Three Towns Forum
Members' Lounge => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: born2run on September 06, 2011, 10:55:24 pm
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Thanks to my good friend and the very best Darts player Z**! Fester for suggesting I put this in here as we were discussing it before and I must say I do find it interesting
The attached picture, was taken outside of the Carlton tonight. As I walked past I had to double take and thing for a second if I was actually still in Wales :o (I travel a lot)
But no I am in Wales $walesflag$ and there it is a poster advertising tonights England v Wales football game
With an English flag background!!! :'(
Not an English and Welsh flag mind, that I would find perfectly acceptable. But JUST the English flag.
It got me wondering if the posters they have outside Pubs in England have just the Welsh flag :laugh:
I very much doubt it. In fact I doubt there are very few places in the world where you would find a poster advertising the match with the oppositions flag on it!
Now I know a lot of English people live here and that's fair enough, I respect them and their team. But this is still WALES
There are a lot of Pakistani people living in England but I doubt they'd think it acceptable to walk past a pub advertising the Pakistan v England cricket match draped by a huge Pakistan flag.
I'm genuinely astonished and wondering what the hell the Carlton were thinking
So
Am I overreacting or do I have a point?
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you are not overreacting and you do have a valid point. i remember the 'one stop' in west shore one world/euro cup finals draped in english flags and i know quite a few english/welsh speaking welsh people now boycott that shop.
$walesflag$
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I am English by birth, but I choose to live in Wales, (and I love Wales)
So, when I watched the match tonight, in between darts games against Born to Run, I was urging Wales to score.
I wanted Wales to win.... that felt right to me.
Now, that poster has a common denominator, it was advertising TWO England games I suppose, but it is still wrong... very wrong, to only display the English flag in the middle of Wales. What are they thinking??
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It's another example of a Crappy PubCo's marketing dept, who are based in Luton and are probably blissfully unaware that they may own Pubs outside of Eng-ur-lund.
The Carlton is owned by Stonegate Pubs, who also own Yates and The Old Glan in Bangor locally. I bet the England poster wasn't displayed in Bangor! 8)
http://www.stonegatepubs.com/ (http://www.stonegatepubs.com/)
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It's another example of a Crappy PubCo's marketing dept, who are based in Luton and are probably blissfully unaware that they may own Pubs outside of Eng-ur-lund.
The Carlton is owned by Stonegate Pubs, who also own Yates and The Old Glan in Bangor locally. I bet the England poster wasn't displayed in Bangor! 8)
http://www.stonegatepubs.com/ (http://www.stonegatepubs.com/)
Damm I was in Bangor today on a Union course. I would have checked if I'd have known, however I'm sure I wouldn't have been surprised not to see one ;D
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Back in the World cup days 2006 the Queens in Llanrwst of all places went to town with the English flags and bunting. It never gets ANY customers (dont how or why it keeps open) so the "Landlord" (if you can call him that) honestly didnt know he was doing anything wrong. But it did'nt take long before people who lived around there told him if he didnt want to wake up to a burning ex pub he had better go easy on the celebrations. Knowing him vaguely I can believe that it never crossed his mind that he wasent in England!!!! People like him just think that Wales is just some sort of County, like say Essex and Kent, and they are not at all sure were the border is in any case.
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I raised this issue with the manageress of The Carlton when I passed this morning.
She was hauling the sign inside.
Being English myself made it a bit ironic, but I just thought it was wrong.
It is fair to say by her response that she didn't care a jot, didn't really understand the point I was making, and just regaled me with how delighted she was that they now have Sky football in the pub.
Then she admitted that she didn't even see the game and didn't know the result!
Born to Run, you need to keep off those Union courses, they can warp your mind!
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fester are you sure there is not a bit of HIRAETH coming through,i think if you did a search on your own family tree you would find a distant welsh relative.
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Actually you are correct Dwyforite,
My Grandma's maiden name was Davey, and she was born in Wales. $walesflag$
On my other Grandma's side, she was a Murphy, so I reckon I could CHOOSE whether I play football for Wales or Ireland.
If only I wasn't so crap at football!
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im the same a bowen on the welsh side and a sullivan on the irish side,so when wales play ireland at the rugby,a tricolor in one hand and a welsh dragon in the other
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I raised this issue with the manageress of The Carlton when I passed this morning.
She was hauling the sign inside.
Being English myself made it a bit ironic, but I just thought it was wrong.
It is fair to say by her response that she didn't care a jot, didn't really understand the point I was making, and just regaled me with how delighted she was that they now have Sky football in the pub.
Then she admitted that she didn't even see the game and didn't know the result!
Born to Run, you need to keep off those Union courses, they can warp your mind!
Thanks Fester $good$
I think I know the manager you mean, doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
I've always thought that place would be flippant at best with regards to customer's views.
For example they had a pool table in the winter (for when they were funded as they put it by "locals")
But made it quite clear that come summer time they would be getting rid of it to put out more food tables for the tourists and F the locals!!
Also I don't think showing SKY is especially going to do them an awful lot of good.
About ten years ago and before (as Wetherspoons was opening - the clue is here) There was massive crowds watching football in Pubs - Beer wasn't that expensive and SKY was. But slowly all the main pubs that would be packed for the games stopped showing football because they couldn't afford it (Cross Keys and Fountains being the main two) then Club 147 opened. This killed it completely - People either went to watch it there (with all the atmosphere of a library) or got Sky Sports at home. I'd be surprised to see this culture ever change in town
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:D
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Another very interesting statistic from the 2011 Census.
Of all the people who ticked the box saying they were WELSH, only 10% of them also considered themselves BRITISH.
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Of all the people who ticked the box saying they were WELSH, only 10% of them also considered themselves BRITISH.
We're there any figures saying how many people who considered themselves as being Welsh, could NOT speak, write or understand English?
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Of all the people who ticked the box saying they were WELSH, only 10% of them also considered themselves BRITISH.
We're there any figures saying how many people who considered themselves as being Welsh, could NOT speak, write or understand English?
I don't know if there are any figures for that but the Census does show that in the UK in 4% of households no one spoke English as their first language. In addition, London had 37% of its residents born outside of the UK and in Chelsea and Kensington more than four in ten people do not hold UK passports. Immigration has certainly had its effect on the various countries of the UK.
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Now that it's done and dusted I'll vent my spleen.
What a complete waste of time and MONEY that was.
Moreover, what a fantastic way to deepen divisions between nations, regions and even families and neighbours for generations to come.
I really wish that the vote had have been YES, because then we could really see what happens to a state that splinters off to see if it can be economically viable in this world today.
I have come across many Scottish visitors in the last year, and spoken about this issue.
Those who were voting NO, were doing so for a variety of relatively pleasant reasons, or a fear of the unknown.
Those who were voting YES, were basically doing so because they hated the English. They were telling me that to my face because they thought I was Welsh!
I always knew that a portion of the Scots cheered when England lost at football, I thought it was a small minority and it was harmless banter.... but these last few weeks have really opened my eyes.
So, Andy Murray and all your Nationalistic cronies, hear this.... I will NOT be venturing North of the border again in my life, as it now transpires that a very large proportion of you HATE ME. Then I shall spend my money elsewhere.
I will be closing my bank accounts with ANY of the Banks which are part of the RBS, that includes my business account with the Halifax. First thing Monday, its SHUT,
I will also be swapping my energy supplier away from Scottish Power.
I would rather have a few days at New Year in Iraq, because the weather will be better, and the folk over there are too busy hating each other, rather than hating me.
Never had anything against the Scots, why would I? But now..... it's time for a re-think.
Alex Salmond, your legacy will be one of division, acrimony and eventual FAILURE.
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I was pondering whether to move this post to 'games and jokes', since I couldn't follow much - if any - of its logic. Then I re-read it and realised that if you substituted 'Welsh' for 'Scottish', or really any one of a number of the UK's national groups, then it makes perfect sense as actually a thinly veiled metaphor for your entire existence, Fester. WWW WWW WWW
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The whole subject puzzles me! Now some English people want independence from, er, England? How far does this go, remember there will be another layer of bureaucracy, which we will have to pay for!
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I suspect we're seeing the start of a concerted push for federalism. Can't wait until North Wales declares for secession and independence :-))
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Independence for Rhos on Sea! D) :laugh:
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Ref. Fester 19 Sep.
"I have come across many Scottish visitors in the last year, and spoken about this issue"
"Those who were voting YES, were basically doing so because they hated the English."
I was wondering how many of the three and a half million Scottish voters, you had met.?
"So, Andy Murray and all your Nationalistic cronies."
I would not call these quotes overly nationalistic
"Huge day for Scotland today! no campaign negativity, last few days totally swayed my view on it. excited to see the outcome. lets do this!"
Ref. Mailonline.
Murray has remained ambiguous about his stance on the referendum until today.
He previously said he thought Scots should avoid making a decision "based on emotion" and should instead focus on "what is best economically for Scotland".
But speaking Last month, he said he would play tennis for Scotland if it became independent, but said he thought it was unlikely to happen.
He told MailOnline: "If Scotland became independent, then I imagine I would be playing for Scotland. I haven't thought much about that yet because I don't think it's looking too likely that it's going to happen".
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Anyone know country Andy Murray lives in and pays his taxes ?
A lot of other "celebraties" jumping on the Yes bandwagon not either living in Scotland or paying UK taxes.
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Anyone know country Andy Murray lives in and pays his taxes ?
A lot of other "celebraties" jumping on the Yes bandwagon not either living in Scotland or paying UK taxes.
"Although born in Scotland, Murray lives in Surrey with girlfriend Kim Sears."
“I started competing for Great Britain when I was 11. I’m 27 now and I’ve been competing for Great Britain for 16 years,” he told Sunday Times."
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Steve, to answer your question, how many Scots have I spoken to on the subject in the last year, the answer is a lot, and a damn sight more than anyone on here (apart from Mull
As usual, I was posting from EXPERIENCE, and posting MY opinions, although that is never popular on here, and usually denigrated, moderated, amended or otherwise picked apart. No matter, I know what I know.
The point I was trying to convey, that no one has commented on, is that there will be a negative legacy for Scotland.
They have shown that a very large percentage of the population wish to break away from the UK and isolate themselves.
Tourism will suffer, business will suffer, and the divisions within families and communities will not easily be forgotten.
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I think it's more to do with how you post rather than what you post, F. However, when you say
I really wish that the vote had have been YES, because then we could really see what happens to a state that splinters off to see if it can be economically viable in this world today.
I'd given that some thought, as I imagine most Scots have. I'm pretty sure it would have made almost no difference in the short term. The Scots already have their own system of jurisprudence and their own education system, so really we're looking at Health and Financial stability as the two questions, and I'm pretty certain nothing would have been done to change either of those issues in the short term. In the longer term, however, I suspect that there would have been moves to do two things: first and foremost, make Edinburgh a significant financial centre by creating similar incentives to those the UK coalition has already put in place for London. Salmond would have realised that the UK's quicker than expected recovery from the crash precipitated by the banking industry is due in no small part to that same banking industry (which is rapidly returning to all its old ways, I fear) and Cameron has already said he won't impose the same conditions on the trading floor as the Europeans are demanding. Thus, Edinburgh and London would find themselves in competition and banks have no loyalty, as they've proved many times in the past, so if the incentives and guarantees were right they'd relocate like a shot.
Secondly, he'd realise that to sustain the health service in Scotland he'd have stark choices: raise taxes or attract more business. He wouldn't want to raise taxes, so he'd look to similar tiny countries, who are independent and enjoy high standards of living. Switzerland, Luxembourg, Denmark and Norway all offer models which he could easily adapt. Switzerland especially is probably the ultimate democracy and it helps that the topography is similar :-))
Then he'd have to look to exports. The Scottish Whisky exports are already significant and a good earner for the country but tourism has the potential to be a much greater earner than at present. Scotland also has rather a lot of some natural resources: fresh water is one, and this has been the driest September in 50 years for us, so I imagine it won't be that long before we start hearing of hosepipe bans in England, anyway.
Overall, I really think Scotland would have done well out of independence, but we shouldn't lose sight of what triggered all this.
When devolution was first proposed, those at Westminster determined that both Scotland and Wales should have a voting system for their assemblies that would effectively prevent any single party gaining an overall majority. Thus, in an unbelievably self-serving act of utter dishonesty they forced the Scottish and Welsh Parliaments to use proportional representation - the same system which all party leaders other than the LIb Dems have strenuously denied the UK electorate over the years. Despite that, the SNP gained the overall majority that the Westminster gang believed would be impossible. I believe we could see a similar situation occur in Wales, so it's worth bearing in mind that it's not the English per se whom the Scots dislike, but rather the Westminster Parliament.
And I've lost count of the number of times the BBC starts its national weather forecast with words like "It's going to be a beautiful day..." when what they mean is that it's not going to rain in London.
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"As usual, I was posting from EXPERIENCE, and posting MY opinions."
Hi Fester, I had no problems, with your opinions, other than you felt "Hated" by the Scots, and I tried to point that out with my reply, I am sure there are extremists but, overall I think Ian got it right.. "that it's not the English per se whom the Scots dislike, but rather the Westminster Parliament." and possible the English football team.
"The point I was trying to convey, that no one has commented on, is that there will be a negative legacy for Scotland. They have shown that a very large percentage of the population wish to break away from the UK and isolate themselves. Tourism will suffer, business will suffer, and the divisions within families and communities will not easily be forgotten."
I can only hope that you are wrong, and the OPINIONS of the Scottish voters will not be held against them, in the long term, and it is my fervent hope that you will cancel your trip to Iraq, and cross the border of probably one of the most hospitable countries in the world.
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I think and hope that the Referendum does not have a negative effect on Scotland or it's people. It doesn't bother me one bit although I am glad to see that they have voted to stay in the UK and I'm also hoping to go there next year for a short break.
The point is that the vote for Scottish Independence was for the Scottish people to decide and not Westminster but now that it has been decided perhaps the Government can do something positive for the UK as there are many other important issues to resolve.
There is a General Election coming up next year and every one has the freedom to vote on it and whichever way they decide to vote then I hope others won't hold it against them as it is their right to vote whichever way they want.
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Hi Fester, Just had a look on my only other forum the Glasgow Boards, there are 944 pages of discussion on independence , before and after, and although I could not read them all,I am pleased to say I did not find one "hate" remark towards the English people, mostly political. $good$
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Hi Fester, Just had a look on my only other forum the Glasgow Boards, there are 944 pages of discussion on independence , before and after, and although I could not read them all,I am pleased to say I did not find one "hate" remark towards the English people, mostly political. $good$
Probably got moderated off Steve.
Anyhow, I must have imagined all those conversations I had, and vitriol I saw displayed against the English in general.
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Hi Fester, Just had a look on my only other forum the Glasgow Boards, there are 944 pages of discussion on independence , before and after, and although I could not read them all,I am pleased to say I did not find one "hate" remark towards the English people, mostly political. $good$
Probably got moderated off Steve.
Anyhow, I must have imagined all those conversations I had, and vitriol I saw displayed against the English in general.
What a load of rubbish $good$ So do all of the euro sceptics in the UK hate all the European people and are largely xenophobic. Or do they just not want to be governed by those countries? Why should people voting to be self governed make them in any way anti-English?What about the English people who wanted Scotland to become independent, do they hate the English as well? Do they hate themselves? Do they wake up every morning and spit a bile of hatred at themselves in the mirror?
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As usual, I was posting from EXPERIENCE, and posting MY opinions, although that is never popular on here, and usually denigrated, moderated, amended or otherwise picked apart. No matter, I know what I know.
You're not the only one! ZXZ
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One way forward now would be to create four equal Parliaments - one for each 'state' of the UK - and an overall, supreme 'senate' which would have final say on matters of defence, healthcare and education.
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Although - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2764875/Property-developer-bought-house-Wales-says-anti-English-racists-smashed-windows-46-times-told-f-belong.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2764875/Property-developer-bought-house-Wales-says-anti-English-racists-smashed-windows-46-times-told-f-belong.html)
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Although - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2764875/Property-developer-bought-house-Wales-says-anti-English-racists-smashed-windows-46-times-told-f-belong.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2764875/Property-developer-bought-house-Wales-says-anti-English-racists-smashed-windows-46-times-told-f-belong.html)
CELTIC V ANGLO SAXON.... :D
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One way forward now would be to create four equal Parliaments - one for each 'state' of the UK - and an overall, supreme 'senate' which would have final say on matters of defence, healthcare and education.
Who would rule the supreme 'senate', the Sith?
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'Record low' back Welsh independence - BBC/ICM poll
Support for Welsh independence has fallen to its lowest recorded level in the wake of the Scottish referendum, according to a poll for BBC Wales.
The survey, carried out days after Scotland voted "No", found 3% wanted to Wales to be independent.
But there was support for the idea of more powers being devolved to the Welsh Assembly, with 49% in favour.
ICM Research interviewed a random sample of 1,006 people in Wales over the telephone.
The survey found 12% wanted to see the assembly abolished.
The poll also found growing support for UKIP in Wales ahead of next year's general election.
Nigel Farage's party is on 14%, up seven points from the last BBC Wales poll in March.
Labour are down four points to 38%, with the Conservatives on 23% (down one), Plaid Cymru on 13% (down one) and the Liberal Democrats on 7% (down two).
Prof Roger Scully of the Wales Governance Centre at Cardiff University said: "Support for independence is the lowest I've seen anywhere.
Graph
"There has been a clear move towards supporting more powers, and some of the people who may have said 'independence' have gone in that direction.
"We're getting close to a majority saying they want things to go further. There are also pretty low levels of support for abolition of the assembly - the extreme positions are losing out."
An analysis of the voting intention figures by Prof Scully suggests that, on a uniform swing, Labour would gain two seats in the capital - Cardiff North and Cardiff Central - at next May's general election.
Plaid Cymru's leader Leanne Wood says she is not surprised by the slump in support for an independent Wales
The Conservatives would lose Cardiff North but gain Brecon and Radnor; Plaid Cymru would retain their three seats but the Liberal Democrats would be reduced to a solitary Welsh seat at Westminster - Ceredigion.
UKIP's level of support is too low to win their own seat, but high enough to have an impact on some marginal constituencies.
"UKIP's support is clearly going up," said Prof Scully. "They are starting to reach the sort of level where they could make a serious difference in marginal seats."
He said most evidence suggests they are taking more support from the Conservatives than anywhere else, which could be of importance in Tory-held marginal seats like the Vale of Glamorgan and Aberconwy.
ICM Research interviewed a random sample of 1,006 Welsh adults aged 18 or over by telephone on 19-22nd September 2014. Interviews were conducted across Wales and the results have been weighted to the profile of all adults. ICM is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-29331475 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-29331475)
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North Wales leads the way in Queen's Birthday Honours
North Wales was well represented in the awards published today.
Mr Hulse, of Conwy, who attended in his first rescue in 1972 aged 16, was delighted with his MBE.
He is now helping as the RAF hand over to Bristows’ helicopters.
Chris Lloyd, of Ogwen Valley Mountain Rescue, said: “I am thrilled that John has this award. It is very well deserved.”
The Queen’s Police Medal went to retired Detective Inspector Steve Williams, an ex-chairman of the Police Federation of England and Wales.
The 55-year-old, from Deganwy, who started off as a Rhyl bobby, was recognised for leading a major review to modernise the Federation and distinguished service in a 30-year career.
He said: “I was thrilled to receive the Queen’s Police Medal.”
Queen’s Police Medals went to Karl Rathbone, a North Wales Police inspector, and Simon Prince, Chief Constable Dyfed Powys Police.
Mr Prince said, “It is a privilege to be nominated for the award. I feel very proud and honoured to work alongside very talented colleagues in both Dyfed Powys and Gwent serving and safeguarding the public.”
Other Recipients From Across The Region
An MBE went to Tegwen Evana Morris, Merched Y Wawr national director, for services to language and culture in Wales and for voluntary and charitable service in Aberystwyth and overseas.
Elsewhere, Dr Robin Lewis was made a Commander of the Royal Victorian Order for his work representing HM The Queen as the Lord-Lieutenant of Dyfed.
Dr Lewis, 74, who already had an OBE, said: “I felt very pleased. The Royal Victorian Order is in the personal gift of Her Majesty.”
One of his jobs is to write to congratulate honours recipients but he quipped that he wouldn’t do it to himself and “waste a stamp”.
The Queen also recognised the work of a Denbigh man with the OBE.
Aldham Edward Robarts, who has a library named after him at Liverpool John Moores University, was honoured ”for services to Higher Education and to the City of Liverpool.”
British Empire Medals (BEMs) were awarded to Poppy Appeal organiser Ted Evans, of Rhewl, for voluntary work for the Royal British Legion, Peter Carter Jones for helping to create the Welsh National WWI Memorial in Flanders, Belgium, and Brian Gregson, Old Colwyn Scout Group Committee chairman for voluntary and charitable efforts in Conwy.
Similarly, BEMs were awarded to Sue Wain for her charity work on Anglesey, Ann Walkden-Williams in Prestatyn, Elizabeth Hewitt in Hawarden and Mancot, and Lorraine Lloyd in Welshpool.
Secretary of State for Wales Stephen Crabb said: “I am delighted to see so many people from all walks of Welsh life honoured today. We can all take pride in their many and varied accomplishments.
“They are all outstanding individuals – people who are making a change in their communities, and inspiring others. Congratulations to you all.”
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/north-wales-leads-way-queens-9445903 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/north-wales-leads-way-queens-9445903)
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http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/18/queen-nazi-salute-video-royal-home-movie- (http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/18/queen-nazi-salute-video-royal-home-movie-)