Back of George's Crescent, Llandudno

[Osian]

Good Afternoon!

Thank you for allowing me to join the Site.

I'm looking for help to confirm the location of an address in Llandudno in 1875, please.  I have the Birth Certificate of my Granfather, Edward Jones. It states that he was born on the "Sixteenth May 1.20 a.m. 1875 Back George's Crescent Llandudno". The Certificate shows the Birth in the Sub-District of Creuddyn. I have taken it - rightly or wrongly - that "Back of George's Crescent' refers to 'Somerset Street'.  Could anyone help me to prove or disprove that, please?  Perhaps in those days, it referred to another area behind George's Crescent and that I've assumed wrongly that it refers to Somerset Street.

Any help and/or hint would be gratefully appreciated.  Thank you.

Osian

[norman08]

Hi Osian we have a very good member on here, Hugo I'm sure will help you with this good luck  Norman.

[Cambrian]

Osian

Back of George's Crescent is a literal description of what is now Somerset Street.  However, between 1876 and 1910 it was formally known as Back Mostyn Street.  The 1881, 1891 and 1901 Census returns should show this latter name if you are trying to find a specific property.  Hope this helps.

[Osian]

Thank you for that very helpful response. Mostyn Street and George’s (or St George’s) Street both run parallel with Somerset Street - but I’ll have to dig much deeper in order to try to identify the actual address of the birthplace! Thanks again for your time and trouble.

[Hugo]

Hi Osian,     it can be quite confusing finding an address when the street name has changed like Cambrian has pointed out but in the Conwy Archives is a booklet giving the old street names of Llandudno and what the present street name is called.

To find out the exact property of your Grandfather it may be possible to trace it from the Rates Book or even the Census records.  Some of the cottages in the back streets have retained their original Welsh names and you can trace it that way

Your Grandfather's name was interesting because in the back street behind South Parade lived another Edward Jones AKA   Ted Yr Ogof by any chance was Ted in any way related to your Grandfather  eg son or nephew?      The reason I ask is that Ted's son Eddie is also a forum member and may be able to help you in your search

[Ian]

I'm moving this to Genealogy and Research.

[Osian]

Thanks again Hugo. I’m currently at the Dentist. Will respond later.

[Osian]

That’s an intriguing piece of information about Ted yr Ogof!! My Grandfather died in 1948. He married Jane Griffiths. His parents were John and Mary Jones (Jones being Mary’s maiden surname too).Wouldn’t it be quite something if Ted’s son and I are related?!!! Thanks again for such valuable and helpful assistance.

[Blongb]

To add to what has been said, there was also another small lane, which no longer exists, between the back of St Georges Crescent and Somerset Street. My wife told me that in the early 1950's there was still a small holding located there. That being said on the Abstract of Title to our cottage dated 4th January 1890 it does refer to the street as being Somerset Street but on an attached plan of the plot it's marked as Back Mostyn Street.

[Osian]

Thank you for that piece of very useful information.  I have seen Census Returns with the address listed as "Back of St George's Crescent' - but the people who lived in the properties don't appear to have a connection with my Grandfather.  His Birth Certificate has the address hand-written (in beautiful script!) - but it's so frustrating no knowing any more.  I'll keep on looking though.  Thanks again for your time and trouble.

[Hugo]

Osian,  I tried to locate Edward Jones on the 1881 Census but couldn't trace him at all.     Perhaps I was unlucky with my search but had John and Mary Jones moved from the back of St Georges Crescent by then?

If you look on the Census records they were done in some type of order although it is not always obvious,    When you do find the person you are looking for you can scroll forwards or backwards on the Census and make a note of the house names or numbers and that may help to locate the house's present day location.

As Blongb has said Somerset Street has changed considerably over the years with properties demolished and M & S's warehouse etc being built.   I drove slowly down the street when I was in Llandudno today but I could only see one cottage that had a name on it and that was called appropriately Y Bwthyn

Osian, regarding your last comment. what years have you got for Census records that show your Grandfather living there and is it possible to put them on here?

[Osian]

The Census Records that I refer to in my previous post were those that I found when trawling through sheets and sheets of records in Llandudno for circa 1875.  I have not found one that shows either of his parents (John and Mary Jones) living there.  Frustrating!!  His mother, Mary, was from Llansannan and my Grandfather eventually moved
 - and he is clearly shown as living there in 1891 (but with his Grandmother and Aunt) and again in 1901 (with his Aunt, his wife, Jane) and a younger John Jones.

Perhaps his parents died when he was quite a young boy/man.  I have another Census return showing a John Jones, Mary Jones, Edward Jones nad another John Jones living in Taineyddion, Llanddulas.  It confirms that the Mary Jones listed was born in Llansannan. Maybe they were in transit from Llandudno to Llansannan?!!

I genuinely appreciate your thoughts and input - they are invaluable to me. Thanks again.

[Hugo]

Osian, do you know the name of Edward's Grandmother and Aunt who were living in the rear of St Georges Crescent as it may make it easier to find the census record for him?
I'll pop back to the Library asap and have another pop at finding the records

[Osian]

All I currently know is that Edward was born in Llandudno - at back of George’s Crescent. His parents, John and Mary Jones had to have resided there at the time of Edward’s birth - for it to be recorded on his birth cert. When he lived with his grandmother - Jane Wynne and his Aunt, Eleanor/Elin/Elen Jones - it was in what became my own home in Llansannan. Perhaps they moved to Llanddulas (I’m speculating here) and then both parents passed away and he was raised by his Granny and his Aunt.

Thank you again for trying so much to help me. Your efforts are truly appreciated.

[Hugo]

Hi Osian,  I have been in the Conwy Archives today and had a look at a number of records but I'm stumped

First of all I looked at the earliest street index they have for Llandudno and that was for 1911.   Neither Jane Wynne or Elinor Jones was listed but it is possibly that they had died by then

Next I had a look at the 1881 poor rates book as it was called.    It had the tenants and owners of all the properties listed in it for what is now Somerset Street but again Jane Wynne or Elinor Jones was listed in it
There were some Jones' living there but only the men's names were listed

There was no trace of Jane Wynne in the St Tudno or Llanrhos Church graveyards, but there was an Ellen Jones of 4 St George's Crescent who died on 27th Oct 1928? aged 84.   She had been married to a John Jones and they had previously lived at Ty Draw
They were both buried in St Tudno's Church at grave A056,    John died 10th April 1992 aged 48

I had a look at the Llandudno Baptism records from 1875 to 1883 and there was no entry for Edward Jones in the Register

After looking at the paper records I tried on Find My Past and I could not trace Edward Jones on any Census at all  and for that matter couldn't trace Jane Wynne or Elinor Jones either so it's a mystery      Perhaps someone may be able to trace them but crucially you want the 1881 Census for Jane Wynne or Elinor Jones at the Llandudno address