Three Towns Forum
Members' Lounge => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: DaveR on August 08, 2011, 06:54:31 pm
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When are the Police going to crack down hard on these scum in London? We have seen people losing their homes and businesses as a results of the actions of this vermin and it has to stop. It's time to use whatever means are necessary to restore order and make the morons understand that the rule of law will prevail. I only hope that all the lefties who spend their time verbally attacking the police are cowering in their homes in London behind a copy of the Guardian hoping that their homes don't get attacked - maybe they'll realise that they've been on the wrong side all this time?
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I felt the same, and back in 1981 I felt the same, it seems that many completely pointless morons have been bred and they carry on doing the same, can't we put something in their water supply to stop it? Whatever their misguided protest against the police might be, it does not excuse burning homes and stealing 40" televisons $angry$
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It's time to use whatever means are necessary to restore order and make the morons understand that the rule of law will prevail
What - exactly - would you suggest?
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One of the hardest things to do is for the Police to "crack" down on these people and events. It is nothing short of ORGANISED crime. The initial actions and fires are diversionary tactics started by fanatics who think they are fighting for a purpose. It is all a cover for the real crimes of looting and theft. The "soldiers" are more often than not people under the influence of drugs willing to do almost anything to get their next fix. The Barons are the ones controlling matters and will not even be seen on the street.
The intelligence passes around very quickly using modern technology and is not interceptable by the police, so a riot can be started in a new place almost within minutes. By the time the Police hear the main damage has been done.
The Police are doing as well as they are able in very difficult circumstances.
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It's time to use whatever means are necessary to restore order and make the morons understand that the rule of law will prevail
What - exactly - would you suggest?
Well, let me answer that by asking you a question. What would you do if a mob was outside your house throwing rocks, threatening your family and trying to burn it down? Because that's the situation these poor buggers are in now.
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At the risk of repeating myself, this is NOT a time to be reducing police numbers, and resource.
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I was an eye witness to the Bradford riots in 2001, a sickening few nights, but the policing tactics after night one were very effective.
They mobilised large numbers of mounted officers, drafted in from several regions, and herded the rioters into dead end streets where they could do little harm.
When they were penned in, they were filmed attacking the police and these pictures were put in the local papers.
One by one, the vast majority of offenders were arrested over the next few months.
Once convicted they were given EIGHT YEARS in prison.
Strangely enough, despite increased serious social problems in Bradford,there were no more riots... ever.
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It's time to use whatever means are necessary to restore order and make the morons understand that the rule of law will prevail
What - exactly - would you suggest?
Well, let me answer that by asking you a question. What would you do if a mob was outside your house throwing rocks, threatening your family and trying to burn it down? Because that's the situation these poor buggers are in now.
But that's not answering the question I posed, is it? There is a difference between what the individual does to protect their lives and property and what the first responders do in the same situation.
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This is the act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Contingencies_Act_2004) which may be invoked if the current wave of unrest increases. It makes for interesting reading.
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It's time to use whatever means are necessary to restore order and make the morons understand that the rule of law will prevail
What - exactly - would you suggest?
Well, let me answer that by asking you a question. What would you do if a mob was outside your house throwing rocks, threatening your family and trying to burn it down? Because that's the situation these poor buggers are in now.
But that's not answering the question I posed, is it? There is a difference between what the individual does to protect their lives and property and what the first responders do in the same situation.
Let me rephrase it then...what would you be happy for the Police to do to defend you if a mob was outside your house throwing rocks, threatening your family and trying to burn it down?
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That's a nice political answer, Dave :-)) TV politics: always refuse to answer a direct question and try to turn in back on the questioner. WWW
Here's an interesting fact: it's almost 30 years exactly since the last serious rioting took place across Mainland Britain.
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At the end of the day, you are either on the side of Law & Order or the criminals.
What Ian doesn't want to say is he would be quite happy for the Police to use any means necessary if it was his family and home being attacked. Isn't that true, Ian?
I was heartened to see a Facebook friend of mine, who is as lefty as they come, say today:
"Never thought I'd see the day when I would say something like this, but... about time they got the army in to deal with the mindless thugs that are bringing hell to the residents of London at the moment. Absolutely disgusting that these yobs are getting away with it."
She's seen the light at last - hallelujah!
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In previous episodes of civil unrest, they were quelled relatively quickly by high police numbers and stiff sentencing.
In other words those involved soon realised that there were consequences for what they were doing.
This time around it has spread, and will spread further as those involved have realised that there are NO consequences.
Until the Govt acts to make an example of those arrested, and maybe use the army, then it will no come under control.
Hang on a minute, the Govt are cutting army numbers too! All this was entirely predictable.
I dread to think of the damage and cost before real measures are brought in to control it.
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Makes one think that Gaddafi may be right! WWW
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What Ian doesn't want to say is he would be quite happy for the Police to use any means necessary if it was his family and home being attacked. Isn't that true, Ian?
I'm more than happy to answer your question, Dave, as soon as you've provided a clear and unambiguous answer to the one I asked first. There's a reason why we have Police, the courts and the Justice system; it's to deal with issues in a civilised way, rather than simply to extract revenge. You're the one who used the phrase "...by any means necessary" so I think the onus is on you to explain what you meant and not to repeatedly dodge the question, a bit like Teresa May did this morning.
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Hang on a minute, the Govt are cutting army numbers too! All this was entirely predictable.
'Fraid so.
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What Ian doesn't want to say is he would be quite happy for the Police to use any means necessary if it was his family and home being attacked. Isn't that true, Ian?
I'm more than happy to answer your question, Dave, as soon as you've provided a clear and unambiguous answer to the one I asked first. There's a reason why we have Police, the courts and the Justice system; it's to deal with issues in a civilised way, rather than simply to extract revenge. You're the one who used the phrase "...by any means necessary" so I think the onus is on you to explain what you meant and not to repeatedly dodge the question, a bit like Teresa May did this morning.
Is it not self explanatory? 'By any means necessary' means just that - if it means shooting the scum, then so be it. You think they care one iota about you and your 'civilised way'? The idea that things are done in a more civilised way in Britain won't cut any ice with these people - they treat tolerance as weakness.
Now, your answer was...? WWW
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Waterstone's shelves are probably still full. Stupidity is a formidable contender.
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just make them disappear in the night, they were on about water cannons earlier, far too soft, lead is far more effective, they are just oxygen thieves. We've had all these years of politically correct twaddle, time to clamp down hard!
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Waterstone's shelves are probably still full. Stupidity is a formidable contender.
L0L good point!
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Now, your answer was...?
As I said earlier, there's good reason why the courts and the justice system intervene between me and a desire for revenge, because that's what would motivate me to deal with anyone who attacked me or mine. I remember when the kids were young that I would happily have dispatched anyone who'd assaulted them.
I've been caught up in a riot, so I know what it's like, to some extent. The sheer sense of anarchy, of utter powerlessness in the face of naked and unfettered aggression isn't an altogether comforting feeling, and most folk seek an escape by the fastest possible route. I gather that what happened the night before in London was the the locals felt as though the Police had deserted them, and that must have been a terrifying ordeal. Both Yorkie and Fester make excellent and extremely thought-provoking posts and both, I think, show that there are no easy answers to what happened. But the common thread to riots in the West appears to be a sense of disaffection on the part of those rioting; and there's no shortage of older criminals, ready and wiling to channel the unfocussed rage towards the lucrative town shops.
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We've had all these years of politically correct twaddle, time to clamp down hard!
Well, I suppose you have to choose the society in which you want to live. I'm not sure how "years of politically correct twaddle" have resulted in rioting, yet again, in the UK, but if you and Dave are advocating execution-style justice, then I'd be interested to know exactly how you would choose those to be shot? Or would you simply hose them down with a Gatling or two?
I'm also a tad bemused by your suggestion, Dave, that a lot of this s down to the 'lefties'. By that logic, presumably, left wing states will be the most liberal of all? Perhaps a long stay in North Korea would be in order?
WWW
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simply hose them down with a Gatling or two?
ideal $good$
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But the common thread to riots in the West appears to be a sense of disaffection on the part of those rioting; and there's no shortage of older criminals, ready and wiling to channel the unfocussed rage towards the lucrative town shops.
Yes, a sense of disaffection. This all brings back memories. I was living in N17 in 1985, not far from Broadwater Farm. The police raided a female's flat, she had a heart attack, which, in some of the resident's view, was caused by the Police presence.
A riot broke out and a Policeman protecting firefighters was stabbed and hacked to death with a machete.
That was 26 years ago.
It seems nothing has changed really.
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It does seem in London, anyway, as though there's a very real hatred between the Met and those it polices. And I wonder how much of this is down to the recent issues surrounding the Met, that might have contributed to a sense of 'wrong-footing' the Police, since they, themselves appeared under attack. Ally that to the constant talk of cuts, and it seems there's a ready-made recipe for unrest.
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Well, I suppose you have to choose the society in which you want to live.
The mob have made the decision about what sort of society we have, Ian, your views don't matter to them.
Looking on Facebook and Twitter this morning, the overwhelming view is that the Army should be used and rioters should be shot if necessary. Declare a Curfew first, issue a warning to anyone remaining on the streets and no-one can say that they weren't warned.
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Maybe it was a justified shooting that triggered ( ;D) the riots. Apparently, a hand gun was found at the scene and apparently a Police officer's radio was struck by a bullet.
Time will tell.
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Well, I suppose you have to choose the society in which you want to live.
The mob have made the decision about what sort of society we have, Ian, your views don't matter to them.
Very true Dave.
There was serious violence overnight in Hackney, Peckham and Ealing and unrest in Deptford, Camden, Kensington, Lewisham, Bethnal Green and Woolwich.
Copycat riots reported in Birmingham, Bristol, Nottingham, and Liverpool.
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Maybe it was a justified shooting that triggered ( ;D) the riots. Apparently, a hand gun was found at the scene and apparently a Police officer's radio was struck by a bullet.
Time will tell.
But having said that and whilst cowering in my home reading the Guardian, I note that it reports that the bullet found apparently lodged in the Police radio may indeed be a Police round.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/07/police-attack-london-burns (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/07/police-attack-london-burns)
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I read in i just now that it was thought the bullet had been fired from a starting pistol that had been modified to fire live bullets. I don't think those are police issue.... :P
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Parliament is being recalled on Thursday in response to rioting in England, the prime minister has said.
The government's emergency committee Cobra met on Tuesday after rioting spread across London, with violence flaring in other major cities.
"We will do everything necessary to restore order to Britain's streets and make them safe for the law-abiding," David Cameron said in Downing Street.
More than 16,000 officers will be on London streets on Wednesday, he said.
Meanwhile, Scotland Yard said a 26-year-old man shot in a car during riots in Croydon has died in hospital.
Mr Cameron said at least 450 people have been arrested so far.
He condemned what he called "sickening scenes of people looting, vandalising, thieving, robbing".
All Metropolitan Police leave has been cancelled and reinforcements called in from other forces, he said, with treble the number of police than before patrolling the streets of London on Tuesday night.
He told rioters: "You will feel the full force of the law. And if you are old enough to commit these crimes, you are old enough to face the punishment."
The recall of Parliament will allow MPs to "stand together in condemnation of these crimes and to stand together in determination to rebuild these communities", he said.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14460554 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14460554)
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I read in i just now that it was thought the bullet had been fired from a starting pistol that had been modified to fire live bullets. I don't think those are police issue.... :P
No, I don't think they are. Foolish thing to do too. A replica firearm is made from inferior materials and is liable to explode if live ammo is used.
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/82798,news-comment,news-politics,news-catch-up-london-riots-spread-to-bristol-birmingham-and-manchester-markets-plummet (http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/82798,news-comment,news-politics,news-catch-up-london-riots-spread-to-bristol-birmingham-and-manchester-markets-plummet)
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It amazes me how people can turn on their own communities, the very place they live in.
This woman says it all really, as she has a go at a bunch of rioters in Hackney.
*WARNNG - she uses some choice words which may not be suitable for minors*
http://youtu.be/kgwfVXSX4Fg (http://youtu.be/kgwfVXSX4Fg)
"Dirty thieves ya know"
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Declare a Curfew first, issue a warning to anyone remaining on the streets and no-one can say that they weren't warned.
So what about any innocents making their way across the street? D'you seriously believe that you can assume everyone will hear about the curfew? What about the deaf? The blind? The mentally ill? The homeless? Or should all of those be shot?
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The mob have made the decision about what sort of society we have, Ian, your views don't matter to them.
No, the mob are just that. The trouble is separating the mob from the decent human beings.
There's another point: has it occurred to any of the righteous that many of the 'mob' may well be saying "well, MPs break the law, newspapers break the law, the rich break the law; why shouldn't we?'. We've been surrounded for over three years with stories about how the supposed 'bulwarks of society' have broken the law, willy-nilly, and escaped - by and large - scot free. The mob have destroyed homes - that's certainly true; but I suspect a lot of those involved are seeing a gradual and inexorable breakdown of society, led by MPs, Bankers, Stockbrokers, the Media, tycoons and all the people who are supposed to lead by example. You might want to shoot the more obvious targets, but what about the bankers who've destroyed lives? The media proprietors? Should we shoot them? Or shod we only shoot those who threaten those with money?
It's easy to look at the more visible lawbreaking and condemn it. But the reality is that the law is being broken, massively, and yet the lawbreakers are getting away with it.
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Declare a Curfew first, issue a warning to anyone remaining on the streets and no-one can say that they weren't warned.
So what about any innocents making their way across the street? D'you seriously believe that you can assume everyone will hear about the curfew? What about the deaf? The blind? The mentally ill? The homeless? Or should all of those be shot?
I suspect the burning vehicles, lines of Riot Police and yobs throwing missiles at them might alert them that something is up.. :-X
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A Gatling gun has been mentioned. The problem with a Gatling gun is it's arc of fire and collateral damage. You will have rounds flying everywhere through house and business windows, into cars, buses and the like.
Send in the Army? The Met has a very capable firearms unit in CO19.
The problem is the ethical and legal ramifications if you're going to shoot someone in the head for stealing a flat screen TV. The problem the Police has is, containing and stopping the riot, while doing it in a legal manner.
A car was found burnt-out on the West Shore. Did people want to shoot the perpetrator/s? A child steals sweets from the Red Shop, blow his legs off with a shotgun?
Don't forget a lot of these rioters are children. I believe an 11 year old has been charged.
You could send in the Army, but you may well have a repeat of Derry 1972.
Suppose you could send in some Chinese tank drivers though. :-X
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I suspect the burning vehicles, lines of Riot Police and yobs throwing missiles at them might alert them that something is up..
But you said a curfew - not only a curfew in the immediate vicinity of a riot.
But here's a thing:
The mob have made the decision about what sort of society we have, Ian, your views don't matter to them.
The real question is whether we choose to deal with the perpetrators of a riot in the same way as they choose to deal with society. That's the crux of it. Do we dispense summary justice, or do we maintain that the courts and procedure have a part to play?
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Don't forget a lot of these rioters are children. I believe an 11 year old has been charged.
Excellent point. And therein lies the problem.
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At the end of the day, you are either on the side of Law & Order or the criminals.
I think you will find that some of the rioters and looters were, for the most part, law abiding citizens.
A chance came up, to run around unsupervised, with hardly a Police presence and grab items which they couldn't normally afford,
Why? BECAUSE THEY COULD.
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trojan none of them were law abideing ,if they were they wouldn,t be doing that they are just SCUM, i just wish the police could give the doggy doos a good kicking hear them scream then, youth of today hard done by don,t make me laugh , my 3 sons do a decent days work
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trojan none of them were law abideing ,if they were they wouldn,t be doing that they are just SCUM, i just wish the police could give the doggy doos a good kicking hear them scream then, youth of today hard done by don,t make me laugh , my 3 sons do a decent days work
Norm, what I meant is law abiding BEFORE the riots.
i just wish the police could give the doggy doos a good kicking hear them scream
Now you're talking to me Norman.....that I like! <:>
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A car was found burnt-out on the West Shore. Did people want to shoot the perpetrator/s? A child steals sweets from the Red Shop, blow his legs off with a shotgun?
I once had a car stolen in around 1980, back the next day minus the stereo, to this day I would be happy to shoot him, they can't do it again then!
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A car was found burnt-out on the West Shore. Did people want to shoot the perpetrator/s? A child steals sweets from the Red Shop, blow his legs off with a shotgun?
I once had a car stolen in around 1980, back the next day minus the stereo, to this day I would be happy to shoot him, they can't do it again then!
I see Merddyn. If I ever stroll over to Penrhyn Bay to take a look at your Triumph Spitfire parked in your driveway, remind me to ring your door bell first. :-X
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Hmmmm....in which area of Liverpool were the riots taking place?
Yes, you've guessed it.....Liverpool 8!
Nothing like a good fracas along "Upper Parly" is there?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/09/liverpool-riots-toxteth-residents-describe-chaos (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/09/liverpool-riots-toxteth-residents-describe-chaos)
My question is, what are 10 years old's doing (yes, rioting) out at that time of night? This is a prime example of social breakdown. Where were their parents? Joining in? Or putting their "orders"in?
"Hey youse, don't forget to come backkk with a telly and a few IPones".
Or were they down the pub, when their kids put the windows through?
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A car was found burnt-out on the West Shore. Did people want to shoot the perpetrator/s? A child steals sweets from the Red Shop, blow his legs off with a shotgun?
I once had a car stolen in around 1980, back the next day minus the stereo, to this day I would be happy to shoot him, they can't do it again then!
I see Merddyn. If I ever stroll over to Penrhyn Bay to take a look at your Triumph Spitfire parked in your driveway, remind me to ring your door bell first. :-X
You will always be welcome :)
Seeing these mindless rioters on the BBC news, got me very angry this morning, it's happened to other people that I've been chatting to in a shop today too! I think most people in this country are up in arms over it :(
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A child steals sweets from the Red Shop
That would be Burglary, mate, it's been shut down for a year. :laugh:
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Why don't they just arrest everyone wearing a "hoodie", throw them in the back of 40 foot containers, then drop them in the middle of the Atlantic?
Ban the Burka at the same time.
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There's another point: has it occurred to any of the righteous that many of the 'mob' may well be saying "well, MPs break the law, newspapers break the law, the rich break the law; why shouldn't we?'. We've been surrounded for over three years with stories about how the supposed 'bulwarks of society' have broken the law, willy-nilly, and escaped - by and large - scot free. The mob have destroyed homes - that's certainly true; but I suspect a lot of those involved are seeing a gradual and inexorable breakdown of society, led by MPs, Bankers, Stockbrokers, the Media, tycoons and all the people who are supposed to lead by example. You might want to shoot the more obvious targets, but what about the bankers who've destroyed lives? The media proprietors? Should we shoot them? Or shod we only shoot those who threaten those with money?
I doubt if even 1% of these thugs has ever thought about such things. Do the 'Bankers and Media Proprietors' use violence and destroy peoples homes and livelihoods? I hardly think so. And what on earth have Stockbrokers ever done?!
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Joke (courtesy of Fester):
"I was caught up in the riots in Tottenham last night and needed to find somewhere safe to hide, somewhere that the rioters would never go to. So I hid in the Jobcentre."
I know, it's the way I tell 'em... :laugh:
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A shop has been set on fire during the riots in London.
It is now a Tottenham Hot-spar. _))*
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Just watching tonight's Sky tv news coverage from Salford. The question might be asked as to whether the presence of sky cameras (at exactly the spot where the trouble was) is reporting the news or creating it. How may of the people involved were induced into taking part because the cameras were there and they could look "hard" in front of their mates. Shameless is a word that springs to mind!
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Very good point, TheMedz. The presence of tv cameras undoubtedly encourages such behaviour. Both Sky and the BBC are particularly guilty in this respect.
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I think they should flood light the streets. introduce a curfew then tag anyone caught out, prosecute the ones that are and make an example out of them. Parents held responsible for all those kids out after 8pm. If the streets are flood lit it would be easier to take photos, if I had a shop in one of these areas my CCTV would be pointing straight at the doors and windows.
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Fair play there is people out there prepared to speak out against these thugs.
Truly extraordinary speech by fearless Black Woman in face of Hackney London rioters - A MUST SEE. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SHKhvVjLIc#)
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Facebook Page for people to join:
"Supporting the Met Police against the London rioters"
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Supporting-the-Met-Police-against-the-London-rioters/152937041453243?sk=info (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Supporting-the-Met-Police-against-the-London-rioters/152937041453243?sk=info)
In just one day 774,358 people have joined the Group.
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I've joined the page.
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From whats been said on face book and the vids being posted Millwall and Palace fans have joined up to get rid of the rioters. I can't post them here for some reason. It seems racist factors of the communities are now getting involved with the excuse"it's for the nation"?
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Ah well this is of course the next logical progression.
The rioters and looters are predominantly black, it is not wrong to say that .. its true, look at the TV footage.
It is only cities with a heavy black population (Wolverhampton, Bristol etc) that have followed suit.
So, of course this will cause further divisions along ethnic lines, and allow the BNP, the EDL and others to garner more support.
But thats natural, and the rioters have brought it on themselves ... and deserve all they get in terms of vilification and punishment.
There has to be an example set, long prison sentences etc... a few cracked heads by police batons, its the only thing they understand. Remember this, they would do it to YOU, without a moments hesitation.
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I agree Fester $good$
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Well swooping in with bullets and banging up every one who looks a bit suspect is NOT going to work!
They tried that in Northern Ireland and look what happened!! almost 30 years of bloodshed after 1972.. and they finally realised that the way to get things done was to TALK to those involved. Not condemm them.
There is a large number of people clearly who feel completely out of touch with the society they are in, and it's these outcasts that need to be reached out to and helped, not shot at, put in prison or anything else so thoughtless.
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Ah well this is of course the next logical progression.
The rioters and looters are predominantly black, it is not wrong to say that .. its true, look at the TV footage.
It is only cities with a heavy black population (Wolverhampton, Bristol etc) that have followed suit.
So, of course this will cause further divisions along ethnic lines, and allow the BNP, the EDL and others to garner more support.
But thats natural, and the rioters have brought it on themselves ... and deserve all they get in terms of vilification and punishment.
There has to be an example set, long prison sentences etc... a few cracked heads by police batons, its the only thing they understand. Remember this, they would do it to YOU, without a moments hesitation.
My point exactly Fester. However I like to think that I'm reasoned and educated enough to be ABOVE the same mentality as those who are rioting... You are clearly going for the if they can do it why can't we approach... That is going to get nobody anywhere... except more violence and antipathy from those involved.
For every skull you crack they'll be hundreds more like them stepping forward, just like there was in the IRA and the UDA.
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B2B Ireland was based on religion and oppression, these riots I'm afraid have nothing to do with either and more to do with looting a plasma and running amok.
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B2B Ireland was based on religion and oppression, these riots I'm afraid have nothing to do with either and more to do with looting a plasma and running amok.
Not really... it was based on how those people were treated and how they felt their role was in society.. read the autobiographys of nearly any ex Ulster terrorist and the stories always the same... it was the way they were expected to act and so they did. Most of them will tell you they are really no different than the people they were fighting against.
We are a greedy gameshow culture now, reality TV has a lot to answer for in that respect. Is it any wonder that people think it's acceptable to grab a Plasma TV from a shop window, when other morons have made millions coming from the same background and having no talent but having been "lucky" enough to be exploited by a certain TV show.
We're a smash and grab society I'm afraid - hard work is no longer a revered quality.
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The young lad who openly set fire to Miss Selfridges in Manchester and the vast majority of the people confronting the police in Salford where white skinned The other main difference between these 2 areas and all the other riot sites was that the perpetrators didn't have the sense to cover themselves up and should hopefully be able to be traced.
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The crux is this.. a few thousand years ago, the human race decided that it wanted to become civilised.
As such, they created a society, with levels, customs and above all LAWS.
For society to function, these laws (which vary from society to society) must be enforced. Enforced hard, and sometimes savagely to deter those who want to undermine and destroy civilised society.
If these anarchists persist and get their own way, won't they be gutted when society tumbles and there is no electricity to power thier 40 inch plasma telly, or a double-cheeseburger for £1.39? They will not like what they seek.
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Well swooping in with bullets and banging up every one who looks a bit suspect is NOT going to work!
They tried that in Northern Ireland and look what happened!! almost 30 years of bloodshed after 1972.. and they finally realised that the way to get things done was to TALK to those involved. Not condemm them.
There is a large number of people clearly who feel completely out of touch with the society they are in, and it's these outcasts that need to be reached out to and helped, not shot at, put in prison or anything else so thoughtless.
I very much doubt that I would ever agree with you about anything, if these idiots have been shot they can't do it again!
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This was an interesting post on Oscar:
The basic problem is that our country has gone soft; soft on crime and soft on punishment. There is now no deterrent to stop the "don't work, won't work" youth from just doing what they like. The emperor’s new clothes just won't cover up the holes in the system any longer. The bad guys have realised that if they overload the system, the system can't cope. Thousands rioting? they can't imprison all of them so there's not much to fear. Co-ordinated attacks on different areas - the police are just spread to thin. Rioters can use bricks, fireworks, petrol bombs and then can hide behind the human rights act. Want something? Just take it nobody's going to stop you; and if they do stop you, just shout police victimisation! No fear, there's not much to be afraid of! If caught, the worst they'll probably get is a two month suspended sentence or a few hours community service. Yea, that's really frightening!
The time has come, I'm afraid to say, to wind back some civilisation. This is a bitter pill. We should all find it distasteful. However, the decent humane approach has failed. Over the last forty years respect for the laws of our land has eroded away. The criminal and lawless fraternity have pushed against the old boundaries; the boundaries hard set during centuries of capital and corporal punishment. The good and gentlefolk of this land have tried to make the lot of the criminal more civilised and humane. The criminal fraternity is now seeing this humanity as weakness and is increasingly taking advantage of it.
Read the riot act and bring back the birch. Soon it will be too late and it really will be Anarchy in the U.K.
10 August 2011 00:39
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Well swooping in with bullets and banging up every one who looks a bit suspect is NOT going to work!
They tried that in Northern Ireland and look what happened!! almost 30 years of bloodshed after 1972.. and they finally realised that the way to get things done was to TALK to those involved. Not condemm them.
There is a large number of people clearly who feel completely out of touch with the society they are in, and it's these outcasts that need to be reached out to and helped, not shot at, put in prison or anything else so thoughtless.
I very much doubt that I would ever agree with you about anything, if these idiots have been shot they can't do it again!
On that logic. I suggest the Police go out and randomley shoot one in every 4 people. This will cut crime by 25%
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It was good to see the people of Enfield standing up for their community last night. About 400 of them were in the Town Square ready to defend the shops etc against rioters. No doubt the Lefties won't like that either! I see it as Cameron's Big Society taken to its logical conclusion. ;)
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On that logic. I suggest the Police go out and randomley shoot one in every 4 people. This will cut crime by 25%
No, because only a small minority of people are criminals. However, shooting 25% of criminals would probably result in a 25% reduction in crime..
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On that logic. I suggest the Police go out and randomly shoot one in every 4 people. This will cut crime by 25%
No, because only a small minority of people are criminals. However, shooting 25% of criminals would probably result in a 25% reduction in crime..
exactly, you can talk to these idiots all day long, to 99% of them it will be pointless, they are too far gone, think of the massive savings in benefits too!
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Once the Police have rounded the perpetrators they should put them in the chimp and gorrila cages in all the UK Zoos so that ordinary people can go and ogle them. Feed them on what the animals get, for they are just animals themselves. Let them sleep on straw that they will no doubt soil with their own waste. Leave them without heat or light. Let the public throw stale buns and rotting vegetables at them and laugh at their plight. They'll soon learn! WWW
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Great idea! ;D
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On that logic. I suggest the Police go out and randomley shoot one in every 4 people. This will cut crime by 25%
No, because only a small minority of people are criminals. However, shooting 25% of criminals would probably result in a 25% reduction in crime..
There in lies your problem in a riot situation it is IMPOSSIBLE to tell who is a criminal and who isn't.. I would be a lot more fearful for my friends and family if the army were involved in this.
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Once the Police have rounded the perpetrators they should put them in the chimp and gorrila cages in all the UK Zoos so that ordinary people can go and ogle them. Feed them on what the animals get, for they are just animals themselves. Let them sleep on straw that they will no doubt soil with their own waste. Leave them without heat or light. Let the public throw stale buns and rotting vegetables at them and laugh at their plight. They'll soon learn! WWW
You've just described the Jeremy Kyle show
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On that logic. I suggest the Police go out and randomley shoot one in every 4 people. This will cut crime by 25%
No, because only a small minority of people are criminals. However, shooting 25% of criminals would probably result in a 25% reduction in crime..
I agree with the sentiment, but dispute the figures.
If the police shot 1% of the rioters, it would reduce crime by 75%, thats the deterrent effect.
Also, I agree with the poster on Oscar, but would go further.
The biggest dip in the respect for authority came when corporal punishment was abolished in schools.
Suddenly there really were no consequences for bad behaviour, and if that is what a child believes then the adult will turn out much worse.
Civilisation and enlightened society is a laudable thing to strive for, but it is also a 'house of cards' if too many are not ready for it!
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I remember back in the 90s... Tony Blair said that there is no longer a class system in Britain...
How wrong he was.
There is now the simplest form of class system Britain's ever had
The haves and the have nots.
Everyone on this forum is in the haves class (no matter how much you all moan about benefits etc, being a have is about more than just having money and possesions).
Sadly the have nots are the ones running around setting fire to things...
It took about 30 years awful politics to get us into this mess, it'll take just as long to try and get out.
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On that logic. I suggest the Police go out and randomley shoot one in every 4 people. This will cut crime by 25%
No, because only a small minority of people are criminals. However, shooting 25% of criminals would probably result in a 25% reduction in crime..
There in lies your problem in a riot situation it is IMPOSSIBLE to tell who is a criminal and who isn't.. I would be a lot more fearful for my friends and family if the army were involved in this.
Shouldn't you be more fearful for the people who have had their homes, jobs and businesses destroyed? Seems to me that you have your priorities wrong - you're more concerned about criminals than decent people?
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On that logic. I suggest the Police go out and randomley shoot one in every 4 people. This will cut crime by 25%
No, because only a small minority of people are criminals. However, shooting 25% of criminals would probably result in a 25% reduction in crime..
I agree with the sentiment, but dispute the figures.
If the police shot 1% of the rioters, it would reduce crime by 75%, thats the deterrent effect.
Also, I agree with the poster on Oscar, but would go further.
The biggest dip in the respect for authority came when corporal punishment was abolished in schools.
Suddenly there really were no consequences for bad behaviour, and if that is what a child believes then the adult will turn out much worse.
Civilisation and enlightened society is a laudable thing to strive for, but it is also a 'house of cards' if too many are not ready for it!
common myth
Society is really no more violent today than it has ever been when the harshest punishments were handed out. http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/sr202/violent.htm (http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/sr202/violent.htm)
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On that logic. I suggest the Police go out and randomley shoot one in every 4 people. This will cut crime by 25%
No, because only a small minority of people are criminals. However, shooting 25% of criminals would probably result in a 25% reduction in crime..
There in lies your problem in a riot situation it is IMPOSSIBLE to tell who is a criminal and who isn't.. I would be a lot more fearful for my friends and family if the army were involved in this.
Shouldn't you be more fearful for the people who have had their homes, jobs and businesses destroyed? Seems to me that you have your priorities wrong - you're more concerned about criminals than decent people?
By even drawing the line between "decent people" and criminals, and indeed by starting a topic called "scum" you are already deeply added to the problem you seem to care so much about.
I care exactly the same for ALL people..
"You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’ and hate your enemy. But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike. If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. If you are kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? (Matthew 5:43-47 )"
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You say that but you hadn't expressed any concern for the victims of the riots until I pointed it out?
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You say that but you hadn't expressed any concern for the victims of the riots until I pointed it out?
By helping those at the bottom we help everyone... if you remove the bottom bricks from a wall the whole thing comes tumbling down, that's what has happened gradually since the 80s.
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B2R are you seriously saying that if an individual came to your home and burnt it to the ground endangering the lives of your family and children then went on to destroy your business by looting.......you'd give them a big hug would you?
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'I care exactly the same for ALL people..'
"You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’ and hate your enemy. But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike. If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. If you are kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? (Matthew 5:43-47 )"
you say 'I care exactly the same for ALL people..'
And I do not, this underclass is a disease that needs curing by force
Oh dear, was this the same god that flooded the earth and brought swarms of locusts etc.... I do not love my enemies and I never will!
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I thought it was written in the bible "an eye for an eye"
Call me a hypocrite but I am only capable of forgiveness when I see true remorse.
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Indeed, these people care not one jot about you or I. They would happily steal from us all and destroy our property. They have absolutely no regard for anyone other than themselves. The usual lefty excuses get trotted out about deprivation - if that is true, why did we spend £180,000,000,000 on welfare last year?
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Fair play there is people out there prepared to speak out against these thugs.
Nice find Angie. :roll:
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From whats been said on face book and the vids being posted Millwall and Palace fans have joined up to get rid of the rioters. I can't post them here for some reason. It seems racist factors of the communities are now getting involved with the excuse"it's for the nation"?
The Bushwackers have been protecting Eltham High St.
It's not as if Millwall fans have never rioted though is it? _))*
I'd never thought I'd see the day.......
"No one likes us.....we don't care" well, maybe everyone does now! :laugh:
Where's the Yids up in Tottenham and the ICF in Hackney?
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I've got to say if I was a rioter faced with Millwall fans running at me I'd drop the plasma and run throwing women and children behind me. As an innocent resident or shop owner I would for once be made up with the football fans being on my side.
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I've got to say if I was a rioter faced with Millwall fans running at me I'd drop the plasma and run throwing women and children behind me. As an innocent resident or shop owner I would for once be made up with the football fans being on my side.
$happy$
http://youtu.be/64OI6dVM9uU (http://youtu.be/64OI6dVM9uU)
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Perhaps Trojan could lend them his 'modified' golf ball? :laugh:
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From the BBC website:
An anonymous police officer in Surrey e-mails: The UK will continue to be under siege from the mindless violence until something changes in the way we police this country. When my granddad was a police officer in the 1940s he was feared by those who broke laws. He acted professionally and upheld the law, but did not have worry about trial by media if used force to restore order. Every use of force by a police officer in the UK has to be documented and justified. Many officers will not use the force necessary to restore order as they fear for their jobs and liberty! The interview with the two teenage girls on Monday shows this really well where they state 'we are showing the police we can do what we want!' The yobs and looters need something to fear [the police] or they will continue their reign of terror on the law abiding community.
$good$
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Perhaps Trojan could lend them his 'modified' golf ball? :laugh:
This all brings a tear to my eye. $uk
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Phillip Johnston in the Telegraph:
When rioters rampaged through the suburbs of Paris six years ago, Nicolas Sarkozy, then France’s interior minister, called them racaille. While this can mean “rabble” or “riff-raff”, it also translates as “scum”.
You cannot imagine a British politician using that term to describe the youths who have turned London into a war zone. Yet it is the word that will have been on the lips of all decent people as they watched – appalled, shocked and ashamed – while the capital and, later, other cities were trashed by elements of their criminally inclined underclass. Epithets like “rabble” or “riff-raff” are too mild for the lawless, feckless, mindless and amoral thugs who forced passers-by to strip naked while they stole their clothes; or who torched a furniture warehouse that had withstood the Blitz; or who ransacked shops across London. What else do you call them?
If ever we wanted proof that Britain has been divided into two nations, then here it was. But hasn’t it always been? You did not need to look far beneath the surface at any time over the past 200 years or more to find people ready to loot and rob and steal. After all, the London mob is hardly a new phenomenon. The word itself was coined in the late 17th century as the city’s population grew and aggressive crowds, fuelled by alcohol and perceived grievance, took to the streets with alarming regularity.
Although there were law enforcement officers – salaried watchmen – to patrol the streets, they were too few to make a difference, or influence bad behaviour decisively. So, in order to counter the mob, the Metropolitan Police was established in 1829 by Sir Robert Peel, and gradually the disorder subsided. While sporadic crowd violence broke out on occasion, it was not until the late 1950s and the Notting Hill race riots that further widespread trouble occurred. Since then, there have been disturbances linked to protests over the poll tax, policing in Brixton, and, most recently, student fees.
Yet the riots we are seeing now are fundamentally different from those that have gone before. They might, ostensibly, have been triggered by the police shooting of Mark Duggan, a notorious gangster, in north London; but they are fuelled by pure greed, by a belief that something can be had for nothing. The usual brakes on such behaviour – either an appreciation that it is wrong, or by the prospect that the culprit will be caught and punished – are largely absent.
For this, we have to thank four decades of politically correct policing, and a gradual breakdown of the informal network of authority figures that once provided an additional element of control over the bad behaviour of young people. Adults are now reluctant, or too scared, to step in and stop things getting out of hand, or to impose a wider moral code – and in any case, they are no longer listened to. Deference to age and authority has been eroded by years of genuflection to the twin gods of multiculturalism and community cohesion.
The police, bludgeoned by criticism for the way they handled the Brixton riots 30 years ago and the Stephen Lawrence murder in 1994, have become more like social workers than upholders of law and order. And the places that have really suffered as a result are the most deprived: they have to bear the brunt of the criminality and the fear, squalor and alienation that accompanies it.
In recent years, a myth has been allowed to grow up – motivated in part by the approach of the Olympic Games – that London is one of the world’s safest big cities. In terms of its murder rate, that may be true. But no one living in the capital is unaware of the existence of a minority ready to descend into lawlessness at the drop of a hat. There has long been a disconnection between this reality and the self-congratulation of police and politicians inspired by dodgy crime statistics and phoney targets: the truth is the capital has far more crime than 40 years ago, and parts of the city are no-go areas for the police.
Part of the problem is that the breakdown of the family (or an unwillingness to form one) has left a generation of feral adolescents without fathers or any adult males to act as role models. Parents rarely know what their children are doing, and exercise little power or authority over them. Instead, their loyalty is to the gang and to its codes, rather than to the prevailing moral orthodoxies of the majority of the population. Low-level criminality is a way of life – as, for some, are drugs, robbery and routine armed violence.
These young people know that if they are caught committing an offence, they are unlikely to be punished, or certainly not as severely as was once the case. If Britain today jailed the same ratio of people relative to the number of the most serious offences – burglary, robbery and violence – as it did in 1954, there would not be 80,000 behind bars, but 300,000. It may well be true, as penal reformers maintain, that there are some people in jail who ought not to be; but by the same token, there are an awful lot who should be who aren’t.
Another big change is the official attitude to crimes against property: they are no longer considered important. Burglaries have a pitifully low clear-up rate. Under the fixed-penalty notice system for shoplifting introduced by the last government, the police are expected to levy a fine of £80 if the items stolen cost less than £200. There was a time when theft was regarded as a serious crime, and it still carries a maximum jail term of seven years on indictment. Yet thieves are now being treated in the same way as motorists whose cars have remained too long in a parking space. To the exasperation of retailers, the deterrents to shoplifting have virtually disappeared over the years. The industrial-scale looting and recreational rioting that have taken place around London are the ultimate expression of this lax attitude.
To find out what has gone wrong, we do not need to delve too deeply into the specific causes of the appalling events of the past few days, or establish commissions and inquiries. We know what has gone wrong. The police lost control of the streets not in Tottenham, last weekend, but many years ago. Arguably, their failure to intervene robustly on Saturday and to let the looters carry on unmolested for hours owed much to the non-confrontational nostrums that have guided the policing of ethnically diverse areas, with disastrous consequences. On this occasion, they let the impression develop that here was a chance to plunder with impunity. Once that had taken a grip across the capital, and elsewhere, it became far more difficult – if not impossible – for the police to regain control.
There will be a temptation to beat ourselves up as a society for not doing enough to address problems faced by these groups, especially the inadequate education and consequent lack of qualifications that makes it hard for them to get jobs, which largely go to immigrant workers from eastern Europe. That should be resisted. Billions of pounds have been spent trying to improve schools and regenerate run-down areas. The suggestion from some Left-wing politicians, such as Ken Livingstone, that the riots were due to the impact of Government spending cuts is grotesque. If anything, the biggest problem has been the creation of a sense of entitlement sustained by an overly generous (and no longer affordable) welfare system, which expects nothing in return for the benefits dispensed.
Mercifully, some of these issues are being addressed by the Government – though not without sustained opposition from those who helped to created the mess in the first place. David Cameron was commendably tough in his rhetoric yesterday, after cutting short his holiday to return to London. The Prime Minister has promised a robust police response and condign punishment for all those involved in the rioting. This is what all decent people wish to see – but it will mean reversing a culture that is now deeply rooted in our national life.
Mr Cameron’s first duty is to keep order and protect property. That is the contract the people have with the state, which prevents us from taking the law into our own hands. That is what policing by consent means. The dreadful events of the past few days have shown how far that contract has broken down.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8691363/London-and-UK-riots-The-long-retreat-of-order.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8691363/London-and-UK-riots-The-long-retreat-of-order.html)
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$good$
Local Communities fighting back - London Riots - Millwall - Support our Police, Justice. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNGCoLh9XXQ#)
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If this happened in Conwy I would without doubt defend my family and my house and woe betide anyone who who came within a 100yds. $walesflag$
Say what you like about vigilante repercussions at this point in time it depends what side of the fence you are on and I'm not on the side of the rioters.
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I don't think a Jury would convict anyone who was defending their property.
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There's hundreds of "football fans" and the general public defending their homes and cities.
Football fans say "feck the police" to protect their local area from London Rioters! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suns434gYaU#)
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If this happened in Conwy I would without doubt defend my family and my house and woe betide anyone who who came within a 100yds. $walesflag$
Say what you like about vigilante repercussions at this point in time it depends what side of the fence you are on and I'm not on the side of the rioters.
Conwy would be easy to defend because of the walls. If rioters managed to get in, they wouldn't get out again. $walesflag$
Some haunting photos of London here. http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/08/london_riots.html (http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/08/london_riots.html)
No23 makes me sad. :'(
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This is a case of ferrel youths I don't think race is an issue for everyone.
Sikh's band together to defend their community against rioters! - Everyone needs to do this!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs_4LxKWoWg#)
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You know it's the following post on facebook that makes you think. This was posted by a girl in Croydon !
"Check on your neighbours particularly the elderly or disabled...they may b too scared to go out for shopping or paying bills etc..help those who are vulnerable".
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The first person to appear before magistrates this morning, Alexis Bailey, 31, of Wye Street, Battersea, south London, was committed to Wood Green Crown Court, along with the majority of others. He pleaded guilty to burglary with intent to steal at Richer Sounds in Southend Road, Croydon on Monday. The BBC's Clive Coleman at Highbury Corner magistrates' court says his case is typical in that the magistrate committed him for sentence at the crown court. The reason for this is the magistrates' bench felt the riot was such an aggravating feature to the burglary that the crown court ought to sentence because they have additional powers. The magistrates felt that they had insufficient powers to sentence for a single count of burglary. They could only sentence for six months whereas that could be up to 10 years at the crown court.
Good. Maximum sentences all round, please. $good$
Roy, in Woodbridge, Suffolk, e-mails: So what does it say about the lack of discipline that everyone says is missing from our society when one of the first people to appear before the courts and pleading guilty to looting is a 31-year-old teacher?
Indeed.
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Roy, in Woodbridge, Suffolk, e-mails: So what does it say about the lack of discipline that everyone says is missing from our society when one of the first people to appear before the courts and pleading guilty to looting is a 31-year-old teacher?
not one of B2R's 'have nots' then!
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this might be worth a try ;D
Football Hooligans (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04clpd7h0b0#)
or perhaps
Constable Savage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO8EpfyCG2Y#)
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You say that but you hadn't expressed any concern for the victims of the riots until I pointed it out?
By helping those at the bottom we help everyone... if you remove the bottom bricks from a wall the whole thing comes tumbling down, that's what has happened gradually since the 80s.
Society has a moral obligation to protect the vulnerable in our country but this lot of scum are chucking the bricks back at the very people who provide the benefits for them.
Chucking bricks and petrol bombs at people could be classed as attempted murder as their aim is to injure or kill someone. Plastic bullets have been mentioned in discussions but in other countries they use the real thing to stop looters, at least they won't do it again then.
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There is an e-petition "No taxpayer should have to contribute to those who have destroyed property, stolen from their community and shown a disregard for the country that provides for them" on the government's web site http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk (http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk). This is hoping to remove benefits from anyone convicted of being involved in the riots,looting or related antisocial behaviour. If it gets 100,000 signatures it gets presented to parliament for a vote. Currently it has achieved 78,000 signatures. Not surprisingly the e-petition website is taking rather a lot of hits at the moment.
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Just tried looking at that, seems very busy, should be a very popular petition that!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14474429 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14474429)
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I hope it gets 1,000,000 signatures. The website is currently overloaded with everyone trying to sign it.
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The Facebook page is now up to 958,832 members:
"Supporting the Met Police against the London rioters"
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Supporting-the-Met-Police-against-the-London-rioters/152937041453243 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Supporting-the-Met-Police-against-the-London-rioters/152937041453243)
Please consider joining it if you haven't already done so.
Good to see the decent people of this country supporting the police.
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There is an e-petition "No taxpayer should have to contribute to those who have destroyed property, stolen from their community and shown a disregard for the country that provides for them" on the government's web site http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk (http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk). This is hoping to remove benefits from anyone convicted of being involved in the riots,looting or related antisocial behaviour. If it gets 100,000 signatures it gets presented to parliament for a vote. Currently it has achieved 78,000 signatures. Not surprisingly the e-petition website is taking rather a lot of hits at the moment.
That's a great idea... let's find people who are clearly prepared to be violent and steal and take ALL of their money from them.. I'm sure if you do that their violence and stealing habits will decrease dramaticly _))*
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The Facebook page is now up to 958,832 members:
"Supporting the Met Police against the London rioters"
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Supporting-the-Met-Police-against-the-London-rioters/152937041453243 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Supporting-the-Met-Police-against-the-London-rioters/152937041453243)
Please consider joining it if you haven't already done so.
Good to see the decent people of this country supporting the police.
Yep clicking a button that says 'like' on a facebook page is absolute proof that you are a decent person $good$
This page will make a wealth of differece I'm quite sure D)
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You say that but you hadn't expressed any concern for the victims of the riots until I pointed it out?
By helping those at the bottom we help everyone... if you remove the bottom bricks from a wall the whole thing comes tumbling down, that's what has happened gradually since the 80s.
Society has a moral obligation to protect the vulnerable in our country but this lot of scum are chucking the bricks back at the very people who provide the benefits for them.
Chucking bricks and petrol bombs at people could be classed as attempted murder as their aim is to injure or kill someone. Plastic bullets have been mentioned in discussions but in other countries they use the real thing to stop looters, at least they won't do it again then.
Just to clarify, you think it's ok to shoot somebody dead for running out of a shop with a TV?
Because if that's the case, we can't possibly have a sensible discussion can we?
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Clarification from Fester.
Yes. An unequivocal YES, and unambiguous YES... shoot them dead..
Just enough of them to set an example to the rest... it will only be a couple of worthless ones, just enough to scare and deter the rest.
If they cannot respect authority, let them FEAR it.... it is better than having contempt for it.
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Just to clarify, you think it's ok to shoot somebody dead for running out of a shop with a TV?
Because if that's the case, we can't possibly have a sensible discussion can we?
seems very reasonable to me, society needs cleansing of these types, if you want to feel sorry for those types thats up to you, I never will.
I've just signed the petition, here's the link
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/7337 (http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/7337)
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Six Cops Stop 40 Youths Ransacking Stores
A police officer has described how he and just five colleagues managed to stop a gang of around 40 youths looting a shopping park.
Pc Gordon Murphy, 30, and his fellow policeman had just two shields to protect them against a mob throwing missiles and trying to target the stores, in Catford, south-east London.
The officer, who lives in the area, said he and his colleagues charged at the hooded youngsters - despite them being so few in their number - as they tried to scare them off on Monday night.
He said: "We were able to create a small barrier at the end of the retail park", which is home to Currys, PC World, Harveys, Comet and a CarpetRight.
The father-of-one added: "As darkness fell, the young people started attacking - they were throwing bricks and bottles at us.
"There were two of us with small shields to protect other police officers and the property. Once they had thrown missiles at us they then rushed directly towards us, shouting and screaming."
"Their intention was to run at us mob-handed to frighten us to run away. Don't get me wrong, it did cross our minds, but I am a local police officer, I work in the Safer Neighbourhood Team.
"When you police the local area, you get to know people, you do get quite protective of your area and have a pride in it."
Pc Murphy went on: "We decided, as they ran at us, to rush back at them, with only six officers running back at 40. The mad thing is, they all ran back so we didn't even have to make contact with them. We just showed a show of strength, with our shields and our batons drawn, shouting as loud as we could: 'get back' and a few other war cries and the kids ran back across the road and continued throwing things at us."
Mr Murphy said he felt "proud" that he had managed to keep the buildings safe and added that he and a few others suffered minor injuries during the clash.
The small group protected the area on their own for about half an hour before backup could come and disperse the youths.
Team manager at Currys, Ridwan Haibe, said: "They did a fantastic job. We really appreciate the service that they have done for us."
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/six-cops-stop-40-youths-ransacking-stores-014442765.html (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/six-cops-stop-40-youths-ransacking-stores-014442765.html)
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North Wales Police vans parked up in Regent Street, London (from Oscars blog):
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I can see the scene in the not too distant future of our streets being patrolled by vigilantes and I do not fancy the chances of the thugs and scum then. There will be no polite arrests just a severe beating that thuggy will remember for the rest of his life. WWW
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I blame that dementia ridden old crone baroness Thatcher she created a society that was full of I’m all right jacks, her billionaire buddies imported immigrants to flood the labour market with monkeys who would work for peanuts she encouraged Rackmen style landlords who got rich quick by filling rundown properties, these people were no better than the greedy thugs looting for gain today,
Then we had premier Blair who fuelled the fire with his backhanded policies so what chance has society got when we have lying cheating scum running the country most of the MPs have looted the country with claims for TVs and the like so how can this PM stand their pretending he is whiter than white oh what good role models they are
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If we look at history, of course, we'll see that large scale disorder takes place on a semi regular basis in the UK, going back to time immemorial. If we look at just one, the Gordon Riots of 1780 resulted in 285 people being shot by soldiers in central London.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_riots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_riots)
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I blame that dementia ridden old crone baroness Thatcher she created a society that was full of I’m all right jacks, her billionaire buddies imported immigrants to flood the labour market with monkeys who would work for peanuts she encouraged Rackmen style landlords who got rich quick by filling rundown properties, these people were no better than the greedy thugs looting for gain today,
Then we had premier Blair who fuelled the fire with his backhanded policies so what chance has society got when we have lying cheating scum running the country most of the MPs have looted the country with claims for TVs and the like so how can this PM stand their pretending he is whiter than white oh what good role models they are
Absolutely
These lyrics from young folkster Frank Turner, written a couple of years ago sum it up very well
We're all wondering how we ended up so scared;
We spent ten long years teaching our kids not to care
And that "there's no such thing as society" anyway,
And all the rich folks act surprised
When all sense of community dies,
But you just closed your eyes to the other side
Of all the things that she did.
Thatcher f****d the kids.
More lyrics: http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/f/frank_turner/#share (http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/f/frank_turner/#share)
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I blame that dementia ridden old crone baroness Thatcher she created a society that was full of I’m all right jacks, her billionaire buddies imported immigrants to flood the labour market with monkeys who would work for peanuts she encouraged Rackmen style landlords who got rich quick by filling rundown properties, these people were no better than the greedy thugs looting for gain today,
Then we had premier Blair who fuelled the fire with his backhanded policies so what chance has society got when we have lying cheating scum running the country most of the MPs have looted the country with claims for TVs and the like so how can this PM stand their pretending he is whiter than white oh what good role models they are
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People will struggle to pay for heating and lighting this winter because of the enormous profits been demanded by utility companies, this is because the old crone saw fit to put all our essential utilities up for grabs to pave way for increased bank balances for the upper crust!! Essential utilities are fast becoming a luxury.
She decimated our manufacturing industry, she brought in the expensive DLA and Incapacity benefit to hid the total jobless in the UK she led an onslaught on our mining communities, thank god she was ousted before she had taken the UK back to the dark days of sweat shops of the 1800s
Kids learn from their peers so this does not give us much hope for the future as the people they look up to are nothing but people on the take
Our Schools were promised one off cash sums to self Govern head teacher became business managers Kids that did not fit into the box were told we can’t educate you because you are detrimental to our league tables
Big society my A**
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Photoshop on the case _))*
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Question time on tonight.... would be nice to have someone that isn't afraid to talk sense, but I would imagine it will be a one way mob, very much like the BNP "special"
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Yes they should have me on Question time, but what have the BNP got to do with it? most of the victims I've seen on the tv have been hard working Asians, who have spent decades working their way up from nothing only to lose it at the hands of mindless cretins.
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Question time on tonight.... would be nice to have someone that isn't afraid to talk sense, but I would imagine it will be a one way mob, very much like the BNP "special"
Indeed, B2R... When Nick Griffin appeared on Queston Time it was a joke, he was attacked and vilified all night.
Irrespective of whether you like the BNP or not, the guy was never allowed to answer a question and I have no idea how he kept his cool under that degree of provocation.
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I wonder if Mr. Cameron regrets making the statement we should hug the hoodies lol
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I wonder if Mr. Cameron regrets making the statement we should hug the hoodies lol
probably! I was thinking that just the other day!
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I was just reading i and looking through the list of people appearing in Court for offences related to the riots in London. They include a Journalism student, Accountancy Student, Civil Engineering student, Estate Agent, Youth Worker, Trainee Youth Worker, Law Student.
I'm wondering if Born2Run would regard these people as 'Have Nots'? :roll:
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I was just reading i and looking through the list of people appearing in Court for offences related to the riots in London. They include a Journalism student, Accountancy Student, Civil Engineering student, Estate Agent, Youth Worker, Trainee Youth Worker, Law Student.
I'm wondering if Born2Run would regard these people as 'Have Nots'? :roll:
Or Feral youth?
As I was saying earlier, how many have been in trouble with the law before?
Not many you will find.
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Stephen French, a former gangster, remembers it well:
"The main thing that we were lacking back then was opportunity, direction and purpose... If you've no purpose you're living a meaningless existence - if you're leading a meaningless existence... there's only one thing that will fill that void and it usually involves violence. Crime and violence."
The Toxteth riots of July 1981
seems not much has changed
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Thing is, there's lots of people that have had a hard upbringing but don't behave like that...
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Theres hard and theres hard
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They can afford Blackberries?
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Dave I am not politically motivated in any way my motto in life is from birth I am walking a long road to death and if I can help somebody along the way it makes my journey brighter
But you seem to have been like the Muslims indoctrinate by misguided Tory values F*** you jack I’m ok not a nice way to go through life
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Question time on tonight.... would be nice to have someone that isn't afraid to talk sense, but I would imagine it will be a one way mob, very much like the BNP "special"
Indeed, B2R... When Nick Griffin appeared on Queston Time it was a joke, he was attacked and vilified all night.
Irrespective of whether you like the BNP or not, the guy was never allowed to answer a question and I have no idea how he kept his cool under that degree of provocation.
^^^^ This!!! For once Fester and I agree on something in politics lol ... I hate the BNP but that was a circus! I felt ashamed to think of myself as a fair minded socialist after that one sided brutal attack. No way could that ever be considered fair political contest. They might as well have tarred and feathered him
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I was just reading i and looking through the list of people appearing in Court for offences related to the riots in London. They include a Journalism student, Accountancy Student, Civil Engineering student, Estate Agent, Youth Worker, Trainee Youth Worker, Law Student.
I'm wondering if Born2Run would regard these people as 'Have Nots'? :roll:
Yes, very good $good$
It's very easy to cherry pick anything out of a list to help make your point!
I said the reason it started was because of the social identity and disregard of the "have nots" I didn't say everyone involved was! Opportunists are everywhere... In fact a few people have (good, well educated people) have said to me that burning and violence was completely out of order but they woudn't have hesitated jumping in and nicking some expensive equipment from a big store if they could get away with it
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The best debate I've heard and seen was the Richard Bacon Young Persons' Question Time on BBC3 last night. $good$
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Dave I am not politically motivated in any way my motto in life is from birth I am walking a long road to death and if I can help somebody along the way it makes my journey brighter
But you seem to have been like the Muslims indoctrinate by misguided Tory values F*** you jack I’m ok not a nice way to go through life
I seem to be missing your point - what do Muslims have to do with it?
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Conwy CBC has submitted a tender to central Government to supply accommodation to any rioters who find themselves homeless.
They stated they had vast experience of dealing with feral scum from all parts of the UK and had been very successful in integrating them into the local communities in Conwy; statistics from the North Wales police showed that Conwy had the lowest crime rate in the UK proving this earlier venture had been a total success.
It was also concerned about the vast amount of money the government would spend bringing Bill Bratton to the UK to advise on the riots so Mr Ken Finch has offered his services to advise the Government how he has achieved this, making Conwy a model for the rest of society
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Dave I am not politically motivated in any way my motto in life is from birth I am walking a long road to death and if I can help somebody along the way it makes my journey brighter
But you seem to have been like the Muslims indoctrinate by misguided Tory values F*** you jack I’m ok not a nice way to go through life
I seem to be missing your point - what do Muslims have to do with it?
I apologise if I have offended any of our Muslim Brothers by putting them in the same class as politicians
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Conwy CBC has submitted a tender to central Government to supply accommodation to any rioters who find themselves homeless.
They stated they had vast experience of dealing with feral scum from all parts of the UK and had been very successful in integrating them into the local communities in Conwy; statistics from the North Wales police showed that Conwy had the lowest crime rate in the UK proving this earlier venture had been a total success.
It was also concerned about the vast amount of money the government would spend bringing Bill Bratton to the UK to advise on the riots so Mr Ken Finch has offered his services to advise the Government how he has achieved this, making Conwy a model for the rest of society
Is this supposed to be a joke CRD because I hope it's not serious. These scum have deliberately made themselves homeless by breaking their tenancy agreement and it is up to them to look for alternative housing not to have CCBC or any one else pampering to their needs. While I'm at it I've noticed that some of the scum in Court have surnames that don't appear British so I hope that if they were born outside the UK then the Courts will seek deportation orders on the individual after they have served a prison sentance.
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It is a joke Hugo! But it could be true the amount of problem families that Conwy seem to welcome and find accommodation is out of hand
Colwyn Bay is a dump because of these transients I have been a resident of Rhos for the past 52 years and the community spirit used to be of the highest order, but over the last few years we are seeing an overspill from the Bay all these people bring to the community is aggression and drugs they have no morals or respect the type that would mug their Granny’s for their pension.
Unless Wales takes a stand and stops the rot we could end up like England
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Absolutely right, CRD!
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I don't believe it, but I'm agreeing with CRD :o :o :laugh:
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Here here Crd. I'd love to know the ratio of people who are Welsh to those who have moved to the area attending our courts. $walesflag$
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It is a joke Hugo! But it could be true the amount of problem families that Conwy seem to welcome and find accommodation is out of hand
Colwyn Bay is a dump because of these transients I have been a resident of Rhos for the past 52 years and the community spirit used to be of the highest order, but over the last few years we are seeing an overspill from the Bay all these people bring to the community is aggression and drugs they have no morals or respect the type that would mug their Granny’s for their pension.
Unless Wales takes a stand and stops the rot we could end up like England
You had me going there Crd because the area has become a magnet for the dross of society and nothing surprises me nowadays. Angie has a valid question there regarding the ratio of people who are local to those who have moved to the area attending our Courts. Could we find out under the freedom of information act I wonder?
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Here here Crd. I'd love to know the ratio of people who are Welsh to those who have moved to the area attending our courts. $walesflag$
I am guessing from what I read in the paper it would be about 70/30 in favour of the transients
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Here here Crd. I'd love to know the ratio of people who are Welsh to those who have moved to the area attending our courts. $walesflag$
I am guessing from what I read in the paper it would be about 70/30 in favour of the transients
Yes that's what I was thinking Crd. Maybe we could find out under the FOI act......Now who do we know who familiar with the process Hmmm ?{}? ;D
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You should seek such information from:
Her Majesty's Courts and Tribunals Service
102 Petty France
London SW1H 9AJ
0845 456 8770
Making a freedom of information request
If you are a member of the public seeking guidance on how to submit a freedom of information request please go to Directgov.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Yourrightsandresponsibilities/Freedomofinformationanddataprotection/DG_4003239 (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Yourrightsandresponsibilities/Freedomofinformationanddataprotection/DG_4003239)
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Thanks Yorkie......Will they have the nationality of offenders? Or just where they lived at the time of the offence?
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Thanks Yorkie......Will they have the nationality of offenders? Or just where they lived at the time of the offence?
I don't know the answer to that but you should ask your question detailing all the different criteria you wish to be answered.
Rather than writing direct you can do this through the web site "What do they know" at http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/ (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/) either using your own name or an alias. The information then becomes available to anyone. If you search for Llandudno and Conwy you will be able to see what questions have been asked in the past. ££$
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I'll have a look at that later, thanks Yorkie ;D
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Just had an e-mail with this link
Britain is a riot - 5 Translation(s) | dotSUB (http://dotsub.com/view/6474921d-8943-443b-9128-de62aa3b3e54)
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Just had an e-mail with this link
Britain is a riot - 5 Translation(s) | dotSUB (http://dotsub.com/view/6474921d-8943-443b-9128-de62aa3b3e54)
I like Pat Condell. $good$
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This article most definitely belongs in the category of 'Scum'
I am totally lost for words when I read it...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-14878624 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-14878624)
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This was interesting...
One in four people charged over the riots in English cities last month had committed more than 10 previous offences, figures show.
Three-quarters had a previous caution or conviction, Ministry of Justice (MoJ) figures show, and those with a criminal record averaged 15 offences.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14926322 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14926322)