Author Topic: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?  (Read 1240605 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

spotty dog

  • Member.
Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #8115 on: April 25, 2019, 03:28:40 PM »
Hi Hugo I tried to put a smiling face on after my tongue in cheek comment but failed ,on a serious note something must be done ,it does not help now we have more sheep than ever on the Orme plus Herdwick which eat the same unpalatable vegetation that the goats survive on

Dave

  • Member
Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #8116 on: April 26, 2019, 10:39:24 AM »
Can you just go and shoot something on either someone else's or public land without permission?
And if permission is granted, who is prepared to let it happen?

Ian

  • Administrator
Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #8117 on: April 26, 2019, 11:14:49 AM »
That's quite a thorny question, Dave. The law states:

Section 19 of the Firearms Act 1968 makes it an offence for someone to have with them a loaded shotgun, a loaded air weapon, or any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm in a public place without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on the person). The Anti-social Behaviour Act 2003 also extends the Firearms Act to include unloaded air weapons and imitation firearms.

BASC says:

The British Association for Shooting and Conservation has raised concerns with DEFRA, on behalf of its members, that allowing sections 19 and 47 of the Firearms Act to apply to all land mapped as ‘open access land’ might lead members of the public to misunderstand the scope of the provisions and contact the police. A possibility also exists that some members of the public opposed to shooting activities might make malicious complaints under section 19.
Section 47 of the Firearms Act makes provision for a constable to examine firearms and ammunition if he has cause to suspect a person of having a firearm, with or without ammunition, with him in a public place; or to be committing or about to commit, elsewhere than in a public place, an offence relevant to the purposes of the rest of Section 47.


From what I can make out, then, anyone with the proper certification can shoot on public land providing they take care not to kill or injure too many of the public (!). The existence of a Right of Way stresses specific prohibitions:

In England & Wales it is an offence without lawful authority or reasonable excuse to discharge any firearm within fifty feet of the centre of a highway which consists of or comprises a carriageway, and in consequence a user of the carriageway is injured, interrupted or endangered. [Section 161(2) of the Highways Act 1980 as amended]. It is important to remember that the discharge of a firearm is not prohibited in itself. It must also be proved that there was an injury, or that someone’s passage was interrupted or interfered with e.g. they have been forced to make a detour.


As with a lot of UK law, it's as clear as mud and this doesn't help:

Whilst the Firearms Act does not provide a statutory definition of what is meant by “lawful authority” or “reasonable excuse”. We believe that “lawful authority” would not necessarily apply to sportsmen as this seems to relate to those issued with firearms in connection with official duties such as police or military personnel. “Reasonable excuse” would apply to sportsmen shooting over land with permission. Section 19 of the Firearms Act with regard to having a ‘firearm in a public place’ also applies and is described on page 4. This legislation applies to all public places and not just open access land.


In terms of shooting on someone else's land without permission, that's not illegal, in fact, since civil trespass is not illegal under UK law.  That's why it's not illegal to enter anyone's private garden.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

spotty dog

  • Member.
Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #8118 on: April 26, 2019, 01:17:05 PM »
In terms of shooting on someone else's land without permission, that's not illegal, in fact, since civil trespass is not illegal under UK law.  That's why it's not illegal to enter anyone's private garden.


IAN IT IS ILLEGAL to enter any public or private land without permission carrying a shotgun or any firearm the offence is  ARMED TRESPASS  and carries serious penalties



Ian

  • Administrator
Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #8119 on: April 26, 2019, 02:34:45 PM »
That's not quite accurate:

"ARMED TRESPASS
 It is an offence to enter any building, part of a building or land (including land covered by water) with a firearm without reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on the person). [Section 20 Firearms Act 1968] "

That's what I was saying about the law and its lack of clarity. A lot of this comes down to the fact we don't have a constitution; British Law is largely based on precedent, as when the lawmakers frame an act they don't specify the details, leaving that to the courts.  So to use the example above, someone could possibly enter private land with a loaded shotgun if they could prove there was a reason they needed to do that. And there could be a lot of reasons.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

SteveH

  • Newshound
  • *****
Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #8120 on: May 13, 2019, 05:15:37 PM »
I heard earlier, that there was a cruise ship in the Bay, ferrying passengers ashore, apparently a rather expensive cruise, mention of a £1,000 for the week ?  still here according to Ship Finder.

The Pioneer reports...........  THE small cruise liner MS Hebridean Sky has anchored off Llandudno.

The 4,200 tons displacement craft is cruising between Plymouth and Fairlie in Scotland, and was scheduled to leave Llandudno on the evening of Monday May 13 for Peel on the Isle of Man. Her previous port of call was Fishguard.

She is owned by Noble Caledonia which conducts cruises around the British Isles and as far afield as the Arctic and Antarctic, Africa, the Mediterranean, Japan, Norway, Alaska, the Black Sea and many other places. As a small ship she is able to visit remote destinations well off the beaten tourist track.

Bri Roberts

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #8121 on: May 13, 2019, 06:33:09 PM »
SteveH, her next cruise from Scotland for 13 nights (or 12 days) is from £7,395 per person.

I make that roughly £1,000 per night, per couple.



ormegolf

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
    • Great Orme family golf
Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #8122 on: May 14, 2019, 02:47:41 PM »
  How about this? This morning. The road up the Orme by the side closed for a second day. Because a landslip which happened around 18 months ago being fixed. So no bus service up. And of course no cars.
  So the bus had to climb up by the road next to the tram station. Because arrival didn’t have a suitably small bus, another bus operator called in. There were difficulties, but passengers could get more or less to where they wanted.
  But today unfortunately a lady was injured close to the tram station. So this the alternative route was also closed.
  So now how does the bus get up. Only way via the zigzags by the cemetery. O k with a bit of luck passengers could just about get up and maybe down.
  Only one big snag. The council, our council, the one who arranged this landslip work. They wanted £10 a time to let the bus through the toll road.
  Any comments.

SteveH

  • Newshound
  • *****
Re: What's Llandudno Like Right Now?
« Reply #8123 on: May 14, 2019, 06:03:53 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
SteveH, her next cruise from Scotland for 13 nights (or 12 days) is from £7,395 per person.

I make that roughly £1,000 per night, per couple.

But they do promise ........"The ship features 59 exceptionally spacious suites, with each of the eight kinds of suites features a sitting area and 14 of them a private balcony."

"A Hebridean Sky representative said: “We promise there will be no organised entertainment, fancy dress, deck games or any of the usual big ship experiences.     ;)

“Instead, the atmosphere is warm and convivial and more akin to a private yacht or country hotel in which you can learn more about the wonders of nature, culture and ancient civilisations in the company of like-minded people.”

The DP'S piece ....  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login