Three Towns Forum
The Local => Genealogy & Research => Topic started by: Tanya on February 25, 2012, 06:09:31 pm
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Hello There!
I'm looking for rellies who have ancestors in Llandudno ;)
I'm particularly interested in:
John Edwards abt 1786-1884 (miner, then cab driver, lived in Tanyrallt Cottages) & Sarah Jones (1791-1865)
Their children:
Elizabeth 1815-1888 (lived in Liverpool & married Joseph Davies)
Samuel 1817-1885 (a bathing machine operator) married Ellinor, then Mary Jones - lived in Morfa Cottages in 1851
Margaret 1822- married William Britain, no issue - lived in Barton upon Irwell
Hugh 1825-1827, mariied Eleanor ?, then Jane Davies
Sarah 1828-1900, married John Reeves and ran the Cocoa House.
Grace 1831-1905, married Thomas Rawling - lived in Tanyrallt Cottages
John 1833- married Anne Williams?
Anne 1834, married Richard Williams, then William Jones
Robert 1836-1906, married Jane Williams
Others:
Emma (nee Reeves) & George Timms who ran various hotels, including the Wilton;
Mary Williams (formally Shaw, formally Davies, formally Reeves), who ran the Cambridge restaurant
Sarah (nee Reeves) & Hugh Hughes (Hugh took his wife's maiden name and they became Reeves Hughes!) ran Cocoa House and may have been involved in the Suffragette movement.
Ann Jane (nee Rawling) and Isaac Gatley
That'll do for now!
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Need to make a correction (sorry Jason :roll:) Samuel Edwards' (1817-1885) wasn't the bathing machine operator....it was his son, Sam (1862-1926) who was the chap who protected the modesty of the ladies who wished to partake a dip! :o
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Hi Tanya,
Did the Robert EDWARDS you have here born 1836 have a son Samuel born 1871 who went on to marry Eleanor WILLIAMS in 1895? I have such a gentleman but no wife for him, in my tree. Samuel (the son)was an engine driver in 1895. He and Eleanor had 4 children by 1911 though one had died. The 3 surviving were Sidney Albert bn 1897, Edith Martha bn 1899 and Robert John bn 1901. In 1911 they were living at Back Tanrallt. My link is Eleanor WILLIAMS but I am in touch with someone on the direct line of this family
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Hello Jom
Yes, he did have a son, Samuel born in 1871. The Robert Edwards I have, married Jane Williams on 1 May 1863. I have a copy of the parish record. Her father was John Williams, master mariner. In the 1861 census, his wife was Sarah. Jane was born around 1840. The witnesses were Llewelyn Parry & Mary Hughes. I've also got a copy of the parish marriage record between your Samuel & Eleanor Louisa Williams....I can send you a copy of both records, if you haven't got them? My line is through Elizabeth, Robert's eldest sister. She went to Liverpool and married Joseph Davies. I would love to get in touch with your someone on the direct line of the family! Looking through the national probate index, I saw that Robert left a will in Nov. 1906 with the effects of £539, executor was his son Samuel. Will be interesting to get the will, one day!
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Hi,maybe a long shot but does anyone know of my great grandmother Annie Harris nee Edwards born c .1885 from the Penrhynside area? She lived in a chapel in Penrhynside I think. She married John? Harris. They moved to Pant Y Wennol and had five children. Would love to know anything about the Edwards branch of the family.
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According to the 1929 Street Index of Llandudno J Harris was living at 4 Pant Y Wennol. The cottages have been modernised over the years but this is a recent photo of them.
Do you know the name of the parents of Annie Edwards as there are hundreds of Annie Edwards' on the Census records?
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Hi Hugo :) Unfortunately I don't know Annies parents names but her children were: Fanny ?Harris, Thomas George Harris b.28th Aug.1923 (my taid),William or Bill Harris, Robert or Bob Harris,and Ann-Ellen Harris. Don't know if she had siblings - there is a chance I could find out a bit more but not sure if anyone will know any more than I do. I'll ask if anyone knew if it was no.4 Pant Y Wennol. Thanks for posting the pic - the whole family lived up that way for years including my mum till she was about six years old - s'lovely up there. Well thanks for the reply - appreciate that $good$ Will keep looking - nothing ventured nothing gained 8)
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Sam, thanks for posting that info, but to get more info regarding the Edwards side it helps if you have info re the parents/siblings names. Although I tried to trace them on the 1891,1901 and 1911 Census records I didn't have much luck.
The only thing I found out is that if I want to trace people from Penrhynside for that period you put in the place of birth as Llangystenin.
That was actually the Parish name in those days. Some Edwards' names came up but they were not living in the Chapel houses at the time.
The Census records or Find my Past are handy sites for tracing people up to 1911 and they are free at our local Library.
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Thanks for looking and for the info/advice. $thanx$ I'll take a trip to the library then I guess. Not sure how far my Edwards go back in the area ..or the Harris's for that matter!
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According to the 1911 Census there was an Annie Edwards living at Pant Y Wennol and her parents were Edward John Edwards and Ann Edwards. This however did not tie in with your Annie Edwards though as this Annie was single and aged 30 at the time of the Census and was born in 1881 and the address is not in Penrhynside although it is very near to there.
Pant Y Wennol did have a Chapel though and it's on the right hand side of the photo.
By coincidence there was a Harris family living in the terrace although there was no J Harris there at the date of the Census.
By the way do you know where Annie was born? I've just assumed it was Penrhynside but it doesn't tie in with any records I've seen.
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Hugo/Sam
In Ken Dibble's book on Pant y Wennol, there is reference to an Ann Edwards, daughter of George and Ann Edwards who were living at the Old Chapel. She was 10 years old in 1891 (he quotes the census). I wonder if this is the Ann you are looking for.
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Sounds like a good book Cambrian. Chris Draper refers to the Chapel in his walking book and Penberth was originally the Chapel for Pant Y Wennol and it was opened in 1861 but when the larger Bethania Chapel was built in Craig Y Don in 1886 most of the Chapel members preferred to worship there so the Pant Y Wennol Chapel was converted into a house.
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Grrrrr just spent ages typing in reply to the posts - just about to post and my pc crashed :rage: twice!! :rage: :rage: Nevermind maybe I should keep my replies a bit shorter anyway :roll:
Thanks Hugo and Cambrian - all info is greatly appreciated. I don't know where Annie was born though I also assume it was in the area. The Annie you mention Hugo could well be my Great Grandmother as her first child Fanny was illegitimate (and as far as I know was almost a generation older than her four siblings) so Annie could have been single in the 1911 census.
I will show the photo of the chapel to my mum and nain as they would know if this was the place in question.Unfortunately my nains memory is not too good so her recollections are often not accurate :( The Harris's you also mention could well be my family as I'm not entirely sure that John was a John.. I suspect he could be a Robert (my mum suggested John). Seems that there were quite a few Harris's and Edwards in the area with many called George, Anne and Robert which were/are all names in my family!!
Also Cambrian - the Ann you mention could be the one I'm looking for though I'm not sure that she lived at the chapel with her parents ... she may have bought it when she got married :/ I think there were five converted chapels in Penrhynside so I need to find out the names etc. Need to peck a few heads and hone my research skills before I make more headway methinks. Would be interested to read the books mentioned - are there any copies for sale in Waterstones?
I'm also wondering if there's any connection with the person who originally started the thread (Tanya) which is the reason I've posted here really.
Okay thanks for your time guys..every little helps :)
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Hmmm...also the John/Robert Harris could have been Robert John Harris with his middle name being used as his first name ie John??? There was a Robert John Harris if I remember from my research- must take another look.
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Sam, the good thing about the Census records are that you can turn the pages over and see who else lives nearby. I didn't make any notes when I had a look at the records so I can't remember the names of the others.
One thing I can remember though is the name Fanny Edwards and she will be easier to trace because she hasn't got such a common name.
One other thing I remember from the Census records and also from the Street Indexes in the Conwy Archives is that an Edwards lived in Woodbine Terrace Penrhynside. Now, I've just been reading Chris Drapers Book of walks in the Llandudno area and this is a paragraph from his book " 1 Woodbine Terrace was the home of the Congregational Minister of Ebenezer Chapel" I wonder if this address had anything to do with your Edwards side of the family.
Nearby is the Saron Calvinistic Methodist Chapel and in the village they also had the Calfaria Baptist Chapel, Moriah Wesleyan Chapel and the Church of St Sannan so no wonder Penrhynside had the title of "The Holy City"
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I have just been given some information about the chapel and it was indeed the house in the photo called Bryn Hyfryd though I don't know what the name was when it was a chapel. The names of my Great Grandparents were indeed John and Anne Harris who lived at Bryn Hyfryd until they died I think (around 1948 and 1956) but I don't know where they lived before they moved there.
Also some more info on the Edwards family taken from a photocopied page that my mum was given by Chris Draper the historian - unfortunately I don't know the name of the book.
A John Edwards was leased land in Pant Uchaf by Mostyn Estates in 1859. John Edwards - a stonemason - was the son of Henry and Catherine Edwards and was born in 1833 at old Pen Y Ffordd farm cottage which was occupied by his parents from 1829 to 1834. The 1861 census shows that John Edwards and his wife (also a Catherine b.Llangwstenin 1832) lived at Pant Uchaf with their three children (another) John b.Llangwstenin 1853, (another) Catherine b.1855 and (another!) Henry b.1861.
As the two youngest children were born in Llandudno it could be assumed that the family moved to Pant Y Wennol between 1853 and 1855. There is a possibility that John Edwards and a Thomas Hughes from Mount Pleasant (who also leased the land from Mostyn Estates) may have between them built Pant Uchaf Cottage. By 1868 John Edwards had left Pant Uchaf and the cottage was occupied by Thomas Hughes younger brother Hugh, his wife Margaret and their three children.
In 1948 the tenancy of the cottage was taken over by Ann Hindley (nee Harris - my Great Aunt) and her husband Norman who later moved to No.2 cottage Lower Pant Y Wennol. The tenancy of the cottage then passed to Thomas George Harris and his wife Laura (my grandparents) and their daughter (my mum) until 1960.
So there is a possibility that as my family definitely did occupy the cottage from 1948 until 1960 and also Bryn Hyfryd, the John Edwards family may have been the Edwards I'm looking for. Annie could be the daughter of John or Henry (Jnrs). I'm finding it quite exhausting trawling through the internet and don't think I've quite got the hang of looking through the census records. I'm sure the nice people at the library will put me in the right direction.
If anyone has any idea how I can get copies of Kenneth Dibbles books about Penrhynside and the area(there are three I think) I would be most grateful. I have heard he lives in the area and may be able to sell me copies. One is called 'Penrhynside'. There does seem to be an address for him on this page:
http://lat.bookmaps.org/p/e/pen_16.html (http://lat.bookmaps.org/p/e/pen_16.html)
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Sam, I made a mistake regarding the 1911 Census as Edward John Edwards was the brother of Annie and not the father. I went to the Library again and got the following transcripts from the 1891 and 1911 Census. I'm not certain if they are you relations so you'll have to do some checking.
I couldn't find any trace of Fanny Edwards in the records and that surprised me as I expected that it would have helped a lot. Was Fanny adopted or did she have another Surname?
Anyway just for your information Pant Uchaf ( Highest Hollow) is slightly higher up the lane than Pant Y Wennol (Hollow of the Swallow) and the first building is a recent photo of it.
Mount Pleasant is along a path above Pant Y Wennol and is just a ruin now (see photo) This was the Family home of Frederick and Emma Hughes and their two daughters Ruth and Megan until 1954.
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Ah thanks Hugo. Fanny may have been a Harris I guess - she wasn't adopted or at least she was still part of my family but was known as Aunt Fanny to her siblings due to her illegitimacy. She had a daughter Poppy who married into the Gregory family. I could assume that George and Ann Edwards might be Annies parents as they lived at the Old Chapel (Bryn Hyfryd) which is where my Annie lived.
Hugo/Sam
In Ken Dibble's book on Pant y Wennol, there is reference to an Ann Edwards, daughter of George and Ann Edwards who were living at the Old Chapel. She was 10 years old in 1891 (he quotes the census). I wonder if this is the Ann you are looking for.
Yes the photo shows the huge extension built onto the original Pant Uchaf cottage on the right which is obscured by the grass slope (you can just see the chimney). After my nain and taid left in 1960 the cottage was empty for a year and was then taken over by Eric John and Doris Waite as a holiday home. Shortly after they were able to purchase the freehold of the land from Mostyn Estates.
The Frederick and Emma Hughes were more than likely descendants of the afore mentioned Thomas Hughes. Shame about the Mount Pleasant cottage being a ruin now :(
From the afore mentioned photocopied page:
By 1868 John Edwards had left Pant Uchaf and the cottage was occupied by Thomas Hughes younger brother Hugh. who had been living with him at Mount Pleasant after leaving employment at Fferm Farm Llanrhos. With him was his wife Margaret (b.Penmachno 1838) and their children Hugh (b.1863), Mary Jane (b.1870), and they also had another daughter Elizabeth Ann (b.1876).
The 1881 and 1891 census shows Hugh and Margaret Hughes at Pant Uchaf with their three children . Hugh died on 30th April 1898 aged 62 and his widow on 13th April 1906 aged 69 - both were buried at Llanrhos. The cottage then passed on to their son (another) Hugh and his wife Ellen. Hugh moved from Pant Uchaf in 1945 to live in Llandudno when the cottage was occupied by Peter and Laura Jane Scott and their children Robert and Mary. In 1948 the cottage was then occupied by Ann Hindley (nee Harris).
Great information for anyone researching the Hughes family of Pant Y Wennol area :)
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Hello Jom
Yes, he did have a son, Samuel born in 1871. The Robert Edwards I have, married Jane Williams on 1 May 1863. I have a copy of the parish record. Her father was John Williams, master mariner. In the 1861 census, his wife was Sarah. Jane was born around 1840. The witnesses were Llewelyn Parry & Mary Hughes. I've also got a copy of the parish marriage record between your Samuel & Eleanor Louisa Williams....I can send you a copy of both records, if you haven't got them? My line is through Elizabeth, Robert's eldest sister. She went to Liverpool and married Joseph Davies. I would love to get in touch with your someone on the direct line of the family! Looking through the national probate index, I saw that Robert left a will in Nov. 1906 with the effects of £539, executor was his son Samuel. Will be interesting to get the will, one day!
Hi Tanya, Have just seen your reply to my posting. Somehow I have not been getting notifications to say there's been a reply. Must sort the settings. Sorry. Anyway, if you send me your email address I will pass yours onto my Edwards family contact. My link to them is that Samuel's wife Eleanor WILLIAMS is my 2 G Aunt who was born abt 1869 probably at "The Old Telegraph" on the Orme, to John and Martha (Elliott) WILLIAMS (my 2 G Grandparents). Thank you for your kind offer re Samuel and Eleanor's marriage cert. i do however have a copy. Any info you dig up though would be much appreciated and will very gladly send anything I may have of interest. Again sorry for the delay
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Ah thanks Hugo. Fanny may have been a Harris I guess - she wasn't adopted or at least she was still part of my family but was known as Aunt Fanny to her siblings due to her illegitimacy. She had a daughter Poppy who married into the Gregory family. I could assume that George and Ann Edwards might be Annies parents as they lived at the Old Chapel (Bryn Hyfryd) which is where my Annie lived.
I've re read your notes Sam and if I'm correct there was a Poppy Gregory who lived in Craig Y Don Llandudno. She was a very good friend of my mother Nancy, Poppy had a son called John who was a good friend of my brother Bryn.
In fact I took John and Bryn to watch their first football match at Old Trafford when Utd were playing at home.
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Yes it must be the same Poppy! There's always a connection with fellow Llandudno folk isn't there ;D
I don't know if she lived in Craig Y Don but she did have a son John and also a daughter Jane who sadly passed away. As far as I know John works/lives in Landudno but I don't think I've ever met him:/ I did meet Jane on occasion at the odd family gathering and remember her to be lovely - smiley and pretty. I didn't know Poppy though as I think she died before I was born - I think she would have been born circa 1920. She was my mum's (much older) first cousin. Incidentally my first cousin recently named her daughter (Poppy :roll:0 after her :)
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Don't know how to remove this post but have removed the text and modified it to explain why I posted the same reply twice (my PC is being awkward (AGAIN! :rage:) ......and now it's decided not to show up at all.......yeah that makes sense ??? Basically ignore this post!! Or even better mods could you remove it for me?
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Also Tanya , Jom I apologise for hi-jacking your thread. The only reason I posted here was that I thought we may have had Edwards connections ... maybe we do! :roll:
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No problem. Can't see a connection as yet sam. but will keep looking ££$
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$thanx$
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Hello everyone,
I have just discovered this site in my quest to discover more about my ancestors, a couple of whom have been mentioned in this thread.
Richard Thomas Williams (b 1871) was my great grandfather. I am currently trying (and failing) to discover more about the life of his father (John Williams, b 1821) particularly prior to the 1865 marriage to his second wife, Martha Elliott.
I would love to hear from any of you who also have these people on your family trees.
$thanx$
Tracey :)
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hi Tracey,
Have sent a personal reply to your message. Think you must be the same Tracey with whom I've been in touch. In which case, hi 3rd cuz!!
Look forward to your reply but sounds as though we're still at the same darned brick wall! Look at the picture of Telegraph House. Might even be john Williams in it!! :)
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I have read your post with interest. Grace Edwards was my Great Great Grandmother. Thomas Rawling's father was Jonathan Rawling 1783 - 1836 who came from Cornwall as Mine Agent for the Old Mine on the Great Orme and is buried in St Tudno's Church. Was he John Edwards boss? I am interested in any information on Jonathan Rawling such as when he came to Llandudno and where he was from in Cornwall.
His wife Jane Rawling 1791 - 1870 left £308.00 to a John Hughes Estate Agent and John Roberts (Car Proprietor) but I am not sure who these people are and what the connection is.
Thanks for any help you can provide. Glenys
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Sorry but I've posted on the wrong one. $booboo$ :-[