Three Towns Forum

The Local => Three Towns Policing Issues => Topic started by: DaveR on July 27, 2011, 01:59:08 pm

Title: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: DaveR on July 27, 2011, 01:59:08 pm
A place for Members to interact with local Police regarding matters in the local area. Please keep comments on-topic.
Title: Re: Police News & Announcements
Post by: Bri Roberts on July 27, 2011, 04:14:05 pm
Welcome back, Mike.

I for one have missed your previous regular contributions and I guess so have many more members.

Title: Re: Police News & Announcements
Post by: Trojan on July 27, 2011, 09:35:05 pm
Welcome back, Mike.

I for one have missed your previous regular contributions and I guess so have many more members.


Please could all Members post their comments/questions etc in the separate 'Policing Issues Discussion' thread and not post in this thread please.
Title: Re: Police News & Announcements
Post by: Pendragon on July 28, 2011, 01:18:42 am
oops snigger snigger xx
Title: Re: Police News & Announcements
Post by: Trojan on July 28, 2011, 02:08:49 am
oops snigger snigger xx

Please could all Members post their comments/questions etc in the separate 'Policing Issues Discussion' thread and not post in this thread please.  

$smack$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Pendragon on July 28, 2011, 06:01:33 pm
Regarding the Police open day what a good idea  ;D if my lads were younger I would definitely bring them along.  Slightly concerned about the * Have your fingerprints taken and climb inside a real police car will fingerprints be discarded or kept on record? can you have mug shots done too  :laugh:

Nah joking aside its an excellent idea Mike and I hope it does well.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: PC Mike Smith on July 28, 2011, 06:59:29 pm
Ha!
Yes Pendragon, i agree the wording of the Fingerprint part could have been a bit better..
What happens is the Children can have their fingerprint done which is then converted into a Keyring for them to take away..
They can also get in the Police cars and control the lights, radio and sirens etc...
It is planned to be an Annual event.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on July 28, 2011, 07:52:16 pm
It's not an urgent matter but do you have the contact details of the Community Officers for Colwyn Heights?    I believe that the officers have changed in recent years and don't have the present contact numbers.
Nice to see you back on the forum Mike.   $good$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Trojan on July 28, 2011, 07:53:34 pm
They can also get in the Police cars and control the lights, radio and sirens etc...

I just hope little "Johnny" doesn't put an APB out over the radio and leads officers on a wild goose chase.  8)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: PC Mike Smith on July 28, 2011, 09:20:18 pm
Hi Hugo
The Neighbourhood Policing Team and contact details for Colwyn Heights are as follows

Community Beat Manager
PC Lynette Farley
Lynette.Farley@nthwales.pnn.police.uk
07896172675 

Neighbourhood Policing Sergeant
Sgt. Andy Kirkham
Andrew.Kirkham@nthwales.pnn.police.uk
07791278422 

Community support officer
PCSO Karen Bennion
Karen.Bennion2@nthwales.pnn.police.uk
07795302086

Hope this helps,

Mike

Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Pendragon on July 29, 2011, 12:56:29 am
Ha!
Yes Pendragon, i agree the wording of the Fingerprint part could have been a bit better..
What happens is the Children can have their fingerprint done which is then converted into a Keyring for them to take away..
They can also get in the Police cars and control the lights, radio and sirens etc...
It is planned to be an Annual event.
Am I right in saying the finger prints taken on the day are done so digitally now and so will remain on a hard drive somewhere?  :roll:  I'm really only wondering and not taking the mic  ;D
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on July 29, 2011, 01:00:41 am
Do you know what?
I would be very happy to have my kids fingerprints kept on a database,
So that if they got up to mischief in future, they would get their come-uppance...

I ain't frightened of ID cards or CCTV either.... only those with something to hide should be.

Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Pendragon on July 29, 2011, 01:09:17 am
Do you know what?
I would be very happy to have my kids fingerprints kept on a database,
So that if they got up to mischief in future, they would get their come-uppance...

I ain't frightened of ID cards or CCTV either.... only those with something to hide should be.


Fester honestly,  I personally think that a hair should be taken from every new born babies head for the sole purpose of DNA proof should such dreadful circumstances occur.  I was only joking at what others have picked up on seriously Matey  ???  I think the open day is an excellent idea.  I've always told both my lads if they get in trouble with the Police then they will spend a night in the cells...if it taught me I'll tell you now it will teach them...........without doubt.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on July 29, 2011, 01:34:05 am
Too true Angie Babes... I learned the hard way to respect the law.

I don't know about you, and I wonder how many Forum members can say the same, but a night in the cells is a bloody long and lonely one... and a sobering experience.  I'm glad I'm an old man now and past all that.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Pendragon on July 29, 2011, 01:46:29 am
Ditto ....... $good$

I thought I was cock of the North..........how wrong was I.
I could go on but I won't.............not today anyway  :roll:
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on July 29, 2011, 08:57:20 am
Quote
I ain't frightened of ID cards or CCTV either.... only those with something to hide should be.

This is the argument always used by those who believe the state should have unlimited and total power to know everything about everyone.  And, just so long as the servants of the state - every civil servant, every police officer, every employee of the government - are paragons of virtue, would never be tempted to use information for their own ends, never lose memory sticks, discs, laptops, leave them on trains, buses, 'planes, boats, libraries, always encrypt every single bit of information, then the system should work just fine. Shortly, unless you take specific steps to refuse, your medical history and details will be available to millions of civil servants, so - as long as you don't mind your neighbours knowing your most intimate details, then let's go ahead and put everyone on a huge database.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Merddin Emrys on July 29, 2011, 10:23:09 am
I've always been dead against identity cards and do not want my dna or fingerprints on any government database, who knows what you could be fitted up for!  The professional criminals will always get around these measures, they just cause hassle for ordinary folk

Trust no one!  aaa.gif
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: PC Mike Smith on July 29, 2011, 10:54:35 am
Pendragon,
the fingerprinting we do with the children are all done using ink pads and paper only.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Trojan on July 29, 2011, 11:07:29 am
Pendragon,
the fingerprinting we do with the children are all done using ink pads and paper only.

Then the children take the papers with their fingerprints home with them as souvenirs.  :D
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Pendragon on July 29, 2011, 11:10:23 am
Good luck with it Mike I hope it goes well.   $good$

If I was a kid I'd like to do some forensic testing, you know like a bit of detective work using the magnetic powder to find out "who done it" (who am I kidding I'd like to do that now)  ;D
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: PC Mike Smith on July 29, 2011, 11:14:45 am
Yes Trojan that is right.the prints are done on a small piece of card which goes into a keyring which the children take home.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Pendragon on July 29, 2011, 11:16:40 am
Could be handy when you want to know who went in the penny jar  ;)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Trojan on July 29, 2011, 11:36:16 am
Let's get some policing issues going!  :)

Mike, how is the force re-structuring that took place in May coming along?

Have there been any noticeable benefits?

With regard to crime statistics, I should think that it's a little early at present to see any noticeable differences?

http://www.north-wales.police.uk/about_us/force_restructure_2011.aspx (http://www.north-wales.police.uk/about_us/force_restructure_2011.aspx)   
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on July 29, 2011, 10:40:42 pm
Do you know what?
I would be very happy to have my kids fingerprints kept on a database,
So that if they got up to mischief in future, they would get their come-uppance...

I ain't frightened of ID cards or CCTV either.... only those with something to hide should be.



Fester, I've got to admire you because you say it as it is.  I'll also go along with Pendragon too.  If there was a DNA data base set up on every one, it would solve a lot of problems in the future.
In fact I'd go one step further and introduce a lie detector test as part of the evidence.  So many millions of pounds are wasted on Court cases by the Legal Profession who appear to be seeking to line their pockets rather than trying to obtain justice.
A simple question that requires a yes or no answer will in the long run save a lot of time and money.
I know that there are those that will argue against this but every one is entitled to their opinion. 
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on July 29, 2011, 11:26:18 pm
Indeed Hugo.
It might not be entirely palatable to have all our details known to a central power...
But, (and its a BIG but)... anyone who argues against the relatively slight risk of our details being misused, are totally underestimating the threat of terrorism for one.  But also the colossal and chronic crimewave being perpetrated by those infiltrating our country from Eastern Europe and Asian countries.

If I thought that someone might misplace my details, but we could stop every crime and terror threat... then I'll take my chances thank you!
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on July 30, 2011, 10:16:59 am
Quote
anyone who argues against the relatively slight risk of our details being misused, are totally underestimating the threat of terrorism for one.  But also the colossal and chronic crimewave being perpetrated by those infiltrating our country from Eastern Europe and Asian countries.

So you see the "threat of terrorism' as being greater than the "the relatively slight risk of our details being misused"?  So, clearly, more lives are ruined through terrorism than data theft and fraud?  You should read the Home Office Crime Stats:

# There were 125 terrorism arrests in the past twelve months,thirty-four per cent of which arrests resulted in a charge, of which only 50% were terrorism related.

In its January 2011 report the NFA estimates that fraud cost the UK around £38.4 billion in 2009 - an average of £765 for each adult member of the UK population.

Convictions for fraud last year alone were 767,000.

Sounds to me like Fraud affects a lot more people.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on July 30, 2011, 10:21:01 am
Quote
I'd go one step further and introduce a lie detector test as part of the evidence.

There are good reasons why even the USA  is extremely wary about polygraph evidence in most states and we don't allow it at all, Hugo.  It's essentially unreliable, and can be fooled once you know how to do it.  Oh, and Psychopaths and Sociopaths don't register, apparently.  Polygraphs work only if the person being tested is nervous, and that's never going to happen when someone is wrongly accused, of course...  :)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on July 30, 2011, 10:34:58 am
Thanks Mike for giving me the details of the Colwyn Heights Community Police, I have already been in touch regarding a matter that has arisen here.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on July 30, 2011, 11:02:09 am
Quote
I'd go one step further and introduce a lie detector test as part of the evidence.

There are good reasons why even the USA doesn't is extremely wary about polygraph evidence in most states and we don't allow it at all, Hugo.  It's essentially unreliable, and can be fooled once you know how to do it.  Oh, and Psychopaths and Sociopaths don't register, apparently.  Polygraphs work only if the person being tested is nervous, and that's never going to happen when someone is wrongly accused, of course...  :)

Yes, of course it's not 100% reliable but it could be used as circumstantial evidence. If anyone is desperate to prove their innocence why wouldn't they ask for the test.  Experienced Police officers have a knack of detecting the criminal element but it must be frustrating for them when interviewing suspects and know that the suspects are lying through their teeth but unfortunately the Police do not have enough evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the suspect is guilty.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on July 30, 2011, 11:16:00 am
I'm not 100% sure but I seem to remember something about a defendant having his own test done, and using that as part of the defence.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on July 30, 2011, 01:29:05 pm
Ian, not being computer literate, I put I seem to remember into Google and the Institute of Safety in Technical Research came up but then I twigged that you could have meant " isn't there"    :-[
I had heard about Michael Shields from Liverpool who was convicted in Bulgaria of the attempted murder of  someone and later another Liverpool fan admitted to the killing but later withdrew his statement.  I have no proof whatsoever but heard that he took a lie detector test and passed it. 
It didn't affect the sentance but he was allowed to come to the UK to serve the remainder of it but Jack Straw pardoned him and he was then released from prison in this country.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on July 30, 2011, 02:40:18 pm
Apologies, Hugo: I seem to remember = I seem To Remember.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on July 30, 2011, 11:31:54 pm
Just going back to the ID card debate...

No matter how many arrests there were for Terrorism versus Fraud,  there would certainly have been a lot MORE arrests and simple convictions for BOTH crimes if ID card were in force.

Not only that, but it would have prevented many of these types of crimes from actually happening in the first place.

Finally, yes, I think terrorism is a much worse threat to society than fraud, (though I despise both) .. because I never saw a fraudster explode in a train carriage, murder scores of people, and maim hundreds more.

Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: PC Mike Smith on July 31, 2011, 12:53:29 am
Let's get some policing issues going!  :)

Mike, how is the force re-structuring that took place in May coming along?

Have there been any noticeable benefits?

With regard to crime statistics, I should think that it's a little early at present to see any noticeable differences?

http://www.north-wales.police.uk/about_us/force_restructure_2011.aspx (http://www.north-wales.police.uk/about_us/force_restructure_2011.aspx)   

Hi Trojan,
Sorry for the delay in responding.
Since the restructuring it is fair to say that things have changed a lot.
The local response Teams are now running from Colwyn Bay leaving only the Neighbourhood Policing Teams and the new Investigation Teams at Llandudno.
This now means that the response officers are freed up to deal with the urgent jobs leaving the Investigation Team to deal with those deemed not so urgent and the Neighbourhood Policing Teams dealing with the Crimes on their respective patches.
The difference being that it used to be the Response teams dealing with all reports on a first service basis and then retaining the Investigation side of Crimes and passing down the non Crimes or lower level crimes to the Neighbourhood Policing Teams which  resulted in a much bigger workload for Response officers leaving them tied up with investigating Crimes when they should have been out on pro active patrols when not responding to emergency calls.
Now we have the Investigation teams and the Neighbourhood Policing Teams taking over the investigation of Crimes from the offset, freeing up the response teams to be more pro active and leaving more officers available to deal with incidents as they occur or more preferably before they occur.
At the busiest times such as late nights and weekends, the Neighbourhood Teams double up as Response units to add numbers to the presence in the busier areas.
I have to admit there were some teething problems as there is with all new systems but i honestly believe we are now providing a better all round service to those who are unfortunate enough to be victims of crime.
Each Crime has a dedicated investigator with agreed times when the Victim will receive updates (an area which i believe the Police in general seriously lacked in) we also now have experienced investigation supervisors who will go through each crime with a fine toothcomb to make sure nothing has been overlooked by the investigator and crimes cannot be filed unless every single possible line of enquiry has been exhausted.
One of the main reasons the restructuring took place was the attempts at reducing costs, obviously i cannot comment on how that is going as i don't have access to those figures but overall, i think it has been a good thing but as you say, i agree it is a little early to judge on Crime statistics which will eventually be the deciding factor as to whether the restructuring has been a success or not.
The above is my personal opinion only and not necessarily shared by my colleagues or superior officers
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: PC Mike Smith on July 31, 2011, 06:33:52 pm
One thing i should have mentioned is that the response teams are now bigger than they were and are deployed from colwyn bay to cover alll areas.i think my original post made it sound like they were only covering colwyn bay which is not the case.In fact there are probably more patrols in Llandudno than there were previously.
Title: Re: Police News & Announcements
Post by: Llechwedd on August 02, 2011, 12:48:15 pm
How about going completely mad and having police on the beat?  Last time I saw a policeman in Llandudno was Christmas eve 2009 yes that's right two years ago.  You should have a presence and locals would know you were due and there to answer questions, sort out problems etc.  Otherwise what on earth do you do all the time?
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on August 03, 2011, 12:19:18 am
If that is your experience Llechwedd, then fair enough.

But, it wouldn't be true to say that in my own area. (Great Orme)
Also, I think I do see quite a lot of beat constables around in Llandudno these days... and police vehicles in the evenings.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: PC Mike Smith on August 03, 2011, 07:56:03 pm
Llechwedd,
in response to your question "what on earth do you do all the time",

I don't know whether it was tongue in cheek but after thinking about it, it must be a question which those who don't work within the Police must wonder all the time.If they are not out on foot, what the heck are they doing and i will try to explain a typical day below.

Today for instance when i started duty there were in excess of 30 incidents (This is relatively low) which needed to be dealt with in the course of the day just in our area.
These are calls from the Public deemed by the callers themselves as not urgent but still require a resolution.
Each of those incidents take a minimum of half an hour to resolve and in more complex cases can take up anything from an hour to 3 hours.
In addition to these incidents and pre arranged appointments, we have to deal with jobs as they come in which at busy periods can be numerous Urgent 999 calls requiring immediate response from Officers leaving the non urgent calls to be placed on hold until officers are free.
For the incidents in which a crime has been committed, we need to record a statement at the scene and preserve any evidence etc.
In between each of these incidents the necessary Paperwork must be completed in relation to each incident.
As a result of some of the urgent calls and indeed some of the non urgent calls, we make several arrests which result in hours spent transporting the arrested person to custody, interviews and subsequent paperwork , file building for court etc.
In between attending our appointments, non urgent incidents, urgent incidents, paperwork, arrests, Interviews, Statements etc..we need to spend time investigating any criminal offences we have picked up some of which have lengthy enquiries attached.
There are also the numerous Court appearances we need to fit in.
When we are not doing any of the above, we will get out there on foot which is exactly what we all joined the Police to do.
As a local resident i also agree that we need to see more visible Police walking on the streets.
However, there are always Officers assigned to Llandudno Town Centre both on foot and on mobile patrol at the busiest times and i am sure any regular visitors to Llandudno Town Centre even on quiet days will have seen PC Gary Donnelly patrolling on foot as the Community Beat Manager for Llandudno Town Centre.
With the recent changes, i have been able to get out on foot a lot more in my own areas which i am glad has been noticed by residents such as Fester above.
I can assure you that despite beliefs to the contrary, there is not one time of the day that officers are sat in the Police station doing nothing, there is always something to be done and is the reason why we can be seen sometimes darting in to local take aways to grab a bite to eat on the move which again is something we are criticised for but it is a necessity rather than a luxury as we regularly miss out on meal breaks as a result of our workloads for the day and just grab something when we can.
None of us are complaining though,We are paid relatively well in comparison to other jobs and the hectic days are part of the attraction along with not knowing what may happen in the next five minutes.
I would really like it if the British Police were able to invite members of the Public to spend a shift with a Police officer as they can in America.I think it would really make a difference to people's opinions of what we do, how we go about the job and also their opinions of us as people.

Hopefully next time you are walking through Llandudno, Llechwedd you will see a good old fashioned Policeman on the beat complete with traditional helmet which at the end of the day is something we all want to see more regularly.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Bri Roberts on August 03, 2011, 09:01:24 pm
Mike,

I have since received an acknowledgement following my pm to you.

Thank you for your assistance.

Brian
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: PC Mike Smith on August 03, 2011, 09:28:22 pm
Thanks Mike for giving me the details of the Colwyn Heights Community Police, I have already been in touch regarding a matter that has arisen here.

No problem Hugo, glad i could help.Hope it gets resolved.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: PC Mike Smith on August 03, 2011, 09:29:11 pm
Mike,

I have since received an acknowledgement following my pm to you.

Thank you for your assistance.

Brian

Thats good News Bri, Thanks for letting me know
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: crd on August 05, 2011, 07:07:20 pm
Is this fact or fiction if it is fact I need to move to Llandudno?  I have never seen my local beat manager walking the streets in my town, the only way I would recognise him is by the photo posted on the NWP web site the only thing I see is a police patrol car speeding through.
 gone are the days when the local officer new the people in the town and relied on information given to apprehend villains, the fact is there are not enough officers on the beat crimes don’t get reported because people know they will have to wait hours if not days for a response, if you report drug activity you are told we (the Police) are looking at the bigger picture
Llechwedd,
in response to your question "what on earth do you do all the time",

I don't know whether it was tongue in cheek but after thinking about it, it must be a question which those who don't work within the Police must wonder all the time.If they are not out on foot, what the heck are they doing and i will try to explain a typical day below.

Today for instance when i started duty there were in excess of 30 incidents (This is relatively low) which needed to be dealt with in the course of the day just in our area.
These are calls from the Public deemed by the callers themselves as not urgent but still require a resolution.
Each of those incidents take a minimum of half an hour to resolve and in more complex cases can take up anything from an hour to 3 hours.
In addition to these incidents and pre arranged appointments, we have to deal with jobs as they come in which at busy periods can be numerous Urgent 999 calls requiring immediate response from Officers leaving the non urgent calls to be placed on hold until officers are free.
For the incidents in which a crime has been committed, we need to record a statement at the scene and preserve any evidence etc.
In between each of these incidents the necessary Paperwork must be completed in relation to each incident.
As a result of some of the urgent calls and indeed some of the non urgent calls, we make several arrests which result in hours spent transporting the arrested person to custody, interviews and subsequent paperwork , file building for court etc.
In between attending our appointments, non urgent incidents, urgent incidents, paperwork, arrests, Interviews, Statements etc..we need to spend time investigating any criminal offences we have picked up some of which have lengthy enquiries attached.
There are also the numerous Court appearances we need to fit in.
When we are not doing any of the above, we will get out there on foot which is exactly what we all joined the Police to do.
As a local resident i also agree that we need to see more visible Police walking on the streets.
However, there are always Officers assigned to Llandudno Town Centre both on foot and on mobile patrol at the busiest times and i am sure any regular visitors to Llandudno Town Centre even on quiet days will have seen PC Gary Donnelly patrolling on foot as the Community Beat Manager for Llandudno Town Centre.
With the recent changes, i have been able to get out on foot a lot more in my own areas which i am glad has been noticed by residents such as Fester above.
I can assure you that despite beliefs to the contrary, there is not one time of the day that officers are sat in the Police station doing nothing, there is always something to be done and is the reason why we can be seen sometimes darting in to local take aways to grab a bite to eat on the move which again is something we are criticised for but it is a necessity rather than a luxury as we regularly miss out on meal breaks as a result of our workloads for the day and just grab something when we can.
None of us are complaining though,We are paid relatively well in comparison to other jobs and the hectic days are part of the attraction along with not knowing what may happen in the next five minutes.
I would really like it if the British Police were able to invite members of the Public to spend a shift with a Police officer as they can in America.I think it would really make a difference to people's opinions of what we do, how we go about the job and also their opinions of us as people.

Hopefully next time you are walking through Llandudno, Llechwedd you will see a good old fashioned Policeman on the beat complete with traditional helmet which at the end of the day is something we all want to see more regularly.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on August 05, 2011, 07:23:42 pm
What annoys me about the local Constabulary is the way they choose when and when not to prosecute when blatant offences are committed.

One good example is their attitude to roads with double white lines.  On a normal day if you park on a road with double white lines you will get booked.  But when the Extravaganza and Transport Festival come to town you can park willy nilly on Craigside Hill despite the double white lines and nothing is done about it.  With traffic parked both sides of the road the width is severely restricted and it is dangerous.  However, the amusing fact is that cones are put out near to the central reservations so that adequate space to pass is kept for the buses.  In other words parking on such roads is encouraged.!   Explain that!
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: DaveR on August 05, 2011, 08:34:37 pm
Is this fact or fiction if it is fact I need to move to Llandudno?
I certainly see PC Gary Donnelly and the PCSOs on foot in Mostyn Street on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: crd on August 06, 2011, 08:47:48 am
Dave with respect I wonder if the residents of kings road and other hotspots in the town can say the same don’t matter how much the NWP dress it up community policing is not what it was.
Some years ago I argued the fact with a senior police officer, he came back with figures of more Bobbies on the beat I told him he might be brainwashed into thinking this but I saw the real picture I live in the community 24/7
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on August 06, 2011, 08:56:21 am
Speaking purely for myself, I feel that the Great Orme area has a decent amount of police patrols going on too.


Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on August 06, 2011, 01:09:41 pm
And it's a good place to hide away for the odd hour or so!    ;)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Pendragon on August 07, 2011, 06:54:03 pm
About a month ago every car in our street was keyed approximately 10 in total.  Two weeks ago every car in  our street had all the windscreen wipers pulled out but thankfully not broken.  Thursday night a notorious local who lives in the old peoples flats had his bonnet and all the windows in his car smashed.  :o   You'd think the police would keep an eye on the area wouldn't you.................................well think again.  Then the Council have the gall to try and charge us £80 to park here  :rage: It's like saying "Yes we know Basra is dangerous luv but you'll definitely get a bed for the night" un-flippin'-believable  >>>
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Parry on August 08, 2011, 10:09:05 am
Hi. I'll be doing a walkabout with Conwy District Inspector Ian Verburgh next week in Llanfairfechan for the NWWN. I'm hoping to be able to ask him questions on general concerns on policing in the county. Please shout if there are any questions you want answering. Thanks
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on August 08, 2011, 11:25:46 am
ASK HIM TO ANSWER MY QUESTION POSED ON 5 AUGUST ABOVE.

(Sorry for shouting but only obeying orders)  L0L
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Parry on August 08, 2011, 04:47:09 pm
 _))* thanks, read the comment. 
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: wjones74 on August 08, 2011, 10:40:18 pm
What if WE have a riot? . they are talking about using water cannons , probably help with those fires than ?  WWW
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: wjones74 on August 08, 2011, 10:44:19 pm
Seriously though! , worrying stuff , what would our "force" do ?
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on August 08, 2011, 11:00:07 pm
You wouldn't get a riot in these parts WJones, it is endemic in large cities with high ethnic populations.

It is always bubbling just under the surface, it is a palpable tension in many areas.

The real question is, how should they by stopped, and how can they be prevented.

I have said before that this is NOT the time to be cutting police resource and numbers.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: TheMedz on August 08, 2011, 11:44:54 pm
and on a more positive note I made my regular visit to my parent's house in Wrexham and when I was parking up the car, in what is a very quiet older age group part part of town, I saw two community police officers. They came across made conversation and politely asked  who I was and what was my business in the area. Some might regard that as intrusive I felt somewhat comforted by it all.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Trojan on August 09, 2011, 07:59:08 am
Some might regard that as intrusive I felt somewhat comforted by it all.

Where they female by any chance?  ???
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: PC Mike Smith on August 09, 2011, 09:01:31 am
We have a good percentage of riot trained officers in North Wales who undergo regular training which is exactly the same as the training received by all other forces.in fact there are a number of NWP officers who have left in the early hours of this morning for London.If the worst ever happened here we are actually well prepared and if required could rely on extra resources from merseyside, Cheshire and G.M.P.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on August 09, 2011, 09:52:28 am
I just hope that those who have been "trained" have been exposed to a realistic representation of what is actually happening in the Country.   To be involved in trying to quell these riots is frightening for even the most hardened Police Officer.

At least nowadays they have some decent protective equipment which we didn't in my day.  We had to manage with our "pointy" helmets, a whistle and an 18 inch length of lignum vitae.   ;D

But then we had a better class of thug all those years ago!   ;)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: PC Mike Smith on August 09, 2011, 10:09:03 am
Yorkie.yes the equipment nowadays is first class.i have seen what was once used and i have no idea how you coped in those days.
i was riot trained until two years ago and the training is extremely realistic involving missiles, petrol etc
As you say though i dont think any amount of training would compare with what my colleagues are facing for real
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Trojan on August 09, 2011, 10:41:37 am
At least nowadays they have some decent protective equipment which we didn't in my day.  We had to manage with our "pointy" helmets, a whistle and an 18 inch length of lignum vitae.   ;D

But then we had a better class of thug all those years ago!   ;)

 $angry1$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: crd on August 09, 2011, 01:16:25 pm
I think the frightening thing to come out of this is the statement that not enough police officers are trained to use riot equipment Because we don’t have the money to pay for it!!
We all know that cuts are essential but not enough thought has gone into where they should fall as always things that look good on paper don’t often work in practise.
 why these overpaid politicians can’t for once do what they are elected for listen to the public
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on August 09, 2011, 01:50:44 pm
I think the best idea is for us to bring ALL our troops home from trying to sort out other peoples thugs and get them to deal with our own.  A decent sum of our money would be saved at the same time.

Someone suggested to me that we should bring back conscription, then with all the thugs in the Forces they could Police themselves!   Somehow I don't think that would work.   L0L

I love the picture Trojan.  Was it taken around Hammersmith?   :D
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Parry on August 10, 2011, 04:52:21 pm
Had a very interesting walkabout with Mr Verburg on Tuesday afternoon. We discussed riots, littering and OF COURSE  dog fouling!  ;) Interesting that some of our officers from the district have been sent to London to reinforce.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on August 10, 2011, 05:06:39 pm
Had a very interesting walkabout with Mr Verburg on Tuesday afternoon. We discussed riots, littering and OF COURSE  dog fouling!  ;) Interesting that some of our officers from the district have been sent to London to reinforce.

Did he say what he was going to do about the local issues?   
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on August 10, 2011, 06:42:06 pm
It is obvious that I didn't shout loud enough!  Or is it once again a question to be dodged rather than dealt with?    $angry$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Micox on August 10, 2011, 06:46:36 pm
Sociological Parable.

I was born and brought up in a council flat - one of a street in which which many were allocated to the lowest of the low income groups. In that street we lived in a different dimension to those in the classes above us. The culture was rough with regular fights (both kids and adults) and one of the pastimes was two groups of warring kids throwing stones at each other as weapons. Sometime a group would single out an individual kid and chase him with stones.

So there evolved characters who were 'hard knocks' leaders of small gangs - cocks of the street. Violent characters.

Most of us ordinary kids tried out petty theft from shops like Woolworths. It wasn't wrong; they could well afford it. Shopkeepers and businesses were part of a different world to us. We just popped out into that world sometimes an snatched just a little of what they had.

Three or four slid into more serious criminal activities. They were caught and savagely beaten up by the police. It happened more than once. There were two detectives in particular who had a reputation of brutality. Even  though most of us grew up with a strong internal moral sense and code, learning to hate the police became ingrained as did wariness of public authorities. I didn't understand this until I later read Kant.

In a long career of close work with public authorities and close work, sometimes arm in arm with the police, very little has changed in terms of trusting the police. Mistrust has, if anything, been reinforced by inside knowledge of their 'back room' tactics and behaviour - including that of one or two individual coppers, whatever their behaviour is supposed to be.

To see things first hand is to be enlightened. Very little, bar scale, changes - does it.   
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on August 10, 2011, 07:37:06 pm
Back in my day the number of prisoners who appeared in court with injuries was unreal and virtually everyone of them had "fallen up (or down) the Charge Room steps."    :-X
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: crd on August 12, 2011, 08:01:19 pm
I was disgusted to hear MPs making political gain by saying they had put measures in place to quell the riots.
We have got to support the police for the job they did they handled a dangerous situation and make no mistake they put their lives on the line in taking back the streets maybe next time it happens we could mobilize all our elected members and let them put their money were there mouth is
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: DaveR on August 12, 2011, 09:05:52 pm
I agree with what you say, but the Police surely do have to answer to the Home Secretary and Prime Minister and, indeed, Parliament in general.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Micox on August 13, 2011, 06:31:17 pm
Quote
Police surely do have to answer to the Home Secretary and Prime Minister and, indeed, Parliament in general.

Come off it Dave - even some individual coppers are a law unto themselves.  >?>??

Heddwch.

Mike.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: dwsi on August 18, 2011, 11:34:37 pm
Syniadau :: The Blog: Welsh lessons for the Met http://bit.ly/nM9jlX (http://bit.ly/nM9jlX)

 $walesflag$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: DaveR on August 19, 2011, 08:36:00 am
...and here's another one:
http://londonist.com/2011/08/photo-of-the-day-heddlu.php (http://londonist.com/2011/08/photo-of-the-day-heddlu.php)

Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on September 07, 2011, 01:06:13 am
Tonight, I witnessed at first hand, the bloody hard job that a police officer has in this, or any other area of the UK.

After I toddled off to get a taxi on Gloddaeth St tonight, a big, hooded bloke barged past me and proceeded to kick the windows in of Vollams Shop.  I couldn't believe what I was seeing, and several people just stood around and watched.
Anyhow, he smashed his way inside and the alarm went off.

Within 30 seconds or so, a police car with a solitary officer arrived and he immediately tackled this much bigger (and very violent) bloke as he burst back out of the shattered window.
The tussle continued for a couple of minutes, until other officers (our own PC Mike included) arrived on the scene to subdue and arrest him.

Not a job for the faint hearted... well done to all.







Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: DaveR on September 07, 2011, 08:13:01 am
No doubt another loser claiming incapacity benefit but able to kick in shop windows - we shall see!  8)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Trojan on September 07, 2011, 09:05:37 am
The tussle continued for a couple of minutes, until other officers (our own PC Mike included) arrived on the scene to subdue and arrest him.

You didn't give the solitary officer a helping hand?  ???
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on September 07, 2011, 09:59:39 am
Will you appear as a witness?
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: PC Mike Smith on September 07, 2011, 05:37:14 pm
Tonight, I witnessed at first hand, the bloody hard job that a police officer has in this, or any other area of the UK.

After I toddled off to get a taxi on Gloddaeth St tonight, a big, hooded bloke barged past me and proceeded to kick the windows in of Vollams Shop.  I couldn't believe what I was seeing, and several people just stood around and watched.
Anyhow, he smashed his way inside and the alarm went off.

Within 30 seconds or so, a police car with a solitary officer arrived and he immediately tackled this much bigger (and very violent) bloke as he burst back out of the shattered window.
The tussle continued for a couple of minutes, until other officers (our own PC Mike included) arrived on the scene to subdue and arrest him.

Not a job for the faint hearted... well done to all.


The above is a very Humble post from Fester.
The facts of this case are that Fester witnessed this happening, flagged down the passing officer and then accompanied the officer to the smashed window.
When the male emerged the Officer and Fester apprehended him and struggled with him.The Officer was able to call for emergency back up.
When i arrived at the scene, The male was being held by the Officer and our very own Fester.
With Festers assistance, we were able to safely handcuff this male and perform an arrest.

When i arrived, there were several onlookers standing around and some were filming the action on their mobile phones whilst Fester and the Officer struggled with this violent male.Fester was the only person who offered any assistance at all.

I spoke to the officer involved afterwards, he had received some minor injuries which were cleaned up by Paramedics but he stated that the injuries could have been a lot worse if it hadnt been for Festers assistance.He felt that he might not have been able to get complete control of this male had it not been for Festers help.

The perfect job for any Police Officer is finding a Burglar in the process of his Crime and on this occasion , without Festers help,this Burglar could have struggled free.

As a result of Fester's assistance, the Burglar was detained , still in posession of the goods he had stolen from within Vollams, he was arrested and today has been charged with Burglary and other offences.

This has resulted in the owner of Vollam's not losing his stock and a violent Burglar being taken off the streets and hopefully being dealt with robustly at court.

I have no doubt that Fester's actions played a huge part in this male being brought to justice and i have brought it to the attention of senior officers to recommend that he is recognised for his selfless actions.

So on behalf of myself, my colleague whom you assisted and all officers within North Wales Police as well as the owner of Vollam's,

Thank you Fester!!

Mike
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Nemesis on September 07, 2011, 06:33:02 pm
Well done Fester-- you are a brave man :-*
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: DaveR on September 07, 2011, 06:34:30 pm
Yes, very public spirited - well done!  $good$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Bri Roberts on September 07, 2011, 06:55:18 pm
Well done, Fester.  D)

Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: hollins on September 07, 2011, 07:15:09 pm
Very brave of you Fester. I hope you are not injured.
Some years ago my husband and his friend were walking back to their car in Sheffield city centre.
They saw two men attempting a break in. They went to the nearest public phone box to call 999. (This was in the days before mobile phones). The would be burglars must have seen them though and decided to beat up my husband and his mate instead. They were well away before the police arrived.
Just a story to emphasise the bravery of your actions but please be careful!
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Trojan on September 07, 2011, 07:57:32 pm
The tussle continued for a couple of minutes, until other officers (our own PC Mike included) arrived on the scene to subdue and arrest him.

You didn't give the solitary officer a helping hand?  ???

You did!  $yes$

Nice one Fest!  $salute$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: snowcap on September 07, 2011, 08:12:33 pm
 well done fester, let me bye you a pint next time im back , you earned it mate.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Michael on September 07, 2011, 08:43:05 pm
Bloody great, good on you Fes.  I'm not trying to steal your thunder, but I was in a similar position (though through very different circumstances)  around fifty years ago. Holywell, a wild town in those days. We, a group of around six or seven young lads, had spent the night drinking in the Kings Head. At throwing out time we emerged into the square at the top of the High street to see two or three coppers trying to get six or seven drunken rioters towards the Police Station, around 400 yards away. A large crowd of onlookers, maybe 20 or more were watching all this. One of my friends said "I don't like to see the Police being hammered like this. Lets go and get help." Unfortunately for me, Ive always suffered with bad hearing and I thought he said "Lets go and help." So, me, full of enthusiasm shouted "Right" and pushed my way through the crowd to get at all the action, only to find my half dozen mates had legged it off up the road to the Station.  The local paper ran an article about the incedent in which it stated "Only one public spirited citezen went to the assistance of the Police. "   If only they had known it was a combination of alcohol and bad hearing that did it.  It was in the County Herald some time around 1955 or 6.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Blodyn on September 07, 2011, 08:59:33 pm
Yes, well done Fester.  That was certainly very brave.   &well&
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Bellringer on September 07, 2011, 10:03:48 pm
Well done Fester.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on September 07, 2011, 10:09:07 pm
Mike Ormegolf,  I'm rolling around laughing at that tale of yours... I'm deaf in one ear too, but thats no excuse... Pardon??

Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Merddin Emrys on September 07, 2011, 11:21:42 pm
Fester, well done mate, but be carefull out there!  $good$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Pendragon on September 08, 2011, 11:37:59 pm
Fair play to you Mr Man it takes some b*llocks nerve to intervene like that.  Lets just hope the guy whoever he is does get a spell on Her Majestys Service.  $good$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on September 09, 2011, 08:42:20 am
An inspiration to us all


Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Michael on September 13, 2011, 08:29:14 pm
North Wales Police have twittered, and been retweeted by andrew steward, all about the recent late night tobacconists breakin. They mention a public spirited man who wants to remain anonomous ---- but --- we all know who the good man was, don't we?
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: DaveR on September 13, 2011, 09:32:17 pm
I noted this bit:

"The offender, a 32-year-old man,  was charged with burglary and other offences and appeared before Llandudno Magistrates Court less than 48 hours later, where he was sentenced to 16 weeks in prison."

So...burglary and assaulting a police officer only gets you 16 weeks in jail? That's very poor, he should have gone down for several years. Business owners and police officers alike need to be protected from these morons and sentences like this are no deterrent.

http://www.north-wales.police.uk/news__appeals/praise_for_man_who_helped.aspx (http://www.north-wales.police.uk/news__appeals/praise_for_man_who_helped.aspx)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on September 14, 2011, 07:45:53 am
Quote
sentences like this are no deterrent.

Are any? Not if you look at the recidivism statistics.  In fact, jailing people - no matter for how long - doesn't seem to have any sort of beneficial effect, other than to remove them from society for that period.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: DaveR on September 14, 2011, 08:14:43 am
... and that's the key point. Society needs to be protected from people like this man. It's his choice to commit criminal acts and it's our right to be protected from them. Therefore, longer prison sentences for people with a continuous history of criminal activity will, if nothing else, give law abiding people a rest from their behaviour.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on September 14, 2011, 09:45:28 am
Quote
Society needs to be protected from people like this man.

But does imprisonment lead to long-term protection for society?  Once out, they're ensnared by a past criminal record, unlikely ever to get a decent job and thus become dependent on the state for the remainder of their lives.  In cold terms, we pay for them for as long as they live.  We know prison doesn't work; the probation service, the benefits agencies and social services can all vouch for that simple fact. It doesn't deter, which you were implying is its prime function; it doesn't reform, which surely should be its main aim and it doesn't - either financially or culturally - protect society in the long term.

This isn't a 'leftie' perspective BTW, unless you believe Ken Clarke has converted. He's been saying the same thing for a long time.  Prison doesn't work.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: DaveR on September 14, 2011, 11:03:14 am
How would you suggest we deal with dangerous people with no regard for anyone apart from themselves and who constantly inflict misery on other people through burglaries/assaults etc?
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on September 14, 2011, 12:49:50 pm
In terms of long term protection for society, we need a complete re-think of the jurisprudence system.  What we've got isn't working - simple as that.  And it's costing vast amounts of money. We need a system that deals with the root causes of this sort of behaviour without leaving society to pick up the tab.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: DaveR on September 14, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Some people are just born evil, I think it's simple as that. You can't change their nature, sadly.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: CurlyCap on September 14, 2011, 02:37:24 pm
Quote
Society needs to be protected from people like this man.

Prison doesn't work.

The problem is that prison is no deterrant now. There should be no Play Stations, Sky TV and all the other luxuries that they think are their Human Rights. It is supposed to be hardship in prison and time to reflect on their crime !!!!! Not a youth hostel type setup !!!! Prison definitely does not work now and won't until they return them to the dreaded places they should be !!!!!

Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Michael on September 14, 2011, 09:06:41 pm
I AM REALLY STICKING MY NECK OUT HERE.  Our two moderators arguing (discussing) between themselves. Makes good reading, maybe. I agree with one or the other, maybe. But---I'm not going to be brave enough to say which one.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on September 14, 2011, 09:43:39 pm
You didn't go on to stick your neck out at all did you Mike?

Anyhow, the fundamental question has not been answered.  It may be true that prison neither reforms or deters crime.
As Curly Cap says, prison doesn't HURT enough, it is not a big enough fear.

So, the question remains, what alternative do people believe will work?

I'm afraid that I would shift even further to the right on this, I believe that humane Capital punishment is most definitely worth introducing.
Ian might say that where it exists in the USA it is not proved to deter crime. 
I would say that when the sentence is carried out, it most certainly cuts the amount of RE-offending!
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Michael on September 14, 2011, 11:10:37 pm
This is a very serious discussion.

Having said that ---- I cannot help but write this.

Fester, dont you like me?   I post about sticking my neck out --- and you go on about capital punishment!!!  What do the French say  Madame Guilletine
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: CurlyCap on September 14, 2011, 11:33:43 pm
 L0L Glad you've lightened the tone Ormegolf !

I just had to comment earlier (after reading Dave and Ian's debate) as we have a friend who's a prison officer who feels so frustrated with the way that prisons are run. He raises the point that even some of the "cons" want it to be tougher !
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Nemesis on September 15, 2011, 10:40:03 am
http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2011/09/15/have-a-go-hero-tackles-llandudno-robber-55243-29422311/ (http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2011/09/15/have-a-go-hero-tackles-llandudno-robber-55243-29422311/)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Pendragon on September 21, 2011, 12:04:04 pm
does anyone have the link to the north wales police incident board.  I seem to remember it was a link to get up to date on the spot "incidents as it happens" news?? or was I dreaming.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Nemesis on September 21, 2011, 04:59:25 pm
HI Pen
This what you need?
http://www.north-wales.police.uk/ (http://www.north-wales.police.uk/)
Fester's episode was mentioned last week !
Nem
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Pendragon on September 21, 2011, 11:19:11 pm
Nem you are a Darlin that's the link I was after.  13 cars up our road got their windscreens smashed last night.  The Police caught the 2 local lads responsible.  Can't really say much more at present as statements are being taken.  Let's just say they both got more than they bargained for  ;)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: DaveR on September 22, 2011, 08:40:54 am
What a pair of morons.  $angry$ Would those two be the same ones responsible for the previous damage, I wonder?
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Pendragon on September 22, 2011, 10:39:26 am
We'll never know DaveR.  They were caught red handed by my Hubby and a mate up the road.  One was held on the floor till the Police came and the other did a runner but was later caught by the railway station (this bit makes me laugh) he was arrested naked from the waist down as he'd ripped his tracksuit bottoms off trying to get over a spiked fence.  He was taken to hospital with injuries to his nads (scrotum)  ;D
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Merddin Emrys on September 22, 2011, 12:21:23 pm
We'll never know DaveR.  They were caught red handed by my Hubby and a mate up the road.  One was held on the floor till the Police came and the other did a runner but was later caught by the railway station (this bit makes me laugh) he was arrested naked from the waist down as he'd ripped his tracksuit bottoms off trying to get over a spiked fence.  He was taken to hospital with injuries to his nads (scrotum)  ;D

Well done!  I love the last bit, hopefully it will stop him breeding more of the same!  L0L L0L
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Quiggs on September 22, 2011, 12:43:12 pm
I overheard a conversation in the 'Onestop ' shop ,west shore, this morning. A customer said that she was awakened during the night, by someone in the back garden, the assistant replied that several other customers had said something similar this morning. It would appear that there are some night prowlers going around!
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Nemesis on September 22, 2011, 01:00:45 pm
Perhaps they should report this. There is a hunt going on again for a missing person.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: DaveR on September 22, 2011, 10:14:43 pm
He was taken to hospital with injuries to his nads (scrotum)  ;D
Good.  $good$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Trojan on September 23, 2011, 01:18:36 pm
he was arrested naked from the waist down as he'd ripped his tracksuit bottoms off trying to get over a spiked fence.

What? No underwear? Is he from Pengarth?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: DaveR on September 23, 2011, 01:46:28 pm
Missing Woman

"Please help locate Debbie was last seen on tues 20th Sept outside Bangor hospital. 5'4" 46yrs blonde wearing blue jeans brown parka with fluffy hood. If anyone has any information please contact police, she is from Llandudno area but was last seen in Bangor"

Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Trojan on September 23, 2011, 02:15:01 pm
Missing Woman

"Please help locate Debbie was last seen on tues 20th Sept outside Bangor hospital. 5'4" 46yrs blonde wearing blue jeans brown parka with fluffy hood. If anyone has any information please contact police, she is from Llandudno area but was last seen in Bangor"

Debbie Gent....I remember her.

She was found safe in Bangor this morning.  :)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: TheMedz on November 23, 2011, 05:15:13 pm
http://www.north-wales.police.uk/news__appeals/all_features/vehicle_checks.aspx (http://www.north-wales.police.uk/news__appeals/all_features/vehicle_checks.aspx)

I spotted this article on the BBC Wales website.

It relates to Police in North Wales (and others thoughout the UK) using VDRS as an alternative to immediate Fixed Penalty Notice for cars with defects that might be hazardous during the winter.   

As an example my son drove out of work in Bromborough  last winter unaware he had a rear brake light out. Within 100 yards he was pulled over by the Police and given a reasonably hefty fixed penalty fine. He went straight to Halfords got a new bullb and the defect was fixed but he still had to pay the fine. The use of VDRS might have been a more suitable solution and unlike the fixed penalty fine would have more chance of making sure the driver went away and got the defect fixed. The incentive is there to get the work done and then get it signed off by a verified tester to save paying the fine.



Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on November 23, 2011, 06:39:48 pm
As an ex copper (somke years ago)  I deplore the present heavy handed way the "modern" force go about their business.  Unfortunatel, now it is all to do with numbers, statistics and money.

What has happened to the old "word in your ear" or "word of warning" that previous police forces have advocated and used?   It did a damn site more good, saved paperwork, court time and ceated a greater respect between the police force and the public.

With the respect we had we also got co-operation and there was no need for an Officer on the Beat to be wanderring round like a second hand junk store with a body loaded down with cuffs, tazers, and all the other impedimenta that the powers that be consider should be part of their armoury.  Get the PC's back on the beat, get them to mingle with the people, get them to regain that respect that once was king, and then maybe we will, by co-operation rather than confrontation, see a reduction in offences of all types.

And one major, and very simple move, would be to get off the backs of the already persecuted motorist.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: DaveR on November 23, 2011, 09:55:38 pm
I went to meet a friend arriving by train yesterday afternoon. The train had arrived early and so my friend had the company of one of the town's alcoholics telling her all about how he got his black eye whilst she waited for me. Even though these men are relatively harmless, it is still intimidating for women on their own to be approached by them. I hope that when the station is rebuilt, it is made a 'closed station', i.e. you cannot gain access to the platforms without a ticket.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Quiggs on November 24, 2011, 01:13:21 pm
I was stopped for a rear light failure, I said that I had a spare bulb in my toolbox and would change it there and then. The copper said that it had to be done by a qualified person. I told him that I had reconditioned the engine, changed the gearbox and uprated the suspension amongst other things and was quite capable of changing a light bulb. But he would not have any of it and insisted that it was done by a qualified person and that I had to get the work checked by an M.O.T. garage and gave me a document to prove it at a Police Station. At considerable cost and time to myself. And they wonder why motorists do not respect the Police !   >>>
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on November 24, 2011, 02:11:53 pm
Personally I would have said you were qualified and he has issued an enforcement notice just to fill his target.  That's not a copper that's a Jobsworth contender!     :twoface:

I wonder if the Chief Constable realises that by such actions for such a trivial matter his force are losing the co-operation of the public.  I don't think that nowadays many would cross the road, or even make a phone call to assist a copper in trouble.    A really sorry state of affairs.   :(
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: martin on December 14, 2011, 05:42:49 pm
 $angry$ As someone once said "I don't believe it"  it is total madness, not being able to replace a bulb yourself, what have we come to?  I will never go out in my car after dark again. $angry$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Nemesis on December 15, 2011, 08:27:47 am
http://www.haynes.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Feature_ChangeBulbView?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001 (http://www.haynes.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Feature_ChangeBulbView?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001)

I doubt that this copper was within his rights-- see the above link. It categorically says that you can do the job yourself !
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Merddin Emrys on December 15, 2011, 09:21:45 am
The only problem is that on a lot of very modern cars it's a long job changing bulbs, some cars require a lot of dismantling to get to a bulb  $angry$
Some years ago on an Audi estate that a friend had, the warning light came on to say a bulb had failed at the back and the pair of us (both good with cars) could not see how to change it! The handbook said 'go to a main dealer,which he did, at a cost of about £50....  utter madness!!  Thankfully I can easily change the bulbs on our  3 cars  D)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: martin on December 15, 2011, 02:54:35 pm
Yes, I would agree, I can, and have, changed bulbs on my car, but the problem arises when you are stopped by the police for a blown bulb in a rear light and then prevented from replacing the bulb yourself, it is total madness.  I regularly check my lights are all okay, but as my car does not warn you if a bulb blows, I could take all of the precautions in the world to comply with the law, but through no fault of my own, fall foul of it.  It is totally unacceptable.  it is not as if you deliberately set out to break the law, but the police treat it as such, all be it in a round about way.  Either accept their fixed penalty notice, a fine and points, or get the bulb changed by a garage and the work certified by and MOT station, all of which is going to cost you at least £70 when VAT is added on, either way, you are being punished for something that you had no control over and were not aware had happened.  DISGRACFUL! $angry$  $angry$ $angry$  $angry$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on December 15, 2011, 04:53:39 pm
One could always opt to have the case dealt with by HM Court Service.  Any  self respecting Magistrate or Judge would throw the case out!
 ;)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: martin on December 15, 2011, 05:57:41 pm
Hello Yorkie, that's what I was thinking, if you as a motorist take reasonable care to ensure the car is in a roadworthy condition by checking tyres, lights, etc, before setting out, I cannot see how they can convict you for something that is 100% outside your control.  I feel sure that at some stage someone with money will challenge this and hopefully get the law changed.  I am all for ensuring compliance, especially where safety is concerned, but common sense needs to be used firstly by those charged with legislating and secondly, by those enforcing the laws.   
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: snowcap on December 16, 2011, 12:28:22 am
c.mon martin ,common sense, what world are you living in ,it went out of the window years ago
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: martin on December 16, 2011, 01:16:11 pm
c.mon martin ,common sense, what world are you living in ,it went out of the window years ago
You're right snowcap, but I can dream.  We have been living in Spain for two years, and there it is even worse, because they are in dire financial straights they are trying everything to raise funds.  For not wearing a seatbelt it's a penalty of 600 euro's, the police are just sitting at the side of country roads stopping everyone and issuing fantastic penalties for the most basic of things, (although I do not include seatbelts in this), so the UK is second league when compared to Spain.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: born2run on January 08, 2012, 06:47:29 pm
Not only are these morons that stupid they think it's funny to hold buses up and waste people's time.
They're that thick they post their videos to youtube with their names in the credits  _))*

Feel free to give them a slap on the wrist should you guys at NWP be bothered as they've practically handed themselves in!

http://www.youtube.com/user/BusJackers/videos (http://www.youtube.com/user/BusJackers/videos)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: PC Mike Smith on January 12, 2012, 11:34:36 pm
Not only are these morons that stupid they think it's funny to hold buses up and waste people's time.
They're that thick they post their videos to youtube with their names in the credits  _))*

Feel free to give them a slap on the wrist should you guys at NWP be bothered as they've practically handed themselves in!

http://www.youtube.com/user/BusJackers/videos (http://www.youtube.com/user/BusJackers/videos)

Thank you for publishing this. I have had a quick look today and surprisingly there does not seem to have been any complaints from Arriva drivers regarding this (i may be wrong though, ill dig deeper tomorrow)
Apart from pure Anti Social Behaviour there are some clear criminal offences here such as Harassment and a very nicely evidenced on film "section 5, Public Order" when they begin fighting on the bus.
I have identified the location and will be contacting Arriva tomorrow.
I will keep you updated on this.
If anyone recognises the elderly lady who has a go at them, i would be grateful if you could PM me.
Mike
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: born2run on January 12, 2012, 11:41:48 pm
Well it's very nice and refreshing to see the police taking this kind of thing seriously.  $good$

Thanks Mike
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on January 13, 2012, 09:42:42 pm
Its pretty obvious what is happening here.
Local lads (with nothing better to do) wanting to be internet celebrities, getting a mate to film them in their endeavours to emulate the Phone Jackers.

They probably thought they were being hilarious, and judging by the comments on Youtube they will be encouraged to think that.

Sadly, they didn't think it through, and they weren't particularly funny. ( the pennies one did have potential to be fair)
They never swore or got aggressive, however they were very annoying to people going about their daily journey.
Now, the saddest thing here is that if an irate passenger had intervened physically to get them off the bus, then that passenger would have been guilty of an assault.  As happened recently with the guy on the Scottish train.

The other sad thing is that these lads have nothing better to do with their lives.

Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: born2run on January 13, 2012, 10:03:24 pm
Its pretty obvious what is happening here.
Local lads (with nothing better to do) wanting to be internet celebrities, getting a mate to film them in their endeavours to emulate the Phone Jackers.

They probably thought they were being hilarious, and judging by the comments on Youtube they will be encouraged to think that.

Sadly, they didn't think it through, and they weren't particularly funny. ( the pennies one did have potential to be fair)
They never swore or got aggressive, however they were very annoying to people going about their daily journey.
Now, the saddest thing here is that if an irate passenger had intervened physically to get them off the bus, then that passenger would have been guilty of an assault.  As happened recently with the guy on the Scottish train.

The other sad thing is that these lads have nothing better to do with their lives.

True - every other show these days seems to be some kind of prank show since the massive success of Borat.
Obviously going to have an effect on idiots trying to be funny.
None of these videos are funny in the slightest, the penny thing has been done on one of the many prank shows before I'm sure, struggling to remember which one...

However I would argue that they weren't aggressive - you can clearly see them bang on the bus window as it is driving away. and the fighting and other boisterous activities could certainly scare the elderly or young children who make up a very large percentage of bus travellers.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Merddin Emrys on January 24, 2012, 04:30:00 pm
I've just been up Haulfre Gardens and seen that the old hut (which was in a bad way) has been removed. I'm told that if it does get replaced it will be in concrete due to the high risk of vandalism. I'm informed that fires are started, drugs needles etc found up there.

(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i331/penrhynpigeons/DSCN0484.jpg)

So my question is, do Police patrols ever go up there? Are there any CCTV cameras up there?  Such a shame to see it all going downhill due to the actions of a minority!
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: DaveR on January 24, 2012, 06:20:40 pm
Both Shelters were removed due to damage caused by neglect more than anything, no repair work had been carried out on them in 10 years to my knowledge. I contacted Cllr Mike Priestley about them last Autumn and he was arranging for them to be repaired subject to the money being available. Vandalism is a slight problem up there but lack of maintenance is a considerably larger one!

No point having CCTV cameras as there's no street lighting, so useless at night.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Michael on April 01, 2012, 09:27:55 pm
This  post is mega long.
  Last Thursday, 5.20 p.m., I HAD to get to W.H.Smiths in C.Bay before closing. I needed a staplier, urgent. This resulted in me being threatened with instant arrest by a Police officer. Yes, me, the meek and mild golf club operator.
 I drove down by the Library, spotted a parking spot JUST big enough with a struggle. A very smart new car with a lady in the driving seat parked, then the space, then an empty car. Just three spaces, clear road at both ends.
 So I backed in with a struggle, did a second front and back, and stopped. The car alarm went off in the empty car. I opened my door to get out but immediately on the pavement was the lady from the car in front. In an unfriendly voice "You have hit that car behind." Me: "No I havent." Lady. "Yes, you have, I saw you."
  I might add here that everything she said of any importance, she repeated a minimum of three times, up to six times, over the next half hour.
 I went to the back of my car and saw that my exhaust pipe was resting against the car behinds number plate, just touching it.
 The alarm had stopped. The woman from the car in front said, several times, "I'm going to take your cars number if you walk away." She was repeating all this, and I said "What exactly has this got to do with you?" "I happen to be a Police Officer although I'm off duty." Me: "Well I'm off to the shop, I'll be back in 10 mins if you are interested."
  10 mins later I was back. Now another lady was there as well, apparently the empty cars owner. She had reversed back around a foot or so to have a look at her car. The police lady was still going at me full strength so I said "Well I cannot see any damage to either car." "Oh yes there is" said the P.C. pointing to a mark on the number plate, about a quarter of a computer keyboard key, looked to me like a small stone mark, but not in line with my exhaust pipe, about six inches out of line. I pointed out it wasent in line, and one or the other of them said "I thought it was done with that" pointing at my towing hitch. This was even further out of line and below the level of her car, which I pointed out.
  In between all this at least THREE times this P.C. said to this lady "Are you SURE you don't want to proceed with this." And the lady replied, No, I dont want the bother, its nothing etc etc.
 At one stage the PC was on her phone, for a fair time, to someone. Now, she says to me "Name, address, date of birth, name of insurance company." I gave her my ins cert plus driving licence and MOT (not asked for) and she gave them a look over and made some notes.
  She returned them to me and started telling me to be careful I didnt loose the small plastic section of my licence and I told her in no uncertain terms that I'd had a driving licence for 60 years and Id never lost one and I didnt need advice from her.
  Now getting very nasty, shouting etc and I was getting madder and madder.
  By now the lady had got into her car but not driven away and the P.C. wandered off towards the shops.
  I sat in my car and thought I dont want to move, once I drive away the evidence will be lost. So I sat there.
  After a while I thought I will phone the police myself. Not 999, I know better than that. Whats the number. Not sure, but I'll try 101. Messagecame up "Number not in use." So I tried a second time. Same thing. So I thought is it 112. I got through to the police control room. I told them all this. I was absolutely steaming mad. The operator told me to calm down a few times. I went over and over the incedent with her, she, like the pc, kept on saying the same things all the time "If you have been in a collision you must swop names and addresses" I kept on saying that the pc had given my details to the lady, and it wasent a collision it was a touch. Then I was told off for using an emergency number. I told her Id tried 101 and she said nastily that I should be patient and wait to be answered. That did it, I told HER in no uncertain terms that the number was NOT IN USE.
  And now, who is coming back up the road was the P.C.
 I'm out of my car like a shot, phone in hand, saying "shes here, do you want to talk to her, you are just wasting my time the pair of you."   The P.C. takes my phone off me and sits in her new shining car and talks, and talks, 5 mins, 10 mins (at my expense) eventually gives it back to me.
  So me "Well thats it. I'm going."  Got in my car and looking forward as I put on seat belt said to myself, but  strong enough for my words to carry out "What a f*****g waste of time."
  My door was instantly wrenched open and our female
 P.C. "I could instantly arrest you for swearing at a police officer."  Me shouting "I wasent speaking to you. I wasent looking at you. I was just passing a comment to myself----and take your hands of my door so that I can shut it. Goodbye."
   I didnt drive away. I just sat there. Eventually the P.C. drove away. I looked at the car behind but the lady had vanished, gone somewhere. So I went home and taken the last three days to cool down.
   The funny thing was as I first parked I thought, why doesent that woman (the PC) pull forward to make it  easier for me to park. Good job I didnt clip her shining new car.
  P.S. Just thought of something else. At least three times the P.C. said "I SAW YOU. You hit it twice." At the third time I said "Whilst you were sitting in your car in front. You got eyesite which sees round bends?." My car is a big 4x4.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on April 02, 2012, 07:56:02 am
Did she produce her Warrant Card to prove her identity?  If not I would report the incident to the CPO of N Wales Police.   I hope you got her car number.
 $good$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on April 02, 2012, 08:19:37 am
Absolutely.  I'd follow that up, Mike.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Nemesis on April 02, 2012, 08:31:22 am
Me too-- she sounds a right jobs-worth !
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on April 02, 2012, 11:59:03 am
Did she produce her Warrant Card to prove her identity?  If not I would report the incident to the CPO of N Wales Police.   I hope you got her car number.
 $good$

In fact Mike, you could quote the posting you made here directly to the NWP email address for a start.  Don't forget to send your letter by Recorded.   ££$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Michael on April 02, 2012, 12:21:09 pm
Hello everyone, she did start to get her card out right at the beginning but I didn't look at it. I was already annoyed at her first half dozen words. YOU have just HIT that car behind. With the tone of voice and the looks to go with it.
 If she had to stick her off duty nose in it, what's wrong with a bit of a smile and "I think you may have caught the car behind". She has an attitude problem, in my opinion she should never be in her job.
  But, I've no doubt she is in the police.  Not least because she had a ten minute conversation on my phone to the police control room. When I handed the phone to her I heard her say, in her pally voice, hello this is PC etc.
  Passing the post on to the police, not a bad idea. Except that then, at the least, I will be a marked man, and don't tell me that this doesn't happen.
No, I didn't get her car number. But, as I've said, I am quite sure she is in the police.  Mike
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Bri Roberts on April 02, 2012, 12:28:23 pm
I guess it is at a time like this we wish we still had PC Mike Smith as an active member.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Michael on April 02, 2012, 12:36:15 pm
Too true. Now there is a sensible man who has a bit of common sense.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on April 02, 2012, 11:44:08 pm
Mike.... Staplers, in packs of two in Poundland!  :laugh:


Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Michael on April 04, 2012, 09:28:57 pm
  I've thought a bit more about Y orkies suggestion that I email the whole post to N W Police. I thought --- if I have nothing to hide and nothing to be ashamed of, why should I worry about being critical of one police officer. So, to hell with it, Ive emailed off Mike
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on April 04, 2012, 09:37:05 pm
Surely you don't mean you've emailed it off to Mike Smith?   Or did I misread?
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on April 04, 2012, 09:50:23 pm
The main point of this debacle is that presumably the "Police woman" was OFF DUTY.  As such she had no right to interfere in a matter in which she has no powers.  No offence had been committed unless one or other of the parties had failed to exchange details after an accident.  However, this is not always possible.

As far as I see it there was no accident, just a touch of bumpers, which after all is what bumpers are for.  Nowadays designed to take a 5 mph collision.

The Policewoman had no right to interfere in what essentially is a civil matter.   Had a criminal act have taken place then she could, in certain circumstances, take action.  Although taking any action when off duty and in civilian dress is not recommended.   And especially with such aq minor incident as Mike has described.

Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Michael on April 07, 2012, 09:13:00 pm
  The end of this matter is I sent a copy of my original post to the N.W.Police email. A quick response asking what car park it was in. Despite my Stating Colwyn Bay at one stage and outside the Public Library in the next paragraph or two.
   Obviously the reader had skimmed through, but I can understand this, it was long.
   I replied, another letter from Police saying she could not identify the lady P.C. because she may not have been from the Colwyn Bay station, but she was passing my letter on to a Sergeant who covered complaints about the police.
   Of course if she had read my letter fully she would have noticed that the P.C. and the control room were talking to each other for I stated 10 minutes. So all she had to do was ask her own Control room who they had been talking to.
   Never mind, at the end this sergeant wrote saying he had found out who it was, had spoken to her, and if I wished I could phone him to speak about it.
   I didnt wish. I wasent taking the chance that there might have been another bust up between me and a N.W.Police representative. I wasent afraid, I had just got fed up with the whole matter. If they had read my post properly I might have assumed that they now knew that they had antagonised another law abiding resident, but seeing as they obviously hadnt read it properly I just gave up   Mike
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on April 07, 2012, 09:24:36 pm
I just hope that the incident has been registered at the nick. 

You certainly need to keep a note of the incident yourself, and specially include the day, date, time and place and full details of what happened.  Copy and print the post you put on the Forum which is an indication of your initial reaction and is also important for the record. 
 ££$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Michael on April 07, 2012, 09:36:17 pm
Thanks Yorkie for your support----especially as you have been in the Force yourself.  Mike
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on April 09, 2012, 04:11:16 pm
Mike, I sympathise with everything you have been through with this incident and can understand your frustration and anger at the way you have been treated by this person.   Yorkies advice is good and based on his experience and should be heeded. I think I know you well enough to say that you're not the type of person to damage a car and just drive off but this woman has definitely overstepped the mark.

To turn this around and say on the other hand  "what if someone drove into your parked car causing damage estimated at between £300.00 and £500.00 and then drove off without leaving their details and thinking that they had got away with the damage? "
It's an offence to do such a thing but that is exactly what happened to my car in Morrisons lower car park.
Luckily for me it was witnessed by someone who left details of the offending vehicle but unfortunately they didn't leave their contact details.   The matter has been reported to the Police and the incident was seen on CCTV but the driver still denies hitting my car although her car's paintwork is still visible on my damaged vehicle.  The matter is still in the hands of the Police and I hope she gets what she deserves.   
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on April 09, 2012, 06:01:19 pm
One of those occasions when one can bless the use of CCTV!   I hope you get the full compensation, plus a bit!     ;)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on April 09, 2012, 06:13:32 pm
Thanks Yorkie, at the time I would have been happy just to accept an apology plus her making good the damage she has caused but I'll now let the Police deal with the matter and hope that justice is done.
I'll let the Forum know the outcome in due course.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on April 09, 2012, 07:32:22 pm
Her insurance company will take a very dim view of her "hit and run" antics.  The premium will double and she will probably not get cover for this incident.    She needs to learn a lesson.      L0L   L0L
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Michael on April 09, 2012, 08:35:49 pm
I know I'm going a long way back in time but -- years ago it was generally thought that the Police wouldn't act if something happened in a car Park rather that the public highway.
  I was once involved in a car park accident, not my fault nor the damaged car. I was actually being towed by an r a c van! Then I was told that the Police didn't want to get involved because it was a car park.
  Does this still apply, indeed did it ever apply? Mike
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on April 09, 2012, 10:43:10 pm
Hi Mike,  an offence was committed when she hit my car and drove off without leaving any details even though it was in the car park.   It has also come to light following this that she has committed another offence and that too is being investigated.
I'll tell you all about it when I pop around to see you on the Golf Course.

PS     On a different note Mike, I saw your leaflet on the Great Orme Golf Course when I visited the Chip shop in Colwyn Avenue in Rhos and very impressive it was. Good luck for the coming season   $good$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Merddin Emrys on April 17, 2012, 11:26:24 am
keep your eyes peeled for camera vans! :o

Speeding drivers warned
16/04/2012
Motorists across North Wales are being warned that police officers will be out and about this week on a speed enforcement campaign.

The campaign is part of a Europe wide crackdown organised by TISPOL, the European Traffic Police Network, and is aimed at enforcing the speed limit for all vehicles and drawing media attention to the subject.

The campaign demonstrates the resolve of police forces across Europe in tackling the issue of excessive speed and to highlight to all drivers heightened chance of being prosecuted if caught speeding, especially during the campaign.

 http://www.north-wales.police.uk/news__appeals/latest_news/speeding_drivers_warned.aspx?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed (http://www.north-wales.police.uk/news__appeals/latest_news/speeding_drivers_warned.aspx?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed)

Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Nemesis on April 17, 2012, 11:33:44 am
Two vans this morning at about 10.30 in the 40mph area opposite Bodafon Fields.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Merddin Emrys on April 17, 2012, 12:20:09 pm
Two!?  One for each direction?  ???
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Nemesis on April 17, 2012, 02:59:29 pm
That's the idea,-- have seen them before but in the 30 limit area. Crafty move to catch drivers in both directions !
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on April 17, 2012, 06:51:34 pm
Two vans this morning at about 10.30 in the 40mph area opposite Bodafon Fields.

If you don't see the Arrive Alive Van and get caught there is only one person to blame - yourself.    Observation is one of the main features of driving!

The main thing to be careful of are the unmarked vehicles which vary from Skodas to MPV's.  Have a look on the Pistonheads Forum where there is a whole section on unmarked cars in North Wales. ££$

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=119&t=341112&mid=0&nmt=North+Wales+unmarked+Police+cars (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=119&t=341112&mid=0&nmt=North+Wales+unmarked+Police+cars)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: DaveR on April 17, 2012, 09:23:20 pm
Why would anyone need to worry about unmarked police cars unless they were intending to break the law?
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on April 17, 2012, 09:54:16 pm
We can all make the odd error!   Humans are not infallible.   Also there is not one car speedometer that reads accurately, so 'tis better to be safe than sorry.     ZXZ
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Merddin Emrys on April 17, 2012, 10:10:30 pm
Why would anyone need to worry about unmarked police cars unless they were intending to break the law?

We have too many speed limits (all over the uk) that have been lowered in recent years for no obvious reason, and the usual traffic travels faster than the limit, this is usually where the camera vans go to catch otherwise law abiding citizens  $angry$ Touch wood, I have not been caught for over 30 years, but it seems like a lottery (in reverse !)

I don't mind the unmarked cars as they will see the true maniacs as opposed to someone just pressing on a bit, but I do detest fixed cameras and camera vans :rage:
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on April 17, 2012, 11:36:51 pm
I thought that the previous Chief Inspector of Police must have come back out of retirement when I saw this!

I have fallen victim over the years on odd occasions to the fixed cameras, and also picked up a few fixed penalty notices from the parking attendants.

I am heartily sick of them to be honest, and I see them as merely additional tax collectors.

I hasten to add that I am an unwavering supporter of the police, but I hate speed cameras, and parking attendants.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: hollins on April 18, 2012, 08:41:55 am
My own opinion of the use of speed cameras is that it is lazy policing. The report of the two vans one on either side of the road confirms that to me.
I have been caught 4 times in my 42 years of driving. All of them were in a 30 limit. The highest speed recorded was 37 and the lowest 33mph.
One of them, I saw the van, looked at the speedo and saw that I was doing 28mph. I wrote and asked for the evidence which duly appeared with the date of when the camera was last tested. and a photo of my good self. In the end I gave up and went on the course, never again.
Apart from one girl in her twenties the whole room was made up of middle aged law abiding people. All except one were caught in a 30 doing around 35mph. Only one, a van driver was caught in a 40 doing 45mph.

Another time I had just dropped my mum off at her house in Cheshire. I passed two guys at
 the side of the road, neither in uniform. One of them had a camera on a tripod. I thought, surely it can’t be a speed camera, but sure enough, 12 days later a letter duly appeared.
This one really got me because one of the blokes looked like a member of the public. He was dressed in shorts and as they took the picture they both laughed.
Again I wrote in to complain but I got a letter back which was written in very poor English and  did not even attempt to answer my query. It just said they could not comment on the actions of the officer on that day.
I later learnt that on that day they had been stopping all the locals and taking them to a portakabin to watch a safety film and then letting them off with a warning.
I ended up paying the fine as usual.

I like to think that I drive to suit the conditions. You have to use your common sense.
Speed cameras in most situations do not take into account common sense.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on April 18, 2012, 08:55:28 am
My last speeding charge was in 2002 on the A55 coming down the Hill past Llysfaen.  I was stopped along with other vehicles by an unmarked maroon MPV.   With flashing lights he overtook everyone and motioned them to stop on the hard shoulder.   He then proceeded to book the lot!   His manoeuver was more dangerous than anything we were doing. 

And all we were doing was keeping up with the flow of the traffic.   £60 and 3 points made no difference to my Insurance Co.    ZXZ
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on April 18, 2012, 09:58:34 am
Speed cameras are surely one of the most contentious issues today.  One very significant problem is that they can actually increase risk by their very presence. A driver moving at about 30 mph becomes extremely concerned about accidentally moving to 33 - easily done, particularly if your concentration is elsewhere, such as watching every junction, hazard and other road users at the same time.  The only real options in that situation are either to slow down to a steady 25, which becomes immediately popular with those following, or glance down at the speedometer far more frequently than usual. That latter option means your attention is off the road for the second it takes to check the speedometer, and your eyes have to re-focus rapidly.

It can be argued that either option reduces the safety of other road users, so apart from angering a few otherwise decent drivers, what is the net gain, I wonder?.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Merddin Emrys on April 18, 2012, 10:13:17 am
They seem to be revenue earners, as Ian says you have to watch the speedometer like a hawk, you should be looking for hazards on the road, children about to step out from behind parked cars and one of my pet hates dogs not on a lead at the side of the road.
The other problem with these cameras is that it turns otherwise law abiding citizens against the police, as soon as I am driving I feel like a target, yet all four cars are fully legal, taxed, insured, mot ed etc, yet once behind the wheel it feels like they are out to get me, it's all the wrong way round  $angry$

But it seems we can have drunks, druggies, wandering about the streets and these scroungers selling these fake rag mags, big issues and that's all fine and dandy, not to me it isn't!  &shake&
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on April 18, 2012, 10:29:41 am
Hey Andy, at least you can't be accused of being paranoid... if they actually ARE out to get you!  :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Merddin Emrys on April 18, 2012, 10:43:37 am
  _))* good point, they really are out to get you!
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on June 07, 2012, 12:29:54 pm
My car was damaged in Morrisons Car Park by a woman who drove off without leaving her details.  The damage was estimated at between £300.00 and £500.00 pounds but there was a witness to the incident who gave me the car registration details but unfortunately the witness didn't leave their contact details for me.   The woman was interviewed by the Police but denied causing any damage even though the incident was caught on CCTV.  Paint samples were taken from my car but I have now been informed that  "There is insufficient evidence to take any action against the alleged offender"
I don't suppose that the paint samples have even been sent for analysis because of the incident being so minor in general terms so the woman has got away with it!     :rage:

Perhaps she hasn't got away completely because her insurance company has made a full and final settlement with me without making a claim and told me that my letters, photos etc will remain on her file so it will be interesting to see what happens when her insurance comes up for renewal.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Merddin Emrys on June 07, 2012, 01:36:40 pm
Glad it's sorted for you, such a shame that the Police can spend so long in their speed tax vans and not sorting out incidents like yours!
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on June 07, 2012, 04:35:24 pm
Thanks ME,  I had a feeling that it would end up like that so I'm glad that I sorted it out myself prior to receiving that letter from the Police.
Just for the record you can find out the name and address of the registered keeper of the vehicle from the DVLA for a small fee of £2.50 which I did and she did not advise the DVLA of a change of address which is an offence in itself but the Police did not address that issue either.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Merddin Emrys on June 07, 2012, 06:12:47 pm
Hugo, it seems that you have done all of the Police work yourself! It would seem reasonable if you held back the Police part of your council tax!  ££$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on June 13, 2012, 04:07:55 pm
Just an add on following an e-mail to the Police voicing my dissatisfaction at their decision. This is just part of the response
"You are quite correct the paint samples were not sent off for forensic comparison, unfortunately the great expense involved in this process, precludes us from using this line of investigation. Rightly or wrongly the powers that be have deemed that this resource is not to be used for minor road traffic collisions. It would have undoubtedly settled the issue one way or the other however if we were able to use it."
I can understand that and have every sympathy with the constraints placed on the Police but it does seem to me that Justice comes at a price!
What I cannot come to terms with is the fact that the Police cannot make the woman come in for an interview under caution, apparently they do not have the powers to force her to attend for the interview although she has possibly "perverted the course of Justice"
The Police do a good job under very difficult circumstances but what I have learned from this experience is that if a similar thing happens to me again I won't  bother with the Police but will do it myself.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: norman08 on June 13, 2012, 04:47:45 pm
maybe if they got rid of a few cars/vans that are parked in llan police station they ,d have the money that lazy they even drive to beckey chippy ,glad u were able to get it sorted  YOURSELF bri
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on June 13, 2012, 06:15:45 pm
Thanks Norman, it's been a nuisance but at least I'm not out of pocket with that settlement.    My letters are on the offenders insurance file so I would expect a hike up in premiums when her insurance comes up for renewal.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on August 14, 2012, 12:44:11 pm
This is a quotation from the Rhos-on-Sea and Penrhyn Bay Neighbourhood Watch Newsletter just received.  The subject matter is Clean up of the public areas.

" Rubbish in any road lowers its tone and can attract the lower elements of our society who not only tend to be the culprits, but also the perpetrators of petty crime."

What a wonderful, all embracing statement, almost certainly based on prejudice and a personal feeling of utter superiority.  Who is this person who, so cleverly, can label people and decide that one element of society is responsible for the dirty and unkempt state of our highways and byways?   Have a walk down Mostyn Street and see all the shopkeepers and their staff dropping their fag ends all over the pavement, are these are the lowest element of society?   Look at the overflowing waste bins being left by the Council to explode their contents amongst us, are they the lowest elements too?   Look at the unkempt and overgrown flower beds and communal areas, the sand ridden roads around West Shore, the dirty streets full of litter, the building that are total eyesores!  According to the commentator those responsible are the petty criminals in our society.  He or she needs to get out amongst the people and learn not to make such rash statements about the inhabitants of the town.

Any resident of Rhos-on-Sea or Penrhyn Bay should take umbrage at this all embracing generalisation of the populous of the area and demand an apology from the writer and all who agreed to the publication of such rubbish.

No doubt our Councillor Ann Yates, who is the representative for Penrhyn Bay, should be the first to say something.
 :rage:

Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Merddin Emrys on August 14, 2012, 02:08:43 pm
But they are not referring to Llandudno, the statement seems ok to me, backs up what I have seen!
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on August 14, 2012, 04:01:49 pm
Quote
the lower elements of our society

That certainly leaves an unpleasant taste.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on August 14, 2012, 05:02:03 pm
But they are not referring to Llandudno, the statement seems ok to me, backs up what I have seen!

Penrhyn Bay is in the Town of Llandudno and part of it!  I have never notice a great deal of litter around PB except on Bin Collection Days!  The worst road is Llanrhos Lane where most of the rubbish has been deposited courtesy of motorists!     :D
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Llechwedd on September 26, 2013, 01:17:37 pm
Anyone know which policeman is responsible for Craig-y-don now?  My cousin is being bothered by a young lad next door playing music until the early hours - also disturbing people in Victoria Avenue apparently.  His mates who visit all the time  are from the north of England and have been dumped in Kinmel Bay and [Edited by Sysadmin] but no evidence.  A social worker checks up on the lad but doesn't seem to do much.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Bri Roberts on September 26, 2013, 01:49:25 pm
I don't know who replaced PC Mike Smith in C-y-D, who was also a regular on our forum.

I suggest you contact PCSO Gail Starr on 07900227061 or e-mail her on Gail.Starr@nthwales.pnn.police.uk
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: born2run on September 26, 2013, 02:17:37 pm
Anyone know which policeman is responsible for Craig-y-don now?  My cousin is being bothered by a young lad next door playing music until the early hours - also disturbing people in Victoria Avenue apparently.  His mates who visit all the time  are from the north of England and have been dumped in Kinmel Bay and [Edited by Sysadmin] but no evidence.  A social worker checks up on the lad but doesn't seem to do much.

Why is his mates origin relevant? I believe the police will still check matters regardless of where the assailants mates hail are from.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on September 26, 2013, 06:23:41 pm
Anyone know which policeman is responsible for Craig-y-don now?  My cousin is being bothered by a young lad next door playing music until the early hours - also disturbing people in Victoria Avenue apparently.  His mates who visit all the time  are from the north of England and have been dumped in Kinmel Bay and [Edited by Sysadmin] but no evidence.  A social worker checks up on the lad but doesn't seem to do much.

Why is his mates origin relevant? I believe the police will still check matters regardless of where the assailants mates hail are from.

You're correct of course about the Police BTR  and I think Llechwedd was only emphasising the point that the area is becoming a dumping ground for undesirables.   Where ever they originate from is irrelevant, but I just wish that they would go back to wherever they came from and the sooner the better.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on September 27, 2013, 12:50:08 am
Anyone know which policeman is responsible for Craig-y-don now?  My cousin is being bothered by a young lad next door playing music until the early hours - also disturbing people in Victoria Avenue apparently.  His mates who visit all the time  are from the north of England and have been dumped in Kinmel Bay and [Edited by Sysadmin] but no evidence.  A social worker checks up on the lad but doesn't seem to do much.

Why is his mates origin relevant? I believe the police will still check matters regardless of where the assailants mates hail are from.

She is renowned for it B2R, she can't help herself.  &shake&
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on September 27, 2013, 08:12:03 am
Anyone know which policeman is responsible for Craig-y-don now?  My cousin is being bothered by a young lad next door playing music until the early hours - also disturbing people in Victoria Avenue apparently.  His mates who visit all the time  are from the north of England and have been dumped in Kinmel Bay and[Edited by Sysadmin] but no evidence.  A social worker checks up on the lad but doesn't seem to do much.

Why is his mates origin relevant? I believe the police will still check matters regardless of where the assailants mates hail are from.

She is renowned for it B2R, she can't help herself.  &shake&

Maybe Ms Llechwedd should consider her statements.  Anyone who cannot locate their local Beat Policeman should not make such sweeping statements about others.   How does she know they have been "dumped",  what does that mean?  Who dumped them, is there a special Government "dumping" Quango responsible for such matters?  Are they really "undesirables" as stated by another, or just being normal teenagers, doing just the same things as we used to do? 

It seems we are all too keen to blame and criticise and forget our own past, or even present, shortcomings!

If you are really worried about the noise contact the CCBC Environmental Services Department.   Or if it's drugs, the Police.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on September 27, 2013, 08:38:57 am
Llechwedd's post itself verges on the unacceptable because of the intimations regarding drugs and - even worse - the identification of the Avenue and area. I've edited the post accordingly, and would repeat the caution that Dave and I are liable for whatever is posted in here.

Notwithstanding that I agree with what others have said.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on September 27, 2013, 10:32:50 am
Quote
Maybe Ms Llechwedd should consider her statements.  Anyone who cannot locate their local Beat Policeman should not make such sweeping statements about others.   How does she know they have been "dumped",  what does that mean?  Who dumped them, is there a special Government "dumping" Quango responsible for such matters?  Are they really "undesirables" as stated by another, or just being normal teenagers, doing just the same things as we used to do? 

It seems we are all too keen to blame and criticise and forget our own past, or even present, shortcomings!

If you are really worried about the noise contact the CCBC Environmental Services Department.   Or if it's drugs, the Police.

Rightly or wrongly I assumed that the noise problem was a regular thing and if it is then it is unacceptable behaviour, whether they are teenagers or adults is irrelevant.
The law defines a nuisance as "an unlawful interference with a person's use or enjoyment of land or of some right over, or in connection, with it." The process of determining what level of noise constitutes a nuisance can be quite subjective. For instance, the level of noise, its length and timing may be taken into consideration in ascertaining whether a nuisance has actually occurred.

Yorkies advice is spot on and should be followed up if the person concerned still feels aggrieved and the only thing I can add is that the person keeps a record of the dates and times that these incidents occur.
The fact that the CCBC has not put restrictions on HMO's, contributes to part of the problem and to think otherwise is a bit naive.
Just as an add on, someone I know had a business in that area and was concerned about a large number of "suspicious" looking people that were continually walking down the side passage between his property and a flat.   He installed a CCTV camera and the problem soon disappeared.
.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Llechwedd on September 28, 2013, 10:01:47 am
Oh dear I do seem to have opened a can of worms and all I asked for was advice.  I will ignore Fester's unnecessarily offensive remarks.

It was the social worker who said that these men not your usual teen agers had been dumped in Rhyl .  He says he has enough to do without dealing with people from the north of England (another country) being a nuisance.  That's not racism by the way.

Mike Smith was most helpful and of course the police and environmental officers have been called and attended the neighbours are not completely thick!  But nothing seems to be happening which is why I askd for advice.  Sorry to have upset you all. :-X
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on September 28, 2013, 11:33:10 am
Quote
It was the social worker who said that these men not your usual teen agers had been dumped in Rhyl .  He says he has enough to do without dealing with people from the north of England (another country) being a nuisance.  That's not racism by the way.

Several points from that:

1.  If a Social Worker had used the phrase you say, they would have been liable to a disciplinary hearing.
2.  How do you know he was a Social Worker? Social Workers are professionally qualified individuals who work within specific teams.  Which team did he work for? What was his name? How did he back up this assertion that they'd been 'dumped'?
3.  Interesting you see the 'North of England' as being another country. I thought we were all part of the United Kingdom, comprised of several smaller nationalistic states: England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. As far as I know, Sottish, English and N Irish blood is red, and believe it or not the denizens of those areas can actually donate blood to those living in Wales without killing them.
4.  You say those contacted - the Police, Environmental officers, 'Social Workers' - were unable to do anything. How on earth, if the representatives of all the legally empowered bodies can't achieve what you want, do you expect anyone in here to be able to help? Or are you proposing a 3T vigilante group?

Quote
I will ignore Fester's unnecessarily offensive remarks.

Oddly, it wasn't Fester's comments I found offensive. I did, however, find identifying a road, insinuating drugs might have been taken, implying the statutory bodies were utterly helpless and that somehow the rest of the United Kingdom is a separate entity to be offensive, ill-informed and bigoted. I look forward to a public apology to all the members of the 3Ts forum whose ancestry originated in India or Kenya.  Oh wait - that's everyone.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on September 28, 2013, 12:05:07 pm
And don't forget those of us wot is half Yorkshire and half Dutch, with a large amount of Cockney influence thrown in!   We'se important too!   $uk
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Big Alan on September 28, 2013, 04:29:09 pm
And us Scousers, oh hang on, that's probably who the dig was aimed at.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Minime on September 28, 2013, 08:09:19 pm

Quote
It was the social worker who said that these men not your usual teen agers had been dumped in Rhyl .  He says he has enough to do without dealing with people from the north of England (another country) being a nuisance.  That's not racism by the way.

Se
Quote
veral points from that:

1.  If a Social Worker had used the phrase you say, they would have been liable to a disciplinary

Really???


Quote
2.  How do you know he was a Social Worker? Social Workers are professionally qualified individuals who work within specific teams.  Which team did he work for? What was his name? How did he back up this assertion that they'd been 'dumped'?



I think the SW may have been venting frustration.  What if these lads had a SW in another authority and then rocked up in the local authority.  SW number 1 would probably close the case faster than a rat up a drainpipe ergo your problem now.  I imagine this happens lots you know go live by the seaside...  Adults can choose where they want to live and so long as the original authority didnt arrange the housing, placement or whatever then its over to the new authority to fund them.  City teams get a lot of this too, people just rock up on the trains with no fixed abode, physical and mental disabilities so the local authority has to deal with it as they have chosen that place as ordinary residence.   This doesnt go for people subject to s117 mental health act as all the port authorites get way more than their fare share.



Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on September 28, 2013, 08:20:09 pm
Quote
I think the SW may have been venting frustration.  What if these lads had a SW in another authority and then rocked up in the local authority.  SW number 1 would probably close the case faster than a rat up a drainpipe ergo your problem now.  I imagine this happens lots you know go live by the seaside...  Adults can choose where they want to live and so long as the original authority didnt arrange the housing, placement or whatever then its over to the new authority to fund them.  City teams get a lot of this too, people just rock up on the trains with no fixed abode, physical and mental disabilities so the local authority has to deal with it as they have chosen that place as ordinary residence.   This doesnt go for people subject to s117 mental health act as all the port authorites get way more than their fare share.

There are several points which you make which are wrong.  Until we have evidence that the person concerned was, in fact, a Social Worker, then it's pointless to speculate. Adults, BTW, do not normally have Social Workers unless they fall into one of a specific number of categories. And no professional SW would "vent frustration" in that way.  Too many people out to get them.


Quote
   This doesnt go for people subject to s117 mental health act as all the port authorites get way more than their fare share

Do you mean Section 7?



Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Minime on September 28, 2013, 08:42:36 pm
Which several points?

No I mean 117 aftercare.  Say you live in chester then have a weekend away in rhyl and have a mental breakdown and get sectioned then the s2 turns into a s3 after some treatment etc.  Then you needed after care then it used to be the authority that sectioned you had to foot the bill however the authorities with ports, cities etc got this way too much with out of townies so theyve recently amended that to ordinary residence being responsible for the funding.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on September 28, 2013, 09:01:33 pm
No I mean 117 aftercare.  Say you live in chester then have a weekend away in rhyl and have a mental breakdown and get sectioned then the s2 turns into a s3 after some treatment etc.  Then you needed after care then it used to be the authority that sectioned you had to foot the bill however the authorities with ports, cities etc got this way too much with out of townies so theyve recently amended that to ordinary residence being responsible for the funding.

Sorry to be pedantic, but I cannot understand what you are talking about, despite my interest in the thread.  Your last sentence is pure gobbledegook.    :o
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Minime on September 28, 2013, 09:21:06 pm
In a nutshell if someone with needs decides to rock up in your local authority and makes the choice do that then the local authority have to pick up the tab if they have care needs.

However if you get someone rock up for the weekend then get sectionned and they end up on a 117 aftercare its the authority they came from funds it ie they might need to go in a home
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on September 29, 2013, 12:40:54 am
Nope, I'm no wiser.  ?{}?

Llechwedd, I think it is quite sad that you can't see that the only person causing any offence is you!

Your comments are very reminiscent of a 1970's sit com.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on September 29, 2013, 07:27:20 am
Sorry, Minime;  still can't follow what you're trying to say.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Bri Roberts on September 29, 2013, 08:11:40 am
Anyone know which policeman is responsible for Craig-y-don now? 

I don't know who replaced PC Mike Smith in C-y-D, who was also a regular on our forum.

I suggest you contact PCSO Gail Starr on 07900227061 or e-mail her on Gail.Starr@nthwales.pnn.police.uk

Whatever happened to those two small words?

"Thank you."  &shake&
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on September 29, 2013, 09:36:46 am
In a nutshell if someone with needs decides to rock up in your local authority and makes the choice do that then the local authority have to pick up the tab if they have care needs.

However if you get someone rock up for the weekend then get sectionned and they end up on a 117 aftercare its the authority they came from funds it ie they might need to go in a home

Am I thick or what?  What is "rock up" ?  Some sort of new dance craze? 

I am still none the wiser!  >>>
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Blongb on September 29, 2013, 04:21:20 pm
Yorkie you'll have to learn yourself young folks speak, in it. They can't use or write the Queens English.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Tosh on September 29, 2013, 04:38:22 pm
To Rock up, is to turn up, Simple.  8)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on September 29, 2013, 04:53:09 pm
Yorkie you'll have to learn yourself young folks speak, in it. They can't use or write the Queens English.

I do txt spk, backslang, Cockney Rhyming, old english, and some Welsh, amid my German, French, Portuguese and a few other lingos (in part).  I have mixed with youngsters and been on the street but this is new to me!

Reminds me that once I went out with a girl who had a stutter, and by the time she said she wouldn't, she had!   :D

Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on September 29, 2013, 05:00:22 pm
To Rock up, is to turn up, Simple.  8)

Thank you for your admirable translation.  The word will live in my vocabulary for ever!    ;D
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Minime on September 29, 2013, 05:26:24 pm
In a nutshell if someone with needs decides to rock up in your local authority and makes the choice do that then the local authority have to pick up the tab if they have care needs.

However if you get someone rock up for the weekend then get sectionned and they end up on a 117 aftercare its the authority they came from funds it ie they might need to go in a home

Am I thick or what?  What is "rock up" ?  Some sort of new dance craze? 

I am still none the wiser!  >>>

Rock up basically decide to go somewhere without giving much thought or planning.  Back in yonder day our parents planned every trip with military precision, now we just jump in the car and rock up somewhere as there will always be facilities on the way
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Minime on September 29, 2013, 05:28:45 pm
What is craig-y-don btw?  Is this area/housing estate?  Google maps didn't like it but guess its over llandudno way?
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on September 29, 2013, 06:35:06 pm
What is craig-y-don btw?  Is this area/housing estate?  Google maps didn't like it but guess its over llandudno way?

Simplest explanation is that its a part of Llandudno, a bit like The Bronx is to the Big Apple. Right?   :D
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Michael on September 29, 2013, 09:23:06 pm
    Just caught up with the TTF over the last few days. Saw this thread making all the airwaves.
   I havent really got a clue what its all about, but boy, it hasn't half got you all going.
   Its taken me fifteen minutes just reading it all. And now I'm not much wiser,
Mike
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on September 29, 2013, 11:12:35 pm
Me too Mike.     &shake&
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on September 29, 2013, 11:29:41 pm
To Rock up, is to turn up, Simple.  8)

Thank you for your admirable translation.  The word will live in my vocabulary for ever!    ;D

It will obtain you a sizeable score in Scrabble, (assuming you get the K on the triple letter square!)  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Minime on October 02, 2013, 09:55:43 pm
What is craig-y-don btw?  Is this area/housing estate?  Google maps didn't like it but guess its over llandudno way?

Simplest explanation is that its a part of Llandudno, a bit like The Bronx is to the Big Apple. Right?   :D

Every area has its bronx I guess.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: DaveR on October 03, 2013, 08:19:32 am
Yorkie's analogy was well meant but slightly flawed, as the Bronx is renowned (in the main, these days,wrongly) for being a very high crime area.

Craig Y Don is a very quiet, mainly residential area with a selection of shops & cafes. It's a very pleasant place.

Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: born2run on October 03, 2013, 12:16:29 pm
Yorkie's analogy was well meant but slightly flawed, as the Bronx is renowned (in the main, these days,wrongly) for being a very high crime area.

Craig Y Don is a very quiet, mainly residential area with a selection of shops & cafes. It's a very pleasant place.

Used to be. 'till the govenment started dumping all sorts of northerners there  :'(
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on October 03, 2013, 01:35:33 pm
I have had a comment deleted!   Nice!

Seems that some are allowed to criticise but don't like a little bit in return.




Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: DaveR on October 03, 2013, 01:54:06 pm
I have had a comment deleted!   Nice!

Seems that some are allowed to criticise but don't like a little bit in return.
No-one has deleted any comments, Yorkie. I've just looked at the Moderation Log and the last entry is from Sept 30th, deleting a Spam user.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on October 03, 2013, 02:04:10 pm
Sometimes postings fail. I've lost a couple for no obvious reason.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on October 03, 2013, 04:16:04 pm
In that case I will NOT repeat it for the possibility of offending someone.  I got it off my chest so that made me feel better anyway!    >>>

My IP address has been dramatically changed so that could be a reason.  See if this gets through.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on October 03, 2013, 05:00:56 pm
Yorkie's analogy was well meant but slightly flawed, as the Bronx is renowned (in the main, these days,wrongly) for being a very high crime area.

Craig Y Don is a very quiet, mainly residential area with a selection of shops & cafes. It's a very pleasant place.

Used to be. 'till the govenment started dumping all sorts of northerners there  :'(

BTR, WTF are you on about?
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on October 03, 2013, 09:43:02 pm
Twas a joke, Fester...
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on October 03, 2013, 09:48:14 pm
Twas a joke, Fester...

As Kenny Everett used to say, "All in the best possible taste!"   :D

Or sometimes, not all the time!   :P
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on October 04, 2013, 11:06:05 pm
Twas a joke, Fester...

I'm never sure with BTR,  you see he has 'reliability' issues.... (he knows what I mean)  :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on June 10, 2014, 01:41:49 pm
Today I discovered quite by accident that Calls to the Police on 101 are charged at a fixed cost of 15 pence per call.   I thought Police Services were funded from the extortionate Council and Police Tax we pay! 

In that case if someone nicks my car, I wont tell them, so there!    ZXZ
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on July 01, 2014, 11:56:53 am
Police out in force on Cayley Promenade in Rhos on Sea today.  Anyone know anything?  Or is it a similar exercise to the one they did in March 2010 that upset a lot of motorists?   
 ^*^0
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Bri Roberts on July 01, 2014, 02:07:21 pm
I just walked around the Great Orme and a police car with at least 3 Officers twice passed me.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on July 23, 2014, 06:34:15 pm
I just walked around the Great Orme and a police car with at least 3 Officers twice passed me.

If you want to be arrested, you have to wave them down! WWW
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Bri Roberts on July 23, 2014, 08:25:34 pm
Yorkie, that post was made because of what you had just seen in R-o-S.  &shake&
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Yorkie on July 23, 2014, 08:31:33 pm
Yorkie, that post was made because of what you had just seen in R-o-S.  &shake&

I know that, and you know that, but my comment was just a light hearted response to your old post! 

Got to keep my average up!
 ZXZ
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: SteveH on October 07, 2014, 05:58:24 pm
Stop publishing crime stats, says police union chief

Police forces should stop publishing crime statistics because they give the public the wrong impression, a police union leader has said.
The UK Statistics Authority, the watchdog that oversees the publication of official data, said in January it could no longer approve crime figures based on information recorded by the police in England and Wales.

It found evidence that forces had been undercounting crime - due to human error, poor training and dealing with incidents informally - or, in some cases, massaging the figures to meet performance targets.
There has also been criticism that some crimes - such as four million examples of credit card fraud every year - are not included in the official figures.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29515807 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29515807)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: mull on October 08, 2014, 11:14:08 am
Never trusted Police Crime figures since the following happened a few years ago.
Someone started dipping into my bank account which fortunately I spotted very quickly andput a stop to, but not before they had helped themselves to the following,
£10 top up on a mobile phone
£80 on party items at Clinton Cards
£280 shopping at ASDA.
Investigations by my wife managed to find out off ASDA an address in Brierley Hill, Birmingham that the shopping had been delivered to. A look on Earth Scout revealed it was in a block of flats.
We tried to pass this information on to West Midlands Police but they refused to take any details off us saying it was a matter for them but should be done by the Credit Card company.
Presume West Midlands Police did not want the crime appearing on their statistics even though it happened in their area.

Is this sort of crime now so prevalent that no one is interested in it ?
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: SteveH on October 08, 2014, 11:55:41 am
Hi Mull,  " Is this sort of crime now so prevalent that no one is interested in it ?"

"There has also been criticism that some crimes - such as four million examples of credit card fraud every year - are not included in the official figures."

 Short answer ....Apparently..... $angry$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: SteveH on November 01, 2014, 10:54:31 am
The government is planning to scrap the use of police cautions - where those who commit minor offences are given a formal warning - in England and Wales.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29859758 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29859758)

Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: born2run on November 04, 2014, 12:06:00 pm
"The overhaul of what are known as out-of-court disposals will mean cannabis warnings, community resolutions, penalty notices for disorder, simple cautions and conditional cautions would be replaced by the new two-tier framework.

As part of the scheme, first-time offenders committing minor crimes would face a new statutory community resolution.

This could see them offering a verbal or written apology to their victim, paying compensation or fixing damage."



"cannabis warnings" - who exactly will they have to say sorry to? And what damage has been done?
POINTLESS and not thought through yet again  $good$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: SteveH on March 13, 2017, 01:12:21 pm
This looks interesting...

Should North Wales take leaf out of Portugal's book to combat drugs epidemic?
The North Wales Police and Crime Commissioner has been to Lisbon to see how they tackle narcotics.

Mr Jones, a former police inspector, spent four days filming in the Portuguese capital with a TV crew from the BBC Wales current affairs programme Week In Week Out entitled Cop-out on Drugs, to be screened at 10.40pm on BBC1 Wales tomorrow evening.......  . .......The cost of the trip was met by the BBC.  $good$

We looked at how drug users are actually dealt with. If a police officer stops someone in the street who has cannabis on them if they have less than 10 days’ supply they are referred to what’s called a dissuasion commission which will then decide how to deal with them.

“If they are identified as a non-problematical or recreational user, as is mostly the case with cannabis and with 90 per cent of drug users in most countries, they give them information on the dangers of taking drugs and also a suspended sanction which means no action is taken against them.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/should-north-wales-take-leaf-12733004 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/should-north-wales-take-leaf-12733004)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: SteveH on April 04, 2017, 12:07:57 pm
 :-}}}         $booboo$

Offender's £45k phone bill paid by North Wales Police.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-39488370 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-39488370)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on April 04, 2017, 05:19:47 pm
:-}}}         $booboo$

Offender's £45k phone bill paid by North Wales Police.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-39488370 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-39488370)

I read that story Steve, it beggars belief..... is there no end to the incompetence and waste of our money?
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: SteveH on April 04, 2017, 05:59:37 pm
Offender's £45k phone bill paid by North Wales Police.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-39488370 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-39488370)
I read that story Steve, it beggars belief..... is there no end to the incompetence and waste of our money?
We could start a new thread, and list them all, but it would make depressing reading.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on April 16, 2017, 12:23:54 pm
I'm surprised that there has been no further mention of the woman driver who hit a woman on a zebra crossing by the hospital in Llandudno on 24th March 2017.
Apart from describing the vehicle as being a small maroon car, the woman was described as being in her 50's or 60's with a bob style haircut and wearing a maroon coloured anorak.
Surely there should also be enough CCTV cameras in that area to identify the car and driver and after all the Police know the time and date of that incident.   I believe that the lady victim had to have surgery after the hit and run incident so I hope that she has made a good recovery and that the driver is soon found.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: mondie on May 14, 2017, 09:10:29 pm
As some of you may know we are moving to the area and looking for a house. One we are considering is in Lloyd St, trawling the net for info on the area I was amazed to see this map of crime in the area in the past 6 mths. Am I naieve, or is this typical?

Cheers Simon
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Bri Roberts on May 14, 2017, 09:27:15 pm
FYI, that radius is more like one mile and not a quarter of a mile.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on May 15, 2017, 08:36:08 am
Read it in more detail, Simon. The problem with quick-fix graphics like that is that it's what they don't say which is most important.  This is showing the reported incidents over a six month period. Given that it covers the most densely populated area of Llandudno what stands out is how few reported incidents there are.

So the next stage is to define each category. You can start by eliminating the anti-social behaviour category. Not only has Llandudno generally got a very low tolerance for that sort of thing, so that many might simply be Fester shouting at someone after 11pm, because every instance that's reported is logged it appears far worse than it is. Antisocial behaviour is  more in the eye of the beholder than a statutory offence.

The next category is very difficult to define, because it gives no details. Violence is easy, but 'sexual offences' can be almost anything, from someone browsing sites they shouldn't to far more serious things. But again  - no details.

Then the list of offences almost vanishes.  Criminal damage and arson, for instance: quite a difference between someone scratching the side of a car and setting a house on fire. And, frankly, I can't believe that Llandudno's main shopping area has only one shoplifting incident every six months.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on May 15, 2017, 12:27:10 pm
Ha ha... Ian, I try to curtail my 'shouting' by 22.59pm, so not guilty M,lud.

Now, more seriously, Lloyd St is very central indeed, and the houses toward the Oval are very nice indeed, but you very quickly get into the Lloyd St near Londis which has all the multiple occupancy flats and bedsits.
The Townhouse and Cross Keys pubs are right there, not the most salubrious establishments (I should know, I go in them), and they can be noisy even after 1am.

I would happily live at the West End of Lloyd St, but less so the North, which is the big right in the centre of town.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: mondie on May 15, 2017, 09:12:44 pm
Good discussion thanks  :D

I am sceptical of maps that plot data like this and Bri you are right to point out the scaling error. I am staying in a guest house in Trinity St at the moment and you definitely get a different feel for the streets by being just a few blocks closer to Mostyn St. Seems to be plenty of thicko loudmouths around at times, guess they are here for a lager holiday. It is good to hear the police apply a zero tolerance approach to any anti-social behaviour, that is an imperative I think to protect the town's main gig - tourism.

This map originally came up when I was searching for any arson reports on the house we are looking to rent which has had a shed fire. Locals will know it as the semi-detached property at the end of Lloyd st right next to the cricket ground.

Cheers
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Fester on May 15, 2017, 10:47:48 pm
I often park just by that house Mondie,  perfectly central between both shores when the town is busy and I've stuff to do.
Enjoy your new place!
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Quiggs on May 20, 2017, 04:05:52 pm
Next to the Bowling Club, pop in for a game, or just watch the play. Ask for Eric  $walesflag$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on May 21, 2017, 05:18:44 pm
This vehicle's MOT expired nearly 7 years ago but what are the Police doing about it now?
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Merddin Emrys on May 21, 2017, 05:32:21 pm
Strange, still taxed but failed it's last mot back in 2009 !  How is it still on the road?

GOV.UK
Vehicle MOT History
BETA This is a new service – your feedback will help us to improve it.
Check the MOT history of a vehicle
Registration number: EU03FGV
 
Vehicle makeMERCEDES Vehicle modelSPRINTER Date first used1 June 2003 Fuel typeDiesel ColourWhite
 
MOT history of this vehicle
Test date2 June 2009 Test ResultFail Odometer reading74,763 miles MOT test number5846 2375 9162 Reason(s) for failure
Nearside Headlamp aim aimed so that it dazzles other road users (1.8.A.1a)
Advisory notice item(s)
Front brake disc slightly pitted (3.5.1h)
Rear Exhaust has part of the system slightly deteriorated (7.1.1a)
Rear Anti-roll bar rubber bush deteriorated but not resulting in excessive movement (2.4.G.2)
Offside Front Suspension arm has slight play in a ball joint (2.4.G.2)
Headlamp masks/converters fitted
signs of a fuel leak around top of fuel tank
presenter asked to remove items of dash and around mirror
Test date2 June 2009 Expiry date4 June 2010 Test ResultPass Odometer reading74,763 miles MOT test number1806 3375 9147 Advisory notice item(s)
Front brake disc slightly pitted (3.5.1h)
Rear Exhaust has part of the system slightly deteriorated (7.1.1a)
Rear Anti-roll bar rubber bush deteriorated but not resulting in excessive movement (2.4.G.2)
Offside Front Suspension arm has slight play in a ball joint (2.4.G.2)
Headlamp masks/converters fitted
signs of a fuel leak around top of fuel tank
presenter asked to remove items of dash and around mirror
Test date2 June 2008 Expiry date4 June 2009 Test ResultPass Odometer reading64,976 miles MOT test number6310 2465 8104
Test date5 June 2007 Expiry date4 June 2008 Test ResultPass Odometer reading45,351 miles MOT test number2645 1625 7475
Test date5 June 2006 Expiry date4 June 2007 Test ResultPass Odometer reading28,156 miles MOT test number4923 4625 6182
Search again
 
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Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Merddin Emrys on May 21, 2017, 05:38:11 pm
It is not showing as insured either, perhaps it has been off the road for years and a computer system automatically pays the car tax?  All very odd! 
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on May 21, 2017, 05:39:50 pm
Very strange indeed ME      ???              This is a copy of the DVLA instructions but what can or will they do?


Report a vehicle with no MOT
Call the police’s non-emergency number to report a car, van, motorcycle or other vehicle that doesn’t have an MOT.
You need the vehicle’s:

number plate (registration)
make and model
colour
location
Police non-emergency number
Telephone: 101
24-hour service
Find out about call charges


I've just checked the vehicle again using "car tax checker"  on the DVLA database and the vehicle is on the road.  The road tax is due on 1st June 2017  and the MOT   expired on 4th June 2010
It will be interesting to see what happens in June.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Bosun on May 21, 2017, 06:01:20 pm
Police vehicles maintained in an approved workshop do not require an MOT.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/declaration-of-exemption-from-mot (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/declaration-of-exemption-from-mot)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Merddin Emrys on May 21, 2017, 06:47:21 pm
That explains it then !
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on May 21, 2017, 06:51:50 pm
Thanks Bosun for posting the link, it was interesting to see all the other instances when vehicles don't need a MOT.     
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: mull on May 21, 2017, 07:30:24 pm
Dont see the reasoning behind some of these exemptions.
Last year Order of St John presented a new Land Rover Defender to Oban Mountain Rescue Team. One of the last Defenders to come off the production line.

Last month this nearly new vehicle had to go for an MOT. Reason is, it is classed as an ambulance.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: mondie on May 28, 2017, 03:21:14 pm
Next to the Bowling Club, pop in for a game, or just watch the play. Ask for Eric  $walesflag$

I just may do that Eric, it looks like we are taking the house and moving in a couple of weeks  D)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on November 12, 2018, 05:22:33 pm
I was driving from Colwyn Bay to Llandudno this afternoon and on the promenade just past Rhos Point I saw a car that had been badly damaged and it must have been involved in a crash.
There was no ambulance on the scene but there were four Police cars in attendance which seemed strange, but there may be a reason why so many Police Officers were on the scene.
Later on I drove past the Llandrillo College and the Arrive Alive van was parked in its usual spot but the traffic was moving very slowly as the students were leaving the College at the time.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: SteveH on November 27, 2018, 11:55:36 am
A big discussion on mental health and the Police on the news this morning, I found this BBC article interesting.

Five people racked up 8,655 calls to the Metropolitan Police in 2017 - costing £70,000 to answer.
What did the top five repeat callers have in common? Mental health problems.


A watchdog for police forces in England and Wales released the figure to show how police have become the "default" service to deal with mental health.
Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire and Rescue Service claims the broader mental health system is "broken".

Continued  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46347767 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46347767)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: SteveH on November 28, 2018, 11:56:17 am
Continued from above.

“For the near future, North Wales Police and the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board ( BCUHB) have secured Welsh Assembly Government funding to embed a mental health triage unit in the force control room to provide expert advice to officers 16 hours per day when they are dealing with individuals suffering a mental health crisis.

News of the move comes after a report that highlighted that forces across the UK were increasingly having to deal with mental health-related issues but that officers did not always have the skills or expertise to deal with such crises.
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/mental-health-experts-deployed-police-15473470 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/mental-health-experts-deployed-police-15473470)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on November 28, 2018, 01:39:03 pm
On a different issue, the other evening I was driving down the A55 to go to Deganwy and came off the road and approached the Tesco roundabout.
Anyone who uses this road will know that there are two lanes by the approach to the roundabout and are clearly marked with arrows. The left lane directs the traffic to Tesco while the right lane is for the traffic going straight on or turning right to the Cinema complex.
Anyway as I got to the roundabout I had to stop to allow a car to go to Tesco and as I set off a 4 x4  undertook me in the left hand lane and then cut me up before going in front.
I had to brake suddenly and unfortunately I do not have a dash cam in that car or otherwise I'd have reported the driver to the Police.   I've talked about getting a dash cam before but now I'll get one before the end of this week.   At least it will provide the evidence in the event of other dangerous driving that may happen
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Neil on November 28, 2018, 03:40:28 pm
(Anyone who uses this road will know that there are two lanes by the approach to the roundabout and are clearly marked with arrows)
I think this is the most important sentence in your statement. A lot of the drivers in this area are on holiday and don’t know the roads, we should make allowances for them. I have a dashcam but would not consider reporting anybody for such a trivial mistake. Have you ever been in the wrong lane when driving in a unfamiliar area?
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on November 28, 2018, 06:52:49 pm
That's very magnanimous of you Neil considering that it wasn't you that had to brake suddenly to avoid a crash when someone was carrying  out an illegal and dangerous manoeuvre at night time.
What makes you jump to the conclusion that the driver was on holiday or in an unfamiliar area?     
I came home a different way and to my surprise found that the driver lives in Deganwy and the vehicle was parked outside his house.   The car was legally taxed and MOT'd,   it's just a pity that his driving wasn't legal too
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on December 01, 2018, 09:13:35 am
I have to say I find it worrying - and odd - when people seek to excuse ropey - and potentially dangerous - driving as 'trivial'. Wonder if they'd have the same response if a couple of kids threw a brick through their house windows?
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on December 01, 2018, 10:10:23 am
We are all entitled to an opinion on whether an incident is trivial or not, but at the end of the day the victim is the only one who knows whether it is trivial or not.    I was lucky because my quick reaction and the fact that the road was dry prevented a serious accident happening.
I’ve tried to understand what makes a local man who is obviously familiar with that particular road drive in such a reckless  and dangerous manner.     Was it drugs or drink or just the antics of a bully boy driving a large 4 x 4 but whatever the reason this type of driving should not be acceptable on the road
Would I report someone driving like that again if I had a dash cam?     You bet I would and I’d leave it up to the experts, namely the Police to decide if the incident was trivial or not

Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Neil on December 01, 2018, 02:41:04 pm
You haven’t answered the question Hugo!
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on December 01, 2018, 02:58:34 pm
You haven’t answered the question Hugo!

Then what is the question you want answering Neil?
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on December 01, 2018, 05:32:08 pm
That question was

Quote
Have you ever been in the wrong lane when driving in a unfamiliar area?

In my case I could answer "yes", and - as any competent and intelligent driver ought - I continued in the lane I'd selected if there was anyone to my side or behind and returned to my route from whatever detour I'd inadvertently taken when it was safe to do so. This isn't about accidentally being in the wrong lane; it's all about how that error is rectified.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Neil on December 01, 2018, 10:35:08 pm
Let’s draw a line under this. My attitude is probably because I have done most of my driving in big city’s.
I would just like to say it’s been a pleasure driving in this area for the last 7 years.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on December 01, 2018, 10:54:41 pm
Let’s draw a line under this. My attitude is probably because I have done most of my driving in big city’s.
I would just like to say it’s been a pleasure driving in this area for the last 7 years.

I agree Neil,  it doesn't solve anything and anyway you can't compare driving in the wrong lane in an unfamiliar area,  to a local man driving in a familiar road in a reckless and dangerous manner.

Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Mike on December 03, 2018, 06:35:15 pm
I think the road marking there is a problem. Normally the left lane is for left or straight on, the right for going around the roundabout to the right. But at that roundabout to go straight on you wait in the right lane.
Anyone not familiar with it would naturally be in the left lane for going straight on. Also anyone waiting to turn from Tesco to Conwy/Deganwy would normally expect the traffic in the right hand lane to be going around the roundabout, meaning they should be able to emerge. They would have to know the area to be aware of this rounabout peculiarities.
People not indicating any more hinders this further.

I'm guessing it was designed that way before the cinema/fast food outlets appeared, and most traffic was either Tesco or straight on.

Think it should be put back to standard layout.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on December 03, 2018, 08:23:10 pm
Sorry to have to correct you Mike but the left lane has two arrows before the roundabout and both point to the left to Tesco.
The right hand lane also has two arrows and both point straight on towards Deganwy
Any traffic going in the right hand lane to the cinema complex should have to indicate that they are turning right.
Any one unfamiliar with the area should drive accordingly and follow the direction markings
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: SteveH on August 29, 2019, 01:12:22 pm
Policing boss says some drug crimes 'as good as decriminalised' in North Wales
Police and Crime Commissioner Arfon Jones said other forms of justice are the way forward on drug crimes.

Mr Jones said that many forces in the England and Wales were no longer choosing to prosecute for possession of drugs, and this amounted to a de-facto decriminalisation of the problem.

More.......... https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/policing-boss-says-drug-crimes-16831842 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/policing-boss-says-drug-crimes-16831842)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on August 29, 2019, 01:41:34 pm
It's ludicrous that some drugs are still illegal. Legalising the lot would raise treasury income at a stroke, get rid of most of the illegal trade and the violence and corruption that follows and create new high street businesses. Forget brexit;  you could fund the NHS entirely on drug taxation.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: SteveH on December 19, 2019, 11:10:51 am
Policing boss says some drug crimes 'as good as decriminalised' in North Wales
Police and Crime Commissioner Arfon Jones said other forms of justice are the way forward on drug crimes.
Mr Jones said that many forces in the England and Wales were no longer choosing to prosecute for possession of drugs, and this amounted to a de-facto decriminalisation of the problem.
More.......... https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/policing-boss-says-drug-crimes-16831842 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/policing-boss-says-drug-crimes-16831842)
It's ludicrous that some drugs are still illegal. Legalising the lot would raise treasury income at a stroke, get rid of most of the illegal trade and the violence and corruption that follows and create new high street businesses. Forget brexit;  you could fund the NHS entirely on drug taxation.

I have been considering changing, my perhaps old fashioned  views on drug laws, perhaps follow the way Holland deals with them, not so sure now, after reading this ........

Is the Netherlands becoming a narco-state?
By Anna Holligan
BBC News, The Hague

Quote from the piece ...
"How big is the Dutch drug problem?
The Netherlands has in a sense created the perfect environment for the drugs trade to flourish.

With its extensive transport network, its lenient drug laws and penalties, and its proximity to a number of lucrative markets, it is an obvious hub for the global narcotics flow."

Full article  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50821542 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50821542)


Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on December 19, 2019, 11:49:51 am
That article puts the real issue front and centre: the Dutch have effectively decriminalised minor drugs but haven't taken the essential step of legalising supply and distribution. That's what needs to happen to prevent the criminal gangs from profiteering.

When we were walking round Amsterdam it was surprising just how difficult it was to find cakes with cannabis, for example. To some extent, they're still almost underground. My argument's long been two pronged: criminalising the people who take drugs doesn't work. Never has, either, but what it does do is encourage illicit supply.

The second prong is simply that because we know - conclusively - that criminalising drug users and suppliers has no effect at all, and because it's patently absurd that any supermarket is free to sell psychoactive and dangerous drugs on its shelves in the form of alcohol, then we need to grow up as a society and legalise supply and demand of all drugs, then add tax, before making their sale subject to the same restrictions imposed on sales of alcohol.  The treasury benefits, which means we as taxpayers benefit and illicit drugs are controlled far more than they are at present.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on December 19, 2019, 12:17:21 pm
The key is making drugs part of the overall Alcohol / tobacco framework. There is another aspect, too; currently, to buy alcohol or tobacco a person has to prove their age. One the supply, and hence the quality, of drugs is brought in-house, as it were. then adults are free to make their own decisions as to what they want to buy.  There is, let's face it, no justification for treating alcohol differently to any drug.  It's certainly as dangerous and addictive - for some.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: SteveH on December 19, 2019, 12:48:10 pm
Ian, I think the only thing that is clear is the size of the problem, your comment re "legalising supply and distribution" makes sense, but I hate to think how long it will take to control, definitely not soon enough.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on December 19, 2019, 01:34:12 pm
You're probably right; it took them a while to sort out the illicit alcohol supply issues.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on December 20, 2019, 05:44:46 pm
I've just read a disturbing bit of news involving a three car crash in South Wales and that the driver of the Ford involved in the crash had fled the scene.    Det Sgt Huw O'Connell, said: "To leave the scene of an accident, especially when someone is seriously injured, is a particularly callous thing to do, and I would urge that individual to hand themselves in to explain their actions.
"The events of that evening must be weighing heavily on their conscience and it is only a matter of time before we catch up with them.
"In particular, I'd like information on the person who was driving the white Ford Fiesta, registration ST11 KUX, at the time of the collision.

It took me a couple of minutes to find out that the road tax on that Ford car ran out on the 1st January 2019 so the Police and the DVLA already know the name and address of the owner of the vehicle and if the DVLA had done its job properly that vehicle could have been taken off the road before the accident happened.
it is a similar story with the North Wales Police too who when advised of a car with no MOT ( and road tax  ) do not act on the information supplied and allow the vehicle to continue to be driven on the roads

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-50872650?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/wales/north_west_wales&link_location=live-reporting-story (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-50872650?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/wales/north_west_wales&link_location=live-reporting-story)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Bri Roberts on December 20, 2019, 07:58:01 pm
Very interesting, Hugo.

No doubt, the police will know whether or not a vehicle owner has applied for a Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN).

If it hasn’t then the owner will be committing an offence even when the vehicle is kept on a driveway or in a garage.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on December 20, 2019, 09:25:26 pm
Bri, when you do a car tax checker on a vehicle it will tell you if there is a SORN on the vehicle.     In this case there isn't a SORN and although the MOT has only recently been renewed the road tax is nearly 12 months out of date

I suspect that there is more to it than just out of date  road tax but I can't understand how or why the DVLA has not dealt with this matter in the last 12 months as their records would have shown that the tax was out of date on 1st Jan 2019

We are effectively losing hundreds of millions of pounds annually in unpaid road tax and it can be prevented
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Ian on December 21, 2019, 09:19:20 am
Perhaps this would be worth raising with our local police and crime commissioner?
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on December 21, 2019, 03:57:06 pm
That might be a good idea Ian and I'll have a think on that.   I know that the Police have had a 101 phone call and a follow up letter but the offender is still driving about on a daily basis

The strange thing is that the DVLA  deals with all the outstanding road tax cases and have no power in the MOT cases.     For any cars that are driven without a MOT you have to phone 101 and report it to the Police who" allege" that such cases will be followed up

My own experience with the DVLA  being responsible as a debt collecting agency for unpaid road tax is that the office is not fit for purpose. It is not the fault of the people working there but of the system that is used to collect these unpaid duties.   
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on January 11, 2020, 12:04:03 pm
Northampton hit and run: Driver fined after mum traces CCTV

After waiting a week for police to contact them, her mother, Gail Thompson, took matters into her own hands.

She said: "Within the space of six hours we got CCTV of it happening."


When I read this article today it made me think of a similar incident that happened at the Llandudno General Hospital in recent years.
A woman was walking across a zebra crossing at the hospital when she was hit by a car and sustained serious injuries and was admitted into the hospital with broken bones     The driver a woman in her 60's with grey hair wearing a purple parka style coat and driving a small purple coloured car got out but then drove off.
The Police were quoted in the NWWN  as "asking the driver to hand herself in "
      More than 3 weeks later the lady had not handed herself in and the Police were nowhere near finding the offending driver
The point I'm making is that with all the CCTV available in the area it wouldn't have taken the Police a long time to trace the offender so what exactly were they doing to follow this up?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-51046448 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-51046448)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on January 12, 2020, 11:17:14 am
I've just attached a link about the article referring to the incident at Llandudno Hospital and wonder if the Police did manage to track the hit and run driver down.     If the mother from Northampton took only 6 hours to locate the CCTV then the North Wales Police Force with all their resources available to them could have done it in half that time

https://www.itv.com/news/wales/update/2017-04-06/police-appeal-for-witnesses-after-70-year-old-woman-hit-by-car-outside-llandudno-hospital/ (https://www.itv.com/news/wales/update/2017-04-06/police-appeal-for-witnesses-after-70-year-old-woman-hit-by-car-outside-llandudno-hospital/)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: norman08 on January 12, 2020, 03:57:55 pm
We are talking about NWP here, the cameras outside the hospital would have picked it up, a few blind spots round the back but clear at the front.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Bri Roberts on January 12, 2020, 05:42:17 pm
It is reasonable to expect a security camera monitoring the main hospital entrance.
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on January 12, 2020, 06:28:22 pm
We are talking about NWP here, the cameras outside the hospital would have picked it up, a few blind spots round the back but clear at the front.


In that case Norman, why didn't the North Wales Police not find out who the driver was?     They had the exact time, date and place of the incident, a description of the woman and her car and the chances are that she was a local person visiting a friend or relative in the hospital.
It was not the hardest crime to solve.       &shake&
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on May 29, 2020, 12:12:21 pm
I drove along the prom at Rhos On Sea earlier and by the Beach Cafe in Penrhyn Bay there was an Arrive Alive speed camera van parked in the lay by
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Blongb on July 12, 2020, 01:32:47 pm
I watched a very tatty Ford Gray Mondeo towing an equally tatty Caravan park across the road from mine this morning. The driver unhitched and drove off leaving the Van before I could get his registration. However there was a plate on the Van that came back as a Gray Mondeo with an expired MOT since January 2019. Quick call to 101 and gave them the details. After an hour or so a Gray Mondeo turned up again, Hitch up and tried to pull off. Unfortunately the man had some sort of Mechanical problem because he stopped halfway out of his parking slot and had to call the RAC. A quick check on this Mondeo came back as Untaxed since 17 October 2017 and MOT expired since 3 February 2018 and the registrations didn't match up. Another call to 101 and after a whee while two large Police officers turned up to help sort out his accumulating motoring problems.

As the Police drove off they only got a hundred yards down the road when the Blue Lights came on as another chancer came speeding out of the bottom end of Church Walks; the wrong way. Who said easing the lockdown was going to be easy?  ))*
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: SteveH on July 12, 2020, 02:49:22 pm
Nice to see they got there in time  $good$
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on July 12, 2020, 03:24:20 pm
I'm pleased that your phone call to 101 produced a good result because there are too many motorists on the road that don't abide by the rules and honest motorists have to subsidize those cheats.
My own dealings with the 101 service were not a very good experience
The first time I reported someone for driving with a MOT that had expired was because they were texting at the same time and driving in the middle of the road with a car following it.     The operator said that unless I had a photo of the driver texting there was nothing they could do as I had no evidence.   So I replied by saying that you have the evidence on the DVLA data base so what as you going to do about the expired MOT.
The operator consulted her supervisor and came back and said " unless the MOT is three months or more out of date then we are not interested"       Unbelievable!
The second time I phoned 101  I reported three vehicles that had no tax, one of which has no tax, MOT or insurance and belonged to the same person.     She asked me where the cars are parked and I said in the person's garden and the answer I got was that " the Police have no powers to do anything when the cars are parked in someone's garden"    ( no SORN on any of the vehicles "
What can one do in the circumstances, we know that the DVLA is useless and the Police can't or won't act so the fraud is allowed to continue

Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on September 07, 2020, 12:40:40 pm
There seems to be an increasing number of these incidents occurring all over the UK and perhaps "Harvey's Law" should be introduced as soon as possible to protect the emergency workers from these sick elements of society


https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/seven-police-officers-punched-bitten-18890396 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/seven-police-officers-punched-bitten-18890396)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: SteveH on September 07, 2020, 01:55:47 pm
I agree, there should be a mandatory penalty for any violence towards any emergency worker. 
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on November 11, 2020, 03:37:57 pm
Not so long ago I read this article about doubling the prison sentences for assaults on emergency workers and I thought that it was a good idea and about time too.   

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prison-sentences-assault-emergency-workers-attacks-coronavirus-b438096.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prison-sentences-assault-emergency-workers-attacks-coronavirus-b438096.html)

However when I read an article in today's edition of the NWWN  it beggars belief.   A blind drunk woman bit one Police officer leaving him with a probable scar and kicked the other officer in the groin. She had to be fitted with a spit hood and leg restraints and the woman admitted to having a lock knife in a public place and also possessing three large cannabis buds.
For all these serious offences she was given a 16 month sentence SUSPENDED for two years and given certain conditions to comply with.
How often have we seen lenient sentences like that given only to find out that the person has re offended a short time later.
The Law is an Ass and there must be some deterrent to protect the emergency workers and the public from this type of incident
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on July 04, 2021, 03:42:51 pm
I wonder if this proposed new law also applies to the Travelling Community and whether the Police will seek to enforce this law against the Travellers?


https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/motorhomes-campervans-caravans-seized-owners-20957408 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/motorhomes-campervans-caravans-seized-owners-20957408)
Title: Re: Policing Issues Discussion
Post by: Hugo on July 26, 2021, 11:28:32 pm
I enjoyed watching "Beyond the Line, the North Wales Traffic Cops" on ITV Wales tonight at 8.00 pm.     It was about the North Wales Police and follows their work along the roads of North Wales, including the A55
They work under difficult and dangerous conditions and watching the programme made me admire the work that they do