Three Towns Forum
Members' Lounge => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Ian on May 31, 2017, 08:28:05 am
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Prompted by posts which suggest some on the forum feel it's entirely acceptable for bad driving to go unreported (and where some feel that potentially lethal driving isn't that important) I thought we could do with a topic dedicated entirely to driving.
I passed my ordinary driving test some years ago, in common with many on here, and it didn't take me long to realise that the driving test simply gets you the right to drive unaccompanied; it certainly doesn't make you a good driver.
In those day the Police themselves were running week-long driving courses, so a pal I and signed up and we got to know the instructor well enough for him to offer to train us, for three hours at a time, in advanced driving techniques each Saturday. At the end of a fraught three months we took and passed the IAM test.
I've never regretted that, since being trained in that way really makes you aware as a driver of the dreadful standard of driving that occurs. But there are clearly others who think making yourself a decent driver doesn't matter. So what do you think?
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Our eldest daughter is close to gaining her licence and I would like to get her on an advanced driving course. Does anyone know of any locally they can recommend as good value?
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The Police system is called Defensive driving. It aims to enhance driving skills by teaching drivers to read the road, anticipate possible issues and read car positioning, as you might read body language. Sadly, the nearest IAM motorist's group seems to be in Bangor: northwalesgroup@hotmail.com
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Our eldest daughter is close to gaining her licence and I would like to get her on an advanced driving course. Does anyone know of any locally they can recommend as good value?
The IAM groups offer free supervised driving sessions, so it might be worth dropping them an email.
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Prompted by posts which suggest some on the forum feel it's entirely acceptable for bad driving to go unreported (and where some feel that potentially lethal driving isn't that important) I thought we could do with a topic dedicated entirely to driving.
I passed my ordinary driving test some years ago, in common with many on here, and it didn't take me long to realise that the driving test simply gets you the right to drive unaccompanied; it certainly doesn't make you a good driver.
In those day the Police themselves were running week-long driving courses, so a pal I and signed up and we got to know the instructor well enough for him to offer to train us, for three hours at a time, in advanced driving techniques each Saturday. At the end of a fraught three months we took and passed the IAM test.
I've never regretted that, since being trained in that way really makes you aware as a driver of the dreadful standard of driving that occurs. But there are clearly others who think making yourself a decent driver doesn't matter. So what do you think?
I think you need to learn to take a bit of criticism, that's what I think.
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I think you need to learn to take a bit of criticism, that's what I think.
Well, it's an open forum, so perhaps you might try answering the questions I posed instead of making snide comments.
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I think you need to learn to take a bit of criticism, that's what I think.
Well, it's an open forum, so perhaps you might try answering the questions I posed instead of making snide comments.
I'm not going to get into an argument with someone who is never wrong, especially over such a petty thing. All I will say is that that roundabout, as well as the ones at Tesco and NWWN, are all notorious for drivers being in the wrong lane. So I always use a bit of defensive driving and therefore I wouldn't have been as close to the Audi as you were. I drove professionally for 20 years, you learn a lot about reading the road and other driver's skills or lack of in that amount of time.
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My father was ex police and a member of the IAM. He taught me to drive but I failed the test ,much to his annoyance. I took a couple of driving lessons from a retired test examiner who taught me how to be a more relaxed driver.... and then I passed.
I can only say that when my father was a passenger I always felt I was "on test", things like:-
A) driving with the hands on the steering wheel at 10 to 2.
B) viewing the rear view mirror every minute .
It was only when he became elderly and being in the IAM no longer entitled him an insurance discount that he ceased to be a member.
Even he conceded latterly that he was too rigid in his style and I remember being a passenger pointing out his hands were at quarter to three!
I'm sure though that some would benefit from a refresher course and possibly the IAM way of driving is different nowadays.I think some people would fear this..... in case they thought their licence would be revoked!
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I think you need to learn to take a bit of criticism, that's what I think.
Well, it's an open forum, so perhaps you might try answering the questions I posed instead of making snide comments.
I'm not going to get into an argument with someone who is never wrong, especially over such a petty thing.
You just can't help yourself, can you? There's no argument unless you create one. The fastest way to do that is to post snide and unpleasant comments, instead of reasoned and objective observations. And this wasn't about being in the wrong lane; this was about how the driver dealt with being in the wrong lane. And as for being petty, suppose he'd side swiped an elderly lady? Anything of that sort ruins your day and can cause a lot of upset, to say nothing of the potential danger it might have caused. Still, if you don't want to debate objectively, that's your prerogative.
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Rhuddlan, my Dad also partly taught me to drive, way back in the late '60s. He took me in a Ford Corsair which was, to a learner, massive. A friend of his took me out to practice in a Morris Minor ( remember to double de-clutch !) and I had lessons from an instructor who had 3 different cars including an NSU Prinz which was a strange article ! When out with Dad he kept a walking stick by his side and if my foot dared to hover near the clutch for too long he gave it a sharp prod. At the time we had a Triumph Herald in which I learned to negotiate driving in and out of the bends on the old Llanrwst Road.
I could quite fancy an IAM course, but I feel that now at my age I could have left it a little too late !
With regard to the comments on here my biggest criticism is for people who for instance down Penrhyn Hill try to get up the exhaust pipe when I am in the correct lane and doing the correct speed ! $angry$
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Chill out guys, we don't have any proper roundabouts in the UK, I encountered this one on my way through Seville!
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:o
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Nemesis, That is interesting. My dad didn't need to pass the normal driving test as both he was driving before it was introduced apparently.However he was taught to drive lorries during the war and the instructor had a swagger stick and he did something similar
to your dad...prodding when the learner did something wrong!
I passed the test in 1970 in a Hillman Minx.the hand brake was on the right hand side and not obvious to the instructor. I remember him saying I shouldn't toe/heel on a hill start but he seemed reassured when I explained I was actually using the handbrake. in fact I showed it him.If I hadn't I guess I would have failed again!
I remember the exhilaration of driving the car from Rhyl to Bangor and back on my own...my dad was not pleased when I came home...he had checked the fuel tank and the mileometer !
I think my parents were happier when I was driving my first car ( a Ford Popular 1172cc side valve)..it wouldn't take the skin off a rice pudding,three speed gearbox and windscreen wipers that went slow when you drove uphill and went crazy when decelerating. My motorcycling days were over and my mother breathed a sigh of relief ,bless her. Things changed when I started on sports cars, but that's another story!
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I started on M/cs; had a Tiger Cub then eventually a Bonneville.
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Nearly choked on my coffee Rhuddlan, my Dad had an Austin who's wipers did that! He took my Mother in it down the Strines in Derbyshire and it wouldn't go back up the hill with two of them in it. As she didn't drive she had to get out and walk. She wasn't impressed !!! He never took a test either. It also had trafficators which stuck and had to be thumped from inside the car to make them work. :o
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Nemesis, sorry about that. I also recall the pop had a starting handle! Essential in the winter as the electrics were poor !
Ian, I started with m/cs by going with my dad when I was 16 with my provisional licence and no knowledge to Colwyn Bay. Dad thought a 50cc Girelli would be ideal but Geoff Owen(shop owner) saw the look of disappointment on my face and suggested a good British bike....A James 200cc Sports Captain. He could have probably made more on the sale of a new 50cc bike so he was kind enough to sell me something I wanted...particularly as I worked all the summer season on Rhyl Prom flogging lilos and buckets and spades!.Sadly I haven't a pic....I hadn't the money... I recently saw the invoice though....if I find it again i will take a pic and post it.
After that it was more 2 strokes.... a BSA Bantam scrambler for fun and then an Ariel Leader 250 twin.
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I used to drive down to Swindon for work reasons, and football several times a year.
But I never, ever got used to the SEVEN roundabouts, which are all together in one cluster as you get into the town.
They are all painted on the roads, and trying to obey them is nigh on impossible.
Most locals ignore them and drive over them, others try to fathom them.. and it was just chaos as far as I could see.
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1968 motorcyle invoice.....Geoff Owen Colwyn Bay, should be attached.
I see I paid for it in instalments!
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Cars in the wrong line happens every day on the Black Cat Roundabout and more so on the bigger roundabout under the A55 just next to it - plenty of instances recorded on my dashcam - had an instance only this morning that was almost identical to the Audi incident - a Polo did exactly the same thing to a lorry that I was following at that very same point. But enough of that argument.
I bought my first car a week before my 17th birthday in 1966 - a 1963 Austin Mini Countryman - the woodie type, cost me a year's salary (£395) - would love to have one of those now, not seen one for many years!
I never had a professional lesson, just drove round with Dad next to me - I couldn't afford lessons. Did take two goes to pass the test as on the first occasion it rained heavily and the windows steamed up - I hit the kerb when asked to do the manouvere of reversing round a corner!
A few years later, when I was 20, my cousin and I both entered a Road Safety Rally in Liverpool - I had no navigator so completed the course on my own and finished 3rd overall from over 100 entries - won a free IAM Test which I took, without getting any special lessons, a year later and passed!
Over the 50+ years of driving I have averaged about 12k miles a year, my driving has included a fair bit of competition including rally driving on roads and in forests. I am proud of the fact that in all that time I have only had one insurance claim and that was way back in 1975 when I had a slow head-on at a blind bend on a minor road, I had actually stopped but the oncoming car slid on loose gravel. I remember once reading that drivers will have an accident every nine years on average so hope I'm not tempting fate as I'm way overdue for one.
I consider myself to be a careful driver but certainly not infallible so always cautious especially when there are others around - when I started to drive I was told to treat every other driver as a complete idiot, as there are times when you would be correct in that assumption!
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you have brought back some good memories there Nem.I passed my test in 1959 driving in an army champ (type of jeep) you had to take your foot of the gas to get the wipers to work. My first car was a 1949 morris ten, it would never have passed a MOT. if you hit a pot hole you had to wait and see which way the car would go and counteract it. The driving standard today is much higher than in those days and you have to be far more alert on roundabouts and roads in general. We all think we are right when it comes to how people should drive and that's why it is nearly always the other guys fault. The person who has never made a mistake while driving hasn't been born yet but i think the dashcam is one of the best things that has ever been brought in, what can't speak can't lie
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A few years later, when I was 20, my cousin and I both entered a Road Safety Rally in Liverpool - I had no navigator so completed the course on my own and finished 3rd overall from over 100 entries - won a free IAM Test which I took, without getting any special lessons, a year later and passed!
I think I was on that same rally :-)
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The Police system is called Defensive driving. It aims to enhance driving skills by teaching drivers to read the road, anticipate possible issues and read car positioning, as you might read body language. Sadly, the nearest IAM motorist's group seems to be in Bangor: northwalesgroup@hotmail.com
Thank you Ian, this is great info. I will fire off an email now.
Cheers Simon
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Just found a pic of my first car - 1963 Austin Mini Countryman 848cc ... bought just before my 17th birthday in March 1966. Wish I still had it!
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I have posted these pics of the car that belonged to my parents before but here it is again in case you missed it first time DVT.
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I know this is the Driving thread, and this pic is of Parking ... top of hill in Llan Junction yesterday a number of cars parked on the double yellows but this one really takes the prize ... one of those days when the Traffic Warden should have been about!!!
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DVT that's atrocious parking, why don't you send it to the Daily Post as they have a monthly feature of bad parkers.
That could well win the July one.
Don't they have Traffic Wardens in the Junction?
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I have posted these pics of the car that belonged to my parents before but here it is again in case you missed it first time DVT.
Running In. I remember my Dad having those signs when he had a new car. Those were the days!
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There was someone DRIVING this car, that fell 7 stories out of a car park in the US, .. amazing cctv footage.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-40904076/car-plunges-seven-storeys-off-us-parking-garage (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-40904076/car-plunges-seven-storeys-off-us-parking-garage)
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That was an incredible bit of good luck that the two drivers escaped getting killed when the car fell from 7 storeys.
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Almost 200 drink- and drug-drivers stopped in North Wales in December
The annual campaign, which ran from December 1, 2024 to January 1, 2025, saw 66 arrests across the region for drink-driving, with another 108 for drug-driving.
Ages of those arrested on suspicion of drug-driving range between 17 and 71, and those arrested on suspicion of drink-driving between 20 and 78.
https://ct.moreover.com/?a=55742907980&p=14e&v=1&x=0Dc2cmEJdPZuV-xs19OUKw&u1=ND&u2=up-urn:user:PA187552270
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Motorists warned 'friendly' gesture could land you in hot water - or be a scam
Flashing headlights could also be misinterpreted, say insurance experts :-\
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/motorists-warned-friendly-gesture-could-30806581
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The Anglesey & Gwynedd roads where motorists drove at more than 110mph
The highest speeds which have been recorded on the roads of Denbighshire, Conwy, Gwynedd and Anglesey in the last five years have been revealed
https://ct.moreover.com/?a=55822751808&p=14e&v=1&x=VJdN2tzv0m_rU0HRCx6p-g&u1=ND&u2=up-urn:user:PA187552270
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Driver caught four times over speed limit but overall 20mph offences down in North Wales
The latest 20mph statistics show two major things
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/driver-caught-four-times-over-30971233
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Car left stranded in giant sand drifts at iconic North Wales beach
Diggers have moved in but regular visitor want a long-term remedy
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/whats-on/trips-breaks/car-left-stranded-giant-sand-30983949
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Extra £600K for Welsh 20mph speed checks that put talking ahead of fines and points
Welsh Government has agreed the funding for the coming financial year
Welsh Government has agreed additional funding for a speed check scheme that puts education ahead of fines and points. The Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales, Ken Skates has signed off on an additional £600,000 for GoSafe in the 2025/26 financial year - in particular for Operation Ugain.
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/extra-600k-welsh-20mph-speed-30994249
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Ken Skates has signed off on an additional £600,000 for GoSafe in the 2025/26 financial year - in particular for Operation Ugain.
How about putting it into the NHS.
Isn't the speed limit paying for itself with all the fines?
The sooner we get rid of the Senedd the better.
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It does seem like a waste of money and they should use it to pay for the cost of changing some of the speed limit signs from 20 mph to 30 mph
Some motorists can't be educated and their bad driving will continue
There was another potty idea of the Senedd to ban cars from parking on pavements even if they weren't causing an obstruction. It's bonkers
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Number of drink drivers in North Wales last year
The Association of Police and Crime Commissioners (APCC) recently joined the increasing calls for a reduction in the legal blood alcohol limit for UK drivers after the latest figures from the Department for Transport revealed drink-driving deaths have risen to 300 a year - a 13-year-high.
https://ct.moreover.com/?a=56057636060&p=14e&v=1&x=Tkzvs7pnsZY8mHoC89oGTQ&u1=ND&u2=up-urn:user:PA187552270
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140,000 driving licences revoked by DVLA 'alarming' FOI shows
One in 244 North Wales drivers with an LL postcode have been banned
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/140000-driving-licences-revoked-dvla-31484925
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Biker picked 'worst time' to pull a wheelie on road in Flintshire
The timing was bad for the biker but perfect for the police
A biker picked the "worst time" to pull a wheelie on a North Wales road. The incident happened in North Flintshire this afternoon.
Unluckily for the rider he performed the stunt in front of an unmarked police car in the Shotton area. In addition to that the rider was already on a section 59 warning. Some people you can't educate
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/biker-picked-worst-time-pull-31505253
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Biker chose to ride like this - but didn't realise who he was overtaking
The rider was travelling on the A470 in Gwynedd when he was captured on camera
A video has captured the moment a biker was caught overtaking an unmarked police car on solid white lines. Dashcam footage from the police vehicle captured the manoeuvre, which happened on the A470, at Ganllwyd, Gwynedd, last year.
The footage has been released in a bid to highlight North Wales Polices' OpApex campaign, to reduce the risk of motorcycle-related deaths and serious injuries on the roads.
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/biker-chose-ride-like-didnt-31603852
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DVLA warning as drivers face £1,000 fine for not declaring seven key changes
The DVLA is warning drivers that they must declare seven key changes or face fines of up to £1,000 and points on their licence. Here's what motorists need to know
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/dvla-warning-drivers-face-1000-31578579
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Slapping tourist with 20mph speeding ticket branded 'lunacy' by some but welcome by others
Martin Toms was on a trip to Wales when he was caught driving at 31mph in a 20mph zone
Some interesting comments from the readers about this subject
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/news-opinion/slapping-tourist-20mph-speeding-ticket-31616585
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Police alert to drivers confused when blue lights are flashing - what you need to know
North Wales Police says motorists not knowing what to do can cause delays and 'difference between life and death'
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/police-alert-drivers-confused-blue-31645838
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https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/i-underestimated-situation-here-says-31659153
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I was timed out on my last posting as I had to take a phone call so I'll try again !
'I underestimated the situation here' says driver in Eryri parking mishap
Trip to walk Crib Goch started badly after attempting to park next to road near Yr Wyddfa
All i can say to the woman is that if her hiking skills are as bad as her parking skills then she should stay clear of Crib Goch
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/i-underestimated-situation-here-says-31659153
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Speed fine blitz on 20mph roads as holidaymakers packed North Wales
There was a spike in fines dished out in the region last month
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/speed-fine-blitz-20mph-roads-31683302
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10mph speed limit on some roads is 'interesting' idea says Welsh Government minister
Campaigners suggested 20mph limits might be needed on country roads to reduce casualty rates
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/10mph-speed-limit-roads-interesting-31689438
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Massive hike in speeding fines as tourist season kicks off 'get 3 points as a souvenir'
The number of speeding fines handed out on 20mph roads in North Wales has been revealed
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/news-opinion/massive-hike-speeding-fines-tourist-31690368
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Police stopped drivers to test their eyes but found a lot more to worry about
Officers found multiple misdemeanours when carrying out the checks
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/police-stopped-drivers-test-eyes-32111519
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'Secret fact they don't want you to know' as readers debate speed fines in North Wales
The statistics have led to a heated debate on the Daily Post's Facebook page, with readers sharing their opinions on speed limits and road safety
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/news-opinion/motorists-fury-after-nearly-50000-32133662
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Drivers caught breaking 20mph speed limit face major change
The controversial 20mph default speed limit was introduced in Wales in 2023
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/drivers-caught-breaking-20mph-speed-32179269
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Van crashes through NCP car park wall and dangles from first floor injuring three
The casualties, injured by falling rubble, were rushed to hospital
Let's hope that the casualties are not having life changing injuries
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/van-crashes-through-ncp-car-32179342
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Horrible incident ... but since when has Leeds been in north Wales?
Daily Post reporters need to study a map, this is not the first instance of a headline report being under "North Wales News" yet happened well ouit of our area.
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Big change coming to driving licences in the UK: What you need to know
The new digital driving licence will be one of the first electronic documents to be issued in a new GOV.UK Wallet app
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/big-change-coming-driving-licences-32187695
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UK driving laws overhaul: Three big changes to rules planned
Proposed changes include new tests for older drivers, change to the drink drive limit and people who don't wear seatbelts
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/uk-driving-laws-overhaul-three-32239206
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Dashcam shows heart-stopping moment car driver's 'stupid decision' caused crash with bus
Renault driver Andrew Spriggs was sentenced for causing serious injury by careless driving
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/dashcam-shows-heart-stopping-moment-32378031
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Drivers using mobile phones 'continue to endanger people' after dozen caught in a day
A drug driver and people not wearing seatbelts also caught, with a knife seized during police operation
If driving and using a mobile phone is as dangerous as drink and drug driving and I've no doubt it is,then drivers who use a mobile phone should be treated the same. They should be fined and banned from driving
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/drivers-using-mobile-phones-continue-32379763
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Police crackdown on illegal parking near primary schools amid 'shocking excuses'
'Anyone who is a parent or guardian and is so inconsiderate of others safety, or there own kids safety, should be ashamed of themselves'
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/police-crackdown-illegal-parking-near-32418074
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Biker's beeped horn in town centre today and started an unfortunate chain of events
The motorcyclist will be regretting using his horn in Colwyn Bay
"So for those who often pipe up in the comments about Police stopping vehicles and 'having nothing better to do' here is just one of many many examples of a routine stop for advice turning into something more significant that needs to be dealt with.
Well done the Police, that's one idiot off the road
https://www.newsdesk.lexisnexis.com/click/?t=4&a=57688494619&f=News&s=1&ci=334&i=283&si=36145&fmi=169660862&e=North+Wales+Daily+Post&d=685&mbc=Q1QzL2E9NTc2ODg0OTQ2MTkmcD0xNGUmdj0xJng9RzNWQ296OURBY2d4dm1rZmE1WTVPUSZ1MT1ORCZ1Mj11cC11cm46dXNlcjpQQTE4NzU1MjI3MA&fi=119597&ac=&ck=e7fa2a65a268a857
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Police used unmarked HGV to catch A55 drivers doing these three things
Unsuspected drivers faced fines and penalty points after being caught
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/police-used-unmarked-hgv-catch-32488794
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North Wales Police warn parents about school parking and were left open-mouthed by the response
'This kind of attitude towards child safety is shockingly unacceptable and needs to stop'
Just book them and give the cars a good check out should stop the bad drivers from reoffending
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/north-wales-police-warn-parents-32579045
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Police in Welsh county warn drivers 'could be charged' for failing to do one thing
North Wales Police shamed drivers who held up patrols on a recent incident
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/police-welsh-county-warn-drivers-32737448