Author Topic: Local History  (Read 25404 times)

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Offline Pendragon

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Local History
« on: April 12, 2011, 12:32:39 am »
I've been reading loads of old books lately and found some really interesting references to the local area.  Some are ancient like Braich Y Dinas in Penmaenmawr or in the times of Llewelyn and Conwy Castle or more recent things like old pubs in Conwy and the building of the Conwy tunnel.  So I'll put all the snippets in here.

Unable to cross the river Conwy, Henry III and his army were forced to make camp at Deganwy Castle which lay in ruins having been destroyed by Henry's enemy Edward.  A courtier describes sleeping in houses of canvas and having no winter clothes.  He goes on to say they are employed in "Watchings. Fastings, and Praying"
This is an extract taken from a letter written  by a young courtier on September 24th 1245.

There is a small arm of the sea which ebbs and flows under the aforesaid castle, and  forming of a sort of harbour, into which during our stay here, ships have often come from Ireland and from Chester  bringing provisions.  This arm of the sea lies between us and Snowdon where the Welsh quarter themselves and is at high tide about a crossbow shot wide.  On the Monday next before Michaelmas in the afternoon, a ship from Ireland bringing provisions to us for sale was coming up towards the entrance to the harbour, but, being incautiously steered, as the sea receded it remained aground under our aforesaid Castle (Deganwy) but on the opposite bank towards the Welsh who immediately rushed down and made an attack on it as it lay on the dry ground.  We therefore seeing this preceding from the bank on this side we sent 300 Welshmen our Borderer's from Cheshire and Shropshire across the water in boats together with some crossbow men to defend the said ship, on seeing which the Welshmen hurriedly retreated to their accustomed and well known hiding places in the rocks and in the woods.  Our Knights attended by their followers pursued them for a distance of two leagues and although they were on foot (for they had not bought their horses across the water with them) they wounded and slew many of the Welsh.

Only hindsight has 20/20 vision
Angiegram - A romantic notion derived from the more mundane truth.

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

Offline Ian

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Re: Local History
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2011, 08:22:02 am »
Quote
the Welshmen hurriedly retreated to their accustomed and well known hiding places in the rocks and in the woods

In 1245, of course, Snowdonia and the Carneddau were heavily forested, so there would have been plenty of cover for the hiders.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.


Offline Trojan

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Re: Local History
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2011, 07:16:34 pm »
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the Welshmen hurriedly retreated to their accustomed and well known hiding places in the rocks and in the woods

In 1245, of course, Snowdonia and the Carneddau were heavily forested, so there would have been plenty of cover for the hiders.

Extremely apt at Guerrilla Warfare were the Welsh.

Offline Pendragon

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Re: Local History
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2011, 12:31:30 am »
Plas Isa, Twthill and Marine Walk

Plas Isa was a large Mansion on the site of the Library.  Rev Hugh Williams occupied the house in 1805.  He was a Magistrate and very decrepit however "he was held in such respect that he was carried seated in a chair, to quell any disturbance in the town"
Up until the early 19th century the stocks were situated just outside Plas Isa.  When the stocks were to be used there was a custom that whoever had been married last would have to run up to Pen Twthill and "cry stocks" the proceedings were watched over by a "Corporation Official with a large staff in his hand to see that the culprits were not molested"
Pen Twthill was a public highway which began at Town Ditch through the grounds of Bodlondeb and lead out on the Morfa Drive.(probably the same path that runs through it today.)
Bodlondeb was owned by Mr Albert Wood and in 1876 an agreement was made with the then Surveyor of Highways to close the Pen Twthill highway in exchange Mr Wood was to build an alternative route skirting Bodlondeb.  That new highway is the Marine Walk.

Only hindsight has 20/20 vision
Angiegram - A romantic notion derived from the more mundane truth.

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

Offline Pendragon

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Re: Local History
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2011, 01:16:15 am »
Bodlondeb and the Council

The population of the Borough had increased from 7,964 in 1921 to 10,500 by 1936. 
The following was written for the Official Opening of the New Civic Center (Bodlondeb) booklet in July 1937.
The official opening was performed by the Right Hon David Lloyd George.

During the last few years this rate of progress has not only been maintained but has increased to such an extent that the Council realised that with the necessary additions to the staff more adequate office accommodation must be provided for the efficient administration of the affairs of the Borough.  Two years ago a Committee was set up for this purpose and various schemes were prepared and examined, but owing to the difficulties that wee encountered, such as suitable site, etc these were not proceeded with.

During the early part of 1936 the Trustees of the late Mr Albert Wood decided to dispose of the Bodlondeb estate.
A special Committee of the Council consisting of the Mayor Alderman Arthur T S Smith, JP.  Councillor R D Parry (Chairman of the Councils Estate and Harbour Committee) the Town Clerk Mr Arthur L  Ralphes and the Borough Engineer Mr E O Foulks were appointed to negotiate for the purchase.  Unfortunately the Committee were unsuccessful in their negotiations with the trustees and the only course left to the Council was to make an Order under the provisions of the Public Works Facilities act 1930 for the compulsory purchase of the Estate to ensure its preservation as an open space for all time.
After all the requirement of the Act had been carried out the Minister of Health confirmed the Compulsory Purchase Order on the 5th August 1936.  An official Arbitrator was appointed to determine the price to be paid for the Estate by the Council.
The fact that the Minister approved of the steps taken by the council is significant when it is borne in mind that no Public Inquiry was directed to be held prior to the confirmation of the order.


It goes on to say what an asset Bodlondeb will be to the Council over the coming years.  Judging what you've just read you can see why there are those in Conwy Town that are under the impression that Bodlondeb was basically and very cleverly snaffled by the Council.

 
Only hindsight has 20/20 vision
Angiegram - A romantic notion derived from the more mundane truth.

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

Offline DaveR

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Re: Local History
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2011, 08:21:18 am »
Good stuff!  $good$ If the Council hadn't of bought it, of course, the house would probably have been demolished and the entire area would be a housing estate now. So I'm still thinking it was the best outcome for Conwy.

Offline Pendragon

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Re: Local History
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2011, 01:40:31 am »
I was having a look on the web last night this morning, and came across this diary written by Rev Peris Williams, army chaplain, 1914-16.  The letter is held at The University Bangor.

I always find words like these really touching.

Translation: 'Tuesday, Oct 27th This morning after awaking I was uncertain that I would be of any use here to the boys. After coming down I opened the Bible and the first words that my eyes fell upon were these: 'Fear not, for I am with you, I am your God, be not dismayed: I will strengthen, I will support you, I will uphold you with my trusty hand' - Esiah 41.10. After breakfast I went as far as the 2nd RAMC [Royal Army Medical Corps] Hospital Congregational Schoolrooms Abington Avenue, to look for a young man called Robert Evans from Cefnmawr whom the Rev E. K. Jones had written to me about. I was given directions in order to find him by the men at the gates, but having gone to the department where he was, I was told that his health had improved to the extent that he had been allowed to leave and return to his accommodation. I went around the patients, asking them questions and trying to cheer them up; among them were men from Caernarfon, Conwy, Penmaenmawr, Cardiff, Tredegar, Chirk, New Broughton &tc. The poorliest of those I saw was a young man, about 19 years old, who had been brought to the hospital the previous night suffering from pneumonia. He was very ill. Poor fellow. 'Somebody's darling so young & so fair'.
Only hindsight has 20/20 vision
Angiegram - A romantic notion derived from the more mundane truth.

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

Offline Pendragon

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Re: Local History
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2011, 02:13:07 pm »
I'm always intrigued by the inventions of the Victorians below is an advert for an anti-poaching device invented and produced by John Morris, a Welshpool gun-maker.  A series of trip wires would set off flares which would enable the land owner to identify the intruder.

Only hindsight has 20/20 vision
Angiegram - A romantic notion derived from the more mundane truth.

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

Offline Yorkie

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Re: Local History
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2011, 03:20:48 pm »
Some of the landowners set up trip wires that fire blank cartridges!   Available for under £20.00.
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Fools have to say something.
Cicero

Offline Pendragon

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Re: Local History
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2011, 11:48:28 pm »
Some interesting photos of people from Llandudno that I've not seen before:

pic 1 Native Americans in the Cottage Hospital llandudno.
pic 2 The owner of the Camera Obscura Llandudno.
pic 3 William Evans in 1902 delivering the milk with his trusty steed Donkey
Only hindsight has 20/20 vision
Angiegram - A romantic notion derived from the more mundane truth.

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

Offline Pendragon

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Re: Local History
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2011, 11:51:40 pm »
This photograph shows the engineer and manager of the Llandudno Gas Works closing down the valve on the exhausters when the Works finally ceased production, over a century after the original works commenced production. The supervisor of the works is also shown in the photograph. The year is 1955.
The workers in the Gas Mask factory in Llandudno, I have no idea where this was?
Only hindsight has 20/20 vision
Angiegram - A romantic notion derived from the more mundane truth.

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

Offline Pendragon

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Re: Local History
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2011, 12:01:04 am »
This is a map of Conwy drawn by A Bowdler in 1776 on behalf of Owen Holland of Plas Isa, Conwy.
Look at the difference in the town.  Most of the land within the walls is gardens.  Berry Street is called Burial Street.  Rose Hill Street is called Mill Oate Street and the High Street is named Great Street.  Fascinating.
Only hindsight has 20/20 vision
Angiegram - A romantic notion derived from the more mundane truth.

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

Offline Pendragon

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Re: Local History
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2011, 10:22:50 am »
I've been looking through our local Court Quarter Sessions papers recently.  Quarter Sessions were local courts held every 3 months in the local Boroughs.  Each Quarter Session had a title:
Epiphany, Easter, Midsummer and Michaelmas sessions. 
They were notoriously unfair trials and blatantly bias towards offenders.  Quite often the court proceedings were not recorded sufficiently or in any depth and dates, names and offenses were not accurately recorded. Chairmen of these courts were gentlemen and did not require any other qualifications to pass harsh and lengthy sentences at the time.  Quarter Sessions were abolished in 1972 in England and Wales and replaced with Crown Courts built specifically for the purpose.  Where it says offenders went to prison or were issued with hard labour it seems prisoners were sent to Caernarfon or Beaumaris gaols (jails).

One such case has nothing to do with Conwy or Llandudno to be fair but I thought I'd tell you as it's quite funny.  In 1806 A Mary Williams of Deneio (Deneiolen) Bangor was charged with "pretending knowledge of Crafty Powers" with the intent of obtaining by deception £3.10s from Richard Hughes who was a Husbandman (butler).  Crafty Powers seems to suggest Mary Williams was pretending she knew Palmistry or Fortune Telling.  Unfortunately I can't find out what her sentence was in this instance.

On the 15th August 1853 Catherine Grey assaulted Lydia Mclellan at an Alms house for the poor, owned by Isaiah Davies.  The case was heard on the 2nd September and Catherine Grey recieved a fine of 5s and 11s costs or 3 days imprisonment also the sum of 5s to be paid to Mr Davies of Llandudno keeper of the Alms house where the assault took place.

In1869 on Nov 22 Ann (Tanny) Jones was charged with stealing a teapot from Margaret Tosdevine a licensed victualler. The witnesses against Ann Jones were Mary and William Williams. Ellen and William Owen and Elizabeth and John Williams all licensed victuallers in Conwy and the Superintendant of Police John Evans.  They all gave evidence against Ann Jones and William Jones.  Ann was charged with stealing the teapot worth seven shillings and William Jones was charged with receiving and harboring said teapot.
Ann Jones was found Guilty and received six weeks imprisonment with hard labour and William Jones was found not guilty.

This is just a few of the cases.

Only hindsight has 20/20 vision
Angiegram - A romantic notion derived from the more mundane truth.

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

Offline Yorkie

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Re: Local History
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2011, 10:58:03 am »
Exciting stuff in those days by the look of things!    ZXZ
Wise men have something to say.
Fools have to say something.
Cicero

Offline Pendragon

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Re: Local History
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2011, 12:46:06 pm »
I know this isn't really in the Three Towns area but every now and again your told something that's really interesting.  Gail was telling me the other night about Little Venice in Rhyl, built as a tourist attraction in the Victorian era under the Queens Palace Hotel.  Gail say's she has been down there years ago, at that time all the plaster work and ornate arches were still intact.   The place sounds amazing, they should open it up again for the public.  It was only when I looked for pictures of Little Venice did I stumble on old postcards and photos of Rhyl.  It really was a fantastic tourist destination in the early 1900s.   Below is an extract from a blog on the Daily Post, I am unsure of the date.   The full version is on the link.

The Queens Palace accommodated a large theatre and a super ballroom. In the dome was a zoo above which was a small observation tower. Below ground level was a small lake designed to look like a Venetian scene complete with gondolas. Admission to this unique attraction was a mere 2d and an extra 1d for a trip on the gondola. The walls of the building were the likeness of present day Venetian scene, but even the eight doubled arches that span the walled-in water, on which gondolas were manned by picturesquely attired Italians. The Queens entrance to little Venice still exists today and at the heart of the entrance in the East Parade of the promenade is the swan and the pale blue heart. Also said to exist is two gondolas from 1907 when it was closed off.


http://forums.dailypost.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=45945
Only hindsight has 20/20 vision
Angiegram - A romantic notion derived from the more mundane truth.

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley