Three Towns Forum

The Local => Local News & Discussion => Topic started by: barry b on September 24, 2016, 03:08:38 pm

Title: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: barry b on September 24, 2016, 03:08:38 pm
a while ago i heard that american ( and other countries) cruise ships might visit llandudno since the end of the pier was repaired-- anybody heard if that will still happen?
Title: Re: american cruise ships
Post by: SteveH on September 24, 2016, 04:07:00 pm
Check out the  "Tourist news: developments, initiatives and strategies" thread from last year, I have copied a couple below, there might be more.......
Re: Tourist news: developments, initiatives and strategies
« Reply #232 on: June 16, 2015, 06:14:41 PM »
Quote
CRUISE SHIPS.....
Last August we had a discussion about the viability of american cruise ships coming to Llandudno, and the fact that Holyhead had 16 plus liners due to dock in 2015 and the increase in North Wales tourism this would bring.
The latest news does not bode well....... :(

Giant cruise ship cancels Holyhead visit over jetty concerns
A giant cruise ship due to arrive in Holyhead tomorrow with 2,500 passengers will now not dock over concerns about its size and the predicted weather conditions.
The Celebrity Silhouette was the largest vessel due at the Anglesey port this summer - one of more than 20 cruise ships coming to the island.
But now the trip has been cancelled due to concerns its 317metre length, combined with predictions for wet and windy weather, was a potential safety risk for the port jetty.
This will renew calls for investment in a specialised cruise ship dock at Holyhead which had previously been looked at by the Welsh Government, which asked consultants to draw up proposals.
A port spokesman added: “A specialised jetty is under discussion and maybe this will focus minds on this.
“This existing jetty has restrictions.”
Anglesey Walking tweeted: “Disappointed that the cruise ship’s visit to Holyhead on Wednesday is cancelled. 2,800 passengers on board.
“What a blow to local businesses."

A Celebrity Cruises spokeswoman said: "Celebrity Silhouette was scheduled to call to Holyhead, Wales, on Wednesday 17 June.
"Two days before, the Captain was advised by the Harbour Master that Celebrity Silhouette would be unable to call to Holyhead.  We were very disappointed to receive this late information from the port, and tried to have them reverse this decision, to no avail.
"Regrettably, it was necessary to cancel Celebrity Silhouette's port call to Holyhead.
"Celebrity Silhouette will now spend Wednesday at sea, and arrive to Paris (Le Havre), France, on Thursday 18 June, at 8am and stay overnight till 9pm Friday 19 June.   
"We apologise for this modification to our guests’ itinerary, and thank them for their understanding and cooperation. We hope our guests enjoy the additional time to explore Paris and Normandy."

The same ship is also due to return to the port in August and the port said this visit was still due to go ahead.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/giant-cruise-ship-cancels-holyhead-9465813 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/giant-cruise-ship-cancels-holyhead-9465813)
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Re: Tourist news: developments, initiatives and strategies
« Reply #233 on: July 01, 2015, 05:15:28 PM »
Quote
AM calls for giant cruise ship dock to be developed at Holyhead port
There are calls for the Welsh Government to help develop a purpose built cruise ship dock on Anglesey amid concerns that the region could be missing out on valuable tourism cash.

It comes weeks after a vessel carrying 2,500 passengers failed to dock at the former Anglesey Aluminium jetty because it isn’t suitable for use in high winds.
The “Celebrity Silhouette” was the largest vessel due at the Anglesey port this summer - one of more than 20 cruise ships coming to the island.

Anglesey AM Rhun ap Iorwerth expressed his disappointment that the island, and North Wales as a whole, missed out on thousands of pounds which would have been pumped into the local economy and has now called on the Welsh Government to intervene.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/holyhead-cruise-ship-dock-anglesey-9566074 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/holyhead-cruise-ship-dock-anglesey-9566074)

The new SeaWalk used last Saturday for the first time in Norway could be the answer?
http://www.cruisecritic.com/blog/index.php/2012/08/14/the-incredible-floating-cruise-dock-photos/ (http://www.cruisecritic.com/blog/index.php/2012/08/14/the-incredible-floating-cruise-dock-photos/)
Title: Re: american cruise ships
Post by: barry b on September 27, 2016, 03:20:28 am
thanks steve-thats helpfull
Title: Re: american cruise ships
Post by: Bri Roberts on September 27, 2016, 09:05:21 am
I wonder if that seawalk would work off Llandudno Pier.

I have just watched the videos and I think it would.

Llandudno is a more central destination in north Wales for cruise ships.


Title: Re: american cruise ships
Post by: barry b on September 27, 2016, 06:15:05 pm
id love to see cruise ships at llandudno pier bri-- although in the summer months would it make the place too busy?- iguess we cant have it both ways-i often go over to westshore where its quieter either walking the dog or out on the kayak
Title: Re: american cruise ships
Post by: Bri Roberts on September 28, 2016, 09:02:02 am
CCBC could always begin charging a passenger levy like they are planning to do in Barcelona.
Title: Re: american cruise ships
Post by: DaveR on September 28, 2016, 09:55:34 am
CCBC could always begin charging a passenger levy like they are planning to do in Barcelona.
I've noticed on my travels that many resort towns in Europe now charge a visitor levy per night stayed in a hotel. Imagine the funds that could be raised for local improvements if a hotel room levy of just a £1 a night was made in Llandudno?
Title: Re: american cruise ships
Post by: Bellringer on September 28, 2016, 11:18:20 am
Just back from a week in Brittany staying in an appartment.  One euro per person per day tourist levy. We were charged this also last year.
Title: Re: american cruise ships
Post by: SteveH on September 28, 2016, 11:50:32 am
On the face of it, a levy seems a great idea, but reading up on it, the hotel associations do not agree, they say they increased cost will affect them, they also point out that other countries have a reduced VAT rate to offset this levy and help increase tourism.

" Recent analysis by the BHA shows that, of fourteen European countries, which apply some form of tourist tax, all but one levy reduced rates of VAT on hotel services. In fact, the UK is one of only three EU countries that do not have a reduced rate of VAT for tourism services."
http://www.assc.co.uk/news/tourist-tax-visitor-levy-bed-tax/ (http://www.assc.co.uk/news/tourist-tax-visitor-levy-bed-tax/)

Is a levy a national tax or local?.....as DaveR said " Imagine the funds that could be raised for local improvements if a hotel room levy of just a £1 a night was made in Llandudno?"  and I don't think visitors would complain at a £1 p.n. ?
Title: Re: american cruise ships
Post by: PhilMick on September 28, 2016, 11:51:33 am
Perhaps it's time to resurrect the St George's Harbour Scheme:

http://threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=963.0 (http://threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=963.0)

I'm sure if the harbour wall was high enough it would block out the view of the wind farm.

 ;)

Title: Re: american cruise ships
Post by: Dwyforite on September 28, 2016, 02:58:56 pm
regarding a wall across the bay I know were you can find a large amount of stone for the infil and it  could be built in the same way as the Conwy tunnel sections and floated into place and then piled to the seabed. these are the sort of things that you could have made a deal with the owners of the wind farms for
Title: Re: american cruise ships
Post by: PhilMick on September 28, 2016, 03:34:40 pm
Could also use all that inconvenient sand from the West Shore!
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: suepp on September 29, 2016, 08:56:49 pm
Back in the 1970's an American Cruise ship would anchor in the bay every summer
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: PhilMick on September 29, 2016, 10:17:05 pm
Also, there were regular visits from Royal Navy ships - they sent rugby teams ashore to play Llandudno RFC.
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: SteveH on September 30, 2016, 10:55:00 am
Back in the 1970's an American Cruise ship would anchor in the bay every summer

I think the problem today, is the size of the ships, they average 3,000 passengers per ship, that's got to be a logistic nightmare, time consuming and expensive ferrying ship to shore, and the weather is the biggest issue with offshore anchoring.
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: Ian on September 30, 2016, 11:11:32 am
I suspect the draught is a major consideration. The water off Llandudno on both shores and the Orme is shallow in terms of the draught of some of these super liners. Holyhead has very deep water close to the shore, but not Llandudno.
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: Dave on September 30, 2016, 11:46:50 am
The draught blowing in from West Shore through town would push them back out to sea. ;) The water's not deep enough close in either.
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: Ian on September 30, 2016, 01:07:12 pm
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: Bri Roberts on September 30, 2016, 05:32:54 pm
How deep is the sea off Llandudno's north shore?

Does anybody have any idea?
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: SteveH on September 30, 2016, 05:48:14 pm
Not much help, only tell's depth at end of the pier.  extract from navigational chart.

"The bottom is mostly shingle with poor holding ground. A pier extends 0.2 mile NE from the shore at the W side of the bay. There is a depth of 2.7m alongside the head of the pier, but it was reported not in use. A jetty extends from the shore close S of the pier."
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: Ian on September 30, 2016, 07:09:21 pm
It's no deeper than 90 feet max at high tide until more than 12km from shore.
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: Bri Roberts on September 30, 2016, 07:16:10 pm
Would you believe the draught of allegedly the largest cruise ship in the World, namely Harmony of the Seas, is 9.32m?
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: PhilMick on September 30, 2016, 07:28:31 pm
I couldn't see how the depths were calculated, for example, allowing for tidal range. From memory I think there is an 8 metre low to high tide range.

One of the logistical challenges I've noticed with cruise ships, are the sheer number of passengers going on organised trips. If 1500-2000 passengers go on trips just think of how many taxis, minibuses and coaches this needs. Where would they park and wait in Llandudno?

I can't think of anywhere in North Wales, apart from Holyhead, that could cope with this problem.
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: Cambrian on September 30, 2016, 07:52:04 pm
A possibility is to use a tender from the cruise ships to the pier.  This was performed by the St Trillo in the days when the Kungsholm and others used to call.  Fleets of Royal Red and Creams coaches used to convey the passengers to Bodnant Gardens and Conwy Castle.

I have seen a smaller cruise ship use its own launch to take passengers to a landing stage where depth meant the ship itself could not get alongside due to depth of water.
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: Fester on October 01, 2016, 02:21:05 pm
I'm just imagining 2000 American tourists disembarked at the pier head, and wondering how they are to be transported to the town. After all, they not going to physically walk are they?
Nor will they walk up the Orme or to West Shore.
So, after they have sampled the delights of Poundland and Wetherspoons, they can take endless pictures of the Monkey Man, and contemplate about how to get back to the pier.
This is a scenario that doesn't bear thinking about, it's never going to happen.
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: Bri Roberts on October 01, 2016, 04:53:07 pm
Fester, if all the passengers are that decrepit then they can visit your kiosk and will have no need to travel any further.
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: PhilMick on October 01, 2016, 07:02:55 pm
Could they not start a continental type river cruise up the Conwy - the sailing ships of old got to Tal y Cafn.
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: spotty dog on October 01, 2016, 07:12:01 pm
the depth at the end of Llandudno pier is 2.6 mts at LAT
whilst Holyhead has 7.6 mts at ro ro pier
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: Bri Roberts on October 01, 2016, 07:30:08 pm
How far out is 10 metres?
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: spotty dog on October 01, 2016, 08:36:26 pm
att link

http://www.visitmyharbour.com/harbours/wales-nw-england/conwy-deganwy-marinas/chart/1485F86A2B361/chart-of-conwy-and-deganwy-inc-appro (http://www.visitmyharbour.com/harbours/wales-nw-england/conwy-deganwy-marinas/chart/1485F86A2B361/chart-of-conwy-and-deganwy-inc-appro)
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: Bri Roberts on October 02, 2016, 06:49:04 am
Thank you but I am unable to view the details.
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: spotty dog on October 02, 2016, 02:22:46 pm
sorry you could not read it I tried to post a screen grab but it was in wrong format, but to answer your question the light blue contour line is the 10 mtr line about 1/2 mile off from end of pier
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: Bri Roberts on October 02, 2016, 04:06:22 pm
Thank you, spotty dog. Much appreciated.
Title: Re: International cruise ships and LLandudno
Post by: barry b on October 16, 2016, 11:14:02 am
;D ;D ;D
i was warned about the draught from westshore coming across to northshore when ive been kayaking