Back of George's Crescent, Llandudno

[Hugo]

Just noticed a spelling mistake and it should be Sutherland House not Southerland House

[Cambrian]

Sutherland House is 155 Mostyn Street.

[Hugo]

Thanks very much for finding that out Cambrian     

[Helig]

I am pleased the information was useful. There are a few things that make it a possible marriage for Osian's ancestors. The fact that both their fathers were named Edward and, what appears to be their first born son, was named Edward. John Jones is shown as a butcher and I recall his occupation was given as butcher in one of the census returns. In a post dated 22/11/2019, Osian said that Edward Jones, father of John, was also a butcher.

The two witnesses to the marriage were Edward Jones, presumably father of either John, or Mary, plus Mary Jones. I imagine Mary Jones would have been the mother of one of them, does Osian know if that is correct?

Helig.

[Hugo]

Helig, the more I think about it the more certain I am that it is Osian's relatives.     Apart from all the points that you have raised, the age of John could easily agree with his age of 20 stated in the marriage register.

In the 1871 Census John's age was given as 16, but as the Census was taken on the 2nd April 1871 there is a 75 per cent chance that his birthday in 1871 was after that date.
So assuming that it is correct, if John's birthday was anywhere in between the 3rd April 1871 and the 26th September 1871 then he would have been 20 when he married.

I'm had found John's entry in the 1861 Census but couldn't get the info I wanted as I don't subscribe to any of the Ancestry  sites.   The key word in tracing him was Eirias.    I'll look again next week but finding the house in Somerset is going to be very difficult indeed

[Cambrian]

Hugo

In the 1860s there was a Burlington House in Mostyn Street roughly in the area backing onto Somerset Street.  I'm not sure what exactly it was or when the name changed but it could well be that Burlington Cottage was either behind it - parallel in Somerset Street - or formed an extension off the house itself. A similar case is the Somerset Hotel which has Somerset Cottage immediately behind it.

Its a shame that the names of so many of the properties in Mostyn Street are now disused and forgotten. One of the few which still seems to carry its name is WH Smith - Penrhyn House.

[Hugo]

Thanks Cambrian, that's interesting to know

I found out from the Rates Book of 1882 that a John Jones was living at Burlington Cottage but from the Census records of 1881 that Osian's John was living in Tai Newyddion in Old Colwyn so that John in Llandudno could not be Osian's relative

I don't know where else to look now as the rates books for 1875 to 1880 are missing and I remember that Mostyn Estates had a big fire some time ago and a lot of records were lost in the fire

The address in Somerset Street mat have to remain a mystery but at least Osian knows that the street is Somerset Street as you have posted previously
The layout in Bodafon Street is similar to the way you have described in Somerset Street

[Helig]

Hello Hugo,

I have struggled to find John Jones in the census returns up to now. Ancestry is having a spell of giving people from everywhere but the place put in the search. I think I have him in the 1861 census, the family is living at 3 High St, Colwyn, the household is as follows:

Edward Jones, head, married, age 34, Labourer, born Llanelian yn Rhos, Denbighshire.
Ellinor Jones, wife, age 32, born Llansantfraidd Glan Conwy
Edward Jones, son, age 12, scholar, born as above.
Elisbeth Jones, daughter, age 10, scholar, born Llandrillo, Caerns.
John Jones, son, age 6, born as above.
David Jones, son, age 3, born as above.

Do I have the right person? Can you let me know please?

I have found him in the 1871 now too. I note that in the 1881, John Jones is shown as a Bricklayer.

Helig

[Hugo]

Thanks Helig, that looks very much like the right person.      The age is correct, where he was born is too and he lived in the area where we found him in 1871,

As I have mentioned before,  Llandrillo Yn Rhos covered a big area from Rhos on Sea to Old Colwyn and a bit more too.    Norman Tucker wrote a book called Colwyn Bay and its origins and tells everything about the area and the history       Some of the old boundaries go back to  the time of Edward 1

 

[Cambrian]

As Hugo says, Llandrillo was once a very extensive Ecclesiastical Parish.  Over the years bits were hived off to form other parishes. More recently, in 1844 and 1872 Colwyn, Eirias, and part of the township of Cilgwyn were transferred to the new parish of St Catherine (Old Colwyn).  In 1893 the parish of Colwyn Bay was created from Rhiw, Llwydgoed (Bryn y Maen) and the rest of Cilgwyn.  At that point all that was left of the original Llandrillo were the townships of Mochdre and Dinerth - and even Mochdre was eventually subsumed into Llanrhos.

Hugo - good to hear Norman Tucker's name mentioned.  In addition to his scholarly works - mainly on the Civil War - his historical novels, centred on North Wales, are worth a read and so better written than modern novels.

[Hugo]

I had a look in the Library today and the Census records for 1861 and after looking at all the possibilities I have come to the same conclusion as you Helig

Osian seems to have disappeared but although we haven't been able to find the house Edward lived in we have confirmed the correct street and found relatives in the 1861 Census up to the 1901 Census

[Helig]

This is the trouble when you have a date to go on but it is in between the census returns and the people have moved away. I think that it is going to be impossible to find any more here.

Helig.