Author Topic: Health  (Read 12406 times)

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Merddin Emrys

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Re: Health
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2013, 06:55:50 PM »
 :laugh:
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Ian

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Re: Health
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2013, 07:49:45 AM »
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I wouldn't call them 'Bugs' if I were you Suepp. You see Ian is likely to castigate you for using the wrong terminology, thus trivialising and ultimately burying the original and important point you might be making.

Really? 'Bugs' is the acknowledged generic term for all manner of microbial nasties, so Suepp is quite accurate in her description, as she is with the points being made, each of which makes a lot of sense.  However, she is not the person who confused two totally different types of 'bug', one of which isn't even alive, neither is she the one who made a point which was utterly incorrect, based either on a misreading of the original BBC article or which demonstrated an alarming level of ignorance on the very subject being presented for discussion. It's particularly worrying since  - at this time of year - the NHS is stretched thin as it valiantly attempts to deal with legions of hypochondriacs with colds, all assuming they're going to be cured through a prescription of antibiotics.

The medical fraternity have been trying to years to educate people about the differences between Viruses and Bacteria, as it's over-prescribing of antibiotics for virus-originated infections which has led, in part at least, to the current situation in which Bacteria are evolving to become immune. However, you clearly don't believe it's of any importance to distinguish between the two, so I can only hope the next time you suffer a paper cut it doesn't live up to your name: you might not survive.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Fester

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Re: Health
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2013, 10:57:44 AM »
So are you suggesting that the BBC are producing articles that are incorrect Ian?

I take it that because I committed the heinous crime of using the wrong terminology, that Antibiotics are still in full vigour, undiminished in their effectiveness, and that the experts in the article are prone to gross exaggeration.

In future, (if I can be bothered a all) I will simply post links to interesting articles, and not add any commentary as it seems to draw more attention and criticism than the article itself.

Fester...
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Ian

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Re: Health
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2013, 12:40:03 PM »
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So are you suggesting that the BBC are producing articles that are incorrect Ian?

No;  the article was accurate,.  It was you that wasn't.

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I take it that because I committed the heinous crime of using the wrong terminology, that Antibiotics are still in full vigour, undiminished in their effectiveness, and that the experts in the article are prone to gross exaggeration.

I suggest you read the article again. 

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In future, (if I can be bothered a all) I will simply post links to interesting articles, and not add any commentary as it seems to draw more attention and criticism than the article itself.

Let me remind you of what you said:

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Basically, the viruses of this world are now so resistant to antibiotics, that antibiotics themselves are becoming a waste of time.

That's simply incorrect. If you're going to post in a topic called 'Health' then you should probably understand what is - really - very basic terminology. And you did post a link:  that's how I knew what you were saying was...confused.

BOT - it's worth remembering that we can't defeat viruses;  only our own immune systems can.  That's what makes them so deadly.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Fester

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Re: Health
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2013, 01:59:19 PM »
Ian, you are like a dog with an old slipper.

The article was for interest and debate, I was not setting myself up as a world authority on all matters, I leave that to your good self.

The need to correct everyone for everything at every opportunity only stifles contribution.
There was feedback to that effect from other Forum members at the back end of last year.

Come to think of it, when my daughter was taking her first tentative steps at age 9 months, I wish I had discouraged her from trying to do so, as she obviously was not walking correctly.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Yorkie

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Re: Health
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2013, 02:13:42 PM »
I do believe that it would be a good idea and a massive savings in the annual cost of drugs for the NHS if Doctors prescribed a placebo in appropriate cases.  The patient would not need to know, would not be getting addicted (as can happen) and will probably feel better after taking the first dose.
 _))*
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Ian

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Re: Health
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2013, 02:43:36 PM »
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Ian, you are like a dog with an old slipper.The article was for interest and debate, I was not setting myself up as a world authority on all matters, I leave that to your good self.

Snide. If you can't make a reasoned argument why descend to abuse? And if it was for "interest and debate", then why not make it accurate?

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The need to correct everyone for everything at every opportunity only stifles contribution.

No, I only correct you.
Look: you nearly lost us Ludo - whose contributions made a big difference to this place. Accuracy in debate is important.  If you don't think it is, join a forum where accuracy doesn't matter.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.



Yorkie

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Re: Health
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2013, 03:43:22 PM »
Or
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Look: you nearly lost us Ludo - whose contributions made a big difference to this place. Accuracy in debate is important.  If you don't think it is, join a forum where accuracy doesn't matter.


Or even start your own, then you will have complete control!    ZXZ
Wise men have something to say.
Fools have to say something.
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Fester

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Re: Health
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2013, 11:01:55 PM »
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Ian, you are like a dog with an old slipper.The article was for interest and debate, I was not setting myself up as a world authority on all matters, I leave that to your good self.

Snide. If you can't make a reasoned argument why descend to abuse? And if it was for "interest and debate", then why not make it accurate?

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The need to correct everyone for everything at every opportunity only stifles contribution.

No, I only correct you.
Look: you nearly lost us Ludo - whose contributions made a big difference to this place. Accuracy in debate is important.  If you don't think it is, join a forum where accuracy doesn't matter.


Just to address a few of those rather reactionary points, as best as my limited intellect will allow.
I certainly never resorted to any abuse. If the phrase 'like a dog with an old slipper' constitutes abuse, then I can only assume that you have led an incredibly sheltered life.   If any other Forum member thinks that phrase is abusive, please let me know, I will apologise unreservedly!
Instead it was a defensive remark, in response to what I felt was yet another example of tiresome and dismissive aggression.

Does everything posted on this Forum really have to be accurate?
I posted a BBC News article and commented upon it, nothing more.
Now, if EVERYTHING has to be completely accurate, we had better abandon Quiz Time and 99% of the other threads.
Perhaps a Forum is a place for opinion?, and I quite enjoy debate with people who believe differently to me.  I don't feel the need to constantly search for Google articles to undermine and disprove them. I rely on what I THINK, not what people on Google thinks!
However, you have clearly stated today that you only choose to do that to me... so I must conclude that you have something personally against me that drives you to do so.   I have no such agenda.

You say that I caused Ludo to leave the Forum?   When did he leave?  I know he went quiet for a while. I was amongst the first to welcome him back last week. 
I challenged something that Ludo said, and nothing more... but I never suggested he should leave the Forum?
On the other hand, you directly asked Brumbob to go elsewhere.  A massive shame I thought.
Now, for some unknown reason, you are 'suggesting' that I do the same.
Unfortunately, I don't respond well to bullying,  not even the 'intellectual bullying' that you excel at.
So, unless banned by DaveR, (who's Forum this is) then I shall not be going anywhere. Sorry!



Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Ian

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Re: Health
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2013, 08:08:03 AM »
At the risk of prolonging this debate, I will only explain a couple of the points you've made.

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I certainly never resorted to any abuse.

I suspect you and I have different opinions on what constitutes 'abuse'.  You also said

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I was not setting myself up as a world authority on all matters, I leave that to your good self.

You see, I think that is abusive. It clearly attempts to score points - cheap ones, at that - by insinuating that my postings towards you are arrogant (and dismissive, which you mention later.  Oh, and you also accuse me of bullying.). I don't know if you're unaware of how you come over in postings, but to me (and others) that's abusive.

Moving on to accuracy. Of course everything doesn't have to be accurate. When have I ever said it has? But in a topic called 'Health' in a board called 'Science and Technology' then - yes;  I think it ought to be accurate. BTW - when I said I only corrected you, that was pertinent only to this topic (and any other in which facts outweigh unsubstantiated opinion).

But let's examine the timeline. In this topic you made a statement, which was both inaccurate and potentially confusing to readers. I merely posted the facts.  I did it in way I thought was both friendly and sociable. Your response was - I venture to suggest - dismissive:
"Bacteria....viruses....bugs.... call them what you will, they are getting harder to kill"
So I tried, once again, to explain what the real issues were, as I thought you'd raised a very good point. But this is where it got nasty.

Where I thought I'd simply tried to make things clearer, you obviously thought I was actively sabotaging your postings. But instead of confronting me about it, you made a snide aside after Suepp - quite accurately - mentioned 'bugs':

 " Ian is likely to castigate you for using the wrong terminology, thus trivialising and ultimately burying the original and important point you might be making."

That's quite pointed, as subsequent posters indicated by their use of smileys. Now, in any forum, if you choose to start trouble then you will get it back;  that's how forums everywhere operate, and this one is actually more pleasant and civilised than most.

Your next post I would describe as petulant, with your flagrant use of hyperbole and yet still managed to get the point of the original article completely wrong. I responded, yet still attempted to be relatively civil. But that clearly didn't satisfy you, because you then made even more comments, each of which was either untrue or simply absurd.

The sad thing is that a lot of this was unnecessary. The point you brought up was a good one, but I just wanted it to be accurate. I don't want to involve Ludo, and I ought not to have mentioned him, either, but it is a fact that we  - all of us - are often unaware of how what we consider to be jovial asides can impact some others. I could show you where this has happened, but I'll leave it to you to search.

I am not suggesting you go elsewhere; far from it, as I consider the forum is better for having you on board.  But you might bear in mind, when you accuse me of "intellectual bullying' that you excel at." that there are those who feel similarly about your good self. Bullying, like beauty, is often in the mind of the beholder.

Just to correct one misapprehension, BTW, this forum was started by both Dave and me, and from the outset we have had joint ownership, with joint responsibility for what gets written on it.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Yorkie

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Re: Health
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2013, 08:52:55 AM »
I'm on my bike!  :cyclist40:   I feel sick!    :puke2:
Wise men have something to say.
Fools have to say something.
Cicero

DaveR

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Re: Health
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2013, 09:25:56 AM »
The Forum is actually owned by the Three Towns Foundation, a shadowy organisation based in a disused mine working accessible only through the ruins of the Pier Pavilion site. Nothing to do with me, Guv.

Merddin Emrys

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Re: Health
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2013, 10:17:22 AM »
I always suspected that was the case!  aaa.gif  The Illuminati will be behind it all!  ;D
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Fester

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Re: Health
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2013, 11:35:33 AM »
I am perplexed by what I see this morning.
I have now been accused of 'causing trouble' ... and further 'abuse'... also of being 'petulant'

As any responsible person should, I have read my own posts back to myself to see if I can detect any TRACE of such a thing.
(I nearly used the words 'atom', 'particle' , 'molecule' or 'grain' instead of TRACE, but that might have been factually incorrect, this being the Science thread and all!)  ;)

Anyhow, I am satisfied that I am guilty of no such thing. On the contrary, my posts are entirely defensive, whilst Ian's range from condescending to pompous.   Once again, I am only making those comments defensively.
Please anyone (except Ian) feel free to point out if I am wrong.

No matter, as I have said previously, my only regret is posting any article in the first place.  In future it will be links only, (although I know Yorkie will be displeased by that)  But, it will save me having to switch Jeremy Kyle off for a while and deal with the hassle that my commentary seems to attract!

Kind Regards, your ever respectful Fester.


Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Ian

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Re: Health
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2013, 12:19:14 PM »
You know, Fester, I'm never quite certain whether you're demonstrating that facetiousness for which you are so famed, or whether you're actually believing what you write. Having met you in person, you're nothing like your postings, and I've never found you to exhibit or intend the slightest malice. But when you use adjectives like "condescending" and "pompous" then I wonder.

No matter; I'm sure you no more intended to be petulant or abusive than I meant to be condescending or pompous, so perhaps we should leave it there.


Kind Regards; your ever-respectful Ian.
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.”   ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.