Author Topic: John Roberts, Conwy.  (Read 1629 times)

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Meleri

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Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2018, 04:00:12 PM »
What a tangled web we weave.

Here is my shot at it and a recap of what you have found ;)

On the 1861 Census John Roberts born 1826 is a Widow living at the North Side of High Street Conwy with:-

Trevor Roberts born 1849 Son
Mary       "        "    1852 Daughter
Alfred      "        "    1854 Son
Eleanor Owen    "    1832 servant ( I think she could be a relative of his dead wife, possibly her sister). There are also Sarah, Thomas And John Owen who I think are Eleanor's children as her daughter Sarah and John's Daughter are both age 9.

When I looked for a Baptism for Trevor Roberts I found one in Conwy 14/4/1850, father John Roberts, Mother Anne, address Mount Pleasant, Conway. Also on the GRO it states his Mother's maiden name is Owens
Baptism for Alfred Roberts 16/4/1854 Conway same parents and address. GRO birth  Mother Owens

Marriage for John Roberts & Anne Evans (she was a widow) 14/12/1847 at the Parish Church Conwy. His father was John Roberts, Occupation Mason and her father John Owens, Occupation Mariner. The witnesses were David Roberts & Elin Owens.

1851 Census Mount Pleasant Conwy.

John Roberts born Conway 1825
Anne Roberts    "     "         1822 Wife
John Evans        "     "        1841 Stepson
Evan Ellis Evans "     "        1844   "
Trefor Roberts   "     "         1851 Son age 11 months (so he was born 1850)
Owen Owens      "     "        1822 Lodger ( possibly Anne's Brother)
Eleanor Owens    "     "       1828 Servant ( possibly Ann's Sister)

Anne must have died sometime between 1851 & 1861 as John is a widower on the 1861 Census

There are Monumental Inscription booklets in Conwy Library both for St Mary's graveyard and St Agnes Cemetery with quite a lot of information. I will carry on looking to see what I can find.

emma silk

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Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2018, 10:45:28 PM »
Thank you. I never had any reason to think John wasn't a Roberts until I started to do my family tree. Yes the 1861 census is the one I think is correct as Alfred and Evan are together in later ones which does mean that John was Owen. Later it became Roberts. I am trying to find out who his father really was as we thought it was John Roberts who is on his marriage certificate but we don't know if that was because he lived with him. I found the baptisms for Sarah which was the 14th December 1851 and Thomas Owen 28th December, 1857 address Mount Pleasant, Conwy with no father. John and his first wife I think were living in Mount Pleasant in 1851 and Eleanor Owen was living with them and their family as a servant. I did think Anne and Eleanor could be related but never found a link. What I couldn't understand is if Eleanor had the two children baptised without their father why would she not baptise John, Evan and Ann whether John Roberts is their father or not. This is why I keep leaving and coming back to it. I never could find a marriage between John and Eleanor. Thank you for the offer of going to the archives. I do have a record of graves somewhere but until I can establish who his father is I don't know who to look for.

Paulakelsall

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Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2018, 01:02:53 PM »
Hi Emma - some of the people you mention are part of my family tree. Hope this might explain some of the confusion!

Owen Owen (1817-1899), Ann Owen (1819-1855c) & Elinor Owen (1827-?). All born in Conway to parents John Owen (1788c-1841) and Mary Parry (1795c-?). Note the surname is sometimes changed to Owens in records, Ann's name is sometimes Anne and Elinor's name crops up as Elin/Ellin/Eleanor.

Ann Owen married John Evans (1814-1842) at St Mary's Church, Conway in 1840. They had two children John Evans (b1841-?) and Evan Evans (b1843-1903). Sadly Ann's husband John died in an accident in 1842 leaving Ann with the two small boys.

The widowed Ann marries John Roberts (b1825-?) in Conway in 1847. They have three children Trevor Roberts (1850-?), Mary Roberts (1851-?) and Alfred Roberts (b1854-?). Ann died c1855 in Conway and is buried in St Mary's Churchyard, Conway with her first husband John Evans - see photo. Therefore, I am sorry to say she cannot be your great grandfather John Roberts' (b1860) mother.

On first glance of the 1851 & 1861 Censuses the information can be confusing but....
1851 - Mount Pleasant, Conway
John Roberts born Conway Aged 26. Head. Married. Stone Mason
Anne Roberts    "     "         Aged 29. Married. Wife of John Roberts
John Evans        "     "        Aged 10. Stepson of John Roberts (son from Anne's first marriage)
Evan Ellis Evans "     "        Aged 7. Stepson of John Roberts (son from Anne's first marriage. nb Ellis is a family surname from previous generations)
Trefor Roberts   "     "        Aged 11 months. Son of John & Anne Roberts
Owen Owens      "     "       Aged.31.Unmarried. Lodger (Anne's Brother/John Roberts' brother-in-Law). Mariner.
Eleanor Owen    "     "        Aged 23. Unmarried. Servant (Anne's Sister/John Roberts' sister-in-law). House Servant.

1861 Census - High Street (North Side) Conway
John Roberts born Conway Aged 35. Head. Widowed. Sawyer.
Trevor Roberts "        "       Aged 12. Son of John Roberts & Ann Roberts deceased.
Mary Roberts    "        "      Aged 9. Daughter of John Roberts & Ann Roberts deceased.
Alfred Roberts   "        "     Aged 7. Son  of John Roberts & Ann Roberts deceased.
Eleanor Owen    "        "     Aged 29. Servant. Unmarried. (Sister-in-law of John Roberts/Sister of Ann Roberts' deceased)
Sarah Owen      "        "     Aged 9. Daughter of Eleanor Owen/Father unknown.
Thomas Owen   "        "     Aged 3. Son of Eleaner Owen/Father unknown.
John Owen        "        "     Aged 7 months. Son of Eleanor Owen/Father unknown. (Who you believe is your great grandfather)
Evan Evans       "        "     Aged 16. Lodger. Unmarried. Mariner. (Stepson of John Roberts/son of Ann Roberts' deceased).

I did find an Eleanor Owens marrying a Thomas Roberts in Conway in 1857 but this does not account for why Eleanor is listed on the 1861 Census as Owen and unmarried. As Eleanor is not in my direct line of ancestors I am afraid I have not researched this further. It might be worth looking for Eleanor (and/or John Owen/Roberts) in subsequent Censuses. I did find another marriage for Elinor Owens in 1867 to an Owen Jones in Conway. Again I have not looked into this.

On a side note, which might be of interest to your mother, Owen Owen b1817 married and had a fairly large family. I am in contact with his descendants who are still local to the area. Ann Owen b1819 sons John Evans b1841 & Evans Evans b1843 did not change their names to Roberts. John Evans married had a large family and I have been in contact with his descendants. Evan Evans is my great great grandfather and again had a large family in Conway. He became the Harbour Master in Conway an is buried in St Agnes Road Cemetery.

Hope this is of some use!



Meleri

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Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2018, 03:53:15 PM »
On the 1861 Census John Owen's age is seven & a half months and the Census was taken Sunday 7th April, if my maths are right then he was born the last week in August 1860. There are two births Registered at Conway near to that time, John Owen registered 1860 3 Quarter July-August-September, but that one states Mother's maiden name Jones. The second one is John Owens registered 1860 4Q October-November-December but no Mother's name, that one could be the one you are looking for it's Volume 11b Page 473. I have bought quite a few Certificated from The Register Office in Llandudno and they are very good for checking to see if it's the right one first if you go there in person. It's doubtful if there is going to be a father's name though, so you could ask them to have a look if it states Mother Ellen Owen, as on the Baptisms for Sarah & Thomas they were stated as illegitimate and Ellen a single woman. At least you now now who Ellen's parents are. I have had a look for John's Baptism but no luck I'm afraid.

emma silk

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Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2018, 10:07:29 PM »
I know that headstone. I have read it and walked past it very many times. Thanks for the information I shall pass it on and I'm sure mum will have something to tell me about the harbour master. Thanks for helping me clarify the people on my tree. Lots of the information is the same as mine but I didn't have the dates as I didn't carry on researching in case I was incorrect. I don't think Eleanor married as in the later census she becomes the wife of the John Roberts and her children take on the Roberts name, but I've no still no idea if John was their father or not. Thanks for looking for the baptisms Meleri. I will have to try to go to the registry office and get the certificate and hopefully that may help. Do I need an appointment Meleri? This tree doesn't get any easier considering I live here and my mum has loads of information. I always thought that Roberts was a hard name to trace but Owen/s get everywhere. John Owen/Roberts married Elizabeth Owen, my great grandmother. I wonder if his mother was related to her family.

Meleri

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Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2018, 02:05:22 PM »
You don't need an appointment the clerk at the town hall in Lloyd Street will give you a form to fill in and it cost about £9.25, if you want the certificate sent to you postage is extra. I was lucky one time that the Registrar wasn't busy, so he invited me to look at the original Register of my parents wedding, but that was years ago. Perhaps it would be best to check before you go as I haven't bought a certificate recently, the telephone number is 01492576525. The other way to do it is to buy a PDF copy which is an image of the register not an actual Certificate they cost £6 and you have to apply on-line to The General Register Office (GRO) they usually get to you in 5 working days, these cover Births from 1837 to 1917 & Deaths from 1837 to 1957.
As far your Great Grandparents being possibly related that wasn't unusual for Conwy, I have quite a lot of second cousins marrying on my tree. I agree Roberts & Owen aren't the easiest surnames to research, but as I have found Smith & Jones in Conway are a nightmare   :(

Hugo

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Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2018, 02:43:00 PM »
There was a very pleasant and helpful lady working there called Glenys when I called  in recent years



Bri Roberts

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Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2018, 03:32:16 PM »
Yes, there was Hugo.

She once handed me all her record books and allowed me to browse through them in the other office.

I chose which certificates I wanted and went back to see her in the other room.

I havenít seen Glenys since but I seem to remember somebody once informing me she wasnít too well.


Hugo

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Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2018, 04:03:17 PM »
I'm sorry to hear that Bri, I hope that she's better now.     

Cambrian

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Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2018, 07:20:57 PM »
Glenys is fine and still there. Always very helpful.

Bri Roberts

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Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2018, 10:11:27 PM »
Thank you for the good news, Cambrian.  D)

Hugo

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Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2018, 10:34:22 PM »
Thanks Cambrian,  I'm pleased to hear that.      $good$

Hugo

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Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2018, 06:01:37 PM »
I couldn't find a Baptism record for John Owen b 1860 but did find one for Thomas Owen who was the illegitimate  son of Ellen Owen.  No record was made as to the father of the child.
His Baptism was recorded at No 14 in the Register ans the date looks like 25th December 1857

The was no record in the Marriage Register of a marriage between John Roberts and Ellen Owen

 

Hugo

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Re: John Roberts, Conwy.
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2018, 06:22:55 PM »
In the Register Ellen Owen was a single woman living at Mount Pleasant