Llandudno Jones's - Pwll y Gwichiad and/or Yr Ogof

[KHCYMROCANADA]

Bri Roberts

You’ve been at this way longer than I have, so probably already made this connection, but if not ………

If the above is correct, the Elizabeth Jones (nee Evans) born around 1771 looks like she is the mother to my Richard Jones (b1817) and your John Jones (b1806).

[Bri Roberts]

That has always been my assumption but I have no idea whatever became of my Gt Gt Gt Grandfather, John Jones, of Pwllygwichiad after 1841.

His illegitimate daughter born in 1838 eventually married an Atherton and a great many of her descendants are living in and around Llandudno today.

[Bri Roberts]

By illegitimate, I mean there is no name on the birth certificate but John Jones of Pwllygwichiad is named on the baptism record as being the father.

[Helig]

It gets more fascinating as it goes along.

KHCYMROCANADA, do you have a Family Tree on Ancestry? The reason I ask is that there are several on there for Peter Jones and his descendants. Have you looked at these?

They show Peter Jones born 1767, d1834, Pwllygwichiad who married Elizabeth Ann Boone, b1769, d1851, in Hawarden, Flints. No year of marriage is shown for them. Elizabeth Boone is shown as born Llanberis in 1769. There is no source for this. One tree shows they had 10 children. One daughter, shown, Catherine, has a date of birth as 24/06/1834, how did he manage that as he died in March 1833? Another tree has 9 children and again Catherine born June 1834. Yet another tree shows they had 16 children and connections to the USA.

I wonder where some of the details came from as there are few sources in any of them. There are some photos however.

Like you, I reckon Richard Jones went to Holyhead to work on the railway construction there. The first station was built in 1848 but replaced by a new one in 1851.

I wonder if Elizabeth Jones, wife of Peter is the same Elizabeth Jones shown at Pwllygwichiad in the 1841 census? What do you think?

The other query I have is whether some of the baptisms, marriages etc could be in non conformist chapels. I noticed that Edward's obituary showed he attended a non conformist chapel. Were other family members the same? That may be why some of the baptisms etc cannot be traced.

Incidentally, one of the trees on Ancestry shows Joseph, brother of Edward, as born Liverpool in 1855. It also has Richard Jones b1817, married to Elizabeth Coulborn but there is no source for this.

Have you thought of trying to see if Peter Jones, Richard Jones etc, left Wills? They might give a considerable amount of information in the event
they made these.

Helig

[KHCYMROCANADA]

Helig, the family tree I have is on Ancestry. I have looked at other trees and, so far, have not found them too helpful/reliable.

One of the issues I found is that, often, unverified/unsourced information is copied between trees. Sometimes info is copied across accidentally. I have found trees that contain info copied from mine.

I had both Elizabath Ann Boone and Elizabeth Coulborn in the tree I inherited, and presume they were copied across after exploring “hints”. I could not validate - or even find these people - so deleted.

I am going with the theory that the Elizabeth (age 70 in the 1841 census) is the Elizabeth Evans who married Peter in 1792.

I have posted “screenshots” of the baptisms I found in FindMyPast for Peter and Elizabeth Jones.

I saw the 1855 Joseph but could not verify.

I am not aware of any wills.

My theory of Richard going to Holyhead is speculation - and, as you say, fits with the timing of the railway construction.

If correct, the mystery is where he heads next. I have been unable to follow him and his family - until Edward shows up again in Bangor in 1881. I note that Bri Roberts appears to have a similar mystery with the gaps in his John Jones (Richard’s brother?) details post 1841.

[KHCYMROCANADA]

One theory I have is that, as the Pwllygwichiad farm land was developed - and the copper mine on Gt Orme was winding down (both around 1850?), that many of the Jones men-folk had to move away for work.

[Bri Roberts]

That is correct because another line of my local ancestry moved over to Bethesda to work in the slate mines of the Penrhyn Quarry.

Many years ago, someone provided me with a timeline of sorts for Pwllygwichiad.

I shall try to find the times to search for it and post it here over the Xmas period.

[Hugo]

I've been following this thread with a lot of interest and it seems to be getting closer and closer to getting the answer that KH  has been looking for thanks to contributions from Helig and Bri Roberts  and of course KH
Referring again to Chris Draper's book there are 5 Jones families living on the Morfa which was adjacent to Pwllygwichiad and also some other Jones' who were tenant farmers in Llandudno.       Considering that the population of Llandudno in 1851 was only 1131 the chances of at least some of the Jones' being related is highly probable.    The only problem of course is establishing the link.
I may be wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if at least one other forum member is related to KH

[KHCYMROCANADA]

Yes - getting closer - thank you to all.

Bri - I have searched through the Caernarvonshire records and cannot find my Richard - so was thinking he may have moved further afield - maybe Eastwards to the coal mining areas. My elusive Joseph may have been born away? 

One of my Llanllechid based slate quarryman ancestors did this.

BTW Bri - I also have (other) sides of both my wife's and my family - both Hughes' - that moved from Anglesey to Llanllechid/Bethesda for work at Penrhyn Quarry. So far, however, I don't believe I married a relative!!

[Bri Roberts]

Well mine eventually married a widow from up in Gerlan and took over the running of the bakery.

From memory, this was an Evans and not a Jones 😆

[PhilMick]

Saw this on facebook

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1294237984102043&set=gm.2892150507462428&type=3&theater

[Hugo]

That's very interesting and I presume that Richard Hughes was the same person listed at No 15 in Chris Draper's book ( pg 198 ) it also gives KH  and Bri Roberts another source for any info on the families

[KHCYMROCANADA]

Thank you PhilMick and Hugo.

[Hugo]

I had a look at the online catalogue for the Conwy Archives and this item appeared when I put in "Pwllygwichiad" into their search engine.   The article shows that there is actually a photo of Richard Hughes in the Conwy Archives records
There are only 5 items listed there for Pwllygwichiad but each one may provide an interesting and valuable bit  of info for KH and Bri and importantly there are photos too to put a face to a name

CP137/1
Teitl / Title   Richard Hughes
Ddisgrifiad / Description   copper miner, and a contractor for the building of Marine Drive, Llandudno. He originated in Amlwch, co. Anglesey and came to Llandudno in 1833 to work in the copper mines. In 1834 he married Catherine, dau. Peter and Elizabeth Jones, Pwllygwichiad Farm.

[The importance of this picture cannot be overestimated, as it shows the dress of a typical copper miner, although it is in fact a studio portrait. A later photograph appeared in an article in the Llandudno Advertiser, showing an older Richard Hughes and wife at the same location, the editor of the newspaper c. 1920 being a family member, Arthur R Hughes.

Photographer: W S Laroche, The Rock Studio, Marine Drive, Great Orme. Home address: Ty Fry, Old Road, Llandudno [see advertisement on dorse].

A second article mentions Joseph Jones

CD4/33/10/6
Teitl / Title   DRAFT TRANSER OF MORTGAGE
Ddisgrifiad / Description   1 William Hughes of 1 Castle Street, Conway, gent
2. Joseph Jones of Centre Vale, pa of Llandudno, lodging house keeper
3. Anne Emmons of Plough Inn, town of Kidsgrove, Stafford, widow

Re parcel of land, part of certain field on Pwllygwichiad Farm, by Tudno Street, Llandudno, for securing £500.
Dyddiad / Date   1874 May 15
Graddau / Extent   1 item
Lefel / Level   

[Hugo]

A third article has this

CP137/2
Teitl / Title   Group portrait
Ddisgrifiad / Description   William and Jane Jones

and ? Mr and Mrs William Hughes

.

[Jane Hughes descended from Richard Hughes, who married Catherine Jones of Pwllygwichiad Farm, Llandudno.

[On tin plate. Negative exists]
Dyddiad / Date   c. 1890
Graddau / Extent   1 item

If anyone is interested in the above please visit this link
https://www.conwy.gov.uk/en/Resident/Libraries-Museums-and-Archives/Archives/Search-the-Archives/Online-Catalogue.aspx
Lefel / Level   Item

A 4th article has this letter

CX140/1/6
Teitl / Title   LETTER
Ddisgrifiad / Description   William Hughes to his brother and sister [Arthur's parents?]. Gives family news about Harriet [WH's wife] who has been unwell but is recovering. Comments that his brother and sister have been to a lecture by Spinther James on the subject of Hugh James, Pwllygwichiad. It is many years since that house was demolished: he played there many times. WH saw Spinther James's grave at Llanfwrog near Ruthin. Recounts a story about his preaching and says that at his death his assets were shared out between the Pwllygwichiad family. Grandmother got about £50 and WH delivered it to her at Tre'ddol near Aberystwyth. Sends warmest regards to the naturalist.

Endorsed:
NOTE re George Brookes Jones, son of Thomas Jones, miner, Tan-y-rogo, June 1853.

[Welsh]
Dyddiad / Date   1