Three Towns Forum

The Local => Genealogy & Research => Topic started by: emma silk on February 15, 2018, 12:11:13 am

Title: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: emma silk on February 15, 2018, 12:11:13 am
Please can anybody help. I'm trying to find information on John Roberts from Conwy. He was born about 1860 and died 17th May, 1900 at Plas Isa Place, Conwy. He was married in Llandudno 30th December, 1884 to Elizabeth Jane Owen from Llandudno and his father was John Roberts. I have his marriage certificate and his death certificate but i am struggling with his birth certificate. On his death cert he had a brother called Evan Roberts. I am also struggling to find his birth certificate. I believe he had a brother called Alfred. Alfred is easy to follow. Alfred's father was John Roberts and he had a brother called Trevor and sister called Mary. He also had two stepbrothers from his mother's first marriage to John Evans. the two boys were John Evans and Evan Ellis? who both then became Roberts. Alfred's mother then died and he was living in High Street with his father and siblings, also Eleanor, Sarah, Thomas and John Owen. I have found Sarah and Thomas Owen baptisms with no fathers but cannot find John. I then find Alfred in 1871 census living in Lowergate street with his father John and wife Ellen Roberts and their children Mary, Alfred, Thomas, John, Evan and Ann Roberts. I cannot find a marriage which they may not be and Eleanor Owen could have become Ellen Roberts, both names run through the family but I cannot find births for John, Evan or Ann. If I send away for certificate I get John Roberts from next door whose age and parents are the same. I'm trying to verify his mother so I can follow her line and also that his father and grandfather are correct. All the addresses are family ones. I think I'm correct so far but don't know how to go further. I have traced a few in Conwy and keep getting stuck. Can anybody help or guide me where to look next?
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Helig on February 16, 2018, 10:40:18 am
Hello Emma,

There is a Family Tree on Ancestry for this line. It shows the parents of John Roberts b 1859 Conwy, to be John Roberts b1826, Conwy, and Ellen bc 1831, Conwy.

On the 1871 census, John Roberts, senior, is shown as a Fisherman. They are living in Lower Gate Street, Conwy. They show the family in later census returns, do you have these?

There is no mention of his baptism, or birth registration on this tree. Where have you looked for this please?

Helig.
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Hugo on February 16, 2018, 12:01:34 pm
I'm not surprised that you are having difficulty finding the correct Birth Certificate for your John Roberts as there were  8 entries recorded in the Conwy Registration District in 1860 alone.
The Conway Registration District covered towns like Conwy,  Llandudno and several other places so it's hard to tell which entry is correct as the records I've seen don't show the name of the place.

In addition records and certificates are not always correct so you have to be careful before you order any expensive certificates.    For example that Wedding Certificate for John,  does it show his age as 24?       The reason I ask that, is because going by the date of marriage on the 30th December 1884 he would have been born in 1860 unless of course his birthday was the 31st December 1859

The Conwy Archives in Llandudno may be able to help but that's only good if you live in the local area and can inspect the records yourself.
The Baptism records may help and although they may not be online there will be the Church records to have a look at.   At least that will help to eliminate some of the John Roberts that appear on the list.

The Registry Office forr Births, Marriages and Deaths is also in the same street as the Archives and a certificate could be obtained from there once you find the correct John Roberts.      However there is a very nice and helpful person who works in the Registry Office who helped another forum member to obtain a certificate and he was in a similar position to yourself.

Are you able to call at the Archives yourself because if not I'm hoping to go there next week sometime and will look it up for you?    I'll tell you more about the Registry Office once we have eliminated some of the John Roberts'

Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: emma silk on February 17, 2018, 11:51:50 pm
Hi
     I also have my tree on ancestry. I do share with a couple of people but have found some have the wrong John Roberts. I have a birth certificate for one John Roberts who was born in the house which later became the family home in Berry Street but I now think this is the wrong one. His father was also John Roberts, stone mason and his mother Ellen but I think they lived next door to the one I am researching although he may be related.
     I have been trying to research him for many years then leave him for a while and come back to him. He was married to Elizabeth Owen, in the congregational? church, Llandudno, on 30th December, 1884, age 24. His father was John Roberts, and they are both sawyers, and lived in Yr Odyn which I know is correct. He died 17th May, 1900, age 41, at 9 Plas Isa Place which is also correct, and he was a fisherman. His brother Evan was at his death living in Yr Odyn.
     If I'm correct I have the 61, 71, 81 and 91 census thank you. I have tried looking through all the baptisms from 1858 to 1863 but unless I missed him I couldn't find him. I've tried the usual sites like, find my past, genes reunited, etc., also the grave but that doesn't help. I am from Conwy but have very little spare time. Unfortunately mum is ill at present and I can't leave her for long. She is 90 in two weeks which is why I am back trying to research John who is her grandfather. Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: emma silk on February 18, 2018, 12:28:38 am
Sorry, I forgot to say although it says age 41 on his death certificate it says aged 39 on his grave.
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: DownUnder on February 18, 2018, 10:54:32 am
Hi
     I also have my tree on ancestry. I do share with a couple of people but have found some have the wrong John Roberts. I have a birth certificate for one John Roberts who was born in the house which later became the family home in Berry Street but I now think this is the wrong one. His father was also John Roberts, stone mason and his mother Ellen but I think they lived next door to the one I am researching although he may be related.
     I have been trying to research him for many years then leave him for a while and come back to him. He was married to Elizabeth Owen, in the congregational? church, Llandudno, on 30th December, 1884, age 24. His father was John Roberts, and they are both sawyers, and lived in Yr Odyn which I know is correct. He died 17th May, 1900, age 41, at 9 Plas Isa Place which is also correct, and he was a fisherman. His brother Evan was at his death living in Yr Odyn.
     If I'm correct I have the 61, 71, 81 and 91 census thank you. I have tried looking through all the baptisms from 1858 to 1863 but unless I missed him I couldn't find him. I've tried the usual sites like, find my past, genes reunited, etc., also the grave but that doesn't help. I am from Conwy but have very little spare time. Unfortunately mum is ill at present and I can't leave her for long. She is 90 in two weeks which is why I am back trying to research John who is her grandfather. Thanks for your help.

Emma,

I looked at the 1861 Census and found a John Roberts married to an Ellen Roberts living at Berry Street, Conway along with their daughter Ellen aged 5 and their son John aged 2. You mentioned that you thought that this John was not the correct one and that it was the one living next door.  I have scrolled through the census images either side of the Berry Street record above (ie. other families living in Berry St), but could not find any other John Roberts. 

If we assume that the Berry Street record is the correct one then there is a baptismal record as follows:

URL of this page: https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=R_732714316
Wales Births and Baptisms 1541-1907 Transcription
First name(s) John
Last name Roberts
Gender Male
Birth year 1859
Baptism year 1859
Baptism date 12 Jun 1859
Baptism place CONWAY,CAERNARVON,WALES
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name Roberts
Mother's first name(s) Ellen
Place Conway County Caernarvonshire
Country Wales Record set Wales Births & Baptisms 1541-1907 Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records Subcategory Parish Baptisms Collections from Wales, Great Britain

AND

Free Reg:
County Caernarfonshire
Place (link for place information) Conwy
Church name St Mary and All Saints
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number Baptism date 12 Jun 1859
Birth date
Person forename John
Person sex M
Person abode
 Father forename John
Father surname ROBERTS
Father occupation
Mother forename Ellen
Mother surname
Register note
Transcriber notes

Hope this is of some value in your search.

Regards, Downunder
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Hugo on February 18, 2018, 11:15:56 am
Sorry, I forgot to say although it says age 41 on his death certificate it says aged 39 on his grave.

Emma,  what age does it say for John on his marriage certificate?
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Hugo on February 18, 2018, 11:23:37 am
Down Under,    Emma mentioned a brother of John's called Evan.       Is there an Evan in the Census records for 1871 or perhaps 1881 because if there is then the John Roberts you have found must be the correct one.

The variation between the age on John's death certificate and his grave is confusing but it does happen
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Meleri on February 18, 2018, 03:13:05 pm
I have this family on my tree and John's brother Evan was born 1862 Conway. He married Margaret Hughes in 1891 Conway. They lived at 12 Plas Isa Place and he was a Fisherman. On the 1871 Census John (Father) occupation was a Fisherman and his son John was at school they lived in Lower Gate Street. 1881 Census John (Father) was a Fisherman his son John a Sawyer they lived at Yr Odyn. 1891 Census John (Junior) was married and living at 10 Plas Isa Place. My father's cousin Alice married John Melville Roberts and they lived in Berry Street, is this the family you are researching?
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Hugo on February 18, 2018, 03:50:48 pm
Meleri,  in Emma's initial posting she also mentions a brother called Alfred, is he mentioned in any of the Census records you have seen?
If so then it must be the family that Emma is searching for
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: emma silk on February 18, 2018, 11:33:28 pm
Thanks everybody. Sorry downunder while the John you found was living in Berry Street in 1861 I think the one I'm looking for was living in High Street around the corner but his name on the census is John Owen. Later on when you go through the census he is John Roberts. The one you found is the one I have a birth cert for and as he was born in Conway Castle Inn,which I believe is no.3 Berry, I thought I had the correct one as the widow of the one I'm looking for later came to live at no 3 but not until after 1911 and it stayed in the family for many years. When I look for Evan and Alfred Roberts I come up with the one in the High Street. I have them on all the census and their marriages but cannot find John or Evan's births. He is 24 on his marriage cert. Hugo. Yes it is the same tree Meleri. John Melville's father and my grandfather William Owen Roberts are brothers. As far as I know their grandfather is buried in St.Mary's with other members of the family and it is their graves I am trying to find. Thank you again
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Hugo on February 19, 2018, 09:29:15 am
Emma, have we been looking for the wrong person in the Census?     If he was born in 1860 then his name in the 1861 Census should be John Owen.     It's unlikely that his name would have been changed in the short period from his birth in 1860 to the Census in 1861  (usually carried out at the end of March 1861)

If that is the case then there is only one birth for a John Owen  registered in the Conwy Registration District in 1860.   That birth was registered in the quarter July to September 1860

The Census for 1861 does need to be checked for John Owen and not John Roberts as first thought

As regards finding the grave in St Mary's Church then this is relatively easy providing that the grave had a headstone.    The Conwy Archives has a Burial Index and what is good about them is that they are in alphabetical order and also in address order.    So if you are looking for a specific name then look it up alphabetically and it will then tell you where the grave is.

I appreciate your problem with looking after your mother but if you can be specific with any names then I'll gladly try to help whenever I next go to the Archives
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: DownUnder on February 19, 2018, 10:13:32 am
Thanks everybody. Sorry downunder while the John you found was living in Berry Street in 1861 I think the one I'm looking for was living in High Street around the corner but his name on the census is John Owen. Later on when you go through the census he is John Roberts. The one you found is the one I have a birth cert for and as he was born in Conway Castle Inn,which I believe is no.3 Berry, I thought I had the correct one as the widow of the one I'm looking for later came to live at no 3 but not until after 1911 and it stayed in the family for many years. When I look for Evan and Alfred Roberts I come up with the one in the High Street. I have them on all the census and their marriages but cannot find John or Evan's births. He is 24 on his marriage cert. Hugo. Yes it is the same tree Meleri. John Melville's father and my grandfather William Owen Roberts are brothers. As far as I know their grandfather is buried in St.Mary's with other members of the family and it is their graves I am trying to find. Thank you again

Hi Emma,

I found the 1861 Census record you referred to which shows the following:

First     Surname  Relnshp   Marit       Sex    Age YOB    Occ        Birth Place
Name                                  Status
John     Roberts     Head       Widower     Male     35  1826   Sawyer   Caernarvonshire, Wales
Trevor  Roberts      Son                          Male     12  1849   Scholar   Caernarvonshire, Wales
Mary    Roberts      Daught                     Female   9   1852   Scholar   Caernarvonshire, Wales
Alfred   Roberts      Son                          Male      7   1854   Scholar   Caernarvonshire, Wales

Eleanor Owen       Servant    Unmarried  Female 29   1832  Gen Serv Caernarvonshire, Wales
Sarah   Owen        Daught                     Female   9   1852  Scholar   Caernarvonshire, Wales
Thomas Owen       Son                          Male       3   1858                Caernarvonshire, Wales
John     Owen        Son                          Male       0   1861                Caernarvonshire, Wales
Evan     Evans       Lodger    Unmarried   Male     16   1845  Mariner   Caernarvonshire, Wales

This would indicate, in 1861, that John Owen was the son of Eleanor Owen who was unmarried at that point in time. The question is, did the label of "Unmarried" indicate that Eleanor was never married or that she was divorced. The fact that she was (in 1861) a Servant of John Roberts does not prove that John Roberts was the father of John Owen. What happened subsequently to any relationship between Eleanor Owen and John Roberts does not necessarily indicate that John Roberts was the father of John Owen.

Have you explored the births of Eleanor's other children ( Sarah and Thomas)?





Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Helig on February 19, 2018, 11:58:34 am
I think this one might take a bit of unravelling. There are some Family Trees on Ancestry which show Eleanor Owen as the wife of John Roberts. They aren't available to view without contacting the Tree owner first. One has their marriage in 1852 but I cannot find this on the usual sites.

Helig
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Hugo on February 19, 2018, 02:25:01 pm
Helig,  if the 1861 Census shows them as John Roberts and Eleanor Owen, then you would assume that any marriage must be after the 1861 Census date.

Later Census records 1871 etc  that show Eleanor's name as Eleanor Roberts give some clue as to when or if they got married
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Meleri on February 19, 2018, 04:00:12 pm
What a tangled web we weave.

Here is my shot at it and a recap of what you have found ;)

On the 1861 Census John Roberts born 1826 is a Widow living at the North Side of High Street Conwy with:-

Trevor Roberts born 1849 Son
Mary       "        "    1852 Daughter
Alfred      "        "    1854 Son
Eleanor Owen    "    1832 servant ( I think she could be a relative of his dead wife, possibly her sister). There are also Sarah, Thomas And John Owen who I think are Eleanor's children as her daughter Sarah and John's Daughter are both age 9.

When I looked for a Baptism for Trevor Roberts I found one in Conwy 14/4/1850, father John Roberts, Mother Anne, address Mount Pleasant, Conway. Also on the GRO it states his Mother's maiden name is Owens
Baptism for Alfred Roberts 16/4/1854 Conway same parents and address. GRO birth  Mother Owens

Marriage for John Roberts & Anne Evans (she was a widow) 14/12/1847 at the Parish Church Conwy. His father was John Roberts, Occupation Mason and her father John Owens, Occupation Mariner. The witnesses were David Roberts & Elin Owens.

1851 Census Mount Pleasant Conwy.

John Roberts born Conway 1825
Anne Roberts    "     "         1822 Wife
John Evans        "     "        1841 Stepson
Evan Ellis Evans "     "        1844   "
Trefor Roberts   "     "         1851 Son age 11 months (so he was born 1850)
Owen Owens      "     "        1822 Lodger ( possibly Anne's Brother)
Eleanor Owens    "     "       1828 Servant ( possibly Ann's Sister)

Anne must have died sometime between 1851 & 1861 as John is a widower on the 1861 Census

There are Monumental Inscription booklets in Conwy Library both for St Mary's graveyard and St Agnes Cemetery with quite a lot of information. I will carry on looking to see what I can find.
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: emma silk on February 19, 2018, 10:45:28 pm
Thank you. I never had any reason to think John wasn't a Roberts until I started to do my family tree. Yes the 1861 census is the one I think is correct as Alfred and Evan are together in later ones which does mean that John was Owen. Later it became Roberts. I am trying to find out who his father really was as we thought it was John Roberts who is on his marriage certificate but we don't know if that was because he lived with him. I found the baptisms for Sarah which was the 14th December 1851 and Thomas Owen 28th December, 1857 address Mount Pleasant, Conwy with no father. John and his first wife I think were living in Mount Pleasant in 1851 and Eleanor Owen was living with them and their family as a servant. I did think Anne and Eleanor could be related but never found a link. What I couldn't understand is if Eleanor had the two children baptised without their father why would she not baptise John, Evan and Ann whether John Roberts is their father or not. This is why I keep leaving and coming back to it. I never could find a marriage between John and Eleanor. Thank you for the offer of going to the archives. I do have a record of graves somewhere but until I can establish who his father is I don't know who to look for.
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Paulakelsall on February 20, 2018, 01:02:53 pm
Hi Emma - some of the people you mention are part of my family tree. Hope this might explain some of the confusion!

Owen Owen (1817-1899), Ann Owen (1819-1855c) & Elinor Owen (1827-?). All born in Conway to parents John Owen (1788c-1841) and Mary Parry (1795c-?). Note the surname is sometimes changed to Owens in records, Ann's name is sometimes Anne and Elinor's name crops up as Elin/Ellin/Eleanor.

Ann Owen married John Evans (1814-1842) at St Mary's Church, Conway in 1840. They had two children John Evans (b1841-?) and Evan Evans (b1843-1903). Sadly Ann's husband John died in an accident in 1842 leaving Ann with the two small boys.

The widowed Ann marries John Roberts (b1825-?) in Conway in 1847. They have three children Trevor Roberts (1850-?), Mary Roberts (1851-?) and Alfred Roberts (b1854-?). Ann died c1855 in Conway and is buried in St Mary's Churchyard, Conway with her first husband John Evans - see photo. Therefore, I am sorry to say she cannot be your great grandfather John Roberts' (b1860) mother.

On first glance of the 1851 & 1861 Censuses the information can be confusing but....
1851 - Mount Pleasant, Conway
John Roberts born Conway Aged 26. Head. Married. Stone Mason
Anne Roberts    "     "         Aged 29. Married. Wife of John Roberts
John Evans        "     "        Aged 10. Stepson of John Roberts (son from Anne's first marriage)
Evan Ellis Evans "     "        Aged 7. Stepson of John Roberts (son from Anne's first marriage. nb Ellis is a family surname from previous generations)
Trefor Roberts   "     "        Aged 11 months. Son of John & Anne Roberts
Owen Owens      "     "       Aged.31.Unmarried. Lodger (Anne's Brother/John Roberts' brother-in-Law). Mariner.
Eleanor Owen    "     "        Aged 23. Unmarried. Servant (Anne's Sister/John Roberts' sister-in-law). House Servant.

1861 Census - High Street (North Side) Conway
John Roberts born Conway Aged 35. Head. Widowed. Sawyer.
Trevor Roberts "        "       Aged 12. Son of John Roberts & Ann Roberts deceased.
Mary Roberts    "        "      Aged 9. Daughter of John Roberts & Ann Roberts deceased.
Alfred Roberts   "        "     Aged 7. Son  of John Roberts & Ann Roberts deceased.
Eleanor Owen    "        "     Aged 29. Servant. Unmarried. (Sister-in-law of John Roberts/Sister of Ann Roberts' deceased)
Sarah Owen      "        "     Aged 9. Daughter of Eleanor Owen/Father unknown.
Thomas Owen   "        "     Aged 3. Son of Eleaner Owen/Father unknown.
John Owen        "        "     Aged 7 months. Son of Eleanor Owen/Father unknown. (Who you believe is your great grandfather)
Evan Evans       "        "     Aged 16. Lodger. Unmarried. Mariner. (Stepson of John Roberts/son of Ann Roberts' deceased).

I did find an Eleanor Owens marrying a Thomas Roberts in Conway in 1857 but this does not account for why Eleanor is listed on the 1861 Census as Owen and unmarried. As Eleanor is not in my direct line of ancestors I am afraid I have not researched this further. It might be worth looking for Eleanor (and/or John Owen/Roberts) in subsequent Censuses. I did find another marriage for Elinor Owens in 1867 to an Owen Jones in Conway. Again I have not looked into this.

On a side note, which might be of interest to your mother, Owen Owen b1817 married and had a fairly large family. I am in contact with his descendants who are still local to the area. Ann Owen b1819 sons John Evans b1841 & Evans Evans b1843 did not change their names to Roberts. John Evans married had a large family and I have been in contact with his descendants. Evan Evans is my great great grandfather and again had a large family in Conway. He became the Harbour Master in Conway an is buried in St Agnes Road Cemetery.

Hope this is of some use!


Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Meleri on February 20, 2018, 03:53:15 pm
On the 1861 Census John Owen's age is seven & a half months and the Census was taken Sunday 7th April, if my maths are right then he was born the last week in August 1860. There are two births Registered at Conway near to that time, John Owen registered 1860 3 Quarter July-August-September, but that one states Mother's maiden name Jones. The second one is John Owens registered 1860 4Q October-November-December but no Mother's name, that one could be the one you are looking for it's Volume 11b Page 473. I have bought quite a few Certificated from The Register Office in Llandudno and they are very good for checking to see if it's the right one first if you go there in person. It's doubtful if there is going to be a father's name though, so you could ask them to have a look if it states Mother Ellen Owen, as on the Baptisms for Sarah & Thomas they were stated as illegitimate and Ellen a single woman. At least you now now who Ellen's parents are. I have had a look for John's Baptism but no luck I'm afraid.
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: emma silk on February 20, 2018, 10:07:29 pm
I know that headstone. I have read it and walked past it very many times. Thanks for the information I shall pass it on and I'm sure mum will have something to tell me about the harbour master. Thanks for helping me clarify the people on my tree. Lots of the information is the same as mine but I didn't have the dates as I didn't carry on researching in case I was incorrect. I don't think Eleanor married as in the later census she becomes the wife of the John Roberts and her children take on the Roberts name, but I've no still no idea if John was their father or not. Thanks for looking for the baptisms Meleri. I will have to try to go to the registry office and get the certificate and hopefully that may help. Do I need an appointment Meleri? This tree doesn't get any easier considering I live here and my mum has loads of information. I always thought that Roberts was a hard name to trace but Owen/s get everywhere. John Owen/Roberts married Elizabeth Owen, my great grandmother. I wonder if his mother was related to her family.
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Meleri on February 21, 2018, 02:05:22 pm
You don't need an appointment the clerk at the town hall in Lloyd Street will give you a form to fill in and it cost about £9.25, if you want the certificate sent to you postage is extra. I was lucky one time that the Registrar wasn't busy, so he invited me to look at the original Register of my parents wedding, but that was years ago. Perhaps it would be best to check before you go as I haven't bought a certificate recently, the telephone number is 01492576525. The other way to do it is to buy a PDF copy which is an image of the register not an actual Certificate they cost £6 and you have to apply on-line to The General Register Office (GRO) they usually get to you in 5 working days, these cover Births from 1837 to 1917 & Deaths from 1837 to 1957.
As far your Great Grandparents being possibly related that wasn't unusual for Conwy, I have quite a lot of second cousins marrying on my tree. I agree Roberts & Owen aren't the easiest surnames to research, but as I have found Smith & Jones in Conway are a nightmare   :(
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Hugo on February 21, 2018, 02:43:00 pm
There was a very pleasant and helpful lady working there called Glenys when I called  in recent years
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Bri Roberts on February 21, 2018, 03:32:16 pm
Yes, there was Hugo.

She once handed me all her record books and allowed me to browse through them in the other office.

I chose which certificates I wanted and went back to see her in the other room.

I haven’t seen Glenys since but I seem to remember somebody once informing me she wasn’t too well.

Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Hugo on February 21, 2018, 04:03:17 pm
I'm sorry to hear that Bri, I hope that she's better now.     
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Cambrian on February 21, 2018, 07:20:57 pm
Glenys is fine and still there. Always very helpful.
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Bri Roberts on February 21, 2018, 10:11:27 pm
Thank you for the good news, Cambrian.  D)
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Hugo on February 21, 2018, 10:34:22 pm
Thanks Cambrian,  I'm pleased to hear that.      $good$
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Hugo on February 22, 2018, 06:01:37 pm
I couldn't find a Baptism record for John Owen b 1860 but did find one for Thomas Owen who was the illegitimate  son of Ellen Owen.  No record was made as to the father of the child.
His Baptism was recorded at No 14 in the Register ans the date looks like 25th December 1857

The was no record in the Marriage Register of a marriage between John Roberts and Ellen Owen

 
Title: Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
Post by: Hugo on February 22, 2018, 06:22:55 pm
In the Register Ellen Owen was a single woman living at Mount Pleasant