Author Topic: soneJones  (Read 2599 times)

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Offline Micox

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soneJones
« on: May 24, 2011, 05:54:07 pm »
 $walesflag$ Back to back they are. And searching for them makes my head go round and round. My Joneses are the seedbed of many Llandudno people - and they are good common Welsh farm labouring stock. This is the beginnings of their early story. No apologies for its length - I think this kind of genealogical information is, on this kind of forum, historically valuable and potentially, it can bring in many human links:

Ann Jones (my Nain Fawr) first of all:

BORN
1835, 34 or 33.

Place of Birth
Pen Y Gaer, Llanwyddelan, Montgomeryshire.

Getting definite information was made easier by a visit to the area in March of this year. I knew Welshpool but had never been to the rural area around Llanfair Caereinion and Llanwyddelen. I wanted to fill out the sketchy impressions I had of the area from OS maps and rare photos. It doesn't seem to be an area that has ever attracted written description or,equally, thought to have merited photographic or painterly attention. I also went to see what, if any, vibrations (for want of a better word) I would get there.

I was knocked out. It is one of the world's uniquely beautiful and almost timeless places. And yes, almost immediately I felt I totally belonged there - a natural part of the earth there. Fanciful perhaps, but a great feeling nonetheless.   

Llanwyddelan is a small, scattered village centred on a beautifully sited church and cemetry (Church of Wales) set on a prominent hill on the eastern approach. The church has an unusual slate hung gable end where it faces west.

The road eastwards through the village, after a mile and a quarter, reaches the village of Adfa. Just about quarter of a mile before you get to Adfa, there is a small lane running up right (north). Following this lane, you will come to a relatively new water works installation on your left. About 200 yards further up the lane from here is a field gate on the left. from this field gate a farm track is seen curving roughly north west down the hill to a large farm about a quarter of a mile away in the dip between the hills. This is Llwyncoppa (it’s a mark of the beauty and timeless magic of this area that many of the house and farm names seen in the 1841 census are still there today).

Going back down the lane, just past the water works down the hill and on the opposite side, is a pair of adjacent field gates, each leading into a different field. A mature hedgerow reinforced with trees in its line curves north eastwards up the hill to the ancient hill fort called Y Gaer (Welsh for the fort). A wide stream runs down the field side of the hedge, swollen and fast running to the point of being impassable when I was there.

Through the second gate uphill there can just be made out a place strewn with stones where the stream can be forded when full and easily passable when dry. Following the line through the gate and the ford, there is a gap in the hedge and in the separate field the other side of the hedge, the contours of the track shown on the 1836 OS map can just be made out. This leads across the field to a small clump of trees on a level platform in the hill. From the road, this looks one likely site for Pen Y Gaer.

About 200 yards further up the lane from here is a field gate on the left. from this field gate a farm track is seen curving roughly north west down the hill to a large farm about a quarter of a mile away in the dip between the hills. This is Llwyncoppa (it’s a mark of the beauty and timeless magic of this area that many of the house and farm names seen in the 1841 census are still there today).

The site location was later confirmed by the Clwyd - Powys Archeological Society. They said:"I have searched the Regional Historic Environment Record and have found that both cottages are recorded on there. The only survey in which they have been included as yet, is as part of a Tir Gofal Management Plan - a scheme which supports farmers in protecting both the archaeological heritage and natural environment on their land. In this survey, the cottage sites were located within the landscape, their location only being visible today by the way of a slight level platform. Both the cottages and Pen y Gaer hillfort fall within the land of Tynyrwtra Farm..." They also sent the National Grid References for the cottages: SJ0667001199 and SJ0668601197.
 
The 1841 census records the family living at “Penygaer” as:

Evan Jones age 30 Ag Lab
Ann Jones age 35             
Ann Jones  age 7               
Mary Jones age 4               
Margaret Jones age 1
Margaret Gittins 80 pauper

Alun Baines my distant cousin (in both senses) lives in New Zealand. Alun did acres of invaluable fundamental research which he generously shared with me. Following the clue provided by the presence of Margaret Gittins at Penygaer in 1841, he found: "The name Margaret Gittins gave a clue to Ann Jones’s parent. Margaret Gittins was buried in Welshpool aged 82 of Penygaer 28 December 1844 ( Her death was registered by a member of the Jones family..." Alun went on to find an important marriage record:
" Evan Jones (bachelor) to Ann Gittins (spinster) at Llanwyddelan Parish Church 2nd April 1830
Witnesses Thomas Gittins (signed) and Thomas Owen (signed).
[Thomas Owen was a customary witness at this period. Thomas Gittins was Ann’s father].

So it turns out my Great Grandmother Ann Jones' mother was originally Ann Gittins. Ann Gittins' father Thomas had the farm Llwyncoppa which is just over the lane and a couple of fields away from Penygaer. Alun went on to find that: "After their marriage in 1830 Evan and Ann Jones lived at ‘Penygair’ and had a daughter
Anne Jones on the 10 October 1830. (This) Anne died age 2 on the 31 January 1833...On the 24 November 1833 a second Anne Jones (sic) was born followed by: Mary born 27 November 1843; Thomas born 19 January 1843; and Evan born 1846"

Alun doesn't say where this information came from but if it's accurate, it gives us Ann Jones' exact birthdate.

In the 1851 census, Ann is missing from Penygaer but at Llwyncoppa an Ann Jones aged 17 is recorded as a 'servant.' Interestingly, another servant recorded there in 1851 is John Jones aged 16 - but his place of birth is down as Manafon, not Llanfair Caereinion.

Whether or not that is our John Jones, Ann probably married our John sometime between 1851 and 1858. Alun found their first child Evan's birth certificate: " Evan was born at Penygaer Oct 31st 1858. Ann registered his birth 6 days later in Tregynon a Sub District of Newtown."

Both Alun and I have made futile searches for a record of Ann and John's marriage - an important bit of information to tie things together. In 1861, they, with their son's Evan aged 2 and John aged 3 months are living at the Wheatsheaf Inn, Berriew Street, Welshpool. They are, so far, not traceable via the Welshpool, Llanfyllin (Llanfair Caereinion was in that registry district then) or Newtown registries. I searched the non-conformist indexes at the Montgomeryshire Genealogical Society's office in Newtown when I visited last March - no trace. On the religious side, Ann and John seem to have been with the Church of Wales - their children were baptised at CofW churches. However, there must be some uncertainty: Penygaer, although techinically in Llanwyddelen, was really geographically linked with Adfa and Llwyncoppa  was in Adfa (still is). there is an interesting bit in the history of the founder of Adfa Chapel which says the area was strongly non-conformist and before the Chapel was built the people of the area held their services "at local farms like Llwyncoppa." 
 
For other Jones seekers, John and Ann's children were, chronologically: Evan, John, Sarah Jane, Anne, Lucy, Rose (my Nain), Mary (Polly), Maggie, and Elizabeth (Betty).

I'm now, as well as continuing the search for facts, trying to build a picture of how Ann and John lived then - the social conditions, circumstances and environment they would have experienced. A problem is that while there are some excellent and entertaining texts available from the National Library of Wales and others, these range all over Wales except for the area around Llanfair and Llanwyddelen. So. so far it's heavy extrapolation.

And John (my maternal Taid Mawr)):

BORN
1836 (by most accounts)

note  John appears in Llandudno living in Back Madoc Street in the 1901 census (age given as 62). Aunt Rose (Humphreys) born in 1903 says in her Journal “I can’t remember my grandparents.” Searching the deaths index,the only person near his age between 1901 and 1903 who appears there is a John Jones in 1903 aged 69 years. At the present time I don't know where he is buried.

Place of Birth
Llanfair Caereinion, Montgomeryshire.

The census area for Llanfair Caereinion is wide, taking in several square miles of surrounding countryside dotted with farms and small rural houses.

In the 1841 census (6th June) there are six John Joneses of around the right age. They are:

 Ty Evan Rhys (page 107) John age 6;

 Brynellen (page 120) John age 5;

 Lletty Gwilym Isaf (page 146) John age 4;

 Bonnygewin (page 164) John age 5

 Neuadd Fach (page 175) John age 6;

 Llwychylau (page 178 John age 6.

Alun (see above) had said: “ Tracing John Jones born in Llanfair Caereinion has proved more difficult because the likely candidate for a John Jones born 1836 at ‘Brynellen’ was incorrect and a more likely prospect with similiar family names was :-
 
1851 Census
Cross farm of 107 acres
Evan Jones  Head Married 40 farmer born Llanfair Caereinion.
Elizabeth Jones wife married 46         born Llanfair Caereinion
John Jones            14                         born Llanfair Caereinion (born 1837)”

Cross Farm is roughly 2/3 miles south west of Llanfair Caereinion set in beautiful untouched countryside. The farm lies about 200 yds up a concreted track to the right off the minor road from Llanllugan to Four Crosses. The original old house is still there dwarfed and hidden amongst the modern farm buildings. There was no-one in when I called.

Right opposite, across the road from the track to the farm, is a lovely little old chapel with tiny wild cemetery. There are burials in the cemetery from Cross Farm.

I found out later at the Mongomeryshire Genealogical Society office in Newtown, that this is Siloh Chapel. Following this possible lead I scoured the non-conformist BMW records at the Society office with nil results.   

In the 1841 census there is no Cross Farm. There is a house by the name of Ty Groes (welsh for Cross House) in the right place but the name of the family there is Davies.

If there are Joneses out there who recognise the roots, let's start a directory here. For a start: The Yr Ogo Joneses and Miriam. The connection here is that Miriam and Isaac Jones' son John (Jack Yr Ogo) married Ann and John's daughter Mary (Polly) Jones.

As incidental information, Isaac Jones was born in Liverpool in about 1805, Miriam was born in Llangylenin (please correct my spelling) on 1st August 1830.
Micox

Offline Hugo

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Re: soneJones
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2011, 04:37:02 pm »
A fascinating piece of reading and research there Mike and I hope that you can put the final pieces of the jigsaw together.       $walesflag$