Author Topic: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno  (Read 5779 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Jeff

  • Member
Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #105 on: August 10, 2018, 12:55:51 AM »
 There is no probate on him
Robert William Roberts
Birth   
02/10/1889
Death   
12/1974 Carnarvon Caernarvonshire Wales

Jeff

  • Member
Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #106 on: August 10, 2018, 07:34:16 AM »
 So more important information ---what is your golf handicap

Hugo

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #107 on: August 10, 2018, 07:39:21 AM »
Thanks Jeff, so you've established that that Robert William is not your relative, so at the moment I've run out of ideas but if I can think of anything then I'll post it on here.


PS   My golfing handicap is just my clubs      ;D

A friend wanted to play golf so I brought my 40 year old clubs out of retirement and started playing weekly but it's just a bit of fun, nothing serious

Hugo

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #108 on: August 21, 2018, 06:36:19 PM »
Hi Jeff,   I've tried some options but because of the common name have got nowhere.

I've gone back to your original posting and you mention that Ethel Katie Roberts and Robert were both shown in the 1901 Census as being at Oakamore Boy's Home in Colwyn Bay

I've had a look again at the link supplied by Rhuddlan and read it again and it said that the home could accommodate up to 20 boys.   Now Ethel Katie Roberts,  you would think would not be living in a home for boys.   Rhuddlan's  link does show a family photo and mentions a Kate but that Kate is a woman and not a child
You said that you were not certain that the Robert Roberts was the one you are researching but is Ethel Katie there on the 1901 Census and is it possible for you to post the actual 1901 Census on here for me to look at?

The link does imply that the records for the home are not available so I can't follow that up at the Archives

Jeff

  • Member
Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #109 on: August 22, 2018, 01:52:00 AM »
Hi Hugo Posted the 1901 census for Ethel and Robert . You will see that they are both inn the home,only reason that I could give would be Robert was so young and older an sister may help him. Looking at it again Ethel may be down as a domestic . The census doe's not give either child's middle names

Jeff

  • Member
Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #110 on: August 22, 2018, 06:40:47 AM »
I believe this is Robert William Roberts  1911 I think it says nephew but have yet to work that out

Hugo

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #111 on: August 22, 2018, 05:40:22 PM »
Thanks very much for posting that Jeff.        I've spent a couple of hours at the Archives today looking unsuccessfully for an address for my ancestors in the 1841 Census as I was hoping to visit the village this year.
It's so frustrating and I had no luck in the 1841 and 1851 Census records but in 1861 they were living in Llandudno but I already knew that.    You've got my sympathy because I can see how much effort that you have put into tracing Robert.

While I was there I did find something and it fits in with your posting on 14th June 2018 but may raise more questions than answers.
What I found was that William Robert Roberts was admitted to the National School on the 24th June 1901.  His date of birth was given as 14th October 1892.    His guardian was Mary Jones and she lived at 17 Council Street Llandudno.    His last school was named as Conway N School
William Robert left the National School on the 26th July 1901 and the reason given was because he had left town

By the way I have copied the name down as it was recorded and double checked on the date of birth but neither match what you have found already but the address of 17 Council Street certainly does



Hugo

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #112 on: August 22, 2018, 06:04:10 PM »
With regard to the 1901 Census, it may well be your ancestors on the record, but Census records are not always correct and should be taken as a guide only.
For instance as the Census was taken early in 1901  Ethel would have been 9 and not 11 as stated in the Census, Robert would have been 8 and not 9 as stated in the Census.
Also Roberts' place of birth was given as Conway whereas we know that he was born in Llandudno.
Just minor differences but you have to bear that in mind

Hugo

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #113 on: August 22, 2018, 11:21:13 PM »
Hi Jeff,  I've just looked at the 1911 Census and had difficulty reading the handwriting but I'll translate it for you;-
Robert Roberts    Gwas   ( lad or servant)    Porth Gwartheg  (Cattle helper) 
So by that I presume that Robert was not related in any way to that Evans family and he would have been 18 at the date of the Census

Jeff

  • Member
Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #114 on: August 23, 2018, 04:08:46 AM »
The address of 17 Council Street Llandudno was Kate's parents in 1901 and she did have a sister Mary Elizabeth Jones 5 years older and married George Fox around 1895 .  It is strange why the change in the first two names he was definitely born as Robert William. I am not on one of the payed sites at the moment, with the Mary the guardian would she still go by her maiden name because by 1895 she would be Fox

Hugo

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #115 on: August 23, 2018, 11:12:11 AM »
It is a mystery and one I can't explain.     I think that I found that link on Find My Past and it's free to use in the Archives.   Because of the address, I thought that it's worth mentioning but can't explain why the name would be Mary Jones and not Mary Fox.
There are so many possibilities that it makes it difficult to understand.
Robert appears on the 1911 Census as living at Oakamore  Colwyn Bay
He must have left the home a couple of months after the Census date  and was living in 17 Council Street but left the town about a month later
The Guardian was named as Mary Jones but was Mary Jones or Mary Fox the real guardian or was that in name only and he lived with William and Elizabeth Jones?
You mention that William Jones died and was buried in Bangor in 1905 or 1906 so did Robert go to live with his Grandparents or did he live with Mary Fox.     It's a puzzle Jeff but it seems more than a coincidence so we'll have to see if this leads anywhere

Jeff

  • Member
Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #116 on: August 23, 2018, 01:25:16 PM »
 You believe this is our Robert----(-Robert appears on the 1911 Census as living at Oakamore  Colwyn Bay) I have the 1911 census for Mary Fox only husband and children living there . As I only have 1901 census for Robert's grandparents as the 4 off them died before next census .On the 1901 both sets of grandparents only live two doors apart and no Robert there.

Hugo

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #117 on: August 23, 2018, 02:05:00 PM »
Thanks Jeff for that info.     I didn't expect Robert to be on the Census for 1901 at Council Street as he had already been accounted for in the Colwyn Bay home.
It's very strange that he was brought back to Llandudno, enrolled in a new school and then presumably placed back in the Oakamore Home in Colwyn Bay.
It must have been very upsetting for him with everything that was going on around the time.    That link that Rhuddlan supplied shows about 15 boys from the school and it was taken in 1901 and Robert could be in the photo but we'll never know which one is Robert

PS    I've just gone back to the link and towards the end it stated that due to financial reasons the Oakamore finally closed in 1906 so if that was the case there should not be a Census record for 1911.   Would you mind posting the Census record you have for 1911 on here and Robert would have been 18 by that time and in those days you would expect that he was working and living elsewhere


Jeff

  • Member
Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #118 on: August 24, 2018, 07:17:08 AM »
Hi Hugo   I have tried all afternoon to find Robert W Roberts on Find my Past with out any luck so have posted the one of Ancestry.I found Mary Fox nee Jones on the 1901 census living in Stafford shire married with children, but 1900 they had a a child in Llandudno Dorothy that only lived for two years and died in Conway, went back for the 1901 census and came back 1902  to have another child Enda. Found the two entries for Ethel and Robert date of her birth is out by about a month. Robert's address Wyddfyd is his birth address, Ethel has Robert Roberts down on her entry that would be her grandfather  but has down an address of   ---Penyfrdd ?
 Got a head ache need a cup coffee
 All the best
       Jeff

Hugo

  • Ad Free Member
  • *
Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #119 on: August 24, 2018, 10:41:43 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You believe this is our Robert----(-Robert appears on the 1911 Census as living at Oakamore  Colwyn Bay) I have the 1911 census for Mary Fox only husband and children living there . As I only have 1901 census for Robert's grandparents as the 4 off them died before next census .On the 1901 both sets of grandparents only live two doors apart and no Robert there.


I don't quite understand your comment regarding -"Robert appears on the 1911 Census as living at Oakamore  Colwyn Bay"     as Rhuddlan's link to the home said that due to financial reasons the home closed in 1906 so there should be no Census for 1911 at Oakamoor Home Colwyn Bay.
If you have a copy of that 1911 Census would you please post it on here so I can see it.   
If the Colwyn Bay home was closed in 1906 there is a possibility that Ethel and Robert were moved to another home and possibly in England but I'm only guessing until I see the Census record that I've highlighted above

It will be a week or more before I can get back to the Archives to have a look for anything

That address Penyfrdd is probably  Penyffridd and there is a terrace of houses on the Great Orme Llandudno bearing that name, in fact I posted a photo of both Penyffridd and Wyddfyd Terrace on here recently.     The information came off the school records and Ethel was at Penyffridd and  Robert at Wyddfyd