Three Towns Forum
Members' Lounge => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Fester on September 03, 2014, 11:17:20 pm
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I've been drinking tonight,.... in fact I've been DRINKING tonight, I thought it was important to clarify that.
But, once I arrive home, I am confronted with the News story about US President Obama arriving in Wales.
He is here for the NATO Summit,............ which is very nice.
This is a 2 Day summit, which has basically crippled Cardiff as a City for the last 21 days or so, with a ring of Steel fencing that has annihilated trade, and caused local schools to CLOSE!
But never mind, because these GREAT people are here to discuss and agree matters of the utmost importance... or are they?
You see, looking at Mr Obama's itinerary over the next 2 days, it is almost entirely Ceremonial.
He is visiting a school in Newport, (with Mr Cameron), he is visiting graves, he is having ceremonial dinners, and he is laying wreaths.... the list is quite exhaustive, but not what you call 'productive'
All very laudable..... but please, someone tell me, WHEN will he sit down and thrash out some tangible measures, or actions, by which the major issues the World is facing might be addressed?
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Just a reminder...........
'It'll take years for Nepal to recover from the quake.. and the memory will resound for a lifetime'
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/itll-take-years-nepal-recover-9683516 (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/itll-take-years-nepal-recover-9683516)
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Greek Taverna
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Will this be the next Euro star train at St Pancreas?
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_))* _))* _))* _))*
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I received this e-mail yesterday, Turkey wasn't mentioned, but it is also a Muslim country and a sanctuary for any refugees.
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Turkey has 1.4 million refugees already. You do the maths. &shake&
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I received this e-mail yesterday, Turkey wasn't mentioned, but it is also a Muslim country and a sanctuary for any refugees.
Seems spot on to me! Why don't they stay and fight for their country?
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How many have the Emirates taken?
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Two wrongs don't make a right.
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Turkey has 1.4 million refugees already. You do the maths. &shake&
Does that figure include those migrants who have gone over to Greece in the boats? But anyway it doesn't explain why they didn't go east to the rich Arab states.
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But anyway it doesn't explain why they didn't go east to the rich Arab states.
[/quote]
Because they are next in the firing line Hugo. Small Sunni minority ruling class controlling large influx of Shi'ite to do the work.
Sunnies aligned with Saudi Arabia, Shi'ite aligned with Iran, both up to no end of mischief.
I.M.O. it's only a question of time until it all kicks off, so the Afghans, Iraqies and Syrians come West.
Trouble with that is, they bring all their religious and political baggage with them,
but do on the other hand have the potential to open some fantastic new restaurants.
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This is an excellent short video on the crisis:
https://youtu.be/RvOnXh3NN9w
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This is an excellent short video on the crisis: https://youtu.be/RvOnXh3NN9w
Thank-you Ian, it was well worth the watch, wonderful what a little bit of perspective can do.
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Hmm, a very simplistic view of what is a very complex and wide-ranging political and social upheaval.
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Watched it, seems a bit Jeremy Corbyn to me.. ?{}?
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watched it and thought thank the lord I was not born in Syria,
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Hmm, a very simplistic view of what is a very complex and wide-ranging political and social upheaval.
It did seem simplistic and believable until they mentioned the word at the end "integration" and they have no plans set up for that as far as I am aware.
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Nigel Farage in Euro parliament
by the look on Merkel's face he has hit the nail on the head!!
https://www.youtube.com/embed/R5lXYw1l8l0?rel=0&autoplay=1 (https://www.youtube.com/embed/R5lXYw1l8l0?rel=0&autoplay=1)
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Nigel Farage in Euro parliament
by the look on Merkel's face he has hit the nail on the head!!
https://www.youtube.com/embed/R5lXYw1l8l0?rel=0&autoplay=1 (https://www.youtube.com/embed/R5lXYw1l8l0?rel=0&autoplay=1)
A superb and passionate speech.
Couldn't see a date, I assume it was very recently. but prior to the attacks in Paris?
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The date on the video was the 7th October 2015 and therefore before the attacks in Paris
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Previously, I had always thought of Jeremy Corbyn as well meaning, if a bit odd and slightly deluded.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34832023 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34832023)
Now I have to ask: 'What f****** planet is he on?'
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Previously, I had always thought of Jeremy Corbyn as well meaning, if a bit odd and slightly deluded.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34832023 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34832023)
Now I have to ask: 'What f****** planet is he on?'
I must be getting old, but the more I listen to him, the more sense I think he talks.... (sometimes)
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Previously, I had always thought of Jeremy Corbyn as well meaning, if a bit odd and slightly deluded.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34832023 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34832023)
Now I have to ask: 'What f****** planet is he on?'
I must be getting old, but the more I listen to him, the more sense I think he talks.... (sometimes)
Fester, have you been drinking again..........? _))*
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Jeremy Corbyn: I'm awaiting an explanation for why Jihadi John was killed
LABOUR leader Jeremy Corbyn has suggested he WOULDN'T have ordered the killing of the depraved Islamic State (ISIS) murderer dubbed 'Jihadi John'
http://shr.gs/Y6r1DPH (http://shr.gs/Y6r1DPH)
Would anyone want him as their PM?
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YES
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:o WHO? :o
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:o WHO? :o
Well he certainly seems to attract sensationalist headlines!
I've only scanned the first bit of the article and as far as I could make out from that, what he wants is some sort of UN legally agreed process for any actions. On this, I feel he may have a point. The questions over Iraq linger on..
Personally, I might also question the effectiveness of taking out the bad guys, however nasty they may be. After 9/11 we had Bin Laden and Saddam Hussien sort of identified as the centres of “all things evil”. We got both of them, have even had the rotten Gadaffi in Lybia for good measure and doubtless a few other bad eggs but I think the world is more dangerous now than it was before our “crusades”.
To me, there seems to be no shortage of others ready and able to take up the leadership and/or pursue their own new agendas where opportunities arise. It also seems to me that there is no shortage of new raw recruits and I suspect that anything that can for example be portrayed as “the evil west” or as a “holy war” can only lead to another wave of fools (or worse) joining “the cause”. On top of this I guess there is always the question as to whether a larger power may at some point take serious exception to some action or other.
As for Isis, I do view them as a serious threat who need dealing with and would hope that Corbyn does too. If he doesn't and/or is unwilling to consider serious action, I probably would have issues with him… I'm a wannabe pacifist but at the moment am not fully convinced there aren't times one has to act against those ideals.
All in all then, for me, maybe I should find out more about what Corbyn is about and I don't think that will come from hysterical press headlines.
Things I don't see, however they are are sold , include jingoistic headlines, Land of Hope and Glory style patriotisms, remembrances of WW2 glories and in particular the knee type jerk reactions that may go with them….
If Corbyn is suggesting thought and consideration before some strategic aim, ultimately for a workable peace, I might be with him…
but as one of many disclaimers I could give, I don't have the solution either...
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That's an excellent and well reasoned exposition of the situation S. There are numerous studies concerning what makes people into suicide bombers and extremists and the only two conclusions on which they all agree appear to be that more will always step into the breach, so simply eliminating them will never solve the problem, and terrorism thrives amongst the disaffected.
But JC did make one interesting point: he queried why the UK government isn't going after those countries that fund IS. DC responded by saying IS had simply captured banks and oil wells, but that's missing the point that they were well funded prior to their emergence. Saudi Arabia funded Bin Laden's organisation, and it's widely thought that IS - being Sunni - is still funded by pro-Sunni Arab states. Once again religion is at the root of conflict.
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Many people have suggested in the past that the removal of Border Controls throughout the Schengen area of Europe could only lead to trouble and it seems that they may well have been right. Any undesirable can enter Europe as a refugee and then have free access throughout the region, as has happened with the ringleader of the Paris plot.
Two questions are raised...do we need to reintroduce each country's Border Controls and is it not obvious that allowing unchecked migration into the EU can only result in hundreds more terrorists entering Europe unseen?
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Andrew Neil's rant about IS is well worth watching, he's absolutely right:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Muuka8KBd7Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Muuka8KBd7Y)
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The situation with Syria and IS is confused and somewhat difficult to understand, but it was explained to me like this:
President Assad (who is bad) is a nasty chap who got so nasty his people rebelled and the rebels (who are good) started winning. But, then some of the rebels turned a bit nasty and are now called Islamic State (who are definitely bad) and some continued to support democracy. (Who are still good.)
So the Americans (who are good) started bombing Islamic State (who are bad) and giving arms to the Syrian Rebels (who are good) so they could fight Assad (who is still bad ) which was good.
By the way, there is a breakaway state in the north run by the Kurds who want to fight IS (which is a good thing) but the Turkish authorities think they are bad, so we have to say they are bad whilst secretly thinking they're good and giving them guns to fight IS (which is good) but that is another matter.
Getting back to Syria, President Putin (who is bad, because he invaded Crimea and the Ukraine) has decided to back Assad (who is still bad) by attacking ISIS (who are also bad) which is possibly a good thing.
But Putin (still bad) thinks the Syrian Rebels (who are good) are also bad, and so he bombs them too, much to the annoyance of the Americans who are busy backing and arming the rebels.
Now Iran (who used to be bad, but now they have agreed not to build any nuclear weapons and not to bomb Israel are now good) are going to provide ground troops to support Assad (who is still bad) as are the Russians (bad) who now have ground troops and aircraft in Syria.
So a Coalition of Assad (still bad) Putin and the Iranians (good, but in a bad sort of way) are going to attack IS which is a good thing, but also the Syrian Rebels (who are good) which is bad.
Now the British (obviously good) and the Americans cannot attack Assad for fear of upsetting Putin and Iran and now they have to accept that Assad might not be that bad after all compared to IS.
So Assad is now probably good, being better than IS and since Putin and Iran are also fighting IS that may now make them good. America will find it hard to arm a group of rebels being attacked by the Russians for fear of upsetting Mr Putin and that now nice mad Ayatollah in Iran and so they may be forced to say that the Rebels are now bad, or at the very least abandon them to their fate. This will lead most of them to flee to Turkey and on to Europe or join IS.
To Sunni Muslims, an attack by Shia Muslims ( Assad and Iran ) backed by Russians will be seen as something of a Holy War, and the ranks of IS will now be seen by the Sunnis as the only Jihadi's fighting in the Holy War and hence many Muslims will now see IS as 'good'.....
Sunni Muslims will also see the lack of action by Britain and America in support of their Sunni rebel brothers as something of a betrayal and hence we will be seen as 'bad'.
So now we have America (now bad) and Britain (also now bad) providing limited support to Sunni Rebels (bad) many of whom are looking to IS for support against Assad (now good) who, along with Iran (now good) and Putin (also, now, unbelievably, good) are attempting to retake the country Assad used to run before all this started.
Clear?
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DaveR, agreed, it has always been obvious to me, still shocked at Germany allowing that lot in! &shake&
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Bosun, clear? Yes and no...
I would consider Isis bad and don't see myself changing that view. But good and bad can be subjective and manipulated.
I guess I have to go into myself here...
I knew Clancy songs from childhood and in earlier adult days was known to sing a rebel song or two before largely playing jigs and reels in Irish session (I'm mostly instrumental with the odd non controversial song for this hobby these days).
I think one does learn of things that one feels unjust but I think I've only ever been careless or my the way I think now, unthinking. I don't thing I've ever really moved from a position whereby if I was asked on a poll would I like to see a united Ireland, I'd vote yes. (or maybe I've shitfed a little perhaps these days, I'd abstain).
But I could then look at these lyrics which are an extract from Dominic Behan's The Patriot Game:
They told me how Connolly was shot in his chair,
His wounds from the fighting all bloody and bare.
His fine body twisted, all battered and lame
They soon made me part of the patriot game.
It's nearly two years since I wandered away
With the local battalion of the bold IRA,
For I read of our heroes, and wanted the same
To play out my part in the patriot game.
Now I ask myself an uncomfortable question. I don't believe I ever lived in a situation that would have made me a terrorist. But say as the rebellious youth with no direction I was and say living in NI with relatives dead could I too have become a terrorist? I'd dearly love to answer there are no circumstances that would have happened but I'm not certain I can give the 100% never, ever, at least in youth.
To move to Wales I clearly remember an older (RIP now) family friend from Brynsiencyn about 10 years ago telling me of his schooling aand of the wearing of a placard for speaking in Welsh. Now I was a Saes import to Wales who only speaks English but I was fuming at the thought. Could I if Iwas born in Wales and with a different upbringing have joined say Mebion Glyndwr? I don't know.
I do appoligise that this is a rather personal and uncomfortable rant but I'm trying to address Ians what makes a terrorist/dissafected and Bosun's (acutually humerous but) where is good and bad as best I can.
I guess to try to move forward, I guess a question is how does one dissuade youth from becoming radicalised?
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I thought Neil's 'rant' was entertaining, but sadly not pertinent - or accurate. Squiggle, On the other hand , is posing the really tricky questions rather well. Unfortunately, the big problem (and the cause of the trouble) is laid firmly at the feet of religion. In the UK the faith schools do nothing but perpetuate the problems. Notwithstanding Boson's excellent (and largely unintelligible) explanations of the conflict we have to accept that while religions of any sort exist there will continue to be those who use religion as the excuse to main and murder.
So do we start by banning religion?
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Twenty four years ago, on 8 August 1991, several ships carrying approximately 15,000 Albanian migrants succeeded in entering the port of Bari, Italy. The Italian government’s response was harsh. Most of the Albanians were detained in a sports stadium without adequate food, water, or access to bathrooms. Italian authorities dropped supplies to the detained migrants by helicopter. Within several weeks most of the migrants were deported to Albania. Their harsh treatment was criticised by human rights organisations and the Pope, but was justified by the Italian government as necessary to deter further irregular migration from Albania.
Italy did accept some of the migrants, some escaped but they returned the rest and said that the Albanians were economic migrants and were from outside the EU
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I thought Neil's 'rant' was entertaining, but sadly not pertinent - or accurate. Squiggle, On the other hand , is posing the really tricky questions rather well. Unfortunately, the big problem (and the cause of the trouble) is laid firmly at the feet of religion. In the UK the faith schools do nothing but perpetuate the problems. Notwithstanding Boson's excellent (and largely unintelligible) explanations of the conflict we have to accept that while religions of any sort exist there will continue to be those who use religion as the excuse to main and murder.
So do we start by banning religion?
That doesn't work too well in the communist regimes does it?
Are Neil and Bosun one in the same or have I missed something?
Either way I don't think Squiggle's 'rant' was about religion at all. Mebion Glyndwr were not religious activists as far as I know and many leading figures in Irish republicanism such as Theobald Wolfe Tone were Protestant.
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That doesn't work too well in the communist regimes does it?
Well, China allows religious observance but the simple fact is that religion is the main cause of conflict throughout the world. Nationalism (defined largely by language) comes second.
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Ian, I am actually Christian although I was an atheist for many years. It's impossible for me to tackle other faiths such as Islam as I've not developed any understanding of them. I'll try to give my own take from my own perspective of trying to be a Christian.
I suppose a starting point would be to have a rapid look through our history. It seems to me pointless denying there haven't been the Crusades, Inquisitions and other persecutions. That differences in faith, notably between protestant and RC, has been used as dividing tool is, I think, undeniable.
Still, my own belief is that it is the misuse of religion that causes the problems and that it can often only be a secondary factor. In brief, I might be tempted to suggest that England's desire to conquer and rule was the initial problem.
To step briefly into a non religious side, I think communist USSR was pretty anti religious (it being the opium of the masses?) yet before the collapse seem to have created a state that was at least as corrupted as the one under the previous regime that was disposed of in rather bloody fashion.
Anyway, to come back to my own beliefs. I'd say a central tenet is to love thy neighbour as thyself. I can't help but feel the world would be better place if we even got close to managing that but we fail. I'm going to quote the bible at you now. It was directed at the Scribes and Pharisses but...
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. "So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.…"
I think we (Christains) often tend to be better at what is described there...
Anway, just a jumbled ramble of thoughts for you. I'm actually going through a difficult time of reassessing my own beliefs at the moment and it may be a couple of years before I come up with anything that seems to work in my own mind but one thing I'm trying to resolve is this:
How come there are so many denominations and how does the same book seemingly produce a largely left leaning person like myself and a right wing pro gun American?
I'll keep up my personal belief that there is something above me and I don't see that as feeble mindedness but there is a fair bit I'm questionig right now.
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This programme was truly brilliant _ Hardeep's Sunday Lunch:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06pschf (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06pschf)
The story of a remarkable religious coming together in Bradford, where a Muslim sits on Bradford's last remaining synagogue's council, it should be a lesson to us all.
This is the BBC's blurb on this truly inspiring programme:
While the news is dominated by stories of conflict between Muslims and Jews, Hardeep travels to Bradford to tell the story of a heart-warming and inspiring friendship across the religious divide. The city's Muslim community has not only raised money to save Bradford's last remaining synagogue from closure, but as the ties have grown and trust and friendship blossomed, a Muslim is now on the synagogue's ruling council and another Muslim has been invited to preach there. Hardeep meets Rudi Leavor who has been the synagogue chairman for the past 40 years and finds out how, in spite of global politics, the relationship between Jews and Muslims in this part of Bradford is getting stronger. Rudi introduces Hardeep to two of his biggest Muslim supporters; Jani Rashid who recently became a member of the synagogue's ruling council and Zulfi Karim, a local businessman who raised money for repairs and is now not only Rudi's personal friend, but who has also preached in the synagogue. Now the urgent repairs have been completed, the work to secure a future for the synagogue in the city is just the beginning. Zulfi Karim found it a tough decision to begin working with his Jewish neighbours and thought deeply before offering his assistance - he wondered if he would be betraying his religion but realised that he had a duty to his community, regardless of race or creed. Jani took his position on the Synagogue Council at the start of this year. He says he looks at people of different faiths around the world, struggling to live side by side and says, "Bradford can buck that trend by its acts of friendship".
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I thought Neil's 'rant' was entertaining, but sadly not pertinent - or accurate. Squiggle, On the other hand , is posing the really tricky questions rather well. Unfortunately, the big problem (and the cause of the trouble) is laid firmly at the feet of religion. In the UK the faith schools do nothing but perpetuate the problems. Notwithstanding Boson's excellent (and largely unintelligible) explanations of the conflict we have to accept that while religions of any sort exist there will continue to be those who use religion as the excuse to main and murder.
So do we start by banning religion?
That doesn't work too well in the communist regimes does it?
Are Neil and Bosun one in the same or have I missed something?
Either way I don't think Squiggle's 'rant' was about religion at all. Mebion Glyndwr were not religious activists as far as I know and many leading figures in Irish republicanism such as Theobald Wolfe Tone were Protestant.
Ian is talking about Andrew Neil, broadcaster and hairstylist guru, late editor of the Sunday Times who has a remarkable self belief and a reliance on fake tan and hair colouring.
On the other hand, I, Bosun, have continual doubts about life and it's enormity, and I am going grey.
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Turkey shoots down Russian warplane on Syria border
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34907983 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34907983)
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Worth hearing from a guy who actually speaks the truth.
This is a short 5 minute video of Nigel Farange talking about Merkle’s
recent agreement with Turkey.
Worth a listen, he is right on.
Rewarding Turkish blackmail is a dangerous game - UKIP Leader Nigel Farage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRhMkXeKJTEA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRhMkXeKJTEA)
longer speech on the Paris
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Jeremy Corbyn: I'm awaiting an explanation for why Jihadi John was killed
LABOUR leader Jeremy Corbyn has suggested he WOULDN'T have ordered the killing of the depraved Islamic State (ISIS) murderer dubbed 'Jihadi John'
http://shr.gs/Y6r1DPH (http://shr.gs/Y6r1DPH)
Would anyone want him as their PM?
Yes Hugo - around 13 million people want him as PM it seems.
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Jeremy Corbyn: I'm awaiting an explanation for why Jihadi John was killed
LABOUR leader Jeremy Corbyn has suggested he WOULDN'T have ordered the killing of the depraved Islamic State (ISIS) murderer dubbed 'Jihadi John'
http://shr.gs/Y6r1DPH (http://shr.gs/Y6r1DPH)
Would anyone want him as their PM?
Yes Hugo - around 13 million people want him as PM it seems.
Don't exaggerate. It was 12,824,737.
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Jeremy Corbyn: I'm awaiting an explanation for why Jihadi John was killed
LABOUR leader Jeremy Corbyn has suggested he WOULDN'T have ordered the killing of the depraved Islamic State (ISIS) murderer dubbed 'Jihadi John'
http://shr.gs/Y6r1DPH (http://shr.gs/Y6r1DPH)
Would anyone want him as their PM?
Yes Hugo - around 13 million people want him as PM it seems.
Don't exaggerate. It was 12,824,737.
There's still 4 to go isn't there - could push him closer to the magic 13
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Yes Hugo - around 13 million people want him as PM it seems.
BTR, It still seems that 18 million people didn't want him as PM
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Yes Hugo - around 13 million people want him as PM it seems.
BTR, It still seems that 18 million people didn't want him as PM
Your question was 'Would anyone want him as their PM'
Seems like plenty would $good$
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I suspect that many voted Labour in spite of Corbyn, not because they wanted him! But to be fair to JC he did put the effort in !
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A lot of people also voted for Donald Trump but it doesn't mean that he would make a good President and likewise for Corbyn but the electorate are entitled to vote for who they want to. That's democracy for you and at least we can express our opinion through the Ballot box.
Jeremy Corbyn as expected was on the front page of the Daily Mirror giving the thumbs up after doing better than anyone expected and good luck to him for enjoying the moment. Inside the Daily Mirror though was a photo of two International footballl teams and it was sickening to see and made me appreciate living in a democratic country where we have the freedom to vote and have free speech.
The occasion was an international football match between Australia and Saudi Arabia and the photo was taken before the game and during the minutes silence remembering the London Bridge terror victims. Most of the Saudi players strolled off or stood in their positions and their coaches and subs in the dugouts were said to have refused to stand as most of the crowd observed the silence, many Saudi supporters shouted throughout the minutes silence.
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I've not noticed the England football team have too many minutes silences for all the people killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc. Is that sickening as well?
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Why would they ?
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Why would Saudi Arabia have a minutes silence for people killed in Manchester?
Where was the England team's minutes silence for this?
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/kabul-isis-explosion-attack-no-one-minutes-scilence-a7767341.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/kabul-isis-explosion-attack-no-one-minutes-scilence-a7767341.html)
"Yesterday a similar truck bomb ripped through the heart of Kabul's diplomatic zone in a "earthquake-like" blast described by officials as "one of the biggest" to have hit the city. At least 90 people were killed and more than 400 injured."
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We have a depressingly tribal response to disasters not in the UK.
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We have a depressingly tribal response to disasters not in the UK.
More worryingly I think it's just non white countries that don't any attention.
We are sympathetic when it's Australia, U.S.A, or pretty much anywhere else in Europe.
Anything happens in Africa or the Middle East it isn't mentioned. Why is that?
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Probably because we don't give a monkey's about it.
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I wonder what the response would be if it was Saudi V Yemen or even Saudi V Iran
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Probably because we don't give a monkey's about it.
At least you're honest, why then would anyone expect that Saudi Arabia should care less about 17 dead people in England?
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I always try to be honest, I did not expect them to care really, they certainly don't care about us, they just want their money for the oil and we want their oil.
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I suspect that if the Australian team were asked to take part in a ceremony, honoring Saudi victims, they would have agreed and acted respectfully.
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We have a depressingly tribal response to disasters not in the UK.
More worryingly I think it's just non white countries that don't any attention.
We are sympathetic when it's Australia, U.S.A, or pretty much anywhere else in Europe.
Anything happens in Africa or the Middle East it isn't mentioned. Why is that?
That's a truly ridiculous & deluded thing to say. How many hundreds of millions have been donated by the British people to famine relief/natural disasters etc in Africa, for starters? &shake&
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We have a depressingly tribal response to disasters not in the UK.
More worryingly I think it's just non white countries that don't any attention.
We are sympathetic when it's Australia, U.S.A, or pretty much anywhere else in Europe.
Anything happens in Africa or the Middle East it isn't mentioned. Why is that?
That's a truly ridiculous & deluded thing to say. How many hundreds of millions have been donated by the British people to famine relief/natural disasters etc in Africa, for starters? &shake&
That's not really the point B2R was making, though. The media see and report deaths in different ways: I think it's largely regulated by distance, hence we view fatal flooding in China quite differently from fatal flooding in the Lake District. But there's clear evidence that we 'care' more about deaths in the UK, followed by deaths in close European countries, then deaths in the USA, New Zealand and Australia, then deaths in the Asian and Pacific countries and finally deaths in Africa. In other words, how much footage and space is given over to deaths in the media is determined by proximity, then by race.
It's so obvious comics use jokes which feature lines about terrible disasters, but fortunately 'no British were there'.
Now you're right about the money donated by people for famine relief, but - again - the available evidence suggests the most money comes from the fewest people, and they seem largely to comprise white, middle-aged women and churchgoers.
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'Suffer the death of thy neighbour' Ian?
Not sure we have the stomach for that.
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Ah; ever the Trekky, eh, F?
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Ah; ever the Trekky, eh, F?
Indeed, but many lines from our favourite SciFi do bear being given a run out in real life, yes?
Powerful stuff was woven into those scripts.
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They did have some outstanding writers on that show.
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That's not really the point B2R was making, though. The media see and report deaths in different ways: I think it's largely regulated by distance, hence we view fatal flooding in China quite differently from fatal flooding in the Lake District. But there's clear evidence that we 'care' more about deaths in the UK, followed by deaths in close European countries, then deaths in the USA, New Zealand and Australia, then deaths in the Asian and Pacific countries and finally deaths in Africa. In other words, how much footage and space is given over to deaths in the media is determined by proximity, then by race.
So...why is the UK singled out for particular criticism by B2R, when we are no different to any other country in the world, in that respect?
Do you imagine people in China are concerned about fatalities caused by flooding in the Lake District, for example? :laugh: :laugh:
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That's not really the point B2R was making, though. The media see and report deaths in different ways: I think it's largely regulated by distance, hence we view fatal flooding in China quite differently from fatal flooding in the Lake District. But there's clear evidence that we 'care' more about deaths in the UK, followed by deaths in close European countries, then deaths in the USA, New Zealand and Australia, then deaths in the Asian and Pacific countries and finally deaths in Africa. In other words, how much footage and space is given over to deaths in the media is determined by proximity, then by race.
So...why is the UK singled out for particular criticism by B2R, when we are no different to any other country in the world, in that respect?
Do you imagine people in China are concerned about fatalities caused by flooding in the Lake District, for example? :laugh: :laugh:
Going round in circles here! That was my point exactly Dave when I initially said why would Saudi Arabia give a monkeys about 17 dead people in Manchester when the middle east is being obliterated almost daily!
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We have a depressingly tribal response to disasters not in the UK.
More worryingly I think it's just non white countries that don't any attention.
We are sympathetic when it's Australia, U.S.A, or pretty much anywhere else in Europe.
Anything happens in Africa or the Middle East it isn't mentioned. Why is that?
That's a truly ridiculous & deluded thing to say. How many hundreds of millions have been donated by the British people to famine relief/natural disasters etc in Africa, for starters? &shake&
That's not really the point B2R was making, though. The media see and report deaths in different ways: I think it's largely regulated by distance, hence we view fatal flooding in China quite differently from fatal flooding in the Lake District. But there's clear evidence that we 'care' more about deaths in the UK, followed by deaths in close European countries, then deaths in the USA, New Zealand and Australia, then deaths in the Asian and Pacific countries and finally deaths in Africa. In other words, how much footage and space is given over to deaths in the media is determined by proximity, then by race.
It's so obvious comics use jokes which feature lines about terrible disasters, but fortunately 'no British were there'.
Now you're right about the money donated by people for famine relief, but - again - the available evidence suggests the most money comes from the fewest people, and they seem largely to comprise white, middle-aged women and churchgoers.
Missing children is another example I can use - we all know about Madeline McCann it's been reported to the moon and back and that's because she's a white blonde girl.
If she was non white nobody here would be familiar with her.
I'm not saying it's anything the British public actively choose to do but newspapers obviously know what people care about and what people care about sells papers.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/theres-an-epidemic-of-missing-children-of-colour-who-arent-photogenic-enough-to-find-a6989666.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/theres-an-epidemic-of-missing-children-of-colour-who-arent-photogenic-enough-to-find-a6989666.html)
"Currently in the UK, Fatima Olodo is missing. So are Lan Pham, Jasvinder Kaur, Reneisha Brown, Ramla Malo, Gina Lander, Aaya Al-Saedi Aqueel Abdulwahi, Tiana Medaini, Fatima Mohamed-Ali, Safia Abdi, and Payera Begum. Elizabeth Chau remains missing since 1999, in a case that was linked to serial rapist, Andrzej Kunowski and has since been re-opened by the police"
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Mentioning McCann reminds me of another factor: she was from professional, white, middle-class parents. There are a number of factors about that case which support your argument, B2R, the most egregious of which was that the girl was left alone with two other very young children by their parents. Had that been a couple from Rhyl, there would - without a shadow of a doubt - have been a case conference launched by Social Services and the Police.
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Absolutely the press built the family up with such reverence initially that nobody would dare criticise the parents.
Lately I've noticed something of a backlash and more negative stories appearing. The old 'build them up to knock them down' routine that was also done with Princess Diana.
In fact Diana and McCann between them must surely hold some kind of record for most press coverage.
Even today the DFM ran another Princess Di story.
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You are correct in what you say BTR but why on earth are you reading the DFM? I thought that Ian was the only reader of that rag
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I just read it online. I enjoy the comments section the most
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You are correct in what you say BTR but why on earth are you reading the DFM? I thought that Ian was the only reader of that rag
Are you trying to be insulting? _))* _))* _))*
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It does not seem like 16 years since this tragedy.
9/11 anniversary
Today is the 16th anniversary of the 9/11 terror attacks.
2,997 people were killed and more than 6,000 were injured after hijacked passenger planes were flown into the Pentagon and the Twin Towers of New York’s World Trade Centre.
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After having devastating fires, California now has flooding and snow storms, the weather is really extreme all over the world
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/46485267/flooding-and-snow-as-storm-hits-california (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/46485267/flooding-and-snow-as-storm-hits-california)
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It seems as if we don't take these warnings seriously enough, we still build in potentially dangerous places.