about 50 years and hope that he is ok
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Just sent Eddie a message he said he will get on here tomorrow .
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Thanks for doing that Norman, I'm sure that Emma will be pleased when Ed gets in touch on here.
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Hello folks and thanks to Norman and Chris Rogers for letting me know about this thread. Lots of questions to answer here. The man in the stern of the Lifeboat is my Grandfather John(Jack) Jones. There is a mention of a son, John Isaac, My brother, Ted's eldest son was John Frederick. Isaac was my Great Grandfather.
My Mother Lillian was a Barlow, Sister to Walter and John.
Emma, you and your mother are obviously relations of mine I would really love to hear from you as there does not appear to be many of us left. My e mail address is as Hugo has stated, please get in touch as soon as you can.
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Thank you everybody for getting in touch with Ed. I've now emailed him, hopefully, as computers and me don't mix very well. Lilian's name has been annoying me but now I know the answer. I think she is related to my grandfather's family as Ted her husband was related to my grandmother's family. There are so many relatives from Llandudno that I never knew about. $thanx$
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Emma, I have not received an e mail from you yet. I think maybe you may have put the- in the wrong place. It should be_after the second 8. Please try again. $walesflag$
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Hi Ed, I've tried sending a personal message but it comes up error and says I'm not allowed, so I have tried sending it by clicking on the envelope again and both times it seems to send so fingers crossed you get this one! ££$
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Ed, just a suggestion here. Emma is having difficulty e-mailing you so why don't you e-mail her, as I can see that she has an e-mail envelope under her name. You can then give her your contact details without it going public.
Hope that you are keeping well and best wishes for the New Year
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Cheers Hugo. I'll try that.
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Bit of a problem here Hugo. I click on the envelope under her name and it comes up with my e mail address!!
I'll give it another go tomorroww.
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Ed, I had a similar problem and I remember speaking to Ian about it. If my memory is correct you are the only one apart from the recipient that can see that e-mail address.
I hope that Ian or Dave can read this posting and explain things better for you.
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This is the son of Robert Owen and Catherine Owen which does not fit John Owen Coxswain.
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Thank everybody for trying to help us. I've been a bit cheeky and sent Norman a message to see if that works asking if he will pass on my email address to Ed, I hope he doesn't mind.
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Let's hope that works Emma. $walesflag$
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I got your phone message last night Norman but assume that you've been able to help Emma out in the meantime.
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Thank you all for your help. I've now received an email from Eddie and sent a reply so hopefully we are ok. I have had a few problems with the internet over the holidays but it seems much better today which could have been the problem. I'm sorry I've taken over the subject a bit but I am now going to look and see if mum has one of the booklets mentioned and look at the John Owens in my family tree to see if I can help! $thanx$
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Received an e mail from Emma, looking forward to long chats with a part of my family I knew nothing about.
Ta for your help everyone. $walesflag$ $thanx$
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Special Ta to Norm 08 and Gwynant. $thanx$ ;D
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This is the son of Robert Owen and Catherine Owen which does not fit John Owen Coxswain.
Hi John52, Many thanks for putting up the marriage and death certs. I whole heartedly agree that the John of your certs is not the RNLI John. John of the RNLI fame (AS FAR AS MY RESEARCH SHOWS) however, is a son of Robert and Catherine (married name unknown) OWEN. This Robert was born 1835 and died in 1890 and was the son of John OWEN and Alice WILLIAMS (Robert being a plasterer). Robert's son John was a painter (decorator) born 1865 and died 1950. He was married to ELIZABETH roberts in 1891. I hope this helps clarify but as I say it's only as much as my research has shown to date
$thanx$
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Please does anybody know if Ted,s wife Lilian was a Duckinfield or a Barlow?
Hi Emma,
Just about to email you but it would seem she was a Barlow (her mother would have been my half 2g aunt) - half because her mother was John OWEN's second wife (Laura ROBERTS)
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Please does anybody know if Ted,s wife Lilian was a Duckinfield or a Barlow?
Hi Emma,
Just about to email you but it would seem she was a Barlow (her mother would have been my half 2g aunt) - half because her mother was John OWEN's second wife (Laura ROBERTS)
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Hello folks and thanks to Norman and Chris Rogers for letting me know about this thread. Lots of questions to answer here. The man in the stern of the Lifeboat is my Grandfather John(Jack) Jones. There is a mention of a son, John Isaac, My brother, Ted's eldest son was John Frederick. Isaac was my Great Grandfather.
My Mother Lillian was a Barlow, Sister to Walter and John.
Emma, you and your mother are obviously relations of mine I would really love to hear from you as there does not appear to be many of us left. My e mail address is as Hugo has stated, please get in touch as soon as you can.
Hi Ed. I am related to your mother Lilian BARLOW. I have been chatting with Emma Silk re these families and am most intrigued. I am trying to find some mysterious relatives on my OWEN line (your maternal grandmother's line. Your great grandfather John OWEN was my 2 G Grandfather). I would welcome the opportunity to chat if you are happy. Hope to hear
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Jom, have sent a message.
Hugo, thanks for all your help with this. Have sorted out how to contact people. $walesflag$ $good$
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$good$
have replied by email Ed $thanx$
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Jom, I just thought that you would like to know that there was an interesting article in the North Wales Pioneer newspaper on the 4th April 2019.
It was headed in bold letters on pg 28 " Dramatic vessel rescue is recalled a century on " and was about how the crew of the Theodore Price lifeboat rescued the crew off " The Ada Mars" and John Owen Coxswain being awarded the bronze medal for gallantry.
There were four small photos shown in the item, one of the entire crew, one of the bronze medal, one of John Owen and two other men and the other of the lifeboat on the beach
Unfortunately my printer is kaput so I can't produce it on here, not yet anyway
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Well my friend Rhuddlan has come to my rescue and e-mailed the article to me.
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Wow ... Thank you Hugo and Rhuddlan. That's wonderful to have. I'll add that to my family archive. Really appreciate it.
Hope you're all enjoying some warmer weather. We had to have a fire going this week but lovely autumnal days. Keep well and thanks again $3towns$