Three Towns Forum
The Local => Local News & Discussion => Topic started by: DaveR on July 21, 2013, 08:31:53 pm
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Over the last few years, I've noticed that Llandudno's resident gull population has become a real problem, and its one that is getting worse every year.
Their numbers are increasing rapidly, the noise they make at all hours of the day is horrendous (I've heard so many complaints from people, including visitors, this year) and their aggression/boldness towards humans is getting beyond a joke - how long will it be before someone is badly injured as a result of a seagull attack? It's practically impossible to walk down the Pier or along Mostyn St with an ice cream or sandwich without getting attacked by a gull. The pavements are currently covered with splattered gull poo - it looks terrible.
So, what is the solution? A cull, pricking the eggs, replacing the eggs with replicas that never hatch, compulsory 'gull proofing' of all roofs to prevent them nesting?
Dont get me wrong, I like having some gulls in Llandudno,they're an integral part of a seaside town. But their numbers are now out of control and something does need to be done.
PS, please, let's have no nonsense about 'they were here first'. Llandudno was sand dunes before it was built, and gulls nest only on high places like cliffs.
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i agree with you dave ,i am always telling visitors to be carefull ,yes they were here before us but not all over the town ,on the cliffs [the orme ],as you say someone will be attacked badly soon
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I quite like the sound they make but it's true there's been a shift in the population of gulls. Whereas once they used to concentrate mainly around the Orme, now Asda is a favourite rendezvous and they are quite aggressive. Unfortunately, some visitors still insist on feeding them, but I suspect the worst time for attacks is in spring and early summer, when the young ones are becoming fledglings.
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Unfortunately, some visitors still insist on feeding them,
Surely, any visitor caught doing this can now be fined £75 because it is no different to dropping litter?
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its not only visitors ,locals throw bread out for them ,its a pain when they dance on your roof most of the night, the seagulls i mean
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I completely agree with all that has been said.
This is becoming a real problem, I have seen many 'attacks' ranging from the amusing to the downright vicious in the last year or so. I have seen children injured, and blood shed from adults, (usually, but not always female)
Mrs Fester and I were talking about this subject just yesterday, when it affected ME!
There is a baby seagull hanging around our garden, it cannot yet fly so has been vulnerable to foxes or cats for the last few days.
Yesterday, I could not see it, so I assumed that nature had taken its course.
BUT NO!
I attempted to walk up my garden steps, to be instantly attacked from the air by FOUR adult seagulls. I had no idea why until I saw that the baby one was on my decking.
It was about 20 feet away, I was no threat.... but they were taking no chances, and I still do not understand why four birds went for me, rather than just the parents?
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maybe they thought you were GULLable and would be a threat to the young one but why 4 of them it must be because of your build.
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Gulls use a technique called Mobbing, whereby all adult birds in the area respond to a baby gull under threat.
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Got there before me! With regard to the noise, I should say I don't mind their squawking, but the noise of their happy-dancing can be rather intrusive, I agree:-)) Magpies and Crows make the worst noise overall, however.
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For me the worse noise of all is a barking dog when you are trying to sleep!
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For me the worse noise of all is a barking dog when you are trying to sleep!
Move to Llandudno and you'll soon change your mind about that. :P
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My OH and I have been 'mobbed' quite a few times whilst walking the dog around 10pm-- no babies actually in sight, but obviously we are posing some threat and they are dealing with it.
As for the noise, this year there has hardly been an hour of silence, day or night. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't bother me, but visitors seem to be getting less and less sleep, the constant screaming, mewling and squawking.
Got one on our chimney this morning !
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The busiest area for seagull spotters is on the promenade at the top of St Georges Place where visitors congregate to sit and eat their fish and chips bought from St Georges Plaice next door to Café Culture.
Mrs R has now given up for 2013 to buying her favourite Kelly’s Ice Cream from the kiosk on the pier for obvious reasons.
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For me the worse noise of all is a barking dog when you are trying to sleep!
Move to Llandudno and you'll soon change your mind about that. :P
Move to sunny Rhos on Sea, a better class of bird here! $good$
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Don't get me wrong, it doesn't bother me, but visitors seem to be getting less and less sleep, the constant screaming, mewling and squawking.
And what about the seagulls?
WWW WWW WWW
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;D _))* ;D _))*
Alot of snoring this hot weather-- or perhaps the gulls have learned to do that as well !
$donald$
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As I was walking down Conwy Road into town this morning, I looked across to ASDA and the roof was covered with seagulls in various stages of development, (this year's model, last years' vintage etc), but when I looked across to the roofs of the buildings on Parc Llandudno, (Debenhams, BHS etc) there is hardly a bird to be seen. The roof on ASDA is a gently sloping area but the stores on Parc Llandudno have fairly steeply-pitched roofs with not many suitable areas to build nests. I think there might be a lesson to be learnt there for future developments in the town. Also the area around Bog Island was a favourite place this morning for chip and baguette-eating trippers who were feeding them. That is the time when you DO need to see the "Litter Police" but I assume they were still on the West Shore waiting to ambush unsuspecting dog owners to fine them for letting their pets run free there.
I can remember when I worked in the old ASDA store (which had a flat roof) we used to go up there and prick the eggs in the nests there, but you always had to have someone there with you with a big golf-type umbrella to protect you from the attacking gulls, which were very threatening and vicious.
There used to be an old military type gentleman who would come to the store, buy a couple of loaves, and then go out onto the car park and scatter them for the gulls which of course immediately descended en mass in a "feeding frenzy". When we used to ask him to stop he used to bellow "Do you know what it's like to be starving? I do, I was in a POW camp in the far east during the war". There is no answer to that but we used to try and reason with him and tell him that they were not in fact starving but greedy, to no avail, and eventually his wife would emerge from the store with her shopping, thank us for looking after him (again!) and take him off to their car. I would have liked to have seen the "Litter Police" dealing with him, there would have been only one winner!
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About 20 years ago in a city 80 miles away from here, the underground delivery area and car park of the large shopping mall was infested with pigeons.
Over the weekend a team of pest controllers moved in with .22 rifles and shot the lot, possibly 200 of the blighters.
Previous to the cull the area was not safe to enter because of the health hazard caused by droppings etc.
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That is the time when you DO need to see the "Litter Police" but I assume they were still on the West Shore waiting to ambush unsuspecting dog owners to fine them for letting their pets run free there.
Problem is the gulls would have devoured the evidence before the litter police got there! :D
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As far as I know, Seagulls are a protected species, and cannot be harmed ... (although they have no qualms about harming us humans)
However, I am aware that in Blackpool, there has been an active cull, by employing local marksmen to shoot a great many of them.
Does anyone know more about how the law works, or how it could be circumvented to allow a much needed cull in N Wales?
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Couple of hawks might have some effect...
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Could work, but where would they land? ;D
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_))* _))* _))*
Very good!
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This is a good source of information about measures to deal with gulls:
http://www.highland.gov.uk/yourenvironment/animalsandpestcontrol/seagullcontrol.htm (http://www.highland.gov.uk/yourenvironment/animalsandpestcontrol/seagullcontrol.htm)
It would seem that the onus is on property owners to 'gull proof' their properties to prevent them nesting.
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Don't tell me you've bought a Hawk ME to go with your car collection.
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No, just 4 pigeons, one dove and a canary! :laugh:
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And a partridge in a pear treeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
$good$
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I was waiting for that one! $good$
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Had a chat with one of the men sorting out the trollies outside Asda this morning. People passing to go in were asking what the evil smell was--and believe me it was evil. They are waiting for contractors to jet wash the roof to remove the seagull muck as it smells so bad with the heat.
Take your face masks folks !
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If my memory serves me right, years ago some locals used to go on to roof nesting areas and prick the eggs, thus ensuring that they would not hatch, the Gulls would try to incubate them, but would eventually give up and go and nest somewhere else 'simples' ;D
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Strikes me, after this morning's stomach turning smell, it is time someone did that again. :puke2:
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Bring back the Coastal Hawks - Conwy stopped having them due to the cuts -so we have to suffer the smells!
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Bring back the Coastal Hawks - Conwy stopped having them due to the cuts -so we have to suffer the smells!
They were ineffective, in my view. They only caused a momentary disturbance amongst the gulls, didn't stop them nesting or control their numbers, which is the main problem.
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The seagulls are a big problem a few of us at the station have had dealings with them, u don't realise how big the things are until they start swooping down at you, they should be served with asbo,s and if they don't behave shoot them.
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The seagulls are a big problem a few of us at the station have had dealings with them, u don't realise how big the things are until they start swooping down at you, they should be served with asbo,s and if they don't behave shoot them.
BigMurph, you speak my kind of language!
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I visited Asda yesterday and confirm the smell was overpowering - my father said it smelt like fish boxes and I thought it smelt like wee wee! We came to the conclusion it must have been the compost bags fermenting in the sun - how wrong were we!
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I visited Asda yesterday and confirm the smell was overpowering - my father said it smelt like fish boxes and I thought it smelt like wee wee! We came to the conclusion it must have been the compost bags fermenting in the sun - how wrong were we!
I thought at first that it was fish-- which isn't one of my favorite smells-- but I seem to remember being told about the gull problem there last year. As the weather has been so hot it must have been intensifying it. I feel sorry for the poor chaps who deal with the trollies and the gardening things.
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The gulls have had a very successful breeding season with most pairs hatching two eggs. The population has almost doubled in a short period of time!
Do they make good pies? $dins$
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The question is...how far will the gull population increase before CCBC decide to do something about it? In my mind, that level of population has already been reached and action needs to be taken.
The seagull problem was last discussed by the Council back in 2000, when it was agreed that they were becoming a problem. I don't think that anyone would doubt that their numbers have increased significantly since then. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/667453.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/667453.stm)
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Interesting letter in the NWWN from a Mr. Horan of Macclesfield saying, amongst other things, that the seagulls kept him and his wife awake during their stay in Llandudno and wondering why CCBC don't do something about it.
Personally, if I was woken several times during the night by seagulls when staying in a hotel, I doubt I would go back and that's probably a common attitude. Yet, so many hotel and guest house owners in Llandudno appear to have done nothing to gull proof their premises. &shake&
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The gulls which are audible at night usually aren't roosting anywhere, but flying around-- even in the dark! The novice flyers swoop around in panic screaming whilst the parents fly around after them making sympathetic ( to them) noises.
To my mind they are part of the general seaside atmosphere, but I do feel that the numbers are getting above a level of safety, especially on the prom.
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nemesis its not only by the front its also very bad up the hospital way ,as i said a while ago they were on the cliffs of the orme then they came into the town for the food its so bad now ccbc have to do something ,we will have the stink all over like it is at the asda
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Up where I live, the gulls are very noisy at night and its when they standing/sitting on the rooftops, particularly around nests, they do that long warbling noise almost continually, which I understand is some sort of territorial marking sound. If property owners 'gull proofed' the chimney pots and flat areas of their roofs with spikes and netting, then the problem would be much reduced.
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Problem is not just in Llandudno. I live in the Junction and there are three houses backing onto us that have each had a seagull nest and three chicks. The make a racket every eveing, much of the day, then I get woken at daybreak every morning by the squawking. I've had to cover my pond with mesh to stop them going in there and have seen them actually take fish from the pond (before I put extra netting in place).
If we had rats I could quite legally poison them. What can I do about these flying pests? There are more than enough of them, they don't all need protecting. And yes, I am a lover of wildlife.
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Agreed DVT and DaveR, Something simply must be done.
Customers are telling me that they love the town, but simply cannot get any sleep due to the incessant gull racket, and it spoiling their holiday.
Add that the increasing number of aggressive attacks, and it is clear that we are past the point for action.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/10232464/Pensioner-held-hostage-by-seagulls.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/10232464/Pensioner-held-hostage-by-seagulls.html)
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I blame Hitchcock for putting the idea into there heads
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I don't even live near the beach and I get a barrage of noise from 3am until 6am every single morning. :o
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Neighbour playing Justin Bieber cd's? WWW
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Neighbour playing Justin Bieber cd's? WWW
:laugh:
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Neighbour playing Justin Bieber cd's? WWW
No, B2R actually lives in a land-fill site. :laugh: :laugh:
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_))* lots of Justin's CDs in there then! :laugh:
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_))* lots of Justin's CDs in there then! :laugh:
_))* $good$
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Given that CCBC are apparently unwilling to do anything, they shouldn't be surprised when people start taking their own direct action surely? If a dangerous dog was roaming the neighbourhood biting people it would soon be dealt with.
Llandudno couple terrorised by seagulls consider selling their home
By Judith Phillips
22 Aug 2013 11:49
A COUPLE say they are being terrorised in their own home by seagulls and the husband had his head cut open when he was dive bombed by one in the garden.
The pensioners, who have asked not to be named, say they’re even thinking of putting their bungalow in Llandudno up for sale because the problem is so bad.
And they blame neighbours who feed the gulls for exacerbating the problems they’re experiencing.
Following a story highlighting the increasing problem with gull attacks in last week’s Weekly News the couple got in touch to tell their story, and to plead for action to be taken to stop people feeding the sea birds.
The wife explained they have lived in their home for more than 30 years but feel they must now move as going into the garden when gulls were nesting on nearby roofs was too dangerous.
“We’re sick to death of having to live with this problem which has become so bad that we are frightened to go into our lovely garden and can’t enjoy it.
“My husband was attacked when a young seagull learning to fly landed in the garden and this big seagull swooped down cutting his head. The cut was five or six inches long and dripping with blood. It wasn’t deep enough for stitches but it was very painful,” she complained.
Even putting washing out in the garden is now an ordeal.
“My husband has to hold an umbrella over our heads so that I can peg it on the line without worrying about being attacked. When we first moved here the seagulls nested in the quarry at Nant-y-Gamar and on the cliffs of the Little and Great Ormes but because people now feed them they’re nesting more and more on houses and that’s what’s causing the problem,” she claimed.
In last week’s paper a Conwy County Council officer explained it was impossible to cull herring gulls because their numbers nationally are declining, and they’re a protected species.
He suggested householders employ private pest control officers to remove nest from roofs before the eggs hatch.
But the woman said: “That wouldn’t work in our case because they are nesting on our neighbours’ roofs and they won’t get them removed.”
And added: “To say they are protected is wrong because surely people are more important. Who is protecting us?
“The council should also put bigger and more prominent signs on the promenade asking people not to feed the seagulls because sitting on a bench on the promenade can also be dangerous.”
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/llandudno-couple-terrorised-seagulls-consider-5766773 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/llandudno-couple-terrorised-seagulls-consider-5766773)
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As a non resident, when I am staying in llandudno, I love to be woken up by the seagulls, even if it is 3.30 in the morning in summer, it reminds me of where I am. - no sound of seagulls -then it doesnt seem a true costal resort.
Seagulls normall only attack if they think their eggs/chicks are at risk - as would any parent.
They were here before the residents - this is the last thing you want to hear - - - - - Us visitors dont have to put up with them every day of the year.
I also love to sit on the prom & watch people eating takeaways & the seagulls hassling them & pinching their food WWW
I like the seagulls - live & let live - they are only a nuisance if they are encouraged.
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Seagulls normally only attack if they think their eggs/chicks are at risk - as would any parent.
That has certainly not been our experience twice on the pier this summer as we found out they are also partial to Kelly’s ice cream and are prepared to attack from the rear to get what they want.
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[quote}they are only a nuisance if they are encouraged.[/quote]
They have been encouraged for a long time - if people didnt feed them, they would not be so tame, & would not be so opportunist.
It needs the council to put up signs & to enforce a no feeding policy, the seagulls may not read these, but eventually they will come to understand them. ;D
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Seagulls normally only attack if they think their eggs/chicks are at risk - as would any parent.
That has certainly not been our experience twice on the pier this summer as we found out they are also partial to Kelly’s ice cream and are prepared to attack from the rear to get what they want.
Bri is correct, and I would go further, I have seen several nasty injuries caused by Seagull attacks to steal food in the last couple of years.
Rob, I think that your natural love of birds is clouding your judgement. I do hope you would not find it amusing to see a small child in tears and bleeding as a result of losing his ice cream?
We are banned from causing harm to seagulls, but they are at liberty to steal from us and injure us?
I am a bird lover, but I would support a cull in the seagull numbers locally.
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Well said Fester.
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The problem is that the seagull numbers have increased so dramatically in recent years that the balanced has been tipped over into them becoming a pest, rather than a natural part of seaside life. As their numbers have grown, so has the competition for food, hence the increase in aggression. 'no feeding' signs were installed on the Prom several years ago to little effect; indeed, the reduction in food supply will probably result in them becoming even more aggressive towards people carrying ice creams, chips, pasties etc.
As any Llandudno resident knows, gulls will attack under several circumstances. I'll predict right now that someone will end up badly injured at some point, unless CCBC comes up with a plan to reduce their numbers in the town.
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Was there once a person in the past who's job was to puncture seagull eggs in the nest?
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If all the waist food was put in one place on the Prom "Bingo" no more seagull problem. Live in peace with God's creatures instead of talking about ways to kill them. Do you advocate the stopping of the feeding of the Red Kites in Mid Wales or is that OK because that's a long way away from here. Think about it
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Not a bad idea, BlongB. I take it you'd be happy to volunteer your own front garden as the repository for all the waste food? That way, you can see all of god's creatures up close and personal as they crap all over you... :laugh:
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Not a bad idea, BlongB. I take it you'd be happy to volunteer your own front garden as the repository for all the waste food? That way, you can see all of god's creatures up close and personal as they crap all over you... :laugh:
......whilst you are counting the millions of cars emanating from the Great Orme, which with all their fumes could gas the little beggars! :D
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Hmmm... Seems there are some strong feelings about the Seagulls...
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Live in peace with God's creatures
That's an interesting perspective. I'm just wondering where you can draw the line. Blowflies? Wasps? Maggots? Tse-tse flies? Mosquitoes? Salmonella? Personally, I find the soaring seagull to be a delightful creature, and I love the calls it makes. I'd happily welcome Sea Eagles down here, or Grey Owls but I suspect nature has a precarious balance to strike. Because the Seagull is - at present - the apex aerial predator, its numbers are increasing. This morning, I witnessed a territorial dispute between several gulls, a side effect of which was that the birds were flying very fast and low through a lot of people - some of whom became quite concerned. But this wasn't Llandudno; it was Llanrwst, where a lot of Seagulls now reside. I think something has to be done about the numbers.
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I was visiting a friend in Denbigh recently and the seagulls have recently started nesting on roofs there, the residents are already growing very tired of the noise and mess.
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My daughter keeps chickens , she lives in Conwy where the gulls are nesting all over the roof tops. She recently lost one of the Cockerels in a squirmish with a gull. The cockerel (a white silky) was bravely protecting his hens but he lost the fight sadly a much loved pet (buried not cooked) in my garden) RIP Gandalf ! Now im please to say my daughter has aquired a little brown hen, so tame she even lets me carry her around under my arm when keeping her out of the kitchen. This little hen has the bravest disposition ever and i have watched her chase all the seagulls off. Shes great as my little grandson can play out again as it was getting a bit dodgy especially if he ran out with some fruit or a biscuit in his little hand.
The seagulls are a problem more than ever before, maybe some of these landfill sites are to blame too.
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I was visiting a friend in Denbigh recently and the seagulls have recently started nesting on roofs there, the residents are already growing very tired of the noise and mess.
Seagulls are not neccesarilly restricted to seaside areas. For many years they have been residents
of many of the inland landfill sites in the UK. I remember when living in the Midlands, the furthest place from the sea in every direction, and the waste dumping grounds were the happy hunting grounds for thousands of them. They could well have been renamed, Landgulls! :D
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Whilst walking round West Shore yesterday, I noticed that the model yacht pond was full of gulls. More relevantly to this thread, about 80% of the gulls were young gulls with the greyish markings, i.e additions to the gull population this year. I do think we're looking at a massive explosion in the gull population and it can only get worse and worse. CCBC can only bury their head in the sand on this issue for so long...
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Do you think the gull population congregate there because of the fact that the pond is fresh water?
I seem to think that there are less swans this year--or were they just missing when I passed?
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Do you think the gull population congregate there because of the fact that the pond is fresh water?
I seem to think that there are less swans this year--or were they just missing when I passed?
I saw about 5 swans when i passed yesterday, so I think they're still about.
I don't know if the gulls mind if its sea or fresh water? I've seen a hundred or more of them sitting in the sea just by the pier recently.
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I can't imagine that they drink sea water ??????? Most birds need to drink quite alot, but I don't know much about the habits of seagulls---only the noises in the early hours.
We still have a slight goat problem-- a lone Billy seems to be on the loose in the area during the hours of darkness. Quite off putting when it leaps off a wall in front of you in the dark.
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Gulls can drink both fresh and sea water, as they have a set of glands above their eyes to flush the salt from their systems through openings in the bill.
That goat probably lives in the long grass at the Royal Hotel. :laugh:
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Thanks for the info about the gulls.
I will look for the goat when I walk past with the dog !
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there was a bloke holding chips above his head for the gulls to fly up and take them out of his hand just near the spot were you took the photo Dave, there must have been sixty or more around his feet, it was the older gulls that were taking the food but how long before the young ones start to do the same.This was about six (I think) just as the cloud came over.
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CCBC can only bury their head in the sand on this issue for so long...
And we say they're no good at anything :'(
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there was a bloke holding chips above his head for the gulls to fly up and take them out of his hand just near the spot were you took the photo Dave, there must have been sixty or more around his feet, it was the older gulls that were taking the food but how long before the young ones start to do the same.This was about six (I think) just as the cloud came over.
He must have been out of his mind ! :o
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I see people bringing bags of bread and other scraps to feed the seagulls every day on the pier.
I am usually alerted to it by that horrible guttural squawking scream that they make, when they are alerted to a feeding frenzy.
A few of the ultra-orthadox Jewish families were doing this last month, until I mentioned to them that if they were seen doing this, they would get a 'spot-fine' of £75. That put an instant stop to it.
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I see people bringing bags of bread and other scraps to feed the seagulls every day on the pier. I am usually alerted to it by that horrible guttural squawking scream that they make
Were they day trippers from Liverpool?
I always remember the horrible guttural squawking that used to emanate from the Kop.
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_))* _))*
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A slightly disturbing twist to this Seagull issue.
For the last few days the Conwy Hawks have been on the pier which have always kept the Seagulls at bay for the whole day.
But no longer!
Now, the vastly increased numbers of Gulls are brave enough to skim over the heads of the tethered hawks in a threatening manner.
They have either figured out that the hawks are restrained and therefore no threat, or they are now bolder because there are so many seagulls in ratio to the hawks. Whatever the reason, the balance of power has changed!
If I were responsible for the hawks, I would henceforth keep them out of harms way.
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Just read this on the Daily Post website - "SEAGULL RESCUE: Several people waded into the sea to free two seagulls apparently stuck in a net near Llandudno Pier off North Shore. Police alerted coastguards at about 5pm but by the time that officers and coastguards got there the birds were free and the incident was over."
Er, why?
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Good question Andy.
If I had encountered them trapped in a net, I would have taken them home and interrogated them intensely, regarding the theft of several ice-creams, and a very important cheese and onion pasty.
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you forgot the assault and battery
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I dont remember them being this big as a kid, are they a different type now?
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Nah they're the same type - herring gulls .
They have just adapted to the times & are opportunists as they always were, but as people keep feeding them on the prom, they see any food displayed as a meal.
Its not the fault of the gulls - - Its the people that feed them that are at fault.
Examples : St Ives Cornwall - - They had BIG probs with seagulls pinching any food in sight. - - they made it an offence to feed them. The seagull numbers have now declined & the remaining ones are not quite as opportunist as the Llandudno ones.
Whitby north Yorkshire. Again feeding the gulls is a no-no. A portion of fish & chips can be eaten on the quayside without much risk of gull attack.
LLandudno has not had as much problem with gulls as these places as they are both fishing ports - so if a no feeding policy was put into place & more importantly reinforced then surely the problem would be minimised.
Personally, I like the gulls, so in my opinion I would say leave them be - Its nice to be woken by the birds, even if it is 4am in the morn!!!
If you live in the country the birds are awake & loud at 4am, & can still be vocal throughout the night.
CCBC Need to enforce a no feeding policy throughout the borough then in the whole this prob will be solved.
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I can't see how a CCBC bye-law will prevent the gulls from stealing peoples' food (which is the main problem) or stop their increasing encroachment into the town with their nests, resulting in residents being attacked for several months of the year.
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I can't see how a CCBC bye-law will prevent the gulls from stealing peoples' food (which is the main problem) or stop their increasing encroachment into the town with their nests, resulting in residents being attacked for several months of the year.
They could always employ a private security company to hand out fines to any seagulls caught breaking the bye-laws.
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or bring in the flying squad
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:laugh:
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My 5yr old grandson had his ice cream knocked out of his hand by a seagull near the pier this afternoon.
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Introduce more wild Peregrine Falcons, perhaps? ?{}?
I see that happen dozens of times a day Sara, one of these days a child will be badly injured, then perhaps 1-Rob-1 will take a slightly different view if he was to witness it? ?{}?
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Walking along the prom yesterday afternoon there was an elderly couple sitting right on top of a don't feed the seagulls sign, slurping from cans of beer, crumbling bread, obviously brought for the purpose, and throwing it to the gulls. There were so many on the ground, let alone wheeling above, it was impossible to pass.
I approached and asked if they hadn't read the sign and did they realise that they were doing harm to the birds?
The reply, mumbled through a mouthful of beer was that the birds were hungry. I gave them a scathing look whereby bad language was muttered back.
Not a soul around to enforce anything-- indeed can anyone enforce anything?
In Barmouth the 'Don't feed the birds' signs carry the threat of an up to £5,000.00 fine. Hefty I know, but their gulls are nowhere near as aggressive as the ones here.
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No CCTV to enforce it? Or make it part of the dog warden / litter warden / traffic warden's duties to enforce it?
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I have had a word with my local councillor who told me who to contact. I have E- mailed same. Will keep you posted.
Something will have to be done before we are overrun. I am as bigger bird lover as I know you are ME, but It isn't the fault of the birds-- It is the ignorant people who always know better-- I ask you-- Hungry? Most of them can hardly waddle with their chip induced waistlines !
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Dont get me wrong, I like the seagulls, but I would wish no harm from them on anybody.
A seaside resort probably wouldnt seem right without them.
As I previously pointed out, the problem is with the irresponsible people that have been feeding them over the years. - They have learned that there are easy meals to be had in the area, whether this is food freely given to them or food they steal - they dont/cant differentiate.
Also because food is so freely available in the area, their population has increased.
Culling them will not work, as they will just repopulate back to their current numbers, unless the underlying problem is solved - stopping their food supply.
If their food supply is cut, the numbers will slowly go down & they should slowly become less aggressive - this would take a number of years though.
As Nemesis posted, & I have previously pointed out, the majority of seaside towns that rely on tourism for most of their income, make it illegal to feed the gulls & have many high profile signs threatening people of legal action & massive fines for feeding the gulls.
These measures have been proven to work - without a cull.
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Exactly 1_Rob_1. The problem isn't the birds, it is the daft people who ignore signs, don't use their common sense and feed them.
The reply from the person I e-mailed passed the buck and said that the prom was under the jurisdiction of the Harbour Master.
Time he addressed the problem.
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The reply from the person I e-mailed passed the buck and said that the prom was under the jurisdiction of the Harbour Master.
Cummon, Nem! Everyone knows that seagulls don't fly over the town, or my house, or any of our houses, or so that absolute idiot obviously thinks! :D And, of course, people only feed them on the prom, and the seagulls only bother people on the prom! The employee needs sacking for his, or her, lack of understanding or concern. >>>
Write to Iwan Davies, the Chief Executive or email him, iwan.davies@conwy.gov.uk. Don't bank on any assistance from the Harbour Meister he couldn't even understand my complaint! :rage:
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I might be missing something here..but I still don't see how a byelaw will deal will the problem? If people obey the byelaw and don't feed the birds, then surely the existing gull population will become more desperate for food and, thus, more aggressive towards humans to steal their food? It also doesn't address the problem of gulls nesting in the town in ever larger numbers every year and being extremely aggressive towards residents for several months of the year? If a dog was running loose and attacking residents, it would soon be dealt with, why should it be any different for the gulls?
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Of course any bye-law is only effective if it is rigorously policed. It can only be efficiently policed with a suitable supply of manpower and that costs us all.
Maybe a couple of very, very large modelled birds being wheeled up and down the prom would frighten the feeders and the fed alike! :o
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Bird's population levels depends on available food, cut it down and less birds will breed, but it won't take effect overnight. I remember feeding the seagulls on the pier in the Sixties as a child, but I don't remember any attacks from them?
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I might be missing something here..but I still don't see how a byelaw will deal will the problem
It would - eventually. But it's a long term process, and the results might take years. Far more efficient would be to offer a bounty for eggs or gulls WWW
More seriously, the analogy with dogs is flawed, Dave; Rob's suggesting the gulls attack for two reasons: food and protection. Dogs that atack humans are usually either badly trained (or have badly trained owners) or they're showing signs of Rabies. Either's excellent reasons for havng them put down. The dogs, of course...but on the other hand...
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I have had somewhat of another inconclusive reply which sounds more like back -feed from some meeting or other.
To my mind the general thing seems to be that we need someone who doesn't act like some power crazed idiot on the prom, in a uniform, to deter not just seagull feeding, but littering, boozing and other 'misdeeds'.
This obviously will not solve the problem, but at least people would know that someone was around in some kind of authority.
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[More seriously, the analogy with dogs is flawed, Dave; Rob's suggesting the gulls attack for two reasons: food and protection. Dogs that atack humans are usually either badly trained (or have badly trained owners) or they're showing signs of Rabies. Either's excellent reasons for havng them put down. The dogs, of course...but on the other hand...
Regardless of the reason for the attack, the attack still occurs and the person gets injured - that is the point. It's unacceptable, whether it's a dog, gull or any other creature responsible.
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Regardless of the reason for the attack, the attack still occurs and the person gets injured - that is the point. It's unacceptable, whether it's a dog, gull or any other creature responsible.
But what if it was a cow protecting its calf? Reason has a lot to do with it.
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Regardless of the reason for the attack, the attack still occurs and the person gets injured - that is the point. It's unacceptable, whether it's a dog, gull or any other creature responsible.
But what if it was a cow protecting its calf? Reason has a lot to do with it.
That's not likely to happen in central Llandudno, Ian! We're talking about people being attacked by gulls in the grounds of their own houses or when walking down the street. It's really not acceptable.
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Yes, but Llandudno is a semi-rural area. Think about this: would you fence in the Ormes completely because some folk might fall off? All I'm saying is that part of our attraction is the very wildness that concerns you.
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There used to be a Bye Laws Inspector who monitored the Promenade, to enforce the Bye Laws, such as the no feeding of the gulls. I think his name was Jack Richards, perhaps his position was not replaced when he retired, &shake&
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As far as I know there has not been a bye-laws Inspector for at least 20 years. Under the Harbour Meister, Tony Mead, there was 1 Promenade Inspector, 1 Imperial Slipway Attendant, 1 Deck Chair Attendant and a Seaboard Inspector who checked Safety Equipment on all the Water sides. These people were all employed on a purely Seasonal basis from April to September but had no instructions regarding feeding seagulls or its prevention. Other staff were employed in Conwy on Harbour duties.
The original Bye-laws Inspector had duties mainly within the Town Centre Area. ZXZ
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Yes, but Llandudno is a semi-rural area. Think about this: would you fence in the Ormes completely because some folk might fall off? All I'm saying is that part of our attraction is the very wildness that concerns you.
But we're not talking about what goes on up on the Orme, really. The issue is Gulls nesting in ever greater numbers every year in an urban environment and becoming aggressive towards residents and visitors. They are moving into the town, not vice versa, and this is a problem that can only get worse and worse. Typically, CCBC's response is to ignore it until it becomes a crisis.
"Peter Rock, an avian expert who claims to know more about urban seagulls than anyone else on the planet, has been warning of their ascent for some time but it is only recently, as the scale of the problem has become apparent, that officials have begun to listen to him.
The invasion of the urban gulls began, quietly and cautiously, almost a century ago. The authoritative guide to British bird life, Birds Britannica, records that herring gulls 'were the original pioneers' of nesting on buildings and breeding on roof-tops, a habit they acquired only in the 1920s.
The lesser black back was 'a relative latecomer to the habit. The first recorded instance was on factory rooftops in Glamorgan in 1945 [and] by 1970 there were still only 60 pairs nesting on buildings throughout the country.'
The numbers are now extraordinary - and you don't even have to live by the sea to be under threat. At the last count, back in 2004, Gloucester had 1,996 pairs of gulls, Worcester 342, Swindon 87 and Cheltenham 151.
It is Rock's contention that even in towns and cities far from the coast, we could soon be overrun. 'Three years ago, I estimated that we had 130,000-180,000 pairs of gulls nesting on rooftops in the whole of Britain and Ireland. It's quite clear that the growth of these urban colonies has been startlingly high.
'If you work on the breeding rates - urban gulls both start breeding earlier and hatch more chicks than those in the wild - and project forward ten years from that figure, I estimate that by 2015 we could have over a million pairs of gulls nesting on our rooftops.'
Already, we are alarmingly close to the first urban 5,000-pair colony, which is likely to be in Aberdeen, where some 3,500 pairs of these rapacious pests have already made themselves at home. Once settled in, gulls virtually never return to the wild, they are urbanised for life - a very long time, considering that the average seagull lives to 20 years, and the record is 35.
'It is a very serious problem,' warns Rock, who besides researching gulls in conjunction with Bristol University has worked as a freelance consultant to some of the many councils desperate to rid themselves of this modern-day plague. 'The urgency of getting something done is intense. But it's not easy because the gulls always seem to be one step ahead.'
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1110974/Meet-new-neighbours-The-marauding-seagulls-invading-Britains-towns.html#ixzz2gTYlPi00 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1110974/Meet-new-neighbours-The-marauding-seagulls-invading-Britains-towns.html#ixzz2gTYlPi00)
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This problem is not limited to the UK. When we first went to The Algarve over 40 years ago it was extremely rare to see even one of these birds. If one was seen it was generally off course and had missed its way to the fishing ports.
Nowadays, they are as common in our chosen resort as in Llandudno. This is probably due to the same reasons as here, being fed by holidaymakers, and also plenty of swimming pools to wallow in! One hotel where we stay has nylon fishing line criss crossed over the outdoor pool and sun bathing area to keep them away. This barricade is almost invisible and about 15 feet from the ground so does not interfere with ones enjoyment. ZXZ
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Well, as soon as an MP gets attacked near the Commons, there'll be culling arranged nationwidw...
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Is it me or have the seagulls become far more active/noisy in the last few days in central Llandudno? I wonder if the mild weather had led them to think that Winter is over and begin preparations for nesting?
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i v,e noticed that dave walking along the prom last few days they seem to have come more lively
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Where does the other 90% of our local seagull population go for the winter?
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Is it me or have the seagulls become far more active/noisy in the last few days in central Llandudno? I wonder if the mild weather had led them to think that Winter is over and begin preparations for nesting?
They have been 'sussing' out the local chimneys for a week or two now.
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There are a few scouting out nesting spots in Conwy Town, I am dreading the noise and mess to follow. :-[
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We often go to Malta
There are no seagulls on the island
The Maltese are well known for shooting any type of bird; this saddens us, but it's their way of life - in spite of it being against the law to shoot most types of birds
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There are a few scouting out nesting spots in Conwy Town, I am dreading the noise and mess to follow. :-[
The mess is starting new residents that do not recycle, are putting their over stuffed bins out for collection tomorrow morning, and the seagulls are pulling out the bags and shredding them. by tomorrow the street will look like a landfill site so much for a world heritage site.
p.s I have chased off the seagulls, and redistributed the rubbish so the lids can be closed. not how I envisaged spending my retirement, but the youngsters just dont care &shake&
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Conwy Council won't fine seagull feeders because it may offend 'religions'
People who encourage scavenging seagulls won’t be fined – because it might offend religions.
A local authority had considered seeking powers to punish those who contributed to the scourge of gulls in its seaside towns.
But the Daily Post has learned Conwy council shelved the plan after being advised it might conflict with the rights of people with certain religious beliefs.
It appears other councils on the North Wales coast are unwilling to legislate against those feeding and encouraging gulls to come closer to human sources of food.
A spokeswoman for Anglesey council said: “Anglesey council has not considered fixed penalties to people who feed seagulls, as we wouldn’t have the staffing to ensure the legislation is enforced.”
In Flintshire seagulls are not deemed a big enough problem, and in Gwynedd they believe dealing with the root cause of the problems with gulls is the way forward but are not legislating against those who feed them directly.
A spokesman said: “The matter has been discussed by members of the full council with a report which included a number of possible options on the control of gulls considered by members.
“Members decided that the council should continue to provide information to property owners/occupiers on actions they can take to stop attracting gulls into towns and villages.”
Conwy’s head of tourism and leisure, Jim Jones, revealed the council’s stance in a Tweet in which the subject of fining those who feed seagulls was raised.
The Tweet read: “We looked at the issue of fines, but were told it’s the right to feed birds within some religions!”
We asked Conwy Council to confirm whether this was the case. A spokeswoman said: “There isn’t a bylaw regarding the feeding of seagulls although we do actively discourage it.”
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/conwy-seagull-feeders-fine-religions--9695758 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/conwy-seagull-feeders-fine-religions--9695758)
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:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
What religion practices feeding Seagulls exactly?
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I don't know about seagulls exactly, Indian Hindu's feed all animals and the Parsi are amongst other religions including Vajrayana Buddhism that feed their dead to vultures, considerately cutting the bodies up into bite sized pieces for them.
Does Jim Jones advocate this in Conwy?
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What religion practices feeding Seagulls exactly?
A council spokeswoman added: “There isn’t a bylaw regarding the feeding of seagulls although we do actively discourage it.”
While the right to feed seagulls is not spelled out by any specific religions several including Judaism and Hinduism encourage believers to take care for animals. REFWales on line
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the Parsi are amongst other religions including Vajrayana Buddhism that feed their dead to vultures,
There's good reason for that. Vultures assimilate toxins and excrete harmless compounds of those toxins. But most importantly, Vultures totally consume a corpse. It's a complex subject, but Zarathushtra had a lot to do with the tradition which actually makes a lot of sense.
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the Parsi are amongst other religions including Vajrayana Buddhism that feed their dead to vultures,
.................. which actually makes a lot of sense.
In Llandudno............? _))*
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A council spokeswoman added: “There isn’t a bylaw regarding the feeding of seagulls although we do actively discourage it.”
Is that correct?
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A council spokeswoman added: “There isn’t a bylaw regarding the feeding of seagulls although we do actively discourage it.”
Is that correct?
Hi Bri, the sign does not say "feeding the Gulls" is an offence, but littering including foodstuffs is......same difference I suppose.
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the Parsi are amongst other religions including Vajrayana Buddhism that feed their dead to vultures,
.. which actually makes a lot of sense.
In Llandudno............? _))
Well. perhaps not _))* _))* _))* but I suppose we could resort to the Norse traditions of floating burials... Could be a new use for the Pier, I suppose...
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Seagull fightback begins as Conwy council introduces bye-law to crack down on feeders
TOWN HALL bosses are to bring in tough measures to crack down on people who feed seagulls in a big to tackle the
Conwy council say they will introduce the law by the end of the year to ban the feeding of the birds on Llandudno's North Shore.
This week, the Daily Post highlighted how people were coming under attack from gulls, who were swooping to steal their food.
The council up to then had not sought powers to stop people encouraging the birds by feeding them, and a senior official suggested that the reason there was no enforcement power was because the council was afraid of upsetting people whose religion encourages them to feed birds.
Conwy Council won't fine seagull feeders because it may offend 'religions'
But today, Conwy has told the Post that officers are now working to draft a bye-law which will mean they can punish residents and tourists who give the birds food.
"The Local Government Byelaws (Wales) Act 2012 came into effect on 31 March 2015 and allows local authorities a quicker process for introducing byelaws. Officers are in the process of drafting a byelaw to prohibit the feeding of seagulls on North Shore, Llandudno, this should be finalised later this year."
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/seagulls-conwy-council-religion-bye-law--9706365 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/seagulls-conwy-council-religion-bye-law--9706365)
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USA faith leader steps into row with Conwy council over 'religious freedom' to feed seagulls
Conwy council has found itself embroiled in an unlikely row with one of the world’s most prominent Hindu faith leaders over its plans to fine people who feed seagulls.
Rajan Zed, a leading Hindu statesman from Nevada, USA, said he was disappointed that the council had decided to punish people who feed birds, which in his religion play an important role, with many deities taking the form of birds.
Mr Zed - who is so well known in America he is listed in Who’s Who? - suggested Conwy council was at odds with the right to religious freedom.
Mr Zed said “introducing ban on feeding birds would be blatantly disregarding the sentiments of some communities”.
According to the last census, there are around 250 Hindus living in the county of Conwy.
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/conwy-seagulls-hindu-religious-freedom-9721118 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/conwy-seagulls-hindu-religious-freedom-9721118)
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Has the world gone mad? It seems OK for a seagull to attack humans and animals but try and stop them and there's outrage from all sorts of sects.
My wife and feed the birds - the small ones in our garden. The food has to be put into cages that are inaccessible to the larger birds - pigeons and seagulls being the biggest nuisance as they also get into the house if the back door is left open, and into the garage to steal our rabbit's food (he lives in the garage and the door is left open for him to have free access of the back garden!).
My garden pond has a cage over it as we caught a seagull actually taking live fish last year - I didn't think they did that until I saw it happen with my own eyes.
It needs a cull on seagulls - they are nothing more than flying rats, and you're perfectly OK to put down poison to "feed" them without fear of breaking the law.
I don't see the point of fining people for feeding them - who is going to police that, or wil it be the same people that currently police litter-throwing? They seem to be well-qualified at catching people.
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I feed the birds every day and don't discriminate which birds I do feed, but I only feed them in my back garden. The Council do not make by laws just for the sake of it, so I respect their rules and abide by them.
If the Council was scared of offending a very tiny minority of people then they would never make any rules whatsoever and that would in turn offend the vast majority of people.
The UK is a very tolerant nation but sometimes the views of the majority of the population should not be undermined by those of a tiny percentage of the population.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z-6l-905zD0/ (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z-6l-905zD0/)
Not very helpful in sorting out the problem but I found this amusing.
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It needs a cull on seagulls - they are nothing more than flying rats, and you're perfectly OK to put down poison to "feed" them without fear of breaking the law.
Do you poison Seagulls?
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I would have thought that poisoning any birds would be illegal? Any creature or child could pick it up?
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What I said was that it is OK to put down poison to get rid of rats, quite legally - so why not something legal to get rid of seagulls which are another pest?
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Rat poison should only be put down in "Rat Runs" and not left lying on the ground for any animal or child or person to have access.
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Here we go again.........
"A special seagull committee could be set up by Conwy Council"
"Conwy’s communities scrutiny committee will debate the pros and cons, and suggest a new committee to look at the problem"
"Setting up a task and finish group to look at “other possible options, including undertaking research of what is being done in other areas of the country”.
£££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££
Conwy wants SEAGULL committee to tackle problem of divebombing birds
A special seagull committee could be set up by Conwy Council to work out how to deal with the marauding birds – without ruffling the feathers of any religious groups.
Divebombing gulls are a particular problem on Conwy Quay and Llandudno's North and West Shores, leaving mess and attacking people for food.
Business owners and tourists have called for something to be done about the pests and Conwy County Council had planned to bring in laws last year to fine anyone caught feeding the gulls.
That didn’t happen but, after repeating their commitment to dealing with the problem in January of this year, the council has now put the matter back on the agenda.
MORE http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/conwy-wants-seagull-committee-tackle-11207311 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/conwy-wants-seagull-committee-tackle-11207311)
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How about this, and we have our own CCBC Falconer, Tony Jackson from the Welsh Mountain Zoo.
"Birds of prey are a natural ‘threat’ to gulls so their presence at a location will scare and deter them from the area. As the threat is perceived as potentially lethal by the gulls it will always remain effective. It also reinforces the need for the gulls to look for an alternative site for future breeding.
Falconry works by changing the gulls pattern of behavior in an area. For example, by having a program of intensive visits for a period – usually daily for a short period – birds of prey forces nuisance birds to change their habits quickly. A falconry programme with regular visits can be used to maintain a predatory presence to protect "