Three Towns Forum
The Local => Genealogy & Research => Topic started by: ckirkrph on September 28, 2019, 09:04:15 pm
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Hey there. I have hit a brick wall in tracking my great grandmother Annie maria Kirk (Jones). So I am going to try to gather as much info on her siblings til maybe I will finally find where she is buried. Some of the incredibly able folks I have been fortune enough to find have already helped with answering questions about siblings Grace Ellen Jones and others so I thought with Bessie being rather close in age to my great grandmother perhaps I will be fortunate enough to connect with some of her lineage and get to know even more distant cousins and such. Any info is of course much appreciated. As far as siblings go I have found:
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Her father was Pierce Jones and Jane Anne Jones. I would appreciate any info on any of the siblings of course.
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Chad,
I have seen your Family Tree on Ancestry and you seem to have a considerable amount of information on this family. I wouldn't want to start researching all of these from scratch as you have so much already. You will need to specify exactly what information you are looking for.
I suspect the only way you will find where Annie is buried would be to obtain her death certificate which would give an address and enquire of the local council in that area as to the burial grounds that would cover it.
Helig.
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Chad,
Helig is correct in what he has said, we know how much time and effort goes into research and don't want to duplicate anything that you already know so if you want anything specific just post on here and we will gladly help you if we can
I've mentioned this before on the research matters but I'll just repeat it again in case you didn't see it. A year or more ago I sent off my DNA to My Heritage in Houston Texas. I just wanted to know where my ancestors came from many hundreds of years ago.
I found that out but since then I have had many contacts from all over the world and at present have over 12,000 distantly related relatives on that data base.
Something like that may help you as will posting things on here and from a personal point of view I had a nice surprise on here when I found out that I was distantly related to Meleri an other forum member
You just need a stroke of good luck to come up with the answers you are looking for
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Elizabeth Jones married William Henry Rusholme 23/12/1902 Llandudno Parish Church. His address was 165 Gladstone Avenue, Noel Park, Woodgreen, London, father William. They had a daughter Violet Gwendoline Rusholme born 28/2/1907 Edmonton, Middlesex, baptised 21/4/1907, home address 165 Gladstone Park, father Ironwork Erector. Elizabeth died Chard Somerset 1953 Age 75 & husband William died 1965 Chard Somerset leaving his estate to Violet. Violet died 3/1986 Honiton Devon.
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Tan Y Wal connection. Can you help please ?
Anyone on here got access to crew records for Llandudno Lifeboat ?
Was Pierce Jones (1883-1964) ever a member of the lifeboat crew ?
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Hi Mull, hope that you are both keeping well up there on the island. There may be records somewhere but I seem to remember asking them before and was referred to their Head Office so I've e-mailed them and asked them if they have the answers you are looking for.
I'll post on here if I get a reply from them
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Thanks Hugo.
I remember you saying that you had asked at the station without any luck. Knowing how good this site is I was wondering if there might be someone with the information. You never know who is on here.
Season is slowing down now and easier to drive around the island. Not been easy during the season on single track roads and tourists with no idea how to use their mirrors or how to reverse. I have always enjoyed driving but this summer has been hard work, perhaps I am getting older and not as patient these days.
Still got to post the article on Kinmell Camp railway and also a photo of Bessie for Chad but I still unable to find the scanner. Think Windows has updated something and hidden it.
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Don't mention updates on Windows 10 Mull, I'm definitely losing patience with the system
I think that it was DaveR who gave me a tip when I couldn't scan something and he said just take a photo of the photo you want to scan and I've done that a few times on here.
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The 1901 census has Annie Maria Kirk in Yardley as Chad has provided in the past. She is with a family by the name of Gilliard, a servant, married and occupation Nurse. It has her born Llandudno.
At that time, Solihull was divided between Warwickshire and Worcestershire:
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/solihull.html (https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/solihull.html)
Yardley came under Worcestershire. These days it would be considered part of Birmingham.
I have discovered that there is a possible burial on this site:
https://www.birminghamburialrecords.co.uk/search/records?visibility=1&a%5Bdeceased_forename%5D%5Bv%5D=annie&a%5Bdeceased_surname%5D%5Bv%5D=kirk&a%5Bcemeterycrematorium_name%5D%5Bv%5D=Yardley+Cemetery&a%5Bcemeterycrematorium_name%5D%5Bt%5D=eq&a%5Byear_of_burial__cremation%5D%5Bv%5D=1909&a%5Byear_of_burial__cremation%5D%5Bm%5D=&action=search (https://www.birminghamburialrecords.co.uk/search/records?visibility=1&a%5Bdeceased_forename%5D%5Bv%5D=annie&a%5Bdeceased_surname%5D%5Bv%5D=kirk&a%5Bcemeterycrematorium_name%5D%5Bv%5D=Yardley+Cemetery&a%5Bcemeterycrematorium_name%5D%5Bt%5D=eq&a%5Byear_of_burial__cremation%5D%5Bv%5D=1909&a%5Byear_of_burial__cremation%5D%5Bm%5D=&action=search)
The burial was in Yardley cemetery in August 1909. I am afraid you have to pay to get more information. This would give you the address of Annie.
This ties in with her death being registered in the September quarter of 1909.
https://www.birminghamburialrecords.co.uk/ (https://www.birminghamburialrecords.co.uk/)
I leave it up to you to pursue this with the council.
Helig
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There is a death registered for Annie Maria Kirk in 1909 3rd Quarter in Solihull, Warwickshire. No burial info found. You could buy a PDF Certificate from GRO they are a lot cheaper at £6 & you can download them.
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Just to avoid confusion, there are many posts on the previous board that relate to this family. These can be seen here:
http://www.threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3598.0.html (http://www.threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3598.0.html)
In order to try and make matters easier the new board was set up to cover the specific points on Chad's ancestors. The 18 pages on the other board were a bit unwieldy to wade through all the time.
Helig
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Hello Chad,
I have another piece of information for you.
Catherine Jones, b1874, married in the parish church of Llandudno on 9 November 1895. Her name is shown as Kate on the marriage certificate. The certificate reads:
George Henry Marshall, age 26, Bachelor, occupation Porter, address: 39 Madoc Street, Llandudno, father: Walter Corelius Marshall, occupation: Civil Service.
Kate Jones, age 21, spinster, address Severn Cottage, 8 Carolne Street, Llandudno, father: Pierce Jones, Plasterer.
Witnesses were: Bessie Jones and James Henry Roberts.
In the 1901 census, Catherine is living in 18 Jubilee St, Llandudno. The household is as follows:
George Henry Marshall, Head, married, age 31, occupation: Craneman, born Woolwich, Kent.
Kate Marshall, age 26, born Llandudno.
Gertrude J Marshall, age 4, daughter, born Llandudno.
Percival Marshall, son, age 3, born Llandudno.
Walter George Marshall, son, age 1, born Llandudno.
In the 1911 census the family are living in the Pen y Cefn Inn, Llandegfan, Anglesey. The household is as follows:
George Henry Marshall, Head, age 42, occupation: Inn Keeper, born Woolwich, Kent.
Kate Marshall, Wife, age 36, occupation: assisting in the business, born Llandudno.
Gertrude Jane Marshall, daughter, age 14, born Llandudno.
Percival Marshall, son, age 13, school, born Llandudno.
Walter George Marshall, son, age 11, school, born Llandudno.
Elizabeth Marshall, daughter, age 9, school, born Llandudno.
Henry Edward Marshall, age 5, son, school, born Llandudno.
Helig
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Harry Jones, official name is Henry Jones, was baptised in Llandudno on 14 November 1886. Address when baptised: 1 Back Madoc Street, Llandudno.
It appears that Pierce and Jane Jones baptised their children is a sort of job lot that day. The register shows they baptised children as follows:
Henry Jones
John Jones
Elizabeth Jones
Catherine Jones
Pierce Jones
Anne Jones
Grace Ellen Jones
Henry Jones attended St George's National School in Llandudno where the registers show his date of birth as 2 October 1886. He was admitted there in February 1891 and his address was: 7 Back Augusta Street.
His marriage and death are more of a problem!
Helig
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These may be of interest to you:
https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/directory_record/462/yardley_cemetery_and_crematorium (https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/directory_record/462/yardley_cemetery_and_crematorium)
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/yardley-cemetery-map.39629/ (https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/yardley-cemetery-map.39629/)
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=556444.0 (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=556444.0)
Helig
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Good stuff here Helig. Thanks for the hard work.
Interesting that Henry and Kate would be running Pen Y Cefn Inn in Llandegfan in 1911.
Wonder if this has a connection with my Taid, John Jones, meeting up with my Nain, Grace Ellan Jones. John Jones born in Llandegfan and married my Nain in 1915 in Llandudno ?
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Just getting back to Henry Jones, there are some more school admission books and registers on Find My Past which show he attended St George's National School in 1894. This one has his father as Pierce Jones but his date of birth as 20 August 1885. I am not sure how reliable these entries are as I suspect some of the details got mixed up.
I cannot find him in the 1939 register. There is a death for a Henry Jones in 1939, age 53. That puts his year of birth as 1886.
There is a record for a Henry Jones, Private, resident Llandudno, born 1886, who served in WW1. It appears to show he was discharged in 1917 due to disability. It isn't possible to see the original record so cannot be certain it is the same person.
Helig
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Hello Mull,
It is a distinct possibility as to how your grandparents met originally. I am struggling to find any more on this line, or George Marshall at least. He should be in the 1939 register but there is no trace so far. In fact it has proved difficult to find anything for this family after 1911. There are some people with identical names living in Australia but it isn't possible to be certain they are the same family.
There are a few people with Family Trees for this line on Ancestry but they are all Personal Member trees which means you cannot access them unless you get their permission.
I found Walter George Marshall, b1899, attended St George's National school in Llandudno in 1907. The school register/admission book has his father as George Marshall, address The Dargle, Bodhyfryd Road. The book states he left on 21 November 1907, having "gone to Anglesey". Prior to that he attended Lloyd St infants school in 1902. The address shown was in Jubilee St.
I hope you are keeping well. It looks as though there is another storm heading across later this week.
Helig
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I found an interesting article in The North Wales Chronicle dated 11 September 1897. It reports a Coroner's Inquest into the death of Hubert Stone age 14. The main witness was Pierce Jones, Plasterer, of 7 Back Augusta St. Pierce Jones heard that a boy was missing and went to search form him. He found his body under Little Orme's Head at 8-8.15am. There is an interesting account of the hearing.
Helig
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Tan Y Wal connection. Can you help please ?
Anyone on here got access to crew records for Llandudno Lifeboat ?
Was Pierce Jones (1883-1964) ever a member of the lifeboat crew ?
Mull, I've had a reply from the RNLI and it confirms that Pierce Jones was a member of the RNLI and had been for 50 years. I've attached a copy of the e-mail I received today, I hope that this is the info you are looking for. Scroll down to the bottom to see the report on Pierce-
"I can confirm that Pierce Jones was part of the crew at Llandudno. He retired in 1952 after 50 years of involvement with the station. You can see a notice of the award made on his retirement here: https://lifeboatmagazinearchive.rnli.org/volume/33/361/awards-to-coxswains-and-life-boatmen?searchterm="pierce+jones"&page=1
We don;t appear to have any further records, our crew information for this period being patchy. I do hope what I have provided is helpful."
Best wishes
Haylry
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Wow! I go missing in action a few days and you guys come up with so much info. You are absolutely correct, the 18 pages of previous info is a lot to process but very helpful. I will follow up on all your leads. Thanks so very much for everything! I hadn't found anything on Kate and Henry/Harry so that is a real lead there! Somebody mentioned a specific cemetery above for Annie Maria so I will start contacting folks. I will of course check in as I do love to see what you guys are researching. If I can help research anybody on my end just ask, anytime. Mull! Please contact me if you want anymore of the pics I have! Kirk18@cox.net. Chad
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Hi Helig,
All OK on Mull. Storm Lorenzo just arrived, Calmac have now cancelled all mainland and Iona ferries for rest of today. Just got home after a trip to the dentist in Tobermory (130 mile round trip ). Due NHS cuts the mobile surgery no longer comes down to the South West end of the island. Now got fire lit for the evening.
Interesting how odd things my mother mentioned when I was a young boy, and I did not take a lot of notice, have been confirmed on this forum.
Eg: Doris (1930) adopted by Richard and Jane Jones.
Now Hugo has turned up information from RNLI HQ. Uncle Percy was awarded for 50 years service with Llandudno Lifeboat in 1952. My
mother had mentioned he was a lifeboatman.
I can recall my mother mentioning we had relatives in Australia but that is all I Know.
Pierce Jones discovering the body of a young boy at the foot of the Little Orme.
If you go on the Grace Ellen Jones 1885-1961 thread ( Record 185 Feb 1st 2018 ), Hugo has some photos he took when he went to find the memorial stone erected by the boys parents at the foot of Little Orme. It is only accessable from the beach at Spring Low Tides.
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This is just part of the memorial for Hubert Stone, all my other photos were lost when my laptop crashed and it wasn't backed up
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Hello Mull, Hugo and Chad,
I trust you have survived Storm Lorenzo and it has quietened down now.
I had a feeling that the story about Hubert Stone was covered by Hugo before. I shall have to refresh my memory and read the older posts.
I was thinking about the Marshall family last night and I have a strong suspicion that it is the same family that kept appearing in Australia. I will do some more research and see what I can find.
Did we find much on John Jones, husband of Grace Ellen Jones? I see there is a photo of their grave at St Tudno on Billiondollar graves Site:
https://billiongraves.com/grave/Grace-Ellen-Jones/296740
It states that John Jones died 15 August 1937, aged 53, at 59 Clare Road, Bootle. He was late of MDHB, Mersey Docks and Harbour Board.
Grace died 29 December 1961, aged 76.
Helig
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Hi Helig,
We visited North Wales about 2 years ago and spent a morning in Anglesey Archives in Llangefni trying to nail down information on birth of my Taid. Trouble was his name, John Jones is so popular. We Found the baptism records at Llandegfan at that time a bit chaotic. Wonder if the recorder had enjoyed a few sherries. Had difficulty in matching up my Taids DOB, recorded in his Seamans Discharge Book with recorded births. Wonder if he had claimed to be a year older when he registered as a seaman.
Weather on the day at Llangefni was very hot and I had to abandon the search because I could not leave my dog in the car outside any longer. I have not been back since but when I get the chance will try again, and get to the bottom of his exact date of birth.
Thank you again for the searching you have done.
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I have found a baptism for Violet Gwendoline Rusholme in St Mark, Noel Park, Haringey. She was baptised on 21 April 1907, d/o William Henry and Elizabeth Rusholme. William's occupation is Iron work erector. They lived at 165a Gladstone Avenue.
An interesting find for Elizabeth Rusholme (Bessie Jones) in the 1911 census. She is living in Llandudno and the details are as follows:
Woodley, 53 Alexandra Road, Llandudno.
Mrs W Rusholme, wife, married, age 32, occupation: private, born Llandudno.
Violet Rusholme, daughter, age 4, born Wood Green, London.
Gwladys Rusholme, daughter, age 9 months, born Wood Green.
Mary Jane Jones, age 18, single, sister, at home, born Llandudno.
It states that she has been married for 8 years and has had 2 children.
There are some pieces of information on William Rusholme, Bessie's husband.
He was born in Selby, Yorkshire in 1878. In the 1891 census he was living in Wood Green, London, with his parents and siblings. He is on a list of embarkees on the Dominion Monarch arriving in Southampton on 15 November 1945. The port of origin was Sydney, Australia. He was aged 68 and an Engineer. The list is headed, "Hong Kong and Malayan internees embarked at Sydney for the United Kingdom". The ports of call for the voyage were: Freemantle, Aden, Suez and Port Said. William Rusholme's last country of permanent residence is shown as Celebes. His home address was: 8 Prices Avenue, Cliftonville, Margate, Kent.
There is another entry for him on a ship's passenger list this time for 12 April 1935. The Dempo was sailing from Southampton to Netherlands and India. William Rusholme is shown as contracted to land at Singapore. His home address is: Connaught Road, Margate, Kent. His occupation is erector. Country of last permanent residence given as UK. Country of future permanent residence shown as "S.S.". I think that stands for Straits Settlement.
Find my past has him on the passenger list of the Khiva on 15 August 1919. It is a list of passengers embarked at the port of Bombay and the ship is bound for London. He is contracted to land at Singapore and his country of intended future residence is given as Christmas Island. Occupation: erector, age 41.
It looks as though he wasn't with Bessie very much.
Helig.
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Now that we have had the confirmation that Pierce Jones was a member of the RNLI from 1902 to 1952 we can be certain that one of the Lifeboats he served on was the Theodore Price
The Theodore Price arrived in Llandudno in 1902 and that was the year that Pierce Jones joined the RNLI. The boat was in active service for 30 years so that boat is definitely one that Pierce served on but there were also a number of boats afterwards that he would have gone on.
The Theodore Price was a self righting boat, 37 feet long and powered by 12 oars the RNLI has a reputation for brave volunteers but those volunteers must have been exceptionally brave to go out in a boat without an engine.
The photo was taken in 1915 so Pierce may be amongst the crew in the photo
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Well done Hugo.
I have a feeling that is him bottom right in the top photo. They must have been strong men in those days to keep rowing for several hours.
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Here are 3 more photos that may be of interest to you Mull
The 1st one is of the arrival of the Theodore Price on its arrival to Llandudno in 1902. It was designed and built to the specifications of 3 members of the crew namely Coxwain John Hughes, Deputy Cox John Williams and John Owen ( who later became Cox )
The 2nd one is a launch of the Theodore Price about 1910
The 3rd is of the Thomas and Annie Wade Richards lifeboat which was in service from 1933 to 1953. It looks like the photo was taken in front of the old Lifeboat Station next to the Conwy Archives
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Hey. I did a time back get a copy of Annie Maria's death certificate but nothing was mentioned about where she may have been buried. Now I believe it as Helig who sent the link to Yardley Cemetery and I do believe you might have found her. I don't recall Yardley being mentioned before but if I missed it I do apologize, but I am so so happy for all your efforts, they are always above and beyond! I did purchase burial info and I am confident it is her. Even more exciting I was able to contact Annie Maria's 92 year old granddaughter and let her know something she always wanted to know, where her gram was buried. I will be flying over as soon as i get my passport updated (of course it expired) to put some flowers on her grave and or buy her a proper stone if necessary.
I just wanted to follow up on everything and of course as time goes if I have any info on folks searching on here I would be happy to help! Thanks so much and if you ever do hear anything from the Jones family related to me who are interested in sharing information I am definitely excited and happy to do so. Excited to see beautiful Llandudno too. Thanks guys!
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Hello Chad,
I forgot to add something to my post of 5 October 2019. The 1911 census I mention was signed Elizabeth Rusholme, ie Bessie.
It will be good for you to visit Llandudno and see all the places for yourself. My recommendation would be to prepare a list of what you want to do and the information required so you can make the best use of your visit.
In your previous post I think you mentioned trying to make contact with descendants of Pierce Jones to find out more on Annie Maria Kirk, nee Jones. The line of Elizabeth/Bessie is a dead end as there is no surviving issue for her. There must be descendants of Pierce Jones living in the Llandudno area. I can look at some of the others which do you think is the most promising? Another possibility would be for you to contact The North Wales Weekly news and ask them to print a letter from you requesting information on any relatives of Pierce Jones, or his children.
I noticed that Anthony G M Jones, son of Richard Benjamin Jones, married in 1961. That was to Roberta Walker and in Aled registration district in Denbighshire. They appear to have had children. They should be alive today.
Helig
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Hi Helig.
Richard B Jones and his wife Jane had no children of there own only an adopted daughter Doris.
Doris married Maurice Evans who was later Rector of Corwen and I would think they are their children.
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Hi Hugo,
Seeing the tractor in the bottom photo reminds me of another relative I know of who was part of RNLI Llandudno.
In the late1970s/early1980s he was a cousin , John, lived in Dinas Road. he was the tractor driver. I remember him showing my 2 boys over a new tractor on the prom. It was the first one with a cab that had an escape hatch in the roof. Don't think he liked the idea of trying to exit it in a hurry.
Trouble is I can not remember his surname, all I remember is he was either a builder/roofer/painter as he carried out a few jobs for my parents when they lived at West Shore.
Perhaps someone on here might remember him.
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Hmm, I got the information on Richard B Jones from Chad's tree on Ancestry. He has Richard B Jones and Olive Harrison as parents of Anthony G M Jones born 1941, died 2011. Maybe Chad could let us know how he arrived at this entry.
Helig.
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Mull, I looked at the Street Indexes that were available for Dinas Road but they did not have the occupations of the people listed so I was unable to establish exactly where your relative lived and his surname
Without a surname it was impossible to find your relative. In the street were four John's listed and they had different surnames such as Cooper, Walton, Williams and Gregory.
In addition there were a few who just had the initial J and they could have been John's too.
Sorry I couldn't help but hopefully someone may know the John from the RNLI who lives in Dinas Road.
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Hi Hugo,
Thanks for looking . Hope someone involved with the lifeboat has a good memory, or access to any Llandudno records. He would have been in his late 50s in 1977/80 time.
Hi Helig,
Hope Chad sees this as he has definitely got the wrong Richard with this one.
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This photo appeared in today's edition of the NWWN and I thought that you might like to see it.
Can you recognise Pierce Jones in the photo Mull?
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Hi Hugo,
That's the photo my lad sent me off the Facebook page and I was unable to relay on to you.
I think he is the 7th person from the left when comparing him to other photos I have seen.
See the 2 girls standing on the ledge !
What was the article in NWWN ?
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Every week old photos are posted on the NWWN under the heading Nostalgia but there was no story behind the photo it just said courtesey of Facebook
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Now I know that somewhere in the old family pics there was a post card from I thought Christmas island. I will look around. Could never figure out where it all fit in!
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Thanks by the way for pointing out my error on the tree! Here are picks of the surviving post card we have:
Is this then William Rusholme (Bessie's husband)?
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The back
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Negative view
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Negative of back. I believe this is signed from Will.
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Hello Chad,
These are very interesting. I cannot decipher the writing on the one from Christmas Island. Have you managed to transcribe this please?
Helig
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It looks like he is writing to his sister J.Jones. Saying hello to mother and father. Your bro Will.. I just can't find the connection. I hope it isn't too obvious but my eyes cross sometimes after looking at this stuff too long.
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Hi. I wanted to introduce myself on this thread, which I found by accident yesterday . And I have subsequently joined the forum so I can contribute to the discussion of the various descendents of Pierce and Jane Anne Jones of Tan Y Wal, LLandudno. I too am a direct descendant. Chad at the start of this thread had listed the 9 children of Pierce and Jane Jones. But missing from that list is the 10th of their children, Mary Jane Jones DOB 24/08/1893. She married John Charles Calvert on 1st July 1920 in Llandudno. And together they had seven children:
VERA EMILY CALVERT born 23/5/1923
EDNA GLENYS CALVERT born 7/10/1924
GLADYS JANE born 01/07/1927
BERYL HILDA born 18/08/1929
DORIS CALVERT born 28/12/1931
MAY ENID born 23/07/1933
JOHN CHARLES born 18/05/1935
My mother was Doris Calvert. Sadly Mary Jane Calvert (nee Jones) died on 9th May 1941, aged 48. The children were aged between 4 years and 18 years. Richard Benjamin Jones and his wife, Elizabeth Jane Jones (nee Edwards) who were uncle and aunt to the children offered to adopt Doris, aged 9. Doris went to live with them and officially adopted her on 8th January 1942. So my brothers and I knew Richard (everyone called him uncle Dick) and his wife as our grandparents, but we also knew that my mother had five sisters and a brother. They have all now sadly passed away, but before Auntie Gladys passed away (she was the last one to survive) she dictated her memories of growing up in Llandudno and the hardships that they all endured. Yesterday my cousin sent me over her memoirs to read, and I will quote this one section you may all find interesting:
"My mam'.s family were local to Llandudno and there were many of them. The Pierce Jones, Tan Wall, Aunty Kitty, Aunty Bessie, Uncle Dick, Uncle Percy, Uncle Harry, Aunty Lell. My mam was the youngestin the family, had the most children and also the poorest of them all. My Uncle Percy was the Coxwain of the Llandudno Life Boat 1939?? Uncle Dick he was Richard Benjamin, and was very well known in Llandudno. He worked for the Post Office from a very young man. Uncle Harry another brother of Mam's lived in the next street to us and his wife Aunty Susie. They had 2 sons much older than us, John Henry and Richard Jones. Both were choir boys in church. One of them went to the Navy and was a petty officer and John was in the army as an officer. They were a lovely family. My Mam had 3 brothers and 4 sisters all gone now.
Now there is a big monument in Llandudno by the Pier and this monument has the names of 2 of my cousins who where in the 1939-1945 war. I think both were in the Navy, Glyn Jones and Gwilym jones who were twins, were killed at sea coming home. Both were lovely boys, Uncle Percy was their dad, Mams brother. Im trying to remember most of my family, well relations, cousins to us. Cousin Glyn had red hair, Gwilym had dark hair. My family the Calverts, were so humble, very poor, but happy, had nothing only each other, no Mam, but life was so different for us seven.
Memories keep coming back and the kindness of our Mam's family and neighbours stays with me. "
Auntie Gladys dictated this about five years ago, and I am not sure how accurate her recall is, but I am hoping that many of you posting on here will find it interesting.
I certainly remember many stories about the 'Tan Wal' family growing up, and also have some photos , which I will try and share. I have not researched a family tree or anything similar, but I looked up Pierce Jones yesterday to see if I could find anything about him being a Coxswain to the LLandudno Lifeboat in 1939 and it let me to this chain of exchanges on the Forum, and I realised that I may both be distantly related to some of the people commentating on here, and also that I may have some photos and information that you would all find useful. I am really looking forward to hearing more about you and honouring my mums family and particularly the Pierce Jones family from Tan Y Wal, who sound pretty remarkable really. Anyway I am going to attach a photo of Mary Jane Jones, my maternal grandmother, who I never met, but who seemed to have been very loved by all her family. I look forward to hearing more from you all . Annie
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Hello and welcome Annie, glad you could join in.
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Thank you very much for posting all that information Annie, it was fascinating and very interesting to read. I have no connection with the Jones family but your article brought many memories back.
I know that Richard Benjamin Jones worked for the Post Office and lived on the estate but did he live in Conway Road? The reason I ask this is because I have a friend called Richard Jones and we played football together for the Llandudno Youth Club. My memory may be playing tricks but I think that Richard had a younger brother who I think was called John Henry.
If I'm correct they may have been named after the twins that died in the war
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Hi Hugo
I certainly remember that there used to be a lot of talk about 'John Henry' when I was very young. Taid LLandudno ( as we called Richard Benjamin Jones, or Dick the Post as he was known locally) certainly was a big football fan. But as you can imagine, I was only 10 years old when he died in 1968 and for the whole of my life he had lived at Sunbeams, Howard Place Llandudno, so I don;t know whether he had previously lived in Conway Road, but he may well have done, There seemed to be a lot of John's in the family. There was John Henry, John Owen, and a lot of the Johns were sometimes called Jack too. I am pleased it brought back memories for you. He was such a kind and caring man, we all loved him very dearly - do you think there were more children in the family after Mary Jane Jones?
Many thanks
Annie
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Hi Annie,
Thank you for posting this information , now just trying to take it all in.
I can confirm Uncle Dick was my nain's brother and did live in Sunbeams , 8 Howard Place. I can not say when they moved there, all my childhood in the late 1940's that is were they lived.
Hugo has done a lot of searching for me and found pictures of Uncle Percy but according to the RNLI record he is not shown as the Coxswain , although I had been told from very young that he was.
If you are looking for more information go to Grace Ellen Jones who was my nain.
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Hi Mull.
Was Grace Ellen they one they always called, Lel? Growing up I remember Nain and Taid (So Richard Benjamin and his wife Elizabeth Jane Jones) always referred to Auntie Lel, auntie Bessie etc, so I'm assuming the Lel is from the Ellen in Grace Ellen? I think I may have some family photos with her in, if that is the case, I will take a look at the thread now and thank you
Annie
I've corrected the original post and deleted the extra one.
Ian
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Annie
This may be a pure coincidence but there was a locomotive driver at Llandudno Junction called John Cavert - the day and month of his birth match but not the year - 1936 rather than 1935.
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Hi, that would be John Calvert, the youngest of all the Calverts. He lived in the junction and drove the trains. So that will be him! Auntie Gladys did not remember all the dates correctly. I think Uncle John was the driver of the train that took the queen from Llandudno to Prince Charles' investiture in Caernarfon, - this is what Auntie Gladys remembers, but not sure if that is true !
Thank you
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Hi Annie, thank you for posting that info regarding Richard Benjamin as it confirms that he was not the Postman that I remembered from the estate
Although I was teenage friends with Richard and John Henry Jones who lived in Conway Road Llandudno I never knew their parents.
Richard was born about 1945 and his brother was a few years younger.
When Richard left school he also started working for the GPO but I think that he worked on the counter at the main Post Office.
I've attached a couple of recent photos of Tan Y Wal for you
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Hi Hugo,
When did you take those photos ?
Looks as though work about to start, tarmac looks new.
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Hi Mull, I took those photos on the 30th April 2021 but I haven't been up there since.
The access to the site is much bigger than when I last went up there but I saw no sign of any building activity going on then.
I'll pop up there again soon and post some more photos after I have been there
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Hi Hugo
Have you noticed that my Auntie Gladys in the memoirs I quoted said that Uncle Harry (one of the ten children of Pierce Jones and Jane Anne of Tan Y Wal) and his wife Susie, had two sons called Richard and John Henry. Of course I don't know anything about them, but I wonder if they were the teenagers with whom you were friends? I also have a recollection of a John Henry, married to Ceinwen, who lived in Maelgwyn Road (in the 1960s this would have been).
Thanks for the recent photos of Tan Y Wal. I never went there as a child, I just heard numerous references to it. One of my distinct memories is that everyone used to comment that my elder brother had the 'Tan Y Wal' walk. I think this referred to his gait - and apparently Uncle Percy had this same 'walk' as did Richard Benjamin. It would only be a 15 minute drive for me to go to Penrhynside and look for Tan Y wal, and this whole thread has made me more curious to go and find the house/cottage and also look for the graves mentioned earlier. I live on Anglesey, so it would not take long.
And thanks to Mull for the tip off about reading through the Grace Ellen thread which I have now done. It has been quite fascinating to see the references to the family and to my parents Maurice and Doris. I also enjoyed seeing the photos of Mull's family. I distinctly remember Myfanwy and Gwennie. I know we did meet up with them, possibly at Sunbeams. I have photos of them in the back garden on Sunbeams Howard Place LLandudno. I shall dig them out.
Annie
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Hi Chad.
I found some photos, I have kept ever since Nain and Taid passed away. Many of them are unlabelled and I don't know who they are, though some I can guess. Anyway, there are a few of 'Kirk' labelled. Here is one with writing on the back, which I am posting too. Hope it is of interest.
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William Kirk 1928
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Hi Annie, if you are thinking of a trip to Penrhynside it'll take you a lot longer than 15 minutes. I drove from the Bangor area along the A55 yesterday and the road works there have a 40 mph limit and I believe that they also have averaging speed cameras too.
Anyway if you do go there bear in mind that parking in the village is a nightmare, When I drive there from the top of Penrhyn Hill I take the first right turn and there are a few parking bays just after the turning. Tan Y Wal in Bryn Gwynt Lane is just a short distance uphill and take the left fork to Tan Y Wal.
I had the pleasure of meeting Mull and his wife in Llandudno a few years ago and we drove to Tan Y Wal and had a good look around the property. We then went to the Glanwydden Baptist Cemetery and I showed them the Grave of Pierce Jones and his family and also the grave of John Jones ( Pierce's father ) I've attached a photo of John Jones grave but I must have lost the one I took of Pierce's
Mull told me an interesting story of when he was a young boy. He was taken to a relative in Denness Place and the relative was a tractor driver for the RNLI and I think Mull got to sit on the tractor in the Lifeboat Station. Now by coincidence there was an article in the local paper about Glyn Jones a local butcher who also happened to drive the Lifeboat tractor. This Glyn Jones is not the person who Mull saw as Glyn was too young at the time.
Glyn was a well known character and my brothers knew him well and that he did live in Denness Place at one time. Was Glyn's father that Lifeboat tractor driver or not? I don't even know Glyn's father's name so it's another Jones mystery to solve
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Hello to everyone, it has been a bit. Annie, so nice speaking with you the other day, what a fascinating conversation about our relatives and the past. So glad you found Mull as well as I know he is also a direct relative. I do appreciate the picture you posted , yes, the William Kirk in that picture was my great grandfather. I was able to show that picture to his 96 year old daughter who was thrilled and amazed to see that people care enough to connect and share their old photos especially since she had never seen this particular photo of her father. I too have been reading through the old threads and adding names to our tree in an effort to work with you to find as many direct descendants as we can and possibly get a reunion organized. The gentleman on this site have always gone way above and beyond, thanks again everyone for all your help and information. I have been looking to see what other old Jones family pics I might have and I was amazed at your collection. I believe Mull had some of the originals of the copies I had as well. We should make it a point to share the pics, maybe we can put a few more names with faces together. I am interested to see how many Jones relatives are left in the area. I remember way back someone said they were contacted by a Jones relative but then something happened and I am not sure who they were. Mull, out of curiosity, do you have any pics of you can share, I think you mentioned one of Bessie. I am hoping to stumble upon a different pic of Annie Maria and realize people might have them and not realize who she is. Anyways, excited to keep trading info and pics Annie! Looking forward to our next Skype session! Chad
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I remember way back someone said they were contacted by a Jones relative but then something happened and I am not sure who they were.
That was me Chad and by coincidence I was contacted by a friend this week who brought me up to date with the situation. Apparently this Jones relative was born in Tan Y Wal but no contact was made with him because he was seriously ill and sadly he has since died.
Before he died he passed the details on to his brother but the brother is a bit elusive so my friend will make some enquiries and see what information he can get
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Parking in the village wasn't very good when I visited it today to take some more photos of Tan Y Wal. The original cottage at the top of the garden looked nice but no further development has taken place since my last visit.
When I got home I looked at the Planning application and it is for two modern houses but it is not without problems and one being the access to the site but there are others too
It makes a mockery of the Planning rules at the CCBC when they don't even conduct site visits before passing applications for planning
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Hi again
Thanks for the photos and info on Tan Y Wal Hugo. I plan to visit hopefully next week and have a look at Tan Y wal and the cemetry where many of the family are buried and visit the graves. I think the road works have now decreased on the A55 between Bangor and Llandudno, so hopefully it will be a smooth run.
I have in the interim both spoken on Skype to Chad, and also shared a lot of family photos I have with him. Fortunately I kept a lot of the old photos and identified that some of the photos I have were sent by William Kirk from Canada and America to my grandparents , Richard Benjamin and Elizabeth Jane Jones. some of the photos had short explanations and names on the reverse and the minute I saw the name William/Billy Kirk on the back, I knew that they were of Chad's relations and that they should be shared with him. I have today sent them in the post to Chad. I have a lot of the photos that have been shared on here (of the Pierce Jones family) in my possession, and it is strange to think that at some point in the past , these photos were circulated amongst the family members. A lot of my difficulty has been in identifying who is who in the photos, but thanks to this forum, I have been able to identify some of the people who are clearly part of the Pierce JOnes family.
As Chad mentioned I have been thinking that maybe at some point in the future it would be nice to arrange for all those who are descending from Pierce JOnes and Jane Anne Jones (the eight surviving siblings of the ten children) to meet up in Llandudno if they so wished. So far it looks like we have found the direct descendents of Grace Ellen Jones (via Mull) of Anne Maria JOnes (via Chad) of Richard Benjamin Jones and Mary Jane JOnes (via me). I think the eldest daughter Catherine JOnes (who married ? Marshall) eventually went to Australia, and I think my parents went to Australia in 1984 and visited them in Adelaide. I also have a photo from Adelaide of a young woman who has sent it to Uncle Dick and Auntie Jane, signed your loving niece Gertie. I plan to see if I can find their address there in the coming weeks. I think Bessie married (Mr Rusholme) and eventually went to Margate Kent, as I have photos of Richard Benjamin and Elizabeth Jane JOnes visiting there. It seems there were two daughters and the family moved to Chard , Somerset at some point, so may be worth trying to find out whether there are any relations surviving from Bessie's two daughters. Uncle Pierce (Uncle Percy), married Harriet and lived in Llandudno, they look to have had five children, two girls, a boy and twin boys, One of the twins sadly died during World Ward 2 (Gwilym) but might be worth trying to find out about the descendants of the other four children. Uncle Harry (Henry ) and his wife Susie, also lived in Llandudno and had two boys, John Henry and Richard. I wonder if their descendants are still in the Llandudno area? So that is all eight children, of Pierce and Jane Anne Jones and hopefully we may provide a forum for those who wish to be in touch about the family history and maybe even meet up at some point in the future, could be made possible.
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Hi Annie,
Hope your trip to Penrhynside goes well. Just to give you information on Tan Y Wal.
On the photos, the original cottage is to the right hand side of the chimney and to the left of it is an modern extension. When Hugh Hughes and Nain ( Grace Ellen ) lived there the extension area was a single story Washhouse and toilet. To the left of it was a passge way leading round to the back of the property. To the left of the passage was Uncle Hugh's Cobblers workshop with a window in front of the workbench overlooking the view Rhos on Sea/Colwyn Bay and along the coast. When I visited a year or 2 back with Hugo several large trees had been allowed to grow obstructing some of the view.
Uncle Hugh's workshop was something of a meeting place for some of the older men from the village. I think he and some of the others used to chew tobacco and and were accurate at spitting, I can still hear it sizzling on the stove now. Must have been well known as Hugo who I don't think had been there in the 1950/60 had heard about it .
Got a a lot going on at present so unable to look up some of the pictures I have. As soon as I get a chance I will be in touch.
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Hi, I would like to introduce myself. I am Paul Pary my grandfather was, Glyn Jones who sadly passed away in the early 80's Gwilym jones who was my grandfather's twin was killed in WW2 on RMS Loconia 12th Sept 1942, serving with the RAF. Glyn was RN during the war serving on a mine sweeper, I have his war medals.
Glyn (granddad) was married to Daisy Jones, and they had 3 sons Barry, Colin and Bryan and two daughter Rosemarry and my mother Janet. Only Barry Rose and Janet are still with us. Granddad (Glyn) was a plaster and a practical joker. and enjoyed a drink mostly in what he called Church the west shore club, as small man in stature with Red hair and I was told his twin Gwilym was dark hair and 6ft tall.
Pierce from my mother's memory her Taid was, was a strict T total person with strong links to the Baptist church and mostly spoke in Welsh. My Grandad was born in 1913 with Gwilym however their mother died from Alcoholism and pierce re-married, and I am told had another sone called David Jones?
My Granddad was called Tan Y Wal as a nickname as were a lot of the Jones in those days from their distinctive nose and eye shape and also its where they came from.
Attached is a news paper clipping of Great Uncle Gwilym another of Glyn during WW2 also my Mum and then in the Army many years ago now.
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Gwilym
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Glyn Jones RN WW2
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Hi Paul
I too am descended from the Pierce Jones Tan Wal family. My grandmother was the youngest born to the family Mary Jane Jones. My mother was Doris. She was the fifth of seven children born to Mary Jane Jones. Her older sister Gladys would often refer to your great grandfather as Uncle Percy. She would talk with great pride about him as he was apparently a coxswain for the Llandudno Lifeboat. She also used to talk about the fact that he had twin boys called Gwilym and Glyn and that one was dark haired and one was red haired. She also said that Gwilym was sadly killed during the war, and his name is on the war memorial in Llandudno. I remember too how the family would always make reference to the Jones Tan Wal distinctive features - the nose, eyes and also the 'walk'. There are two other members who contribute on here who are also descendents from this family - Mull who is the grandchild of Grace Ellen Jones (whom they all called Auntie Lell) and Chad in America. He is descended from Annie Maria - and I remembered how the family would make reference to a sister (Annie Maria) who had a brute of a husband and that when she died as a young woman, rather than live with him and his new wife the two very young boys stowed away on a boat and went to Canada to join the Mountain Police. Chad I do believe is a descendent of one of those two boys and has managed to do a lot of work on the family tree. So nice to see your contribution and to hear about Gwilym and Glyn and that you are descended from Glyn and also Pierce Jones was your grandfather. Maybe your mother will remember Mary Jane Jones, they youngest, who married John Calvert, they had six daughters and then a son. They lived at 21 Brooke Street in Llandudno and Mary Jane died quite young too (aged 41) not long after their son (John) was born.
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Hi Annie
lovely to hear from you. My granddad Glyn did speak of a relative in the states, from memory he said he was located in Salt Lake City? I will ask my Mum about your mother. I was told that Percy (pierce) remarried after my Granddads mother passed away and had another son called David a lot younger than Glyn & Gwilym, however this is only word mouth. My Granddad never spoke about Gwilym his twin, just said he was lost at sea. However, my Granddad quite often called my Gwilym, as I struck a resemblance in his eyes to him.
Are you. still local to Llandudno? I moved away at 16 joined the forces, then worked for the Home Office based in London and have only just last year returned to Penryn Bay were ironically. I can see Tal Y Wal from my house, and also, I am told by my mother a Great Auntie Bessie I believe lived on Glan Y Mor Rd as a dress maker, where I now reside! Spooky
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Hi Paul and Annie, it's very interesting following the Tan Y Wal history as I went up there with Mull and his wife a few years ago. Mull is related to the Jones family and used to visit his relatives there when he was younger
Tan Y Wal was granted planning permission in recent years but when I last visited the place nothing had happened to it apart from a wide tarmac drive being laid into the garden
It was good to see the name on the wall too as it had been on the gate previously but has long since gone
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Hi in regards to this
Mull told me an interesting story of when he was a young boy. He was taken to a relative in Denness Place and the relative was a tractor driver for the RNLI and I think Mull got to sit on the tractor in the Lifeboat Station. Now by coincidence there was an article in the local paper about Glyn Jones a local butcher who also happened to drive the Lifeboat tractor. This Glyn Jones is not the person who Mull saw as Glyn was too young at the time.
Glyn was a well known character and my brothers knew him well and that he did live in Denness Place at one time. Was Glyn's father that Lifeboat tractor driver or not? I don't even know Glyn's father's name so it's another Jones mystery to solve.
Number 4 Denis Place, just off Trinity Ave was my granddads house Glyn Jones (twin brother of Gwilym killed in WW2) My Granddads was a builder mainly a Master Plasterer and well know practical joker. His farther was Pierce Jones and worked for the RNLI from 1900 to 1952. I am told Pierce was a very physically well built man T Total and very religious. I am also informed his first wife past away due to consumption around 1915? (alcoholic) and Pierce remarried and had another son David Jones whom my mother had a vague memory of, however my Grandfather Glyn apparently did get on that well with Pierce as my Grandad liked a drink! (This is all word say) Also my Grandad never spoke of his brother just said he was lost at sea. Hope this helps
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This is just an observation but in the early days of the 20th century when people died of consumption it usually meant that they had died of TB, so perhaps it wasn't alcoholism?
What does consumption mean in medical terms?
Tuberculosis, also known as consumption, is a disease caused by bacteria that usually attacks the lungs, and at the turn of the 20th century, the leading cause of death in the United States.
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It could be my mistake I heard my Grandads Mother past from Consumption which I took as being an alcoholic.
My Grandad married my Grandmother Daisy Jones from Mansfield they had:
Barry Jones, Colin Jones, Brian Jones, Rosemary Jones and my mother the youngest by ten tears Janet Jones and all resided at Denis Place. The house is still occupied by a Jones my Cousin Sharon Jones the daughter of Colin.
I know as children Glyn and Gwilym live in Jubilee street which is the town end of trinity Avenue Llandudno. I also recall my Granddad talking about a cousin or some other relative that lived in the states (salt lake city) This again is a hazy memory.
Glyn served on mine sweeps during the war and Gwilym was in the RAF in North Africa )his name is on the memorial at El-alamian as well as Llandudno) and was lost at sea on a ship called Loctania (pardon spelling) torpedoed by a U boat of the canary's and then strafed by the US air Force as the U Boat called for help from the Italian navy to rescue survivors as the ship was carrying civilians as well as 800 Italian POW also the water was shark infested. There was a film made about it and certainly the ships fate is on You tube.
Grandad (Glyn) passed away in about 1981 and my Grandmother few years later. I recall my Grandad like to frequent the West Shore Club (now gone)
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Paul, I've attached a photo of Glyn Jones from the local paper for you to see. Glyn drove the RNLI tractor at some time but do you know what Glyn's father's name was and if his father also drove the tractor for the RNLI?
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I will ask my Mum she may know and let you know
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Consumption is what used to be the medical term for what we now know as TB:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuberculosis