Author Topic: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno  (Read 8673 times)

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Meleri

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #150 on: December 02, 2019, 01:36:25 PM »
Sorry Jeff but the records for Awards don't have the Date of Birth on them.

Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #151 on: December 02, 2019, 03:25:55 PM »
The death indexes after 1969 actually have the date of birth on them, however I had a search at the Library today and I've also done it in the past but could not find a match for your Robert

I also tried the death index for 1968 and prior but the only ones that came up were in the name of Robert W Roberts and there were no good matches apart from one that caught my eye
There is no evidence whatsoever to link it with your relative but you did mention in one of your earlier postings that Robert's sister got married and moved to Durham.

The one I saw was a death in Hartlepool which isn't that far from Durham, anyway the details are:-
Robert W Roberts   aged 75  the death was registered in the December quarter at Hartlepool   Vol1A     PG 1048.
The chances of him being your relative are only very slim as Robert was born on 26th Oct 1892  so the date of death would have had to be before the 26th Oct 1968  ( possibly late Sept or early Oct ) to agree with the age of 75

Jeff

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #152 on: December 02, 2019, 09:58:52 PM »
Thank you all for trying
 No Hugo if he had of lived in Hartlepool I would have met him.
 Cheers

Helig

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #153 on: December 03, 2019, 12:08:57 PM »
I think your best option is to make contact with the people who have their trees on Ancestry.

It looks to me as though something happened as there is no exact match for him I can find in the 1939 register. There is no obvious marriage, or death, to be found for him either. It could be he died pre 1939, or went overseas.

There are some possible entries which could be pursued but you would have to obtain certificates only to find they aren't the right ones for him. This could prove expensive. I note a death registered in Conwy in 1930 for a Robert W Roberts age 41 but it is difficult to determine if it is the right person unless you obtain the certificate.

Helig.

Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #154 on: December 03, 2019, 01:25:47 PM »
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There are some possible entries which could be pursued but you would have to obtain certificates only to find they aren't the right ones for him. This could prove expensive. I note a death registered in Conwy in 1930 for a Robert W Roberts age 41 but it is difficult to determine if it is the right person unless you obtain the certificate.

Helig.

Helig R W R we know was born on the 26th Oct 1892 so by 1930 he would only have been about 38 so I don't think that he is the one we are looking for

Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #155 on: December 03, 2019, 03:52:12 PM »
I've just checked Robert William Roberts who died in Hartlepool in 1968 and there is a record of his birth in the Dec Q of 1893 at Hartlepool so this confirms that he is not Jeff's relative

Meleri

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #156 on: December 03, 2019, 05:27:46 PM »
I have just looked on the 1939 Register & the only Robert Roberts showing up as born 26th October 1892 is a Farm Carter & Bayliff living at Pantcaerhun, Bangor. Other people at the same address Annie Roberts born 23/5/1889, Cledwyn R Roberts born 27/12/1927 & Catherine Roberts born 1/1/1863. I'm really not sure as to whether this is the one you are looking for but it may be worth looking into.



Jeff

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #157 on: December 03, 2019, 10:02:08 PM »
Yes Meleri I have just joined the Forces War Record site just to find out what you wrote is the same there . So if any one what's to look up some body on that site just send my a message.

Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #158 on: December 04, 2019, 02:28:23 PM »
I went to the Library again today and had a search on Find My Past for Robert William Roberts and this is what I found in my search.

There was no entry for a Robert William Roberts or Robert W Roberts in the 1939 Register with a birth date of 26th October 1892

I checked out the Robert Roberts from Pantcaerhun  Bangor and his birthday was on the 26th but in November 1892 so this person is not Jeff's relative.
In fact this Robert Roberts and Jeff's Robert William Roberts births were registered in the quarter ended December 1892 at the Bangor and Conway Registration Districts respectively

So if we cannot prove that R W R was in the 1939 do we presume that he had died before then?     

One thing of interest is that some time ago Jeff came up with a possibility of a Robert William Roberts who lived in Ty Newydd Barrog
The only thing was that Jeff found out that this R W R was born on the 25th October 1892 and that is the nearest match so far.
It's only a thought because the original records are copied by someone, could they have mistaken the 26th for the 25th?
I assume that Jeff has a copy of the birth certificate for R W R and it clearly shows the 26th  but does anyone know where the original 1939 records are kept and are they able to be viewed online?


Helig

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #159 on: December 05, 2019, 09:53:12 AM »
I don't know for certain where the original 1939 register records are held but would presume they would be in The National Archives at Kew.

I saw that entry for Robert Roberts born 25 October 1892 living at Ty Newydd. The household appears to have Richard Roberts, b14/08/1879, Tenant Farmer, as the head. Then there is Robert Roberts, Carter on farm. The last entry for Ty Newydd is for Elizabeth Roberts, born 21/03/1888.  It is possible that Elizabeth is the wife of Robert but we cannot say for sure.

I don't think it is possible to make a decision on whether this is Jeff's relative on the basis of this information. The Electoral Roll might give some clues such as his middle name (if any) but even then it wouldn't be in existence for the war years.

Helig.

Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #160 on: December 05, 2019, 11:34:50 AM »
Helig,  I think that we need more than a stroke of luck to find the correct Robert William Roberts

I'm assuming that Jeff has a copy of the original birth certificate that shows the DOB  as 26th Oct 1892 and if so perhaps Jeff can confirm the date
I've a vague memory that when I looked at Robert's school records there may have been a different date or age on them and I'll have the notes somewhere in one of my note books

The last thing we have on him is the 1911 Census when he was living and working in Colwyn Bay but since then nothing at all

I've double checked the 1939 Register and if the DOB is 26th Oct 1892 then Robert is not on it.    I've checked death records from 1911 to 1992 and cannot find a positive match there either
The only two possible matches are :-
Robert W Roberts  d 1933 Sept Q  Corwen  aged 41           Vol 11b    pg 350
    ditto                 d 1943 Sept Q  Hiraethog  aged 51        Vol 11b    pg 306




Jeff

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #161 on: December 05, 2019, 11:19:00 PM »
Yes Hugo can confirm 26 Oct 1892 and Reg; 15 Nov; 1892
With the 1911 census we or I have not fix him down to one person----On one he is living with Wm Roberts at 14 Victoria St Civil Parish of Llanbeblig he is down as Wm Roberts nephew.( what is a nephew because I have not found a Wm Roberts yet). The other with a Evan H Evans Farmer living at Talyeafni I think he is down as farm labour
The next information may have nothing to do with Robert W, but on the Forces War Records looking at South Wales Borderers there is Sargent R W Roberts from Birkenhead Service number 21341
then there is Robert William Roberts from Monmouthshire private service number 227179. As mentioned before non of the records have birth dates or next of kin, so they may have nothing to do with what we are looking for

Helig

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #162 on: December 06, 2019, 10:11:04 AM »
The other possibility is that he went overseas prior to 1939. There are many people by the name of Robert Roberts, or Robert W Roberts, b 1892, shown on the UK outward passenger lists prior to 1939. There is one for Robert W Roberts, b 1892, who sailed from Liverpool to Halifax, Nova Scotia in 1919. A Robert W Roberts, b1892,  is shown on a US List of Alien arrivals at Canadian Atlantic and Pacific seaports in 1919.

He could have moved to another area in the UK which would make it difficult to trace him as well. Had this been the case, he should be traced on the 1939 register but people do get missed off at times.

It would be a help if Jeff could contact the person/people who have him in their Family Tree on Ancestry. I am on Genes Reunited and have searched that site but no one has Robert, or Ethel, in their trees.

The dates of birth in the school registers seem to be incorrrect very often from what I have seen of them.

Helig

Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #163 on: December 06, 2019, 10:56:32 AM »
I've looked at the sailings from Liverpool too as it's a possibility that he did emigrate but it would be extremely difficult to find the correct one

Jeff has done a lot of searching but has been unable to find his ancestor and it is time consuming and costly too for him.     If I was Jeff then I'd have a DNA test done either by My Heritage ( the one I've had done ) or by Ancestry.    It's surprising what turns up and you find that you have relatives all over the world.

Helig's advise on contacting the people who have him in their family tree is sound and could save Jeff a lot of time in the future and that would be the first thing to do prior to any DNA test


Jeff

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #164 on: December 06, 2019, 11:53:35 AM »
I've have found the same as you---on the familysearch site LDS you can look at the census for the USA and there are  4-5 Robert W Roberts all  born around 1893 in Wales, but no exact birth dates.
 As Helig advise I will go back on to Ancestry and see what happens---Thank's again all