Stop Press

[born2run]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-29643652

Details for littering fines on the BBC website today. This was discussed elsewhere on the Forum but I can't find it.
Conwy leads the way on revenue earning £176K. If all fixed penalties are £80 that accounts for £131K.
They might be handing out the fines but folk are still dropping the rubbish.

An alarming number in the difference between fines issued and fines paid in Conwy and Denbighshire.
So there are plenty of appeals going on and being successfully overturned   D)
As  I suspected these money grabbers are only interested in their personal KPIs and fining as much victims as they can get away with - I bet a lot more would have been overturned but people don't want the hassle of appealing. Time that these Moderated were off our streets for good they make no difference to the amount of litter dropped but are good at scaring away tourists and intimidating vulnerable people.

[SteveH]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-29643652
Details for littering fines on the BBC website today. This was discussed elsewhere on the Forum but I can't find it.
Conwy leads the way on revenue earning £176K. If all fixed penalties are £80 that accounts for £131K.

Other posts on litter wardens on "Obstacles to Tourism in Llandudno"     

Dave....Hand warmers!... WWW    B2R...Agreed..  " scaring away tourists and intimidating vulnerable people." 

[Dave]

Might as well post this here now !
I hate littering and there is in my opinion usually no excuse if it's deliberate. I can see that on occasion it's accidental. I know someone who has a grass cutting contract who tells me they always pay special attention around petrol stations on dual carriageways as drivers pay for the petrol and often put their change on the dashboard as they drive off with the window open.They have found a surprising number of notes amongst the rubbish.
We could have the same opinion of traffic wardens as  litter wardens( they have another title too, I forget what). As a driver we all despise them as they often pounce on a vehicle that is minutes out of time but on the other hand do we really want our main shopping streets occupied by the same selfish vehicles all day ? For a visitor to Llandudno I do think that parking might be allowed for longer on the prom in the mornings as a ticket there would certainly leave a nasty taste and it's not easy to find an alternative if you are staying in an hotel around say the St Georges or Chatsworth.
Must admit last week I watched a white van parked on the pavement outside what was Hooson's Chemist get a ticket. A wardens council van with flashing hazard lights was parked on the section of road leading up to the roundabout from the prom which has lines painted on it. This isn't just a parking infringement, it's an endorsable offence. A visitor was with me and I got him to take a photo, he's gone home to Germany and I haven't got a copy but you should have seen the face of pure unadulterated hatred on the wardens face as he suddenly realised he was being photographed. I hope he's had a few sleepless nights wondering if it will appear somewhere.
It might yet if you are reading this "mate" !

[Yorkie]

What you have said, Dave, is admirable!  One small point, Council vehicles are exempt from the Parking restrictions as they require to park to do their jobs. This, litterally means virtually everywhere, including approaches to Pedestrian crossings.

[Michael]

 I am a bit confused here. Are we talking about two vehicles---or a council flashing light vehicle being photographed by a traffic warden?
  Another small point, Yorkie. If the criteria is "they have to park to do their job."  I guess that covers around 90 per cent of the potential working drivers who need to park.   Gosh, what an easy time I would have had as a coach driver stopping my coach outside M and S so that my passengers could get off.  I wish

[SteveH]

RefB2R..An alarming number in the difference between fines issued and fines paid in Conwy and Denbighshire.
So there are plenty of appeals going on and being successfully overturned

Hi B2R...Taking into account the overturned fines, it does not make sense?

Quote from: Dave on Today at 04:17:05 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-29643652  figures below from link.   Welsh government statistics

FP Issued  2,359              FP Paid   1,646              Amount collected     =£176,925   

The figure of £176,925 equates to 2,359 tickets @ £75 but they say they have only collected for 1,646 which would equate to £123,450 a difference of £53,425 .?

And the council only receives £35.00 of each fine.   1,646 @ £35.00  =£57,610.?

So as far as I can tell (Check the figures please) somebody is playing games.     
The other authority figures do not add up either?

[Yorkie]

As Einstein said, "There are lies, damned lies and statistics!"   Don't believe any of them!
 ZXZ

[Ian]

So as far as I can tell (Check the figures please) somebody is playing games.     
The other authority figures do not add up either?

Your figures are correct, Steve. It's possible that the BBC reporter didn't check them before copying them into their article.

[DaveR]

As Einstein said, "There are lies, damned lies and statistics!"   Don't believe any of them!
 ZXZ

That quote is usually attributed to Mark Twain. 

[SteveH]

So as far as I can tell (Check the figures please) somebody is playing games.     
The other authority figures do not add up either?

Your figures are correct, Steve. It's possible that the BBC reporter didn't check them before copying them into their article.

Hi Ian, It is strange that non of the authority figures match up, but it does raise the question of "CBCC bad management" as discussed on other threads, these are simple figures, whoever is in charge should have picked it up.
I would still like to know if CBCC has £176,925 or have they assumed that amount, by issuing 2359 tickets.
It appears to be another example of CBCC thinking, or lack off, especially with the "Cuts" coming up.
Look after the pennies, and the pounds will look after themselves

[Yorkie]

As Einstein said, "There are lies, damned lies and statistics!"   Don't believe any of them!
 ZXZ

That quote is usually attributed to Mark Twain. 

I thought you were correct until I found this!   ZXZ

The term was popularised in the United States by Mark Twain (among others), who attributed it to the 19th-century British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli (1804–1881): "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

[DaveR]

If you read on a bit further in that Wikipedia article, you'll see that it was incorrectly attributed to Disraeli, as it first appeared after his death. 

[Ian]

 An early reference to the expression, which may explain Twain's assertion, is found in a speech made by Leonard H. Courtney, (1832-1918), later Lord Courtney, in New York in 1895:

    'After all, facts are facts, and although we may quote one to another with a chuckle the words of the Wise Statesman, "Lies - damn lies - and statistics," still there are some easy figures the simplest must understand, and the astutest cannot wriggle out of.’

There's no indication that by 'Wise Statesman' Courtney was referring to any specific person, although it may be that Twain thought that he meant Disraeli.

[Yorkie]

The plot thickens!   

[Dave]

As far as litter pollution goes this makes sobering reading
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29631332