Three Towns Forum
The Local => Times Past => Topic started by: Anthony.G on February 20, 2011, 08:43:09 pm
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Hello, I wonder if anyone has any info on the Jesmond Hotel that used to be in Llandudno.
My Mom and Dad, Arthur and Amy Gee worked in this hotel before the War, All that I know is that Jesmond was owned by a Mrs Morris and during the war was used by the Inland Revenue. After the war the Hotel was turned into flats. Now Jesmond is part of the County Hotel which is on the Prom at the other end to the pier.
My parents, no longer with us, loved Llandudno and my wife and I do love to visit the town.
I do hope that someone can help.
Bye the way, I am impressed with this forum.
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Hi Anthony.
Well done for joining the happy band of forum contributors.
It seems like you have quite a bit of information already, what would you like to know?
Then the 'brains' of this forum (and there are many of them) will no doubt swing into action on your behalf!
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Here's an advert from 1941 for the Jesmond Hotel:
[smg id=1182]
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Hello Dave R, Thank you for the poster advertising Jesmond. I am very pleased.
Hello Fester, I would like to find out anything about the hotel, there may be some pictures somewhere.
I have stayed at the County, and have been in the part that was once Jesmond and it might seem silly, but I find it a bit atmospheric to stand where my parents worked before I was born.
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Welcome Anthony, if anyone can find a photo Dave can.
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I have a postcard of the County Hotel in the 1960s - was the Jesmond on the right-hand side (looking at the photo)?
[smg id=1183]
(Click image to see full size version)
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:) These two are circa 1911 Anthony - a little before your parents worked at the Jesmond in the 1920's & 30's.
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:)
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Hello DavidR and Trojan, Thanks for the photo's. Jesmond was to the right on the photo's. Looking at the inside of the County Hotel it would appear that it is made up of three former establishments. Craig-y-Don, ----------------? and Jesmond. On the 1911 picture the central hotel has a sign but I cannot make it out. Any idea's?
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it would appear that it is made up of three former establishments.
This is quite common on Llandudno Promenade.
The Four Oaks Hotel, further away in the photograph, also comprises three former establishments.
I find it a bit atmospheric to stand where my parents worked before I was born.
By coincidence, I had the same experiece when spending all of the summer of 1993 at the Four Oaks Hotel with my family after the 1993 Flood Disaster and in the section where my Nain had lived and worked at the beginning of the twentieth century
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Looking in the 1929 Directory there is some confusing information, :
East Parade:
Craig-y-Don Hotel - Edward Edge,
1 Jesmond (Llandudno Ltd) - (Annexe) Nicholas T Morris,
2 Miss B.L. Perrin Apartments,
3 Mrs Mary Williams Apartments
Ormescliffe Private Hotel, Mrs C Allan Smith,
Here is a Pillar Letterbox.
Jesmond (Llandudno Ltd.) - Nicholas T Morris, boarding establishment,
The Craig - y Don Boarding Establishment - Middleton and Wood
Then it goes onto Craig-y-don parade
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I seem to remember a pic of my father's parents in a group outside the Sunnyside Hotel, these group photos seemed to be the 'in' thing in those days. They used to take the train to Liverpool and sail to Llandudno for their hols.
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I seem to remember a pic of my father's parents in a group outside the Sunnyside Hotel, these group photos seemed to be the 'in' thing in those days. They used to take the train to Liverpool and sail to Llandudno for their hols.
Here's a group photo outside the Craig-y-Don Hotel:
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Hello DavidR and Trojan, Thanks for the photo's. Jesmond was to the right on the photo's. Looking at the inside of the County Hotel it would appear that it is made up of three former establishments. Craig-y-Don, ----------------? and Jesmond. On the 1911 picture the central hotel has a sign but I cannot make it out. Any idea's?
On the promenade side it said "Boarding Establishment" then to the right "The Craig-y-Don". On the Queens Road side above the veranda it also said "The Craig-y-Don"
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Here's a better view from the 1930's of where the Jesmond would have been (just to the left of the saloon car on the promenade) - In between the Craig-y-Don Hotel (today'sCounty) and the Ormescliffe (today's Regency Royal)
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Hello, I would like to thank everyone who has replied to my post. I realise now that the Craig-y-Don was a much bigger hotel in the 1020's-30's than I thought. There is, in the County, an old picture from around 1900 which seems to indicate that the Craig-y-Don's main entrance, at that time, was in the road off the promenade.
I do wish that I had taken more notice when my parents spoke of their time in Llandudno, Perhaps most of us dont listen till it is too late.
The photo of people outside the Craig-y-Don is very impressive. Who knows, there may be a similar picture of Jesmond.
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:
East Parade:
Craig-y-Don Hotel - Edward Edge,
1 Jesmond (Llandudno Ltd) - (Annexe) Nicholas T Morris,
2 Miss B.L. Perrin Apartments,
3 Mrs Mary Williams Apartments
Ormescliffe Private Hotel, Mrs C Allan Smith,
Here is a Pillar Letterbox.
Jesmond (Llandudno Ltd.) - Nicholas T Morris, boarding establishment,
The Craig - y Don Boarding Establishment - Middleton and Wood
Then it goes onto Craig-y-don parade
I do remember Mom saying that Jesmond had an annexe, whether it was for staff of guests I don't know. I don't know were the annexe was but it must have been close to the Hotel.
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Topic created from Welcome.
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I think you will find that it was bought by Robert Clare Baxter of Clare's Department Store. On his death in 1950 it passed into the hands of his Daughter, Marjorie Gadd (nee Baxter). It was run as Holiday Flats until she sold the Jesmond to the County Hotel in the 90's. She also owned and ran (with her Sister) Baxter's Bon Man's and Ladies' Outfitters in Mostyn Street. Now Ponden Mill.
)*)&
Some may also remember Gadabout Travel that was operated by Mrs Gadd arranging villa holidays to the Algarve. D)
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That is very interesting. Thank you.
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Here's a better view from the 1930's of where the Jesmond would have been (just to the left of the saloon car on the promenade) - In between the Craig-y-Don Hotel (today'sCounty) and the Ormescliffe (today's Regency Royal)
The Jesmond is the First one with the lower roof line next to the Ormescliffe.
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Hello, Does anyone know if Mr and Mrs Morris, one time owners of Jemond, had a son named Marcus.
From an old paper of my Fathers I have a Marcus Morris living at 'Ashleigh', Deganwy Avenue. in the 1960's. I presume that this is a Llandudno address.
Best wishes Tony
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Deganwy Avenue is in Llandudno. I have a directory from 1969, but no listing for Morris. I looked in the listings for Deganwy Road (which is the main road between Llanrhos and Deganwy) and there is an "Ashlea" there but the householder's name is Parsons.
Unfortunately the 1969 directory does not have alphabetical residential listings, unlike the 1929 one. :-[
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Hello all.
Just a bit of inconsequential info. When I was a regular user of the skating rink in the early/mid 1950s, one of the expert roller dancers was Louise Bright from the Ormescliffe hotel and, to be impolitically incorrect, she was a corker! WWW
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can anyone remember a hotel or guest house called *THE BRYN* it was on queens road,craig-y-don probaby before 1960's
also can anyone tell me if the imperial hotel is still around or does anyone know people that worked there in 1955/1960 ?
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Yes, 'The Bryn' is a block of flats now.
[smg id=1225]
[smg id=1826]
1941 Advert
[smg id=2158]
1954 Advert
The Imperial is still one of Llandudno's leading hotels:
http://www.theimperial.co.uk/ (http://www.theimperial.co.uk/)
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wow david thanks so much for that info and the photographs....my dad & his sister apparently lived there with there dad around 1945/1950 there was talk that he owned the bryn but his name was james barr which isnt the name showing as propietor think ive got more digging to do now thanks again. $thanx$ $good$ :D
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Like the Oak Floor bit !
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Hi again :)
does anyone remember when the bryn was turned into flats ? or who owned the bryn after 1954 ? ive looked all over interent for any info but just cant find anything $thanx$
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Im now looking into the history of The Four Oaks Hotel, 1-4 Penryhn Crescent. Does anyone know when these building were turned into a hotel ? I have found 1-4 Penryhn Crescent on a listed buildings site which says Quote- ' A terrace of 6 houses built in the mid to late 19th century as properties for long seasonal letting to superior families. Numbers 1-4 now combined as The Four Oaks.'
My great grandmother is listed as living here at number 1 in 1906(aged 22)......i would presume as a servant of some kind. At the age of 17 on the 1901 census she was still living in Wednesbury so maybe answered an advertisement for a position in the house.
Would be grateful of any early photographs too ?
thanks , em. ;)
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Does anyone know where the Norwood Hotel, Llandudno used to be please? I have found a photograph of my grandparents on the wide steps outside the hotel, dated 1928. Many thanks
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Hi there, Norwood boarding establishment was at 4, Mostyn Avenue Craig-y-Don. Any chance you could post the photo?
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Im now looking into the history of The Four Oaks Hotel, 1-4 Penryhn Crescent.
Does anyone know when these building were turned into a hotel ?
I may be in a position to put you in touch with the family who owned and ran the hotel for a very long time before they sold up around five years ago.
They are family friends of ours.
If you are interested, emma p, I can approach them to find out if I may pass on their home telephone number to you.
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Im now looking into the history of The Four Oaks Hotel, 1-4 Penryhn Crescent. Does anyone know when these building were turned into a hotel ? I have found 1-4 Penryhn Crescent on a listed buildings site which says Quote- ' A terrace of 6 houses built in the mid to late 19th century as properties for long seasonal letting to superior families. Numbers 1-4 now combined as The Four Oaks.'
My great grandmother is listed as living here at number 1 in 1906(aged 22)......i would presume as a servant of some kind. At the age of 17 on the 1901 census she was still living in Wednesbury so maybe answered an advertisement for a position in the house.
Would be grateful of any early photographs too ?
thanks , em. ;)
In 1929 Penrhyn Crescent lists the following: 1. Four Oaks - Yates Mrs I.J. boarding house
2. St. Athans Pole A. & Smith J. Misses, apartments, 3.Claremont - Howell The Misses N & F & L Apartments, 4, Plas Pabo, Wood Mrs. E. 5. East Lynne Gammon Jack. 6. Sefton Gate Levis John William, boarding estb. 1 Sefton Gate Cottage - Rogers Collin, 2 Sefton Gate Cottage Quinton G. then "Here is Gwynedd Road"
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Didn't Gwynedd Road used to be that little road at the side of the North Wales Theatre (now vanished under the new extension)?
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I think so Dave running past the Cae Mor hotel. The next listing in the 1929 directory is the Arcadia Palais De Danse
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Gwynedd Rd still exists as the road leading to the rear of the theatre http://bit.ly/rhOzPW (http://bit.ly/rhOzPW)
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Gwynedd Rd still exists as the road leading to the rear of the theatre http://bit.ly/rhOzPW (http://bit.ly/rhOzPW)
You know, I knew I'd seen that name somewhere recently and that was it. It used to connect Mostyn Broadway with the Prom before the Theatre was built. Here's a photo of it from 1972:
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1061/5105821168_7004b29e42_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/36759493@N07/5105821168/)
Llandudno Coach Station about 1972 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/36759493@N07/5105821168/#) by Eagle 142 (http://www.flickr.com/people/36759493@N07/), on Flickr
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looking at dwsi's link I realise I'd thought the Cae Mor was much nearer to the Theatre than it actually is, but what was there before the car park, was it Kiddies Funland? it's quite a large area, just can't remember !
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It was Cae Mor, then Kiddies Funland, then Gwynedd Road, then the Arcadia...I think!
[smg id=384]
That circular ride in the foreground is where Catlins cafe in the Theatre is now.
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This advert is the Four Oaks in 1934, note the comment "Back entirely Open to Mountains"!
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It was Cae Mor, then Kiddies Funland, then Gwynedd Road, then the Arcadia...I think!
[smg id=384]
That circular ride in the foreground is where Catlins cafe in the Theatre is now.
more info on 'Kiddie's Funland' http://bit.ly/qt0Is8 (http://bit.ly/qt0Is8)
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Wow...it looks stunning ! thanks guys.
Yes Bri that would be great and could help alot with our quest.
I did ring the hotel and spoke to a lovely lady but unfortunately couldnt help and didnt think the current owners would have any old records as they wouldnt really be interested in 'that sort of thing'.....but she did put me onto a bit of a lead.
If you google The Four Oaks theres a link to 'findthehotel.co.uk' and if you scroll down to the reviews you come to one from a David Yates who states that the hotel was owned by his grandmother Mrs Ivy Simpson !
The name stated on Daves lovely picture.
The funny coincidence is that as i went into my story with this lady is that her grandmother lived in Tan-yr-gogo cottages and she herself lives in Kings Road.....wierd or what !
Love the picture of the fair.....i remember it well as a child and always went on the last night of our hols for a treat. Happy days. :D
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It was Cae Mor, then Kiddies Funland, then Gwynedd Road, then the Arcadia...I think!
It was Cae Mor, Kiddies Funland, Gwynedd Road, Aberconwy Centre and then the Arcadia.
emma p, I will get back to you in due course.
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What was on the Aberconwy Centre site before that was built? I can't remember.... :(
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Putting Green or Crazy Golf??? :D
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What was on the Aberconwy Centre site before that was built? I can't remember.... :(
Neither can I. :(
Yorkie, are you getting confused with the pitch and put between the Grand Theatre and St Pauls Church House?
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I possibly am Bri, my knowledge of the past is quite sketchy as all the old memories are from when I came up with the Mrs to spend the weekends with the inlaws in Rhos. Z**
Wasn't there also a rather poor quality skate park there at one time? :D
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What is now the Cae Mor car park was Abergaveny Road. Then there was a patch of empty ground next to the new theatre which they built the Cafe on.
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Wasn't there also a rather poor quality skate park there at one time? :D
The Skate Park is where the Theatre Car Park is now, between the Swimming Pool and LSP Garage.
Here's a pic of Gwynedd Road from the 1970s, showing that the answer to our question about what was next to the Arcadia is...a piece of wasteland with a stone wall around it!
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I think that was originally the skating rink
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Hi all,
Im once again in need of your knowledge !
I discovered yesterday that my Great-great Grandmother Mary Thomas was, in 1876 aged 21, working as a housemaid at The Royal Hotel, Church Walks.
This, i found on her marriage certificate to Enoch Roberts, of Ty-ny-coed aged 23.
Mary was possibly born in Penmon, Anglesey and her fathers name was Lewis Thomas.
Enochs father was Richard Roberts. I have them living at 3, Pendyffren, Glanwydden in the 1860 census.
I did ring the royal yesterday and asked if they knew of any old records. The girl i spoke to was going to ring back but not heard anything. Suppose it was a bit of a longshot !
I will also try the archives but any information anyone has will be gratefully received.
$thanx$
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I'm still looking for more information about the Rofft area, I've found mention of a quarry and a gravel pit:
CRAIG ROFFT GRAVEL PIT GRAVEL LLANDUDNO CAERNARFONSHIRE SH774831 [31627]
References: Ordnance Survey six-inch map of Caernarvonshire (2nd Rev.) Sheet No. I SE
CRAIG ROFFT QUARRY LLANDUDNO CAERNARFONSHIRE SH775832 [31628]
References: Ordnance Survey six-inch map of Caernarvonshire (2nd Rev.) Sheet No. I SE
Disused sandstone quarry on Craig Rofft, 180 m east of tram shed, on the Great Orme [SH 7755 8315]
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Hi dave,
Its a puzzler aint it !
Just rang the archives but no answer. Going out now so will try again later.
???
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emma p, after first obtaining permission for you, did you get round to telephoning the lady who used to own the Four Oaks Hotel for the further information you were recently seeking?
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Here's a pic of Gwynedd Road from the 1970s, showing that the answer to our question about what was next to the Arcadia is...a piece of wasteland with a stone wall around it!
It wasn't waste ground, that's where Kiddies Funland was originally.
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Trojan! You've risen from the dead..... :laugh:
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Trojan! You've risen from the dead..... :laugh:
Yes, but I took longer than three days. :votive: :votive: :votive:
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emma p, after first obtaining permission for you, did you get round to telephoning the lady who used to own the Four Oaks Hotel for the further information you were recently seeking?
Hiya Bri.....I havent as yet but i was going to try tonight. Wednesday is my quiet night. Let you know. :)
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Bri,
I spoke to Mrs.Jones earlier. She was very helpful and gave me some useful info and leads. Could you pass on my thanks please.
The Four Oaks was built in the late 1800's and whilst Annie was living and working there in 1906 it would have been a private residence used by superior families during the summer season.
I can only guess that Annie was some kind off housemaid.
Mrs.Jones family bought the hotel in 1952. Previous to that it was used by the inland revenue during WW2 and previous to that it was owned by The Methodist Association.
On a photograph i have found on here dated 1934 (i think) the word 'temperance' features so this would explain the Methodist connection.
Spookily again i come from an extremely Methodist family !
I will try to give them a ring.
Mrs.Jones also said it would be worth giving Mostyn Estates a ring.......i didnt think of that.
So some useful leads there.....thankyou for the number. :)
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This advert is the Four Oaks in 1934, note the comment "Back entirely Open to Mountains"!
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Mrs.Jones also said it would be worth giving Mostyn Estates a ring.......
Quite a few years ago, when I first started researching the history of our house (it being one of the oldest in the town) I found Mostyn's helpful. A lady called Sue ( if she is still there) furnished me with copies of old letters and alot of other info. I actually wrote to them rather than ringing up.
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Sue is still there and is most helpful. ;)
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I rang Mostyn Estates today.......waiting for someone to ring back.
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Are you still waiting Emma?
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Yes Hugo, as predicted ! I rang on the 25th August !!!! &shake&
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It doesn't surprise me Emma, I'm still waiting after a year! >?>??
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>It was Cae Mor, then Kiddies Funland, then Gwynedd Road, then the Arcadia...I think!
The older GPS you have in cars points the car park as Abergeveny road? A very busy history!! ~ Just looked back at the messages and that was already pointed out. When cas the Cae Mor built as it was 2 different hotels at one point?
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Abergavenny Road ran alonside the Cae Mor and what is now the Theatre.
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For SCMP
There were originally 6 separate properties in what is Penrhyn Crescent. The Cae Mor comprises numbers 5 and 6. Number 5 has been known by a number of names over the years, such as "East Lynne" and "Blackfriars". Number 6 was known as "Sefton Gate" - its main entrance was off Abergavenny Road rather than the Parade. When they were merged they presumably became "Cae Mor". The name "Sefton Gate" persisted as the name for a cottage (once two) off the side road (Abergavenny Road). I think the cottage was demolished as part of the development of the new swimming pool.
The trend since the second World War of merging boarding houses and hotels has led to the loss of many of the old names but these can be researched in the Llandudno Directories held in the reference section at Llandudno Library.
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Cambrian, are you sure East Lynne was number 5 and not number 4 (the end of the Four Oaks Hotel) ?
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To Cambrian:
Many thanks for the history of those two buildings, a lot of the information on the internet is about the fouroaks 'side' of the terraces.
I am sure that your right that number 6 was Sefton Gate as there is a pillar in the corner which has the word sefton engraved in it and there is another (which may have been moved when it was redeveloped) that has the word east engraved into it.
Thanks again
SCMP
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According to Slater's Directory of North & Mid Wales, 1895
Penrhyn Crescent was occupied by :-
1 - Tudor-Owen Rev. Edward M.A.
2 - Chorlton George
3 - Williams Richard, apartments, Claremont
4 - Dickinson L. & E. apartments, St. Bernards
5 - Penny Wm, aparts. East Lynne
Parker George, Sefton Gate
Riviere's Victoria Palace
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$thanx$
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Brian - No 4 was St Bernards, (see dwsi's post) then it was called Plas Pabo and eventually ended up as Penrhyn before being absorbed into the extended Four Oaks.
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Thanks, Cambrian.
I have obviously had it wrong for many years.
My interest was the fact that one of my grandmothers lived in East Lynne when she got married just before the outbreak of the First World War.
Ironically, our family stayed in the Number 4 Block of the Four Oaks Hotel throughout the summer following the 1993 Flood Disaster.
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Interestingly, i recently spoke to a former owner of 'the four oaks' who told me that it was owned by the methodist association at the turn of the century and i noticed in the previous list at number 1 is a 'Rev'.
My great grandmother was living at 1, Penrhyn cres when she married in 1906 (presumably working there).
There is also a picture of the hotel somewhere in the gallery....ill have a hunt. Im sure it states on the advertisement that it is a 'temperent' hotel.......is that the right word ?????
???
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[smg id=1304]
[smg id=1857]
[smg id=2036]
[smg id=2224]
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Just a thought prompted by the photos. It looks as if the original main entrance to the Four Oaks (no1) was actually off Tudor Road, this might explain some of the puzzlement over the number of doorways off the Parade into the terrace. Simlarly, the entrance for Sefton Gate at the other end of the block was off Abergavenny Road, when it became the Cae Mor, the entrance of the adjacent property off the Parade was used instead. I think the owners have now reverted to using the original one -now off the car park - as well.
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Some photos of the Gogarth Abbey/Penmorfa Hotel in its final days before closure:
[smg id=2638]
[smg id=2639]
[smg id=2640]
[smg id=2641]
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Thank you, yes I am new on here! Llandudno has certainly changed quite a bit. We lived there until 1976. Family still there although most of them in the ground. We owned the Wavecrest Hotel, which has now 'lost' it's name, very sad when I drove past a couple of years ago. The name which was near the top of the hotel has been removed :( My grandfather owned quite a few properties around the town, his name was John Henry Oliver. There was also a paddle streamer which was way before my time, my father told me it had been broken up many years ago.
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Welcome to the Forum Plas Penmon.
Tell us more about the Wavecrest. Is that the hotel now known as The Somerset on the promenade?
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Welcome to the Forum Plas Penmon.
Tell us more about the Wavecrest. Is that the hotel now known as The Somerset on the promenade?
Yes! It was the Wavecrest, can't believe they had the name which was made of stone removed! Would love to know any staff who worked there in the late 60's early 70's. Happy days!
The hotel was taken over during the 2nd.WW for the Ministry of Food, apparently they left it in a very sad state at the end of the war. Hard to imagine being hoofed out of your home/business for nothing. I remember guests arriving by the coach load, it was always busy. There was a chef called Tony, lovely man but he came to a sad end during the 70's. The last time I visited, I had a look in and couldn't believe my eyes, the carpet in the bar is the same. Dad bought the carpet in the 60's and said it was a good one. A time warp, only difference, everything seemed so much smaller! We moved in 1970.
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Welcome to the Forum, Plas Penmon. Very interesting memories, hope you'll have some more to share with us.
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I am sister of Plas Penmon, also very sad to see it is no longer Wavecrest, (hence my name). Lots of memories of the Wavecrest, the staff, Tony the chef always used to let me make cakes in the kitchen when he was busy. Sing songs with the coach loads of people in the evenings. Playing in the back yard which is now a big parking lot. I learned to ride my bike there. Lots of fun playing hide and seek in all the corridors of the four different levels. Never forget it!
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Plas Penmon/Wavecrest - good to hear your memories. I think Gerald and Mary Macara would have taken over from your people. I can recall Dorothy and Peter Oliver - they went to Torquay possibly ? Gerald was was a technician at the Pier looking after all sorts. He and Mary went to the Wavecrest from a guest house elsewhere in town. They retired to Deganwy and the hotel passed to their neice and her husband.
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Nice to hear from you, Wavecrest. As Cambrian says, it's great to hear these memories.
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Advert for the Wavecrest Hotel in 1972:
[smg id=2239]
...and in 1954:
[smg id=2190]
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Ooo, thank you for the info Cambrian, are they still around? The advert from the hotel in '72, Dad's car the E-Type outside :) Yes, we did all move to Torquay and I missed Llandudno terribly. We all live across the water now in IOM.
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Mary & Gerald Macara did take over the Wavecrest. Gerald was my Dad's best man and also worked with my Dad in the Pier Pavilion in the 1960's.
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I remember them, Dad said he remembered Gerald when he worked in the Pier Pavillion. Are they still around?
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Maybe your Dad knew my father, Bob (Bobby) Moubert, as I said he worked in the Pier Pavilion, electrician, with Gerald Macara. He also worked in the Savoy Cinema before we moved to London.
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Welcome to the Forum Plas Penmon.
Tell us more about the Wavecrest. Is that the hotel now known as The Somerset on the promenade?
Yes! It was the Wavecrest, can't believe they had the name which was made of stone removed! Would love to know any staff who worked there in the late 60's early 70's. Happy days!
The hotel was taken over during the 2nd.WW for the Ministry of Food, apparently they left it in a very sad state at the end of the war. Hard to imagine being hoofed out of your home/business for nothing. I remember guests arriving by the coach load, it was always busy. There was a chef called Tony, lovely man but he came to a sad end during the 70's. The last time I visited, I had a look in and couldn't believe my eyes, the carpet in the bar is the same. Dad bought the carpet in the 60's and said it was a good one. A time warp, only difference, everything seemed so much smaller! We moved in 1970.
The wavecrest and the somerset are one hotel but are only connected by one doorway on the ground floor. The bar in the wavecrest was last used in about 2000 and ended up as a storeroom. In January 2010 it was taken out and along with the small ballroom converted into a dining room. I remember the carpet in the bar it was dark blue and yellow with a nautical theme to it and was still in very good condition. unfortunately it ended up in a skip with everything else.
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How sad to hear :( lost for words, but great memories :)
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The East Lynne which was owned by Jack and Blodwen (my Dad's great aunts) Gammon is now the Cae Mor. I discovered this on a recent visit to Llandudno to follow up on family history. If you look at the one remaining pillar outside Cae Mor the inscription says 'East', the other pillar that has been removed said 'Lynne'
One of Blodwen's other sisters Margaret Williams ran boarding houses by the name of Cottesmore and Bod Ma apparently but I do not know more than that. Another sister Catherine ran Glascoed Guest House and brother Richard ran Roselea
The eldest sister and her husband Edith and John Roberts (my great grandparents) were proprietors of Mill House in Gloddeath St. When Edith died apparently the hotel became 2 establishments, Mill House (operated by her daughter) and the Dunoon (operated by her son). If anyone has any further information or photos about these establishments it would be appreciated.
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It would be interesting to know if the 'East Lynne' is still visible in the stonework behind the modern sign above the door.
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Would Mill House have been joined to the Dunoon as the Grand Ash is now or the property now known as Dunoon Lodge in Clement Ave?
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Cottesmore Boarding establishment was at 19 Gloddaeth Avenue and there was a "Bod Mai" at 8 Morley Road.
In the 1929 directory both establishments are listed with the name Mrs M.E. Williams. The Cottesmore seems to be in between Chapel Street and Deganwy Ave. I'm pretty sure this has been discussed before on the forum and was discovered to be the building now housing Llandudno Museum ?
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(http://)
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Both this and the above images are from a 1930's Brochure. Mill House was at 24 & 22 Gloddaeth St, adjoining the One Ash
(http://)
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I just love these ads and especially the reference to ELECTRIC LIGHT! Wow!! _))*
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One of the best phrases I have seen is "No Vexatious Restrictions" :o
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The mind boggles !! :o
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Ian is presently adding a large number of Hotel adverts from 1964 into the Photo Gallery:
http://threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=media (http://threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=media)
Here are a couple:
[smg id=2739]
[smg id=2744]
[smg id=2759]
[smg id=2765]
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I've managed to get hold of brochures for 1955, 1961 and 1964/6 and I'll be uploading these in the coming weeks. Some fascinating memories among them including hotels that no longer exist.
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Looking at some of the hotel ads from the 1960s certain phrases catch the eye.
"All china, cutlery and glassware washed and sterilised after use by modern methods"
"Old age pensioners welcome early or late season"
"The luxury of unrestricted hot water in your bedroom sinks"
One thing that did surprise me was the Grand was advertising parking in its own garage for 150 cars. Is that a basement car park or spaces at the side?
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One thing that did surprise me was the Grand was advertising parking in its own garage for 150 cars. Is that a basement car park or spaces at the side?
As late as 1992 The Grand had an arrangement with (the then) Aberconwy Borough Council to use the Maelgwyn Road car park off Gloddaeth Avenue. If I remember correctly they made an annual payment to the Council.
I do not know when it started and whether this information would match the brochures you have.
ZXZ
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Looking at some of the hotel ads from the 1960s certain phrases catch the eye.
"All china, cutlery and glassware washed and sterilised after use by modern methods"
"Old age pensioners welcome early or late season"
"The luxury of unrestricted hot water in your bedroom sinks"
One thing that did surprise me was the Grand was advertising parking in its own garage for 150 cars. Is that a basement car park or spaces at the side?
According to something I read the Grand had a garage and parking where Garth Court flats are now. Does this ring a bell with anyone else?
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No I don't think so that was ground belonging to the Royal. What they did have was a building in Church Walks think it was called Ormeside which housed all their staff. It's opposite the hotel next to the tram station on the other side ol Old Road. I think it's a block of flats now. Don't think there was any building on the Garth Court site prior to it being built but I may be wrong.
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The Grand Garage was at the end of Water Street so I expect some of Garth Court - if not all - would have been built on the site.
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$good$ $good$
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I've just started uploading the 1955 / 56 visitor guide, and I'm struck by how informal the written style is, compared with the 1966 version. There are also some nice non-PC ads in this one:
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And more...
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The first batch of colour pages is now uploaded (Photo gallery / holiday brochures) or follow this link (http://threetownsforum.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=media;sa=album;in=16;nw;start=180) and scroll down to "1955" images. I'll continue uploading the hotel ads, now, then move onto the 1961 brochure. I'm also wondering if it might be a good idea to have separate folders for the different brochures.
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I'm also wondering if it might be a good idea to have separate folders for the different brochures.
Probably, yes. Excellent work, Ian. $good$
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I've just started uploading the 1955 / 56 visitor guide, and I'm struck by how informal the written style is, compared with the 1966 version. There are also some nice non-PC ads in this one:
I believe Fester decided to move to Llandudno after seeing these brochures... :laugh: :laugh:
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One thing that's amusing is how many hotels claimed to be 'at the centre' of Llandudno. Both the Clarence and the Imperial did so. Another thing is the number that claimed to have garages for their clients' cars. The Grand is the most obvious, claiming 50, but others also claim 50 and 60 car garages. Where were these? And until I started on the 1955 de I didn't know we had a Dorchester.
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The Craigside claimed a garage for 60 cars, a claim which mysteriously disappeared by the 1965 edition. The Gege had a garage for 40, and several hotels had a 'tv theatre with projection television', albeit only one channel.
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Re hotels claiming they had garages for visitors cars. In the late 40s early fiftys virtually everyone kept their car in a garage at night. Indeed it was'ent until around 1970 that the law was altered to allow parking at night without lights.
Around 1950 I worked in Berrys Garage which still operates in the same place. Up an entry behind Mount Stewart hotel in Rhos. They used to be able to park, u der cover, around 35 cars a night. As the cars became larger, so the problems get them in the space grew. One reason I got the job there. The Berry brothers were both of ample proportions physically and I was always a lightweight, so much so that I had a lot of jokes made about me in school. But I could get out of a narrow slit when the time came to get out of the drivers seats after parking.
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Mike--re Berry's garage in Rhos. My OH bought a Green Daimler V8 reg. ULD 199F during 1998 from a dealer in Yorkshire complete with all it's papers. Amazingly it had had it's early MOTs at Berrys !!
We often wondered how anything large managed that narrow entrance.
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I'm about half way through the 1955 upload, but the good news is that I've managed to get hold of the 1951 guide. Reading the hotel descriptions is truly fascinating - like a journey through time which, of curse, to some extent it is. One thing that I noticed is that reading the first few pages of each guide (1951 - 1984) the command of English is far superior in the early guides to the 1984 guide. In the '84 guide the copy writer struggled to form a coherent sentence, and their punctuation was abysmal. Wonder what happened?
I'm scanning and uploading today, so more will appear on a regular basis. They're well worth browsing, as they reveal so much about Llandudno and how it's changed in sixty years. Sounded rather fun in '51 :-))) I'd also add that together with Dave's theatre programmes, poster and contracts they form an invaluable resource for anyone interested the social history of the area. I was surprised to see that performers doing no more than a single 20 minute appearance at the pavilion in 1947 were paid 70 guineas and provided with free transport between London and here. en what they were charging for theatre tickets, I wonder how they could afford acts like that?
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What an interesting find you have there Ian. Is it your own collection?
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The guides are, yes. I started trying to find them, as my father had left me a 1966 edition and I was interested in how the place had changed. Last week, we both trawled the second hand book shops in Colwyn Bay and Llandudno yet - surprisingly - ended up finding what we were looking for on Amazon :-)) I think one reason for the guides' value is that they stand as independent testaments to how Llandudno wanted to be seen. The hotel ads, in particular, also mark the incredible changes taking place in society following the second world war.
For instance, in 1955, when the rest of the UK was only just starting to acquire TV sets, the Imperial, among others. boasted 'large screen televisual theatre using projection television'. I can only imagine the cost involved. And taken with the contracts which Dave has managed to acquire, we start to see an image of a sharply divided society, in which some people had made a lot of money during the war, while others were probably little removed from the breadline.
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1961 guide now partially uploaded.
Must have been a lot of ex-merseysiders starting hotels in the '50s; Liverpool names like Granby hotel and Wirral names like the Ellesmere abound.
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It's amazing what you can find on Amazon.
Well done and thanks for sharing them with us.
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The 1961 guide is going to take a little more time, as I'm comparing every 1961 guide page with the same page in t955 guide,. There's clearly no point in re-scanning them, if everything's the same. Some of the changes are intriguing.
For instance, Between 1955 and 1961, the Craigside had an indoor swimming pool constructed. No idea if they still have it now, however.
M<ore interestingly, the 1955 page for the Empire hotel had this snippet:
"Incidentally, bars throughout Wales are closed to the public on Sundays but as a resident of the Empire Hotel you will be assured of the same facilities hotels in England."
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The North Western hotel ("Standing on its own island site") had 52 bedrooms in 1955, but only 50 by 1961. The Garage it offered had similarly decxreased from 20 cars in 1955 to 16 cars 61.
The County Hotel boasted "Snooker World Champion Fred Davies" as the hotel director in 1955, who had left by 1961.
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In 1961 there were 145 hotels operating in Llandudno. That figure excludes flatlets. In 1955, however, there were 147 hotels. The full liust of 1961 hotels is as follws:
Alexandra
Almora
Annan
Ascot
Augusta
Balmoral
Bay Court
Beaver Lodge
Bedford
Bella Vista
Belle Vue
Belmont
Belverdere
Birklands
Blackfriar’;s
Bodlondeb
Braeside
Branksome
Brannock
Brig-y-don
Brinkburn
Broadway
Bron Orme
Bry Derwen
Bryn y Mor
Cae More
Chatsworth
Cl;ifton
Clarence
Clonmenl
Concord
County
Covelley
Craigside
Cranleigh
Crescent
Cumberland
Derwenog
Dolphin
Dorchester
Drummond
Dunoon
Eagle Crest
Edclyffe
Eden Court
Ellesmere
Elsinore
Empire
Esplanade
Evans
Flockton
Gogarth
Grafton
Grafton
Grand
Grange
Grangemore
Gresham
Hafod Y Mor
Headlands
Heath House
Homestead
Hydro
Imperial
Jenivore
Kennilworth
Knowsley
Landsdowne
Lindens
Lockeyer’s
London
Malborough
Mary Dale
Merrion
Metrople
Metrople
Milverton
Morningside
Mountain View
North Western
Norville
Nuneham
Oak Alyn
one Ash
Ormescliffe
Osborne
Otterburn
Penlope
Penrhyn
Plas Fron Deg
Plas Madoc
Plas Marina
Plas Tirion
Puffin
Queen’s
Queensway
Quintoh House
Ravenhurst
Regent
Rhoslan
Riocksley
Risboro
Rochdale
Rothesay
Royal
Russel
Sandringham
Senarth
Shelbourne
Shropshire
Somerset
Southcliffe
St George’s
St Hilary
St Kilda
St Moritz
Sunneymede
Sunneyside
SWan Remo
Swn y Mor
Tan y Marion
Tan y Ralt
Thirlmere
Toronto
Treeway
Trevone
Tyndale
Uxbridge
Warwick
Wavecrest
Waverley
Wavertree
Wellington
West Bourne
West SHore
White Heather
White House
White Vourt
Whitefriar’s
Wilton
Woodland
Woodlee
Wyecliffe
Wyngarth
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The latest Guide book is in fact the 1950 version, which I'm just starting to scan. In terms of quality, this guide is made of cheaper paper, uses less colour and is stapled together with two massive and rusty staples. The paper is also yellower than all the others, and every photo is in sepia. Because the pages are so poorly stapled this is going to be harder to scan straight than the other guides, so some images might be a little tilted :-))
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...
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I've confirmed that the Grand's 'garage for 150 cars' was in Water street. The hotel also offered a valet service, whereby you gave the doorman the keys and he parked your car for you. Whenever you needed it, you simply told the doorman and it was brought round to the hotel. That was quite something, given the period in which it was operating.
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That was a time when The Grand, unlike now, was justifiably named. &shake&
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I've confirmed that the Grand's 'garage for 150 cars' was in Water street. The hotel also offered a valet service, whereby you gave the doorman the keys and he parked your car for you. Whenever you needed it, you simply told the doorman and it was brought round to the hotel. That was quite something, given the period in which it was operating.
Glad my memory isn't as vague as it can be at times ! $good$
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$bounce$
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;D
Has anyone been in Water Street recently? I always feel so sad that such a quaint little street should be overshadowed like it is by the modern monstrosity of the block of flats.
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A few posts back Ian comments on one hotel which had "lost" half a dozen or so bedrooms and a similar number of car spaces between 1955 and 1961. Well, the cars.My post a few days ago on this subject. Cars got considerably wider and had much larger doors in this period. Dont know about the guests, whether they had also grown in size
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The provision of ensuite bathrooms in the 1960s and 70s meant that most hotels "lost" rooms - mainly singles.
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Just when I thought I'd cracked the problem of the Grand hotel and its garage, I've run into issues attempting to confirm what I've been told. A local historian told me that the garage for the Grand was in Water street, but it had been built on the remains of the 'bath house reading room' which later became the Baths hotel. But from history.org, comes this:
The 168-room Grand Hotel is the largest in North Wales, and is a prominent feature of the view across Llandudno bay from the east. It was built in 1901 for Frances Doyle on the site of the old baths, reading room and billiard hall which had opened there in 1855. This was before the first pier had been built. The baths were later extended and became the Baths Hotel in 1879.
and most seem to agree that the Grand had been the Baths hotel. So that now prompts the question of whether the 'baths house reading room' was something else entirely, or merely a coincidental naming. Anyone got any ideas?
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Highly unlikely that there would have been two 'Baths House Reading Rooms', I'd say? Someone's getting confused, I think.
This is the original Baths & Reading Room:
[smg id=538]
It seems to have been extended once:
[smg id=11]
..and then again (from Landward side) to form the Baths Hotel:
[smg id=10]
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Thanks, Dave. Will continue my investigations into where the Grand garage was, then. Water street still seems to the most likely location, anyway.
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Interesting early photo of the Alexandra Hotel, showing it how it looked before the ground floor was converted into shops:
[smg id=3077]
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when we were running the washington hotel in the sixties i saw my first set of maroons go up.it was nasty day tide was in big waves hitting the beach so i ran upstairs across the ballroom floor opened the balcony doors onto the balcony just in time to see the lifeboat being pulled down the rampand into the water she was called the Anni Ronald and Isabella forest at the time i thought nothing of it.we came down on holiday in the eighties walking along the prom we ended up watching with others seeing the lifeboat coming down the road my daughter who was nine at the time said daddy.were is the house for the boat on the beach some visitors said oh this happens all the time it is still happening in 2012, looking in the paper some some hotel owners said they don,t want there view obstructed by a building. what a selfish out look .in my youth my crew and myself needed the rnli twice.you have the sailing club just across the road. think about it good night romanjohn.
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Anyone got a Craigside Hydro broxchure from about 50's? Apparently my photo. is in it!
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This tariff from the Craigside Hydro has recently surfaced on Facebook, courtesy of Edward Duller. Click image to view full size.
[smg id=3080]
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What year, d'you think? Early '50s?
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What year, d'you think? Early '50s?
Certainly 1950s, I'd have said.
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Craigside Hydro, any mention of it brings a bit of a dark shadow to my face. It reminds me of the day I came face to face with sudden death, not me but one of my schoolmates
On the other side of the main road there was a large building connected businesswise with the Hydro, used for indoor sports at one time and, I think, there were outside tennis courts. At the back of these buildings i.e. just above the cliff face going down to the beach, there was another small broken down, I think brick and/or stone, building.
I don't know much about the details, only what I heard in school. This lad, I've tried to remember his name but it wont come although I can picture him in my mind. He was messing around in this building and it collapsed down on top of him, killing him.
Again from school memories from around 1945, and not forgetting that he was not one of my friends, just another pupil I knew by sight, I was told he was buried in Llangwysterin churchyard Mike
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on a site called WHAT DAY OF THE WEEK has april 18 Thursday years 1946, 57,63,68,april 23 Thursday,1946,57,63,68,so it looks like 1957,phew 1956 was a leap year hope this helps.
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Yes - the mention of the Television theatre would suggest '57. Later than I suspected but I admit I haven't checked with the tourist brochure ad.
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Ormegolf's recollection is right. The small building was a pumping station used to pump sea water up to the hotel. There were three lads involved. They were juniors at the Inland Revenue which was in occupation at the Hydro. One lunchtime they went down there although there were warning signs and seemed to have moved some brickwork. The result was that most of the building collapsed on them Two were killed and the third was trapped. A supervisor from the Revenue went looking for them when they failed to return from lunch and came upon the tragic scene. The injured lad - from Llandudno - survived and gave evidence from a stretcher at the inquest a couple of weeks later.
The two lads who were killed were from Old Colwyn and Rhos on Sea; both were 17.
Recording a verdict of misadventure, the Coroner said "They must have known they were playing with fire; boys will be boys, that is the spirit which won the last war".
Before anyone asks, I happened to have seen the press reports in the Weekly News for 4th and 26th March, 1946; the incident itself happened on 1st March. Full details are in the report on 26th March.
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I never for one moment thought that anyone would remember this incedent. Indeed my memory of it is very sketchy. Cambrian obviously knows much more, or, Cambrian, is it just that you have read it up in the old papers? If so, do you have a particular interest? Since I read your post I have tried hard to remember the boys name. The surname Reader or Rhyder or something like that comes to mind, but I may be completely off track. Mike
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No great mystery. I was researching something entirely different a few years ago and came across the story in the paper I was looking at - it was covered in some detail. It seemed such an unusual tale I made a brief note at the time - which jogged my memory when you raised it Mike. I think you can access the newspaper on roll at either Llandudno Library or the Archives - full details of all involved and the events were given.
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Another thing is the number that claimed to have garages for their clients' cars. The Grand is the most obvious, claiming 50, but others also claim 50 and 60 car garages. Where were these? And until I started on the 1955 de I didn't know we had a Dorchester.
The Grand's Garage which used to take up to 60 Cars was sold off for redevelopment and is now Garth Court on Abbey Road. The St. George's Garage was pulled down in favour of an open car park as was the Merrion's on Ty Isa Road and I think the only 2 remaining Garages are behind the Elsinore in Somerset Street and the St. Kilda's on Bodafon Street.
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this happens all the time it is still happening in 2012, looking in the paper some some hotel owners said they don,t want there view obstructed by a building. what a selfish out look .
The Paper as usual got it WRONG. It was never about the loss of a view, that story came from the supporters of the RNLI. We as Hotelier’s objected to the sighting of an Emergency Service by RNLI Trading Company Ltd., at the centre of the Pedestrian Focal Point on the Promenade. To suggest anything else is nothing short of Scurrilous $angry$
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my father said many years ago never belive the papers all the time. iam very sorry for qouting the local paper i thought it was true .are their any developments on resiting the new station.in future i shall ask on here many thanks. romanjohn.
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Hi Romanjohn, the latest proposal I've heard about is to site a new station between the paddling pool and the Little Orme
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I heard that the station was to be reduced in size and trains between the Junction and Llandudno replaced by trams running along the old train route. With tram stops at regular intervals. WWW
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Some more hotel adverts from 1955:
[smg id=2973]
[smg id=2998]
[smg id=2990]
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The last is a superb example of the Art Deco movement, too; that's one that should be preserved. The old cinema in Llanrwst was of a similar style.
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Correct. But it didnt stop the Council from knocking it down Mike
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Sadly, no.
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Villa Marina is listed by Cadw.
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The last is a superb example of the Art Deco movement, too; that's one that should be preserved. The old cinema in Llanrwst was of a similar style.
Went past the other day and was surprised that it was beginning to show signs of wear from the last restoration.
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The last is a superb example of the Art Deco movement, too; that's one that should be preserved. The old cinema in Llanrwst was of a similar style.
There is a similar, but smaller, private house in the same Art Deco style near the roundabout in Penryhn Bay, (close to the post office, en route to the rear of Rhos Golf Club)
The Villa Marina though is currently sporting the most beautiful and massive Xmas tree in its lower lounge, which extends about 16ft maybe, surpassing the mezzanine floor above. VV
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Villa Marina is listed by Cadw.
But only Grade II...
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Whilst looking for something else, I found this superb aerial shot of the Craigside Hydro Hotel - click on it to view full size:
[smg id=3094]
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Greetings for the new 2013 everyone.
Regarding the Villa Marina post #156 the property does have an architectural pedigree, having been designed by Harry Weedon in 1936.
Weedon was the partner in the design practice of Clavering and Weedon, which during the 1930's designed almost all the 1930's Odeons nationally in the famous cinema circuit.
Whether Llanwrst fitted into the partnership series is unclear, but the Odeon, Colwyn Bay in the same year as Villa Marina certainly did.
Some more pictures and details here:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Weedon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Weedon)
http://www.ribapix.com/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo2OiJDb2x3eW4iOw==&pg=23 (http://www.ribapix.com/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo2OiJDb2x3eW4iOw==&pg=23)
http://www.ribapix.com/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo5OiJMbGFuZHVkbm8iOw==&pg=5 (http://www.ribapix.com/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo5OiJMbGFuZHVkbm8iOw==&pg=5)
http://www.ribapix.com/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo5OiJMbGFuZHVkbm8iOw==&pg=6 (http://www.ribapix.com/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo5OiJMbGFuZHVkbm8iOw==&pg=6)
http://www.ribapix.com/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo5OiJMbGFuZHVkbm8iOw==&pg=8 (http://www.ribapix.com/index.php?a=wordsearch&s=item&key=Wczo5OiJMbGFuZHVkbm8iOw==&pg=8)
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Im now looking into the history of The Four Oaks Hotel, 1-4 Penryhn Crescent. Does anyone know when these building were turned into a hotel ? I have found 1-4 Penryhn Crescent on a listed buildings site which says Quote- ' A terrace of 6 houses built in the mid to late 19th century as properties for long seasonal letting to superior families. Numbers 1-4 now combined as The Four Oaks.'
My great grandmother is listed as living here at number 1 in 1906(aged 22)......i would presume as a servant of some kind. At the age of 17 on the 1901 census she was still living in Wednesbury so maybe answered an advertisement for a position in the house.
Would be grateful of any early photographs too ?
thanks , em. ;)
My great grandmother Elizabeth Williams (Lizzie) was the cook in 4 Penrhyn Crescent in the 1911 census. It would be so great if anyone has a photo of the building at that time. This was before it was the 4 Oaks Hotel I suppose. Any info gratefully received.
Shirley (aka Blodwen Chardon - Llandudno Museum)
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Brian - No 4 was St Bernards, (see dwsi's post) then it was called Plas Pabo and eventually ended up as Penrhyn before being absorbed into the extended Four Oaks.
Do you know when the name changes took place? I am particularly interested in c1911 as my great grandmother worked there as the cook.
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The Parade Hotel (date unkown)
Note the Vadre Lane arch which no longer exists.
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Just found this interesting view of the old Bath House at the Craigside Hydro Hotel, dating from 1920. First time I've ever seen it.
[smg id=3264]
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It was Cae Mor, then Kiddies Funland, then Gwynedd Road, then the Arcadia...I think!
[smg id=384]
That circular ride in the foreground is where Catlins cafe in the Theatre is now.
more info on 'Kiddie's Funland' http://bit.ly/qt0Is8 (http://bit.ly/qt0Is8)
I remember Kiddies' Funland well, from when I stayed with my grandparents in the 70s. The mini ferris wheel made a "shoom-shoom" noise (like giant maracas!) as it went round. The trampolines were built into the ground and probably quite dangerous by today's standards! Loved to go here though.
We also went to the summer shows and panto at the Arcadia next door. (I've posted some photos of a Showtime programme from 1973 in the Photo Gallery, Theatre Programmes.)
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They should knock down that waste of space arena and build it back again. We need something for families in the town. I loved that place as a child and I know my own children would.
The extravaganza once a year is not often enough!
Do they still have Proffesor Peabodys on the pier these days? I've not been in a long time
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Do they still have Proffesor Peabodys on the pier these days? I've not been in a long time
They have a Clairvoyant, but last time I went by she was "Closed due to unforeseen circumstances!" :D
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My mum's family was from Llandudno; I used to stay with my grandparents in Deganwy as a child and was last back up there in 2006.
I've been reading the earlier posts in this thread with great interest, as I am a screenwriter and investigating the possibility of developing a TV drama set in wartime Llandudno. I was always intrigued by family stories of the wartime influx of the Inland Revenue taking over the seafront hotels and have been trying to find out more about this. I'm surprised it's not been much written about.
I'm ideally looking for personal stories from families who owned or worked in the hotels before the war: what happened when the hotels were requisitioned? Where did the hotel owners and their staff go for the duration, and how were they recompensed for loss of their businesses? If anyone has any records or recollections of how this all worked, I'd be very interested.
I'd also like to hear from anyone who worked for the Revenue in the town.
And also anyone with links to the POW camp at Pabo Hall. I have seen online the postcard written by a German POW to his family back home, but I know there were those who stayed on in the area after the war (e.g. a TV repairman my grandparents knew in Deganwy); there must be some stories from their families?
Please get in touch if you have any info. I'm based in London and am trying to research online at the moment, prior to a research trip to Llandudno further down the line, if I get some development funding.
Would love to hear from anyone in the meantime. Thanks!
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I'd also like to hear from anyone who worked for the Revenue in the town.
There is a lady in her late nineties living in Craig-y-Don who was the secretary for the boss of the Inland Revenue in Llandudno during WW2.
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Yes, I had seen a reference to her on here. I have been in touch with John and Barbara Lawson-Reay though, and I think they may have spoken to her and found that she could not remember much about it.
I know it's rather late now for first hand accounts, but hope to find some second or third generation family members who have been told about it or have photos and documents tucked away somewhere! I was going to ask you, Bri, if you have any contacts, as I noticed you mentioned various people you knew who had been connected with the hotels?
Thanks!
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DaveR
Very interesting photo of the bath house/pump house at the Craigside Hydro. The pump was used to convey sea water up to the hotel for use in the pool there. There was at one time a tank or reservoir at the rear of the hotel which stored the sea water.
A while ago I posted an brief account of a sad incident at the pump house. I will recap here so folk can relate to the photo.
On 1st March 1946, three 17 year old lads (from Rhos, Old Colwyn and Llandudno) were employed at the Hydro by the Inland Revenue. During their lunch break they had taken to visiting the old pump house and, given its derelict state, were given to knocking bricks out of walls. On that fateful day, their activities caused the upper floor of the two story building to collapse.
Their absence was noticed and staff went looking for them. A supervisor found the building in a state of collapse and investigated.
Two had died at the scene and the Llandudno lad was taken to hospital in shock and with leg injuries.
At the subsequent inquest on 26th March, at which the Llandudno lad gave evidence from a stretcher, the Coroner, noting the existence of warning signs, said "They must have known they were playing with fire. Boys will be boys - that is the spirit which won the last war".
Given this tragedy, it must be assumed the remains of the building were quickly removed afterwards.
Compared with today, it is noteworthy that a full inquest was conducted within the month.
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Bedelia
In addition to the IR (James Callaghan was here for a period and one of his daughters born in the local hospital) there were also the Coast Artillery School and Practice Camp; Companies House; and something called the Anglo-Spanish Clearing Office (which has a vauge whiff of MI6 or MI9 about it); the RAF radar station and a mysterious experimental radar station eventually demolished in 1956. The CAS is well covered elsewhere on this site and a leaflet is widely available locally. Plenty to be going on with!
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Hi Cambrian
In one of David Atkinson's papers that are lodged at the archives he mentions that one of the three bombs that landed on Llandudno during WW2 landed close to the Craigside Hydro pumping house. Is that the reason the pumping house building was in a semi derelict state?
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Hello Cambrian, history repeats itself. This incidence at the pumping house, you will remember that I raised this first on the forum, because I was in school with the lad from Rhos. I never, ever expected anyone to have any memory of this, but to my upper surprise you filed in with the details.
This was my very first experience of death, either sudden or otherwise. I can still, whilst in type this post, visualise this lad. I recall his hair style, his build, everything. He was buried in Llangwystenin church yard. Many from Colwyn Bay County school attended but I was not one of them, I didn't know him that well and he was not in my class and possibly not even in my year.
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and something called the Anglo-Spanish Clearing Office (which has a vague whiff of MI6 or MI9 about it)
Probably MI9, as it seems to have been set up in the mid-'30s, shortly before MI9 was established, although with the SIS, who knows? In 1937 there was a flurry of parliamentary questions relating to unpaid creditors as a consequence of the Spanish Civil war, so it appears to have been a conduit of funds for some reason.
I'd heard about the experimental radar station from someone stationed here during the war. He only knew it existed, not what it did, but I've long been curious as to what it might have been.
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MI9's emphasis was on evasion and avoidance in enemy territory. This is a 'Bloodchit' provided by them to servicemen which identified them if brought down in Soviet-held areas.
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This is an account of Airey Neave's escapes whilst held prisoner in WWII Germany and Poland. It makes for fascinating reading.
http://www.arcre.com/archive/mi9/neave (http://www.arcre.com/archive/mi9/neave)
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Bedelia
In addition to the IR (James Callaghan was here for a period and one of his daughters born in the local hospital) there were also the Coast Artillery School and Practice Camp; Companies House; and something called the Anglo-Spanish Clearing Office (which has a vauge whiff of MI6 or MI9 about it); the RAF radar station and a mysterious experimental radar station eventually demolished in 1956. The CAS is well covered elsewhere on this site and a leaflet is widely available locally. Plenty to be going on with!
Hi, Cambrian. Thanks for the reply. Yes, I'd read about Callaghan, Companies House at the Grand Hotel, the RAF radar station in the Orme complex, and the CAS - that leaflet was available on Amazon, but is currently out of stock; I'll try local outlets. The Anglo-Spanish Clearing Office sounds interesting; will bear that in mind.
However, what is still elusive so far is the experience of the hotel owners who were turfed out to make way for the civil service offices and personal accounts from those who worked for the Revenue (either locals or evacuees from London). If you hear of anyone, do please ask them to drop me a line here! Thanks again.
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Some photos of the Gogarth Abbey/Penmorfa Hotel in its final days before closure:
Stayed here with my mum in 1999 on our first visit back to Llandudno after a 20 year absence. She remembered it as an exclusive upmarket hotel in the 50s, where locals would go for functions, dinner and cocktails, and we thought it would be nice to stay on the quieter West Shore to walk our dog on the beach. (My grandparents used to drive to West Shore in the evenings to watch the sunset with a flask of tea; & when I was a child in the 70s, we'd go to feed the donkeys windfall apples in their field by Maesdu.)
So it was a huge disappointment to find it so run down, prior to redevelopment: sleazy fixtures and fittings and appallingly poor quality food - bread so cheap and thin at breakfast that toast stuck to the plate with moisture…! If we hadn't booked for week in advance and come such a long way, we would have walked straight out.
No surprise then to find that it had been sold for flats a couple of years later. They had no business to be trading like that. Such a shame.
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Bedelia - the leaflet is available free of charge from the Town Council or the Tourist Information Office at the Library.
The experimental radar station was built in 1942 and thought to be a radar training college. It went under the initials ADRDE - Aerial Defence Research and Development Establishment. A large concrete and brick with around 50 rooms the building was three storeys high, with a revolving dish on the roof and was nicknamed "Hatter's Castle" by locals. It was also known by the authorities as "X3". Always closely guarded, its true role still seems shrouded in mystery.
Many readers will have known or heard of the late Dafydd Hughes, the Madoc Street bookseller. He started his working life as a teenager with the Inland Revenue and moved with them for a period to the south of England when the department left Llandudno.
The Crescent Hotel acted as a cafeteria for civil servants.
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Thanks again, Cambrian. The experimental radar station was different than the actual RAF radar station in the Summit complex?
They have archive copies of the Llandudno Advertiser and the Ormescliffe Gazette (Inland Rev journal) at the British Library; I'm going to see them this week. Will see what these turn up.
Off thread, but also found this curiosity:
http://babylonwales.blogspot.co.uk/2006/06/pulp-fiction-in-llandudno.html (http://babylonwales.blogspot.co.uk/2006/06/pulp-fiction-in-llandudno.html)
Anyone know anything about this intriguing gentleman…?
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Hi,
Does anyone know the whereabouts of a hotel called (in1896) The Manchester Parade Hotel?
I have found that my g. grandparents stayed there in August of that year.
I found there names on a list of visitors to Llandudno that is online at the newspaper archives.
I suspect the Hotel's name has changed subsequently.
A photo would be a bonus if anyone has one.
Many Thanks
Rhuddlan.
Ps the paper was called The Llandudno Advertiser and list of Visitors
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Hi,
Does anyone know the whereabouts of a hotel called (in1896) The Manchester Parade Hotel?
I have found that my g. grandparents stayed there in August of that year.
I found there names on a list of visitors to Llandudno that is online at the newspaper archives.
I suspect the Hotel's name has changed subsequently.
A photo would be a bonus if anyone has one.
Many Thanks
Rhuddlan.
Ps the paper was called The Llandudno Advertiser and list of Visitors
I suppose the first place that springs to mind would be the Parade Hotel in Church Walks?
[smg id=2622]
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If you look on Google street view for Church Walks you'll see the building. It's not far from the Pier and next to it but across Vadre Lane is the Queen Victoria.
I've got a photo of the Hotel in 1933 when there was an archway between the Parade and the Queen Victoria. I'll send the photo direct to you by e-mail asap
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Does anyone know why the impressive archway leading into Vardre Lane was built. I grew up in a house opposite the Parade Hotel between 1940 and 1951.
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Does anyone know why the impressive archway leading into Vardre Lane was built. I grew up in a house opposite the Parade Hotel between 1940 and 1951.
I always imagined it would be a mews, leading to stabling for horses at the rear of the North Parade hotels.
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Thanks for your responses. they are much appreciated.
Rhuddlan
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The arch was erected around 1855 by Thomas Owen who also built the St Georges Hotel and was the Back North Parade until 1910. Stabling predominated and this marvellous architectural flourish was intended to evoke the classical grandeur of gentry coach houses.
I believe that a lorry or something hit the arch and it then had to be demolished.
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I believe that a lorry or something hit the arch and it then had to be demolished.
Would be nice if the Arch could be rebuilt.
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Further to my posts from 2014, I'm still looking for personal accounts from families who ran hotels before/during WW2 and whose properties were requisitioned by the Department of Works for the Inland Revenue. I've trawled the newspapers of the time (Llandudno Advertiser, North Wales Weekly News, and the Inland Revenue magazine, Ormescliffe Gazette) in the British Library, but most elusive is practical detail on what happened to hoteliers who were turfed out of their businesses for the duration - where did they go when given often only hours' notice to quit the premises? How did they make a living in the meantime? I have found reference in the Flintshire Archives to a hotelier "Mrs Lazar", who had expressed concerns to landlords Mostyn Estates re payment of insurance premiums on requisitioned properties and imagine this might be the mother or other relative of Vicki Lazar, who later became a town councillor? Any direct local or family info on this subject would be most welcome. Thank you.
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My father told me that their hotel, The Wavecrest was requisitioned in the war. They had to leave as you say in a hurry. When they got the hotel back after the war it was in a hell of a state. They weren’t paid any money at all. Luckily, my grandfather was lucky enough to have investments in other properties around the town.
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And here's an advert from 1925 for the Jesmond Hotel:
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Hello everyone
I'm not sure if it qualifies as "Early Hotel", but I have the vaguest memories of the Queens Hotel, Old Colwyn, and my parents saying that they had attended social events there.
I can find references to the place still being open at the end of 1980, but nothing since. The building is now a care home.
Does anyone know when it closed, and does anyone have any memories of what it was like inside.
Very grateful if someone has any memories or information.
Take care
TL
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My parents booked there in the late 50s and refused to stay as it was so grim and grubby!
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Thanks Nemesis
I hope that it improved after that!
Regards
TL
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John Lawson-Reay: Time to celebrate the Tudno (sorry Hugo)
https://www.inyourarea.co.uk/news/john-lawson-reay-time-to-celebrate-the-tudno/ (https://www.inyourarea.co.uk/news/john-lawson-reay-time-to-celebrate-the-tudno/)
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It's a beautiful building and a credit to the designers and the people who helped to rebuild the hotel'.
John Lawson Reay praised Greg and Edward Hiller for this building but the applicant making the proposal for the rebuild was Opus North (Llandudno) Ltd so I wonder who actually paid for the rebuild? Was it the property company or did Mostyn Estates break the habit of a lifetime and pay for the building?
Either way it is now a lovely asset to the town
By the way the property was originally two hotels, the Castle Hotel and the Temperance Hotel which was on the right hand side of the photo and it was run at one time by my G Grandfather
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There doesn't seem to be any activity at the site for a few weeks. I thought there would have been much fitting out to be done and then deliveries of furniture etc.
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I wonder who actually paid for the rebuild? Was it the property company or did Mostyn Estates break the habit of a lifetime and pay for the building?
I think you must have forgotten the rebuilding of the Embassy Building (Ex Bartons) in St Georges Place Hugo, at over £3M, Mostyn's will never recoup the rebuilding costs.
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I wonder who actually paid for the rebuild? Was it the property company or did Mostyn Estates break the habit of a lifetime and pay for the building?
I think you must have forgotten the rebuilding of the Embassy Building (Ex Bartons) in St Georges Place Hugo, at over £3M, Mostyn's will never recoup the rebuilding costs.
I think that the Embassy case was one where they simply had to pay for the foundation work etc as no one would be interested in leasing an unsafe building. I bet it upset the Estate having to do that.
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Talking of Mostyns est Hugo, will the royal hotel ever get done it's as if they get a bit of cash and do a bit more, they are doing the Ambassador and I heard Williams ( son) will be going back in, as for the Embassy as you say they had to spend on it as one of the floors had collapsed, mind you I've heard something about Mostyn est, Another thing I noticed a lot of cars clamped in Llandudno & rhos yesterday.
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A clamped car opposite us was there for 5 or 6 days. I had the feeling that once freed whoever drove away with the huge yellow label obscuring the wind screen.
As for the Royal, it gets worse rather than better !
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The amazing history of the Llandudno hotel where emperors and prime ministers have spent the night
Historic figures including Winston Churchill, Napoleon III and Otto von Bismarck have stayed there
One of North Wales' first hotels has a fascinating history.
The roll call of famous guests at the St George's Hotel in Llandudno includes Winston Churchill, Margaret Thatcher, the French Emperor Napoleon III and Otto von Bismarck. Churchill even caused a minor incident when he booked a room there.
READ MORE: Llandudno seafront hotel appoints new head for first time in 25 years
Now everyone can read about the St George's Hotel in Llandudno - and many other historic people and sites - on the historypoints.org website.
It features many intriguing anecdotes and snippets about politicians, royalty and others who have visited our region over the years.
As for the St George's Hotel, historian John Lawson-Reay says on the HistoryPoints website: "Opened in 1854, it was the first modern building to be erected on the promenade at Llandudno.
"It was built by Isaiah and Anne Jane Davies. He was an astute young man, born c.1830 at a farm on the Little Orme.
"His father-in-law owned the King’s Head pub, which the couple inherited. Anne Jane later bought and rebuilt Plas Fron Deg in Church Walks.
cont https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/amazing-history-llandudno-hotel-emperors-22381235 (https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/amazing-history-llandudno-hotel-emperors-22381235)
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MEMORIES
Celebrating hotels in the seaside resort of Llandudno
THIS week?s Nostalgia looks back at the hotel industry of Llandudno, and some of the hotels that are no longer with us.
Llandudno, the largest seaside resort in Wales, was largely developed as a holiday destination in the 1800s, which led to the rapid growth of the place in its grid-like Victorian architecture.
The Dorchester Hotel, a staple of the Parade, is now a luxury apartment complex, while the Old Abbey Hotel became railway convalescence homes, and later a maternity ward.
Other hotels such as the White Heather Hotel and the Osborne House Hotel are still in operation, working to meet the demands of the year-round interest in the town.
Photo gallery ... https://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/20620154.celebrating-hotels-seaside-resort-llandudno/?ref=rss&IYA-reg=49560bcd-5a9c-47f0-8fc5-ba2e71710589
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