Pen Morfa Cottages

[Hugo]

Roger, I've looked at the 1871 Wales Census today for Min Y Don Cottages ( aka Penmorfa Cottages)  and still cannot find your relative Walter William Jones there.
In the 1871 Census,  Evan Jones who previously lived at No 5 on the 1861 Census was by then living at No 4.     At No 3 in 1871 the Head of the household was Mary Jones.
It may be that Walter had died by the time that the Census was carried out in 1871 but where was he living before he moved to Min Y Don Cottages?

[rog]

Hello Hugo,

Walter died 22 Jan 1871, so before the census was taken. His youngest son, Evan was born 29 July 1870 in Min Don, Llandudno. Walter's next youngest son, David Llewelyn was born 1868 in Llansantffraid, so the family must have moved to Min y Don Cottages between 1868 and 1870.

Thank you for help.

Have a Merry Chrismas

Rog

[Hugo]

Thanks Rog,
That may be a big help and perhaps he wasn't buried in Llandudno after all.  It'll be New Year before I can go to the Archives but I'll have another look when I go there next.
There are two Cemeteries in Llansanffraid that I am aware of, so it may be there that he is buried.

Hope that you have a Happy Christmas and New Year.  I remember my Dutch friends telling me that they celebrate it on a different date to ours over here so you can have two celebrations now.   

[rog]

Hi Hugo,

Not sure about a burial in Llansantffraid. Walter was a travelling Boot and Shoemaker. I have folllowed his movements across North Wales by way of the births of his children. LLansantffraid was his last port of call before moving on to Llandudno.  If he was buried elsewhere I would expect it to be Holywell. This was where he was born. His father, William, had a shoe shop on the High street but William died mid 1860s.

The Dutch celebrate Christmas and New Year, as we do but Sinterklaas is celebrated on 6 Dec.  Children are told that if they are naughty Black Pete will put them in his sack and take them away. Needless to say I have been very good this year.  ZXZ

Merry Christmas to All, 

Rog

[Hugo]

Thanks for all the info Rog, the Conwy Archives only covers the area of the County of Conwy but Holywell was in Flintshire when Walter died and their Archive office is elsewhere.
I'll see what I can do in the New Year though.

Prettige Kersdagen, Nadolig LLawen and a Merry Christmas to everyone.      Z**   

[Micox]

Going way off topic do you think Black Pete is synonymous with the folk song Black Jack Davy (best known by Steeleye Span)?

[Hugo]

I had a look on Ancestry today Rog, but you probably know the details already. Walter William Jones' death was recorded in the Burial Register Jan/Feb/ Mar of 1871 at the Conway District at Vol 11b pg 398.    I don't think that this tells anyone where the burial was carried out at but I'll ask at the Archives asap.
According to the 1861 Census Walter was living at 17 Garden Street, Llansanffraid Glan Conwy.  It seemed like a big street in the village but I've no idea where it once was or even if it is still there today.

[rog]

Hello Hug,

I think you will find Walter was living in Bangor 1861. 
 
I am attaching a copy the census page for 1861 as well as a copy of Walter's death cert. As you say, no help with the burial and that will only be found in the PRs. 

Happy New Year,

Roger

[rog]

and the census.

Size limit caught me out, as wll as having a problem finding my 'o' key. 

[rog]

Going way off topic do you think Black Pete is synonymous with the folk song Black Jack Davy (best known by Steeleye Span)?

Hi Micox,

My fault. Translating when I shouldn't. 

Try this. Not sure how tha backing music goes tho'. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet

Roger

[Hugo]

No wonder I couldn't find Garden Street in Llansanffraid Glan Conwy            I did work in Bangor Gwynedd for over 20 years but have never heard of Garden Street there either.   

Looking at the Death Certificate for Walter, I couldn't quite make out where it said he was born. Did it say Flint Holywell?

[rog]

Hi Hugo,

I mentioned in Reply 32 that Walter was born in Holywell. The 1861 census is correct, in that Holywell was in Flintshire at that time (abt 1823).   

I tried looking at the Old Maps website but could not find a map.

[dwsi]

http://bit.ly/tyR6uF


8. Walter William JONES, son of William JONES and Margaret OWENS, was born about 1824 in Holywell, Wales and died on 22 Jan 1871 in Llandudno, Wales age 47 from Disease of Heart & Dropsy.

                        Occupation: Boot & Shoemaker.
Walter married Eleanor BARKLEY on 12 May 1853 in Wrexham. Eleanor was born on 7 Jun 1829 in Tythebarn and died about 1859 about age 30.

Marriage Notes: Ellen Berkley
The child from this marriage was:

4         i.  William Walter JONES (born on 1 Jun 1854 in Liverpool - died on 18 Oct 1900 in Fulham, London). William married Louisa Selina BEAK on 18 Apr 1887 in All Saints Church, Lucknow, India. Louisa was born on 31 Mar 1856 in Bath, Somerset, died on 21 Dec 1905 in Islington at age 49, and was buried on 27 Dec 1905 in Fulham Palace Rd Cemetery, London.
Walter next married Mary ROBERTS, daughter of Robert ROBERTS and Unknown, on 19 Apr 1860 in Bangor, Wales.

General Notes: Address; 3 Min y Don Terrace, Llandudno. Wales. 1861 census address: 17 Garden Street, Bangor.

    Children from this marriage were:

          i.  Thomas Owen JONES was born on 28 Feb 1861 in Bangor, Wales.
         ii.  John Roger JONES was born about 1863 in Bishop Castle, Shropshire.
        iii.  Roger Perris JONES was born about 1865 in Llanberris, Wales.
         iv.  David Llewelyn JONES was born about 1868 in Llansantffd, Wales.
          v.  Evan JONES was born about 1870 in Llandudno, Wales.

[dwsi]

Garden Street, Bangor is now under the Menai multi-storey car park

[Hugo]

Thanks Dwsi, that's a great find.  I worked in a building overlooking that street but didn't know that it had once been called Garden Street as it is now known as Ashley Road.
The original houses must have been demolished as they have been replaced with more modern ones and I think that the modern ones are still there and weren't affected by the car park