Author Topic: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno  (Read 39079 times)

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Offline Jeff

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #90 on: July 27, 2018, 05:46:06 am »
I went back and had a look Hugh and Kate's brothers and sisters to see where they lived it may of help, there is a couple I can not find at all. The only one that comes close is Elizabeth Ellen Hedley nee Roberts would have been Hugh sister . In 1911 census Kate was living in Openshaw Lancashire and Elizabeth was living in Salforth 40 mins up the road.
 Looking at the dates you sent Ethel went into the home 13/4/96 16 days after her mother died and Robert 1 month later. With Robert's address both his grandparent where living in Wyddfyd Terace around that time. His grandparents on the Roberts side Robert Roberts I was told died of drink 1889 ,  Ann Roberts nee Jones  died 1897, grandparents on the Jones side William and Elizabeth Jones where living in Eglwys Rhos Llandudno, but for the 1901 census see Robert joining Ethel in the home.
  Going to try and get in contact with the lady that told me about Robert drinking

Offline Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #91 on: July 27, 2018, 08:03:12 am »
Jeff, you're asking the wrong person for IT help to put something on here but there are loads of others who may be able to help you.
The records I was looking up were the National School of St George attendance Register.   It seems that Ethel and Robert did not go to school before their parents died but after the parents died the people looking after them put them in school.
It seems that Ethel was only in that school for about 6 months before she was taken out of it but no explanation was given for that.
After suffering the loss of both parents in 1896 it's a shame that they had to be parted from each other when they were so young


Offline Jeff

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #92 on: July 30, 2018, 03:47:38 am »
Received the birth cert; Robert William Robert every thing as I hoped ,birth 26 Oct and reg; on the 15 Nov; 1892 living at Wyddfyd Terrance  Llandudno  , Kate Roberts formerly Jones and Hugh was a attendant at a Pavillion

 

Offline Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #93 on: July 30, 2018, 03:30:31 pm »
Thanks for posting the details on here Jeff.      It's not going to be easy to trace what has happened to Robert as there is so little information known about him but you might have some luck on your search.
Some websites have different information to others and in any case it depends on what the operator has put into the system.
Take for instance Roots UK, I have looked for the death of a Robert William born 1892 and covered the years from 1910 to 2000 and their records only record the death of one person who matches those exact details and that Robert William Roberts death was registered in the quarter ended September 1974

However because I don't subscribe to Roots UK  that is as far as I was able to see but I'm not suggesting that this is your relative because other sites such as Ancestry may differ.
Robert may have served in the forces in World War 1 but I could not trace a death for him in either World Wars so there must be records of him out there that can give you the info, fingers crossed.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #94 on: August 02, 2018, 04:25:29 pm »
Hi Jeff,   I was at the Archives again and had a look through their records but unfortunately turned up nothing for Robert Roberts.
I looked at the 1896 copy of the local paper the Llandudno Advertiser but could see no obituary notice or anything about the family tragedy
I then looked at the 1939 register for England and Wales and could see no person with the matching date of birth of Robert, the nearest match was the one that you had already found at Ty Newydd Barrog.
I rechecked the burial records for St Tudno's Church but there was no record for Robert there.   Those records are for the Church Cemetery only though.    There is a much larger cemetery there but it is Council owned and those records are I believe held at the Crematorium in Mochdre
I know for a fact from Billion dollar graves that there are a number of Robert Roberts buried there in the new Cemetery at St Tudno's but don't know if the details match your Robert.
One I was looking at on Billion Dollar graves was a Robert William Roberts who died in 1975 but his wife Winifred Catherine died much earlier in 1932. Unfortunately his age was not put on the headstone so I don't know any more details other than that.
When I looked at records from Find My Past there was a Robert Roberts born 1892 who died in 1961 and the death was registered in the Conwy District at  vol 8a  pg 167 death quarter 1
The records also showed marriages of a Robert W Roberts in the Conwy District in 1915,1917, 1922, 1923 and 1924 but again there is no evidence to say that anyone of them was your relative.
However local papers like the Llandudno Advertiser and North Wales Weekly News reort marriages and obituaries and may be able to confirm things one way or another

Before I start to look in the papers I would appreciate it if you could tell me what you know for certain about Robert, wife children etc just so that I have something positive to work with

Offline Jeff

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #95 on: August 03, 2018, 06:04:19 am »
Hi Hugh I look at Billion Dollar graves and like you found Robert William Roberts died 1975 with wife Winfred Catherine died 1932 on the report it had 8 Clonmei Street and a Dilys Mary Roberts died 18 nov 1977 ( may be child or may be new wife). With Robert W Roberts  born 26 Oct 1892 to Hugh Roberts and Kate Jones all living at Wyddfyd Terrace Llandudno 1901 census in a Boys Home 1911 census what I believe to be him at Street address:   Caeforys Eglwysbach Talycafn, Martial Status single Occ; Porthwr Gwartheg (I have tried a couple of times to send you the 1911 census but will not go through)

I was thinking about the whole family of Hugh and Kate they are both from big families so what if there was one more child. Robert W born oct 1892 and Kate died April 1896 so about three years in between ,I  looked on the FreeBDM site and there is Catherine Roberts born June quarter 1895 Conway 11b 497. On the 1901 census she is in the Conway Union Workhouse as a pauper.
 May be just looking for some one to fit but first name Catherine was given to Kate and in 1901 being a pauper.
 Do you think it would be cheeky of me to send an email to Rhian and ask if she would have a look to see if it matches
 Will wait for a reply from you before I go a head
.

Offline Jeff

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #96 on: August 03, 2018, 07:05:00 am »
There was a Dilys Mary Jones married a Robert W Roberts dec 1947 in Pwllheli-- I had a look for a birth of Dilys M Jones, you would not believe how many there is.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #97 on: August 03, 2018, 10:09:42 am »
Jeff, first of all I wouldn't trouble Rhian about something that you have no evidence about.    Rhian and Glenys are both extremely helpful and you may need their assistance in the future once you have something positive to give them.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Robert William Roberts from 8 Clonmel St is your relative, the coincidence is just in his name. Catherine listed on the headstone is his daughter.

I was hoping that the local papers of the time may throw up something that could link up to your relative but it may take time to search the papers and I don't think that they are online so it means a trip to the Archives when I can

 

Offline Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #98 on: August 08, 2018, 07:14:54 pm »
I have been checking the BMD records for Robert William Roberts and in particular the one who lived at 8 Clonmel Street Llandudno and who died on 2nd September 1975.
The Death records after 1969 show the date of birth of the deceased and that Robert's records in the September quarter of the Aberconwy District show that Robert was born on 20th July 1885 so you can rule him out of your research.

Offline Jeff

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #99 on: August 08, 2018, 11:25:48 pm »
 Yes I agree about that Robert I found a probate notice on the death of his wife and it gives his occ; as joiner and there is Robert William Roberts joiner on the 1939 register born 1885. My problem is there seems to be nothing that  I can do this end have check most of the paying site with possibility but nothing concrete.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #100 on: August 09, 2018, 07:52:45 am »
Jeff, it does seem that your search has hit an impasse because of the circumstances and also the popular name.
There is one Robert Roberts I want to eliminate but I need to go to the Archives and hope that there is an obituary notice in the local paper for him.   That Robert Roberts was born 1892 and died in the 1st quarter of 1961 in the Conwy Valley District.
I'll post anything I find on here next week.

Offline Jeff

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #101 on: August 09, 2018, 08:33:28 am »
Is this the Robert Roberts of 7 Jubilee Street Llandudno died 3 Feb; 1961 Probate Bangor 18 May 1961 to Charles Thomas Davis Neal local government official

Offline Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #102 on: August 09, 2018, 09:50:47 am »
If it is Jeff then it's not your Robert as we have done research on the forum for that Roberts family.
I'm dashing off for a game of golf so I'll check later, but thanks for that info

Offline Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #103 on: August 09, 2018, 06:53:26 pm »
Jeff,   I've had a look at my notes and rechecked the BMD for all Robert Roberts whose death was registered in the Conwy District and cannot find one that fits your relative.
The Roberts at 7 Jubilee Street is from a different family so I don't need to go to the Archives now as I know that he's not your relative

The nearest one in your search seems to be the one from Ty Newydd Barrog in the 1939 Register but I've checked the original record and the date of 25th October 1892 is quite clear.
However that record has been copied from another original record and if the handwriting is bad then the 26th may easily have been taken for the 25th but that is pure speculation on my part and the truth may never be known.   I've no idea either if or where those original records completed by each household are.

Offline Hugo

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Re: Robert Roberts born 1893 Llandudno
« Reply #104 on: August 09, 2018, 07:11:37 pm »
I've just gone through the Death records of Roots UK for all the Robert William Roberts who have died in the last century and there is only one match for a Robert William Roberts born in 1892
That Robert William Roberts died in the September quarter of 1974.
I have no other details as I don't subscribe to it and I'm not 100 per cent convinced of the accuracy of those records so I will go to the Archives again to look at that one death