Three Towns Forum

The Local => Times Past => Topic started by: Bronwen on July 29, 2020, 05:28:26 pm

Title: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Bronwen on July 29, 2020, 05:28:26 pm
I was stuck many years ago, trying to trace my family in North Wales, because they all have typical Welsh surnames, and I just got swamped with possibilities! Having another go recently, with a bit more experience, I think I have traced my granddad's family back through 4 generations of Davies's all in Llandudno :)

Idris Davies b.1909 - Ormonde Terrace - Radio Engineeer
(David) Edward Davies b.1874 - Hughes Cottages/Hughes Yard, Back Madoc Street - Plumber
David Davies b.1838 - Hughes Cottages/Hughes Yard, Back Madoc Street - Tailor
Henry Davies b.1801 - Lester Row, then 'Morfa', then 'Bryn y Pin', then 'Ormes Head' Cottage - Copper Miner

I would love to see, if anyone has any more information, or pictures about any of these places, or the places they worked. 
$thanx$
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on July 30, 2020, 07:22:30 am
Hi Bronwen, welcome to the forum and I hope that we can contribute to your family search

The Conwy Archives that has now moved to the town of Conwy has loads of information such as Baptism and burial records that may help but also some forum members may be able to assist too.

Llandudno before 1850 was a completely different town to the one we see today.     The houses were mainly built on the lower slopes of the Great Orme and had a population of just a few hundred people.    Below the old village of Llandudno was the flat common land where the modern town is today.
Part of that common land was called the Morfa and occupied the area between the modern day promenade and Mostyn Street.   Many  Squatters used to live there in buildings called Tai Unnos  (  One night houses )       A very old Welsh tradition was that if someone built a house in one day and at the end of the day they had smoke coming from the chimney then they would own that property and the surrounding land

It was your reference to Henry Davies and the Morfa that made me have a look in my book by Christopher Draper called " Llandudno before the hotels"        It is a fascinating book about Llandudno before 1850 and tells about the life and times of people living in the old village.   The paperback book at £9.95 is well worth getting for anyone interested in the history of Llandudno

In the book Chapter 13 is about Tai Unnos on the Morfa and at page 196 is a very interesting piece about Henry Davies.   According to the map I would guess that he lived somewhere near where the present Queen's Hotel is on the Promenade.     I've copied this extract from the book for you and the year is 1850
Name                        age                                    occupation                            Place of birth
Henry  Davies             49                                      miner                                   Llandudno
Mary       "                  48                                      wife                                      Llansanffraid     (  probably Glan Conwy)
Thomas    "                 21                                      miner                                    Llandudno
William     "                 20                                          "                                             "
Robert      "                 16                                          "                                              "
David        "                 13                                     tailor                                             "
John         "                  11                                    scholar                                           "

It goes on to say this about the family    " after living for a while at Lester Row,  Henry Davies moved down to the Morfa with his family in about 1842 but tragedy soon followed.   A baby boy, Hugh was born here, the following year , having been Baptisedat St George's Church on 1st December 1844, died just four days later.     The oldest boy Thomas began his working life as an agricultural labourer but soon decided to join his father and brothers in the copper mines"   

The main landowner in the area was Lord Mostyn and by an Encosure Act in Parliament he was legally allowed to steal the squatters houses and land and quickly did so, destroying the houses and selling the land off.
In the same book I read,   at page 273 Henry Davies had moved and was living at Bk Brynwythen and was still a miner

I hope that this info helps and is a start in your search at this forum
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on July 30, 2020, 10:25:31 am
Bronwen,   I've been looking on Roots Chat to see where Lester Row was and noticed that you are already have a copy of Christopher Draper's book and are aware of the info about Henry Davies
Some of the addresses are still there but Back Madoc Street which once was a hive of activity has changed beyond recognition but I think that there are some photos on the forum of how it once was.
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Bronwen on July 30, 2020, 02:56:43 pm
 Thank you so much - it is amazing to see a genuine ancestor in print. I was so surprised that my g g g grandfather built a Ty Unnos. My granddad used to tell me about this Welsh custom when we would come across little cottage foundations and fireplaces on our walks. I had always assumed this was an ancient, or medieval custom, I did not realise it was going on in the 19th century. Sounds like the landowners of the time like Lord Mostyn were not keen on it continuing much longer. I was even more surprised to find that my granddad’s own granddad, David Davies, would have helped to build one and lived in it. I wonder if my granddad knew, or whether it was never talked about?
I was then desperate to see what Henry Davies’ cottage would have looked like, which is how I came across this forum.
I am quite fascinated with Henry Davies, he seems to be a survivor, and I wonder if Ormes Head Cottage where he lived in his old age, was nice,
I notice that his 2 oldest sons don’t seem to have married, but stayed with their parents. I wonder if this was the lot of a copper miner? Perhaps there were a lot of young men working in the mines but not so many young ladies?
So many questions, and it would also be exciting to trace the family back another generation, but I don’t know how to do this without the useful census records
Thank you again for taking the time to help  :)
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on July 30, 2020, 03:40:49 pm
Bronwen,   like I have mentioned before the Conwy Archives hold a lot of information including Church records so it may be easy to go back to
further generations as it seems that there is a strong Llandudno connection to your family
In those early days most families had their children Baptised so Henry's Baptism should appear in the Llandudno Parish Register soon after he was born.
Prior to this year I used to go quite often to the Archives so I know which records to look for.      One of the easiest is the Burial Register which lists the persons name alphabetically and gives the location of the graves providing that the grave had a headstone
I don't think that the Archives are open at present but when it does I'll be going there to see what the new building is like and it would be no trouble to have a look for you.
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Bronwen on July 30, 2020, 03:57:54 pm
That is so kind, thank you

I sometimes see parish records come up in Find My Past, but I really don’t know how to find the right one :-\

Have you ever come across Ormes Head Cottage?

Many thanks  :)
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Cambrian on July 30, 2020, 07:44:40 pm
Just on the Archives issue.  I don't think they are fully open at present.
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on July 31, 2020, 09:47:10 am
Thanks for the update on the Archives Cambrian        $good$
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on July 31, 2020, 10:00:25 am
Just to point out something for you Bronwen.      If you look at Chris Draper's book at page 190 it gives you a map of where the Tai Unnos once stood.   Llandudno was divided into two Parishes,  Llandudno and Eglwysrhos and the Tai Unnos shown are in the Llandudno Parish
Henry Davies was No 11 on the map and was roughly where the Queen's Hotel is now.
I've taken photos from a book of two Tai Unnos, one looks like a painting C 1840 and I would imagine from local knowledge that it is on or near  the Ty Unnos of Henry Davies
The other is a pen sketch of a fisherman's cottage on what is now the Parade and is dated 1851

PS    In Chris Draper's book at pg 284 you can see that the population of Llandudno in 1801 was only 316, the year when Henry was born so it may be easy to trace the Davies family records in the Church Registers.   I've seen the records in the past and think that they go back to the late 1600's so I'll have a look as soon as I can

I don't know where Lester Row was, apart from it being somewhere on the Great Orme but someone else on here may know the answer
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: norman08 on July 31, 2020, 11:57:36 am
Hugo their was a big house on llwynon rd over the road from the school, it was always known as Lesters I can't remember why but maybe that could be it, it was in its own grounds.
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on July 31, 2020, 01:03:14 pm
I seem to remember that house Norman, it was across the road and a short distance from where you used to live so it might be in the right area.
There is a house in Cwlach Street called Bodnant and a Roger Lester lived there in the early 1800's and I was wondering if Lester Row referred to terraced cottages that may have been nearby but I should find the answer for definite in the Archives when it opens
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on August 22, 2020, 12:44:44 pm
I have had a look under the Free Searches for Baptisms online but I cannot find an entry for Henry Davies.      That doesn't mean that Henry wasn't Baptised, just that there was no entry for him in the records I looked at.
I've come across this before with Llandudno and it just means that those records online that I looked at are not complete.     The Church Baptism records go further back than 1801 but the original records are at the Conwy Archives and unfortunately the place is not open at present
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on August 23, 2020, 08:34:59 am
I thought that this article from the BBC about Tai Unnos may be of interest in this research


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53854853 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53854853)
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Bronwen on August 26, 2020, 04:25:31 pm
Hello!
thank you so much for this research - you are just amazing! I have never had so much help before with my family research. I love this forum  :)

I have been a bit swamped with work and family and not had a chance to progress much further myself. I have now managed to get hold of 'Llandudno before the Hotels', and 'Llandudno Through Time' by Christopher Draper, and also 'Home-made Homes' by Eurwyn Wiliam (National Museum of Wales), but again have not managed to really read them in depth. Hopefully a few days off coming up and I might just do some reading  :)

I think I managed to get the marriage certificate for Henry's son David with Mary on 20/10/1866 at the Congregational Church Llandudno (minister Richard Parry). I think this is correct, although David and Mary are such common names.....It shows father's name and profession as Henry Davies Copper Miner.




Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Bronwen on August 26, 2020, 04:35:51 pm
I thought that this article from the BBC about Tai Unnos may be of interest in this research


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53854853 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53854853)

Thank you for this - I feel a visit to the National Museum of Wales is on the cards  :)
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on August 28, 2020, 01:10:20 pm
Hi Bronwen,   welcome from a very wet and windy Llandudno          $walesflag$

I was in the town today and while my wife was shopping I drove up the Orme and took a couple of photos for you of Ormonde Terrace where Idris Davies was born in 1909.
Do you know the number of the house he was born in?     In the photo No 1 is near the road and No 6 is at the other end of the terrace.

There is a reason why I'm asking and that is because Ormonde Terrace has appeared on other family research.    If you put "Ormonde Terrace into the search engine at the top right hand side of the page, add entire forum then click on search and you will see everything that has been posted previously about the terrace

One interesting thing I noticed was a posting from Jom,  she's from New Zealand and is a really great researcher.    The posting was 0n the 4th Sept 2016  and this is an extract from her posting  This is No 6 where the Davies family (Emily Agnes (Owen) and David DAVIES) lived. My mother vaguely recalls it.
If Idris was born at No 6 could that David Davies be your relation?      It may be just a coincidence but if not then you may have a distant relative in NZ

Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on August 29, 2020, 05:13:31 pm
Until I am able to go to the Library or Conwy Archives I can't have access to any records including Census or Baptism  records etc but I did find a free search on the 1911 Census.        The info didn't give the address but I presume that was Ormonde Terrace and the details on the record which I presume you are aware of are as follows:-

       Name                   relationship        age         Place of birth
David Edward  Davies       Head              36              Llandudno
Jane                   "            wife                29             Glan Conwy
Emlyn                 "            son                 7               Llandudno
David                  "              "                   5                     "
Idris                    "              "                   1                     "         
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Bronwen on August 30, 2020, 11:26:36 am
Thank you Hugo, yes, this is my Idris!!
They lived at number 2, Ormonde Terrace. Thank you so much for the pictures  :) .
My mum has described her grandparents cottage as tiny, with only 2 bedrooms upstairs, so the 4 boys shared the 2 bedrooms growing up, and their mum and dad slept downstairs. It didn’t do them any harm, I think all 4 went to university.  $drink$ Not bad going for a mining family who were squatting on the Morfa 3 generations before.

Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on August 30, 2020, 01:05:59 pm
Thanks Bronwen,  I don't know if you know the location to Ormonde Terrace but it's quite high up the Orme.     So the Davies family were not only clever but they must have been fit too!

I found out from a free search that Henry Davies was Baptised on the 27th July 1801 so although we know he was Baptised I couldn't find it on a search online.      However it will be in the Church Baptism Register and that is in the Conwy Archives which is closed at the moment.
As soon as I am able to I'll go there and look at the register which should show me Henry's parents and where they lived.     In 1861 the Census records show that Henry, his wife and two of their children were living at "back of Bryn Y Pin"      ( Eng  Hillof the Pine")   but I haven't been able to find out where that was
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Bronwen on August 30, 2020, 02:01:22 pm
Thank you Hugo - I didn’t really know where Ormonde Terrace was, I know mum used to take the Tram after they came by steam train to Llandudno to stay with grandparents.
Someone on Roots Chat found this for me showing a H Davies at Bryn y Pin, but I haven’t found out any more about where it is.
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on August 30, 2020, 03:48:07 pm
Thanks Bronwen, that was a great help.    It looks like a type of Street Index that you have and gives me a rough idea of where Bryn Y Pin is or was.
Hen Dafarn in English means the old Tavern and the 18th century Hen Dafarn was on the right towards the top of Old Road as you are walking up the Orme.    Next time I go up there I'll have a look to see roughly where it is or was   

I've enclosed a link to a video of the Great Orme Tram  ( you might want to turn the volume down! )  but if you look at it you can see at 1.50 minutes where Hen Dafarn roughly was.
Then at 2.20 minutes the tram slows down where it takes a steep right hand turn.   Ormonde Terrace is straight ahead but out of sight to the left.       My Uncle Bob used to live in Llwynonn Road just below Ormonde Terrace and we used to jump off the tram at this point as there was no H & S in those days

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIxLhXtORvI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIxLhXtORvI)



Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Cambrian on August 30, 2020, 03:50:15 pm
I suspect that Bryn y Pin now the property called "Bay View", 30 Ty Gwyn Road.
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Helig on September 04, 2020, 03:43:27 pm
Just to point out that Henry Davies and family are living in Lester Row in the 1841 census. He is shown as aged 35, a Copper Miner born Caernarfonshire. They have five children. The nearby properties are as follows:

Hen Dafarn
Gate House
Gwaith
Ty Salen (???)
Lester Row
Ochr y Don
Gogarth, occupied by Richard Jones Farmer.
Ty Newydd.

It looks as though it was near the Marine Drive area.

In the 1871 census Orme's Head Cottage is next to Gay Terrace which is shown in the article as next to Hen Dafarn.

Helig
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on September 04, 2020, 10:40:52 pm
Thanks very much for finding that Helig.     Census records were done in some type of order but I don't know why they were done in this order.
I'm just best guessing on this but think that the houses followed this direction:-    starting from the Black Gate they went down Old Road and turned right into Cwlach Street and continued on to the Toll Gate area of West Shore before finishing at Gogarth Farm near the start of Llys Helig Drive

Ty Salen could be Ty Salem the Chapel house of Caersalem in Cwlach Street
Lester Row  I'm guessing are cottages owned by Roger Lester who lived at Bodnant also in Cwlach Street
Ochr Y Don ( side of the waves )  would be by the old Penmorfa Cottages
Gogarth occupied by Richard Jones  was on the Marine Drive by Llys Helig Drive
Ty Newydd,  I've no idea where this was exactly and think that there may have been more than one property in Llandudno with that name

Hope that you are keeping safe and well up there in Scotland
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on September 23, 2020, 12:34:02 pm
Bronwen,  I'm pleased to say that the Conwy Archives has now reopened and I have booked a slot for next Monday afternoon

I want to see the Baptism records for 1801 plus the Burial Index for St Tudno's Church so if I do find anything then I'll post it on here.

As a matter of interest have you been able to view the Census records or your relatives up to 1911?
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on September 28, 2020, 04:15:22 pm
Bronwen,   I called at the Conwy Archives today and looked at the Baptism records that included the year 1801.

I took a photo of Henry Davies' Baptism on the 27th July 1901 and as you can see from the records the details are as follows:-
Henry son of William Davies by Catherine his wife was Baptised 27th July 1801.
You can see from that and all the other Baptisms that no address for any of them wer recorded

However as the records I was looking at were from 1757 onwards I took the opportunity to look at them and this is what I found:-

Elizabeth daughter of William Davies and Catherine his wife was Baptised  June 18th 1789
William      son                                       ditto                                         June 19th 1793
Grace      daughter                                 ditto                                          July  23rd 1797
David         son                                      ditto                                          June 19th  1803
Thomas        "                                        ditto                                          December 30th 1804
James           "                                       ditto                                           July 6th   1806

PS     I've just looked at the notes I made and for Elizabeth I've got the 8th and 18th 1789 so I'm not certain which one is correct, sorry about that

I had a look at the Burial Index for St Tudno's Church but they had no entry for Henry and his wife.    Those Burial Indexes only record graves with headstones and those people who are buried in the Church graveyard.     There is a possibility that Henry may have been buried in St Georges graveyard in Llandudno but I didn't explore that possibility 
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on October 02, 2020, 11:18:15 am
I've just had a look on Free Search and it appears that a Henry Davies died in 1873 aged 71      His death is recorded in the Conwy Registration District in the quarter ended March 1873.
The age matches so Henry Davies should appear in a Census for 1871

One entry I found in the Llandudno Parish Register was the Baptism of William on the 19th June 1793, William being an older brother of Henry.
I've been reading that book by Chris Draper again and at page 217 entitled Revenge of the Revenue Men and it is about the looting in 1824  when the Hornby was shipwrecked on the Great Orme
The name William Davies appears twice at the bottom of the page and both were imprisoned.      I wonder if one of the Williams was Henry's brother who would have been aged about 31 at that time.       The population of Llandudno in 1800 was only 318 and not many were called Davies.    Anyway that's just food for thought
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on October 02, 2020, 12:10:59 pm
I was able to get the info below from a Free Site but it doesn't give the address of Henry in 1871.
Other Census sites on subscription may give that info

Henry Davies
England and Wales Census, 1871

Name:   
Henry Davies
Event Type:   
Census
Event Date:   
1871
Event Place:   
Llandudno, Caernarfonshire, Wales, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original):   
Llandudno, Carnarvonshire, Wales
Sub-District:   
Creuddyn
Enumeration District:   
13
Gender:   
Male
Age:   
70
Marital Status:   
Married
Occupation:   
Copper Miner
Birth Year (Estimated):   
1801
Birthplace:   
Llandudno, Caernarvonshire
Relationship to Head of Household:   
Head
Relationship to Head of Household (Original):   
Head
Affiliate Image Identifier:   
GBC/1871/5739/0240
Household   Role   Sex   Age   Birthplace
Henry Davies   Head   Male   70   Llandudno, Caernarvonshire
Mary Davies   Wife   Female   70   Conway, Caernarvonshire
Thomas Davies   Son   Male   41   Llandudno, Caernarvonshire
William Davies   Son   Male   39   Llandudno, Caernarvonshire
John Davies   Son   Male   32   Llandudno, Caernarvonshire
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Helig on October 02, 2020, 02:22:05 pm
Hello Hugo,

In the 1871 census Henry Davies and family were living in Orme's Head Cottage.

It is interesting to note that the previous household is a Davies family. The head is Keturah Davies, widow, age 47, Lodging House Keeper, born Llangefni, Anglesea. They are living at 3 Gay Terrace. The household before them is headed by John Davies, married, age 52, Quarryman, born Llandudno. This family is living at 2 Gay Terrace.

There is a Family Tree for Henry Davies on Ancestry. This shows his wife as Mary Holl and their marriage in Radnorshire in 1828. I have my doubts about this as Mary is shown as from Conwy in the 1871 census. There is nothing coming up for their marriage on Freereg for Caernarfonshire.

This tree has quite a bit of information on the children of Henry Davies and Mary.

Helig
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on October 02, 2020, 02:43:27 pm
Thanks very much Helig for supplying all that information.      Just to clarify something, does Keturah Davies appear as the next door neighbour to Henry Davies?
It seems that a lot of Davies' lived in the same street but I've found nothing so far to link them as family members

Those records I was looking at in the Archives go back to 1755 so I'm hoping to go back again and look for certain things in them
Hope that you are keeping safe and well in these strange times.   We are in lockdown and it's a bit eerie        *tumble*
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on October 02, 2020, 04:59:51 pm
That's a bit of a mystery about Henry and Mary's marriage and you would have thought that the marriage would have been in Conway or Llandudno

As for Kedurah Davies, I had never heard of the first name before so I googled it and it is a Jewish name but obviously Davies is a Welsh name.
Having said that I remember a good tailor who worked from Madoc Street in the 1960's and his surname was Davies but he was also known as Davies the Jew.    As teenagers if clothes needed altering we  took them there and Mr & Mrs Davies were always in the shop together
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Bri Roberts on October 02, 2020, 06:51:46 pm
Hugo, I too remember Mr Davies and his shop in Madoc Street during the mid-sixties.

However, I always thought the other lady in the shop was Mr Davies’ sister and not his wife.

I wonder which one of us is right?  ?{}?

Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on October 02, 2020, 08:05:49 pm
My mistake BRI you are correct and it was his sister.   Thanks for pointing it out    $good$
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Helig on October 03, 2020, 02:44:00 pm
Hello Hugo,

It is difficult to tell if Keturah Davies was next door to Henry Davies and family. The census shows the list as Gay Terrace numbers 1-3, then Orme's Head Cottage. As advised, numbers 2 and 3 Gay Terrace were occupied by people with the name of Davies. It looked to me as though they could be related to Henry Davies but without further research, it will be impossible to know for certain.

I remember Madoc St in the 1960s, where was the tailor's shop that the Davies family had? Do you know the name of Mr Davies? I have seen the name Keturah used for girls in the 19th century. The others who were called this name had no Jewish connections.

I don't think the marriage in Radnorshire is right for them. It looks to me as though someone has found this and matched it to them but I should have thought they would have married in the Conwy, or Llandudno area. I couldn't find a marriage there. It would appear that henry Davies would have been buried in Llandudno, assuming he was still living at Orme's Head Cottage when he died in 1873.

It is scary here as the Covid virus is spreading locally but there is no mention of a lockdown up to now. There have been cases in pubs, hairdressers, hotels and restaurants, Most of these closed down for a deep clean but not all. The Police are not enforcing the regulations and never have done. In very recent times, people who have been caught breaching the rules in the early hours of the morning have been taken to a local guest house and dumped there, rather than arrested and put in the cells for the night. This means they are putting other people at risk because they are too bone idle to do what they should.

Helig

Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on October 03, 2020, 02:50:04 pm
There is a Family Tree for Henry Davies on Ancestry. This shows his wife as Mary Holl and their marriage in Radnorshire in 1828. I have my doubts about this as Mary is shown as from Conwy in the 1871 census. There is nothing coming up for their marriage on Freereg for Caernarfonshire.

This tree has quite a bit of information on the children of Henry Davies and Mary.

Helig

That's interesting Helig because I've just had a look on Free Search and David Davies, Henry's son appears in the 1871 Census at Llandudno.    ( again no address supplied )   together with his wife Mary, their two children and two lodgers.
David's wife Mary was born in Manfairfield  Carmarthenshire and the Census shows the son John H Davies as being born in Manfairfield
There may be a misspelling of the place name but there is a Fairfield in Radnorshire and that may be because of boundary changes at some time.
I'll try and find some more info about the family when I next go to the Archives

Helig,  I have just read your latest posting and it's a shame that the Police are behaving like that and risking the lives of people who stick to the rules.      Scotland were doing so well in the fight against Covid and I admire Nicola Sturgeon for what she has done.    It's a shame that the Covid figures have shot up there and if the Police behave like you say then unfortunately you may face a lockdown too.
The minority spoil it for the majority in so many ways
Anyway I hope that you are keeping safe and well
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Helig on October 03, 2020, 02:54:31 pm
I noticed that Bronwen's first post mentioned a David Davies, b 1838, who lived in Hughes Cottage, or Hughes Yard, Back Madoc St and whose occupation was a Tailor.

I'll have another look at the Davies tree on Ancestry to see if there are any clues for their marriage. There is no specific information about this, such as the location, church etc.

Helig.
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on October 03, 2020, 03:04:45 pm
Thanks Helig for the info re Back Madoc Street.     At one time it was a hive of industry with many people working and living there.
I'm old enough to remember parts of the street before the houses were demolished to make way for the Victoria Centre

From the 1871 Census it would appear that David Davies was living in Fairfield and their elder son was born there so the marriage may have taken place there too
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on October 03, 2020, 03:33:43 pm
Here's a photo of Back Madoc Street and the old houses as I remember them in the mid 1960's
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Blongb on October 03, 2020, 03:48:48 pm
A branch of the Davies family had a small grocers shop and attached cottage in Somerset Street, Their cottage/shop was pulled down at the end of the 90's and rebuilt in the same style to form the stockroom at the back of Shoe Zone.
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on October 12, 2020, 05:32:03 pm
An old photo of one of the traders in Back Madoc Street
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on October 12, 2020, 05:49:21 pm
I went to the Conwy Archives today and found the Baptism Register for David Davies ( see photo ) he was Baptised on the 28th May 1837 and at that time Henry was a miner and living at Pen Y Ffrith which are cottages on top of the Great Orme.     The entry is No 300 in the Register.

I had a look at the Burial Index for St Georges Church but there was no entry for Henry and Mary Davies but I did see the sad entry for their son Hugh who is referred to in that book.
The inscription on the headstone was all in Welsh but the English translation is as follows:-
Here lies the body of Hugh son of Henry and Mary Davies of Morfa Isaf.   Hewas buried on the 5th December 1844 aged 18 months
I called at the Church but the grave was not in the position shown on the map and it may have been relocated in the Churchyard

PS      The correct date for the Baptism of Elizabeth is confirmed at the 18th June 1789
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Bronwen on October 12, 2020, 08:45:26 pm
Wow! Thank you so much, Hugo, Blongb, Helig, Bri Roberts, this is so kind, and amazing!

Thank you Hugo for nudging me to have a look, I really thought that we were stuck until the archives re-opened, and I wasn’t expecting that to happen just yet.

It’s beginning to feel like the real Davies family is being found. I am looking forward to the half term coming up when I can spend some time fitting in everything you have found out into my tree. I will probably have more questions then!!

Diolch yn fawr $3towns$
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on October 13, 2020, 08:45:44 am
Yesterday when I was in the Archives I was looking for information on William Davies, Henry's father.     I suspect the marriage was before 1789 because William's daughter was Baptised in 1789.
I couldn't find a record of the marriage between William and Catherine so perhaps Catherine was from another Parish and they were married in her Parish as was the custom in those days.
I couldn't find William's Baptism records either and that may simply because the records start from 1755 and William may have been born before that date.

Henry's marriage to Mary wasn't recorded in the Llandudno Parish Register that I looked at and that may be because they were married in the Parish where Mary lived at that time.     Census records show that Mary's birthplace was recorded as being in Llanfairfechan so there may be an entry in the Llanfairfechan Register,  those records incidentally are also in the Conwy Archives

I had a walk on the Great Orme this year and attach some photos to show you the beautiful views that Henry would have seen from his Pen Y Ffridd cottage and I've also included one of the resident Goats that live on the Orme
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on October 19, 2020, 04:19:43 pm
I have just been having a dabble on Free search and came across something that may be worth following up:-

The Marriage of William Davies to Catherine Roberts           
Marriage 4th June 1786  Conway Caernarfonshire
     "       Banns    "             "

The Register in the Conwy Archives may shed some light on this but unfortunately the Archives will now close for 17 days from this Friday                  "
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Helig on October 20, 2020, 02:48:56 pm
Steve has posted this on the Gt Orme board but I thought you might like to see it:

This is a very unusual postcard and I have never seen anything like it before.

Helig





Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on October 20, 2020, 04:28:45 pm
It's a photo of the Great Orme Copper mines C 1890 and that photo appears in some of the paperback books on Llandudno.    The former Horeb Chapel 1860 appears in the top right of the photo
I've a vague memory of Vivian's shaft that circular building in the foreground but don't know when it was demolished.      The Orme is littered with these shafts and when I had a walk up Maes Y Fachrell earlier this year I could see a lot of shafts in that area and Vivian's shaft may be one of those.
Incidentally when we were doing research for some family on the forum they were looking for the location of a house and I think the house was called something like Plas Helig but no one knew where it had been.    Anyway I spoke to Tom Parry whose house can be seen in the photo and he confirmed that it had been where the copper mines are now but had long since been demolished
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: karenjadejoy on October 23, 2020, 05:57:54 pm
An old photo of one of the traders in Back Madoc Street
   re the photo, of the builders in back madoc street, below in reply #40

It is the yard of Edward Owen b 1874  son of Richard Owen of Bodowain, b c1842 sib of John Owen of avalon, (the alderman)b 1857 also sib of my relative -Ann owen m to robert hughes.  Ann John and Richard's Maternal Grandmother was Margaret Davies b1787 Llandudno, child of Rev Thomas Davies b 1745. resident 1792- at Penymynydd, Great Ormes Head, Llandudno.  His parents William Davies &???     
Children of Thomas Davies. 
John Davies 1775-
Robert Davies  1785–1813
Anne Davies  1786–1851
Margaret Davies........... grandparent of Owens  1787–1828
Richard Davies 1793–1866

I havnt looked into them very much, and maybe not connected to the Davies family of this Topic. i need to have a look. but have posted in case of interest.

Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on October 25, 2020, 08:16:16 am
Thanks very much for posting all that info Karen, it may be very helpful for anyone following the Davies tree.

From the Baptism records I've been looking at I would think that this William Davies was born around the mid 1760's but that's only a guess.       
I've also found out that 3 people named William Davies were buried in St Tudno's  Cemetery around 1840 and considering that the population of Llandudno was probably under 1000 then it seems that was a popular name at the time.
Anyway until the Archives reopens in a few weeks there is nothing else I can do to follow this up
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on October 28, 2020, 11:37:54 am
I have just been having a dabble on Free search and came across something that may be worth following up:-

The Marriage of William Davies to Catherine Roberts           
Marriage 4th June 1786  Conway Caernarfonshire
     "       Banns    "             "

The Register in the Conwy Archives may shed some light on this but unfortunately the Archives will now close for 17 days from this Friday                  "

I've had another go on a Parish search and found out a William Davies and Catherine Roberts were married in Conwy in 1786, surprisingly there were two entries and the second one referred to Gyffin, Conwy.
Those Parish records were taken from the Conwy Parish Register of BMD for the years 1541 to 1793.       That Register is in the Conwy Archives under Ref    CEP3/1/1.

As soon as circumstances allow I'll have another look at the Register to see if there is any other information available on that entry     
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Bronwen on November 12, 2020, 08:00:34 am
Huge, thank you for all of this! I didn’t have the time I hoped over the half term, 🙁. I did find some of the photos I was thinking of, perhaps you could tell me if they are from Llandudno?
I love the goats photo, mam used to tell me about the goats, and of course one of them may be the Welsh Rugby goat.
I did try and research Henry a bit more on FMP but got a bit stuck, so will try to find a weekend when I can have another go :)
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on November 12, 2020, 02:23:07 pm
They are lovely photos Bronwen and thanks for posting them on here.       The double fronted house in the first photo looks familiar but I can't say which Street it is in but I have seen similar houses in the town that looked very much like that house.       
The Archives have street indexes which are alphabetical so I may be able to trace it that way.   Do you know the year of the photo and the family members name?
Perhaps someone else on the forum may recognise where the house is and where the other photos were taken
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: norman08 on November 12, 2020, 02:49:36 pm
Hugo the2 nd pic down, mum 2 boys looks like church walks outside pier hotel, see the beer sign behind boys, just make the empire and turning to ty gwyn road, I've seen that type of house in first pic st Beunos rd.
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Helig on November 12, 2020, 03:13:02 pm
The third photo is taken outside the same house as is in the first photo. The window is identical and it has the horizontal and vertical lines in a lighter colour than the render the same as the first photo.

Helig
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on November 13, 2020, 10:14:46 am
Hugo the2 nd pic down, mum 2 boys looks like church walks outside pier hotel, see the beer sign behind boys, just make the empire and turning to ty gwyn road, I've seen that type of house in first pic st Beunos rd.

You could be correct with the location of the Pier Hotel in Church Walks Norman but I'm not sure about the house being in St Beuno's Road.
There is a house there called Baron Hill which is on the left by that nasty sharp bend in the road and that looks similar.    I've had a look at a very old photo of that house and a recent one I've taken and don't think that it's the same one.    The three upper windows are similar but the rendering is different.
I'm sure that someone on the forum knows but if not then I may be able to trace it in the Archives
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: karenjadejoy on November 13, 2020, 10:42:34 am
Hi,
It is me that has the connection to Baron hill in st beunos rd. and funnily enough when i was looking at the photos yesterday,  i thought it looked similar. however the people in the photos i don't recognise.  and i dont think i have too clear a photo of the house, from back then. one with robert hughes and wife ann owen in front of it.  and there seems to be alot of trees around it at that time.
i have attached a photo of back then. to compare.  post 1st ww, im not sure whom lived there and was possibly sold to a different family.

but in the pic privded that house front door opens onto the road,  thus it definately isnt baron hill.
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Bronwen on November 13, 2020, 11:49:09 am
Hi, now looking at the photos Hugo posted on 28/8 - I think that another photo might be David Edward (Edward) and Jane Davies at 2 Ormonde Terrace. Then the photo of the ‘double fronted’ house might not be Llandudno, it might be my Parry family from Llanrug?
The bricks around the door look right for the Ormonde Terrace house
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on November 13, 2020, 01:29:29 pm
I agree Karen but it is similar except for the fact that I think that it's either a semi detached property or in a terrace.      I have seen that style of building but for the life of me I can't remember where.

Bronwen,  the photo looks like it was taken in the 1950's so I'm guessing that it is David Edward in the photo.     Those Street Indexes I've mentioned previously list in alphabetical order one person fron every household in Llandudno so it may be easy to locate.   
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Bronwen on November 13, 2020, 06:01:14 pm
Yes I agree the rendered house was attached - I found another picture, but I’m thinking it must be Llanrug side of the family, not Llandudno, because the other picture looks right for Ormonde Terrace - thank you for the photos you took  :)
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Bronwen on November 13, 2020, 06:07:55 pm
I think this must be Llanrug family. You can see here that the house is joined on the right side
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Bronwen on November 13, 2020, 06:16:12 pm
I have been bugged by this house today, but I looked up possible places in Llanrug and I think I have found the house from as estate agent pic. So this family would be Ann & Robert Davies (different Davies’s), Bryngwyn Tce Llanrug.

Do you think my other pictures are Llandudno, or is it impossible to tell?

Thank you for helping me to put the right names to the faces by identifying the houses though  $3towns$
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on November 16, 2020, 05:41:34 pm
I think that you have got the right house there Bronwen.         The modern rendering is poor but you can still make the design out underneath it.   Look at the ground floor and above the door and windows and the heads of what look like Lions have still been retained.
The window sills are also more in keeping with your photos unlike the house on the left of the Estate Agent's photo.
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on November 25, 2020, 04:53:01 pm
I went to the Conwy Archives today and had a look at the Gyffin Marriage Register (  CEP6/1/2 )   and found a marriage on the 4th June 1786 for William Davies and Catherine Roberts.
The condition of the Register and the handwriting was immaculate considering that it is over 250 years old
This is the only record in the area that I have been able to trace for a William and Catherine but it is not, unfortunately conclusive proof that they are the same people that are the parents of Henry Davies. 
William lived in Aber which is a village about 10 miles from Gyffin

While not conclusive it could be that William and Catherine moved to Llandudno soon after the marriage and had their first child Elizabeth in 1789.   I rechecked the Llandudno Baptism record and found no child being Baptised before Elizabeth

Henry died in 1873 and was buried on the 20th February 1873 aged 71 and his address was given as Old Road Llandudno

Mary his wife was still living in the 1881 Census and was aged 80.  She lived at Bay View Cottage with her son John aged 40 and he was born in 1841.      Sadly she died shortly afterwards and was buried on the 3rd May 1881.    Her address in the Burial Register was Bryn Y Pin  Hen Dafarn.
Unfortunately I have been unable to find the graves of any of the Davies family from William to Idris
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on November 27, 2020, 12:38:47 pm
I was thinking about the Davies family last night and William and Catherine had 7 children including Henry by 1801, so that meant that there was a total of 9 people living together in the house.
At that time the entire population of Llandudno was just 318 so the Davies family accounted for roughly 3% of the total population.

From what information I have had a look at,  Henry, David and David Edward all had sons and no daughters so the Davies surname must have been carried down through the ages and there must be a lot of people still living in Llandudno who can trace their ancestry back to Henry or his brothers.

I'm surprised that I've been unable to trace any burial records for the family, especially William,  Henry and David but something may turn up in the future
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Bronwen on December 01, 2020, 10:31:57 pm
Hugo, thank you, this is Brilliant!! The script is so beautiful, I am proud to have my family mentioned. I was thinking, like you, that I could do a tree from William down, and find the children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, and great great grandchildren- they might make other connections in Llandudno I don’t know about. “Find my Past” job for Christmas!
Thank you so much for your fabulous research in Llandudno, I could never have found all this out without Three Towns Forum  $drink$
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on December 07, 2020, 06:22:14 pm
I was in the Archives today so I used their computer to look at some Census records.   
In 1901 David Davies was living in 5 Hughes Yard Back Madoc Street  Llandudno with his wife Mary and their son John H Davies

In 1911  David Edward Davies was living at 2 Ormonde Terrace  with his wife and young family.   David Edward was a Plumber by trade and was an employee of Llandudno Urban District Council
By coincidence there was a David Davies living at No 6 Ormonde Terrace who may or may not have been a relative, as there were a lot of Davies' living there in those days

In the 1939 Register David Edward was still living at 2 Ormonde Terrace with his wife and a Sarah Davies (born 26th Jan 1878
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: menatworkwales on November 18, 2021, 12:07:09 am
Hugo the2 nd pic down, mum 2 boys looks like church walks outside pier hotel, see the beer sign behind boys, just make the empire and turning to ty gwyn road, I've seen that type of house in first pic st Beunos rd.

You could be correct with the location of the Pier Hotel in Church Walks Norman but I'm not sure about the house being in St Beuno's Road.
There is a house there called Baron Hill which is on the left by that nasty sharp bend in the road and that looks similar.    I've had a look at a very old photo of that house and a recent one I've taken and don't think that it's the same one.    The three upper windows are similar but the rendering is different.
I'm sure that someone on the forum knows but if not then I may be able to trace it in the Archives

Hugo, I live in 4 St Beunos. Could I possibly bother you for a full res copy of that photo please?
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: Hugo on November 18, 2021, 10:18:11 am
You would be very welcome to it if I still have it.   Unfortunately I lost thousands of photos about two years ago when I failed to back up my computer.
Which photo were you interested in as I did post a lot of photos of houses on here?     Is it Baron Hill by any chance?
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: menatworkwales on November 20, 2021, 03:50:49 am
Yes the Baron Hill image, but we're just on the left at Number 4
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: karenjadejoy on November 20, 2021, 11:16:01 am
Hi men at work,
i have the original photo of the one you are lookiong for from St beuno's, (well my mum does).
my G.great grandfather i believe built and lived  at no 5 (Baron Hill)- Robert Hughes. until the early part of the 20th century.
Karen.
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: menatworkwales on November 22, 2021, 08:08:37 pm
That would be fantastic to see Karen if possible, and any others around our smalla area.
Title: Re: Davies family - Llandudno
Post by: karenjadejoy on November 22, 2021, 09:17:46 pm
That would be fantastic to see Karen if possible, and any others around our smalla area.
i am not too sure how to make that happen at the moment as, I dont live in the Llandudno area.
I will at least try to get hold of it when i next visit my mum,  it isnt in the greatest shape if i remember rightly.
i will get back to you as and when . i could at least try to get a full res copy of it done.
Karen