Author Topic: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno  (Read 39053 times)

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Offline Jeff

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #75 on: July 17, 2018, 10:01:22 am »
They had moved to Wyddfyd Terrace that was the place where his parents had been living at there deaths. I never considered him having a middle name most have been name after his mother's father William Jones

Offline Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #76 on: July 17, 2018, 04:31:33 pm »
Thanks Jeff,  so this confirms the grave I found for Hugh and Catherine at St Tudno's Church on the Great Orme Llandudno.
What we now know for certain is Robert's full name, his date of birth and place of birth.   He was born in Llandudno and within the Parish of Llandudno which was in the county of Caernarfonshire so it gives a good start in the search for him in later years.
Death records after I think 1969 also show the date of birth but I haven't been able to find a record for him after 1969 but will look again in the Archives whenever I next go there.


Offline Jeff

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #77 on: July 17, 2018, 11:47:48 pm »
Hugo ---At this moment I am going with the 1911 census that has Robert is working on a farm in
 County/Island:   Denbighshire
Country:   Wales
Street address:   Caeforys Eglwysbach Talycafn
Marital Status:   Sengl (Single)
Occupation:   Porthwr Gwartheg
Registration district:   Llanrwst
 but like you I am having no luck with the 1939 register. If you are not black out of the reg;  it will show your date of birth but nothing. I thought Robert Roberts was common name but Robert William is just as bad. It is remarkable how many Robert's or Robert William's where born around that time
With the grave of Hugh and Kate I was sent what is written on the grave stone will have to go and look for it

Offline Jeff

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #78 on: July 18, 2018, 12:49:13 am »
Hugo
 
IThe only likely memorial inscription in the list I have is the following:
G174.
Er cof am Hugh Roberts, Wyddfyd Terrace, Llandudno yr hwn a fu farw Ionawr 14 1896 yn 28 mylwydd oed.  Hefyd ei briod Catherine Roberts yr hwn a fu farw Ebrill 1896 yn 28 mylwydd oed.
 
Translation:  In memory of Hugh Roberts, Wyddfyd Terrace, Llandudno who died January 14 1896 aged 28.  Also his wife Catherine Roberts who died Aprill 1896 aged 28

What is interesting is that Kate Roberts was buried as Catherine, her birth and death cert, give her her as Kate makes you think no one from the family had any in put to the inscription

Offline Jeff

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #79 on: July 18, 2018, 02:04:57 am »

Add Alternative Information
Report issue
Name:   Robert Roberts
Gender:   Male
Marital Status:   Single
Birth Date:   25 Oct 1892
Residence Year:   1939
Address:   Ty Newydd Barrog
Residence Place:   Aled, Denbighshire, Wales
Occupation:   Carter on Farm
Schedule Number:   5
Sub Schedule Number:   2
Enumeration District:   ZKAL
Registration district:   623/1
Household Members:                   This would seem to be correct it is only out by one day, what do you think?
Name
Richard Roberts
Robert Roberts
Elizabeth Roberts

Offline Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #80 on: July 18, 2018, 06:16:56 pm »
Jeff, a lot of records are not always factually correct as the spelling on the original forms may have been read incorrectly due to bad handwriting.
Take for example Barrog and although I am from North Wales I have never heard this name.   I have however heard of Carrog which is in that locality but perhaps some other forum members may have heard of Barrog.
Likewise with the figures 25 and 26 bad handwriting may account for the date but without doing some searches myself at the Archives then I can't make an educated guess as to whether this is your Robert or not

Offline Cambrian

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #81 on: July 18, 2018, 09:23:33 pm »
Yes.  Its a name used in the Llansannan and Llanfair TH area.  Relates to the Afon Barrog and a common of the same name.
Ty Newydd Barrog was in Llanfair TH.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #82 on: July 18, 2018, 11:02:15 pm »
Thanks for putting that right Cambrian, I've learned something new there     

Offline Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #83 on: July 19, 2018, 09:44:59 am »
Just an add on to my last posting, because Ty Newydd Barrog wasn't an all Welsh name I read it as
Ty Newydd
Barrog
but I had Googled Barrog first and discovered that it was Irish Gaelic.      I can now see that it's in a remote place in the hills above Llanfair TH but I wonder if the original occupiers of the property were Welsh with some Irish influence?


Offline Jeff

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #84 on: July 19, 2018, 12:00:22 pm »
 I do not think I have the correct Robert on the 1939 register has Robert Roberts living at Ty Newydd Barrog with a Richard Roberts, on the 1911 census living at Ty Newydr Llanfair Talhaiarn Robert and Richard Roberts
 1911 census Robert w Roberts is living at Caeforys Eglwysbach Talycafn

Offline Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #85 on: July 19, 2018, 07:51:04 pm »
Jeff, I had a look on Find my past for the 1911 Census and there were only 20 Robert Roberts recorded as being born in 1892. 
Of these only two were Robert William and the most probable one was in Capel Garmon  which was in Denbighshire and the Registration District was Llanrwst Rural
Now you say that you have found a Robert W living in Eglwysbach does the Census records show where that Robert W was born?
I can't view the actual Census records until I go to the Archives so I can't comment until I've seen the records in full

Offline Jeff

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #86 on: July 19, 2018, 11:25:30 pm »

View Record   Name   Parent or spouse names   Birth Year   Birth Place   Relation   Residence   View Image
View Record
Robert W Roberts
abt 1892   Llandudno, Caernarvonshire, Wales   Gwas (Servant)   Eglwys Fach, Denbighshire   

Offline Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #87 on: July 26, 2018, 06:11:43 pm »
Hi Jeff,  I went to the Archives today and had a look at the following:-
 
The location of the grave of Hugh and Catherine at plot G 174 in St Tudno’s Church on the Great Orme
 
The Burial Indexes for Llandudno & district and Eglwysbach but couldn’t find a grave for  a Robert William Roberts.   These indexes only cover graves with headstones in the Church’s cemetery
 
I had free access to the 1911 Census records but couldn’t locate your Robert William Roberts.   He must be on the Census but perhaps under the name Robert Roberts which will make it harder to find unless you already have him as the one in Eglwysbach.
 
One thing I did find was the school register for Robert William Roberts and he went to the National School of St George for infants.   It is located in Church Walks and that is the school that Ethel would have gone to.  I looked at the Register and this is the info on it:-
No 633 Roberts Robert William  admission to school 8/5/96 born 26/10/96  no name was entered for parent or guardian address was Wyddfyd   and no date was recorded for withdrawal from school
 
No 622  Roberts Ethel  date of admission 13/4/96   born 20/7/91  no name for parent or guardian address was Penyffridd   date of withdrawal from school 9/10/96
 
Although Ethel Roberts’ date of birth disagrees with the date you posted on the forum I can only assume that she is your Grandmother.   Now this is strange because their parents were both dead by April 1896 and from the information I have gathered I’m assuming that the children were split up with Robert living in Wyddfyd and Ether living in Penyffridd which is higher up the Great Orme.  Ethel left school but no explanation was given for it but Robert was still in school then, so another mystery there.
 
I then went up the Great Orme to St Tudno’s Church and located Hugh and Catherines grave.    The headstone in fact is a flat piece of slate only about a foot square and was upright on the grave, to give you a sense of proportion I have posted a photo of the next grave to it.
Just so you have a bit more for your records I have posted photos of St Tudno’s  Church,  Penyffridd where Ethel was and Wyddfyd Terrace where Hugh and Catherine and the family lived and the National school that Robert and Ethel went to.    I’ve included a photo of the tram that goes to the top of the Great Orme and I took it from very near Wyddfyd Terrace so you can see the lovely views that the family would once have enjoyed

Offline Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #88 on: July 26, 2018, 06:17:59 pm »
National School of St George

Offline Jeff

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #89 on: July 26, 2018, 11:56:42 pm »
Thank you Hugo that is brillant will have to sit down and take that all in, still waiting for the birth cert; of Robert
 Have try to sent you the 1911 census but will not load it---how do I go about doing that?