Author Topic: Stop Press  (Read 573697 times)

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Offline DaveR

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Re: Stop Press
« Reply #495 on: November 24, 2012, 10:56:20 am »
I've been along the A55 by Aber today and took the opportunity to see what the drainage is actually like. As far as I can see, it's rubbish. Considering the massive area of land that water drains off on the higher side of the road, there appears to be only a small french drain and the original 1960s road drains to cope with all the water - no surprise that the road floods then! The solution is not difficult (or particularly expensive) - a large drainage channel running along the field side of the hedge that adjoins the A55, that collects the water running off the fields and sends it under the road.

The section that caused the largest problem is in a dip by Tal Y Bont, a stream that usually flows under the road became obstructed and decided to flow onto the road. However, the River Ogwen flows under the A55 less than a hundred yards away - again, not difficult to construct a large culvert that would drain away flood water into the Ogwen in extreme weather conditions.

It's probably impossible to construct a drainage system that will deal with all eventualities. However, it not difficult to construct one that will ensure the road is clear again within, say, 30 minutes of the rain stopping.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Stop Press
« Reply #496 on: November 24, 2012, 11:13:33 am »
Ian48, you're missing the point that I was trying to make. No road is cheap to construct and the terrain in North Wales would also add to any cost.  Whether it was the costliest at the time, I'll take your word for it but that doesn't excuse the cost cutting that went on during the planning and construction of it.
For a start there should have been a hard shoulder on the road through Colwyn Bay and sound absorbing tarmac laid during not after construction.  Next we have the slip roads in Llanddulas,Colwyn Bay and Mochdre all of which are too short and potentially dangerous.  Penmaenmawr has no sliproads whatsoever and as for the westerly one at Tal Y Bont, it has a stop sign and is potentially lethal!
The Penmaenbach Tunnel was originally going to be a 4 lane tunnel as you would  expect but then on the basis of cost they used the original road for the two lanes of the westerly flowing traffic.   So now we possibly have the only permanent  30 mph stretch  of expressway in the World.
If you are travelling Westwards on the A55 and  go past two roundabouts and it is not flooded again and traffic halted for 6 hours (AM's are looking into this)  you then go into a single lane to cross the Brittania Bridge.
Would this happen in South Wales or South East England, you tell me?   


Offline Yorkie

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Re: Stop Press
« Reply #497 on: November 24, 2012, 11:26:46 am »
I think one must bear in mind that the A55 is not, and was never intended, to be of Motorway standard construction.   At the time it was a means to an end, to relieve the old narrow North Wales road and get traffic moving faster and by-pass the many towns and villages on the route from Chester to Holyhead. 
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Offline DaveR

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Re: Stop Press
« Reply #498 on: November 24, 2012, 11:43:35 am »
It is part of a major European route, E22, is it not?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_route_E22

Offline Yorkie

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Re: Stop Press
« Reply #499 on: November 24, 2012, 12:14:52 pm »
It is part of a major European route, E22, is it not?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_route_E22

Indeed it is but isn't the European Road Network just an agreed numbering system designating major routes?  The E22 is over 5000 miles long and I cannot see it all being of Motorway Standard.
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Offline SDQ

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Re: Stop Press
« Reply #500 on: November 24, 2012, 01:35:13 pm »
Reverting to Mull's comments about trains and electrification, there's also the point that we used enjoy direct links with Liverpool and Manchester via rail.  Now, it's impossible for anyone to reach us from either of those major conurbations without at least one change at Chester. I'd have thought it made sense in tourist terms to have direct services from both places, especially now that rail travel has entered a renaissance and is proving so popular. 


You're half right. You need to change at Chester when travelling to/from Liverpool but there is an hourly direct service from Manchester serving the North Wales coast. Also I may be wrong but I think that even if they did electrify the coast you would still need to change at Chester for Liverpool as they run the 750v DC third rail system not the 25kv AC OHL system.
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Offline Jack

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Re: Stop Press
« Reply #501 on: November 24, 2012, 01:57:24 pm »
Just asking but wasn't the railway shut as well on Thursday during the floods?  I take it that it would have been electrified or not?

Offline SDQ

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Re: Stop Press
« Reply #502 on: November 24, 2012, 02:21:46 pm »
Just asking but wasn't the railway shut as well on Thursday during the floods?  I take it that it would have been electrified or not?


Flooding would lead to railway services being suspended regardless of which system is used to power the trains as the infrastructure is what would be affected. If static floodwater is above rail head level or is running across the tracks at any level then the regulations forbid trains to move as it is impossible to ascertain the condition of the track & ballast may have been washed away.
On Thursday there was the added problem that a piece of infrastructure needed to be inspected but because the road was also flooded it could not be reached in the usual way so it took time to decide the best plan of action & instigate it.
Valar Morghulis

Offline Jack

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Re: Stop Press
« Reply #503 on: November 24, 2012, 03:04:50 pm »
Thanks SDQ, I thought I had seen somewhere that services terminated at Junction but wasn't sure.

Offline DaveR

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Re: Stop Press
« Reply #504 on: November 24, 2012, 03:21:39 pm »
It is part of a major European route, E22, is it not?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_route_E22

Indeed it is but isn't the European Road Network just an agreed numbering system designating major routes?  The E22 is over 5000 miles long and I cannot see it all being of Motorway Standard.
I bet the bits in Germany are.....

Offline Yorkie

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Re: Stop Press
« Reply #505 on: November 24, 2012, 03:25:22 pm »
Flooding would lead to railway services being suspended regardless of which system is used to power the trains as the infrastructure is what would be affected. If static flood water is above rail head level or is running across the tracks at any level then the regulations forbid trains to move as it is impossible to ascertain the condition of the track & ballast may have been washed away.
On Thursday there was the added problem that a piece of infrastructure needed to be inspected but because the road was also flooded it could not be reached in the usual way so it took time to decide the best plan of action & instigate it.

Maybe then, the same question could be asked about the Railways as has been asked about the A55.   Why were the railways not built with consideration for adverse conditions?   ZXZ
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Offline Yorkie

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Re: Stop Press
« Reply #506 on: November 24, 2012, 03:27:59 pm »

I bet the bits in Germany are.....

Verdammen Sie! Ich habe daran nicht gedacht!     WWW

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Offline SDQ

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Re: Stop Press
« Reply #507 on: November 24, 2012, 03:38:02 pm »
Flooding would lead to railway services being suspended regardless of which system is used to power the trains as the infrastructure is what would be affected. If static flood water is above rail head level or is running across the tracks at any level then the regulations forbid trains to move as it is impossible to ascertain the condition of the track & ballast may have been washed away.
On Thursday there was the added problem that a piece of infrastructure needed to be inspected but because the road was also flooded it could not be reached in the usual way so it took time to decide the best plan of action & instigate it.

Maybe then, the same question could be asked about the Railways as has been asked about the A55.   Why were the railways not built with consideration for adverse conditions?   ZXZ


With respect there is nothing wrong with the A55 or the railway, it is the surrounding area that caused the problem.
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Offline Yorkie

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Re: Stop Press
« Reply #508 on: November 24, 2012, 04:16:42 pm »

With respect there is nothing wrong with the A55 or the railway, it is the surrounding area that caused the problem.

Sorry SDQ, was not criticising your comment, merely using it as a last reference point?    In fact I tend to agree with what you say.   
 $good$
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Offline Hugo

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Re: Stop Press
« Reply #509 on: November 24, 2012, 04:19:18 pm »

With respect there is nothing wrong with the A55 or the railway, it is the surrounding area that caused the problem.

Sorry SDQ, was not criticising your comment, merely using it as a last reference point?    In fact I tend to agree with what you say.   
 $good$

I suppose that you could equate that to building houses on a flood plain then.   They were aware of the problems but didn't have adequate drainage to cope with downpours, but isn't that bad planning?