Three Towns Forum
The Local => Genealogy & Research => Topic started by: anneelaine on April 17, 2013, 12:39:28 am
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Hi Anyone know about the Rogerson from Pensarn farm from about 1906 or there about llangystenin William Bell Rogerson.
Who had the farm in around 1968? I know we went there in 1968 but was told it was my dad cousins farm but looking it up it looks like my dads brother its all mixed up any help please
Anyone know any think about the Rogerson from llangstenin
Thanks Anneelaine
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HI Just been told today that the Davies had a few farms one was pensarn farm a round Llangystenin Anne Jane Davies married William Bell Rogerson 1917.after this her family would have nothing to do with her at all,
her family had a big white house I think they said by the black cat I think this was a pub as the road went up the hill to llangystenin on the way to pensarn farm
Her sister Elizabeth Lewis nee Davies lived in the church cottage in conway
any help please Anneelaine
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Hello i am getting more mixed up just found the davies in Trwfriw @ rectory cottage :roll: do not know what's going on
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Hi, There is only one Rogerson listed in the 1929 directory, G.T. Rogerson Corn Miller and Grocer, Mill Stores, Gyffin Road Conwy.
In the 1969 Directory there are several Davieses listed as Farmers,but no listing for Pensarn Farm. I will have another look through the Street listings in each.
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This is a bit of a puzzle. A "big white house" near Black Cat roundabout could possibly be Bryn Eisteddfod. but it was never a pub and the road it is on does not lead to Llangwstennin (in the uphill direction) also it is in the old parish of Llansantffraid Glan Conway (now community of Llansanffraid Glan Conwy).
There is the old family of Davies at Marl Farm, possibly there is some connection ?
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1969 - Farms/Farmers with the name Davies:
Farms and Riding Stables:
Robert Davies Penlan Farm Glanwydden,
T Davies Fron Farm, Bryn Pydew,
T Davies Marl Farm, Llan Jct.
Farmers
D. Davies Maes Cadwgan Farm Conwy
D Davies Penlan Farm Glanwydden
T Davies, Bryn Euryn Farm Rhos-on-Sea
Pensarn Farm doesn't appear to be listed, but I've not yet looked in the Street listings
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This my Aunt in the 1911 also about William Bell Rogerson
My Dad was born in the same place in 1918 only thing not the same was new wife Mary Rogerson passed away in 1917 and Wlliam Bell married Jane Anne Davies in 1917
Street Address: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conway
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 4
Estimated Marriage Year: 1907
Occupation: Farmer
Registration district: Conway
Registration District Number: 632
Sub-registration district: Llandudno
Name: Hannah Rogerson Age in 1911: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1909
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Llangystenin, Carnarvon, Wales
Civil parish: Llangwstenin
County/Island: Caernarvonshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conway
Occupation: School
Registration district: Conway
Registration District Number: 632
Sub-registration district: Llandudno
ED, institution, or vessel: 08
Household schedule number: 160
Piece: 34543
Household Members:
Name Age
William Hill Rogerson 32
Mary Rogerson 30
Edith May Rogerson 4
Hannah Mary Rogerson 2
Wm Bell Rogerson 1
But no one can find the Farm THANKS FOR LOOKING FOR ME
Anneelaine
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Cambrain
Thanks for that going to take a look see if i can remember it
A
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cambrian HI
Have been looking at what you were saying! and I have looked at the map and felt i been there walked it with my dad its a caravan park now And a Mr O Davies runs it
I have just found a phone number for the park
I think i will give them a call I hope its the same family.
( Maybe)
they will now about pensarn farm .
Thanks Anneelaine
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Llangystenin is a small village near Colwyn Bay but it also the name of a large Parish in the area. In the Parish are a nimber of small villages and hamlets and Pensarn is in the area described by Cambrian.
I would imagine that the farm is or was in that area and the Conwy Archives in Llandudno would know the location of the farm.
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Just following Hugo's comment. The name of the parish varies - so if researching indexes it is useful to be aware of this.
Rev Robert Williams in his "Aberconwy" (1835) calls the parish "Llangystenin", but the 1843 Enclosure Act refers to it as "Llangwstenin". The 1895 Order establishing the parish council refers to it as "Llangwstennin" as does the Order which abolished the civil parish in the 1930s. The Church in Wales seems to have called it all three over the years!
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Thanks everyone for your help
Anneelaine
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I'm sure that we can trace the farm. Cambrian is very familiar with that area and I hope to see a friend on Tuesday who lives in Bryn Pydew and may well know where the farm is or was
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I had a quick look at a Francis Firth map of 1840 and although the image was fuzzy it looked like Pensarn was where the Water Board buiding is today. The Parish boundary of Llangystenin was very near there but is unrecognisable now with all the development that has gone on there since the late 1960's.
I'll try and find out more next week.
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Looking at the Street names in Llandudno Junction in 1929, there is a Pensarn - (name of street/road with Conway road written underneath) these are the addresses listed there:
Welsh Calvinistic Chapel
Chapel House
1-13 Railway Terrace
The Dependence Laundry Co.
Llangwstenyn C of E School
is this the general area identified?
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That's the area Suepp, but the Sarn (causeway) must have crossed over to the Black Cat area because it was called the Monk's Causeway ( Sarn Y Mynach)
By the Black Cat Garage is the Welsh Waterboard building and that's the area marked on the 1840 map as Pen Sarn.
Like Cambrian said that area should be in Llansanffraid not Llangystenin but the Parish boundary is a bit odd in that area.
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Mrs Davies from the farm you told me about ( now a caravan site )
I phone her up today and she said she thinks Pensarn Farm is where the Water Board is today so that's good How would i find out it was a Rogerson or Davies whose farm it was
Thanks Anne
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The Conwy Archives in Llandudno would have that information in their records.
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Thank you will give them a ring next week
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http://www.conwy.gov.uk/archives (http://www.conwy.gov.uk/archives)
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The boundary was the Denbighshire/Caernarvonshire boundary as well as the two parishes mentioned. It seems to have followed the Afon Ganol but as Hugo says its route is unclear probably because the channel of the stream has been changed over the years. I am not sure about Pensarn at the Water Board site. The first building there was an old booster station which was built on land acquired from the Bryn Eisteddfod estate just before the second world war. Two houses were built adjacent but these were demolished when the sewage works was built (this itself replaced the HQ of the Conway Valley Water Board which was only built in the early 1970s.) A look at the Llansantffraid Glan Conway tithe map would probably be helpful to pinpoint the position.
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I'm probably throwing more confusion into this but ...
Looking at a map on old-maps.co.uk - the Glan Conwy Corner (Black Cat) area in 1914-1916 had a building known as Pen-Sarn - is it the name of the house opposite Black Cat (which has the boat yard behind it?).
The cottages alongside the railway, and opposite Richard Williams Builders, is known as Pen-sarn Cottages and is also on the map. The bridge over the railway at that point is known as Pensarn Bridge. On the old map the road from Black Cat to Pensarn Bridge is shown as Sarn Mynach.
Llandudno Junction did come under Llangwstenin area at one time, not sure where the boundary was. The eastern section of Llandudno Junction is called the Pensarn Ward in local elections.
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Thanks I am so lost Now lol but calling the house same name as farm maybe
Just been speaking to my sister and she said the were Rogerson up the Mountain and some at the bottom of the Mountain
Only because she went to see our aunt and she told her friend that this is one of the Rogerson from the top She had gone back in time to pensarn farm when she was a child so could not get much from her (Jane nee Davies) rogerson was her Aunt
Just getting bits back here and there Sorry
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DVT is quite right about the location. I think the property must have changed its name at some stage as it is I believe now called Sarn y Mynach. The parish would have been Llansantffraid Glan Conway (as it was spelt).
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I saw two friends at a coffee morning yesterday. Both are OAP's and lived in Llandudno Junction or Bryn Pydew all their lives and have never heard of Pensarn Farm or any Rogerson so I can't help there.
The one who lives in Llandudno Junction can remember Tal Sarn Farm which was situated where the Ford Garage of W R Davies is now.
I did look at the house opposite the Black Cat Garage but it isn't called Pen Sarn, at least it isn't now.
There is a Tithe map Of Llangystenin in the Conwy Archives that may shed some light on this location.
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Cannot make it out I'v lost a farm trying to think how we got there in 1968 I know we walked it with my dad and it was a long way do you think its by
St. Cystennin's church LLANGYSTENNIN because they are in the church grave yard apart from Jane Ann Rogerson
Name: William Hill Rogerson
[William Bell Rogerson]
Age in 1911: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Bangor, Carnarvon, Wales
Civil parish: Llangwstenin
County/Island: Caernarvonshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conway
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 4
Estimated Marriage Year: 1907
Occupation: Farmer
Registration district: Conway
THANKS so much for looking for me Anneelaine
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Everything points to the area where the Welsh Water building is now but as you are travelling to Glan Conwy from the Black Cat you pass the Welsh Water building and immediately afterwards on the right there is a long driveway going to a large white house that is near the Bird Reserve.
Is there any chance that this is Pen Sarn Farm? Does anyone know the name of that property which had been up for sale for a long while?
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If I'm thinking of the same house as you are talking about Hugo (the white house with a large green nissen hut in the garden?) then I don't think so as that was originally built as a tiny house for the ferryman and was extended in the 1970s and 80s to the size it is now.
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Referring to my previous post I reckon Pensarn Farm was near (opposite) the Black Cat Filling Station, as per the old map. Llangystennin (Llangwstennin) Parish could well have included that property ... found this bit of info on http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/11774 (http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/11774) ...
In 1870-72, John Marius Wilson's Imperial Gazetteer of England and Wales described Llangystennin like this:
LLANGWSTENNIN, or LLAN-CYSTENYN, a parish in Conway district, Carnarvon; on the Chester and Holyhead railway, and on the river Conway, at the isthmus of the Rhos peninsula, 3 miles ENE of Conway. Posttown, Conway, Acres, 1,314; of which 64 are water. Real property, £1,787. Pop., 674. Houses, 161. Copper ore is mined. The living is a vicarage in the diocese of St. Asaph. Value, £145. * Patron, the Bishop of St. Asaph. The church is dedicated to St. Constantine, and occupies the site of one alleged to have been founded before 330, by the Emperor Constantine. Cliarities, £16.
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If I'm thinking of the same house as you are talking about Hugo (the white house with a large green nissen hut in the garden?) then I don't think so as that was originally built as a tiny house for the ferryman and was extended in the 1970s and 80s to the size it is now.
If it wasn't that house Jack, then there is no other one near there and Pen Sarn may have been demolished. The 1840 map I saw had Pen Sarn on the western side of the old road to Glan Conwy. If it was on the eastern side of the road the farm would definitely have been in Llansanffraid and not Llangystenin.
I'm surprise that we haven't found out more about the farm by now. I wonder if Dwsi knows anything about the farm and if it was demolished in the construction of the Welsh Water building?
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Someone mentioned by name? ;D
I get back to you later on
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Someone mentioned by name? ;D
I get back to you later on
Thanks Dwsi because you know a lot about the area. $thanx$
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The house with the green nissen hut is called "Ynys Fawr" and it was refurbished and extended in the late 1970s. I am not sure a ferry operated from there. The name alludes to some of the land being technically an island as it was partly surrounded by the Afon Ganol.
As I mentioned earlier, a pumping station or booster was built on the "water board" site in the late 1930s. That building still survives - rustic looking. The Conway Valley Water Board offices were built in the same plot around 1972 but demolished to make way for the Ganol Sewage works about 12 years ago.
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The White house was there in 1947 but do not know what date it was built by the Davies family she say's she went to it and it's there now
we will try and ask some more from her but she gets mixed up at times so can only ask a bit at a time
She says it was very large white house with a huge staircase near a shop near to to the pub you go up the hill a little bit she always on about the hill? And you look out to the sea sorry about the vagueness.
Anneelaine
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I had a look at the 1911 Census and could see the Rogersons at Pensarn Farm. With the Census forms you sometimes can get a good idea of the location by flicking the pages back and forth.
With the Rogersons however, they were the last family in that particular ward so I could only establish the names of houses on one side of Pensarn Farm.
The nearest houses were Bryn Derw, The Hermitage, Waen Hyfryd and after that came the houses on Esgyryn Hill that I am familiar with.
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I have just had a look at a plan of the area when they proposed building the Hotpoint factory and there is a site called Pen Sarn with numerous buildings on it. This may be the farm because it is definitely in Llangystenin Parish
The location of it was at the Junction of Pabo Lane and Narrow Lane. Those buildings on the map are no longer there because it is now part of Richard Williams' business and that of another Builders Merchants.
Anneelaine, can you remember if the farm was very near a railway line and a bridge as this location I've mentioned is only about 50 yards away from the railway bridge?
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CEIQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.herwales.co.uk%2Fher%2Fgroups%2FGAT%2Fmedia%2FGAT_Reports%2FGATreport_398_compressed.pdf&ei=PA-NUbysBob20gXzvIHwBw&usg=AFQjCNHL8orLsB3UWryX4rbsiW6M_0h44w&sig2=s2YRX4uyyyJaPf7OpSemdg (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CEIQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.herwales.co.uk%2Fher%2Fgroups%2FGAT%2Fmedia%2FGAT_Reports%2FGATreport_398_compressed.pdf&ei=PA-NUbysBob20gXzvIHwBw&usg=AFQjCNHL8orLsB3UWryX4rbsiW6M_0h44w&sig2=s2YRX4uyyyJaPf7OpSemdg)
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Mmmm i do not think so only because it was a long walk on a lane going upwards we stop a lot but I was only young but we did come on a train we did not have a car at that time
Also when we were going to see family in conwy we would go past the mounting on the motorway my dad would say i lived right up there.
Thats the only think he would say he worked on the family farm did not have a good life there then went into the RAF as soon as he could
I have a Aunt who is 90 but if you ask her she gets upset so it a hard one thats why I wanted to find out about the family ( what was going on )
Thanks Anneelaine
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Been thinking how long would it take you to walk up to the farm from the the main bottom road
It could be the farm maybe the farmhouse was higher up so it would seem longer to get to.
Anneelaine
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Do you have any idea how far the farm was from the railway and bridge? Dwsi and Cambrian know a lot more about that area than I do but I remember vaguely the train stopping at Pabo which was a few hundred yards away but cannot remember if it was a passenger stop or not.
We can find out exactly where the farm was from the Conwy Archives but information on the family may be difficult unless anyone knows the family personally
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Hi do not know how far cannot think
I should have done this years ago when people were still alive
But will see how far i can get
I do know a lot about life for the Rogerson a very very rich family from Dublin and London but he lost all his money in 1865 wife passed away, He moved to Liverpool married my gt grandmother from Anglesey in 1872 aged 72 and moved to Anglesey. then had my grandfather in 1877, some how my grandfather got Pensarn farm some were around 1901
But nothing about the Davies side
Anneelaine
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Anneelaine, I have been thinking again about the map I posted and am nearly certain that this was Pensarn Farm. The houses fit in with the Census forms and put Pen Sarn in that location.
My only hesitation is that the Census forms do not show any houses on the other side or else I would be 100 per cent certain.
I'll try and find out for certain though.
I did have a look at earlier Census forms for 1891 and 1901 and William Rogerson was living at 2 Marl Bach which must have been near Marl Farm, the Davies' home
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O right Thats great
Thank you Anneelaine
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This photo maybe the cottage
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That's a nice photo Anneelaine and it looks quite old. I had an e-mail from an elderly Junction man and he thought that Pensarn was the oldest property in that area and thought that it had some connection to a house opposite the Black Cat Garage but didn't know what the connection was. He had not heard of the Rogerson family though.
If I can get to the Archives soon then I'll have a look around there for any information.
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Hi Hugo Thank you
Could that be the Davies house? William Rogerson wife and the house we are looking for
Anneelaine
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Hi
Hugo
This may sound mad but i just put in black cat garage map and it went on to a map on the
B587 and there was a tree I had a photo took when I was young age 15 could not believe it, went right up the road and the was the caravan park I felt i new that farm house also i think i have sat outside the front door with a sheep with a broken back when very young
so i went and looked a round down the lane and saw a white house over looking the road could this be the house my aunt was on about.the Davies house .
Would the farm be up that lane. pensarn farm
Anneelaine
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Been thinking Marl Farm I know this farm.
Mrs Davies said she did not know anything about the Rogerson as my grandmother Jane Ann Davies was cast out of the family I've a funny feeling about it all
sounds mad I know i would think that all farms look a like around there
Anneelaine
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Hugo
The 1891 census Marl Farm, or the cottages Do you think that marl farm was the farm we were taken to
I have a feeling about the place my sister told me my Dad had said it was his cousin's farm one of the Davies
so maybe we were not taken to pensarn farm I am so lost now
but mrs Davies said she did not know anythink did not know about a Jane ann
Anneelaine
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Anneelaine, over the years our memory does play tricks with us so don't worry we are all in the same boat. There are different things to look at such as:-
Census records but they are only up to 1911
Elector Registers which are up to date but only give information on people living at that address that are eligible to vote.
Old Maps of the area.
With what you have said about Jane Ann Davies being cast out of the family makes me wonder if she was pregnant and not married as things like that happened years ago. There are ways of checking these things like Baptism and Marriage records but I've a few things on this week and don't know when I can get to the Archives but I'll go there as soon as I can.
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Hi Hugo Yes she was Pregnant there is a story but do not want to put it on the page anyway is there any way i can P.m you and tell you the story
Anneelaine
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Hello just found out from my aunt age 90 years old it took a long time
she said she says that Pensarn farm was in llandudno Junction it's gone now she saild
As far as she knows the farm belonged to her father William bell Rogerson so it must have been about 1925 to about 1928 that she lived there
But the boys from the Rogerson family still worked and lived on the farm at the time
Apart from Jane Ann and William Bell who moved out
Jane Ann stayed around there the younger children were put into a home do not no were but would say it would have been in the junction
But William Bell moved to Liverpool.
Anneelaine
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The children's home in the Junction would have been Plas Blodwel, Broad Street opposite Maelgwn School (infants and juniors). After the home closed it became an an old peoples' home, then North Wales Housing Association took it over as their Head Office which is where I work!! Occasionally we have visits from people who used to live there as children and have happy memories of the place. It is a listed building so they have a walk through and remember the good old days! Unfortunately we have no records of the days gonee by, but they will be held in Conwy County Council archives.
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Thank you hopefully we go and see a few things in the next few weeks
Anneelaine
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The area of Pensarn is in Llandudno Junction and was in the Parish of Llangystenin then, so we are all talking about the same place. A lot of the farms around this area were tenanted farms and usually owned by one of the bigger landowners in the area and I would imagine that the Rogerson's were tenant farmers.
I'll see what information if any I can find and will post anything here. If I want any more info from you Anneelaine I'll ask for it again but please don't post any contact details on the forum though.
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Ok Thank you
Anneelaine
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There's information on Blodwell Home in Chris Draper's book on Conwy Workhouse.
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The first two photos are of Marl Farm taken today, the other two were taken from where I think Pen Sarn was. If you have a think back to 1968, this view wouldn't have changed much as the road bridge over the railway is still there as well as the terrace of cottages.
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Another farm to add to the list is a Penrhos farm listed in 1929 on Conwy Road at the Junction with Glyn Marl road. Householder is named as Mrs Roberts farmer.
There is a J.R.Davies Farmer at Bryn Derw Segyrunside
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There's information on Blodwell Home in Chris Draper's book on Conwy Workhouse.
Thanks for that - will look it up!
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Hugo Thanks so much for photo's
Right been speaking to my sister and we think maybe it was not Pensarn farm we went to that day it could have gone by 1968 as we were walking for ever up a lane at L. J
She says Dad told her it was a cousin farm
So I phoned up a cousin in Australia like us he knows bits he said there were Two family farms one up the mountain The one at the Top He thinks was a Jones farm or Davies
But saying That we were told my my Aunt age about 99 years old that here comes the Rogerson from the Top farm she did not know who we were but new we were Rogersons
and one at the bottom been Pensarnr Farm was the Rogerson Farm so was told to night again
Maybe we have family still at the top farm!!That would be so good its so mixed up
Again thank you so much for photos
Anneelaine
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Anneelaine, I was talking to a friend last night and he has a lot of knowledge about the Llandudno Junction area and although he didn't know exactly where the farm was he was adamant that there was no farm there in 1968.
You must have been very young at the time but can you remember the name of the people that you stayed with and was it an ordinary house that you stayed at or was it another farm?
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Having dug about a bit more, it looks to me as if Narrow Lane was at one time called Bryn Derw Lane. Along the lane before you got to Waenfynydd was a farm called Bryn Derw Farm. In 1939 it was occupied by a John Richard Davies. This lane starts from Conway Road roughly where Pensarn Farm was.
The site at Pensarn was occupied by Bookers wholesale "cash and carry". They were there in the late 1960s.
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Hi I would think it was Davies could not tell you much as welsh was spoken all the time and I only know bits
Yes Hugo it was only a ordinary house grey and very dark 2 floors I think i may have a photo not sure if the house was on the photo maybe just me looking after the sheep
there was no wife we never saw one anyway
and my mother never came only my Dad do not know why
never told us any names just a old man and son we only went in for tea
spent all the time with my sister outside all the times
I loved going freedom
we stopped going in 1967 /68
Anneelaine
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Hugo
We came on a train to Junction from Chester and then walked up to the farm never stayed over
Anneelaine
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Hugo
It look like ordinary detached house very Gray stone
It was a very old scary main house not as big and glamorous as you see the ones now
this how I saw it as a child.
Thanks
Anneelaine
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St. Cystennin's church Bryn Pydew I will try and give them a ring? I think.
Do you think they would know what farms most of the family came from? Apart from pensarn we know about
Do you think they would keep old books there ?
There are about 5 of them in the graveyard .
Been thinking William Rogerson first wife she was called Mary Jones they were at the farm pensarn in 1911
after her death in 1917 he married Jane and took her to the same farm maybe the farm was connected to Mary Jones side of the family
Anneelaine
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Sorry only one more thing
I think what made me think it could be a Jones was that when I phoned my cousin in Australia last night he said that maybe the farm was from the Jones side I said do not think so but thinking it over maybe he was right
Anne
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Anneelaine, I'm hoping to go to the Archives in Llandudno this coming week and will have a look around the records there. I'll look first at the Burial Indexes for Llangystenin Church, they list the location of the graves and are in alphabetical order so are easy to trace.
What is also shown is the inscription on the gravestone and I'm hoping that this will give me the name of the top farm which I suspect is in the Bryn Pydew area.
I'll then have a look at some other records and see what transpires there.
You posted "She says it was very large white house with a huge staircase near a shop near to to the pub you go up the hill a little bit she always on about the hill? And you look out to the sea sorry about the vagueness"
I've one idea about that but need to check dates with someone just in case I'm wrong
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Thanks Hugo
Davies was the name for the white house my Aunt went in about 1947 or around that time
Anneelaine
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Anneelaine, I went to the Archives today and looked at a few records there. The Burial records for Llangystenin Church show 4 people in grave No C007 and the Rogersons were:-Catherine Ellen, Mary, William and William Bell. I have translated the inscription from Welsh into English for you:-
" In loving memory of Mary Rogerson dear wife of William Rogerson Pensarn Farm Llangystenin who died 27th January 1917 aged 38.
Also
Catherine Ellen dear child of the above who died 27th October 1918 aged 1 year 9 months.
Also
William Bell Rogerson who died 19th February 1940 aged 62.
There were no other Rogersons buried in Llangystenin nor in Llanrhos, the other Cemetery for that area but there were three other Rogersons buried in Llandrillo Church (Rhos on Sea) at grave No M091 and their inscriptions read as follows:-
" In loving memory of James Rogerson 1863-1952 Mary Rogerson 1863-1952 and their beloved daughter Mabel 1896-1991 the widow of Tom Smith died 1968" The inscription didn't mention where they lived though but I might be able to find out and may have more information on that big white house when I have double checked things out.
I have enclosed 3 photos of the Llangystenin graves
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I forgot to mention that Pen Sarn Farm has been demolished but was situated where I said it was on the photo of part of a map. I have confirmed this with an 1889 O/S map and also details of a parcel of land that was sold by the owner of the farm in the 1800's. It wasn't owned by the Rogerson's but must have been tenanted.
If you want to see where it was on the Google Street map go down Pabo Lane from the Railway Bridge and it was on the left just before the new A470 road crosses the lane
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Hugo Thank you so much so kind of you for the help $thanx$
You say there are 4 in the grave
First wife Mary 1917
Ellen as a baby & William!!!! did it have a date for this william ?maybe 1910 death 1985
and William Bell Rogerson 1940
the one I do not know about is William
I Think Jane Ann Rogerson his 2ad wife Grave is in St Agnes's in Conwy some were I'v been a long time ago
but forgot were about it is.
So it looks like we did not go to Pensarn farm
Were did we go Mmmmmm I think that a hard one.
all we know then it was a cousins farm some were up them hills and for all the years we believed we had been to Pen sarn farm
We have found out a lot after all my dad would not speak about his life its his birthday to day
also it was hard work with my Aunt she says it best left alone but I am going to show the boys around there in the next few weeks were there granddad lived without your help guy would not know were to start thanks to you All
Anneelaine
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Anneelaine, just thinking about it, there is a simple explanation for the grave in Llangystenin. The Archivists when they make the Burial Index list the names on the headstones and then index them alphabetically. William (Hill) Rogerson was listed as he was Mary's husband at the time of her death. However he was not buried there. Later in 1917 he married Jane Ann (or Anne Jane Davies) and providing he was still married to her he may have been buried in St Agnes' in Conwy.
The Burial Index in the Archives will tell me that.
With regard to James and Mary Rogerson it would be worth a look in the 1952 copy of the North Wales Weekly News at the Archives to see if it gives their address. ( strange that they died in the same year?)
I don't know when Pen Sarn Farm was demolished but Electoral Records may help to give a rough idea but it will involve a bit of work doing it. The address of the farm was Pen Sarn Farm Pabo Lane Llandudno Junction.
I was talking to my Llandudno Junction friends on Thursday evening and neither knew where Pen Sarn Farm was but were adamant that it wasn't there in 1968. Interestingly enough the large white house came into conversation and one of my friends worked on the house when he was young. He thought that he painted it white but did say that in the house was a beautiful large Oak staircase that he can remember well. I want to check further but I can tell you that it was there in 1968 and that it also has some connection with where Pen Sarn Farm was situated. Also it is uphill from the Black Cat Corner and slightly less so from Pen Sarn Farm itself
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Hello Hugo
William Hill Rogerson is William Bell Rogerson name wrong in the census,
Jane Ann Rogerson is by herself just phoned the graveyard grave B548
So maybe Pensarn and the white house belonged to same Family the Davies
will cheek on on the names you give me Know
Thanks
Anne
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Anneelaine, The William Rogerson listed on the headstone is the William Bell Rogerson b1879 and died 1940 so it's one and the same person.
So in the grave are 3 people and William was therefore buried with his first wife in Llangystenin and not with his second wife as I originally thought.
The big white house that had a large Oak staircase was called Park Hotel but was demolished and I believe was owned at the time by Martin Stewart who owns Richard Williams Builders Merchants and one of his yards is built on part of the site of the old Pen Sarn Farm.
Now I've no evidence to say that this is the property in question but I'm making some enquiries to find out more information and it could be just a coincidence.
Have you got those photos of the house you called at and also the photo of you by the tree when you were 15. The tree should still be there and might help to identify where you were?
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The photo are with some of my dads bits in a case with 100's off photo and slides in the attic
I well try and find them this week
My Aunt said the house she went to is still there but she gets mixed up that was 2 weeks ago
Anneelaine
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Your Aunt may well be correct and the Park Hotel may be just a coincidence and the white house is somewhere else. When you said that one family of Rogerson lived at the top and one at the bottom, my initial thought was that the top one lived in Bryn Pydew which is a small village at the top of a hill above where Pen Sarn Farm was.
But as yet we haven't established where exactly the top Rogerson family lived
At one time Bryn Pydew did have a shop, pub and a number of large white houses nearby but I don't know when the shop and pub closed. There were two pubs there, the Red Lion which was run as a pub in the 19th Century and the old Swan but I don't know when that ceased as a pub, before becoming a shop.
Any photos of property may help to trace locations and if you post on here someone may be able to recognise the house.
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Anneelaine, I've had a good look at the Census records today and apart from William's Family there are no other Rogerson's living in the Llangystenin Parish up to 1911 which is the last Census record on line.
The James Rogerson who is buried at Llandrillo comes from Lancashire, where I think William's father may have originally come from.
I don't know if you use the Census records but just in case you don't, here is what I've found:-
1881 Census
William aged 3 lived with his widowed mother Mary at Carnarvon Terrace Llangefni. Also there were Roger her son and Mary A the daughter.
1891 Census
Mary the widowed mother was living at Hendy No 2 in the Holyhead area with her son Roger. William and Mary A were not recorded and must have been living elsewhere?
I checked the English Census for 1891 and there was a William of a similar age living with a related family in Lancashire.
1901 Census
Mary the widowed mother was living a 2 Marl Bach Llandudno Junction with Mary Ann and William Bell and a niece Mary Agnes aged 9 months.
1911 Census
William Rogerson aged 32 was living at Pen Sarn Farm Llandudno Junction with his wife Mary aged 30 and Edith May, Hannah Mary and William Bell their daughters and son
Earlier on Suepp had advised you that the only Rogerson recorded in the 1929 Street index was G T Rogerson from Gyffin but I know that he also had the Conway Poultry Farm that was situated on Sychnant Pass Road Conway. His family is from Lancashire originally so is there any possibility that he was a relation of yours?
In the 1891 Census William and Mary Ann were not with their mother so I wonder where they were. Possibly in a home or with relatives in England?
I was reading one of my walking books and it referred to a building on the site of the Builders merchants in Llandudno Junction called Bron Heulog that served for many years as the Marl Private Hotel. The friends I spoke to said that the white building was called Park Hotel so I'm mixed up too. Perhaps Dwsi and Cambrian who know more about the area than me might remember the buildings.
If you're not confused already in the 1901 Census Emanuel Jones had Marl Farm and the Davies' must have run it sometime afterwards.
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Hello Hugo
First William bell my Gt Grandfather Was Born in Dublin 1798 Very rich family my Gt grandfather in 1852 till 1864 lived in Dublin And London
In around 1856 My Gt Grandfather went Bankrupt and after that his first wife death
he moved to Liverpool and meet my grandmother Mary Jones married her and moved to Bangor Anglesey in around 1870 He started a new family My grandfather William Bell was born in 1877 Bangor
William Bell first wife was Mary Jones and then Jane Anne Davies born 1890
one child of my Gt grandfather Roger Rogerson moved to Birkenhead the rest stayed around valley
So maybe the farms were the Davies or.
Also Maybe William bell was staying with his brother Roger Rogerson in Lancashire.in 1901
I think he married Mary Jones in 1907
O i see William bell mother was living 2 Marl Bach Llandudno Junction when he was at Pensarn farm Mmmmm Thinking do you think it could have been a farm from William bell mother side,
The Jones only because some off her family have moved to farms in Cornwall Jack Jones for one
I will email my cousin in Australia He may know more about my Gt grandmother side Mary Ann Jones.
Anneelaine
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Anneelaine, just some points:-
Your Great Granddad William Bell was born in 1798 and your Granddad also called William Bell was born in 1877 that would mean that your Great Granddad was aged 79 when he had his son! It must have been all that Guinness he had been drinking, I must try some myself. Z**
In the 1881 England Census, the William I looked at was staying with an Aunt and Uncle as he was listed as a nephew.
William Bell's mother was living with him at 2 Marl Bach in the Census of 1901 but I'm not sure whether Mary was alive or living at Marl Bach in the 1911 Census as I didn't check on her.
I don't think that they owned Pen Sarn Farm as I've seen a transaction sale of part of the land and I don't think a Jones or Rogerson was mentioned in the Deeds. I was slightly distracted as I met an old friend in the Archives and didn't make any notes on the sale of the land.
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Yes, Hugo. Bron Heulog was originally a large detached house in a sort of "colonial" style with verandah. It became a hotel as you say in the 1930s and by the 1950s was the home of the Central Electricity Authority (later CEGB) Wayleaves Department for the whole of the north west. It was demolished to make way for Richard Williams' depot.
There was/is a Park House on Garth Road near the old Pabo Nurseries but I do not think it was ever a hotel. Hope this helps.
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Hugo Yes your right 79 lol :o try some they say it's good for you William Bell ( grandfather) had some more kids in Liverpool loo D) but was never got Divorce from Jane in his will he left her 199 pound
Aunt and Uncle listed as a nephew was it a Rogerson his uncle ?
Hope you had a good chat with your mates it's nice to meet up with friends
anneelaine
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Hugo all I can come up with on the on the 1881 Census is Lodger Carnarvon Terrace
cannot find uncle for William Bell just a Thomas Davies do not know who he is Catherine Jones is Mary Rogerson sister
Anneelaine VV
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I'll go to the Library again and check Ancestry and the Census again and will post it here.
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Yes, Hugo. Bron Heulog was originally a large detached house in a sort of "colonial" style with verandah. It became a hotel as you say in the 1930s and by the 1950s was the home of the Central Electricity Authority (later CEGB) Wayleaves Department for the whole of the north west. It was demolished to make way for Richard Williams' depot.
There was/is a Park House on Garth Road near the old Pabo Nurseries but I do not think it was ever a hotel. Hope this helps.
Thanks very much Cambrian, my friends mentioned that Park Hotel was owned by Martin Stewart and was on the Builders yard site where Bron Heulog was but they may have got the name or location wrong so I'll e-mail them and recheck what they have said. By the way what colour was Bron Heulog?
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Thanks Hugo
The big house is on the main road from conwy to llandudno juction it set higher up over looking maybe conwy bay ruining
next to the station
Anneelaine
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Hugo - from recollection, Bron Heulog was white which made it seem even more like something from a far flung part of the Empire!
From Anneeline's last comment, I wonder if the house was in Glyn y Marl Road as there are some large properties there which overlook in the direction of the station.
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Cambrian, I may be wrong but it does sound like Bron Heulog which was on the main road but on slightly higher ground and the views from there cover the wide expanse of the Conwy River. Have you ever been inside the building?
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Anneelaine, I've just come back from the Library but I haven't found out much but here goes:-
The 1891 Wales Census
Mary and Roger living in Cerrigceinwen as previously mentioned.
Mary Ann Rogerson aged 14 was employed as a domestic servant and was living with John and Mary Jones and their 5 sons in Pentraeth, Anglesey
The 1891 England Census
William Rogerson aged 13 was working (can't read what as) but staying with Ellen Rogerson aged 41 and single and also Jane Rogerson also single and aged 30. Sorry but didn't make a note of the address.
The 1871 England Census
William Bell Rogerson aged 72 and a widower was living at 13 Wilton Street Liverpool born Dublin Ireland.
Also there were Jane Jones a visitor aged 16? who was a domestic servant born in Llangefni Anglesey
Also Mary Jones a domestic servant aged 32 born in Llangefni Wales
I didn't find anything for Jane Anne Davies in the 1911 Census mainly due to the fact that there were thousands listed and I ran out of time. I did find out that Jane Anne Davies and William Bell Rogerson's Marriage was registered in the quarter ended Jul. Aug.Sept of 1917 and as his first wife died in January of that same year, perhaps that is the reason for the fall out between Jane and the Davies family?
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Yes you are probably right Hugo. I never went in the building but from what I remember it was set back from the road and seemed to be on the top of a gradual slope which contained ornamental gardens. I may be wrong but I also think it had louvered windows as well as the verandah. It was quite an imposing building and it was regrettable when it was demolished.
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Thanks for that Hugo looks like you have found new family i did not know about
Ellen and Jane who are they lol &shake&
were do I start i thought that there was only William Bell Gt Grandfather that come from Dublin
one step forward 2 back
William Bell Rogerson aged 72 and a widower was living at 13 Wilton Street Liverpool born Dublin Ireland.
Also there were Jane Jones a visitor aged 16? who was a domestic servant born in Llangefni Anglesey
Also Mary Jones a domestic servant aged 32 born in Llangefni Wales
Jane Jones was Mary Jones sister Mary was my Gt grandfatherreason
reason for the fall out between Jane and the Davies family?
was she had my uncle in 1916 say no more
William was the farther she got cast out when they found out
Anneelaine
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:rage:Hugo been looking for hours lol What did you put in when looking for W.B 1891
I can see it being a all night'er :'( when you found Jane and Ellen Rogerson
you could have open a can off worms for me lol It's sending husband mad
Anneelaine
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Just go into the 1891 Census for England and put in William Bell Rogerson and his year of birth then hit the search button. Easy peasy but look to the right hand side and for nephew then view it. I think that it is on page 1
Good luck $good$
Don't try looking for Jane Anne Davies though as you'll be up all night
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Hugo still could not find W.B what did you say about not staying up all night :rage:
anyway
1891 Wales Census
about Jane A Davies
Name:
Jane A Davies
Age:
1
Estimated Birth Year:
abt 1890
Relation:
Daughter
Father's Name:
Owen Davies
Mother's Name:
Cathrine Davies
Gender:
Female
Where born:
Trefriw, Caernarvonshire, Wales
Civil Parish:
Trefriw
Ecclesiastical parish:
Trefriw
Town:
Trefriw
County/Island:
Caernarvonshire
Country:
Wales
Street Address:
View Image
Condition as to marriage:
View Image
Education:
View Image
Employment status:
View Image
Occupation:
View Image
Registration District:
Llanrwst
Sub-registration District:
Bettwsycoed
ED, institution, or vessel:
9
Neighbors:
View others on page
Piece:
4633
Folio:
83
Page Number:
3
Household Members:
Name
Age
Owen Davies 32
Cathrine Davies 32
Hugh Davies 8
Mary C Davies 6
Elizabeth E Davies 2
Jane A Davies
going to bed eyes closing
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Well done Anneelaine, you deserve a medal and a good night's sleep! &well&
I drove past the site of the old Pen Sarn Farm this morning and most of it has been taken over as a builders yard but there is an area of overgrown trees nearby so I must have a nosey inside sometime and see if there is any sign of the farm buildings there.
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Hi Hugo
I think I am right with the family do you know what Owen job was it says a saer?
Right names
and I heard about a family that live there
from my aunt but she did not say it was Gt grandmother
And she did say the family had money
A :o :-\ Anneelaine.
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:rage: Hugo The only one I can find for 1891 is Roger Rogerson Cannot find W.B
I Did what you said
Ancestry.co.uk This was on is it the right page
HELP
Anneelaine
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:rage: Hugo The only one I can find for 1891 is Roger Rogerson Cannot find W.B
I Did what you said
Ancestry.co.uk This was on is it the right page
HELP
Anneelaine
Another late night Anneelaine! It's quite addictive isn't it. $good$
When I went to the Library to have a look at the Census all I did was click on the Ancestry Icon, then scroll down to UK census and click on it. The brings up all the UK Census records so then click on 1891 England Census.
When that page opens put Williams full name down and his year of birth and just click the search button.
Williams name should pop up and look for nephew on the right hand of the page. Good luck
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Hi Hugo
I think I am right with the family do you know what Owen job was it says a saer?
Right names
and I heard about a family that live there
from my aunt but she did not say it was Gt grandmother
And she did say the family had money
A :o :-\ Anneelaine.
I don't know what occupation a saer was but in Welsh saer means either a wright, mason or carpenter so I'm guessing that his occupation was one of those 3 trades.
By the way have you got a house name for the Davies family as the house could still be there?
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I have found "Saer" is usually taken to mean a joiner - the root may be the English "sawyer".
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Thanks Cambrian. $good$
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HI This is the address it change names but been told this is the name of it now , Bryn Rodyn,Trefriw The stonebuilt cottage the DAVIES were at in 1901
I was also sent a photo but cannot get it on this page says to big
Anneelain
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:rage: :rage: Hugo I think I being a bit thick Still cannot fined him all it's giving me is roger
Was he in wales or England at the time 1891 lol Thanks anneelaine
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Anneelaine, he was in England and that's how I found him on the 1891 England Census. Are you looking on the 1891 Wales Census?
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http://www.iwanmwilliams.info/images/properties/LL911.bryn%20rodyn.doc.pdf (http://www.iwanmwilliams.info/images/properties/LL911.bryn%20rodyn.doc.pdf)
photo of Jane house 1901
This is the only one I can find Hugo :-[ Record
williamRogerson abt 1878 Ashton-Upon-Mersey, Cheshire, England Nephew Ashton upon Mersey, Cheshire
Anneelaine
williamRogerson abt 1878 Ashton-Upon-Mersey, Cheshire, England Nephew Ashton upon Mersey, Cheshire
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Nice House in Trefriw and I must have been passed it a few times on my walks in that area.
Although I can't see the details on here that's the one I found on the 1891 England Census
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Not the same one he was born in Cheshire :(
were did W.B go in 1891 been looking for days now lol
O and nights lol
looks a lovely house wish I could join the dots
Anneelaine
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Just recheck on William Bell as in those days they sometimes entered Parishes instead of towns. Where do you think he was born?
Sorry Anneelaine I have made a $booboo$ I can see from an earlier page that he was born in Bangor Caernarfonshire I'll try again and will double check every thing. He must be on it somewhere.
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$hands$ I will give it ago again to night thanks Hugo
Anneelaine
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Any luck Anneelaine?
William wasn't in the 1891 Wales Census and I couldn't find him in the England Census either when I tried this morning. &shake&
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Mmmm cannot think were he would be
he's got to be some were or maybe not been put on it did not think you could do that ?{}?
Anneelaine
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Hugo I been looking most off the night no luck were has he gone
*&( Good job I cannot sleep will try again tonight
Anneelaine
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I had an e-mail from my friend in Llandudno Junction and he confirmed what we already knew about the Location of Pensarn Farm. The farm was on the site of where Jewsons is now and next to it is scrub land which was part of the farm too but I couldn't see any ruins there today although there is a drop down kerb there that serves no apparent purpose now.
He also confirmed that the building described by Cambrian is the one he meant and my other friend from the Junction remembered the large staircase there and painting it too. So perhaps this is the large white house you have described. It was about 150 yards away from the farm and nearer Llandudno Junction. Sadly both buildings are no longer there.
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:D Thanks for that Hugo
\I know were to take a look when we go in a few weeks
is there anyway I could find out who was the last one to have the farm
Do your friends know who lived in the house when painting it? how long has it been pulled down :(
I would love to know were the farm was were we went as a child will never know I think now ¢¢##
As we know I think now the house and the farm could belong to the Davies
$thanx$ Hugo
anneelaine
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You've got a lot of questions there Anneelaine and I don't know if you'll find all the answers you are looking for.
In the Conwy Archives they may have some info which can tell you know who was the last one to have the farm ( rate books, electoral registers etc) but you'd need to ask them and it may take some time.
According to my friends they said that the house was owned by Martin Stewart and the house was demolished when he built his business Richard Williams Builders Ltd on that site. In actual fact Martin has another Builders merchants under the same name on part of the site of Pensarn Farm. Jewsons and another building firm are in fact all on the site of the old farm
If you have a photo of the farm, the old tree or anything else when you were at the other place it may help to identify it. The Davies family had other farms in the area as well as Marl Farm so it could be one of those
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Thanks Hugo
Will take a look a round Conwy Archives the but I will phone them first
Just one more thing about the house may sound daft, But did they have a grand piano
My Aunt would go on about this
maybe the painter would know could you fined out if it did please
If so I would think it is the right house .
$thanx$
Anneelaine
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I'll e-mail my friend and ask him about the piano or otherwise go down to the club to see the the one who painted the place all in the line of research though. Z**
Just try and have a think about where you stayed on that day in 1967/8. Was it a long way up a steep hill or not?
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Hi Hugo Pensarn farm must have been the bottom farm so I will have to try and find the top farm some how (*)
Yes the farm was a good walk
My sister said the same we think we must have walked for a few miles and it was a bit of a steep hill long lane
Do you know we still do not know how we got back to the train
I need to buy a slide thing did not know what they are called lol to put slides into it to see the photo's my dad took
in the 60/70s I can see the 2 photo at the farm in my mind but I think one just me and a tree and the other just me and sheep lol
going to try my Aunt again maybe just ask one thing at a time
$thanx$ Hugo O Yes Hugo in line of research Z**
Anneelaine
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I've sent an e-mail off to my friend regarding the white house and am awaiting a reply but I've just read a bit about the house and it says that it had a croquet lawns and tennis courts.
Does your Aunt remember whether the white house had these features?
The reason I asked you about the steep hill was because my friend mentioned two other farms in the area (apart from Marl Farm) that the Davies family owned. Both are a long way uphill from where Pensarn was and are in or near the village of Bryn Pydew.
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Anneelaine, I was in the Archives today and had a look at the burial index for St Agnes Church Conwy. Unfortunately I could see no entry for any Rogerson.
The Archives lists the names of people that have inscriptions on their headstones but Jane could still have been buried there.
Perhaps she remarried and is buried in her new name?
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Hi Hugo
I've phoned up St Agnes Church She is there The lady looked and said the same could not find her
But in the end she did she said the paper its written on is not very clear I have got the grave number she is all my herself
the guy's son from the farm we went to was very odd and scared us he was very tall had a cap on a bit funny looking
so maybe someone would know about him
I would say its his son but do not know for sure
Maybe it was William Bell Rogerson the 2nd born 1910 at Pen sarn farm death 1985
Do not know were he went cannot find him after 1911
Yes it was a long way up hill we walked ,
How many lanes are there up to the Davies farms in Bryn Pydew.
also when we would take my dad to see his brother as we were on the M55 i think it called just before we got to Llandudno junction my Dad would always say I worked right up there pointing to the Hills thinking about it now pen sarn was to low down now
how far would you say it was to walk to Bryn Pydew.
Anneelaine
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If you have the grave No, please let me have it and I'll go again to the Archives and try to trace it that way. From Pensarn there are just two possible lanes. The first being Pabo Lane that the farm was in and that leads to Pabo Hall and then onto Bryn Pydew.
The other leads up narrow Lane to Esgyrun hill and then into Pydew.
I'll let you know the mileage asap and hopefully some photos that may jog your memory.
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I've had a bit more info today. Firstly the big house in Llandudno Junction ceased to be a hotel in 1946/47 and changed the name from Marl Hotel back to Bron Heulog.
Secondly, I was having a coffee morning today with the OAP's and one person there is a Bryn Pydew born and bred person so I asked him a few questions. I had already had an e-mail that said the Davies family from Marl Farm also had two other farms in the area Esgyryn Farm and Fron Farm.
Mrs Olwen Davies lives at Fron Farm with her daughter Jane and Olwen is the second wife and widow of the Mr Davies who had Marl Farm. It sounded promising and as it was a nice day I drove up to Bryn Pydew to have a look around and take some photos.
The journey from Pensarn Farm to Bryn Pydew and back is exactly 3 miles via Narrow Lane and Esgyryn Hill but would be shorter from Pensarn Farm to Fron Farm.
I have taken some photos of both farms and will post them later in the hope that it may jog your memory
By the way, if your father said that he had worked on the hillside then that would be Bryn Pydew as we know it today.
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The first photo is of Esgyryn Farm looking up the lane and the second one is the view you get looking back down the lane. That building is no longer a farm.
The third and subsequent photos are of the long lane leading to Fron Farm from Pydew, the farm itself and the view from the farm looking in the direction of Pensarn Farm.
If you walked from Pensarn Farm via Pabo Lane, it is a narrow lane with some houses on the left but you will pass a caravan park along the way.
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Fron Farm
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Centre of Bryn Pydew
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$thanx$ Hugo
Jane Ann grave number is 548b .
Also will take photos to my sisters to night what she thinks
I am about 75% that we were going up Pabo Lane it just rings a bell
I have seen a house I think I no but not to sure and I lost it again ,will try to find it to night
Hugo I cannot thank you enough for your help
Anneelaine
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Hugo Just found out there is a Rogerson could be a Davies in the grave yard GREAT ORME - SAINT TUDNO 70% sure it Rogerson also I think its a girl I think it was my dads cousin
Anneelaine
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I'll look for both tomorrow when I go to the Archives but I've got a feeling that I've looked already in both St Tudno's and Llanrhos and not seen a Rogerson listed.
Also with regard to St Agnes' Cemetery the Graves are usually listed in Plots and given a letter to signify each plot and then a number afterwards. For example A 123.
The number you have listed 548b may be another record of the burial but won't tell you where the grave is but I won't know for certain until tomorrow.
I'll do my best to find it anyway.
If you can remember the girl's name I can look under Davies or Rogerson
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Hi have got it down as plot could be B548 if not will get back to her it could the way I right things down lol I have Irien syndrome so some times I write backwards lol
Anneelaine $thanx$
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Hi have got it down as plot could be B548 if not will get back to her it could the way I right things down lol I have Irien syndrome so some times I write backwards lol
Anneelaine $thanx$
Don't worry about it, let me look in the Archives first before you go to any trouble and I'll let you know what I've found. I'm hoping to get some photos of Pabo Lane tomorrow and see if they help.
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I went down Pabo Lane from Pensarn Farm area today and took some more photos. The first one is where the farm once stood on the left then the others follow in sequence as I went up the lane in the direction of Fron Farm.
After the Pen Sarn site and the new road bridge, little has changed and the buildings haven't altered much so I'm hoping that they seem familiar.
Follow the lane past two farms and where the lane turns to the right continue straight on, on the lane past the Caravan camp. Soon you come to Pabo Lodge and the long straight lane to the left goes to Pabo Hall. The other lane on the right leads to a public footpath that takes you up to Fron Farm. The white farm in the distance behind the post is Fron Farm.
This way is roughly about 1 mile and is more direct than the one I mentioned yesterday.
Funnily enough when I was in my car my friend from Llandudno Junction came past on his bike and I asked him if he could remember if there was a grand piano in Bron Heulog the large white house but sadly he couldn't remember.
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Pabo Lane
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Anneelaine, that Burial No was spot on but unfortunately isn't listed in their burial books as she was buried in a Municipal grave. The Archive people said that the whereabouts of her grave may be listed in any one of a few dozen Registers and that I'd have to delve a lot for it.
I'm afraid that as it's a very hot day and I'm in my shorts, I've headed for the beach and an ice cream instead. You have said that you had seen it before so you may have some idea where it is. If you are looking at the Cemetery from St Agnes Road the Municipal Cemetery is on the right.
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:laugh:You have sun your end its cold here lol and ice-cream as well lol
I can see her name on the grave stone as if it was yesterday
I well phone the girl up again as she said she was the only one in the grave
and we were going to pass on to my son
Right been looking
At bits and found a address for my Dad when he married my mum But not the farm spent hours looking and not got the address I wanted :'( its carmal chapel house Conwy* why is my dad living in a church!!! :o
I have his RAF number so maybe I can get a address when he joined before the WW2
thanks for photo's taking a long look at them all
Later to night.
Anneelaine
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Anneelaine, if you look at Jane's death notice it showed her address as Bronallt Chapel Street Conwy and Ty Capel Carmel ( Carmel Chapel House) is only a couple of doors away.
It could be that they worked in the chapel and had the Chapel House as a condition of their employment. William Bell died in 1940 aged 62 and he may have given up the tenancy of the farm by then but that's only a guess.
Just changing the subject a bit, have you got your Dad's war medals and the only reason I've mentioned that is because I haven't got my Dad's and I've recently applied for them. Someone told me about applying and it was the first I knew that you could do such a thing.
If any of the Pabo Lane photos seems familiar let me know.
There is a local paper called the North Wales Weekly News and sometimes Obituaries are recorded in the paper. It goes back many years and may record some info regarding William Bell and also Jane. The Archives have copies of these newspapers
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Hi Hugo I think William bell let the farm go in around 1926/27 because he had a new family going in Liverpool son born around 1928
never got married again stayed married to my Gran
I have a address from Jane before she was married in Llandudno but I cannot make out looks like vietinia yard on her marriage docket also two names Owen Owens and Annie Owens just found them in my dads bits& bats
I have not gone into before just keep in a gold box
looks like it says nc parish church llangystenin
My son just took me up and down both roads Narrow Lane and Pabo Lane on Google earth map its so cool
I feel more of a link to Narrow Lane do not ask me why as its all new
I sent email to my sister to take a look at the photos see what see says about the them
My dad left his medals to my older Son and my sister older child a girl had my mums Thanks
Going to take a look at the North Wales Weekly News now thanks
Anneelaine
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I'm glad that you went on google earth to see the street view. Going up Narrow Lane you come to a roundabout and go straight across it. Keep going uphill and after about 100 yards or so you turn right and go to Bryn Pydew. If you had of carried on there instead of turning right you would have seen Marl Farm on your left.
It's really good watching Google Street view, it gets you to see places.
If the North Wales Weekly News isn't online don't worry I'll have a look next week if I can.
I wonder if that address was Victoria Yard? Although I've never heard of it before there were a number of "yards" in Back Madoc Street years ago.
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Hi maybe it is Victoria Yard cannot make it out at all
going to see what I can find out this weekend maybe my husband will take me to Llandudno this weekend to look around
Have a good weekend in this lovely sun
Anneelaine
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Victoria Yard was the name of one of the yards in Back Madoc Street.
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Thanks Cambrian that's a really good find. Back Madoc Street had loads of businesses going on in the old days.
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I did have a look in the Archives in Llandudno today but couldn't find an Obituary notice in the North Wales Weekly News for either William Bell Rogerson d1940 or Jane Rogerson d 1961 sorry about that as it may have helped a bit.
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Hi Hugo I have William Bell Rogerson Obituary notice in Liverpool well it just say death in Liverpool and his money went to Jane Ann Rogerson of £199.00 and not to who he was living with
Been trying to think the last few day But I am hitting a wall lol
Got no were with my Aunt all she says now is the white house is on the main road up a bit meaning higher up then the road is that the Conwy road she say's it is still there and I am saying it gone to her
&shake&
Going to see my other Aunt in the next few weeks she is :-X so going to be hard but if I ask about her mum she may tell me some think
I hope
I now know she left pensarn farm age about 3 or 4 she cannot remember the farm only the home that they all went in.
Anneelaine
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I did try to find out more about Marl Hotel or Bron Heulog as it was also called , but had no luck in the Archives. While Bron Heulog seems to fit the bill with its large staircase there is another large white house on that main road that is still there but I don't know the history of that house.
There was an article in the paper last year about Blodwell Home but it's in the 1950's
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Hi will try and find out a bit more when I go and see her
thanks for that Hugo
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Anneelaine, I've been looking at Richard Williams Builders website and noticed that Bron Heulog or Marl Hotel was not demolished until 2004. It was demolished to make way for the heavy goods yard that it has today, so your Aunt could have been right when she thought that it was still there as it is a fairly recent demolition.
I was hoping that there would be a photo of the old hotel so you could recognise it but sadly I can't find one at present.
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Hugo that sound good ;D can I find out who had it around 1940's
thanks Anneelaine
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There was a Samuel Owens at 2 Victoria Yard Back Madoc Street in 1929
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Hugo
William bell Rogerson grave stone photo what do's it say at the bottom on the grave after the William bell cannot make it out Thanks
Anneelaine
Ps just looking again and I think it's the date it's got his age 62
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It's written in Welsh and says "Fu farw Chwefror 19 1940 yn 62 mywydd oed"
which in English means " he died February 19th 1940 aged 62"
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The first photo is of Carmel Chapel in Chapel Street Conwy, the second of Bron Allt ( house on left) The third is of Ty Capel or Chapel House with the bit on the left being the Chapel walls.
The final one is of all the properties just to show you how close they all are,
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Thanks Hugo JUST hoping there was a Hint any hint lol
$cool$
Is the little house the one my dad would have lived in with his address been the church
Thanks
Anneelaine
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Hugo
If I went and asked at the church would they have any info about the caretakers there in the past I know my Dads Mum & Aunt
who lived there his Aunt was married and there was a daughter only know her second name would have been Lewis
Anneelaine
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I don't know anything about the Chapel but the house at the end of the passage would have been Ty Capel and may have included part of the building on the right of the passage too.
I can't tell you about who to approach either but there may be some forum members who live in the Conwy area who can help.
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Thanks you one more thing on my list to do lol.
anneelaine
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:D Hi Hugo been there today a guy give me a phone number say he can remember Elizabeth Lewis nee Davies
Also said it was a farmers church
so that made sense
He did not have a lot to do with them because he was a fisherman
so on the right line now
anneelaine
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Hi Anneelaine,
Where did you go yesterday, was it to the Chapel in Conwy? If it was Conwy, then I hope that you enjoyed your time there as it was a beautiful warm day. I bet the ice cream sales made a bomb yesterday, I know that I had some when I came home from a walk.
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Yes it was the chapel in Conwy it was lovely day I had 2 ice-creams lol
I hope to go to a service there soon maybe I will find out more then
Found a new name in Jane's family Hughes
so I will keep on looking
Anneelaine
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Good luck with all your research Anneelaine and finding a new name in Jane's family Hughes. That's a good Welsh name and there are many of us about. $good$ $walesflag$
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Hi Anyone know what times Carmel church in Conwy starts it service on a Sunday Thanks
Anneelaine
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Hi Anyone know what times Carmel church in Conwy starts it service on a Sunday Thanks
Anneelaine
10am on Sundays according to the sign outside.
Carmel Chapel, Conwy (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davellandudno/206611616/#)
(Many thanks to roving photo journalist David Roberts for the photo)
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Blimey, that's an old one of mine. :laugh:
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Many thank guys for all you help lovely photo
Anneelaine $good$
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Hi Guys
Do not know if you can help with this one but i will give it a go ,
been trying now for a few weeks but cannot get anywere :rage:
Owen Davies born 1859 in Llansanffraid Glan Conwy trying to find who his father was
This is Jane Ann father
Thanks Anneelaine
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The 1861 Census should show the father's name and if no one can find the info for you, then I'll have a look in the Library next week
I don't have Ancestry on the laptop but it's free in the Library.
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Thanks Hugo I don't have Ancestry i can see things and cannot do anythink :rage:
Anneelaine
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Don't worry, mine is by trial and error too. Let's hope that there are not too many Owen Davies' b1859 in that area.
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Hi, there is one Owen Davies b 1859 Llansantffraid on the 1861 census his family are
Hugh Davies 34 Ag Lab
Catherine Davies 27
Edward Davies 9
Mary Davies 6
Hugh Davies 4
Owen Davies 2
Anne Davies 3/12
Catherine Davies 3/12
The address is (what looks like) Brynrodyn, Tre Trallwyn Caernarvonshire -
1871 a farm servant at Maesydd (?) Glan Conwy - not with his family, working as a Farm Servant at the age of 12
In 1881 at Mardir (?) farm listed as a joiner unmarried
In 1891 at Rectory Cottage Trefriw listed as a Saer (joiner) with wife and family
Owen Davies 32
Cathrine Davies 32
Hugh Davies 8
Mary C Davies 6
Elizabeth E Davies 2
Jane A Davies 1
In 1901 at Bryn Rodyn Trefriw, occupation Wheelwright
Owen Davies 42
Catherine Davies 44
Hugh Davies 18
Mary C Davies 16
Elizabeth E Davies 13
Jane A Davies 11
Gwilym I Davies 8
Gertrude Davies 5
Thomas O Davies 3
Have not found anything for 1911
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Incidentally there is a Pensarn and a Pensarn Gate listed in the same enumeration district as the Davies family in 1871
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HI Could that mean it has Somethink to do with my family :D
Thanks Anneelaine
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suepp I think that's him Thank you so much going to look into it now up all night again i think
it's southwest of Bangor $thanx$
Anneelaine
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Hi
I have been looking and asking again and it's still the big white house in the Junction and no Jane Anne Davies did not work in the house
I asked if Jane had had a child in 1910 she said no says she was a very cleaver girl and should have gone far,
only had William in 1916,
It was a family house .And my aunt had been to it many times before her marriage to my uncle in the 1940's it's a good job that she cannot remember me asking her all the time about things , (she always says the same thing .
so maybe it's Catherine Davies family ( Owen Davies wife ) Jane's mum family
that had lived in the white house,?
I do not know her maiden name her Birth abt 1859/61 in Eglwysbach, Denbighshire, Wales
so will try and look into that know
Thanks
Anneelaine
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Hi again Just found out to night the farm at the top of the mountain the farmer was call Owen Jones, And also the farm at the bottom were
Jones to
I think that farm would have been pensarn farm any help please
Anneelaine
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Hi just found out today that Pensarn farm was my grandmother Jane Anne Rogerson nee Davies brothers farm but do not know who it is yet
Hugh Davies ? maybe
Gwilym I Davies ? "
Thomas O Davies ? "
at long last I have a name "
now the hard work any help please
Anneelaine
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Hi I am back again just a few things
HUGO you said Having dug about a bit more, it looks to me as if Narrow Lane was at one time called Bryn Derw Lane. Along the lane before you got to Waenfynydd was a farm called Bryn Derw Farm. In 1939 it was occupied by a John Richard Davies. This lane starts from Conway Road roughly where Pensarn Farm was. THIS SOUNDS RIGHT But :rage:
You know all I keep feeling was we were walking for ever and as you said Pensarn farm was not that far from the Conwy road how far was the Bryne Drew Farm if you were walking? I think we got of the train at the Junction and pabo lane rings a bell But!!!so long ago
In answer to this we have been thinking at No time did we get told this was Pensarn farm!!! by my Dad but in are heads it was Mmmmm he had just said it was his cousins farm and as we had never heard about any other farm at that age the date is 1967/68 as as far as we new it was Pensarn farm I asked my sister and she said the same
Again it is Davies or Jones
so we were thinking could it have been Bryn Derw Farm
Right surname name Davies we now have 2 names Davies or Jones no Rogerson because WBR had come from Dublin in about 1874 to Wales but WBR are grandfather was born a round Bangor in 1877 but worked on that Pensarn farm and at one time lived on it. But are Auntie still says it was a Davies that had the big white house and says its still high up on the main road by that pub she told us ZXZ
she was always at the house in the 1940's But she is getting on a bit
Thanks Anneelaine
D) HUGO i was just going up the roads to see if anything rings a bell and I saw Tan Y Bryn Farm on top of the hill My uncle has a farm in Australia and he call it called Tan Y Bryn Farm!!!! he was my grandfather brother WBR he was Roger Rogerson what do you think JUST SAYING
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:D been looking at tyn- y -bryn and its 2.1 mi so would take about a hour to walk maybe thinking if the house was dark gray and very old looking without all the new bits on it
it could look like the house we went to what do you guys think D)
Anneelaine
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Anneelaine, It must be difficult for you looking for these old places especially with only your childhood memories to go on. It must be about 50 years since you were there and apart from those memories there is little for me to go on, especially as that area around Pensarn has undergone many changes and major redevelopment. A lot of the old properties have been pulled down or drastically altered over the years so they would now appear different to you.
I don't know that area around Pensarn at all otherwise I could use my local knowledge to help you but I would imagine that there are others on the forum who have that knowledge.
Just to go over things that you have mentioned already, Pensarn Farm is roughly about a mile along the main road from Llandudno Junction railway station. Now Bryn Derw Farm would have been about a 15 minute walk away uphill from Pensarn Farm but I don't even know if the farm house is still there today.
You mention Tan Y Bryn Farm but the only one I know is the one up the hill in Bryn Pydew but it must be two miles from the Pensarn Farm and I know that in 1966 it was owned by a family called Hughes. There could of course have been another farm called Tan Y Bryn in the Junction area.
You also mentioned a big white house that is still there on the main road and is near a pub but this is where I can't help you at all as I don't know the history of that area and someone who does may be able to help you.
What I have done today is to go to Llandudno Junction and taken photos of two old large white house on the main road in case they can jog your memory. There may have been a pub nearby ( within 200 yards) but I can't remember it's name.
I have also taken a photo of Bryn Heulog an old white cottage in Narrow Lane but as I've said I don't know if Bryn Derw is still there
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Anneelaine, I sent an e-mail to a friend who lives in the Junction about Bryn Derw and the Davies connection and this is his reply which I hope will help in your search:-
"Thanks for your email re Bryn Derw farm the family who lived there were Davies`s but I don't remember who the father was the son`s name was Bryn and he would be a few years older than me ,he married a girl from the West Shore her surname was Leech and they moved down to the South East to farm .
Bryn was a paratrooper when he did his national service a tough lad but a very nice man ,his mother married one of the Jolliffs and they sold the farm land for building the original farm house is still there .
I have made a few enquires re the father it seems he was Gwilym , Thomas Davies appears to be Tommy Marl ( farm ) I don't know if there is any connection family wise."
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Anneelaine, I have had another e-mail from my friend and this is his latest reply:-
"Re Bryn Derw farm I have had a word with my sister she remembers Bryn Davies attending chapel with his mother who was a widow at that time ,she later married a Mr Jolliff , she also thought that there was or is a connection between the Davies’s of Bryn Derw ,and the Davies’s of Marl Farm who I think still farm there "
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Copies of Welsh tithe maps are now available online, this might help with your search http://cynefin.archiveswales.org.uk/ (http://cynefin.archiveswales.org.uk/)
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Thanks Dwsi that may be very helpful to everyone $good$
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I drove down Narrow Lane in Llandudno Junction today and stopped to take a photo of Bryn Derw, the old Farm that Anneelaine mentioned.
Although I've seen the building many times as I've driven past I never knew what it was.
It's right on the spot where the road narrows and is now actually in the car park of the Welsh Assembly building.
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Anneelaine, I'm posting this just in case you come back to the forum. I had a very interesting chat on Friday with someone familiar with the area and the Davies family.
It is a big family and they had a few farms in the area above Pensarn Farm. Pensarn Farm I believe was also owned by the Davies family and from there, there is a public footpath going uphill but I think that you would have gone up Narrow Lane on the way to your relations house.
You would have passed Bryn Gwyn Farm on your way up and the four properties owned by the Davies are all within about 200 yards of each other and are Marl Farm, Marl Bach, Maes Glas and Segyryn Farm and on the headland you saw.
I don't think it was Marl Farm (too big) or Marl Bach which is just an old ruin and I don't think that it is Maes Glas either. It could be Segyryn Farm from the description you gave but it would be virtually unrecognisable to you now. It has been greatly extended and sympathetically modernised and is a lovely building now.
Can you remember if it had dormer windows when you went to that building you described?
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I've just had a look at the O/S maps for 1888- 1895 on the web site British History online and put Llandudno Junction in on the search.
What I found surprised me and I am no longer sure which farm Anneelaine's relatives lived in.
The Pensarn Farm I found was in the parish of Llangystennin, Caernarfonshire and was near where Richard Williams builders merchants is nowadays.
Pen Sarn in English means head or top of the causeway and there is an ancient way called Sarn Y Mynach or Monks Causeway in English and this goes from Richard Williams place to the Black Cat roundabout.
However in the old O/S map there is another property at the other end of the causeway and it was also caused Pensarn. Both names are correct because of their location but the one that was by the Black Cat Garage was in the parish of Llansanffraid and was in Denbighshire.
Because of what Anneelaine originally said I think that we have the right farm but from what someone has told me the Davies family may also have owned the other one in Denbighshire.
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Anneelaine, I took the photo of Sgyryn Farm yesterday (you can see the gable end on the right) and think that it may be the one you went to as a child. Members of the Davies family previously lived there and I was told that it was regarded as a place where the family met up.
If it's the one that you went to it would have looked different to this recent photo. The rendering on the house would have been different but on the entrance to the lane going uphill there was a large grass triangle in the middle with the lanes going either side of it. I don't know when that changed to a single lane but I can remember seeing the large glass triangle.
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My wife's mother's family (mother-in-law was a Jones) had links to some of the places mentioned on this thread - Marl Farm, Snottyn Farm (possibly later changed to Ffarm Tyddyn), Seguryn and Maes Glas, also Penbont and Pencreuddyn, plus others in the Llangwstenin area. The Jones family had a lot of children around the period 1880 to 1960, two brothers emigrated to Kansas in 1910 taking most of their kids with them, my wife's grandfather was one the eldest children and stayed here. There is a link to the Davies family at Marl Farm, as one of the Jones girls married a Davies - Tommy (Tomi Marl) Davies, mentioned earlier, being one of the offspring.
Quite a few of the family are buried in Llangwstenin churchyard.
Hopefully anneelaine is looking in and can come up with some names from that period and see if they match up. I have drawn up quite a bit of the family tree, based on information from my mother-in-law.
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Office for sale £139,500 (£116.64/sq. ft)
.Bryn Derw, 2 Narrow Lane, Llandudno Junction 1,196 sq. ft*
According to Zoopla the old farm of Bryn Derw has now come on the market and is advertised as an office.
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Anneelaine, Someone very kindly let me have a copy of this very old photo of Esgyryn Farm. I don't know the date of the photo but it is old and the Davies family are gathered outside the building. The house did not have dormers then,they must have been added later! the white part to the left was a lean-to shed where they kept their cart!
I don't know if this is the building that you went to in the 1960's but it was a place where the various Davies family met at and it did have rendering over the stonework before the present owners moved in
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Hi back on again looking
Just found this
in the 1911 Wales Census
View
Add Alternative Information
Report issue
Name:
Wm Bell Rogerson
Age in 1911:
1
Estimated birth year:
abt 1910
Relation to Head:
Son
Gender:
Male
Birth Place:
Llangystenin, Carnarvon, Wales
Civil Parish:
Llangwstenin
Search Photos:
Search for 'Llangwstenin' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island:
Caernarvonshire
Country:
Wales
Street address:
Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conway
Registration district:
Conway
Registration District Number:
632
Sub-registration district:
Llandudno
ED, institution, or vessel:
08
Household schedule number:
160
Piece:
34543
Household Members:
Name
Age
William Hill Rogerson
32
Mary Rogerson
30
Edith May Rogerson
4
Hannah Mary Rogerson
2
Wm Bell Rogerson
Thinking back
It looked like a old farm house with four old looking windows with a lot of green In front off it I can see some sheep in the garden one with a broken back
I can see a guy about 55 That was a bit odd I was only young we had tea and then took back to the station to go home Was told it was my Dad cousin
But the guy I do not know never told who it was
This guy I think was William Bell Rogerson born 1910
No one never spoke about him did not know off him
Found out he passed away in 1985 in Llandudno
The other guy on this is my grandfather age32 its not hill but bell Mary Rogerson Passed away in 1917 Then he married my Grandma also in 1917 Anne Jane Davies She had farms in her family in around the same place
But when she married William she got cut out off the will and family
Thats it THANKS Hugo for your help
Anneelaine
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Well Hugo I think its time to Give up I think Just going over and over Thank you so much for you Help my family the Rogerson would not say a word Ask my dad and he would just say No No keep away
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Thanks Anneelaine, there are some mysteries that we can't resolve and perhaps this is one of them and will have to be put to bed.
It's a shame really because there are a lot of Davies' in the Llandudno Junction area with links to a farming background. I can think of 5 farms within a radius of less than 2 miles from Pensarn Farm that have connections with the Davies family. I am also reliably informed that the Davies family members would meet at Esgyryn Farm (pictured) and I've a feeling that some forum members may be related to you but the link hasn't been established.
It would seem that there is a black secret hiding here and lots of families have them and sometimes it has been done to protect the feelings of others
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1969 - Farms/Farmers with the name Davies:
Farms and Riding Stables:
Robert Davies Penlan Farm Glanwydden,
T Davies Fron Farm, Bryn Pydew,
T Davies Marl Farm, Llan Jct.
Farmers
D. Davies Maes Cadwgan Farm Conwy
D Davies Penlan Farm Glanwydden
T Davies, Bryn Euryn Farm Rhos-on-Sea
Pensarn Farm doesn't appear to be listed, but I've not yet looked in the Street listings
Doesn’t help with the quest but just for info, it was the Rawlingson family at Fron Farm in 1969. Glyn ran the farm but I think it belonged to “Tom Marl”
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Thanks for that info squiggles but unless anything else crops up then I think that there is nothing else we can do, the only breakthrough would appear to be local knowledge.
Speaking of which, I have just had a quick and interesting phone call from someone who has promised to phone me back some time. He has been reading your posts and may be able to fill in any missing pieces of the jigsaw. Just watch this space $good$
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:D O thank you so Much made my day
Anneelaine
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Hi
Just thinking Maybe it was William Bell First wife family farm, Mary Rogerson got a feeling her maiden name was Davies will try to find out.
Then after her death
William married again the farm was taken from him and he
became just a worker on this farm and he worked here till around after 1926
when he left his wife
and the family was put into a home
-
right
No her name was Mary Jones his second wife was Davies $good$
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Squiggles, the person hasn't phoned me back yet but he has been reading the thread on the old Swan and can contribute to that so I'll post anything I get to know in that topic
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Squiggles, the person hasn't phoned me back yet but he has been reading the thread on the old Swan and can contribute to that so I'll post anything I get to know in that topic
Thanks Hugo. I'll look forward to that.
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Hugo ,
Do you know why I can look for old deeds on farms
In or a round Llandudno Please.
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Anneelaine, I'm sorry but I've no idea what you should be looking for or where you can find them
Cambrian has experience of that so perhaps he can point you in the right direction
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Looking for deeds can be a bit hit and miss. Now that most land is being recorded via the Land Registry, once an entry has been made traditional deeds are no longer so important. Occasionally, Solicitors will deposit material with the Archives or National Library. In amongst these collections you may find old epitomes of title which record all the changes of ownership down the ages. Sometimes deeds of property which has been registered can be found also old leases and mortgages which can provide useful clues.
It may be possible to access the Land Registry itself but I am not sure I copies of original documents are available. Best to check on the Land Registry website.
Many of the farms on the Creuddyn peninsula were on Mostyn land so records of tenancies may be available at the various County Archives is the estate had deposited material. Most early Mostyn records are in the Flintshire Archives at Hawarden.
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Thank you for that Cambrian Will see what I can find out on Mon D)
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Hi
Found out a bit more tonight
Looks like the son off William bell Was not living on the farm in 1968
So now who was the other guy on the farm that day
Never NO I think
Anyway William Bell in 1939 was living in Llandudno UD
with a Owen Owen so that would be my great grandmother daughters husband
Thanks
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Hi .
Just been looking around and with some of the things you all said
I found a postcode LL28 5LE and it just across the road from the Black cat that I was going on about could not believe it
I feel I know the place
was this where pensarn Farm was Mmmm I got a feeling but yet again could be wrong. :o
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Just one more thing by the Black cat is a large white house could this be the house my aunt was on about
She kept saying its by the black cat
it just goes with the Rogerson at the top farm and the others at the bottom Just thinking Thanks guys
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Anneelaine, you could be on to something here and may have solved it yourself. Like any research you do need positive proof and it has been difficult to get that.
However, if I could just explain this first so you can be aware of what has happened already:-
From the Black Cat area to Llandudno Junction (over the Railway Bridge) was called the Monk's Causeway and the area in Llandudno Junction is known as Pensarn
In English Pensarn is the top or head of the causeway. I've found Pensarn Farm on the Llandudno Junction side and we know that it was in the Parish of Llangystennin however today I've looked at a map of the 1880's and it also shows a Pensarn Farm on the Black Cat side of the causeway and this could be the one you are seeking.
Was that farm in Llangystennin Parish? At present I'm not positive but perhaps someone on here can tell us one way or
another.
Anyway, I've been to have a look in that area and the first building on the right going up the hill is a very old building, it has other smaller buildings in the yard but is completely private and shielded from the public view. There is no name on the building, no front door, just a large wooden gate and protected by one or two noisy guard dogs so I kept well away.
I've taken some photos for you but there may be other forum members who may be able to put some name or history to the place. Further up the hill is a large white house called Castle Keep and next too it on the main road is another property with a number of stone steps going up to it.
I've just had a look at the postcode you have supplied LL28 5LE and there are just 3 properties coming up for that and they are Castle Keep, Maes Glas and Sarn Y Mynach . I'm thinking that the house on the corner with the ivy on it is called Sarn Y Mynach but that's just my guess.
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I've gone on Google and found the proof of the Pensarn Farm by the Black Cat Roundabout and this is an extract from the article:-
Afon Ganol : Glan Conwy & Sarn-y-Mynach
In Norman Tucker’s book, he commented that the antiquarian John Leland,
writing in Henry VIII’s time, wrote about the Credine [Creuddyn]…
.Credine-a commote of Cairarvonshire a this side Conwey River. This commote
partely be Conwey River partely by the se is yn a manner as innsulatid,and one
way owte of Denbigh land the way is over a made causeway over a marsh often
overflown’7
.
This reference to a causeway suggests that Leland was referring to the Sarn-yMynach
(Monk’s causeway) ….which would be from Pen Sarn (farm opposite
Black Cat filling station) across to Pen Sarn & Tal y Sarn in Llandudno Junction.
The name Sarn-y- Mynach is thought to refer to a causeway that the monks had
built across the marshes of the Afon Ganol valley,
This is a very interesting link from the Deganwy History Group
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj4-dzyhfXWAhVFXhoKHfKEB74QFggmMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.deganwyhistory.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F05%2FAfon-ganol.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2BtYoOBlv1mZ3z3WJUAjdg (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj4-dzyhfXWAhVFXhoKHfKEB74QFggmMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.deganwyhistory.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F05%2FAfon-ganol.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2BtYoOBlv1mZ3z3WJUAjdg)
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Pensarn Farm (later called Sarn y Mynach) has always been in the parish of Llansantffraid Glan Conwy on the Denbighshire side of the Afon Ganol.
I am not sure when the name was changed.
As an aside, Llandudno UDC built a booster station adjacent to Colwyn Bay Council's sub-station in 1938. This was a "modern" looking building alongside the old Conway Road (now part of the A55 approach works) and was demolished about 20 years ago. It was known as Sarn y Mynach Pumping Station.
The large white house could well be Bryn Eisteddfod which overlooks the area.
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Was that brown brick building the old pumping station? If it was then I remember trains stopping there in the 50's
Bryn Eisteddfod looks like a very impressive place and if it was licensed in Annieelaine's early years then this might be the place where the older folk went up the hill for a drink
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Anneelaine, just an add on to my previous posts, I did manage a peep through the high wooden gate before those dogs frightened the life out of me. There are two other buildings in the yard but the one that interested me was the one on the left of the big house, it's a single storey small cottage with one window and a door at the far end.
The gable end of that cottage is facing the road.
If you look at my third photo and see a cream coloured wall, the cottage is behind that wall and faces the bigger two storey cottage.
What made me interested in it was because it was very similar to the photo you posted on page 3 this search.
Is this the cottage, I wonder? ?{}?
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No, Hugo. The brown building was a Ministry of Food buffer depot built around 1942. I have a vague memory of seeing railway vans in the sidings there in the 1950s as well. I also believe a platoon of US soldiers was stationed there in the huts to guard the place during the war.
The pumping station was quite a smart single story flat-roofed building about the length of a pair of semis. I heard that the concrete base fractured during piling works to build the flyover (A55) and a decision was taken to demolish it. The door, which faced Pensarn, had the prominent wording "Llandudno UDC Waterworks" carved in concrete above.
Regarding Bryn Eisteddfod, I think you have seen a coachman's cottage. I don't recall ever hearing it was licensed as pub though.
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Thanks Cambrian for that info about the Ministry of Food depot, my next door neighbour worked there and I definitely remember the train I was on, stopping there sometime in the 1950's.
I don't know much about Bryn Eisteddfod other than what I read today and it mentioned a license but I don't know when the license was granted.
That house is strange though, there was a car in the yard but there was no entry into the place apart from past those guard dogs and I was not going to chance it
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;DHi
The black cat roundabout the road going up to Bryn y Mean may sound daft but I can see my Dad walking up the road here and the house as you are just going up I know it
but it looks bigger and I have been inside but do not know why
The cottage you may be right :o Thank you all
could not have found out so much without you guys it means
so much to me
Now find out who was the owner of the farm
in 1968
Anneelaine
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This is an aerial photo of how Pensarn Farm looks like now. The main building is the first one and then there is an opening but it's the second building on the main road that caught my attention. It's very similar to the one in the photo on pg 3 of this topic
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Here is a pic of my 1947 OS map. Pensarn is shown on the LL J side as is the Llan of LLangwstenin .
I don't know if this helps at all!
Sadly this is another example of why I don't post often! All my pics seem to change position. Perhaps
a moderator can adjust it the correct way and maybe explain why. It seems at least one other contributor has the same problem.
Incidentally the pic was taken on an android phone.
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Sadly this is another example of why I don't post often! All my pics seem to change position. Perhaps
a moderator can adjust it the correct way and maybe explain why. It seems at least one other contributor has the same problem.
Incidentally the pic was taken on an android phone.
In my humble opinion, I think that your picture postings are just due to jetlag. Too many foreign holidays and you'll miss another walk again when you jet off soon. ;D
I'm sure though that Ian or Dave will work their magic on the photo for you.
The area from the Black Cat roundabout to the spot where Richard Williams Builders Merchants in Llandudno Junction is, was called the Monks Causeway. At either end of the causeway were two farms and they were both called Pensarn Farm and that is where the problem arises.
The one by Richard Williams was in the Parish of Llangystennin but the one at the other end of the causeway wasn't. From what Anneelaine has said though it might be the one by the Black Cat roundabout that she has the childhood memories of.
I think that it could be that too and may go back there to take a photo of the place. I'll get Tellytubby to act as a decoy and let the guard dogs chase him while I take photos of the other buildings. 8)
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Looking again at the photo and thinking about it I think you could be right because the girl Hannah looks about the age that everyone was still at pensarn farm ,and the little one looks like my dad at that time all lived at the farm
.If it was my Dads cousin in 1968 I would think the name could be Davies just came to me , cannot think it would be Rogerson or Owen maybe wrong
All Left the farm a round 1928 when William Rogerson left and went to Liverpool and the younger ones went into a home But a Aunt told us that there's 2 farms 1at the top she may be mixed up
Thanks for photos enjoy looking at them $good$
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Anneelaine, The Davies' were a well known farming family and either owned or tenanted a number of farms in that area.
A lot were on the Llandudno Junction side of the railway and also some on the other side.
I haven't got the answers you are looking for but I've enclosed two photos for you and also to show my fellow walking friend Rhuddlan the location of the two Pensarn Farms.
These were taken of an O/S map from the late 1880's to the early 1890's
The first is a photo of the map and in the second photo I have ringed in red the two farms. Only the farm by the Black Cat now remains.
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:o 2 farms one at the top the other bottom well well I thing we may have done it
So with the name Davies I need to look for a child thank you so much
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Hugo cannot fined the name of the road where the farm was near the black cat $thanx$
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Hugo cannot fined the name of the road where the farm was near the black cat $thanx$
Look at the map with the two farms circled in red and concentrate on the bottom one.
The road to the right is the main road and it goes up to the second farm at the top. This is Conway Road the A547
To the left of the bottom farm is the A470 and that was also called Conway Road.
From the bottom farm you can see a lane going down in the picture and that is the B5381 which locals call the Bryn Y Maen Road. That is actually the narrow lane going uphill to the big white house which is called Bryn Eisteddfod
Hope that you can make some sense out of all that
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Thanks for that, $thanx$
seeing what I have got to do next now
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Anneelaine, I have just received an e-mail from a friend who lives in Llandudno Junction and this is what he has told me, Hope that it may help with your search
"I have obtained some information for you re Pensarn Farm ( sarn y mynach ) .
The lady that lived there from1940`s until her death in about 1970 `s not certain about this date was a Mary Davies ,I have no further details other than the name and she was unmarried , again I cant confirm this ."
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Mary Davies rings a bell Thanks for that Looking into it today
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Hello
I have been looking around and found this The last time we saw Mary Davies was in June 1968
PRINT SOURCE BOX SHARE
Attach to Family Tree
Mary Davies
BillionGraves Index
Name
Mary Davies
Event T
Death Date
1968
ype
Burial
Event Place
Conwy, Conwy, Wales, United Kingdom
Cemetery
Saint Tudno Church Cemetery Llandudno
1968 was the last time we ever went up to the farm
Anneelaine
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My Gran was Jane Anne Davies Born in 1890 In Bryn Rodyn, Trefriw, Conwy, LL27 0NJ and it's up for sale
See what I can find out now
To join up with Mary Davies I now she was a cousin
-
can anyone make this out please can read part of it
-
sorry got this wrong I have now read it not the right grave but names and right age
also
but the mary in this grave has a son with her age 15 O well a long night again
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That won't be your Mary as the address is also wrong too.
I had a look at billion dollar graves for Mary Davies and saw where the grave was indicated in the Cemetery but I'm afraid that the indication is wrong as I had a look at the spot today.
In the same row at the end, is a grave for a Mary Davies and other family members but although that Mary died in 1968 there is no proof that she is your relative. Another puzzle is why would Mary be buried in St Tudno's and not Llanrhos or Glan Conwy?
I had a look in Roots UK and there was a Mary Jones who died in 1968 and the death was registered in the Conwy District in the quarter Apr to June 1968
Just one point though, we don't know for certain when your Mary died as my friend wasn't sure
-
Hi thank you
I know now I need to come to Llandudno next week to do some digging
My Gran is in St Agnes Conwy by herself that is so sad Granddad is in
llangystenin with his first wife
I know what I have to do I am at 3 am just looking for something need to do it put it to bed
Thank you all
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Hugo,
My Dad did have a cousin in (Davies)
St Tudno's He told me a few times
But he never said who it was and cannot think what year it was
was it before 1968 !!! I never know
Hugo Thank you so much for photos
Anneelaine
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Anneelaine, we have a photo of the headstone of a Mary Davies who died in 1968 and I did find a death of a Mary Davies registered in Conwy in the quarter April to June 1968 but we know nothing about this person at present.
However, there is a possibility that I can find out who she was providing there was an obituary notice in a 1968 edition of the North Wales Weekly News.
At present I'm extremely busy with work going on at home and don't know when I can get to the Archives next but I will try asap.
-
Hugo,
its fine
anytime been doing this forever it feels
Anneelaine
-
Hi
Just looked at the photo of me on the way to the farm
as we are moving house and found the photo box
I think its more like 1966 or 67
I changed after that and cannot see me going with my mum and dad to the farm only look young
Just had1968 in my mind
-
I looked at the North Wales Weekly News for 1968 but could not find an obituary notice for a Mary Davies so she is still a mystery. Something may turn up from my friend in the Junction but at the moment things look like they have come to a halt.
-
Hi,
Thank you.
Mary Davies, I have just been told is in Llangysternin Churchyard the same place as my grandad But!!
Also, the other Farm may Have been Tan Y Bryn
My cousin named his farm in Australia The same name (Tan Y Bryn)
his Dad Gordon Rogerson,
His father was Roger Rogerson, Lived
in Llangysternin Brother to my William Bell Rogerson
I know a lot of farms are called this Been told a few are in Llangysternin.
Thanks
Anneelaine
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It makes sense that Mary Davies from Sarn Y Mynach was buried in Llangystennin Church as she obviously had family connections with that Parish.
If she had a grave with a headstone then her grave in Llangystennin would be on the Burial Index at the Archives.
As regards Tan Y Bryn, there are two that I know of in Pydew, one is near St Catherine's Church and the other further down Bryn Pydew Road but on the opposite side of the road.
As I've said on here before a family called Hughes lived in one of them in the 1960's but I don't know who lived in the other. Both are a very long walk away from Llandudno Junction railway station and would have taken you ages to walk there and back as a young child so we'll never know for certain where exactly you visited on that one day.
-
Hello,
No the farm we went to was Pensarn. for sure
Thanks Hugo
-
That's good Anneelaine, Tan Y Bryn is quite far from Pensarn Farm too. I don't know if those little legs of yours would have made it to Tan Y Bryn.
I took a photo of your Granddad's grave (see photo) but at the time didn't know about Mary Davies but I'll follow that up and post it on here. The grave looks well maintained so someone must be looking after it
-
Tan Y Bryn in Bryn Pydew is up for sale. Is that the one or not, we'll have to find out
http://smithandwypler.co.uk/property-details/26259500 (http://smithandwypler.co.uk/property-details/26259500)
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I had an e-mail from my friend last night and he said that the lady living at Sarn Y Mynach was Maria Davies and not Mary Davies as first thought.
He is still trying to get more info but said that it will take time.
-
The name Maria Davies should be a lot easier to trace than Mary Davies so I tried Roots UK and only one came up that fits the bill. That Maria was born1892 and her death was registered in the St Asaph District in the quarter Jul- Sept 1967. I wonder if this is the same person?
Cambrian, you're the expert on these type of things and I remember from previous posts that deaths in Glan Conwy were registered in Conwy District many years ago.
There have been changes since but in 1967 would deaths in the Black Cat roundabout area be registered in St Asap?
-
Maria.who I have never heard about
Has got to be some relation
The old lady on the farm was my dads his cousin So its got to be her
but where from
it must have been the last time we went up to the farm may 1967.
-
I'll see what I can find in the Archives but it won't be before next week
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I'm sorry but I haven't been able to find out any more about Maria.
Some time ago you posted that a Mr Rogerson's wife was called Davies prior to getting married but that she was not in touch with that side of the family but didn't know the reason for it
I was browsing through the Conwy Archives online catalogue and saw this article and thought that you might like to see it
Cyfernod / Ref No CPS1/2/3/48/35
Teitl / Title Defendant: Mary Ann Rogerson
Ddisgrifiad / Description Mary Ann Rogerson of M[arle]bach, near Conway.
Charged with Breaking and Entering the dwelling house of John Davies and stealing one pound in weight of mutton belonging to him.
Witness statements from John Davies of M[arle]bach, a working Gardener; Evan Roberts, a Police Constable at Tywyn; John Davies of Deganwy, a Labourer (Son of John Davies of M[arle]bach) and Mary Ann Rogerson.
Verdict: Dismissed.
Dyddiad / Date 26/5/1902
Graddau / Extent 12
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Wow that is a good find O dear but very sad
That would be a great Aunt of mine or my great grandmother Mmmm My gt grandfather pass away after my grandfather was born and left her with nothing she was about 38 years younger than him
where had all his money gone he was a very very rich man I know he lost a lot around 1864 in London
But to come to that
Yes his wife was called Jane Anne Davies
Thank you
Anneelaine
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;D
Hi,all
May have found something or maybe not.
This is my Great grandmother Catherine Davies Nee Hughes
Name:
Cathrine Davies
Age:
47
Estimated birth year:
abt 1834
Relation:
Wife
Spouse's Name:
Hugh Davies
Gender:
Female
Where born:
Llangystenyn, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil Parish:
Llansantffraid Glan Conway - Tre Trallwyn
County/Island:
Denbighshire
Country:
Wales
Street address:
Mardir Farm
Condition as to marriage:
Married
Education:
View image
Employment status:
View image
Registration district:
Conway
Sub registration district:
Creuddyn
ED, institution, or vessel:
7
Neighbors:
View others on page
Piece:
5582
Folio:
125
Page Number:
3
Household Members:
Name
Age
Hugh Davies
53
Cathrine Davies
47
Hugh Davies
24
Owen Davies
22
Elizabeth Davies
8
Ellin Davies
6
She got married in Name:
Cathrine Davies
Age:
47
Estimated birth year:
abt 1834
Relation:
Wife
Spouse's Name:
Hugh Davies
Gender:
Female
Where born:
Llangystenyn, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil Parish:
Llansantffraid Glan Conway - Tre Trallwyn
County/Island:
Denbighshire
Country:
Wales
Street address:
Mardir Farm
Condition as to marriage:
Married
Education:
View image
Employment status:
View image
Registration district:
Conway
Sub registration district:
Creuddyn
ED, institution, or vessel:
7
Neighbors:
View others on page
Piece:
5582
Folio:
125
Page Number:
3
Household Members:
Name
Age
Hugh Davies
53
Cathrine Davies
47
Hugh Davies
24
Owen Davies
22
Elizabeth Davies
8
Ellin Davies
6
She got married in Llangystenyn,in 1851
Anneelaine
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:o ;) D)
maybe not far offffff
Name Cathrine Hughes
Event Type Census
Event Date 1851
Event Place Llangystenin, Caernarvonshire, Wales
Registration District Conway
Gender Female
Age 16
Marital Status Unmarried
Occupation Farmers Daughter Employed At Home
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Birth Year (Estimated) 1835
Birthplace Llangystenin, Carnarvonshire
Page Number 2
Registration Number HO107
Piece/Folio 2519 / 231
Affiliate Record Type
omg I am not far off I beleave
-
my grandfather but what the name of the farm lol Jane Anne Davies Grandad
S :o so happy
Owen Hughes
England and Wales Census, 1851
Name: Owen Hughes
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1851
Event Place: Llangystenin, Caernarvonshire, Wales
Registration District: Conway
Gender: Male
Age: 52
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Farmer (Of 19) Acres
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Birth Year (Estimated): 1799
Birthplace: Llangystenin, Carnarvonshire
Page Number: 2
Registration Number: HO107
Piece/Folio: 2519 / 231
Affiliate Record Type: Household
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I think i have a name it looks like HENDRE Llangystenin,?
Anneelaine
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Hi Anneelaine
Yes, Hendre is a farm at the southern end of the parish of Llangwstennin. If you follow the minor road from Pensarn in a north easterly direction you will come to it just beyond the point where the road does a sharp right hand bend.
At the time of the Enclosure Awards in 1843, Hendre was a holding of 94 acres, 3 roods and 1 perch. It was in the ownership of Thomas Peers Williams (1795 - 1875). He was the owner of the Marl Estate and lived in Anglesey.
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Hi guys please help
Grave A033
‘Yma mae’n gorwedd gorph WILLIAM, mab OWEN HUGHES o Ben y Ffordd. Bu farw … o Fawrth 1837 ei oed 21. Hefyd ANN, gwraig OWEN HUGHES Pen y Ffordd Yr hon a fu farw Ebrill 2ed 1859 yn 68 oed. Hefyd OWEN HUGHES yr hwn a fu farw Gorphenaf 19eg 1872 yn 77 mlwydd oed. Hefyd ALICE, gwraig ROBERT HUGHES Pen y Ffordd Bu farw Hydref 20 1908 yn 85 mlwydd oed.
Thanks Anneelaine
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Got it it was in English lower down
Do not think its the right grave
o well keep going
Anneelaine
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$good$ Hi
Been thinking
came to me last night ,
Well how can the farm up the hill be a Rogerson no way can it be
so when my Aunt said you are the Rogerson from up the hill
I been told I look like my Grandmother (my Aunt she was in her 90's at the time )
so when she saw me maybe she saw Jane Ann Rogerson nee Davies came to her mind
Gordon Rogerson William B bother was in Australia and Roger was in Liverpool
So the farms I would think would be Davies or Hughes because only WB was in Conwy apart from his sister who never married and his mother Mary Rogerson
Apart from the farm WB had Pensarn farm around 1907 to about 1928
need to rethink now
Anneelaine
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I was looking through the Llandudno Wedding Banns at the Archives ( ref CEP 17/1/15 1894 TO 1934 ) and came across this entry which I thought that you might like to see:-
No 166 (Welsh)
William Rogerson in the Parish of Llangystenin Widower
Jane Anne Davies in Llandudno Parish spinster
1st Bann 22/7/ 1917
2nd " 29/7/191
3rd " 5/8/1917-
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Hugo,
Where would I go to look up about farms in past times? in Llandudno.
would you believe it we are looking at a house to buy in Conwy
do not know where that came from
-
Anneelaine, I'm sorry but I can't help you about farms in past times but there may be others on the forum who can advise you., Good luck with your house hunting, it's a nice area to live in.
-
There are a few possibilities but could need a fair amount of time to research. A good place to start would be the Tithe Records which were compiled for each parish in the 19th Century. The County Archives has most of these. It would be fairly easy to identify farms and small holdings by the amount of land associated with the tenant or landowner. The Town Directories are also a source of information. Census records available up to 1911 will show the trade or calling of the head of household.
If you had a specific area in mind I am sure one or more of us on the Forum would be able to give some help or further pointers.
-
A friend sent me this link which may help. I don't know enough about this subject but Anneelaine may be looking for Tan Y Bryn and the Rogerson connection. There are two in Pydew but the name is fairly common in N Wales
https://places.library.wales/
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Thank you all for the help you have given me.
-
Hi Hugo,
I think I may have found who was on Pernsarn Farm in 1968 It had to be a Davies looking at it now my Dads cousin, not a maria but mary also my dad said about his cousin been buried Saint Tudno Church Cemetery Llandudno been looking and maybe think this could be her.
Name Mary Davies Birth Date1893 Date1968 Cemetery NameSaint Tudno Church Cemetery Llandudno I need to do a little more digging I think
-
Forget what I just said please the rest of names wrong on the grave
-
Hi back again been speaking to my sister and we both said now we were never told we were at Pensarn farm
just at my dad's cousins farm but both of us thinking because where it was it was pensarn farm may sound daft
we no the road feels right but we both feel it was a lot longer walk as we been in Conwy in the car today going to do the walk from LJ station to the farm in a few weeks and see how that feels
-
That postcode that you supplied was for the farm Sarn Y Mynach by the Black Cat roundabout but I hope that that you enjoy the walk and you find something.
That area has changed a lot since your childhood and it may be that you'll just have to settle for those childhood memories
-
I think your right Hugo thank you
-
Just one more thing been speaking to my sister about us looking at Pensarn farm yesterday well I think we were looking at it lol
She said it to low down it took us about an hour to walk if any I would say the farm we went to was Tan Y Bryn Farm
Bryn Pydew but how could it be
I wish I could find the 2 photo I had
O well you have all been a great help cannot thank you enough
just wishing I knew what made my dad so unhappy, not to speak about his life.
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Anneelaine, I can't remember exactly who you said your father was but there is a definite connection of the Rogerson's to Pensarn Farm Llangystenin.
I've reposted a photo I took of a grave in Llangystenin Church some years ago and the inscription is in Welsh but this is what it's translated to in English
Mary Rogerson, dear wife of William Rogerson Pensarn Farm Llangystenin died 21st January 1917 Also
Catherine Ellen dear child of the above who died October 27th 1918 aged 1 year and 9 months old Also
William Bell Rogerson died February 19th 1940 aged 62
Just looking at that and the dates involved I'm guessing that Mary died after giving birth to Catherine Ellen which is so sad and especially so that Catherine Ellen died a short time later
-
Thank you Hugo ,
He married my grandmother about 9 months later 1917 and that's when it all started
my gran (Jane Ann Davies) was cast out from the family
He was on the farm with his first wife at first.
-
I was looking at the Llangystenin Baptism record for another forum member and came across a Baptism for the Rogerson family.
The information on the Register is as follows:-
No 241 Born 7/6/1901 Baptised 19th Jan 1906 Mary Agnes daughter to Mary Ann Rogerson 1 Margaret St ( I couldn't read the address properly but that's what it looked like )
So Mary Agnes Rogerson was an illegitimate child
I thought that I'd enclose the details for you
-
Hugo Thanks for that Mmm O dear I am back looking now THANK YOU SO MUCH
-
Hugo,
I took this photo to my aunt the other day
she looked away from it when I gave it to her
she looked a bit upset so did not say anymore
Do you know the name of the house please it looks a lot like the house I was telling you about
but without the side bits and moving the front door to the right place
so I can look up on for a name on 1939
Thanks you
Anneelaine
-
I'm afraid that I don't know where it is Anneelaine but It may be familiar to other forum members. It is quite distinguished so it should be easy to recognise.
I'll have a look later today on Google
-
I've found it and know exactly where it is. When I looked at Google earth the property was up for sale with Sterling Estate agents.
It's next to the farm on the corner of the Black Cat roundabout.
Go up the hill past the farm and then past a compound and the house is next to it on the right hand side as you are going up the hill.
It has the same postcode as the one you supplied sometime ago
By the way the house is called Castle Keep and I'm not sure if the compound is part of the land of the property
-
Hugo - you beat me to it! I had thought Pensarn Farm was on the other side of the old county boundary. I think Castle Keep is a more modern dwelling which has been extended. It does not seem to show up on Ordnance Survey maps until the 6" edition published in 1953 which was revised in the late 1940s. Castle Keep is quite firmly in the old parish of Llansantffraid Glan Conway rather than Llangwstennin.
-
Hey,
So that house would have been on Pensarn farm land do you think it could have been the farm house in 1967 ? also Hugo the photo of that small white house with my dad as a young boy you found with the dogs after you Hugo is so close to it or am I in the wrong place (castle keep)
Land Registry not showing it at all for the name of house Llansantffraid Glan Conway or Llangwstennin
Anneelaine
-
Castle Keep, Sarn Y Mynach To Glasfryn, Colwyn Bay, LL28 5LE
Found it
Detached
Year built:
1922
Bedrooms:
3
-
Hugo - you beat me to it! I had thought Pensarn Farm was on the other side of the old county boundary. I think Castle Keep is a more modern dwelling which has been extended. It does not seem to show up on Ordnance Survey maps until the 6" edition published in 1953 which was revised in the late 1940s. Castle Keep is quite firmly in the old parish of Llansantffraid Glan Conway rather than Llangwstennin.
Pensarn Farm was across the other side of the causeway at the end of the railway bridge and roughly where the Plumbers merchants is now and was in Llangystennin The other farm by the Black Cat roundabout is Sarn Y Mynach but I'm sure that I've seen old maps when it has had Pensarn shown by it and that was in Llansanffraid Glan Conwy just like Castle Keep.
Have you any idea when Castle Keep was built?
-
1922 Hugo
maybe this is the house I went to or My family lived in
could be where my Dad took me that day to his cousins he did not tell us her name just the old lady
O dear the house looks right but the grounds 2 small also no sheep around the house ( I have this picture in my mind and that place looks so much like it)
Anneelaine
-
Correct, Hugo. Old maps do show "Sarn y Mynach" as Pensarn. The other Pensarn was at the opposite end of the causeway in Llangwstennin so the naming is correct. My interpretation of the old OS map is that the Llangwstennin one was on the site of what is now Richard Williams' depot (used to be Bookers at one time). The buildings seem to have disappeared by the time the 1953 edition was produced.
"Castle Keep" does look as if it was built on land which belonged to Pensarn (Glan Conway). This Pensarn was still shown called thus on the 1953 OS map so when the change of name took place is anyone's guess. I suppose the rating records would give a clue.
-
;D wow
-
Anneelaine, don't forget that the place has changed a lot since you were a child and the area from the farm to Castle Keep would have been fields in your day and also across the road was farmland too
-
Hugo,
I was thinking that today we would walk from the junction station to the farm
it would feel like it was a long way and as you say would not look how it looks today
thank you all
-
Hey,
Thank you for all your info It now looks like we found the house
AND Hugo you found the little house in the photo wow
so when we move too llandudno soon I can try and fine out who lived in that house in 1967 and when was the name change
I can never thank you guys enough
Anneelaine
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I think the gentleman who lived in the house was a Mr Evans ,I believe he was an accountant or a solicitor in Llanrwst not certain , but his son Dewi farmed Gofer Farm in the Bryn Y Maen area .they also had a daughter I do not recall her name but will make enquires if it helps
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Robbie that would be great thank you.( Is this around 1967)
-
A few further details for you Anneelaine ,The original name on the house was Gwyrfai , A Mr Will Evans and his family lived there son Dewi daughter Ann .
I hope this of some help to you .
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I think the gentleman who lived in the house was a Mr Evans ,I believe he was an accountant or a solicitor in Llanrwst not certain , but his son Dewi farmed Gofer Farm in the Bryn Y Maen area .they also had a daughter I do not recall her name but will make enquires if it helps
I put in Gwyrfai into the online catalogue for Conwy Archives and there were 8 entries for Gwyrfai and the item below is similar to the others and the time was around the 1930's
Pair of semi-detached cottages at Conway Road, Llandudno Junction
Ddisgrifiad / Description for William Henry Evans, Gwyrfai, Glan Conway, builder. Approved. Architect: Messrs Dew & Arthur Jones. No. 1031.
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Hi Hugo,
Well I on a full stop now
Evens!!!! All I can think my Dad cousin the old lady in the house married a Mr Evens
it had to be the Davies side so here I go again Robbie Dewi Evens is he Still alive The guy at the house was maybe 50 that's in 1967 or maybe He looked older then he was
I know he scared me for sure he was a big guy with a cap never forget that face. :-\
thank so much
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Sorry to have taken so long in replying to your last post Anneelaine ,I am unable to find any further details for you other than Dewi ( son ) has died some time ago , and I have no details for his sister Ann.
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Thank you, Robbie, for that
Would you have an age for them at all
I know now 99.9%I am at the right house after sitting outside today
with my sister and going through it with her
my husband said he is going to put us in a home lol
Thanks
( EVANS RHYS WYN JANUARY 14, 2012 ORIGINALLY OF GWYRFAI, GLAN CONWY, DIED PEACEFULLY AFTER A BRAVE STRUGGLE, AGED 77. FUNERAL ..Just found this )
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Hi, can anyone make out the name of the farm is on this Attachment at the top is Hugh Davies the farm is in Glan Conwy? the one with the ffri
DATE 1891
thanks
Anneelaine
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it seems to be this one?
Hugh Davis
England and Wales Census, 1891
Name: Hugh Davis
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1891
County: Caernarvonshire
Parish: Llansaintffraid Glan Conway
Ecclesiastical Parish: TROFARTH
Registration District: Conway
Residence Note: Bontnewydd
Gender: Male
Age: 60
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Farmer
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Birth Year (Estimated): 1831
Birthplace: Denbighshire, England
Page Number: 7
Registration Number: RG12
Piece/Folio: 4672/ 32
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Hugh Davis Head Male 60 Denbighshire, England
Catharine Davis Wife Female 58 Carnarvonshire, England
Elizabeth Davis Daughter Female 18 Denbighshire, England
Thomas Davis Son Male 14 Denbighshire, England
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That's him need to find the name of the farm now Its my great x1 grandfather
Thanks
Anneelaine
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I haven't looked at this properly but you can see the problems that occur when someone copies details from one form to the next.
For a start the surname in the Census is Davies not Davis and Denbighshire has never been in England, that's a bit of ignorance on behalf of the person who compiled the info Rhuddlan found.
Anyway, I can't make out the farm name at present but it should be easy to find
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Thank you Hugo,
You right its not good
but what can we do
not a lot
Thank god they are not like me I write backwards alot of the time :-[
Again thank you
Anneelaine.
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Hi Anneelaine, these things happen but it just makes things harder to follow. The farm looks like Ffrith Y Foel but I can't locate it on my O/S map but will look again and try and find it for you
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I would say it is Ffrith-y-Foel ... I also recognise the names of some of the other addresses on that sheet. It is at map reference SH 802734, post code LL28 5RD ... at the top of Bodnant Hill (A470) there is a cross roads, take the left turn (when heading south) and it is the first house on the left. It is part of Bodnant Estate, and probably was back in 1891 as well.
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Meusydd and Bryn Hyfryd are both on the unclassified back road from Fffrith-y-Foel back towards Fforddlas Bridge, and Bwlch Farm is at the top of the hill heading eastwards from Ffrith-y-Foel.
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Thanks very much for posting that DVT, I've had a look on old maps but wouldn't have found it without your help.
I'm off for a game of golf now but will look at the maps later and thanks again
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I've had time to look at Google Earth and viewed Ffrith Y Foel. It is the first house on the left as you go down Ffordd Prenol from the A470. The house is a white building with the gable end facing the road and has it's name on a wooden sign by the roadside.
When I next go to Talgoed Nurseries I'll try and take a photo of the building
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When I started work (1965) and not old enough to drive I cycled from my home (Conway Cottage, next to the Bodnant Welsh Food Centre entrance) UP Bodnant Hill to Ffrith-y-Foel, where I got a lift to Colwyn Bay with the daughter of the family who lived there ... I cannot remember her name now, but the car was an Austin A35!
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Thank you Hugo
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Hi,
Still looking for it think i been all over lol
is it in Glan conwy been all over the A470
thanks
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Anneelaine, When you see Glan Conwy on Google Street map follow the A470 (Llanrwst Road) south through the village,
Go past Nev's Garage, then Talgoed Nurseries then you are looking for a staggered crossroads. As you look at the screen on the right is Ffordd Prenol
Turn down there and Ffrith Y Foel is the first house on the left
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This is Ffrith-y-Foel ... map reference and post code in my previous posting!
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Thank you Hugo ,
Could your walk across the fields to Pensarn farm ? is this house higher up?
it was my gt x 2 grandfathers farm well rented I would think.
Thanks Hugo
Anneelaine
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Anneelaine, here are some photos taken on a wet and windy day today of Ffrith Y Foel. It's in a nice location and the photos don't do it justice.
No you can't walk across the fields to Ffrith Y Foel from Pensarn Farm. You could walk along the lanes to get there but you'd have to be very fit and it would take you some time although it must only be three or four miles away. I drove past Pensarn Farm to get there but didn't check the mileage
According to DVT it is part of the Bodnant Estate and may have been so in 1891 so your ancestor would have been a tenant farmer on the estate
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Thanks Hugo.
Right so that not the farm Dad and his brother would walk across the fields back to Pensarn farm after work at a farm higher up
rethink again I think
thanks for the photos Hugo will put on my tree.
Anneelaine
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When I started work (1965) and not old enough to drive I cycled from my home (Conway Cottage, next to the Bodnant Welsh Food Centre entrance) UP Bodnant Hill to Ffrith-y-Foel, where I got a lift to Colwyn Bay with the daughter of the family who lived there ... I cannot remember her name now, but the car was an Austin A35!
A friend asked me to ask you if the lady you had a lift to work with was Eirian Jones , she had an A35 worked in the Bay .
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Hugo ... yes, that could be her. I remember it was a Welsh name but I cannot remember the surname. She did work in Colwyn Bay, but I cannot remember where. I think she was one of two daughters, her father worked for Bodnant as the house was part of the estate, and in those days they were rent-free (tied cottages) for Bodnant employees (as was the house I lived in). It was a black A35, but many of them were!
That property, and Croesau Farm at the nearby crossroads, are at the most northerly point of Bodnant Estate. Dyto, at the southern end of the wide part of the A470 towards Llanrwst, is the most southerly point. Croesau was sold to Henry Pochin (see below) by someone with the same surname as me and who I think could link into my family tree, but I've not quite found the connection!
As a complete aside, the Bodnant Estate comprises about 25 farms and cottages as well as Bodnant Hall and what is now Bodnant Garden ... purchased in 1874 by Henry Pochin for the sum of £67,500 ... his daughter Laura became a McLaren and that is the family name still there today, four generations down the line from Pochin.
Going back to the original enquiry and reference to walking to Pensarn, it would be quite a hike but in those days people did walk such distances without the need for wheels.
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Thanks Hugo.
Right so that not the farm Dad and his brother would walk across the fields back to Pensarn farm after work at a farm higher up
rethink again I think
thanks for the photos Hugo will put on my tree.
Anneelaine
Anneelaine, it would be impossible for me to tell you where the other farm was as there were so many in the area at that time.
Just recap on the facts of your original posting and that was about Pensarn Farm in Llangystennin. We know that your ancestors lived there and were buried in Llangystennin Churchyard.
Across the causeway ( Welsh = Sarn ) a few hundred yards was another farm also called Pensarn ( now Sarn Y Mynach) but that was in Glan Conwy and is by the Black Cat roundabout.
However from the Pensarn Farm in Llangystennin is a public footpath that goes across fields all the way up hill to Esgyryn Farm where other members of the Davies family once lived See the old photo of Esgyryn Farm that a forum reader kindly sent me.
A number of Davies' had farms nearby but further up the hill is Pydew and you have mentioned a Tan Y Bryn before and there are two farms up there with the same name of Tan Y Bryn,
Something to think about but do you know from other Census records where Hugh Davies was born?
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Hope I'm not going to confuse things but I use findmypast.com and it comes up with two Hugh Davis (without the e) - one being the Ffrith-y-Foel one and the other at Glanllyn, Pentreflin. Looking at the original manuscript I reckon both Davis families should be Davies with the e (the "normal" Welsh spelling), so whoever transcribed the info has made a mistake.
Now, the info that Rhuddlan has published is correct for the Ffrith-y-Foel Hugh Davi(e)s but I cannot see where the address given (Bontnewydd, Trofarth) reference comes in. As already stated, it would be quite a walk from Ffrith-y-Foel to Pensarn.
The other Hugh Davis I found is at Glanllyn, in 1891 he is 56 years old. His wife Mary is 58, and their three children are William 22 (Carpenter) and daughters Elizabeth 24 and Sarah 19 (both Dressmakers). So, where is Glanllyn?
Looking at the manuscripts Glanllyn the list goes Mariah Chapel, Marian, Glanllyn, Pant, TanyBryniau and a few further on Mynydd Merci, and I know the family that live there. I thought the chapel could be a good clue so looked up the 1891 map (old-maps.co.uk) and I find it is the chapel that is alongside the B5381 road from Glan Conway Corner (Black Cat) to Bryn-y-Maen - it has recently been renovated into a house - map reference SH827750. The old map also shows Marian to the north (SH 825756) and Pant(clyd) to the NW (SH 822756).
Map does not show Glanllyn but it must have been in that area, and within comfortable walking distance (about a mile and half) of Pensarn (the one near Black Cat) and not much further to the one on Llangwstenin road.
Could the Glanllyn family be your answer?
But one thing that does still puzzle me is the translation of Glanllyn - side of the lake - where is the lake?
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That's an interesting find DVT and you must have been busy on that research. The more contributors we have on here the better and it may help Anneelaine put the jigsaw together. The surname is Davies, certainly in the case of Ffrith Y Foel and it has just been transcribed incorrectly on Rhuddlan's find.
It's intriguing about your find of Glanllyn as I think that I visited the place when I was working and if I'm correct then it is a bungalow nearer the upper Llanrwst Road and there was no sign of a lake there but Llyn can also refer to a small pond.
You also mentioned Mariah Chapel and I have been to see it and taken photos of it. It's a beautiful building with breathtaking views but I was researching for someone else on the forum. He was looking for information about his Grandfather William Davies and he posts on here under the name Down under but his real name is Hugh Davies
As you will know the Davies' are a big farming community in the area and I was trying to establish a possible link between Anneelaine and the forum member Down Under
There are two Llandudno Junction people who read the forum but don't post things on it but have a wealth of knowledge about the Davies family and told me about a number of farms the Davies' had, most where around the Junction area but two were in Denbighshire but I've forgotten the names of them but think that they could have been in the Bryn Y Maen area. Perhaps they will read this and let me know the names of those farms
The only thing with your theory about Glanllyn is that Anneelaine has said that the men walked across the fields to get home but in Glanllyn's case it would have been easier walking along the B5381 and even then it would have been quite a slog.
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Interesting discussion. The Glanllyn that DVT refers to is a short distance from Marian (to the north east); there is a well nearby and possibly that gave rise to the name. I agree this would be quite a trek to Pensarn.
There is another Glanllyn in Pydew. It is situated by the Pydew (another word for well) so hence that name as well. This seems to have been a small holding and could have been reached "across the fields" from Pensarn.
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Thanks Cambrian for the info on Glanllyn. That's the one DVT was telling us about as those Census records were usually done in some type of order and I think it's the one on the Denbighshire side rather than the one in Pydew
I'm sure that our forum member Tom Jones can tell us some info on the Pydew Glanllyn if we need it
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Yes, now found Glanllyn on a map, it is very close to Marian ... old-maps.co.uk ... when I looked earlier I was viewing an 1891 map which didn't show it, but the 1900 one does! Looking on Google maps now Marian exists but no trace of Glanllyn - map reference SH 825756.
I do think that the walk to Pensarn would be directly North-West across fields until reaching the B5381 just up from Black Cat!
You can really tie yourself into knots on this family history stuff - I can trace my family on Bodnant Estate back to 1820 with several working for the estate, but there are a lot of other Thomas's there as well and I just cannot link them together. My family members are all labourers or gardeners, but some of the other Thomas's are the actual farmers - I'm sure they must link up!
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Hugo.
Hugh Davies 1828 • born Llansantffraid, Denbighshire, Wales
also worked on a farm called maidu mawz looks like in 1871
Anneelaine
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Hi.
How I know about the 2 farms and the walking across the fields to each farm is my uncle william got a wasp in his mouth
when in the fields and it stung him,
it just stuck in my mind.
Anneelaine
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Hey .
Think I found something 1871 Hugh Davies was working as a laborer @ Glanllyn.
Anneelaine
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Hi .
Forget the last bit got it mixed up
Anneelaine
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Hugo.
When i was saying about Hugh Davies age
also the name of the farm
Well it was Mardir Mawr, Llansanffraid.
Anneelaine
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The farm is still there Anneelaine. It's in an area of Glan Conwy that is known as the Graig and not too far from Ffrith Y Foel.
It's a nice looking building and the strange thing is that I drove past the property some years ago when I was looking for a William Davies and took a photo of the property next door to Mardir. On the photo of that other property you can see another roof of a building and that is Mardir's roof
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I think there are just too many Hugh Davies's in Llansantffraid in the 1800's!!! There is also variation in ages on the census but that was normal and could be up to 5 years out, so there is a little bit of guess work here!
Hugh Davies (birth year varies from 1835 to 1839)
1841 is at Brin y Felin, aged 6 (1835) with parents Hugh 25 (1816) a Labourer and Catherine 30 (1811), brother Robert 3 (1838) plus Thomas Thomas 70 (1771) and Martha Hughes 15 (1826) who have no relationship given
1851 is at St Ucha, aged 16 (1835) Agricultural Labourer at the home of Henry Williams, General Practitioner
1861 cannot trace
1871 is at Glanllyn, aged 35 (1836) with wife Mary 36 (1835), daughters Anne 15 (1856) and Elizabeth 4 (1867) and sons Hugh 12 (1859), John (1864) and William 2 (1869)
1881 is at Glanllyn, aged 46 (1835) with wife Mary 47 (1834), daughters Elizabeth 14 (1867) a Dressmaker and Sarah 8 (1873), son William 12 (1869) and grand-daughter Catherine 2 (1879)
1901 is at Glanllyn, aged 62 (1839) with wife Mary 64 (1837) and daughter Sarah E 27 (1874) a Dressmaker
1911 is at Glanllyn, aged 77 (1834), widow with nephew Hugh aged 18.
Hugh Davies (birth year varies from 1828 to 1831)
1871 is at Mardir Farm, aged 40 (1831) with wife Catherine 36 (1835), daughters Ann & Catherine both 10 (1861), Jane 7 (1864) and son John 4 (1867)
1881 is at Mardir Farm, aged 53 (1828) a Farmer & Agricultural Labourer, with wife Catherine 47 (1834), daughters Elizabeth 8 (1873) and Ellin 6 (1875) and sons Hugh 24 (1857) an Indoor Servant, Owen 22 (1859) a Joiner and Thomas 4 (1877)
1901 is at Ffrith y Foel, aged 73 (1828) with wife Catherine 68 (1833), daughter Elizabeth 28 (1873) a Dressmaker, and grand-daughter Catherine 9 (1892)
Then you have the following which could be linked:
1841 Hugh Davies 20 (1821) agricultural labourer living in the Yard at Nany y Cowardy (?) farme of John Wynne
1851 Hugh Davies 18 (1833) farm servant at Tyddyn Ucha for William Davies
1851 Hugh Davies 28 (1823) at Trallwyn with mother Ann 58 (1793) Farmer's widow born in Eglwysbach and brothers Evan 26 (1825), William 19 (1832) and Owen 15 (1836)
1871 Hugh Davies 51 (1820) at Tyddyn Ucha, Deunant with wife Mary 41 (1830) and daughter Mary Ann 4 (1867) + 3 servants
Trallwyn (map ref SH 794740) and Mardir (SH 797743) are very close together on the unclassified road that leds from Forddlas Bridge to the top of Bodnant Hill on the western side of the A470 (between A470 and River Conway), also not far from Ffirth-y-Foel. On the old maps there is a Mardir and a Mardir Bach.
I suspect Nant y Cowardy is really Nant y Cywarch (SH 812738) on the unclassified narrow road heading east from fforddlas Bridge.
Tyddyn Ucha is near Bryn-y-Maen at map ref SH812738
I suspect St Ucha stands for Stryd Ucha which is High Street.
Useful websites for you:
old-maps.co.uk
gridreferencefinder.com
google.co.uk/maps
Hope that is of some help ... more pieces for the jigsaw puzzle, whether they fit or not is another question!
Like me, with many of my ancestors from the same area (Glan Conway and Eglwysbach) there are a lot of duplication of names and they agricultural labourer and dressmaker seems to be the most common occupation.
Good luck!
Dave
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Sorry Hugo ... I had been compiling my message for last couple of hours and there is some duplication with your post!
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You've been extremely busy there DVT getting all that info together but it shows just how difficult it is to trace ancestors when they have such a common name.
I trust that Anneelaine has got the correct one at Ffrith Y Foel but it's important to check and then recheck just to make sure
Hugh Davies or Down Under as he posts on here had ancestors who lived in Tyddyn Iolyn in Eglwysbach so there is no connection to Anneelaine that we know of.
Regarding your own family history DVT have you been to the Conwy Archives to look at any records? They have lots of Church records going back to the 1600's in some cases
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Hi.
And thanks for that DVT great help .
I have been invited to service on the 11/11 Trefriw, Caernarvonshire,
2 of uncle's Davies were killed in France & Belgium ,1917
I been trying to find them on my tree for ages
and got a email asking me would I like to go a few days ago
So maybe I may meet some family.
Thanks guys
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Made for an interesting morning for me !!!
Annelaine ... I don't know if you use findmypast.com but I have a subscription so can get at a lot of info that is not free to anyone dropping in. They are adding more info each week and last week added some Kent 1931 electoral records - I found more info about my maternal grandparents - Mum came from Kent and met Dad, who was from Tyn-y-Groes, ar the end of the War when Dad was stationed there!
The old-maps website has proved very useful for me as I had three different addresses in Tal-y-Cafn and Eglwysbach that have not existed in my lifetime, but I found them on the old maps!
If you have any more info on the Davies's who lost their lives in WW1 I can look them up for you - they should be on the 1911 and 1901 census at least - name, age or year of birth, and address if poss then I'll see what I can find - they may well turn up brothers and sisters who you can relate to.
Hugo ... I've not been to the Conwy Archives but have found a few of my family in Eglwysbach records (and their graves!) and then the Thomas tree goes to Glan Conway where I think I've found the baptism of my great-great-grandfather in 1794 and it gives parental names but they are described as paupers, which is sad. I know g-g-grandfather was on Bodnant Estate in 1820 and can trace down to me very well from him!
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I've found this link helpful too
https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjVqOGco4beAhUJ53cKHTsfDygYABAAGgJlZg&ohost=www.google.co.uk&cid=CAASEuRodQVaHt4aLio5j5h8wZpy0A&sig=AOD64_1ba1HpBJENa8FqyK5yboVtkGjYSQ&q=&ved=2ahUKEwiK0deco4beAhXKD8AKHYyXAg4Q0Qx6BAgCEAI&adurl= (https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjVqOGco4beAhUJ53cKHTsfDygYABAAGgJlZg&ohost=www.google.co.uk&cid=CAASEuRodQVaHt4aLio5j5h8wZpy0A&sig=AOD64_1ba1HpBJENa8FqyK5yboVtkGjYSQ&q=&ved=2ahUKEwiK0deco4beAhXKD8AKHYyXAg4Q0Qx6BAgCEAI&adurl=)
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Hi. DVT
I was told in Dublin fine my past was the best one to use
Right names Davies, Gwilym Iorwerth Davies & Thomas Owen she said was a uncle but Thomas I do not know how,
Gwilym was my grand's brother both born Trefriw, Jane Ann Davies Born 1890
Thanks
Anneelaine
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Just one more thing
The grave owner at the time was a Rowland Lewis, from Llanrwst, who brought my gt Grandfather and Grandmother grave never heard of him,
Could I fine anything out about this grave I have now got a grave number Trefriw cemetery by st Mary's church
The lady who emailed told me this
Thanks
Anneelaine
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DVT - have you tried maps.nls.uk
This is the National Library of Scotland collection. I find it very easy to use and without all the commercial blurb on the old maps site.
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Annelaine ... found quite a bit about Jane Ann Davies and the Davies family! I started with the 1901 census and worked from there, but to put things in chronological order here they are. The first few entries become relevant as you read down!
1851 at Cefngwyn, Eglwysbach
William Hughes age 33 (1818) born Eglwysbach, farmer of 20 acres of upland
Catherine Hughes age 32 (1819) born Eglwysbach, his wife
John Hughes age 1 (1850) born Eglwysbach, their son
1861 at Garth, Eglwysbach
Wlliam Hughes age 46 (1815) born Eglwysbach, farmer of 150 acres
Catherine Hughes age 40 (1821) born Eglwysbach,
John Hughes age 11 (1850) their son, born Eglwysbach,
Mary Hughes age 8 (1853) their daughter, born Eglwysbach,
Catherine Hughes age 6 (1855) their daughter, born Eglwysbach,
Thomas Hughes age 4 (1857) their son
1871 at Garth, Cefnycoed, Llanrwst
same family as above but with slight variations on ages
1881 at Ty Newydd, Eglwysbach
Wlliam Hughes age 65 (1816) born Eglwysbach, farmer of 40 acrews
Catherine Hughes age 64 (1817) born Eglwysbach
Mary Hughes age 28 (1853) their daughter, born Eglwysbach
Catherine Hughes age 26 (1855) their daughter, born Eglwysbach, occupation given as "Domestic Servant out of Employment"
Mary Catherine Hughes age 4 (1877) their grand-daughter, born Eglwysbach
1881 at Mardir Farm, Glan Conway
Owen Davies age 22 - see previous information - that's how you can tie in with there!
1882 Owen Davies married Catherine Hughes at Llanrwst
1891 at Rectory Cottage, Trefriw
Owen age 32 (1859) a saer (carpenter), born Glan Conway
Catherine age 32 (1859), born Eglwysbach
Hugh age 8 (1883), born Glan Conway
Mary C age 6 (1885), born Llanrwst
Elizabeth E age 2 (1889), born Trefriw
Jane A age 1 (1890), born Trefriw
1901 at Bryn Rodyn, Trefriw we have
Owen age 42 (1859) a wheelwright, born Glan Conway
Catherine age 44 (1857) born Eglwysbach
Hugh age 18 (1883) a wheelwright, born Glan Conway
Mary C age 16 (1885) born Llanrwst
Elizabeth E age 13 (1888) born Trefriw
Jane A age 11 (born 1890) born Trefriw
Gwilym J age 8 (1893) born Trefriw - transcript incorrect as original shows I not J (longhand script writing!)
Gertrude age 5 (1896) born Trefriw
Thomas O age 3 (1898) born Trefriw
1911 at Bryn Pair, Trefriw
Catherine age 52 (1859) a widow and Lodging Housekeeper
Gwilym Iorwerth age 18 (1893) an Aluminium Works Labourer - that would be in Dolgarrog
Thomas Owen age 13 (1898) an errand boy
Margaret Mary age 1 (1910) grand-daughter, born in Llanrwst
1911 at Glasfryn, Trefriw
Hugh age 28 (1883) a carpenter and wheelwright
Margaret age 30 (1881) his wife, born Llanrwst
1911 at Ffrith y Wae, Glan Conway
The home of James and Anne Evans
Gertrude age 14 (1897) their niece born Trefriw, occupation shown as "helping"
Anne is shown with an "e" and born 1863 but could perhaps be the Ann Davies at Mardir Farm age 10 in 1871 then Owen would be her brother, and so Gertrude would be a niece.
1911 at Grassendale, Mostyn Avenue, Llandudno
Elizabeth Ellen age 23 (1888) born Trefriw, a General Domestic Servant for Walter Richard Kempson, the owner of apartments
I cannot find Jane Ann Davies in 1911 but guess she got married - to a William Rogerson ?
Cefngwyn, Garth and Ty Newydd are all fairly close to each other, alongside the road to Llyn Syberi, Tal-y-Cafn.
More pieces for your jigsaw puzzle!
Big coincidence when I researched that and I thought we would end up related!!! Your line has a Catherine Hughes living in Ty Newydd, Eglwysbach - so does mine! However, my Catherine Hughes was born 1839 and there on both 1841 and 1851 census - she was my great-grandmother.
Dave
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Cambrian - thanks for that tip, not seen that one before - much clearer than the old-maps ones!
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WOW
Thank you DVT.
a lot to put down.
Jane Anne Davies did not get married to WBR till 1917 so where was she lol Mmmm
Anneelaine
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Been looking for victory yard in Llandudno in 1911 for Jane Ann Davies was working or living here
thanks
Anneelaine
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annelaine
I think Victory Yard may be Victoria Yard.
This was off Back Madoc Street. There were five of these yards which contained workshops and small dwellings. The area has been re-developed a couple of times since the 1930s and now forms the Victoria Shopping Centre.
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DVT,
I was just been thinking Evens!! could this be the start of the name
William Henry Evans, Gwyrfai,
I all most sure 99%9 Gwyrfai was the farm my Dad took me to as a child (Dad cousin)
maybe over thinking again
1911 at Ffrith y Wae, Glan Conway
The home of James and Anne Evans
Gertrude age 14 (1897) their niece born Trefriw, occupation shown as "helping"
Anne is shown with an "e" and born 1863 but could perhaps be the Ann Davies at Mardir Farm age 10 in 1871 then Owen would be her brother, and so Gertrude would be a niece.
Anneelaine
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Looking closer at the 1911 census details for James Evans ... the census forms you can view online are copies of the originals, hand-written by the residents. Although the transcript gives the property as Ffrith y Vae I am confident the writing actually says Ffrith y Voel (spelt with a V and not F). The census also states that the marriage of James and Anne has been for 24 years and they had 4 children, three still living but not at that address.
Strangely I cannot trace James or Anne Evans on earlier censuses.
Who is William Henry Evans, cannot trace him.
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William Henry Evans, Gwyrfai, Glan Conway,
Lived at the farm I am 99.9%
thinking it was Pensarm Farm in 1967 or 66
Dad said it was his cousin that's all
Never heard of the name Evens before
till you said about 1911
Anneelaine
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William Henry Evans is too recent to trace through findmypast, but you have links to Hughes family at Trefriw, who are linked to the Evans family at Ffrith-y-Foel, so it looks as though things are coming together that way. It is possible that William Henry Evans is a decscendant of James and Anne Evans.
-
Could be I hope
thank you
:)
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this is Is this Rhys' evens son birth registration? William Henry( Evens But it says mother Maiden name as Evens) Mmmmm
General Records Office (GRO)
Rhys W Evans, Dec Qtr 1934, Conwy, vol 11B page 563 - mother's maiden name Evans
North Wales BMDs
Rhys Wyn Evans, 1934, sub district Llandudno, registers held Conwy County Borough, ref. DUDNO/16/38
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DVT
Maybe a bit thick.
But just got this from someone
There is a possible civil marriage in Conw(a)y district 1930 between William Henry Evans and Elizabeth Evans.The W H Evans born to James and Ann in Golborne was born in 1890 so if it is him it may not be a first marriage.
Thanks
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Hi forget this not on right track
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Hi keep going back & back and still coming up with this
James Evans Head M 41 Llenllan, Denbighshire
Anne Evans Wife F 39 Glan Conway, Denbighshire
Janes Evans Son M 13 Liverpool
William H Evans Son M 10 Golborn Lancaster
John Evans Son M 7 Burtonwood Lancaster
William Owen Boarder M 28 Whitford, Flintshire
we have got the William H evens here Mmmmm
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I said before that I couldn't find the Evans family before 1911 (when they were at Ffrith-y-Foel) but now had some success! I was looking to close to home, but your info added some clues!
1891 at Legh Street, Golborne, Leigh, Lancashire we have
James Evans, age 32, a Road Labourer, born Rhenllan (I reckon that should be Henllan, which is near Denbigh)
Annie Evans, age 30, born Glan Conway
James Evans, age 3, born Liverpool
William H Evans, age 5 months, born Golborne
also a lodger Thomas Williams, age 27, a Road Labourer, born Dinas Mawddwy
Then have the info you came up with ...
1901 at 3 Trecastell Terrace, Llangelynin, Conwy we have
James Evans, age 41, a Lead miner (there were lead mines in that area behind Conway)
Annie Evans, age 39
James Evans, age 13
William H Evans, age 10
John Evans age 7, born Burtonwood
also a lodger William Owen, age 28, a Lead miner, born Whitford
So ... it seems the Evans family moved around a lot, with various jobs!
Cannot find William H Evans in 1911, he would have been 20, not with parents at Ffrith-y-Foel.
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Hi ,
Thanks for that
I was looking at it all the time thinking what's going on here lol
Now I need to find W,H,E so he born 1890 in Golborn Lancaster I need to find him in 1911
I think Its go be a late night again
Anneelaine
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Hi i think we have sorted it Well may have lol
If William Henry is Rhys Wyn's son, it's possible he is named after the William H Evans on the 1901 Census, who is a possible father for Rhys Wyn. just been told this both lived @ !!!
Gwyrfai William Henry Evans,
Gwyrfai, Glan Conway RHYS tooooo
Who are my Dads cousins omg and it got to be the farm house we went to as a child wow
So the old man could have been Rhys he would have only been in his 30's bless omg
so it was not Pensarn farm Dad took us to as I said only told we were going to see his cousins
Thanks Anneelaine
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Could this be your William Henry Evans (born 1890) in 1911 - the last entry on this list:
1911 census at 8 Priory Road, Everton, Liverpool
William Jones, head, age 47 born 1864, Liverpool - House Joiner
Janet Jones, wife, age 46 born 1865, Liverpool
Janet Alice Jones, daughter, age 16 born 1895, Liverpool - Cigarette Maker in Tobacco Factory
Margaret Gladys Jones, daughter, age 15 born 1896, Liverpool - Cigarette Maker in Tobacco Factory
William Jones, son, age 12 born 1899, Liverpool - at school
Francis Jones, daughter, age 7 born 1904, Liverpool
William Evans, boarder, age 57 born 1854, Aberdovey - House Plumber
William Henry Evans, nephew, age 21 born 1890, Liverpool - House Joiner
As WH's family were over that way when he was born, is it possible he went back there. Note also that hs is shown as nephew so could that be adding more relations to your tree?
Hopefully I'm not leading you down the wrong road, but that is the only William Henry Evans I could come up with that seemed a possibility.
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Hi;
I see what you are saying .
O dear what do i do next lol maybe see if he is on the 1939
thanks
Anneelaine
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All mixed up now
someone sent me this
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Quote
Probate record gives date of death as 5 April 1956,granted to his widow Elizabeth (not an inconsiderable sum)!
There is a further probate record in 1959 for an Elizabeth Evans of Old Colwyn.Probate granted to Dewi Arfon Evans,farmer,and Rhys Wyn Evans,Engineer Officer,Merchant Navy.
no money left to the Ann Mmmmm
I have now lost it head spinning :-\
-
Back again,
I know now W H Evens lived at Gwyrfai, Glan Conway in 1956 just read his will cannot find his wife will 1959
so who had the farm about 6 years later when I went to it :-\ O dear me
farm was left to the 2 boys and not Ann
Anneelaine
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Hi DVT.
Just got this email
The William Evans who dies in 1956 and appears in that tree is consistent with a GRO death record in Aled district,aged 58 and therefore not the son of James and Ann.
Could I get a photo anywhere of pensar sarn Farm do you think?
I think Not
well back to thinking
THANKS
Anneelaine :-[
-
Hi.?
I know the house I am looking for is Gwyrfai, or a look alike
But Did Pensarn farm have the same look maybe
I am 99%9 I have been to this house Gwyrfai
my sister said the same
But Y Did we Go
I will never find out I think now
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Annelaine ...
... go to Google Maps and search for post code LL28 5LE, then go down to street view.
You will find a Shell filling station (known as Black Cat).
Turn the view through 180° and directly opposite you will see buildings behind a high wall, between the A470 and the B5381 roads.
That is Pensarn.
... however, there was another Pensarn not far away.
Pensarn Cottages still exist, and can be found by searching for LL31 9NJ
... I cannot find any trace of a place named Gwyrfai.
Hope that helps a little.
Dave
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Hi. DVT
Its now called Castle Keep
The photo in 1966/67 was without the side bits and the front door has been moved
I feel & my sister 2 this is the house but how can it be
God I wish I did not have OCD so I can move on lol
driving me mad
Thanks
Anneelaine
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DVT, have a look at this old map and you can see the Pensarn Cottages and on the right is Pensarn Farm which is now demolished and where Richard Williams and the Plumb Centre are now. That Pensarn Farm was in Llangystenin
Below that across the causeway is the other Pensarn Farm by the Black Cat roundabout and that is in Glan Conwy that is now called Sarn Y Mynach
Annelaine's relative was a farmer and I think that the Pensarn Cottages were for railway employees
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HI, DVT
Thanks for that,
Been thinking And it keeps coming back when we last went to the farm he never said this is the farm I was born on only we were going to see his cousin and walked from LJ the farm we went to look like Gwyrfai or
Castle Keep
the farm he was born always looked higher up Pensarn farm
I know my Dad would speak about 2 farms lower and a higher one
also my aunt age about 95 said when we went to her house
she had not Seen us from kids
I know you 2 you are from the top farm the Rogerson did not know are names just called us Rogersons this I cannot make out
Anyway I am stuck
so I will thank everyone for the kindness and help
Thanks Anneelaine
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Anneelaine, you might never get the answers you are looking for, but do you know or want to know where your father was born?
If you don't know where, then if you put his full name and date of birth on here then if he was ever Baptised then the Baptism record may help
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Annelaine ...
... does the farm name Waun Fynydd mean anything to you? That would be in easy walking distance of Pensarn Farm (the one where Richard Williams Builders Merchants is now). There is a very modern house where Waun Fynydd was, and the land around it is now houses all recently built. Waun Fynydd is up Narrow Lane before you reach the roundabout with the A470. On Google maps search post code LL31 9SZ then go up the road (Narrow Lane) a little way and the new house is the large bungalow opposite a parked red car ... only a couple of minutes walk from my house!
... Waun Fynydd could be regarded as upper from Pensarn, equally it could be one of the lower ones (with Pensarn) as there were other farmsteads on the way up to Pydew.
... incidentally the election area is still called Pensarn Ward.
Hugo ...
... was aware of Pensarn Farm. The Cottages, which are still there, were lived in by railway workers - one being my wife's Great-grandmother and her husband (not her great-grandfather!) and he worked on the railway around 1900.
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hugo,
Just looking his on BC and saying May 1918 Pensarn farm Llangystenin George Rogerson
Baptism record would be good
As I think my great grandfather worked in the church sometimes as rev so I was told
also my dads farther William bell Rogerson in 1911 he was a farmer on Pensarn farm with is Ist wife after her death in 1917 he married Jane Anne Davies 1918 still on farm but do not know what he did on it
something went on around I would say 1926 and Mary Rogerson 1st wife kids went to mary Rogerson nee Roberts family in Abergele, and Jane Anne Rogerson nee Davies, kids went into a home not far from farm
I know a lot of bits I should have a large family around but something went on again no one spoke about
Its the names I have to go on not helping Jones Davies Hughes lol
Rogerson name only came into wales in 1874 WBR the 1st married a Mary Jones from Dongefine, [Llangefni, Anglesey, Wale
well thats it when I move to LLandudno I think the library will be busy with me in it a lot of the time ;D
Anneelaine
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Thanks Anneelaine for posting that info. As well as the Library, the Conwy Archives have lots of records that may help you in your search when you come to live in Llandudno.
With regard to your father George Rogerson then the farm he was born in was the one in Llandudno Junction that has now been demolished.
You mention the children of Jane Anne Rogerson going into a home locally and I would imagine that home was Blodwel Home which was a childrens home in Llandudno Junction ( near the railway station)
Obviously I have no idea of any other farm that your family had connections with but I assume that one must have been Marle Bach because of that Court case involving Mary Ann Rogerson and John Davies who were both said to be living at Marle Bach and that was on 26th May 1902
That information was from the Conwy Archives online catalogue. Now this is just speculation on my part with no evidence to support it but as your father was called George Rogerson with an Irish connection there was also a family called Rogerson who ran the Mill in Gyffin Conwy
Another article in the online catalogue was from Mrs Connie Bannister nee Rogerson who said that her parents had bought the mill in 1920 and that her brother George Rogerson continued to work the mill until he sold it in 1947
I was just wondering whether George Rogerson from Gyffin was William Bell Rogerson's brother and that your father was named after his uncle.
Just something more to add to your list and to think about. Rogerson is certainly not a common name around this area and Connie Rogerson I would presume to be of an Irish connection
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Hugo thank you,
George Rogerson from Gyffin was William Bell Rogerson's brother I would say no as far as I know Only had a brother called Roger who moved to Liverpool maybe a cousin.
But WBR the 1st born Dublin had a son called George Rogerson born in Liverpool this was with his first wife the rest of the family born in Dublin
so lots to do thank you Hugo
Anneelaine
Hugo,
Just took a bit of a look and dates look OK for George Rogerson from the mill see what I can find
thanks :o
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I've Just put William Bell Rogerson in Family Search using Bangor as the" residence"(which in this case transpires as registration district)" (although I guess the actual address is on Anglesey) and came up with this guy. To what extent it helps I've no idea, but I thought I should post it anyway...you never know it could be useful. There seem to be several generations with" Bell Rogerson" including one from Newry in Ireland earlier in time on the site referred to above .
Name: William Bell Rogerson
Event Type: Death
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year: 1877
Registration District: Bangor
County: Caernarvonshire
Event Place: Bangor, Caernarvonshire, Wales
Age: 79
Birth Year (Estimated): 1798
Volume: 11B
Page: 405
Affiliate Line Number: 312
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Spot on .about WBR Bangor born 1877
His farther was born 1798 lol in Dublin
and he went into northern Ireland a lot
I had forgot about that
Thanks for that
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HUGO,
You may have got something here HUGO G T Rogerson who you told me about
the miller was also a corn merchant, Gyffin Mill, Conway
WBR The 1st was a Merchant most of the family also was
He lost all his money in London & Dublin went bankrupt in I think 1864,
Anneelaine
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According to a free BMD record there was a George Rogerson born 1918 and the birth was registered in the June quarter Vol 11B PG 728
Mother's maiden name Davies so that must have been your father. There was no other George Rogerson on the records.
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That's my lovely Dad Hugo.
I cannot get my head around How someone can be so rich & live in St George Hanover Square London
and I cannot find his grave in Bangor because he is a a paupers grave in 1877 my gt grandfather I am on about that messes with my head
Anneelaine
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I've double checked my earlier posting today by checking with Freebmd.
I don't know if its your ancestor or not but it seems unusual that there is a chap with an identical family name whose death was registered in Bangor as follows.
Did you get the death certificate I wonder? It would give more details obviously.
Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Jun 1877 (>99%)
Rogerson William Bell 79 Bangor 11b 405
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No that's him
no one knows about any grave for him with it been a paupers grave (I think ) so no headstone
so do not know where been put.
Thinking could his wife be in the same grave but she did not pass till around 1922 that was in Bangor Mary Rogerson her grave could be anywhere in Bangor.
AE
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Anneelaine, I have just been reading the Roots Chat website and you have posted there that you believe that William Bell Rogerson was buried in Coetmor Cemetery Bethesda, possibly in an unmarked grave.
Now you have mentioned that the grave could be in Bangor.
I was looking for a grave in Bangor a few years ago so I contacted the Bangor Crematorium and they were very helpful and not only gave me the grave number they gave me a map showing the location of the grave.
It might be worth a try if you phone the Crem on 01248 370500 or e-mail galwgwynedd@gwynedd.llyw.cymru
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Yes when I phoned up got told he was in Bangor but did not where
I always was told he was in Bethesda I know he death was in Bethesda But then told not
I will ring Bangor up today thanks Hugo
Anneelaine
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Sending you this Hugo
Anneelaine
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Mmmmm I can see now Bethesda is where he was living in the town not buried .
Anneelaine
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Anneelaine, sorry to throw a spanner in the works again but I think that you might be looking in the wrong place.
That burial register you have posted is for Anglesey and I'm guessing that Bethesda was the name of the house and not the town but of course I could be wrong
Llangwyllog is a small village a few miles from Llangefni in Anglesey
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Anneelaine, I've now seen another thread in RootsChat and you have already explored the Llangwyllog connection and someone called Big Al has given you a lot of information about your request and also your family tree.
The Burial index for that area only gives the graves location if there is a headstone on the grave and Big Al has said that there is no Rogerson listed in that index
There is nothing I can possibly add to this that Big Al hasn't already said to you. It sounds like William may have been buried in St Cwyllog's Church in Llangwyllog but only the Church and possibly the Anglesey Archives in Llangefni may have the exact location of the grave
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Some info from findmypast.com - hope it's not repeating or confusing.
1851 census - Canonbury Square, Islington, London
William Rogerson, age 52 (1799) Elastic Fabric Merchant, born Ireland
Annie I Rogerson, age 44 (1807) wife, born Ireland
Ellen M Rogerson, age 26 (1825) daughter, born Ireland
Mary A Rogerson, age 24 (1827) daughter, born Ireland
Emily F Rogerson, age 20 (1831) daughter, born Ireland
Louisa I Rogerson, age 18 (1833) daughter, born Ireland
Adelaide Rogerson, age 17 (1834) daughter, born Ireland
Florence I Rogerson, age 11 (1840) daughter, scholar, born Ireland
William T Rogerson, age 9 (1842) son, scholar, born Ireland
James T Rogerson, age 6 (1845) son, scholar, born Ireland
George Rogerson, age 4 (1847) son, norn Liverpool
There is also Ellen McCarthy, age 33 (1818) servant, born Ireland
That would suggest that the family came over from Ireland sometime between 1845 and 1847.
1861 census - 23 Church road, Hackney, London
William B Rogerson, age 62 (1799) retired merchant, born Ireland
Ann J Rogerson, age 54 (1807) wife, born Ireland
Emily F Rogerson, age 29 (1832) governess, born Ireland
Florence Rogerson, age 20 (1841) governess, born Ireland
George N Rogerson, age 14 (1847) clerk in a railway office, born Liverpool
There is also Henry Newgam, age 28 (1833) boarder, chemist, born Lincolnshire and
Catherine Connor, age 35 (1826) general servant, born Ireland
1871 censue - no trace of William Rogerson but could, from your note above, have been back in Ireland.
1871 census - Middle Street, South Place, Camberwell, London
Ann Rogerson, age 62 (1809) lodger, born Ireland ... could be the same Ann Rogerson above.
1881 census - Carnarvon Terrace, Llangefni, Anglesey
Thoams Davies, age 63 (1818) formerly farm servanmt, born Anglesey
Mary Rogerson, age 35 (1846) widow, lodger, Nurse (SMS), born Llangwyllog, Anglesey
Roger Rogerson, age 6 (1875) lodger, scholar, born Llangefni
Mary A Rogerson, age 7 (1874) lodger, scholar, born Liverpool
William B Rogerson, age 3 (1878) lodger, born Bangor, Caernarvonshire
There is also Catherine Jones, age 31 (1850) lodger, general domestic servant, born Llwngwyllog
There is also abirth in 1877 of William Bell Rogerson, 2nd quarter, on Bangor - mother's maiden mame Jones.
Noting your comment earlier about being rich to live in St George Hanover Square, London ... my maternal grandfather (George Roper) was born there in 1896 and the 1901 census shows him as living in Eaton Mews South, he was one of seven children. His father (also George Roper) was a groom and looking at the neighbouring properties there were a number of grooms and stable workers - I believe the street comprised stables. Certainly my family were not rich!!! The street now comprises some very exclusive and expensive apartments, and google street map won't take you down there!
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I see there is mention of a Bankruptcy . It was in 1864 when he was a mourning Hat Band Manufacturer.
From that I found a William Rogerson as a Hatter in Liverpool with Mary Jones as a servant. She and a visitor listed below
herald from Wales and I can only guess Mary became the Mary Rogerson 1929 probate for whom there is probate mentioned on a Bangor web site that has already been checked out by AE
Event Type Census
Event Date 1871
Event Place Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Enumeration District 35
Gender Male
Age 72
Marital Status Widowed
Occupation Hatter
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Birth Year (Estimated) 1799
Birthplace Ireland
Entry Number 23
Affiliate Image Identifier GBC/1871/3792/0229
Household
Role
Sex
Age
Birthplace
William Rodgerson Head M 72 Ireland
Jane Jones Visitor F 15 Wales
Mary Jones Servant F 32 Wales
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Yes thank you
I have done some phone calling today so hope to hear soon
been looking for graves in wrong place
Yep she left money to her brother 1929 William Jones
Thanks
AE
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DVT ,
Thank you for all that Anne Rogerson nee Mcgill past away in 1862 London
and WBR went on his way to Liverpool so he is in the 1871 census also my grandmother as a servant
married in Dublin and went back to or around Llangefni, Anglesey where she came from.
AE
-
DVT,
Yep he was very rich
houses in Dublin London Liverpool
was a ESQ William Bell Rogerson But lost the lot Poor guy
AE
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HUGO,
spot on,
Both WBR & Mary are in one of the churches in Llangwyllog or graveyards but did not know which one
could be St Cwyllog's Church in Llangwyllog but don't know. Forshaw
AE.
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As far as I can tell from Google there is only one graveyard in Llangwyllog, there are 4 nearby in Llangefni but you need to focus on St Cwyllog first and find out who has the records of the burials in that Church.
Perhaps the Anglesey Archives at Llangefni should be your starting point
Their e-mail address is
archives@ynysmon.gov.uk
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Hugo,
Been told today WBR 1877 & Mary Rogerson 1929 also Mary Anne Rogerson 1941 are in a grave together
in Llangwyllog.
Anglesey Archives at Llangefni told me today But as no stone on the grave it's not put on the records
but should give the church a ring and may get it that way
but cannot find the phone number.
AE
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anneelaine
Llangwyllog church now forms part of the Bro Elyth mission area. The vicar for the area is Rev Kevin Ellis and his phone number is
01407 831525.
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Cambrian,
Thank you so much for the number
AE
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Hugo,
Trying to find out about the George Rogerson who had the Mill Gyffin he was a Merchant I have just found out
My Gt grandfather was also a Merchant Mmmmm need to see what I can find out about this.
still looking thanks Anneelaine $hands$
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Hugo
Where is this house please?
I am thinking maybe we did not go to Pensarn farm in 67/68
But to his cousin farm around the same place. so would think it would be Davies or Hughes (No a lot of help I know )
Been looking at everything over again
and we have got 2 houses that look sort of the same
as what it looks like in my eyes thanks.
Anneelaine
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I'm not sure where that place is and unfortunately I am having to use the computer at the library as my own laptop has crashed. I'm only guessing but I have seen a building like that and I think that it's in Pabo Lane not far from where Pensarn Farm once was
-
Hi Hugo,
I was thinking that. the more I think about it It may have not been Pensarn farm we went to Because it was not very big
but lots of land but it was by the black cat roundabout on that lane
Going to see if I can find it this weekend if poss.
Thanks,
Anneelaine
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Hi.
William Bell Rogerson, born 1910 just seen this, was notified in 2012 by an RM Callingham about WB In Llandudno I think!!!
Would not think many Callingham about $hands$
Thanks, Anneelaine,
$booboo$ cannot find the name anywhere nowhere to be seen
BUT after saying that the name rings a bell Why!!! Only Callingham no first name at all coming into my mind.
Anneelaine
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))* I should stop digging Mmmmm,
Just found a Maud Rogerson
Death
1947 Liverpool South, Lancashire, England
it is saying she was married to WBR the second my Grandfather But he was still married to my grandmother in 1940 when he got run over in Liverpool
because he had no will; his money went to, Jane Rogerson my gran, Mmmmm (she had not divorced him.) I know that for sure.
Anneelaine
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Hi,
Just found an address, anyone, nowhere it is, please it should be a farm Frith Y Vaul Glan Conway
thanks
-
Hi anneelaine ...
... suspect you have found Ffrith y Foel (pronunciation would be the same but Vaul would not be a Welsh spelling!) - go back to page 21 of this topic where Hugo and I have mentioned it, Hugo with photos!
Regards
Dave
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It's a nice looking property and I took those photos after DVT found the place. It's just off the A470 as you are driving south from Glan Conwy. Go past Nev's garage and Talgoed Nursery and at the top of the hill there is a staggered cross road where you turn left and the property is less than 100 yards away
You can view it on Google street view
Quite often you come across Welsh names that have been spelt incorrectly so it can make it harder to find
-
DVT, spot on
you put this a little time ago
1911 at Ffrith y Wae, Glan Conway
The home of James and Anne Evans
Gertrude age 14 (1897) their niece born Trefriw, occupation shown as "helping"
Anne is shown with an "e" and born 1863 but could perhaps be the Ann Davies at Mardir Farm age 10 in 1871 then Owen would be her brother, and so Gertrude would be a niece.
James Evens, Ann Evens, (Nee Davies) Gertrude is the Niece
thanks
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Hugo,
I have been reading everything been sent and was looking at Page 5 the graves and things James Rogerson so I started looking into it and came across this.
James Rogerson
England and Wales Census, 1891
Name:
James Rogerson
Event Type:
Census
Event Date:
1891
County:
Lancashire
Ecclesiastical Parish:
CHRISTCHURCH
Registration District:
Barton Upon Irwell
Gender:
Male
Age:
29
Marital Status:
Married
Occupation:
Buyer For Ship & Merchant
Relationship to Head of Household:
Head
Birth Year (Estimated):
1862
Birthplace:
Lancashire, England
Page Number:
12
Registration Number:
RG12
Piece/Folio:
3154/ 36
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
James Rogerson Head Male 29 Lancashire, England
Mary F Rogerson Wife Female 27 Lancashire, England
Sydney J Rogerson Son Male 1 Lancashire, England
WBR father was a Merchant
so need to see now if I can find an address in or around rhos on sea &well& thanks guys
-
Hello back again, still at it
Looking for Cathrine Davies nee Hughes
Estimated birth year:
abt 1834
born:
Llangystenyn, Denbighshire, Wales
parents.
Any help please
AE
-
Think I found it,
1851 at Cefngwyn, Eglwysbach
William Hughes age 33 (1818) born Eglwysbach, farmer of 20 acres of upland
Catherine Hughes age 32 (1819) born Eglwysbach, his wife
John Hughes age 1 (1850) born Eglwysbach, their son
ae
-
))*I am so lost now Help.
Its saying Name: Catherine Hughes
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Thomas Hughes
Mother's name: Elizabeth Hughes
Gender: Female Born Eglwysbach
I know this is right well I think it is, because just meet my cousin 4 times removed we both got the same DNA, O dear, DVT help I am So lost, I am not getting any better.
1881 at Ty Newydd, Eglwysbach
Wlliam Hughes age 65 (1816) born Eglwysbach, farmer of 40 acrews
Catherine Hughes age 64 (1817) born Eglwysbach
Mary Hughes age 28 (1853) their daughter, born Eglwysbach
Catherine Hughes age 26 (1855) their daughter, born Eglwysbach, occupation given as "Domestic Servant out of Employment"
Mary Catherine Hughes age 4 (1877) their grand-daughter, born Eglwysbach
1881 at Mardir Farm, Glan Conway
Owen Davies age 22 - see previous information - that's how you can tie in with there!
1882 Owen Davies married Catherine Hughes at Llanrwst
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Hi annelaine ...
The plot thickens! My great-grandmother was Catherine Hughes (born 1839, died 1915) who lived in Ty Newydd in 1841 & 1851 with her parents William (1806) & Anne (1807). William and family, less Catherine as she was now married to Lewis Thomas, were at Pant y Ffynnon in 1881.
So, the William Hughes at Ty Newydd in 1881 is not the same one as in 1841 !!!
There are several Catherine Hughes, as you have pointed out ... so ???
I have ordered the marriage certificate of Catherine and Lewis to verify that I have the correct Catherine, so will have to get back to you on that.
I know, when I was a boy, that Dad used to visit Ty Newydd and I recall a reference to Catherine Jane who he knew there, and I'm sure there was a family link between us.
Family trees get very confusing, I can go back to the 1700's on my Thomas side, but on my mother's side I can go back to 1190 to a 23 x Great-Grandfather in Suffolk ! You actually have over 30 million 23 x Great-Grandparents !!
As for connections with Llangwstenin see the comments on the Quiz pages relating to the Pritchard family.
Stay safe.
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{}{} Hi, DVT,
I am happy it was not right, because my best friend for over 40 years, came up we could not believe it she is a cousin happy about it, we did not know as she was born Belfast,
anyway got a little info.
Catherine Hughes but Do not know much about them all I got is names
1859–1924
BIRTH ABT 1859 • Eglwysbach
DEATH 1924 • Conwy, Caernarvonshire, Wales
great-grandmother
Thomas Hughes
1821–
BIRTH ABT 1821 • Eglwysbach, Denbighshire, Wales
DEATH Unknown
2nd great-grandfather Add MyTreeTags™
Thomas Hughes
1791–1861
BIRTH 1791 • Flintshire, Wales
DEATH DEC 1861 • Gwaenysgor, Flintshire, Wales
3rd great-grandfather Add MyTreeTags™
Roger Hughes
1756–1842
BIRTH 1756 • Holywell, Flintshire, Wales
DEATH MAY 1842 • Gronant, Llanasa , Flintshire, Wales
4th great-grandfather Add MyTreeTags™
John Hughes
1718–1794
BIRTH 1718 • Isycoed, Denbighshire, Wales
DEATH NOV 1794
5th great-grandfather Add MyTreeTags™
View in Tree View Notes View Comments
And so on till 1500
Quiz pages relating to the Pritchard family.could not find?
Thanks AE
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Just one more thing, Owen Davies , Mother was also a Catherine Hughes, Mrs. Davies
BIRTH ABT 1834.
Owen father was Hugh Davies
B:abt 1828 Llanstffraid, Denbighshire, Wales
AE
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Hi anneelaine ...
... you will find the info about Owen Prtichard on this forum thread, you will need to go back a couple of pages.
Three Towns Forum - Talk about Llandudno, Colwyn Bay & Conwy »
Members' Lounge »
Games, Jokes & Quizzes »
Quiz Time!
Regards
Dave
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Got it Thank you.
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Hugo,
Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
« Reply #213 on: October 17, 2017, 10:19:50 AM »
still at it,
Do you know the name maybe off the house !! or
road, so when it open I can pop into CA in Llandudno
It looks so like the old photo I am giving up hope, BUT $donald$
AE
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This is the BUT,
Ffwthy Vuel Farm
LLANSANTFFRAID
My grandmother granddad 1901 was a farmer here Hugh Davies,
anyone heard off the farm .
1881
he was in Mardir Farm, Llansaintffraid-
.thanks AE
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Yes, anneelaine. The farm you are referring to is Ffridd y Foel or, sometimes, Ffrith y Foel.
It is opposite Croesau Farm just off the road to Llanrwst. Mardir is in the same general area but more towards the river.
Hugh Davies died in 1907 and is buried in the churchyard with his wife, son and daughter who died in 1905, 1903 and 1895 respectively.
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Thank you for that,
Oh, Right My GT GT grandad Hugh Davis, he passed away in 1907,
Also, his son Owen Davies passed away in 1907,
my GT grandfather,
not a good few years. I feel
Do you know the name of the graveyard please,
Cambrian?
Anneelaine.
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In Glan Conwy churchyard. As you go in towards the church, its in the 6th row on the right-hand side but the stone has fallen.
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Thank you, Cambrian.
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*cycle*DVT, I have now found the house Bryn Pwll Budr in Eglwysbach, Thomas Hughes lived & born in, so happy about it. also found the grave @ St Martin The right one this time lol Now to find John Hughes & mary Jones his mother father, may have not been married as she was still called mary Jones both widowed
thanks, AE
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Hugo ,when you told me about Jane Anne Rogerson grave.Posts: 13110
Re: Pensarn Farm Llangystenin Conwy
? Reply #133 on: June 05, 2013, 03:46:19 pm ?
Quote
unfortunately isn't listed in their burial books as she was buried in a Municipal grave. The Archive people said that the whereabouts of her grave may be listed in any one of a few dozen Registers and that I'd have to delve a lot for it.
I'm afraid that as it's a very hot day and I'm in my shorts, I've headed for the beach and an ice cream instead. You have said that you had seen it before so you may have some idea where it is. If you are looking at the Cemetery from St Agnes Road the Municipal Cemetery is on the right.
It keep coming back to me that dad would take us to her grave. but it had a large grave stone on it and I can still see her name in gold on the grave stone
but thinking if it was a Municipal grave would not have had a gravestone .Mmmm
I not going mad but for some reason !!! this house came up & it was Pen Y Bryn Cottage, Llandudno Junction i think its 1.5 miles from LJ station but it looks bigger now
I know we had been speaking about it B4 Mmmm
but maybe it could me the house we went
to,
its the outside made me take a look again.
Anneelaine
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Last word , I can see my dad saying its his cousin farm we are going to.
Thanks
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Sorry, one more thing my dad would say he they worked the top farm! for a time do not know what side the family it was, and top of the hill pen Y Bryn meaning .I always called it tyn Y Bryn so I got the name wrong maybe
oh well maybe right maybe not .#
will look into it .also it not far from pensarn farm
it was at the bottom .
Anneelaine