Three Towns Forum
The Local => Genealogy & Research => Topic started by: pojo on November 08, 2012, 07:52:13 pm
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A relative named Margaret Shields was born in 1874/5 in Ffolt Porth, in the parish of Llangwstenin.
I'm curious as to where Ffolt Porth is?
Any help will be very much appreciated!!
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Pojo, Ffolt is in Glanwydden and part of it includes the old Baptist Cemetery in Ffordd Wiga. I don't know exactly where Porth is but if you look on Google street view at Glanwydden look for the Queens Head pub on your left as you approach from Penrhyn Bay and at the cross roads turn right down Waen Road and that is the area of where Ffolt is.
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Pojo, I had a look in the 1881 Census for Glanwydden, but could not find Porth and there wasn't a family by the name of Shields living in the village either.
I presume that the family have either left the village by that time or that Margaret's maiden name was not Shields. Was Shields in fact her maiden name?
There was however a girl in the Census called Margaret who would have been the same age as your relative but her surname wasn't Shields and although her address was in Ffolt it wasn't Porth.
Do you know if Margaret had an older brother?
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Hi Hugo,
Thanks for your replies. I should have been clearer about the names.
Margaret became Shields when she married Donald Donaldson Shields in 1904, I think she was born Griffiths.
Donald Shields' first wife was also called Margaret but came from Penmachno. In 1901 they were living at 15 Alexandra Terrace, Llandudno. Margaret no.1 died in 1902.
As I undertand it, they were living in the parish of Eglwysrhos, is this what we now know as Llanrhos? & is it possible she's buried at Llanrhos church do you think?
In the 1911 census, the Shields family are living at Fair View, Tywyn, Deganwy (Can't find any info on where Fair View is), they eventually move to Trefriw.
The fact that there were to wives called Margaret has caused no end of confusion!
Thanks again,
Pojo
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I may be able to help with some of your queries.
The name Eglwysrhos or Llanrhos virtually interchangeable but the legal name of the civil parish was Llandudno cum Eglwysrhos. Llanrhos derives from from the original ecclesiastical parish name which was Llanfair yn Rhos. Nowadays Llanrhos is the generally accepted name for conversation and address purposes. The civil parish and the ecclesiastical parishes were no longer coterminous following various local government boundary changes in the last century.
The Eglwysrhos/Llanrhos parish extent covered much of Llandudno. Alexandra Terrace (now Alexandra Road), although in Llandudno, was for church and civil administrative purposes , in Llanrhos/Eglwysrhos.
"Fairview" in Tywyn was a dwelling in Pentywyn Road a few doors up from where the Farmers' Arms public house was situated. I am not sure if the dwelling is still there as there have been changes over the years including the demolition of the pub.
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Thanks for the reply Cambrian!
I take it that Fair View would be between The Farmers Arms & Ysgol Deganwy, possibly where the flat are now? I wonder if there are any old photos of the building?!!
Donald Shields was a Blacksmith (own account) according to my census information.
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Pojo, the Margaret I was thinking of was Margaret Evans who lived at Waunhyfryd Ffolt. She would have been born about 1874.
Since you posted the name Griffiths, I checked the Census again and there is a Margaret Griffiths listed near the top. It doesn't give the name of the house but it seems that it would have been somewhere between Ty Newydd and Ffolt Cottages which are on Waun Road and it may have been demolished since.
My Nain and Taid lived in Eglwysrhos ( near to Alexandra Terrace) but are buried at St Tudno's on the Great Orme so your relations could have been buried there or in Llanrhos. If they were Baptists then they could have been buried in Ffolt Glanwydden.
The Conwy Archives at Llandudno has a list of graves and as it is alphabetical then they are not hard to trace providing of course that there is a headstone with an inscription on it.
Fairview Pentywyn Road was demolished about 2006 but I can't picture where it was as those flats were built years ago.
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Fair View seems to have been corrupted to Fir View in later years. It was a small butchers' shop on the western side of road junction of Pentywyn Road and Plas Newydd. As Hugo says, it was demolished about 6 years ago along with its neighbours. The site is now a vacant plot awaiting development.
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Thanks Cambrian, my aunt used to go down the hill to that Butchers and if my memory serves me right then you had to be careful coming out of the shop because there wasn't a pavement and you had to watch out for cars coming up the hill.
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That's the one Hugo. The living accommodation was to the rear and above the shop. I think there was another small shop close by that was converted to a house.
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Thanks very much for your replies & help! You've helped sort out a few questions I had.
I thought I'd share a picture of Margaret Shields no.2 & Donald Donaldson Shields (In his Salvation Army uniform), not sure where or when it was taken!
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Pojo, I've had a look at Census records for a number of years but Ffolt Porth is not listed as an address on any of the Census records.
In English Porth means gate, gateway or porch and I've just been reading Chris Drapers book on a walk in Glanwydden and in the book at pg 86 he refers to walking up Ffordd Wiga past the Baptist Cemetery and just behind the last terraced house is an arched entrance gate and this slightly castellated arch was the entrance gate to the original school that was demolished in the 1950's.
These cottages are in Ffolt and I wonder if that is where your relative lived and these cottages were identified by their proximity to the gate as there are still some cottages nearer Glanwydden that are also called Ffolt Cottages. ?{}?
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I had a walk up Ffordd Wiga today and had a look at Ffolt Cottages. This terrace of Cottages must be where your relative Margaret lived although I am not sure what No she lived at.
The crenellated arch that Chris Draper referred to is no longer there and must have been demolished since the book was printed.
I did have a very quick look at the Burial indexes in the Conwy Archives and can find no mention of Margaret or Donald in the records for St Tudno's, Llanrhos, Glanwydden or Trefriw.
What I didn't realise at the time was that The Salvation Army is mainly mainstream Methodists so they may be buried at a special Cemetery for Methodists.
Have you any idea when or where they were buried Pojo?
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I didn't take any notice of it at the time, but looking back at some of my photos and having read Chris Draper's book again I wonder if the gate in the Ivy covered wall is the slightly crenelated arch that he is refering to?
I'll have a better look next time I go there.
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From the family history that I've been told, Donald Shields died up in Barnsley, Yorkshire (2 of the children from the 2nd marriage had settled in Yorkshire) I presume that he's buried up there.
His father John William Shields was from Yorkshire, but he died in Llanrwst. I'll try & find out if Margaret no 2 died in Yorkshire as well.
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I've just spoken to a guy called Bob who knows everything about the history of Glanwydden and he confirmed that the terrace of cottages I photographed yesterday are the Ffolt Porth that you were looking for.
The door way in the hedge was where the local school was. It was opened on 9th July 1877 and was a one up one down affair with the infants downstairs and the rest upstairs.
Your relative Margaret would have gone to this school but at least she didn't have far to walk!
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Pojo, if your relative was the Margaret Griffiths in the 1881 Census, I have only just noticed something.
There were 4 people listed in the Census as living there:- John Griffiths aged 64, his wife Margaret aged 60 and two children. Robert Thomas a grandson aged 9 and Margaret a granddaughter aged 5.
Your Margaret is the Granddaughter but there is no mention of her parents or of Robert Thomas' either which seems strange and I wonder what happened to them!
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I've had a look at the Census records again from 1841 through to 1891 and found out that it was No 4 Ffolt Cottage that Margaret lived at. In the Census records Margaret's Grandparents had two daughters, May and her younger sister Anne. As there were no sons from the Grandparents marriage then I presume that Margaret was the illegitimate daughter of one of those two girls.
In fact three Grandchildren lived there with the Grandparents, Margaret Griffiths, Robert Thomas and Elizabeth Griffiths.
John, Margaret's Grandfather lived in Fforddlas Llansanffraid Glan Conwy in the 1841 Census. Also living there was John's father also called John and Ann his mother plus 4 sisters.
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Pojo, the house on the left with the leaded windows is No 4 Ffolt Cottages. This would have been the back entrance and the front overlooks the old Baptist Cemetery
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Pojo, you now know that Margaret your Grandmother lived at No 4 Ffolt Cottages and there are photos of the cottage shown above.
I was in the Conwy Archives today and found out some more info for you.
The Baptism records for Llangystenin show that at No 719 your grandmother was Baptised on 7th Nov 1875. Her parents names were only listed as Anne Griffiths which confirms what I had assumed previously that Margaret was illegitimate.
So your G Grandmother is Anne Griffiths.
Your G G Grandfather John Griffiths died 18th April 1896 aged 76, your G G Grandmother died 19th June 1906 and they are buried at grave No 081 at Llangystennin Church.
Your G G G Grandfather John Griffiths died 21st July 1860 aged 79 and his wife your G G G Grandmother Ann Griffiths died 29th January 1868 aged 76. They are buried at grave No 226 at Llansanffraid Church Glan Conwy
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Thank you so much for your help! $good$
This really helps fill in the gaps as to who Margaret no.2 was!!
I've been given my Nain's address book, which confirms that Margaret & Donald Shields did move to Yorkshire after living in various places in this area, they finally settled in Halifax & we have relatives in Sowerby Bridge!!