Author Topic: Your Favourite Photos of Llandudno  (Read 13104 times)

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norman08

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Re: Your Favourite Photos of Llandudno
« Reply #60 on: September 12, 2019, 09:23:30 PM »
I can still smell the stink in the ditch ,trying to cross it and falling in uck 😂

spotty dog

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Re: Your Favourite Photos of Llandudno
« Reply #61 on: September 12, 2019, 09:42:49 PM »
Have spoken to my friend apparently they joined it to the long outfall pipe that is now the storm water outlet , but it use to exit opposite Gogerth Abbey hotel .he said it had a perch on the end.as regards north shore the prom drains exit beneath the stones! ,I will have a pint with him sometime to get some more information about  West Shore

Hugo

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Re: Your Favourite Photos of Llandudno
« Reply #62 on: September 12, 2019, 10:08:17 PM »
I remember that perch and my mother told me never to go near it as there was quicksand there.  She was told that by her parents who lived nearby in Penmorfa Cottages
I don't know if she was trying to frighten me from going there but I did go there once or twice.  From what I remember there was a deep hole in the sand and it never filled in even after the tide came in.  I could never understand that.

Cambrian

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Re: Your Favourite Photos of Llandudno
« Reply #63 on: September 13, 2019, 08:39:27 AM »
The stream has a complicated history.  Originally it was an agricultural drain for draining the fields and could flow in each direction, the northern outlet is known as the Washington Outfall and is marked by Trinity House.  As the town developed, the fields disappeared and the drain became, by default, a surface water drainage ditch with various surface water sewers discharging into it.

After the War, development of Tre Creuddyn estate meant sections needed to be culverted.  At some stage, the UDC asked the Gwynedd River Board to "adopt" ditch as a scheduled "main river".  This meant that grants became available for the culverting.
As a "main river" it was given a name = The Afon Creuddyn - and maintenance of the outfalls was the responsibility. The final bit of culverting was around 1970/71 and involved works under the railway near the signal box.

In 1974 the sewerage undertaking (UDC) and the Afon Creuddyn were vested in one body, the Welsh National Water Development Authority.  As the Afon Creuddyn was by now in effect a trunk surface water sewer with no land drainage component, Welsh Water decided to "demain" the Creuddyn and simultaneously adopt it as a public surface water sewer.

Nowadays the flow is intercepted at West Shore and pumped to Sarn y Mynach for treatment along with the foul flows.  The old outfall at West Shore is used as an emergency overflow and subject to consent by NRW.

A section beyond the Links towards Craig y Don was significantly altered when Clarence Cresecent was built in the 1980s but a diverted open section is hidden in the bushes fronting Cae Clyd.  A tank in the undergrowth at the entrance to Cae Clyd seems to mark a junction between the Afon Creuddyn and the Washington system.

Ian

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Re: Your Favourite Photos of Llandudno
« Reply #64 on: September 13, 2019, 08:55:43 AM »
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I remember that perch and my mother told me never to go near it as there was quicksand there. 

The West coast of the UK has - I believe - more dangerous quicksand areas than almost anywhere in the world. Blackpool is particularly notorious, but the Dee estuary on the Wirral side can also be very dangerous for those making the crossing to the Hilbre Islands.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Hugo

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Re: Your Favourite Photos of Llandudno
« Reply #65 on: September 13, 2019, 11:17:24 AM »
Thanks for posting that info Cambrian, I found it very interesting especially as I can remember the ditch before it was culverted.   The field opposite the farm had Donkeys in it but was prone to flooding at times

I wonder if you know the answer to this as it may fit in with the Afon Creuddyn by the railway signal box.     Some years ago I was looking at an 1899 O/S map of Llandudno and it showed the town laid out and developing.     
Clifton Road had been built but Maelgwyn Road had not.    The map showed a stream coming from the direction of the Great Orme and went straight behind the houses on the western side of Clifton Road.   Stepping stones were marked on the map about half way down the street and then the stream went in a curve and through the old Central School playing field and ended at the railway line at a point exactly opposite where the Afon Creuddyn was.
Do you know if the streams merged by any chance and was there a name for the stream that I saw on the O/S map?

Cambrian

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Re: Your Favourite Photos of Llandudno
« Reply #66 on: September 13, 2019, 04:37:36 PM »
Hugo,  Yes, I had spotted that stream as well.  There are at least two streams coming from the Orme.  Another I am aware of runs roughly parallel to (Upper) Mostyn Street and used to be in a stone culvert. It entered the public sewerage system somewhere around the Carlton roundabout.

The one you refer to was probably replaced by a public sewer as the town developed and eventually discharged into Afon Creuddyn at some point - probably around the NE side of the Oval.  I have never come across it having a name.

With the construction of streets, buildings and paved areas, the old ditches were either absorbed into the public sewerage system or simply filled in. On a quiet day in Roumania Drive, it is possible to hear a stream entering the sewer.  This comes down from the Nantygamar hill and another branch runs down Fferm Bach Road and enters the Washington system at the back of the stone cottage in Queen's Road.

The flooding of the donkey field may have been due to the Washington Outfall being affected by high tide and/or backing up due to preceding heavy rainfall.




Hugo

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Re: Your Favourite Photos of Llandudno
« Reply #67 on: September 13, 2019, 07:00:10 PM »
Thanks very much for all that info Cambrian, it's fascinating learning about the development of the town.    The problems in the Donkey field were very similar to the north western part of Bodafon Farm near Ysgol Gogarth.    That section seems to have a lot of standing water at some times of the year.
Interestingly enough Ffynnon Sadwrn on the eastern side of the farm allegedly had a good supply of water until Mostyn Estates diverted some of the ditches and the supply of water to the well  dwindled away.   It may or may not be the reason for the ponding in Bodafon Farm or it could be just natural drainage from the higher slopes

Cambrian

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Re: Your Favourite Photos of Llandudno
« Reply #68 on: September 13, 2019, 07:40:18 PM »
Good point Hugo.  If you look at the early OS maps on mapsnls, you will see a ditch running westwards from what is now Ysgol Gogarth.  It runs to the vicinity of the Links so that would be what was referred to by Mostyn as the "Agricultural Drain".  My guess would be that it intercepted subsoil drainage from the Nant y Gamar high ground.  I suspect it was filled in at some stage - possibly when the tramway was built - and there are references in UDC minutes to the downstream bit being piped through what is now the Roumania Drive/Rosebery Avenue area. This would tend to support your view about the ponding of the land at the junction of Colwyn Road and Nant y Gamar Road.

norman08

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Re: Your Favourite Photos of Llandudno
« Reply #69 on: September 13, 2019, 07:53:58 PM »
A while ago people were talking  about the water in Craig y don ,houses were having work done and they found out why their gardens had water in them , those drain outlets on the prom were covered over.

spotty dog

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Re: Your Favourite Photos of Llandudno
« Reply #70 on: September 14, 2019, 04:35:44 PM »
Hi Hugo I lifted this photo from Facebook thought you might be interested. Perhaps you could put a date to it

spotty dog

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Re: Your Favourite Photos of Llandudno
« Reply #71 on: September 14, 2019, 04:39:56 PM »
Hi Hugo I lifted this photo from Facebook thought you might be able to put a date to it

Hugo

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Re: Your Favourite Photos of Llandudno
« Reply #72 on: September 14, 2019, 05:18:13 PM »
I'll tell you twice then Spotty Dog     8)     1924   1924

In actual fact I have posted the photo on here a few times before.     My mother and Norman 08's father lived in the Penmorfa Cottages which were near to where the Penmorfa Hotel once was ( pre Anwyl days   :roll: :( )   but they were not affected by the flood as the cottages stood on higher ground
I remember my mother saying that sometimes the tides on the North Shore and the West Shore nearly met.     Now Llandudno UDC  did not build a sea defence there until 1952 ( I think)   which was strange with the area liable to flooding.
As for the sea defence of 1993 I'd rather not say anything about it     

spotty dog

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Re: Your Favourite Photos of Llandudno
« Reply #73 on: September 14, 2019, 05:35:33 PM »
Sorry about the duplication Hugo my father told of the meeting of the sea's ,we lived not far from your cottages, on the corner ofGloddaeth ave , although we moved away when I was very young.

Ian

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Re: Your Favourite Photos of Llandudno
« Reply #74 on: September 14, 2019, 05:42:09 PM »
It's not an accident that in pre-industrial times the only habitations were on the Orme. The UK has been relentlessly expanding into flood plains and coastal areas for years.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.