Author Topic: Stop Press  (Read 583096 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Fester

  • Ad Free Member.
  • *
  • Posts: 6660
  • El Baldito
Re: Stop Press
« Reply #105 on: May 04, 2011, 11:31:46 pm »
I'm with Yorkie and others on this.

When I was a kid I often got a clout from parents, or a teacher or a policeman.
It taught me to either FEAR them or RESPECT them.
Either way, I certainly didn't have contempt for them.

Sadly, since the demise of corporal punishment, society had slid very badly into reverse.
Crime, and petty crime such as befell the RNLI, is rife because the perpetrators know they face little of no consequences.

If you cause someone PAIN or severe inconvenience, they are most unlikely to risk offending again.
Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8953
Re: Stop Press
« Reply #106 on: May 05, 2011, 07:32:58 am »
Quote
Sadly, since the demise of corporal punishment, society had slid very badly into reverse.
Crime, and petty crime such as befell the RNLI, is rife because the perpetrators know they face little of no consequences.

But that's simply not true. Crime was far worse when punishments were far more severe.  In fact, there seems to be a correlation between the increasing severity of punishment and an increase in crime.  And Yorkie was talking about examining the penal systems of Sweden and Germany, for instance, but it's those countries that abolished corporal punishment well before we did.

There was a book published last year, Tough Times and Grisly Crimes: A History of Crime in Northumberland and County Durham by Nigel Green. Extracts from the book  give some figures and stories that show a little of what things were like in the past. Newcastle was plagued by juvenile crime in Victorian times; it was dealt with very harshly to little effect. In 1851 alone, 663 children were arrested in Newcastle, when the population was a quarter of what it is now.

One boy, Francis Dixon, was given six lashes at the age of nine for stealing oranges. A year later he was given ten lashes for stealing apples. He went on to become a career criminal. So pain didn't have much effect then.

People still have a strange faith in the idea that a few strokes of the whip is all that's needed to procure law and order and good behaviour. It didn't work in the past and there's no reason to think it would work now.

Those who promote hanging and flogging should also remember that there are inevitable miscarriages of justice, owing to faulty witness statements, poor procedures, inadequate case work, criminal conspiracies by police officers and revenge by those with axes to grind, to name but five of the most common reasons behind sentence rescinding and consequent payouts to those wrongly accused.

It's easy to read "The Police have arrested so-and-so on suspicion..." and assume the worst, but - fortunately - we live in a country which requires reasonable proof of wrongdoing and which asserts that people are innocent until proven guilty.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.


Offline Fester

  • Ad Free Member.
  • *
  • Posts: 6660
  • El Baldito
Re: Stop Press
« Reply #107 on: May 05, 2011, 09:12:39 am »
I can't provide statistics to back up my theory, but it is human nature.
I for one, behaved very nicely in the classes of those teachers who had administered a clip round my ear previously.
Those who were 'a softer touch' had to put up with a high degree of hassle.

To say that it does not deter crime if the consequences are severe seems frankly ludicrous to me.
It is tantamount to saying that the moment that you put up an electrified fence, people will climb it even more than the non-electrified one next door.

Nice to see you again yesterday Mr Ian, (and Mrs Ian)  ..you have certainly lost some weight Sir.



Fester...
- Semper in Excretum, Sole Profundum Variat -

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8953
Re: Stop Press
« Reply #108 on: May 06, 2011, 07:53:23 am »
Quote
I for one, behaved very nicely in the classes of those teachers who had administered a clip round my ear previously.

I'd suggest that was probably because you were brought up well by your parents. You were therefore conditioned to behave within acceptable bounds, and developed an innate respect for authority figures. That's why you pay your car tax promptly...  WWW

Quote
To say that it does not deter crime if the consequences are severe seems frankly ludicrous to me.

I think the facts speak for themselves. Criminality  - which is what we're discussing rather than simply bad behaviour - seems to be down to the childhood experiences of the individual, and some of those would make you shudder.
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Ian

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 8953
Re: Stop Press
« Reply #109 on: May 06, 2011, 07:54:41 am »
Quote
Nice to see you again yesterday Mr Ian, (and Mrs Ian)

And it was good to see you again, F.   $good$
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.  ― Michel de Montaigne

Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes.

Offline Yorkie

  • Member
  • Posts: 5255
Re: Stop Press
« Reply #110 on: May 08, 2011, 10:58:19 am »
Mail modified and content removed.
Wise men have something to say.
Fools have to say something.
Cicero

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: Stop Press
« Reply #112 on: May 12, 2011, 09:12:19 am »
"TRIBUTES have been paid to a popular walker who died after a cliff fall off the Great Orme.

Retired civil servant Vincent Wilfred Pinnington, 82, is believed to have been birdwatching when he plunged 75ft down a steep slope.

A yachtsman spotted his body on Sunday afternoon and an RNLI crew recovered his body.

A pathologist has given the provisional cause of death of Mr Pinnington, of Harlech Road, Llandudno as multiple injuries due to a fall. An inquest had been opened and adjourned."

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2011/05/12/man-who-fell-from-the-great-orme-a-fantastic-chap-55578-28678955/

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: Stop Press
« Reply #113 on: May 12, 2011, 09:13:41 am »
"PLANS to build a miniature railway on Llandudno’s West Shore were given the go ahead this week.

Proposals to erect a 536m miniature railway track on derelict land behind the Dale Road Cafe were approved by Conwy planners yesterday.

The attraction, backed by the North Wales Model Engineering Society (NWHES), will include a clubhouse, a shelter for passengers, and a tunnel.

Mike Brown of the NWHES said he was confident the new attraction could boost tourism and generate interest in railways."

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2011/05/12/miniature-railway-s-green-light-for-llandudno-55578-28678954/

Offline Merddin Emrys

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4426
Re: Stop Press
« Reply #114 on: May 12, 2011, 10:15:37 am »
"PLANS to build a miniature railway on Llandudno’s West Shore were given the go ahead this week.


I find this puzzling

'At yesterday's planning meeting, Cllr Jason Weyman said the NWHES’s report was misleading, and he believed the attraction would cause pollution.'

Not much pollution really from model steam engines is there

A pigeon is for life not just Christmas

Offline DaveR

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 13712
Re: Stop Press
« Reply #115 on: May 12, 2011, 10:25:37 am »
Perhaps he means noise pollution?

Offline Yorkie

  • Member
  • Posts: 5255
Re: Stop Press
« Reply #116 on: May 12, 2011, 10:36:42 am »
And a side benefit may be that it would keep the seagulls away!   ;D
Wise men have something to say.
Fools have to say something.
Cicero

Offline Pendragon

  • Ad Free Member.
  • *
  • Posts: 2927
Re: Stop Press
« Reply #117 on: May 12, 2011, 11:06:26 am »
Unless they sell food (and they will) in which case more attacks would take place!
Only hindsight has 20/20 vision
Angiegram - A romantic notion derived from the more mundane truth.

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

Offline mull

  • Management board member
  • *
  • Posts: 748
Re: Stop Press
« Reply #118 on: May 12, 2011, 11:07:19 am »
At last something good happening at West Shore.
 :D

Offline Yorkie

  • Member
  • Posts: 5255
Re: Stop Press
« Reply #119 on: May 12, 2011, 11:55:07 am »
Unless they sell food (and they will) in which case more attacks would take place!

They already do sell food at the Cafe!   :P
Wise men have something to say.
Fools have to say something.
Cicero