Three Towns Forum
The Local => Genealogy & Research => Topic started by: sam on May 12, 2012, 08:56:08 pm
-
I have been told that my great or great great grandfather was once the Deacon of Penrhynside Chapel -which one of the five I don't know. What I do know is that his surname was Harris. Does anyone know how I would be able to find out if this is true...I assume there would be records of all clergymen maybe in some church archives :/
Also are there any local Harris's/descendants on the forum? My Harris's were living in Penrhynside/ Pant Y Wennol area up until 1960 before moving Llandudno.
-
The street directories in Llandudno library will have listings of all the churches in the area and the names of the clergy,otherwise it would be the archives in Lloyd street that would have the information. I've got a 1929 copy of the directory with a few Harrises listed in Penrhynside but none of them clergymen, do you have a rough idea of date of birth?
-
If it's my great grandfather then his d.o.b. could be anywhere between 1880 - 1900 though I would guess 1880 give or take a few years. If it's my great great then I'd guess between 1850/55 maybe later. Probably not much help there. My great gf was a quarryman in Penrhynside so I assume it was his father that was the Deacon.
-
If it's my great grandfather then his d.o.b. could be anywhere between 1880 - 1900 though I would guess 1880 give or take a few years. If it's my great great then I'd guess between 1850/55 maybe later. Probably not much help there. My great gf was a quarryman in Penrhynside so I assume it was his father that was the Deacon.
I haven't any idea about the Deacon in your family but the 1911 Census shows John Harris, then aged 35 living on his own in Pant Y Wennol. He was a quarryman that worked on the Little Orme. He was born in Llandudno and spoke both Welsh and English.
The 1881 Census shows that his Family were living in Pant Y Wennol and that his father Robert Harris was born about 1842 and was a painter by trade and born in Meborne, Derbyshire England
-
Thanks Hugo....good chance that they are my great and great great grandfathers. Was never sure about the Deacon story - as is always the way with family history you hear snippets here and there but when you try and follow up the information you end up at a brick wall. Still I'll keep looking. If they are my relations then it looks like some more of my Welsh roots are disappearing :(
"....his father Robert Harris was born about 1842 and was a painter by trade and born in Meborne, Derbyshire England "
I would assume that he was a house painter and not an artist like me :roll:
-
Sam
I know a Robert Harris who still lives locally. His father died in a fall off the Great Orme about 68 years ago when Robert was 3.
His father, he tells me, was called Sam and was born at 10 Mount Pleasant, Penrhynside. I reckon his father would have been born about 1903. Sounds like this is the same family.
-
In case it helps, from 1895 until 1934, Penrhynside was in the civil parish of Penrhyn. After 1934 it was in the civil parish of Llandudno cum Eglwysrhos until 1974.
-
Ah cheers Cambrian - then that Sam Harris is likely to be the son of Robert George Harris and Annie Harris of 10 Mount Pleasant and the brother of (another !) Robert Harris as I found this information on my cyber travels:
http://historypoints.org/index.php?page=penrhynside-war-memorial-fww (http://historypoints.org/index.php?page=penrhynside-war-memorial-fww)
•Robert Harris, 20454 died 01/09/1917. Royal Welsh Fusiliers "B" Coy. 14th Bn. Commemorated at Tyne Cot Memorial, Belgium. Son of Robert George and Annie Harris of 10 Mount Pleasant, Penrhynside.
Robert was the eldest of 14 children in the family. Five of the brothers went to war and all but Robert survived, although injuries from a gas attack in France are likely to have hastened the death of one brother, Elias, in 1931. Robert may have been one of the casualties when battalion headquarters were struck by enemy shells.
http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Caernarvonshire/Penrhynside.html (http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Caernarvonshire/Penrhynside.html)
HARRIS Robert Private 20454, "B" Company, 14th Battalion, Royal Welsh
Fusiliers. Killed in action 2nd September 1917. Aged 27. Born and resident
Landudno, enlisted Colwyn Bay. Son of Robert George and Annie Harris, of 10,
Mount Pleasant, Penrhynside, Llandudno. Commemorated on TYNE COT MEMORIAL,
Zonnebeke, West-Vlaanderen, Belgium. Panel 63 to 65.
Also found this which mentions the aforesaid Robert Harris:
http://www.rwfmuseum.org.uk/nb.html (http://www.rwfmuseum.org.uk/nb.html)
Pte Samuel Hall and the Forgotten Front (Salonika 1916-18). Contributed by Dr C M Hall
Private Samuel E. Hall (11th Battalion RWF)
& The Forgotten Front (Salonika 1916-18)
by Dr. C. M. Hall
"After the out break of World War One on 4th August 1914, young patriotic men all over the country rallied to Kitchener’s call to enlist for ‘King and Country’. Initially filled with nostalgic ideas of warfare, the combination of old tactics and new weapons soon led to the horrors of trench warfare, something that no soldier had ever envisaged. The well known battles of Verdun, Jutland, the Somme and Passchendaele claimed many young British lives, wiping out an entire generation during four long years. However, the “Forgotten Front” of Macedonia and Salonika 1916-1918 has not received as much attention as Gallipoli and Mesopotamia as it was regarded at the time as a sideshow. The 11th Battalion of the Royal Welch Fusiliers endured nearly all but two months of the War in Salonika. It was in the final few months before the end of the War that many who had survived the appalling conditions and enemy fire, fell at the Battle of Doiran in Salonika. One of those soldiers was Private Samuel E. Hall.
Private Samuel E. Hall (born 1895) was the oldest of four children. His father, Joseph Hall (b. 14th April 1861), a stone mason and a lay preacher, and his mother Jane Hall (b. 16th January 1873) resided at 2 Mount Pleasant, Penrhynside, Llandudno. Two of his brothers, Ephraim (Navy) and
William (Army) fought during World War One, with Ephraim and the youngest of the four, Joseph, fighting during the Second World War.
As the eldest child of age, Private Samuel Hall was the first to enlist. He enlisted at the Town Hall on Lloyd Street in Llandudno. Like so many of the so called ‘pals’ he enlisted with childhood friends who also resided on Mount Pleasant. He was joined by Edward Evans (3 Mount Pleasant) who, having enlisted in Wrexham went on to be a driver in “B” Battery of the 298th Brigade, Royal Field Artillery. He was killed in action on the 30th November 1917.
Then there was Robert Harris, son of Robert and Annie Harris of 10 Mount Pleasant. After enlisting in Colwyn Bay, Harris went on to be a private in “B” company of the 14th Battalion of the Royal Welch Fusiliers. Robert fell on the 2nd September 1917 aged 27. "
We must never forget these brave men R.I.P. to all :(
I would assume that the Robert Harris that you mention Cambrian would be aware of his family history but possibly due to his fathers tragic early demise he may not have had the information passed down to him - though probably one of his many aunts and uncles would have spoken about it.
As I don't yet know who my Great Grandfather Harris was and how many siblings he had and what their names were then I'm still pretty much in the dark at the moment. If I'm related to the present Robert Harris then I guess his Grandfather Robert George could be my Grandfathers (Great ?) Uncle and that Sam could be my Grandfathers first cousin making the present Robert Harris my.....second cousin twice removed or something like that. ???
It also gets very confusing when everyone had the same names and all lived in the same area!(Incidently there's no relation to my name Sam and the other Sam as mine is the female version and obviously my mother wouldn't have known about a Sam in the family! ) I feel I'm getting closer in my quest though thanks to this forum - thanks for the info all I really appreciate it $thanx$
-
Just to let you know that when I was looking for something in the Conwy Archives at Lloyd Street, I came across the book "Bodafon and Pant Y Wennol" by Kenneth Dibble.
I only had a quick peep in it but the book was full of information about that area with names dates etc. If anyone is interested in that area then that book is worth a read. $good$
-
Thanks Hugo...I have been meaning to go there for ages and have been wanting to read that book too. I have never actually been there for some reason though ..... not since I was at school there anyway- didn't like it when the library was there for a bit ...think I went in once but it felt strange as a library so think I left without getting a book! Used to love all the Alice in Wonderland paintings in the childrens section of the town library before they did the place up...shame to see them go. I remember Tweedle dum and Tweedle Dee by the old oak low childrens reading table I think it was. So yes I will get myself down there for a ganders :)
-
I felt strange when I went to the Archives too, as it was the first time that I had been back there since my school days. The headmasters office is on the left as you go in the building and I can still remember getting the cane from Mr Williams who was the head at the time. $smack$
-
I haven't any idea about the Deacon in your family but the 1911 Census shows John Harris, then aged 35 living on his own in Pant Y Wennol. He was a quarryman that worked on the Little Orme. He was born in Llandudno and spoke both Welsh and English.
The 1881 Census shows that his Family were living in Pant Y Wennol and that his father Robert Harris was born about 1842 and was a painter by trade and born in Meborne, Derbyshire England
_____________________
Sac À Main Longchamp (http://saclongchampchers.net)
-
Snap! That's like my post of 30th May 2012. ???
-
Word for word :o...........so dbsdassa thanks for posting...I think...but why have you copied and pasted Hugos post??? Or is it just a coincidence???Or not...hmmm ??? Indeed.
-
Just noticed you've literally just joined the forum dbsdassa.....why not introduce yourself in the Welcome thread? ;D And why does that link at the bottom of your profile thingy go to a french handbag shopping site???? ??? Tell me more.....!!! :roll:
-
Hi, Just joined the forum and found a conversation about the Harris family Pant y Wennol and Mount Pleasant Penrhynside. I have 2 postcards sent from the trenches in Belgium from Robert Harris 10 Mount Pleasant. He sent them to my Nain (Nell Harris) his cousin. Her father was Robert Alfred Harris , brother to Robert George Harris. Would be interested to hear from any other relatives. Janet
-
Hi, Just joined the forum and found a conversation about the Harris family Pant y Wennol and Mount Pleasant Penrhynside. I have 2 postcards sent from the trenches in Belgium from Robert Harris 10 Mount Pleasant. He sent them to my Nain (Nell Harris) his cousin. Her father was Robert Alfred Harris , brother to Robert George Harris. Would be interested to hear from any other relatives. Janet
-
Hi Janet
Sorry didn't mean to quote you, just getting my head round responding.
My father Hugh Harris was Robert Harris' brother. He was one of the youngest of the 14 children, would be interested to see copies of the postcards from Robert Harris as he was my Uncle. We have visited the memorial at Tyne Cot where he is listed.
Also would like more information on Pant Y Wennol where Ellen my great, grandmother was from but apparently my great grandfather Robert Harris was from Melborne, Derbyshire. I think Ellen's maiden name was Evans.
I have quite a-lot of information about the paternal side of the family but not much on the maternal side, so any new information would be great.
MargaretJ
-
This is Pant Y Wennol in February 2015 when I had a walk in that area. In the 1800's there were three little terraced blocks of ten houses in total and the old Chapel of Penberth ( on the right of the photo) was opened in 1861 but later closed and was converted into a house.
Nowadays the cottages have been modernised and there are only a few families up there but the views are fantastic.
-
Thanks for the photo we were up there last week and thought that cottage was the old chapel, appreciate the confirmation.
-
Penberth was originally the Chapel for Pant Y Wennol and was opened in 1861 but when the larger Bethania Chapel opened in Craig Y Don in 1886 most of the Chapel members preferred to worship there.
As a result Penberth Chapel later closed and was converted into a house.
I don't know if you are aware or not but the late Kenneth Dibble wrote a very interesting booklet on Bodafon and Pant Y Wennol and you can see it at the Conwy Archives in Lloyd Street Llandudno. He also wrote about Penrhynside and the Little Orme amongst other articles and there are loads of interesting details in all of them.
-
Thanks Hugo I have the Kenneth Dibble books except the one on Pant Y Wennol but next time I am in the Archive centre in Lloyd Street I will check it out.
Margaret J