Three Towns Forum

The Local => Local News & Discussion => Topic started by: DaveR on May 20, 2011, 08:51:14 pm

Title: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: DaveR on May 20, 2011, 08:51:14 pm
The decline of the High Street in recent years has caused much concern locally. In both Llandudno and Colwyn Bay, there are now large numbers of empty shop units, some of which have been vacant for several years. Undoubtedly, the high levels of both Rent and Business Rates are the most significant factor in this - opening a small shop on Mostyn Street, Llandudno, could mean a yearly outlay of nearly £70,000 in just Rent & Rates.The smaller Chains that used to inhabit these shops are slowly disappearing as more and more sales move online.  Is it simply a matter of waiting for Landlords to eventually give in and lower their rents significantly or can more be done?

Everyone agrees that there should be more independent, local businesses on the High Street but how many of them can afford to make the gamble of moving from a side street to the High Street? Should there be a form of enhanced Business Rate Relief for independent businesses taking a High Street shop? Or do we need to look at other uses for these premises, more cafes maybe?

Tell us what you think.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: norman08 on May 20, 2011, 09:19:06 pm
 and there goes another one  j d sports moving to the park
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Michael on May 20, 2011, 09:27:10 pm
My contribution is only negative, I'm afraid. I would say no more cafes, there are enough but not too many already. Not much help am I
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: DaveR on May 20, 2011, 09:31:33 pm
I think there is more bad news to come, to be honest. Next Clearance are closing in July when their lease expires. The lease on Burtons corner is available. Perhaps most worryingly of all, HMV's financial problems mean they are very likely to close over a hundred of their stores.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Ian on May 21, 2011, 08:06:32 am
Quote
I think there is more bad news to come, to be honest.

Vince Cable supports that view. In effect, he's just been saying that the trouble we're all in is not simply to do with the banks' mishandling of the economy, but also the entire globally linked economy, where the two strongest emerging nations - China and India - are producing much better stuff for much less, and it may only be a matter of time before they accomplish that with the markets as well.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: wrex on May 21, 2011, 08:41:43 am
 :( Was there not talk of the Town council paying a town manager too help with all these problems[of course just talk].No matter how much the blame Parc Llandudno brigade go on ,if we did not have the Parc Bangor would be miles ahead now,i must admit i have not been into the center since they rebuilt the old Wellfield site i do go to Dunhelm mill,T K Maxx and Matalan quite often on the outskirts so i do think Bangor is ahead of us so Llandudno needs to keep up.Every town center has lots of empty shops which can not be blamed on Llandudno;s Parc Llandudno There is no evidence that if  we had not kept up with Bangor ,Llandudno town center would still be full,i think Gwynedd shoppers would not bother passing Bangor without Parc Llandudno. Z**
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: DaveR on May 21, 2011, 09:25:18 am
Is it the case that without Parc Llandudno, Mostyn Street would have fewer empty shops? Almost certainly. But that is not to say that Parc Llandudno is a bad thing, many of the units provide the sheer square footage that is simply not available on Mostyn Street. What's perhaps more pertinent is that the cost per square footage is actually cheaper on Parc Llandudno than most of Mostyn Street. If the Landlords would just admit defeat and lower their rents (coupled with some sort of enhanced Business Rate Relief), then we could see a real resurgence in the family owned, independent businesses along Mostyn Street, with most of the larger chains being based in Parc Llandudno.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Sara on May 21, 2011, 07:47:57 pm
Mothercare in the Victoria Centre could be under threat. The retailer is planning to close approx 110 high street stores so it can concentrate on out-of-town centres.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Fester on May 22, 2011, 12:19:39 am
Is it the case that without Parc Llandudno, Mostyn Street would have fewer empty shops? Almost certainly. But that is not to say that Parc Llandudno is a bad thing, many of the units provide the sheer square footage that is simply not available on Mostyn Street. What's perhaps more pertinent is that the cost per square footage is actually cheaper on Parc Llandudno than most of Mostyn Street. If the Landlords would just admit defeat and lower their rents (coupled with some sort of enhanced Business Rate Relief), then we could see a real resurgence in the family owned, independent businesses along Mostyn Street, with most of the larger chains being based in Parc Llandudno.

I agree (almost) entirely.
My belief is that exhorbitant rents and rates are a huge deterrent to any new business venture, (coupled with the impossible barriers to borrowing money) so I fear there are many more closures to come.
However, if you have a good idea, good offer and sensible pricing, people will still spend money with you.
The world has changed, and so has the 'divine right' to credit. You must have a sensible business proposal to get your hands on the capital required.
My question on this subject is, is there any other seaside town that is tackling this subject properly and making progress?
Or are we seeing a chronic decline that just happens to be happening to Llandudno, like every other town?
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: wrex on May 22, 2011, 11:44:32 am
 :(With the amount of shops empty and some have been empty for years there seems like no hurry  by any of the landlords to do buisness,there has to be some tax dodge,or relief for these conglomerates to be happy to see their properties empty for years even in the case of Boots and spending thousands on scaffolding alone looking after them. Z**
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: suepp on May 22, 2011, 12:36:08 pm
Maybe new ventures should aim at holiday makers visiting shops rather than people who shop for the sake of shopping. These are probably in declining numbers -who see Llandudno as a place to go shopping and  have never been near the Orme.

Upper Mostyn street is looking good these days with the addition of Listers and the Deli
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: DaveR on May 22, 2011, 07:09:39 pm
http://www.reimagineyourhighstreet.org/ (http://www.reimagineyourhighstreet.org/)

"Reimagine your High Street is the antidote to Clone Town Britain. Through short workshops or our long-term programme we work with residents, businesses and local government to create town centres that are sustainable community hubs, where people go to meet each other, not just to shop."
Title: New Irish bar opening soon??!
Post by: silv on August 18, 2011, 10:19:31 am
https://www.facebook.com/pages/New-Irish-Bar-Opening-in-Llandudno/117995184964218 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/New-Irish-Bar-Opening-in-Llandudno/117995184964218)
Title: Re: New Irish bar opening soon??!
Post by: DaveR on August 18, 2011, 10:36:08 am
In Cooneys, I believe...  ;)
Title: Re: New Irish bar opening soon??!
Post by: Bri Roberts on August 18, 2011, 11:05:37 am
and not the Parade?
Title: Re: New Irish bar opening soon??!
Post by: wrex on August 18, 2011, 06:00:25 pm
 It has to be the parade but i don;t think they have done much to it, no big money spent.
Title: Re: New Irish bar opening soon??!
Post by: DaveR on August 18, 2011, 08:57:23 pm
I initially thought it was the Parade, but was told recently it was Cooneys. We shall see.
Title: Re: New Irish bar opening soon??!
Post by: DaveR on August 26, 2011, 11:01:43 am
I initially thought it was the Parade, but was told recently it was Cooneys. We shall see.
Cooney's Irish Bar will be opening next Wednesday. Cooneys is having 'a full make-over, with a new menu and new entertainment'.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: wrex on November 04, 2011, 03:06:24 pm
 A quality store like Bettys in Harrogate or many i have seen in places like Keswick would make a fortune in Llandudno but there seems to be no local buissness people prepared to invest in quality when it comes to tearooms and gift shops, now most people travel on this forum and we all love looking in Harrods, or visiting Bettys in Harrogate both World famous and im certain something along those lines would be a gold mine in Llandudno, quaility. What reasons do you think the local investors have never gone for this concept ?.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: DaveR on November 04, 2011, 05:10:42 pm
A quality store like Bettys in Harrogate or many i have seen in places like Keswick would make a fortune in Llandudno but there seems to be no local buissness people prepared to invest in quality when it comes to tearooms and gift shops, now most people travel on this forum and we all love looking in Harrods, or visiting Bettys in Harrogate both World famous and im certain something along those lines would be a gold mine in Llandudno, quaility. What reasons do you think the local investors have never gone for this concept ?.
Well, people like the Hambone invested a fair bit in their new cafe/restaurant. You're right, though, we don't seem to have too many heavy hitters prepared to put up significant amounts of money to set up a truly outstanding business. Lack of suitable properties is also a bit of a problem.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Ian48 on November 04, 2011, 09:59:55 pm
I think probably part of the reason for that is the main demographic that visits Llandudno. Many of them are pensioners from the North West and the Potteries who are on tight budgets. They have money to spend in Billy Lal etc, but not somewhere like Betty's or Harrods.

Llandudno should really market itself at a higher end market as it could make a killing! The hotels etc should also be encouraged to improve themselves. I really think fewer hotels and better quality is the way to go. There are far too many large hotels chasing a fairly poor demographic, hence cheap, poor quality hotels (having a rather moribund hospitality assoc doesn't help).

Right now, we have the Local Plan coming in which will protect a large area of hotels in Llandudno from other developments and I think this is wrong. If we take a case a few years ago, the Ormescliffe hoped to turn itself into high-quality apartments, but this was refused. I fail to see why, as rather have good quality housing than mediocre hotels that are never full.

If we look at Scarborough, they took the decision a few years ago to go for quality rather than quantity and have reaped the benefits. We should be attracting weekenders from the cities and foreign tourists who have money to spend and high quality shops will follow. Look at a hotel like Escape and how well that is doing.

I am sure I may sound a snob, but I'm convinced that for the future of the town, it needs to up its quality factor. It has the architecture, the scenery and the countryside and could do so, so well....if only it was given a bigger boost.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: wrex on November 04, 2011, 11:39:38 pm
Im no expert and im sure a lot of what you say is true ,as for the lack of property i think the empty units next to Mr Dickens chippy in St Goerges place with its veranda;s, next to the St Georges hotel would be perfect. Z**
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: DaveR on November 05, 2011, 03:38:32 pm
Im no expert and im sure a lot of what you say is true ,as for the lack of property i think the empty units next to Mr Dickens chippy in St Goerges place with its veranda;s, next to the St Georges hotel would be perfect. Z**
Bit small, Wrex.  ;)
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Jack on November 05, 2011, 03:43:55 pm
Llandudno should really market itself at a higher end market as it could make a killing! The hotels etc should also be encouraged to improve themselves. I really think fewer hotels and better quality is the way to go. There are far too many large hotels chasing a fairly poor demographic, hence cheap, poor quality hotels (having a rather moribund hospitality assoc doesn't help).

Right now, we have the Local Plan coming in which will protect a large area of hotels in Llandudno from other developments and I think this is wrong. If we take a case a few years ago, the Ormescliffe hoped to turn itself into high-quality apartments, but this was refused. I fail to see why, as rather have good quality housing than mediocre hotels that are never full.


One side effect of having fewer hotels but of a higher quality is what happens to the smaller guesthouses and b&bs that would inevitably close.  These properties don't readily lend themselves to family homes as they are too big, have no gardens and often no off road parking.  Therefore as has already happened in some parts of town the old guest houses are turned in to flats and flatlets and homes in multiple occupation.  Of course some of these are of high quality and the owners of these are to be applauded but very many aren't and are rented out to an undesirable element, many unemployed, some with drink and drug problems etc etc and before you know it you have another Rhyl.  Not everyone can afford and wants to pay top end prices, there needs to be a wide range of accomodation types for Llandudno to thrive from self catering right through to 5*.  In fact it has always been a criticism that although there is a conference centre there is no 5* hotel attatched to it to attract the biggest and best conferences.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Yorkie on November 05, 2011, 04:15:09 pm
Yet again in a comment to this Forum we see that word "undesirables"!

NO ONE IS NESSECCERILY IN THE POSITION THEY ARE IN DUE TO THEIR OWN FAULT!  AND THERE IS NO NEED TO REFER TO PEOPLE WITH DRUG OR ALCOHOL OR HOMELESS PROBLEMS IN SUCH A MANNER.

In this country there are, even in this town and probably in your street, those who have such problems and maybe if lady luck had not smiled on you, you could be one of them yourself.   
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: TELL on November 05, 2011, 04:46:49 pm
They may not be undesiable to you Yorkie, but they are to a lot of us. Just typing in caps does not make it correct.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Merddin Emrys on November 05, 2011, 04:52:53 pm
'PEOPLE WITH DRUG OR ALCOHOL OR HOMELESS'

That fits with my idea of 'undesirable'  also these 'anti capitalists' fit in with undesirable too!

 May well not be their fault and I wish them a speedy recovery but I do not want them living near me.

Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Jack on November 05, 2011, 05:00:26 pm


In this country there are, even in this town and probably in your street, those who have such problems and maybe if lady luck had not smiled on you, you could be one of them yourself.

You are right Yorkie, my street is full of them, in my opinion they are not desirable neighbours thus are 'undesirable'.  Living day to day with the noise, abuse and anti-social behaviour grinds hard working, law abiding citizens like myself down.  When I bought the house the neighbouring property was a prosperous guest house, it has since been sold and badly converted into flats, not a day passes by that myself, wife and kids are not affected in some way or another.  My neighbours do have drug and drink issues and I find them undesirable, just to clarify.

Note to administrators, I apologise as this has nothing to do with 'Reviving the High Street' thread  :(
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: TELL on November 05, 2011, 05:26:57 pm
"anti capitalists' fit in with undesirable too".
Merddin, if that was intended in response to my comment to Yorkie, it is very clever!
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Merddin Emrys on November 05, 2011, 05:29:51 pm
"anti capitalists' fit in with undesirable too".
Merddin, if that was intended in response to my comment to Yorkie, it is very clever!

 ;D
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: DaveR on November 05, 2011, 05:31:20 pm
Yet again in a comment to this Forum we see that word "undesirables"!

NO ONE IS NESSECCERILY IN THE POSITION THEY ARE IN DUE TO THEIR OWN FAULT!  AND THERE IS NO NEED TO REFER TO PEOPLE WITH DRUG OR ALCOHOL OR HOMELESS PROBLEMS IN SUCH A MANNER.

In this country there are, even in this town and probably in your street, those who have such problems and maybe if lady luck had not smiled on you, you could be one of them yourself.
I'm struggling to see how it can be the fault of anyone else if someone has a drug problem? Everyone has a choice whether or not to use drugs that first time. Personal responsibility and all that.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Pendragon on November 05, 2011, 06:14:23 pm
In my opinion having known and spoken to various people with issues concerning drug abuse, in the majority of cases with a few exceptions the blame can be firmly left at the feet of another person.  Drugs and especially class A drugs are often used for the first time as an escape from the everyday hell they face or have faced during their lives.  Once you get that buzz and the feeling of peace it makes it a lot harder to crash land back into reality.  Not forgetting drugs such as Heroin, Smack, Crack and Cocaine are incredibly addictive, these type of drugs consume your whole being and any shred of will power left is drained.  I am lucky as I am strong minded person but I will say this given the circumstances (which I don't need to speak of on here) if my will was not so resilient I kid you not and I mean this I could quite easily have turned to class A drugs or alcohol.  I shouldn't say this but the only drug that used to calm me down was cannabis and I'm not talking the dangerous hybrid skunk that's around now I'm saying just a bit of pot  :roll: 
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Yorkie on November 05, 2011, 07:55:41 pm
I'm struggling to see how it can be the fault of anyone else if someone has a drug problem? Everyone has a choice whether or not to use drugs that first time. Personal responsibility and all that.

I think Pendragon sums one particular aspect of getting hooked very admirably.  Then there are the "pushers" who pursuade kids to "try one" instead of a cigarette!.  Some, who once they have started going downhill, just cannot stop.  The expert is the one who has been there, not the one who has never experienced it.   Such can count themselves lucky!   
££$
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: DaveR on November 05, 2011, 08:19:34 pm
I don't think there's many people on here who haven't been offered drugs at some point, I know I certainly have. Being as my brain is my second favourite organ, I didnt want to wreck it and naturally refused. Everyone else has the same choice.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Pendragon on November 05, 2011, 08:41:04 pm
I can't help it DaveR what's your first favourite then  _))*
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Merddin Emrys on November 05, 2011, 11:17:00 pm
 ;D
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: DaveR on November 05, 2011, 11:36:03 pm
I can't help it DaveR what's your first favourite then  _))*
I think Mr. M.E. has already answered for me...  :laugh:
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Pendragon on November 05, 2011, 11:53:38 pm
;D
Fair play ME that's exactly what I thought  _))*
Title: Re: New Irish bar opening soon??!
Post by: born2run on November 17, 2011, 08:29:30 pm
I haven't actually been in since the new change - but is their anything remotely Irish about it?
Doesn't look like it to me.
Title: Re: New Irish bar opening soon??!
Post by: wrex on November 17, 2011, 09:33:20 pm
 ;D Mick. _))*
Title: Re: New Irish bar opening soon??!
Post by: born2run on November 17, 2011, 10:11:42 pm
He doesn't work all the time though  :P

I was suprised to see them having a northern soul disco on a Saturday  ???

Would have thought the Dublines, Tones type thing would have been more apt!
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: dingo20 on May 16, 2012, 04:22:17 pm
Why don't Conwy council introduce free rates on new shops opening on the high street. I've seen it working in ther part of the country quite successfully?
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: viv on August 30, 2012, 10:49:48 pm
During a recession the businesses that survive are those that provide a quality product with excellent customer service because people want true value for their money in getting a product that will last.  Is this what you find in Llandudno?

When the new Conference Centre was built several years ago now (In the days of the Tourist Board) there was a call for a new 5* Hotel to cater for upmarket guests.  However it was agreed that it would then take business away from existing hotels. So grants were made available to Hotels to upgrade. Most of the Hotels decided that they were not prepared to match the grants as they could not be guaranteed that their investment would enhance their businesses.  They chose instead to stick with the Turkey and Tinsel Brigade via the pensioners' coach parties as they felt that these contracts were reliable. But as a previous poster has said, these demographics do not benefit the town as the coaches whisk them off to other areas and the hotels also provide their own entertainment.  Meanwhile the younger people of the town and young family visitors are poorly catered for, and they are the ones who spend. For once you can't blame the council for that - just people who like to cling to the past.  The younger ones go out of town to the Parc to spend their money - or even further afield.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: wrex on August 31, 2012, 06:59:46 am
This is why i agreed with Travelodge,they always have offers so people decide thats a good offer lets have a break,as at the moment Llandudno has;nt one so people go where the hotels are,its all about bringing in the trade and we are failing.CCBC treat coach companies poorly,sending them on wastless journeys around the town when there maybe only ten in for the day,instead of letting them stay on Broadway.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Yorkie on August 31, 2012, 08:02:32 am
You're a bit out on the coach numbers Wrex.   We can get over 120 coaches a day, especially around Bank Holidays.  If you give licence to use the Mostyn Broadway park on some days, you have to let it be used for ALL days, and that just won't work.   

 Z**
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: DaveR on August 31, 2012, 08:44:44 am
I go past the Coach Park nearly every day. It's usually nearly empty. Yesterday, there was a grand total of 1 coach in at 3pm.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Yorkie on August 31, 2012, 10:59:03 am
I go past the Coach Park nearly every day. It's usually nearly empty. Yesterday, there was a grand total of 1 coach in at 3pm.

I'm not surprised.  Coaches have to park at the coach park in Builder Street after dropping off their passengers in Mostyn Broadway.  They then start picking up at Mostyn Broadway from about 3.30 onwards and it can get a bit crowded from then on.   Drop off times are from about 10.00 until lunchtime with the peak from 10.30 to 12.30 so there will always be quiet times when the park is little utilised.  I speak from first hand experience of this facility.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Blongb on September 05, 2012, 10:46:54 am
During a recession the businesses that survive are those that provide a quality product with excellent customer service because people want true value for their money in getting a product that will last.  Is this what you find in Llandudno?

When the new Conference Centre was built several years ago now (In the days of the Tourist Board) there was a call for a new 5* Hotel to cater for upmarket guests.  However it was agreed that it would then take business away from existing hotels. So grants were made available to Hotels to upgrade. Most of the Hotels decided that they were not prepared to match the grants as they could not be guaranteed that their investment would enhance their businesses.  They chose instead to stick with the Turkey and Tinsel Brigade via the pensioners' coach parties as they felt that these contracts were reliable. But as a previous poster has said, these demographics do not benefit the town as the coaches whisk them off to other areas and the hotels also provide their own entertainment.  Meanwhile the younger people of the town and young family visitors are poorly catered for, and they are the ones who spend. For once you can't blame the council for that - just people who like to cling to the past.  The younger ones go out of town to the Parc to spend their money - or even further afield.

Since Venue Cymru revamped please name one event or conference they have attracted that would have justified having a 5* hotel to support it?
As for grants being made available for upgrading, what Planet have you been living on? Visit Wales said there were grants available but as a small business you try getting one. They were given to the large establishments because it was easier for Visit Wales to administer one grant of millions rather than 100 grants of thousands.
We listened to Visit Wales, we took their advice. We upgraded AT OUR OWN EXPENCE to 4 Star standard and what has happened; nobody will pay the fair asking price to stay in the upgraded rooms. Everyone is looking for a bargain. Should have saved my hard earned money and retired last year.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Nemesis on September 05, 2012, 02:27:16 pm
Visit Wales have alot to answer for------ they think everyone is made of money.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: viv on September 09, 2012, 09:54:54 pm
I think that Tourism and Leisure staff were thinking that Venue Cymru was going to be a hive of activity for conferences as it would be the only sizeable building in the area to be able to host them  -such as political party conferences - and they would demand high class accommodation As we now know, these have not materialised (well very occasionally) so the businesses who invested were let down.Venue Cymru needs a better marketing strategy in times when all businesses are cutting costs and can't afford jollys!
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: wrex on January 10, 2013, 07:53:47 am
Now that jessops looks like it might dissapear from Llandudno high street and HMV can;t be far behind when is somebody from CCBC going to suggest a solution,a plan,some scheme or just a rescue package,any one of those would show they are looking at the problem.Stead and Simpson are still going so they must have left due to rates,rents etc,Game where saved from admin but did not re-open here,why?,i think we know the answer,Llandudno landlords have priced buissnesses out of town.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: wrex on January 10, 2013, 07:56:32 am
Reading is useing some empty shops to recreate scenes from the film Zombies,where could we find 30 Zombies to re-create the film scenes.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Nemesis on January 10, 2013, 08:48:08 am
Got a good idea, but I'll let someone else make the suggestion !
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Yorkie on January 10, 2013, 08:55:17 am
Got a good idea, but I'll let someone else make the suggestion !

Us lot on the Three Towns Forum?  Especially if you have seen DaveR's recent make up job.    :D
Very gruesome it was!  8)
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Michael on January 10, 2013, 11:09:06 am
    I suppose all bankruptcies are sad, but I think with Jessops one fact in particular. They provided a marvellous opportunity for youngsters with an interest in photography to gain experience with the tackle they use. On a regular basis they offered the chance for a student, probably from the Llandrillo tech, to spend the day behind their counter dealing with customers problems. No doubt unpaid, but that is by the way.
    Another advantage for the student apart from experience in handling the cameras. I am sure DaveR will agree with me. One of the photographers skills is the ability to put the human subject at ease. In other words to be good at handling a variety of people. Where better to learn this than behind a counter? Mike
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Ian48 on January 10, 2013, 12:08:08 pm
I sometimes think that a number of people here think that it is within the power of the county council and councillors to do absolutely everything, that they are some kind of omnipotent force, able to perform feats of alchemy in the service of their citizens.

Unfortunately, they are not able to stop retail chains falling into administration, they are not able to command the people of Conwy to spend their money in shops that they do not want to, and it is not within their power to force landlords to charge lower rents.

I think people need to sometimes realise that. I don't love the council and think they could do a lot better in certain areas, but I doubt many people in Bodlondeb rub their hands with glee when they see an empty shop and wish beyond anything that Llandudno were some derelict ghost town...

There are lots of towns and cities in the UK in a far worse state than Llandudno and things aren't that bad, we should count ourselves lucky in many respects. Yes, things could be better, but let's not talk the town down eh?
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: DaveR on January 10, 2013, 12:58:38 pm
Well said, Ian.  $good$
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Sara on January 10, 2013, 01:04:03 pm
There is an advert on the Jobcentre website for a "Sales Expert" for Jessops. Was put on yesterday.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Cambrian on January 10, 2013, 04:29:32 pm
Ian48 - thanks for some common sense.  Conwy Council undoubtedly has its faults as do most public bodies but it cannot possibly control the national economy or private commercial rentals.  If anyone wants to see a really run-down commercial area have a look at Swansea High Street some time.  By the way,  aren't commercial rates set by Welsh Government not the local authorities ?
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Blongb on January 10, 2013, 07:31:54 pm
You can’t stop progress, the Saboteurs in France; the Luddites in the UK, are both proof enough of that, during earlier Centuries when we were going through great periods of change. The Internet is here to stay more and more of us are finding it easier, more convenient, safer, cheaper, warmer and comfortable to use. So unless there is a radical solution to Business Rates and high Property Rental / Leasing costs, which make the High Street so uncompetitive, it’s only a question of time until it’s consigned to the History Books. Except for Coffee Shops of course.      :'(
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Michael on January 10, 2013, 07:39:06 pm
   Do not worry. Coffee shops will eventually go the same way Mike
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Ian on January 10, 2013, 09:27:13 pm
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Unfortunately, they are not able to stop retail chains falling into administration, they are not able to command the people of Conwy to spend their money in shops that they do not want to, and it is not within their power to force landlords to charge lower rents.

Perhaps not directly, but they are capable of devising and enacting schemes that would not only facilitate better trading conditions but perhaps even draw people from further afield into the town centres. Twenty four years ago proposals to make much of Mostyn Street into a pedestrian shopping area were advanced.  That scheme might have had a radical impact on the shopping centre of town.  However,  it was  - as with much else - simply talked out. Local councils have a duty to take the lead over with sort of thing, even if - in the short term - it might prove unpopular.  One thing's for sure: whatever the effect it might have had it would be unlikely to be any worse than it presently is.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Ian48 on January 10, 2013, 09:41:48 pm
I believe the pedestrianisation proposal fell because the shopkeepers and traders were dead against it, so it was bound to fail really.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Blongb on January 11, 2013, 12:40:45 am
Mostyn Street was never designed to be pedestrianized. If it were, God forbid, it would really be the death knell of Llandudno. Traffic flow is bad enough as it is but take away one of our two main arteries and watch every Business in the top end of town wither and die. Remember Bog Island was only pedestrianized because Mostyn Estates wanted to bring back the Trams, as was the stupid redevelopment of Prince Edward Square, which included the ridiculous roundabout at the junction of North Parade and Church Walks. What would do the town’s traders a great service is for the County Council to employ a traffic management professional and the reintroduction of mass reasonably priced or even free Parking.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Ian on January 11, 2013, 08:57:37 am
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I believe the pedestrianisation proposal fell because the shopkeepers and traders were dead against it, so it was bound to fail really.

That's exactly why it was defeated and also a big part of the reason why the top end of Mostyn street is rapidly doing a pretty good transformation into a ghost town.

Quote
Mostyn Street was never designed to be pedestrianized. If it were, God forbid, it would really be the death knell of Llandudno. Traffic flow is bad enough as it is but take away one of our two main arteries and watch every Business in the top end of town wither and die.

Those were the very arguments trotted out when it was first proposed. But certainly nationally, pedestrianised areas have - in the main - flourished and frequently rejuvenated town centres. And of course you couldn't simply pedestrianise Mostyn street in isolation; you'd have to make changes to both the prom and Madoc street, and that would have both hoteliers and businesses in Mostyn street screaming. But doing nothing has resulted in the slow death of most of the top end of Mostyn Street over the years, so I seriously doubt changing it then would have made it any worse, and might have made it a lot better.

All the research that's ever been done on shopping habits in the last twnety years consistently shows two things: shoppers almost unanimously prefer pedestrianised shopping areas and - secondly - shops have to sell things which can't be bought without touching or trying through Amazon and its ilk.  Ironically, that means more small shops, selling clothing, footwear and heavier domestic items, such as dinner services.

It's often said the internet is killing the high street, but when Amazon is thinking about setting up  local outlets then towns need to find a way of accommodating the needs of shoppers and that has to be council-led.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Ian48 on January 11, 2013, 01:39:43 pm
Blongb - I think I might disagree with you on Prince Edward Square, I think it looks much better now than it used to. I will admit that it was a shame that we lost the weeping elms, but the Cenotaph looks a great deal better, setting-wise, than it used to. I think PES was pretty awful before with that old coach stop and the short brown brick walls around it (if my memory serves).

North Western Gardens has been awful for traffic flow out of town, but it did need a makeover as it was looking very scruffy towards the end and the roundabout at the bottom used to look so silly with that incongruous lamp post stuck on top of it.

My own view would be to perhaps pedestrianise Upper Mostyn Street and embrace it as an upmarket cafe/restaurant/bar area (I know the residents would hate it though). Mostyn Street is too long to be a street totally dedicated to shops as it is, as people don't walk the length of it.

I've always liked it when you go to Germany and France in the Summer and they have the cordoned off areas in the middle of pedestrianised streets and squares that belong to cafes and restaurants in the surrounding  buildings, as they take up quite a bit of the dead space and look attractive, with people sitting and drinking in the sun. Granted with our Summers and on a street on an incline like UMS this might not be ideal, but it's nice to imagine!
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Llechwedd on January 11, 2013, 01:41:37 pm
that furniture shop on Vaughan Street next to the post office has closed down.  Shame but there do seem to be a few and selling "pre-loved" suites probably didn't help them!
Make a great Waitrose.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Michael on January 11, 2013, 02:41:27 pm
  So, Llandudno high street has problems? Look at Colwyn Bay.
  An existing double fronted shop with the entrance door in the middle. On Abergele road, the absolutely main road through the town to Abergele. It's been nicely painted and a good job of sign writing on the outside. General appearance is smart and nice.
 So, what goods or services are they selling?
  Only one. An electronic (I think) form of smoking. Apparently legal in non smoking areas. 80 per cent cheaper than tobacco, or so they claim.
 And you think Llandudnos got problems.  Mike
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Dave on January 12, 2013, 06:05:31 pm
Imagine if there was a display like this one in Llandudno, the draw would be huge, a modern day rival to  Blackpool's  yesteryear show piece.
LG Optimus Hyper Facade in Berlin - Long Version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVTga6GmbGw#ws)

Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Yorkie on January 12, 2013, 06:25:48 pm
Many of Llandudno's shops are pandering to the tourists and as a shopping centre for locals and those in the surrounding towns it is becoming farcical.

 ZXZ
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Merddin Emrys on January 12, 2013, 09:06:05 pm
But Llandudno was built for tourists, I live locally and have no trouble getting anything?  :)
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Fester on January 13, 2013, 01:26:36 am
Indeed Merddin.

Yorkie, what is it you are looking to purchase, that you can't buy locally?

A genuine question, because if I am intrigued by your reply, I might open another shop!
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Yorkie on January 13, 2013, 08:29:26 am
Indeed Merddin.

Yorkie, what is it you are looking to purchase, that you can't buy locally?

A genuine question, because if I am intrigued by your reply, I might open another shop!

Now that is an idea, maybe I should move into retail - !   ;)
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Ian on January 15, 2013, 08:45:46 am
With the demise of Jessops and HMV Mostyn Street is starting to look a little bereft at the ex-woollies' end. It's a great shame, because Llandudno is probably unique in offering covered shopping walkways around the town, the very aspect which acts as a magnet for those visiting out of town shopping centres such as Cheshire Oaks.  This topic is about ideas for improving the High street and - specifically - Mostyn Street. So what are the possible solutions?

We know the biggest issues are the lack of parking and the sheer volume of traffic along Mostyn Street and you all know I've long been a proponent of pedestrianising the place.  But I don't belive we've ever taken a really serious look at what - in traffic and pedestrian terms, anyway - could be done by the council without a massive amount of expenditure.  So here're some thoughts:

1. Suppose Conwy were to look at the road layout and decide to make a very large one-way system?  The Prom would be one-way running West, with Madoc,  Chapel and possibly Augusta Streets being made one-way running East. 
2. The parking bays on the prom would be converted to angled bays, the same method as used in Colwyn Bay, and  that would probably double the number of cars that could be parked.
3.  Madoc Street - now being one-way - would have one side of the road converted to angled bays, which ought to afford more parking there.
4. Isa, Somerset and Bodafon Streets would all be one-way running East.
5. Mostyn Street - from North Parade to Vaughan Street - would be paved and made restricted entry to vehicles - similar to the system employed in Chester.
6.  At St George's place and Trinity squares parking bays for the physically disabled could be provided, along with the existing taxi ranks.
7.  The delightfully broad St Mary's Road could also be fitted with angled bays to offer more parking

It's clear, also, that many of the tiny back roads would have to be made one-way, or given special access permissions. But I sometimes wonder; do people really know how good they have it in Llandudno?  There are precious few towns, for instance, where you can park directly outside M & S and where access to almost all the traders is so relatively easy. I'm not saying that had the council had the courage they ought to have had and made these changes 25 years ago that the big names wouldn't have disappeared: that's because of factors clearly beyond anyone's control.  But such a scheme wouldn't cost that much, would definitely lead to a better shopping experience in Llandudno, would help to set the stage for a revival of Mostyn Street and - perhaps most importantly - might act to attract stores back into town  when the economic upturn finally begins.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: SDQ on January 15, 2013, 02:44:33 pm
They tried pedestrianising Mostyn Street a few years ago and it just didn't work. The town and its roads just aren't big enough to accommodate the extra parking places lost by closing the main street and people weren't willing to walk from the car parks on Gloddaeth Avenue. They put yellow lines the whole right hand side of Madoc Street so that parking was only on one side to help ease the traffic with the larger vehicles that were now using it but at 9 o'clock on the very first morning the whole right hand side of Madoc Street was lined with cars with disabled badges in their windscreens. I know because I was driving a bus and struggled to get through, it was chaotic.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Cambrian on January 15, 2013, 02:54:43 pm
With pedestrianisation, I guess one of the issues would be access to the shops and cafes for deliveries.  Most deliveries seem to take place from Mostyn Street so if all these were diverted to to the back streets possibly there would be objection from the householders living there.  Also, some parts such as from Lloyds TSB to Vic Centre do not seem to have an easy access at the rear.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Ian on January 15, 2013, 03:50:00 pm
There will always be objections and problems: that's true for any innovations. But this scheme might improve the situation in the long term. Depends on the mindset of those in power....
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: Yorkie on January 15, 2013, 04:13:33 pm
Some years ago I was in Bangor Hospital recovering from an operation for almost 4 weeks.  I amused myself by designing a new traffic system for Llandudno incorporating a one-way system, broadly similar to what Ian has suggested.  I presented it to the Council as a suggestion to overcome the traffic problems but never heard another word!  In fact I never received so much as a thank-you.

 :cyclist40: ^*^0 (*) *cycle*
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: DaveR on January 15, 2013, 06:41:43 pm
When did they try pedestrianising Mostyn Street? Must have been a few years ago, I don't remember it.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: romanjohn on February 13, 2013, 06:56:03 pm
Good evening from a very cold portsmouth just found this site it is very interesting hope you like it http://www.woolworthsmuseum.co.uk/ (http://www.woolworthsmuseum.co.uk/)
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: romanjohn on February 13, 2013, 08:42:48 pm
Thank you Dave for tidying the website for Woolworths up I did not know how to do it Romanjohn.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: DaveR on February 13, 2013, 08:45:18 pm
Thank you Dave for tidying the website for Woolworths up I did not know how to do it Romanjohn.
You're welcome, mate. Stay warm down there in Portsmouth!
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: wrex on June 25, 2013, 08:28:30 pm
In Northern Ireland where they have just held the g8 all empty shops where made to look occupied and cleaned up,i feel sorry for the Jewlers in Mostyn st (goldsmiths) having to put up with the filthy looking empty shop next door(old Ethel Austins),the owners should be made to tidy their premises up.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: DaveR on June 25, 2013, 09:05:41 pm
Agreed, the Ethel Austin shop looks terrible. All empty shops should have vinyls to cover the windows to keep them looking presentable.
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: wrex on October 04, 2013, 11:35:37 am
Still waiting for the Town council to clean up the five empty shops on Mostyn st
Title: Re: Have Your Say: Reviving the High Street
Post by: nwpo on October 04, 2013, 04:39:21 pm
Agreed, the Ethel Austin shop looks terrible. All empty shops should have vinyls to cover the windows to keep them looking presentable.

I notice that Savills have applied vinyls to the old Dreams shop on Mostyn Champneys.  Make's it look much better.