Author Topic: Elizabeth Kerridge living in Llandudno in the 1939 register.  (Read 3657 times)

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Helig

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Elizabeth Kerridge living in Llandudno in the 1939 register.
« on: March 14, 2019, 11:00:53 AM »
I wonder if someone can help me by doing a few local searches. I have seen an entry on the 1939 register which is intriguing. This is for Elizabeth Kerridge, living at Poplars, Clement Avenue, Llandudno. Her date of birth is shown as 8 June 1869 and she states she is a Manageress of a Restaurant.

I suspect she is a relation of mine and am trying to prove this. In an earlier request on this site I asked about the death of an Elizabeth Kerridge living in 2 Clement Avenue in 1947. Hugo kindly gave me some information and it is thought she is a relation. She is someone a number of her descendants are trying to trace after her last appearance in a census in 1911.

What makes it more interesting is that my mother used to talk about a relation who was manageress of The Cocoa House in Llandudno. Could this be the same person?

Is it possible to look at the old Street and Commercial Directories for Llandudno to see if Elizabeth Kerridge was living there prior to 1939? I imagine she could have lived there anytime from the 1920s/1930s. I know these directories used to be kept in Llandudno Library. It would be helpful in trying to establish if she is a relation. Also, does anyone have any knowledge of The Cocoa House in days gone by?

Helig

rhuddlan

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Re: Elizabeth Kerridge living in Llandudno in the 1939 register.
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2019, 12:47:52 PM »
Info re the cocoa house can be found here....
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Hugo

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Re: Elizabeth Kerridge living in Llandudno in the 1939 register.
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2019, 02:34:10 PM »
Hi Helig, I hope that you are ok up there in the Scottish Lowlands with Storm Gareth.   It has been pretty grim here with the winds and rain, not that Rhuddlan would know anything about the weathere here as he has been sunning himself in the Canarys again, lucky B

The Archives have street indexes for I think 1911, 1914, 1922, 1926, 1929, 1939 and another sometime in the early sixties.   These indexes only list one person living at the address and that is usually the head of the family or the breadwinner but with a name like Kerridge they are easy to find.
As far as I am aware the Cocoa House is still going but the entrance is behind Mostyn Street by the Town Hall.
When I next go to the Archives I can have a look at the Street Indexes and will post anything I find on here.

I don't know if you are familiar with The Conwy Archives online catalogue but it's a handy thing to know about.   To get into it you need to go on the CCBC website then click on search.     Put in Conwy Archives and click on it and look for online catalogue where you can do searches
I've done that today and in the search at online catalogue I've put in "Kerridge" and 6 items have turned up, whether they are any good for you I don't know but you'll have to see them for yourself.
You could also put in Cocoa House and see what turns up but it is handy for local research

Helig

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Re: Elizabeth Kerridge living in Llandudno in the 1939 register.
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2019, 10:44:58 AM »
Hello Hugo and Rhuddlan,

Thank you very much for this information.

The search of the street directories would be best started from the 1920s. I didn't know about the  Conwy Archives online catalogue and will see what they have on the Kerridge family.

I was surprised to hear The Cocoa House is still there. All the time I was in Llandudno I never went in there once. We used to go to either Sumners, or Sandbach for coffee, or lunch. In later years The Queens Hotel used to be the favourite. The post about in online was of great interest.

I have just done a search of the Conwy Archives catalogue and found the 6 entries for Kerridge. Five of them relate to members of my family. Some of the details need further investigation, more mysteries by the look of it.

Storm Gareth wasn't too bad, the winds were the worst of it. There was some flooding but nothing serious.

Helig.

Hugo

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Re: Elizabeth Kerridge living in Llandudno in the 1939 register.
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2019, 02:38:29 PM »
Those Street Indexes list the streets in alphabetical order and then list the individual who lives in each house.   Better still is the fact that those individuals are also listed alphabetically in the Street Index so it's easy to find a name like Kerridge.
What I'll do Helig is to go through all the indexes and list any Kerridge that is in the books and leave it up to you to look at them
I'll also see if they have any info on Elizabeth.
The Cocoa House is at 2 George Street and behind the one in the photo.    You go downstairs into a basement area and we used to go there quite often years ago because the food and the atmosphere were so good

Hugo

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Re: Elizabeth Kerridge living in Llandudno in the 1939 register.
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2019, 07:53:06 PM »
Helig,  The Elizabeth Kerridge who was your relative was she born about 1860 and died in 1947 aged 87?       As a matter of interest was she a spinster or did she marry into the Kerridge family?

Hugo

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Re: Elizabeth Kerridge living in Llandudno in the 1939 register.
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2019, 05:01:58 PM »
The Cocoa House which is now in George Street.    By the way I'm hoping to visit the Archives this week all being well



Helig

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Re: Elizabeth Kerridge living in Llandudno in the 1939 register.
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2019, 02:04:02 PM »
Hello Hugo,

Thank you for the photos. I remember seeing The Cocoa House but never ventured in it.

There is no rush to go to the archives.

Elizabeth Kerridge in the 1939 register is thought to be the same Elizabeth Kerridge that died in Llandudno in 1947. The only doubt is that in the 1939 register, her year of birth is shown as 1869, rather than 1859 which is the correct one.

It is a long story this one. My great grandfather, Albert Abraham Kerridge, had an older brother, Henry Francis Kerridge (HFK) born 1860. There was never any mention of HFK by the family and in 2005 a family surfaced in New Zealand who were descended form HFK. They had been unknown to anyone prior to that. One of them came over about 2011 and we did some research to find that HFK had been a solicitor in Brighton and had a breakdown which resulted in him being committed to the Brighton Asylum in 1894. He stayed there until he died in 1921. In the 1881 and 1891 census returns HFK had a wife, Eliza and two daughters, Edith Ethel Kerridge and Gertrude Frances Kerridge. We have searched extensively but cannot find a marriage between HFK and Eliza (maiden name Hayler).

In the 1901 census both Edith and Gertrude were with my great grandparents and their family in Leamington Spa. Eliza was known to be living in Brighton in 1905. In the 1911 census she is living in London with her daughter, Gertrude. Her name in that is Elizabeth Kerridge, widow.

Edith Ethel Kerridge went out to New Zealand in November 1904, she arrived in Wellington and in June 1905, she gave birth to a daughter. The family in NZ descend from this child. Subsequent to that, Edith appears in an electoral roll in Wellington in 1908 but after that there is no trace of her so far.

My great grandparents moved to North Wales in the early 1900s. They had pubs and hotels all over, from the Harp in Corwen to The Station Hotel in Blaenau Ffestiniog. They settled in Conwy, Llandudno Junction and then Llandudno eventually. They were in Llandudno by 1908. Gertrude Kerridge must have moved with them and she is shown as the proprietress of The Gwydyr Hotel in Dolwyddelen when she died in 1913.

It is possible that Elizabeth Kerridge moved up to North Wales, possibly to join her daughter Gertrude. Someone has found an article in an old Welsh paper about a Mrs Kerridge at the Gwydyr Hotel, Dolwyddelen and this is dated 1915. It isn't Gertrude as she died in 1913. We wonder if that is Elizabeth Kerridge.

Nothing more is known about Elizabeth Kerridge until the entry in the 1939 register, then the death registered in 1947.

It is likely she moved to join her daughter, or the Kerridge family. Proving it is something else. The street and commercial directories may answer the query over her.

Helig

Cambrian

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Re: Elizabeth Kerridge living in Llandudno in the 1939 register.
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2019, 02:23:58 PM »
Just a couple of random items from local press.  In April, 1910, the two sons of Mr Kerridge, North Western Hotel, Llandudno Junction, Albert Henry and George Frederick, left for Chester en route to Chatham to join the Clerical Department of the Royal Engineers.

In  October 1910, Mr A.H. Kerridge left the Bridge Hotel, Conway.

Similar items can be seen on the Wales Newpapers Online site.

mull

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Re: Elizabeth Kerridge living in Llandudno in the 1939 register.
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2019, 06:17:28 PM »
As a matter of interest  Hugo , did the property in George Street used to be a Fish café ?
I seem to remember eating in there with my father shortly before he retired and moving back to Llandudno. That would be about 1970 .
At the time it was run by a ships cook and had a very good reputation .

Hugo

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Re: Elizabeth Kerridge living in Llandudno in the 1939 register.
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2019, 07:44:04 PM »
Helig,   I've been to the Archives this afternoon to see what info I could gather about Elizabeth and there isn't much that you don't already know.
I've concentrated entirely on Llandudno and had a look at all the Street Indexes going from 1911 to the early 1960's and there is no entry for Elizabeth.
In fact the only Kerridges that are listed, you already know about them.  There is Albert A Kerridge,  Mrs Amelia Kerridge and S F Kerridge.    The reason for this is because the Street Indexes list the owners of the property and Elizabeth was not the owner of the property

The Poplars and No 2 Clement Avenue are the same.    It was a semi detached property ( see photo and the Poplars is the one on the right and the business was apartments so in fact Elizabeth rented a room there.  I've seen the 1939 Register that you refer to and I have compared this to the 1939 Street Index.  The owner was a Miss M Jones and you will see her entry in the 1939 Register.  The street Index shows that Miss M Jones is the owner

I looked at the 1947 Llandudno Advertiser for an obituary for Elizabeth but there was no record of it.  There was however one for Mrs A A Kerridge in the edition of the 15th February 1947 pg 5 but I think you already have those details

The 1939 Register shows Elizabeth's DOB as the 8th June 1869 and her occupation as Manageress Restaurant but although the lady in the Archives went to a lot of trouble it was impossible to say which restaurant she worked at.

Just as an additional bit of info and no connection whatsoever to Elizabeth's time at the Poplars I found this online:-
 According to the Llandudno Advertiser, Belgian civilian refugees were billeted at The Poplars’, Clement Avenue

I couldn't find a grave for Elizabeth in the local area and was wondering if she could have been buried with a family member elsewhere

Hugo

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Re: Elizabeth Kerridge living in Llandudno in the 1939 register.
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2019, 08:26:49 PM »
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As a matter of interest  Hugo , did the property in George Street used to be a Fish café ?
I seem to remember eating in there with my father shortly before he retired and moving back to Llandudno. That would be about 1970 .
At the time it was run by a ships cook and had a very good reputation .


I'm not sure Mull as I can only remember it as the Cocoa House but I do know from the Street Indexes that it was a cafe at one time and they must have renamed it the Cocoa house as it was part of the original building.   It had a nice menu when I looked at it yesterday, very tempting indeed.

Helig

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Re: Elizabeth Kerridge living in Llandudno in the 1939 register.
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2019, 10:28:39 AM »
Thank you for all your efforts, Hugo. Also thanks to Rhuddlan for that information.

The fact that 2 Clement Ave and Poplars, Clement Ave, are one and the same place makes me certain that this is the same person. Elizabeth would have stayed there until she died by the look of it.

My theory is that she moved up to join her daughter, Gertrude and stayed in North Wales until she died. She wouldn't have been well provided for to my knowledge. I doubt it will be possible to prove this so it will be another mystery in the Kerridge family.

Thanks again.

Helig.


Hugo

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Re: Elizabeth Kerridge living in Llandudno in the 1939 register.
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2019, 12:22:22 PM »
Helig, just to clarify something about Elizabeth, was she married to Henry Francis Kerridge and was her maiden name Hayler?

The reason I'm curious is because her date of birth was given as the 8th June 1869 and there is no matching birth record in the BMD records I've seen.
There is an Elizabeth Hayler born in 1869 and registered in Cuckfield but that was in the December quarter so it couldn't be her
What I think may have happened to agree with your thinking that she was born in 1860 is that she lied to the people who knew her in Llandudno.
In the 1939 Register she was a manageress for a restaurant and would have been 79 at the time which was quite old for working so she may have deducted a few years off her age when talking to people but her birthday on the 8th June would remain as correct.

There is an Elizabeth Hayler whose birth was registered in the June quarter of 1860 in Reigate and that would fit in with what you have said

As for the place of burial that's a mystery for now

Helig

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Re: Elizabeth Kerridge living in Llandudno in the 1939 register.
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2019, 10:19:22 AM »
Hello Hugo,

Eliza/Elizabeth was the partner of Henry Francis Kerridge. No marriage can be found. I suspect that they got together when they were both under age (in 1881 they have a daughter, Edith Ethel born that year) and it could be Henry's parents didn't approve of her.

The birth and baptism were in Arundel, Sussex, and she was registered as Eliza Hayler. She was born on 26 June 1859.

I think there are two possibilities for her age being incorrect in the 1939 register:

1) there was a mistake in the transcription, or the enumerator got it wrong, or

(2) she falsified her age for reasons you suggest.

She seems to have changed her name to Elizabeth in the early 1900s as she is living under that name in The Dyke Hotel, Devil's Dyke, Brighton in 1905. In the 1911 census, she is Elizabeth Kerridge, widow.

Thanks again.

Helig.