Author Topic: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?  (Read 2670955 times)

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Offline DaveR

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Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #3240 on: November 27, 2012, 08:10:49 am »
I don't have to - I'm not the one wheeling out figures...  WWW WWW WWW
No membership figures for organisations that love modern buildings then?  :P

Offline Nemesis

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Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #3241 on: November 27, 2012, 08:53:16 am »
One day there may be a blue plaque on that house!  ;D

They are orange in Wales !! ;D
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Offline Ian

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Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #3242 on: November 27, 2012, 04:32:02 pm »
Quote
   
Quote
I don't have to - I'm not the one wheeling out figures...  WWW WWW WWW
No membership figures for organisations that love modern buildings then?  :P

Oh, indeed there are. In fact, there are so many lovers of new-build, that there are a huge number of sites devoted to them such as Modern Architecture. But the lovers of the ancient and decrepit have to have paid membership subs' lists , since they need every penny to keep the crumbling relics from falling down. Modern build lovers are so plentiful they need no membership lists  D)
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

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Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #3243 on: November 27, 2012, 07:27:40 pm »
Modern build lovers are so plentiful they need no membership lists  D)
No figures then, Ian?  8)

Offline DaveR

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Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #3244 on: November 27, 2012, 07:28:46 pm »
How very sad...  :(

A YOUNG woman who was plucked from the sea, has died in hospital. The woman was found in the water at Angel Bay near Llandudno’s Little Orme. She was taken to Ysbyty Gwynedd in Bangor.

Llandudno RNLI all weather lifeboat crew and an RAF Valley helicopter from 22 Squadron were scrambled at about 10.45am.
RNLI spokesman Alan Sharp said: “We had a report from two dog walkers on the Little Orme that there was a person in the water in Angel Bay at the foot of the Little Orme.
“We were getting ready to launch and at the same time the rescue helicopter from 22 Squadron was also called out.
“The helicopter recovered the person from the sea.”
A post mortem is due to be carried out soon.

Offline Ian

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Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #3245 on: November 27, 2012, 09:32:56 pm »
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No figures then, Ian?  8)

Oh, certainly.  let me see... UK population: 62,641,000 less 3,700.000 who are so interested in castles, the preservation of our natural heritage - which is what most of the NT's work is about,  and estates and - oh yes, the odd old house they actually pay a membership fee, that leaves 58, 941,000 less - say, 20,000 000 (those who have no interest whatsoever in anything), that leaves us with 38, 941,000 who clearly enjoy modern houses and buildings. Something of a decided majority, wouldn't you say?

 L0L
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

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Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #3246 on: November 27, 2012, 09:35:24 pm »
38, 941,000 who clearly enjoy modern houses and buildings.
Where is your evidence to support this assertion?  :P

Offline Michael

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Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #3247 on: November 27, 2012, 09:46:51 pm »
   Hey, its O.K. for us lesser members to have a scrap between us ---- but now our administrators are having a go. Is it catching?

Offline Ian

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Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #3248 on: November 27, 2012, 09:49:18 pm »
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    38, 941,000 who clearly enjoy modern houses and buildings.

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Where is your evidence to support this assertion?  :P

I'll happily show you mine if you show me yours...

On a slightly more serious note, there are a couple of things to remember.  The NT is not primarily about old buildings.  Most of it is dedicated to buying land, such as the Carneddau, so they can be used by the walking public in perpetuity, so you can't infer from their membership numbers what proportion - if any - love old houses.  But there's another point:  older houses are frequently constructed from quite toxic materials. You might think ancient bricks and mortar are sturdier than modern materials, but at least they're a lot safer, and, actually, probably stronger. Finally, if people loved old houses as much as you suggest, one has to wonder why new houses not only outsell older properties but are also significantly more expensive to buy.  You're the market-forces apostle: surely, if old was preferred., new houses would  not only sell in smaller numbers, but also for lower prices.  Unless I'm missing something...

 :D
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline DaveR

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Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #3249 on: November 27, 2012, 10:13:50 pm »
Whilst the NT may or may not be primarily about old buildings, I'm sure very many of its members become so in order to obtain free entry to its old buildings. Obviously, entry to NT owned land is almost always free.

Not sure about your safer materials point, either. There was lead in paint, certainly, but what else? I'm not sure how modern buildings can be sturdier, when they don't tend to last very long. How many buildings from the 60s and 70s do we see getting demolished or having to be rebuilt? Ysbyty Glan Clwyd is a great example of this. And, as for Venue Cymru.......  &shake&

I imagine new houses outsell older ones purely because of increased availability for sale. After all, a street of newly built houses will all need to be sold by the Developer, whereas a street of old houses may only have a sale every few years. I'm not sure where you get your stats for new houses being 'significantly more expensive to buy'. Surely, 101 factors influence the price?

What I can tell you is that I did a Rightmove search for properties for sale in Colwyn Bay, purely to see how old the most expensive property was:
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION^353

The result was an Edwardian property on the market for £995,000.

I tried the same search for Llandudno:
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION^824&insId=3&googleAnalyticsChannel=buying

The result was an Arts & Crafts property for £795,000.

 :P



Offline Merddin Emrys

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Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #3250 on: November 27, 2012, 11:53:54 pm »
I can settle this! I am a NT member (for the free entry and they do a great job!) and usually find new buildings look ghastly! Some people want new houses, some prefer old, depends what they want, we need secure off road undercover parking for at least 3 classic cars, so that guides our choice, currently a 1964 built property, nice size garden which you don't usually get with a new build! I see on the tv many problems with new houses, one being why on earth are they built on flood plains?
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Offline DaveR

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Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #3251 on: November 28, 2012, 08:15:30 am »
 $good$

Offline DaveR

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Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #3252 on: November 28, 2012, 08:16:24 am »
Has anyone else noticed that the underground Toilets at Bog Island have been closed for a month at least? They were flooded during the spell of heavy rain then and have never reopened.

Offline Ian

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Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #3253 on: November 28, 2012, 08:19:27 am »
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I'm not sure how modern buildings can be sturdier, when they don't tend to last very long. How many buildings from the 60s and 70s do we see getting demolished or having to be rebuilt?

Given the strength of feeling about this I was surprised how deeply one has to dig to get facts. They're out there, but not easy to find.

Some years ago I was involved in a project to raise the roof on a 17th C building some two feet. One characteristic about older properties was that - in the main - they were actually smaller in some significant ways. We used a local builder and I managed to get a substantial sum from the Lottery folk to fund the project. It was in a sensitive area of the Snowdonia NP, so we had to be extremely careful. I was on site almost every day, so I saw the entire process, from start to finish.  We reused the slates from the original building because the cost of new slates is exorbitant, but they still make for the best roofing material after reinforced concrete, which - incidentally - the Romans used quite a bit.

And here's a point: yes - there was a fair bit of jerry-building in the '50s and '60s, which resulted in a lot of demolition, but that wasn't always because they 'didn't seem to last very long'. The '50s and '60s were a time of rapid building - partly because our continental neighbours had spent a large part of the '40s rearranging much of our older housing stock for us - and it was almost inevitable that the pace of construction alone would lead to premature demolition in many cases.  The '70s, I seem to remember, were also a period in which the government were only slowly getting to grips with building standards, following some accidents, and bans were introduced on hardwoods from abroad, as we were starting to do the same to our far Eastern cousins' forests as our Teutonic pals had done for our nascent construction industry, but on a purely statistical basis I suspect that many older buildings also fell down or didn't last too long,  It's just that we only see the ones that stayed up.

I also agree that some modern constructions take a little time to get used to but there's also a psychological reason why we seem to adore the old and mistrust the new. Partly this is down to our memories, which store experiences in a way that preserve positive aspects and eliminate or transpose the negative. That's partly why advertisers play the nostalgia card so often.  It's also interesting to look at current comments about now-listed buildings.  Often, old buildings were described by current commentators as 'ugly and lacking in any architectural merit' when they were first built, and these same edifices now attract adulation.

To return to my original point, however, we fund it was easier to demolish the 17th C building entirely before rebuilding it in its original appearance with the raised roof.  Inside, it was extremely modern, but outside, it still looked like the original cattle shed. Snowdonia NP authority were delighted, but what we had done - in effect - was build a new property, but with apparently the same exterior.  We'd used uPVC double glazing and masses of insulation but it looked virtually identical to the original.

I wouldn't want to return to living in an old house. I would have no objection to the outside looking similar, provided I could enjoy the benefits of decent, energy-efficient double glazing but - like the ancient monuments I enjoy visiting in my capacity as a life member of the National Trust - I wouldn't want to live in 'em.


Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Yorkie

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Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #3254 on: November 28, 2012, 08:47:44 am »
The worst building I think the country has seen is the so called "unity" or "industrialised" construction of housing stock during the 1960's.  This was the system of quick build using concrete units made in a factory, such as the Skarne method that emanated from Scandinavia.  Apart from housing it was also used on multi-storey flats which were later considered as anti-social housing.   Most of this type of building stopped when there was a collapse of the Ronan Point flats in 1968 due to a gas explosion.   

This building method started to show signs of deterioration long before its expected life span, with rusting steelwork and disintegrating concrete.

Some Unity houses are still available on the market but generally only to cash buyers who can afford to virtually rebuild them. 
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