Three Towns Forum
Members' Lounge => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Paddy on September 05, 2010, 10:17:07 pm
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Given that the Catholic Church is the wealthiest organisation in the World and the UK is currently in recession. Is it right that we should be footing a £10m bill for a visit from the Pope?
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I don't think its a valid use of taxpayers money at this time.
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Surely, if he's visiting as head of the RC church, it's the same as any local bishop visiting this parish and the church should bear the cost. Of course, it's been a while since he's been here - long time no see, I suppose you could say....
WWW
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Just wondering: I put a poll at the head of this topic, but I suspect it didn't show up in the unread messages section .
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I do not wish to cause any offence and believe that people have the sacracant right to worship as they believe and whilst it may not be 'politicaly correct' to critise this event, in these times of cut-backs in education, health care, jobs and investment, and believe me, the worst is yet to come, it is wholly wrong for the tax payers of the UK to fund £10,000,000 costs for the visit of the head of the richest institution in the world, The Catholic Church.
There is no argument whatsoever that can justify that the costs be paid out of public funds.
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Welcome to the Forum, Richard! :)
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Welcome, indeed. And a cogent argument.
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Interesting article:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1310358/Those-oppose-Pope-Benedict-XVIs-visit-real-bigots.html?ito=feeds-newsxml (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1310358/Those-oppose-Pope-Benedict-XVIs-visit-real-bigots.html?ito=feeds-newsxml)
I disagree with many of his teachings. But it's those who oppose Pope Benedict XVI's visit who are the real bigots
:votive: :votive: :votive: :votive: :votive: :votive: :votive: :votive: :votive: :votive: :votive: :votive: :votive: :votive: :votive: :votive: :votive: :votive: :votive: :votive:
However, if the Pope is visiting England :england: and Scotland :Scot: then I wouldn't expect the Welsh or the Northern Irish to fork-out anything. But then.........the Queen and the UK Government has invited the Pontiff over.
Another interesting article:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/britons-say-taxpayer-should-not-fund-popes-visit-14933547.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/britons-say-taxpayer-should-not-fund-popes-visit-14933547.html)
The poll findings come after it was announced earlier this year that the Government costs of the trip - previously estimated at £8 million - could rise to between £10 million and £12 million.
In addition, the Catholic Church is expected to make a contribution of between £9 million and £10 million towards the costs.
Does this mean that the total bill could be around £20 million? :o
Nice to see everyone going "Dutch" though - and he isn't even visiting Holland. :laugh:
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Good point, how on earth can it cost £20m?! :o
I see no reason why taxpayers money has to be spent on this, the Catholic Church has plenty of money, even after paying out hundreds of millions to the victims of organised child abuse. The Pope is welcome to visit the UK, just don't ask me to pay for it.
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Here here Dave. it's been suggested that the majority of the cost is for security and protection. There's faith for you!
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Given the extra police overtime and special branch involvement, if they add it all up as extra costs it could easily reach the figures they're suggesting.
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Whether or not we agree with the Pope (nope!), or regardless of how rich the RC church is, (yup!) is not really the point. He's a visiting head of state and we have invited him here.
The fact that there ARE such extensive security costs is partly a reflection of the views of the RC church and the Pope but probably more so a reflection on our society, and the costly intolerence of a small minority. The rest of us will just ignore the visit. Job done.
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He's a visiting head of state
But of a very odd state and an extremely tiny one.
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Yes, i doubt they'd spend £20m on security if the President of Lichtenstein visited... :P
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Yes, i doubt they'd spend £20m on security if the President of Lichtenstein visited... :P
The Pope doesn't really need security..... :paranoid:
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That reminds me of that video with the two kids...
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Unfortunately, by ignoring issues that are socially unacceptable, be it someone dropping litter or the cost to the taxpayer of the Pope’s visit, the issue does not go away, it becomes regarded by some as acceptable. Recent polls suggest that some 80% of people find the costs involved in this visit unacceptable; this is very understandable as we see the items like proposed new schools being cancelled, the GMP and North Wales Police considering 25% cuts in personnel. The worst is yet to come, and whilst we already have a lack of funding for social care for OAP’s, children and the vulnerable, someone has to stand up and shout that the cost of the Pope’s visit to the UK is unacceptable. I don’t hear many MP’s doing this, presumably for fear of being called racist or a bigot. It’s got nothing to do with racism or bigotry, this country is highly tolerant of races, religions and creeds, the argument is about whether it is a worthwhile use of finances at this time. But there is no real difference in this argument and the argument over the cost of Trident.
Except that one is carried around in a chair...........
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See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11309357 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11309357)
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"The BBC will use up to 400 staff to cover the Pope’s four-day visit to Britain, more people than it sent to the World Cup.
The first day alone, when Pope Benedict XVI arrives in Edinburgh for an audience with the Queen on Thursday, will be covered by 300 staff for more than 12 hours of programming on BBC1, BBC2, BBC News and Radio 5 Live online.
Much of that will be while most of the country is at work. Director general Mark Thompson, a Roman Catholic, has attracted criticism for sidelining other Christian groups and for excessive staffing – 292 were sent to this year’s World Cup and 274 to the Glastonbury Festival."
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/199189/400-BBC-staff-on-Pope-duty- (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/199189/400-BBC-staff-on-Pope-duty-)
:o
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Not bad coverage for a 'third world country'...................
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This German Cardinal who made the gaffe has been eased out of the trip now, but was he actually being a visionary?
He said that he found a culture of aggressive athiesm in the UK....Is he wrong? ..just look at the number of church closures every single week.
Where I come from originally in Yorkshire, the most beautiful gothic or Victorian churches are now mainly Asian carpet shops.
He alluded to the UK being a 3rd world country. Well I have visited many on business....and they were characterised by several things.
1, A failing education system,
2, A broken social morality prevailed, corruption etc...
3, Inability to maintain wealth creating industry such as mining, ship-building or car manufacture...
4, A poorly resourced and misdirected Police Force and Army.
5, A vibrant ''black'' economy
Does this remind you of anywhere we know???
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Comment on Radio 5 this afternoon "How dare he call us a third world country, the Vatican (which is a state in its own right) doesn't even have a motorway service station"!!
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He alluded to the UK being a 3rd world country. Well I have visited many on business....and they were characterised by several things.
1, A failing education system,
2, A broken social morality prevailed, corruption etc...
3, Inability to maintain wealth creating industry such as mining, ship-building or car manufacture...
4, A poorly resourced and misdirected Police Force and Army.
5, A vibrant ''black'' economy
Does this remind you of anywhere we know???
I think I'd take issue with some of those observations, Fester, but that there are problems in UK society is beyond question. Oh - and you forgot 'widespread and culturally-acceptable bribery and corruption of local officials.
))*
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He said that he found a culture of aggressive athiesm in the UK....Is he wrong?
He's probably not wrong...but is there anything wrong with Atheism? How many murders are carried out or wars started in the name of Atheism?
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I read the title as 'Pay Pal' visit ! when I saw what it really meant then I see no reason for the UK government to pay for it, moneys very tight at the moment and its better used elsewhere. Don't get me wrong though welcome to him and I hope he enjoys his visit.
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As we continue to find nothing but Papal visit news on our screens, I think one thing that might well cause outrage were the Pope's remarks about associating Nazism and Hitler with atheism.
Just what Hitler believed is one thing - who can tell? - but he certainly used religion in his speeches and writing, and found plenty of cooperation, especially, as far as I'm aware, among Catholics. Have a look at these photos. (http://alamoministries.com/content/english/Antichrist/nazigallery/photogallery.html) And a very large proportion of ordinary people who followed him willingly enough would have been Christians of one kind or another. The well-known examples of resistance came from Protestants. The idea that Nazism arose from some kind of atheism is just nonsense.
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Surprisingly, the Telegraph (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tomchivers/100046969/pope-visit-blaming-atheists-for-nazism-is-both-silly-and-demonstrably-wrong/) agrees.
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Well, he's gone back to Rome now. Received this wonderful "pope-on-a-rope" souvenir, from a friend called Bob who saw him in Birmingham.
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Thats just fantastic ...a pope in a soap on a rope ...just wonderful.
I mentioned this idea a few weeks ago to Mrs F, and she just shrugged her shoulders, but some genius has gone and done it.
I hope he is raking it in .. he deserves it _))* _))*
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As you enter Vatican City, there are myriad scrubby little shops and stalls selling all sorts of incredibly tatty memorabilia lining either side of the street which leads to St Peter's Square (which actually isn't. of course).
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I was going to make a comment but apparently he's gone back! I must have missed it! ZXZ
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Hope no one's planning to be anywhere important on 21st May:
THE BIBLE’S CALENDAR OF HISTORY (http://www.ebiblefellowship.com/may21/)
The Lord has opened up His people’s understanding to the “Biblical calendar” found on the pages of the Bible. The genealogies of the book of Genesis, primarily in chapters 5 and 11, can be shown to be a precise calendar of the history of mankind in this world. The Bible’s calendar of history is completely accurate and trustworthy.
Since this Bible calendar is given by God in His Word, it can be trusted wholeheartedly. In this brief pamphlet, we will share some of the conclusions derived from the Biblical calendar and from other studies in the Scriptures. However, the amount of information available is far too abundant and complex to get into much detail in this short pamphlet; but we can and will give precise and compelling dates. These dates can be trusted entirely because they come right out of the Bible. (EBiblefellowship has no affiliation with Family Radio; however, we highly recommend that you obtain a free copy of the book “We Are Almost There!” by writing to the following address: Family Stations, Inc., 290 Hegenberger Rd., Oakland, CA 94621. This book goes into far greater detail regarding the timing of Judgment Day and the end of the world. Also, you can read or download “We Are Almost There!” online at: www.familyradio.com (http://www.familyradio.com)).
TIMING OF IMPORTANT EVENTS IN HISTORY
11,013 BC—Creation. God created the world and man (Adam and Eve).
4990 BC—The flood of Noah’s day. All perished in a worldwide flood. Only Noah, his wife, and his 3 sons and their wives survived in the ark (6023 years from creation).
7 BC—The year Jesus Christ was born (11,006 years from creation).
33 AD—The year Jesus Christ was crucified and the church age began (11,045 years from creation; 5023 calendar years from the flood).
1988 AD—This year ended the church age and began the great tribulation period of 23 years (13,000 years from creation).
1994 AD—On September 7th, the first 2300-day period of the great tribulation came to an end and the latter rain began, commencing God’s plan to save a great multitude of people outside of the churches (13,006 years from creation).
2011 AD—On May 21st, Judgment Day will begin and the rapture (the taking up into heaven of God’s elect people) will occur at the end of the 23-year great tribulation. On October 21st, the world will be destroyed by fire (7000 years from the flood; 13,023 years from creation).
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I wonder what excuse they will come up with when we get to the end of 2011 and nothing has happened?
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I seem to remember this sort of thing going on for years. Blokes would walk around with 'The End of the World is Coming" on sandwich boards. Jehovah's Witnesses believe in the calendar, though. According to them, the world has only existed for 13000 years. Not sure how they square that with the fossil record.
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7 BC—The year Jesus Christ was born (11,006 years from creation).
*&( so Jesus was born seven years before Christ?? were there 2 of them _))*
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so Jesus was born seven years before Christ?? were there 2 of them
That's the only bit which is actually correct. Seems like Dionysius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysius_Exiguus) made a mistake with the original calculations
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Humble Dennis should have checked the Census lists. :laugh:
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I'm glad that my holiday is booked for June 2011 and not November 2011 if that's the case! :)