West Shore Issues

[wrex]

The stones where put on the West Shore so the tide would run up the stones,problem is nobody bothered to think the sand might do the same thing.

[Hugo]

I was on the West Shore again today and took these photos and must say that it gives me no pleasure in showing them just to prove my point.
In the photos there is no White Rabbit.  no Penmorfa Hotel  but just piles of sand in the boating lake, in the White Rabbit pond and where the lawned area used to be.   Don't forget either that the lawned area was much worse a year or two ago but most of the sand was removed so that they could gain access to a metal opening that was buried under about 3 feet of sand.
This man made problem has been made worse over the years because the idiots from CCBC allowed the sand to be put back over the wall but above the high water mark.   This meant that the accumulated sand was dry and therefore came back over the wall much easier than before.
All these idiots needed to do was get a licence from DEFRA and they could have dumped it below the high water mark but they didn't for some unknown reason.
Sometimes man's intervention with nature can help and I'm old enough to remember Rhos on Sea often flooding  years ago, but when they build the breakwater in Rhos it broke the force of the waves and the flooding problem that Rhos once had has been greatly reduced.
With the Rhos breakwater though it wasn't connected to the shore unlike the one at West Shore.
Like others on the forum I am old enough to remember how it once was and have nice memories of that time.

[norman08]

Ok what time were you there ,I was there about one , that grass area was redone at a cost of over £ 30  thousand and as you can see it's worse than it was . Even the lads moving the sand last week agreed it will be back over soon ,you couldn't,t make it up with this stupid council .

[Hugo]

I was there about 3.30pm  after I went to the Archives but I did drive down the Promenade in case you were there.    That's a complete waste of £30K    someone is making a good living out of clearing the sand.   It'll be the boating lake next then the cycle track and then back to the promenade again as the Winter storms haven't finished yet.

By the way Norman where are the lads dumping the sand now?    Is it above or below the high water mark?

[white rabbit]

Hugo - I love that old photo of West Shore - just how I remember it

[mull]

Well said Hugo.
My parents returned to Llandudno in the eary 1970s and went to live close to West Shore after my father retired.
At that time I had ayoung family and was living in Bristol and can remember many happy holidays at West Shore.
I also remember them building the sea defenses in the early 1950s and what a good job they made of it. There was plenty of depth on the seaward side and no problem with sand.
I can still remember my father forecasting what would happen if they went ahead. He was not the only one who could see what was coming but, hey, what do the locals know.
All very sad, and man made.

[norman08]

They were spreading the sand on the beach by the toll gate , and below that pump station ,just like the other times above the water mark ,the guy I was talking to he said someone else would be clearing the cycle path ,(that will take months to clear ) ,can,t wait to see the mess they make when they dump the rocks on that beach .

[Hugo]

Thanks Norman, nothing surprises me about the stupid antics of CCBC.   I told Cllr Priestly about that inane practise a few years ago but hey ho nothing changes.
By the way, can you remember playing in those WWII  lookout places that were on the sandhills just past where the old water board property is now?

[majormellons]

I do find it rather odd when people complain about sand.

When I moved to West Shore, by the beach, with a prevailing SW breeze, I assumed, and expected, sand to be blown about a bit.
I wasn't wrong.

What do people expect?

I presume from your lack of knowledge of the area that you are not from Llandudno.   The sea defence at Wesr Shore  was completed in 1952 and to the best of my knowledge and belief the sea never came over the 2885 foot long defence and neither did the sand.   The sea defence built in the 1980's was build because " it was being undermined"  in other words too little sand to protect the steps.
The Council in their wisdom decided to increase the level of the beach by 10 foot or more and in the 1980's or thereabouts the problems started.
The problems at the West Shore are entirely man made, not by the powers of nature which you seem to suggest and was constructed as the cheapest option available and didn't take into account the conditions which should have been obvious to anyone living in the town.
Just in case you have any lingering doubt as to who is correct, here is a photo of the White Rabbit statue before the 1980's

Lived here all my life, I'm just not as old as some on here, so no need to get all defensive!

[Hugo]

I do find it rather odd when people complain about sand.

When I moved to West Shore, by the beach, with a prevailing SW breeze, I assumed, and expected, sand to be blown about a bit.
I wasn't wrong.

What do people expect?

I presume from your lack of knowledge of the area that you are not from Llandudno.   The sea defence at Wesr Shore  was completed in 1952 and to the best of my knowledge and belief the sea never came over the 2885 foot long defence and neither did the sand.   The sea defence built in the 1980's was build because " it was being undermined"  in other words too little sand to protect the steps.
The Council in their wisdom decided to increase the level of the beach by 10 foot or more and in the 1980's or thereabouts the problems started.
The problems at the West Shore are entirely man made, not by the powers of nature which you seem to suggest and was constructed as the cheapest option available and didn't take into account the conditions which should have been obvious to anyone living in the town.
Just in case you have any lingering doubt as to who is correct, here is a photo of the White Rabbit statue before the 1980's

Lived here all my life, I'm just not as old as some on here, so no need to get all defensive!

Well that does explain it then, you must be too young to remember how it was before the sea defences of the 1980's were put there.     But it doesn't explain why you can't grasp what has happened since.   

[majormellons]

I do find it rather odd when people complain about sand.

When I moved to West Shore, by the beach, with a prevailing SW breeze, I assumed, and expected, sand to be blown about a bit.
I wasn't wrong.

What do people expect?

I presume from your lack of knowledge of the area that you are not from Llandudno.   The sea defence at Wesr Shore  was completed in 1952 and to the best of my knowledge and belief the sea never came over the 2885 foot long defence and neither did the sand.   The sea defence built in the 1980's was build because " it was being undermined"  in other words too little sand to protect the steps.
The Council in their wisdom decided to increase the level of the beach by 10 foot or more and in the 1980's or thereabouts the problems started.
The problems at the West Shore are entirely man made, not by the powers of nature which you seem to suggest and was constructed as the cheapest option available and didn't take into account the conditions which should have been obvious to anyone living in the town.
Just in case you have any lingering doubt as to who is correct, here is a photo of the White Rabbit statue before the 1980's

Lived here all my life, I'm just not as old as some on here, so no need to get all defensive!

Well that does explain it then, you must be too young to remember how it was before the sea defences of the 1980's were put there.     But it doesn't explain why you can't grasp what has happened since.   

I do have the mental capacity to grasp, thank you.
As you have mentioned, I am too young, and only moved to West Shore in 2001, so I have only known the current situation.

I bow to your far superior age, and consider my self a better person, for being able to listen to your wealth of knowledge.

Whatever works were done on West Shore, whether ill conceived or not, were, I'm sure, done with the best intentions.
If you don't like the outcome, you have the freedom to move to the quaint village of Coton in the Elms (The Ordnance Survey has calculated it is the furthest point from the sea in all the UK).

I still think that if people don't like sand, don't live by a beach.

Queue the next lecture.....

[norman08]

I,m sure your mam must have taken you to the west shore before the council messed it up ,WE want the sand on the beach not over the wall and the roads , you must be old enough to remember how good it was as my lads are younger than you and remember it .

[Cambrian]

Just an aside.  Most contributors refer to sand dunes at West Shore.  I wonder how these came to be there if not by wind-blown sand. The dunes clearly predate any work by the "stupid council" whether in the 1980s or later.

[Hugo]

I remember the sand dunes reaching as far as the car park but they were removed when the houses and cafe were built.    Even I am not old enough to remember them any nearer the Orme although they may have been.
I do remember the sea defence in the 1950's though and also the beach.  The beach wasn't the best anyway as it was mainly hard compact wet sand due to the fact that the tide covered it twice a day.
The sea currents there flow quickly from the direction of the Orme and that may account for sand being deposited and blown onto where the sand dunes are but it's only a guess.    It's obvious that the dunes were formed by the prevailing westerly winds as you can see from the infamous cycle path
That's a hat trick or three own goals for the CCBC    the 1980's West Shore sea defence,   the north shore sea defence and the cycle path.

[majormellons]

I,m sure your mam must have taken you to the west shore before the council messed it up ,WE want the sand on the beach not over the wall and the roads , you must be old enough to remember how good it was as my lads are younger than you and remember it .

To be honest, as a kid, I never took much interest in the Aeolian processes and coastal management...I made sand castles and paddled.

I once caught crabs, but that's another story.