Three Towns Forum
The Local => Ask a Local => Topic started by: Llechwedd on November 27, 2012, 12:26:09 pm
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Does anyone know the name of the stream that runs at through Llanrhos just beyond the new community centre? It must be culverted under the road from the Glanwydden side and then reappears in a copse on the west side. Does it come off Cwm mountain and where does it go, the Conwy? There is a stream running in to the moat at Gloddaeth hall/St David's Colege but that may come from Rhos on Sea. Eels go there each year to mate, all the way from the Sargosso Sea I'm told..... and they are protected. Ugh
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The stream (really just a drainage ditch to start with) originally drains off Cwm Mountain and is then augumented by the ancient well, Ffynnon Fair. After passing under the Llanrhos Road, it passes again under the connecting road to the Link Road Roundabout and is then channeled along the side of the Link Road. It then passes underneath it to become part of the stream that flows under the Meadows Estate, then under the Llandudno Junction Railway Station and into the Conwy Estuary.
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I think it is called the Afon Wydden between Llanrhos and the Junction. Confusingly the river that starts opposite Gloddaeth Hall and flows through Glanwydden is also known by this name.
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When eels mate do they have to be protected? Are they afraid of aids?
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I think it is called the Afon Wydden between Llanrhos and the Junction. Confusingly the river that starts opposite Gloddaeth Hall and flows through Glanwydden is also known by this name.
It's a continuation of the Afon Wydden that flows from Glanwydden but the one that Llechwedd is talking about must join the Afon Wydden somewhere before Bodysgallen Hall.
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Thanks for this but I'm totally confused now. I tried to buy a large scale OS map at Waterstones today but no lluck. I think I mean the Llanrhos end of Bryn Lupus road so it seems a heck of a long way Dave but then I don't know which roundabout you mean, sorry.
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LLechwedd, I'm confused too. The roundabout I'm thinking of is the one on the A470 that leads to Glanwydden. Does your stream flow in a westerly direction behind the new Community Centre?
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Er yes I think so. A friend who lives on the Llandudno side says it comes from Cwm mountain . After posting my confused email I had the brilliant idea of Googling the Afon Wydden and was surprised to see that Welsh Water has many ways of stopping it flooding the Junction. I'm not convinced it's the one I mean though as it must wiggle a heck of a lot! The one at Gloddaeth Hall may come out at Rhos on Sea or may join the Afon Ganol? help there's too much water :'(
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Llechwedd, have a look on Llandudno Google map and go to Llanrhos. From the air look across the road opposite the old Post Office and you will see a stream bed which goes into a pond just North West of the A470 roundabout (Gloddaeth Lane) this in turn appears to emerge across the A470 lower down.
Is this the stream you are talking about?
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Thanks Hugo for going to so much trouble. I did try looking at the Google map before posting my query but I'll have another go tomorrow.
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Just looked at Google maps again. The stream runs at the back of the houses on Bryn Gosol Drive which is why I'm asking as a friends garden is being eroded and Mostyn estates says it's nothing to do with them. If it is Afon Wydden then Welsh Water owns it although they say not. It's not dangerous at present but the garden is slowly getting shorter!. If you look at Cae Rhos on the map and then scroll down there's a copse and the stream appears to meander through there.
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Llechwedd, I popped down to have a look at the stream that you are talking about and it must come from Cwm Mountain somewhere. It actually flows eastward and is exactly as Dave has said. The stream goes into Ffynnon Fair and continues along the edge of the copse before it was cultivated under the road next to a house named Glan Aber. It then goes into the field and into a wooded area that has a pond from there it will go under the A470 at some point.
I went on to Google to have a look at the stream from the air and it is clearly visible once you get your bearings.
I don't know the name of the stream but there are a number of people on the forum from the Deganwy historical Society who know a lot about the area and may be able to help.
Now your question has raised another for me as I undertood that the Afon Wydden flowed from Glanwydden to Bodysgallen Hall and continued past Marl and came out by the Rail Station in Llandudno Junction. However I stopped in Glanwydden today and had a look at the Afon Wydden and that was flowing eastward :o in the direction of Afon Ganol so I'm more confused than ever.
The only thing that I am certain of is that your friend will have no help whatsoever from Mostyn Estates, my thoughts on them are unprintable! :rage:
Water courses though can be the responsibility of Dwr Cymru so your friend needs legal advise.
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I think I mentioned the anomaly of the Afon Wydden flowing in two directions in an earlier comment. Welsh Water/Dwr Cymru is a sewerage undertaker and is not responsible for watercourses. Watercourses which are designated "main rivers" are supervised by the Environment Agency as successor to the old River Authorities. The watercourses at Llanrhos are not "main rivers" as far as I know. The local authority has permissive powers but are more likely to serve a notice on the riparian landowner to deal with any problems. It is the responsibility of the landowner(s) through whose land the watercourse passes to deal with its maintenance.
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Thanks Cambrian for that information. That stream was flowing quite fast yesterday through the culvert under the old Conway Road and would cause more erosion to Llechwedd's friends garden. I'm sure that he'll find that info handy.
Although I had read your first post, I was amazed yesterday when I noticed the Afon Wydden in Glanwydden flowing eastwards towards the Afon Ganol as I had always believed that it had flowed the other way.
When they had the floods in the meadows in Llandudno Junction they said at the time that it was the Afon Wydden but it must have been the one from Cwm Mountain and not the other one from Glanwydden.
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Thanks all for your help particularly Hugo and the photos. Mostyn said they own the banks but not the stream and even though the bank is being eroded it's not their fault or words to that effect. There is no danger to my friends house although last week in the teeth of the gale etc. she was out clearing debris like large branches from it as it was a torrent and would have come up the garden. I'll ask her to try the Environment Agency thanks for that Cambrian. If you Google you will see the trouble Dwr Cymru has gone to to stop flooding in the Junction and that refers to the Wydden which I think is further south west than this one. Maybe it feeds in to the Afon Ganol? I've no idea where that comes from come to think of it just see it near Llandrillo tech. and I know it was the old dividing line between Denbighshire and Gwynedd/Caernarfonshire. Then there's the eels how do they get to St David's? Aaaagh I've opened a can of worms or eels :'(
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Sorry could not find the Google reference Llechwedd. If the work was before 1989 that would be correct as it was then the Welsh Water Authority and had the EA responsibilities before privatisation. Some surface water sewers may discharge into the Afon Wydden in the Junction and it may be something to with these if the work is more recent. The Afon Wydden (West) outfalls into the River Conwy somewhere beyond Tesco have flowed in a culvert under the railway station - I think that building in Conway Road that partly serves as a bus shelter is something to do with it. The Afon Wydden (East) joins the Afon Ganol somewhere round the entrance to Dinerth Hall (Glanwydden side).
Somewhere in front of St David's College, probably by the track leading to Cilemeityn, there is a watershed and the watercourse will gradually flow either way depending on run-off and weather conditions at the time.
Personally I do not understand Mostyn's stance on this. Perhaps your friend should talk to one of the drainage engineers in Conwy Council's Environment Section.
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Mostyn said they own the banks but not the stream and even though the bank is being eroded it's not their fault or words to that effect.
I bet if there was a sufficient flow of water and Llechwedd's friend was able to use it to create hydro electricity then the owner of the water would come forward with their grubby mitts for a hand out. :)
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Just an add on that came to mind about the eels. They can travel over land so if the pond doesn't have a stream running from it then they will make their way across the land to get to the pond.
There were a number of fishing ponds in Rhyl that contained Eels but had no watercourses running from them. I think that the Eels have the ability to breathe oxygen above and below the water.
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Ugh and yuck Hugo I will nver walk across a field again!
Cambrian I just Googled Afon Wydden and there's quite a few refs.
"New system keeps flood defences under control
21-Sep-2011
Work has started on a £190,000 Environment Agency Wales project to upgrade the automated control system which protects Llandudno Junction from flooding.
The work, which is expected to take six weeks to complete, will replace the existing system which controls the flow of water from the Afon Wydden into the Conwy estuary and protects 229 properties from flooding.
Controlling flooding on the Wydden relies on a complicated system of four reservoirs which act as flood storage areas.
Water levels along the river are monitored and maintained at a safe level by sluice gates which are controlled by the Wydden Flood Storage Area computer.
Wear and tear of the existing control system, which has been in operation since 1997, means its replacement is essential in order to ensure the continued protection of the area against flooding.
There are also incompatibility issues with the existing system and Wales’ new flood monitoring system.
The kiosks which house the system are also being replaced.
EAW officers will maintain operational control of the flood storage reservoirs while the work is being carried out, in order to maintain flood protection standards.
North Wales Area Manager David Edwell said: “The Wydden Flood Storage Area is essential to the flood defence of Llandudno Junction and it is vital that the system meets the highest standards.
“This work means this will be the case and we can continue to protect people at risk from flooding from rivers and the sea.”
To find out if you are at risk and get early warnings, visit our website
www.environment-agency.gov.uk/floodwales (http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/floodwales)
or call Floodline on 0845 988 11 88."
Of course it's Environment Agency, silly me! But I still don't think it's 'our' stream. In fact I think I've now got 4! This one, the Wydden , Ganol and the eels!
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Just ben looking at a rather poor OS map on the net. The Afon Ganol goes from Rhos and comes out in the nature reserve. The Llanrhos one sems to join up with the eels and disappears by the bottom of Marl lane. So maybe Davv'es theiory was corect. But I don't think it's the Wydden which seems to be further south east???
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The Afon Ganol is another of those odd rivers which flows both ways depending on state of the tides. Like the two Wyddens it is also a scheduled "main river" but is also in two Internal Drainage Districts. These were originally sort of Drainage Boards run by landowners to drain agricultural land but their powers in this area are now with the EA who are supposed to maintain all the drainage ditches within the IDD.
There is another watercourse which joins the Afon Ganol (West) near Pensarn. This runs alongside the old Hotpoint site and is then culverted for some distance until it comes out the other side of the railway. This one starts somewhere round Pabo Hall but I'm not sure if it has a name.